PED Scrap Almost Renders Donaire-Rigo Presser DOA

USADA and its crusader Tygart is very corrupted. It will just approve certain types of PEDs for the show to go on. It is so adjustable for Money May and his fighters.

One of his fighter -- Mickey Bey -- just got popped with a testosterone level of 30 plus. The up-to six level -- Sin City allowable amount -- was jecked up from 4 when Money May was dirty as a dog in a previous bout.

I wouldn't be surprised if USADA raised the level to eight or 10. The Big Worm -- I meant the Big Apple -- corrupted boxing commission will just go alone with it.

BTW, I bet Bey's ridicuous high-cheat testosterone level mysteriously make like an atom and split.

Rigo is luvin' USADA because VADA does not allow masking syet. USADA is fullof syet because masking jive is a part of its game to be slacks and lame. Holla!

USADA's handling of Morales (V Garcia) and was simply appalling IMO. For Morales (& GB), after Morales tested positive, USADA simply just kept testing and testing even after Morales tested positive for his A and B samples. They did it in such a way where - if you wanted to generate/find a negative sample weeks later, confuse its test date with the initial samples, and provide it to the promoter; in order to arm them with ambiguity and a reason to keep using your services - there would be no better way I could think of. And thats aside from their interesting communication principles; which hold communicating to promoters and releasing curious statements to the press that serve them (promoters), prior to the delayed but inescapable announcements of positive results. Then there is their management of Berto's positive results and his refusal to go ahead with VADA testing (as Guerrero requested for the Guerrero V Berto fight); which basically amounted to Berto (& GB) saying I don't want anyone testing me that has already tested me positive.

There's a reason competitors love and dislike VADA, and that's because Dr. Margaret Goodman runs the show and not only they do thorough testing, they also are not pushed around by big business. The positive result is contained in a report and provided to the necessary people, but in such a way where there are no built in "stubs" by which the client can create ambiguity.

Sorry Dino, you're wrong on this. I am "Steve" (not Radam) and whilst I haven't posted for a while (18 months or so), I am a TSS long termer and have previously posted (before the aforementioned break) for several years.

Check the archives throughout the Margarito "plastergate" and also Kostya Tszu and DLA's reigns, and look for "Steve". Dave B will vouch for my previous posts. The reason my posts are insightful (thanks for the complement) are down to more than 80 boxing matches and more than 30 years in or associated with the sport.

I live in Australia, but used to live in California.

Update on Donaire, his opponent, USADA & VADA: The results from the VADA testing (and USADA testing - if Donaire's opponent opts to exercise the right to have USADA test as well as VADA {which IMO would only serve as a mechanism to cloud a positive VADA result IMO}) will be - if required - handled by NYSAC.

Well, that will make all the happenings really clear won't it. I can just see the promotor of a positive boxer saying "well we have positive tests from VADA and negative tests from USADA and what this tells us is that we need to look into how we test more and not judge quickly". Which is promotor speak for "lets rid the sport from any lab/outfit that we cant influence, particularly those can accurately test/detect PEDs".

Remember, (aside from USADA operating as I and RadamG have previously stated) state athletic commissions are almost always bound, in terms of confidentiality at least, not to release information that can damage a person/organisation. As are many labs. The fact that USADA hold the promotor's interests far higher than any organisation charged with the responsibility to rid the sport of PEDs really should; also means USAD will, like some state athletic commissions, rarely do what the public rightly expects when a boxer contracted to a powerful promotor tests positive - the Morales/GB fiasco is proof of that.

What this means is that you can bet that with USADA and other commissions (whom don't represent PED testing at anywhere near the same level and accuracy as VADA) involved in the aforementioned Donaire fight; the likelihood that the only thing/info that will be released from these non-VADA outfits (if someone tests positive) is media releases that are helpful to promotors and/or ambiguous, and/or factiod releases and opinions that oppose VADA's; increases exponentially.

Why else would you need USADA and another, easily influenced body (NY state athletic commissions), to hold all PED test results; when VADA tests are the best and most detailed you can get? Why not just, if you doubt the VADA results, seek a 2nd medical opinion on the VADA results? Rather than introducing another testing regime whose scope and accuracy is already as questionable as it is unannounced?

Now, introducing and using USADA and the NYSAC like this, after VADA tests, and without openly declaring up front what deficiencies VADA allegedly have to warrant it (particularly considering VADA have justifiably {with conclusive/undisputed proof} returned positive tests on fighters where USADA have tested the same guy and returned a negative); is, IMO, way more suspicious than wanting USADA to test alone - which is already very suspicious.

