Against Guerrero, Mayweather Only Confirms What We Already Knew

BY Frank Lotierzo ON May 06, 2013
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 Guerrero VS Mayweather Floyd Mayweather is arguably the best boxer of his era.However, it's impossible to rate him against other greats from eras before his because he's never beaten another great fighter when they were undefeated or at their peak. Yes, he's conclusively defeated a few undefeated fighters, but they weren't close to being thought of as great boxers. And sure, he's defeated some big names and potential greats the likes of Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto. Again, they were all decisively defeated long before he beat them. Had De La Hoya continued to use his jab he could've beaten Mayweather. Mosley almost put him to sleep with one punch and Cotto was fours years past his best when Mayweather finally faced him.

Sure, Mayweather may have defeated De La Hoya, Mosley and Cotto at their best, that's very plausible, but we just don't know because they clearly were on a severe decline when they faced him and that was on purpose. It's tiresome to continue saying Mayweather has 44 consecutive wins and zero signature fights among them, but that's the simple truth and there's no way around it.

This past weekend Floyd won 11 out of 12 rounds against the very tough and determined former featherweight title holder Robert Guerrero. Prior to the fight it was said in this very space:

"When was the last time Mayweather faced an opponent where it could be said that he is bigger, stronger and faster? In addition to that he's the bigger puncher, harder to hit, more accurate, better defensively, has the higher boxing IQ, is more comfortable at the weight and has much more experience in big fights. And lastly, Floyd has the perfect height, reach and length to pick Robert apart regardless if they're waging war inside or outside."

After watching the first third of the fight it was painfully obvious all of the above were in play. Unfortunately, Robert wasn't big nor strong or skilled enough to get anything going against Mayweather, who was doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted during all but perhaps one round of the 12 the fight went. It was also said prior to the fight in this space:

"For arguments sake, say you are guiding Guerrero and in charge of his fight strategy, what exactly would you hang your hat on and try to exploit on Mayweather? The reality is Robert has not tool one to beat Floyd with other than his grit and the hope that Floyd has aged 10 years since his last fight against Miguel Cotto."

Once again, it didn't take long to observe that Guerrero was in no mans land and was never going to be able to turn the fight in his favor against what turned out to be a very sharp and focused Floyd Mayweather. After the fight ended and Mayweather and Guerrero had spent 36 minutes in the ring fighting, did we learn a single thing, I mean one thing about either Floyd or Robert that we didn't know on May 3rd 2013? No we didn't. In the end Mayweather was dominant and Guerrero was determined and tried all the way to the end but just wasn't good enough. Strategically, there was nothing Robert could've done to change the outcome because Floyd had an answer and counter for anything he did or could've tried. So Robert aggressively threw punches at air and was countered before or after he asserted himself, thus leading to a lopsided unanimous decision defeat.

Mayweather-Guerrero was one of the easiest so-called big fights in recent history to handicap. There was no drama as to the outcome from they very moment it was made official. Mayweather knew he couldn't lose and Guerrero knew he was going to try with everything he had and if all went his way maybe he could score the upset. Mayweather will be paid handsomely for what basically amounted to a 12 round sparring session. He's a great promoter and is beyond reproach at hyping his fights.

If I ask myself what the intrigue is to watching Mayweather's fights, I'm faced with a dilemma.  For starters, despite him being a defensive wizard, it's not like we've never seen better boxers than Mayweather, because we have. We've also seen faster fighters and bigger punchers who are more exciting to watch. Yet he manages every time to promote his fights as something you've never seen and if you don't catch him you'll never see it again, which amounts to an unfunny joke.

Floyd's a seriously good defensive fighter. Few fighters have his understanding of the dimensions of the ring; he knows exactly where he is at any given moment. And he's incredibly comfortable, even in the corners (probably the result of having Floyd Sr. as a father; ducking and dodging would be required education). But he's, at best, a mediocre puncher, and a relatively unsophisticated offensive fighter. Essentially, he takes what opportunities arise, but seldom makes any on his own. That in a nutshell sums Mayweather up. Add to that he's managed his career brilliantly, we'll more than likely never witness him lose and in a few years he'll retire undefeated like Rocky Marciano and Joe Calzaghe.

Think about it, every time he and his career are discussed or written about, it never goes without mention asking who did he really fight when they were at the top or their game that was borderline great and undefeated. Shane Mosley beat De La Hoya more convincingly than Mayweather did seven years earlier. Vernon Forrest beat Mosley more thoroughly than Mayweather did eight years earlier and Manny Pacquiao stopped Cotto three years before Mayweather won a hard fought decision over him.