Not in the least as several USA state based athletic commissions have been known to (for no stated scientific reason) ignore positive results from VADA tests (without so much as even bothering to state what deficiencies the VADA tests/results have); in a manner that appeases and benefits boxing promotors. One example is A Berto fight with GB where, much to GB's approval, the CSAC simply ignored VADAs accurate/un-scientifically disputed positive results - simply on the basis that they weren't yielded from their own CSAC tests - which would have been impossible at the time (for the CSAC) - as they were only involved in subsequent promotions in relation to the matter at hand.

Of course this was all after the promotor became involved and was severely disgruntled by VADA results and how they didn't, rightly, but also unlike USADA, give enough time to promotors to kick a "damage control, ambiguity, and media-containment' policy into action; after someone tested positive.

Gotta love how the CSAC worked in the above example. Nice way of wiping the slate clean that . . "Oh, we didn't perform these tests. so even though we can't scientifically debunk them (and aren't trying to), we will ignore them for our client's sake . . whoops I mean our friend-promoter's sake. Whoops I mean for the sport. Oh it doesn't matter. Hey, look now they don't exist anymore and the show goes on.

Bye bye VADA and your accurate and exposing tests". Andrew you can now fight, and you know our commitment to cleaning the sport up; forget it.

So know all one (influential promoter) need do if their fighter tests positive is . . . to get another lab to run (conflicting) tests of an unknown scope, pay the lab well, (deduct the lab's fees from the fighter's purse??), release the lab results of choice, feel comfortable that the confidentiality agreement between promotor/lab works well with respect to what is not released publicly, and of course, get a commission to debunk the VADA tests on the basis that those tests weren't performed by the commission - as they overlook that the (limited) USADA tests (that suit the promotor) also were not performed by the commission.

Now the sport is really cleaned up and it's all really clear isn't it.

And with that storm, roids and PEDs are not moving outta da game. Dat _____ ________ gives eye candy bodies that bring the freaks with their money a running. They get all aroused. And put out those duckies and thinking about that F word that rhymes with duckie-duckie. And when a freaky dreaky is in that state of heat, he or she will want a treat, and boxing wins. Because adroitedly whuppin' arse is just in the human psyche as being sexy.

And in the freaky dreaky psyche of the human animal are thoughts of mad sex with big instruments. And gals and girls want the biggest ones. Hehehehe! Ectomorph bodies are not thought of in the brains of the nowadays freaky fans and fanfaronades as the sight to arouse, so the powers that be have thrown them outta da house. Sex sells. Boxing has always been the sex thinking-about sports. That is why we get it on half naked. It has never been just about skills to pay the bills. It is also sexual suggestions to excite. And then you know those fans are gonna get on their freak all nite. Hahaha!

C'mon! Y'all know Radam G! I'm down with O-P-P! And I always call a spade a spade. After the related events, how much do you think adjacent hotels and motels made? Thinks about it! And look at the subliminal sexual suggestions:

Hotel = ho's tail/@$$! Hehehe! Motel = Mo' tail/@$$! Hahaha!

Threatre of the unexpected, BABEEEE! You never know what to expect from boxing or Radam G. It's all about being down with O-P-P! Hehehe! Holla!

Something tells me you're a bit of a wild man from Borneo Radam. And that's cool. After all what would boxing be if there were none of that?

But seriously, and to your leading comments; again, you're 100% correct, IMHO. As the riods, juice, super-power, or whatever they're called will be hanging around for quite a while yet. Particularly whilst those that say they're serious about ridding the sport of them, don’t walk the walk and give preference to simply talking the talk.

Until then clean boxers that are unable to;

A) Get their opponents' promoters to follow through on their PED promises.

B) Get their opponents to take the (real) tests.

C) Ensure that their boxing opponents that have tested positive will not share the ring with them, at least whilst banned substances are in their body and providing assistance.

D) Experience theirs or other promoters postponing fights, suspending boxers, and/or take the appropriate action; when their boxing opponents actually have tested positive.