So what makes Mayweather so great, his management and defensive mastery? Perhaps, but he's not a fighter we'll discuss and talk about once he leaves the stage. At least not in the same reverence we do other past greats who never once have to try and imbed it in our minds how great they were because we say it for them.

The Mayweather-Guerrero fight did nothing to enhance Mayweather's resume nor did it provide us an answer to a single question we have regarding the undefeated best fighter in boxing as to where he ranks among the greatest of the greats. One thing is for sure, his fights are no longer must see, that is if they ever were.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

Comment on this article

deepwater says:

great article. I agree

Carmine Cas says:

Great piece, the same can be said about manny's opponents at welterweight too.

Radam G says:

Super Pugilistic Scribe F-Lo knows how to serve boksing-hardcore sweet science reality and actuality -- no optical illusions or tricks of the trade necessary. He's doesn't try to blind you with bullsyetology and he calls a spade a spade and gives you a lot to think about. And without a lot of emotions and groupie tude, to GRADE!

Ditto Deepwater BIG TIME -- NICE COPY! Holla!

Matthew says:

Agreed. Frank hit the nail on the head. It's too bad that at age 36, Floyd doesn't have a "you're blowing it now, son" moment in his career. I suppose the closest he's come would be getting hurt by Mosley, but after the second round he was never really in danger of losing that fight. He is a sure-fire first ballot hall of famer, but is too risk-averse to be considered an all-time great. I think the only way he can really enhance his legacy at this point is to take on Martinez or one of the other middleweight titlists, although having a catchweight involved would diminish things somewhat. Maybe now that Martinez looks vulnerable, he would consider making that fight. Somehow, I doubt it.

bigstinkybug says:

[COLOR="#B22222">so who's May gunna fight now, Paulie Malinaggi and then we all write articles about how great he is?..bullsht! there's real fighters out there... Guererro, c'mon... the hype made this fight... before all the hype, everyone knew this was a just another fight for May, nothing special... "fight Pac, u pussy... fight Trout.. fight Kieth Thurman... at least humor us in saying u'd fight Canelo"... stop with the setups,...

SouthPaul says:

When I read Frank write about MAyweather ...I think of Cool Hand Luke's relationship with the boss man captain. I hear that speech in my head. Some men you just can't reach. Insert Frank. Floyd just can't please some folk. So you get what we have here today...which is the way Frank wants it...... Which is total PBF greatness never obtainable/reached. It's like the dog at the race track never being able to catch the motorized rabbit.

If you aren't familiar with the movie, check it out... a must see. All time classic.

amayseng says:

Fantastic article.


It's ashame. Floyd has a lot more to offer but always sells himself short.

Not only in the ring where he ran and evaded the ghost sat

but also with his pick of competition.


I agree he needs to take on the young hard punching Canelo

and then go for a legit title at mw with NO catch weight.

Floyd could come in at 152 and just use his speed and agility.

Radam G says:

One thing, though! Nobody told Sugar Ray Robinson who or when to fight. How soon do we forget, Money May is the Sugar Ray of our times. And, as the Sugarman did, so will Money May goes down as an ATG! Holla!

SouthPaul says:

Agreed, Radam, Frank is crazier than a crap house rat if he thinks MAyweather won't be talked about when he's gone. Hell, I envision Frank at 90 ...boxing senile as all heck.... Talking to himself about Floyd. Lmfao.

SouthPaul says:

But make no mistake about it.... Floyd needs to fight Canelo! It's the biggest event to be made, it's a true legit challenge. The red head has the fire power and energy to seriously press PBF. He'll take him the brink.

If it happens, it'll likely be next Cinco de mayo.

Carmine Cas says:

Mayweather's legs looked great, it's a high risk-reward scenario with the Canelo in September. The PPV buys could break the DLH record, Floyd has a young hungry eager lion with a questionable gas tank. I can see him out-boxing and foxing the red headed mexican, but danger still looms. Mayweather wants can to win his couple fights so he can hype up the glass jawed brit for a huge payday. I wonder who he fights next, I disagree with him being the modern day SRL. Robinson took risks, not just calculated minimal risks like Floyd

amayseng says:

Canelo presents the most risk but he is lacking in stamina.

Floyd by easy UD with a few moments of Canelo landing left body hooks.

But the longer Floyd waits the more of a chance he takes to loose the bounce in his step.

His legs and foot work looked off in rounds 1 and 2 this sat



He needs the Canelo fight next and early.

ali says:

Why is it always Floyd fault when a fight isn't made? When Mayweather was at 130 Mosley was at 135 and by the time Mayweather grew into 135 Mosley jumped up 2 weight classes. By time they was in the same weight class Mayweather called out Mosley a few times I never heard Shane call out him.
ODH was fighting at 147 when he was in his prime and Mayweather was fighting at 130 so how in the fu©k could he fight ODH in his prime? He fought Corrales in his prime and dominated a young kills. He shutout a Marquez after a 2 year layoff the same guy the just knocked out the great Pac. If he fights Canleo and wins I bet y'all will still have something negative to say I put that on everythang.

Radam G says:

He he he! That was cold, SouthPaul! Holla!

Matthew says:

Let's face it. Both Mayweather and Pacquiao are to blame for that fight not taking place. If either of them wanted it badly enough, they would have gone to their respective promoters and said "I don't care, just make the fight." Neither of them did that. While not every good fight can be made, Floyd should shoulder much of the blame for the fights he left on the table, particularly the ones that could have been made at 135, 140, and 147. If Mayweather really wants to cement a legacy, he should take on Martinez or one of the other middleweight titlists (highly unlikely). At the very least, he should fight Alvarez. The sooner that fight happens, the better it is for Mayweather.

amayseng says:

Matthew this is what happens when a fighter like Floyd ignores a challenge and waits.

He would not get credit now for fighting SM.

Last year I called Martinez to best Floyd at 154.

Now sm has been injured in his last 2 fights and now looking old

and worn down.

So f Floyd now decided to fight him he would not get credit.


He should fight Canelo, which he will beat fairly easily.

No one else is ppv worthy.

The ghost fight was a template on how he will have to run/fight Canelo

using his legs to stay away from canelos power.

Floyd shouldn't take a chance of waiting a year for this challenge.

I have a feeling he will take a year off after hurting his hand.

Matthew says:

I would still give Mayweather credit for beating Martinez, just not as much as if it were a year ago, and not as much if there were a catchweight involved. Other than Martinez, Quillin, or Golovkin, nobody else can enhance Mayweather's legacy beyond its current standing. Even a victory over Pacquiao (in a fight that is well beyond its expiration date) would do little to enhance Mayweather's legacy at this point. The Alvarez fight is intriguing, however. If they fight in September, I would still favor Mayweather. If the fight happens next year, I like Alvarez's chances more and more.

Radam G says:

Until Lil' Floyd is 50 years old, I favor him to kick the redheaded hype's arse any day of the week and seven times on Sunday. Holla!

deepwater says:

Until Lil' Floyd is 50 years old, I favor him to kick the redheaded hype's arse any day of the week and seven times on Sunday. Holla!


yup the red head step child used open scoring to stink out the place in the last few rounds. all time greats close the show, not coast to a win. mexicans want a champ they can be proud of and red head aint it

amayseng says:

Deep and Radam are correct.


But Floyd needs to take the Canelo fight next

whoop him and get that monkey off his back so he

can move on and up to mw and grab a belt.

leon30001 says:

Impossible to argue with a single word of that. All things considered I'd say Corrales remains Floyd's most significant win; he was favoured in that fight but not as heavily as in every single one subsequently...unless I'm forgetting something somewhere along the line! And he absolutely annihiliated him of course.

deepwater says:

Deep and Radam are correct.


But Floyd needs to take the Canelo fight next

whoop him and get that monkey off his back so he

can move on and up to mw and grab a belt.


I agree. do it now floyd! it will help his legacy if he fights canelo now at his so called prime.

jzzy says:

Frank gets it right. More of a reason (besides money) why Floyd needs to fight Canelo before long. Who else out there is a credible threat for him??

JMSIGALA says:

Canelo is not ready For Mayweather. Mayweather will win another easy 12 rounds.
The kid is only 22, i would'nt say his at his prime or best yet. This article is dead on though! Mayweather Came at the perfect time, Good fighters were old. I personally think Mayweather would have beaten Pacman but that does'nt change that he still avoided Pacman. Thats what he does.

SouthPawFlo says:

I think its a great article, but i disagree with a few points....



I think people will definitely talk about May long after he is gone.. His Boxing wizardry can't be denied.

I think the Corrales KO, the De La Hoya Win, the Gatti Destruction, the Hatton Demolition, fighting through a near KO vs Mosley are more than enough "signature" moments in an illustrious career.

When people say that Mayweather didn't fight a WelterWeight at their peak, I wonder when was Money May supposedly at his peak???

Hatton was Undefeated
Guerrero was coming off a big win, so was Ortiz, he beat Marquez after almost a 2 year layoff, Judah was on the P4P list, Mosley had just slaughtered Margarito and Oscar was the biggest star in the sport..



I think Mayweather is too good for his own good, unless hes KO'ing guys every fight or getting in Micky Ward/Gatti Wars, people wont be satisfied ...

amayseng says:

Mosley just slaughtered Margo 18 months earlier and was 38.

Judah lost to baldimir.


Listen I think Floyd is #1lb4lb.

But he dd in fact either avoid some fighters

or not make an effort to fight them.

amayseng says:

Also de la Hoya was old.

And Gatti was way damaged thro wars and wars.



Come on now.

U can't come in here like that.

Carmine Cas says:

What about Kosta Tszu? Eh

deepwater says:

Also de la Hoya was old.

And Gatti was way damaged thro wars and wars.



Come on now.

U can't come in here like that.


gatti was damaged and already drinking way way too much. hatton was already doing blow before the floyd fight. floyd gets a mention but it will be also who he didnt fight.(pacman)

amayseng says:

I do give him credit for beating hatton tho.

The Good Doctor says:

I think its a great article, but i disagree with a few points....



I think people will definitely talk about May long after he is gone.. His Boxing wizardry can't be denied.

I think the Corrales KO, the De La Hoya Win, the Gatti Destruction, the Hatton Demolition, fighting through a near KO vs Mosley are more than enough "signature" moments in an illustrious career.

When people say that Mayweather didn't fight a WelterWeight at their peak, I wonder when was Money May supposedly at his peak???

Hatton was Undefeated
Guerrero was coming off a big win, so was Ortiz, he beat Marquez after almost a 2 year layoff, Judah was on the P4P list, Mosley had just slaughtered Margarito and Oscar was the biggest star in the sport..


I think Mayweather is too good for his own good, unless hes KO'ing guys every fight or getting in Micky Ward/Gatti Wars, people wont be satisfied ...


I believe that I becoming the king of this argument. Rather than post all of the info again, I will just repost what I have been saying. This post is from February:


Very true my friend but you are using emotion in an argument where logic triumphs. Sure everybody wanted them to fight but that does not make it a great, even, or good fight. Shane was not the same at 38 as he was at 32 when he and Floyd were both at the same weight class and Shane was in his prime while Floyd was in the beginning of his if not already in it. Rather than fight a 32 year old sharp Mosely he fought a 38 year old okay Mosley. Also that Margarito fight was a year and a half before they fought. In addition, I can tell from your posts you are a smart guy, I must ask you how often is the boxing public at large right? Not often. People that were true fight fans felt like that fight was going to turn out the way it did. Even Shane's own trainer said it. Naseem's quote was of the nature of this:

"You are going to hit Floyd and hit him hard. But it will be like stepping on the tail of dragon. Once you do it, you are really going to have to fight because he will bring the fire once you touch him

Now since you say there are always excuses, I have to ask how do you defend Floyd's fight record between mid 2001 and 2010. Look at who he fought:

Sosa
Bruseles
Chop Chop
Zab
Baldomir
Ndou
Mithcell
Hernandez
Jesus Chavez
Gatti
Hatton
ODH after Shane twice, Hop, Trinidad and Sturm, all of which were hard to brutal
JMM, coming up 2 weight classes and didn't make weight for the fight

versus who was available and better than almost anyone listed above

Tszyu, Barrera, Pac, Prime Cotto, Prime Margarito, Prime Mosely, Casamayor, Prime Vernon Forrest, Clottey, Prime Williams, Cintron, Morales@Featherweight.

In addition, look who is available now: Martinez @ 154 (said he would come down to 147), Saul @ 154, Trout @ 154, and he's choosing Alexander?

Look, I get it. The 0 in the right hand column does mean something. Floyd is about money first, legacy second. Floyd likes his millions to come easy and I would do the exact same thing. However, before the Floyd backers say that the detractors do not have an argument just look at the facts. I guess the thing is that out of all the people listed above, I do not think a single one could have beaten him. Unfortunately, because Floyd has chosen the easy (but more profitable and better for your long term health) road, I will never know. The other thing that is a little disappointing about Floyd is that all of the above takes place not long after he DESTROYED Chico(And I mean DESTROYED). Floyd looked like a guy on the brink of being an all timer in not just boxing but sports.

Also as a quick disclaimer, I am not a Floyd lover or hater. For the record I am a Cotto guy and have been since he was an amateur. I have always and will continually say Floyd is a top 5 defensive fighter ever, a top 3 talent possibly ever, but he lacked something that made him want to challenge himself.

ali says:

Mayweather will never get his just due.

amayseng says:

And the good doctor explains why Ali.

SouthPawFlo says:

Listen I like a great boxing Debate, and you can't count Floyd's Match making when he was with Top Rank..


Since 2006, he's fought, Judah, Baldomir, DLH, Hatton, Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz, Guerrero, Cotto...


These Guys are all champions and some future Hall of Famers....


Just because the Manny fight wasn't made, you can't just say Floyd has fought a bunch of Nobodies...


What belt did Josh Clottey have when PAC Man fought him???

ultimoshogun says:

Speaking of Clottey, did he retire or did his pathetic performance vs Manny buy him a one way ticket to irrelevancy?

Radam G says:

Wow! This is why I have mad luv for this game. Everybodeee and dey momma can throw some flame. But great P4P are all da bloody same. When it comes to fighting the fan-favorite best, all da greats are lame.

Name me one P4P, who cherry picked and ducked not. That is what I thought. They all have. Money May is just a follower of tradition and truth.

He is an ATG, and go down as such. Holla!

ali says:

i agree. Do it now floyd! It will help his legacy if he fights canelo now at his so called prime.



no it will not!!!!!!!!

ali says:

They are still going to say he didn't fight Pac, Martinez then if he beat them there going to say he needs to fight GGG to get the monkey off his back.

ali says:

And then after that he needs to move up to 168 and fight Ward the bullshit!t will never stop.

Radam G says:

C'mon, SCLA Ali! Money May would sweat out and have a heatstroke against SOG Ward, like Sugar Ray Robinson did against Joey Maxim.
Money May is straight. And can never make all the people happy all the time. Some will always say he is great, and a lot will say that he is slime. And that is the way the ball bounces. Holla!

Radam G says:

C'mon, SCLA Ali! Money May would sweat out and have a heatstroke against SOG Ward, like Sugar Ray Robinson did against Joey Maxim.
Money May is straight. And can never make all the people happy all the time. Some will always say he is great, and a lot will say that he is slime. And that is the way the ball bounces. Holla!

amayseng says:

Ali about to have a meltdown.



Hahaha.

It's all good ali.

Floyd is a phenom.

But.

He has some questionable actions.


And non actions.

The Good Doctor says:

Listen I like a great boxing Debate, and you can't count Floyd's Match making when he was with Top Rank..


Since 2006, he's fought, Judah, Baldomir, DLH, Hatton, Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz, Guerrero, Cotto...


These Guys are all champions and some future Hall of Famers....


Just because the Manny fight wasn't made, you can't just say Floyd has fought a bunch of Nobodies...


What belt did Josh Clottey have when PAC Man fought him???


True some are HOF's. True some were champions. However, I dare you to say that any of those guys were great or near their best when they fought Floyd. They are big names but big time sharp fighters they were not. Although I give him some credit for the Cotto fight, nobody expected that good of a performance out of a war torn Cotto nor that bad a performance out of Floyd. Even now, he could have fought Trout, Canelo, Sergio, a still formidable Pac, and he at first tried to give us Alexander and then went to Guerrero. Sorry man, that does not cut it. I know that all greats have some misses i.e. Ray Leonard should have fought the Hawk but Floyd just has too, too many.

Radam G says:

C'mon, TGD! Sugar Ray Robinson had the most misses. Just as Money May, he refused to box fighters who couldn't draw a crowd to bring in the BIG bucks and had a great chance of kicking his arse. And it is prizefighting. In the whole of his more than 24-year career, SRR ducked about 24 A and super A fighters/contenders. Money May can never outduck the Sugarman. Holla!

ali says:

I guess Marvin Halger ducked Mike McCallum and sweet pea ducked Terry Norris and ODH ducked Winky Wright ect

Radam G says:

Hey South Central LA dude, no sarcasm needed. It is all about business. There was no d@mn interest in those fights that you mentioned. It is prizefighting, not fighing every ¢ock and bytch around. There has to be some intrigue. Beside the "Body Snatcher" McCallum was a light-middle when the Marvelous One was around. And Terry Norris was already damaged goods when Winky peaked to get on da stinky.

LEARN, my brotha! LEARN! Holla!

ali says:

Radam Mike McCallum said it himself that he talk to Marvin Halger a few times about fighting him. Mike said that was his big money fight and the marvelous one did give him that pay day its on YouTube brah. Another thing I said SWEET PEA ducked Terry Norris and ODH aka Oscar De Hoya ducked Winky Wright I ain't that slow fam. But I do agree with u so if a fighter picks money over opposition is that considered a duck?

Radam G says:

I'm with you, SCLA Ali! And I know dat ya' ain't slow mo, bro! I'm just saying ducking is da bomb for many of greats. And it is more about money -- seen and unseen. That is the business of da hurt bitnezz. Holla!

ali says:

I feel u on that radam

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