E) Experience athletic commissions and other related organizations and persons (particularly those whom are charged with the responsibility, generate money from, and have released public claims that allude to them using their powers to clean the sport up from PED use and make it safe) act;

i) Without inconsistency. (ie; play be the rules here and/or overlook something here; but not there and/or where no monetary or other influence exists).
ii) Within theirs and other relevant guidelines.
iii) Openly explain controversial decisions.
iv) In a manner that shuns influence from promoters and others.
v) In a manner that responds appropriately to positive tests.
vi) In a manner that that overturns or effectively ignores positive tests only when such action can be substantiated as both necessary and scientifically justified.
vii) In a manner that places integrity before income, and safety before show.

F) Access and meaningfully use the results of VADA style PED testing.

But have requested VADA style testing, suspect their opponents may be using/"cycling" and/or just want to be assure they're not and that everyone is competing safely - as it appears Donaire, Guerrero and several others mentioned in this post/thread clearly wanted to - are faced with a few interesting considerations that are as complex as the PED issue itself.

However, in my opinion they're not so complex that it justifies what is, conveniently, happening in the sport.

Those considerations, for the clean fighter requesting VADA testing and experiencing the above-mentioned list “A” – “F”, are, briefly, as follows.

They're faced with;

A*) The knowledge, that as a result of them reasonably expecting the promoter (and their fighters) will agree to VADA testing and follow through on their well publicized PED and other related promises (ahem, advertisements that at the time seemed to allude to ensuring no fighter on their promotion is unknowingly put at risk through PED use); that they have now inadvertently exposed and made enemies with those capable of changing their career and therefore also their families' welfare.

Also, there’s the consideration that should they lose the fight - something they have just found out has a far greater likelihood without VADA's involvement and (perhaps more importantly) the promoter's sincerity - then in that case, even if they are not dirt-balled, they will most likely not be considered for future promotions and/or as such a marketable item. Not in the least as the loss provides the promoter with the perfect reason for disregarding the clean athlete in the future.

Remember, not everyone can call shots, particularly with respect to PED’s, like Floyd. Regardless of whether, as some claim, he has used them or not.

Or . . .

B) The choice to . . . . . "even up the playing field" and "use". Often, when placed in this tempting position, this is a popular choice for the clean boxer interested in advantages but afraid of penalties. As he can now use confident in the knowledge that no-one will be (meaningfully) testing for the same substances that - when in the bloodstream/body of the competitor whom appreciates distance between himself and VADA - increase the chances that the clean boxer will not only lose, but for the above-mentioned reasons also potentially fade into oblivion after the fight; secure in the knowledge that the best chance his career may very well get from now on (after inadvertently exposing a promoter’s unsubstantiated dislike for VADA testing) genuinely could make Ishe Smith's experiences over the last 10 years and/or working as a sparring partner for the rest of your life; look pleasant.

However, “evening up the playing field” like this, amongst the many other drawbacks - and even if it just once; then also potentially deprives the (previously) clean fighter of any chance he can ever seriously and credibly call into question a loss (regardless of how devastating/controversial it may be) he may experience from the hands of any PED assisted conqueror. I know this post is long, but things really are this complicated for fighters in these positions.

You see, for the most part, if the fight goes ahead after one guy has tested positive and it lasts for 12 rounds and they're all intense rounds; someone will, perhaps rightly, suspect or know that the fighter whom wanted stringent VADA test results somehow still managed to keep up with someone with an abnormal level of testosterone and or EPO in their body. That’s like calling Lance Armstrong a cheat, failing to have his test results acknowledged; but still staying on his *** for the whole day’s ride.

He will know what you're doing and you will have no way of claiming it was a once off, only to level up the playing field and because he and his promoter refused to acknowledge the positive tests. The other option is you don’t even up the playing field, you lose, and then you leave the ring as a loser whom exposed a powerful promoter that has significant influence over your career.

One need only look at Shane Mosley's responses to Margarito (even though that wasn't a loss for Mosley) and also his official response to the Pacquiao beat-down (Shane was reported to have claimed he believed Pacquiao was assisted); to see how his admitted Balco involvement and the risk of seeming like a hypocrite seemingly prevented him from discussing, at least, Margarito's gloves as openly as most would.


And let's face it, even if you don’t even up the playing field, it's not like any of the above considerations, particularly those within point A*, provides the best and most comforting way to confidently walk up into the ring, remain relaxed, and then when the bell rings, exhibit clever moves, calculated explosiveness and flexibility; so that you can execute the game plan, hook of the jab, and remain balanced and defensive whilst you time perfectly and send in beautiful right cross counters over the "assisted" boxer's jab - all whilst not getting hit yourself.

It’s almost as if as soon as PED’s are present nothing is the same anymore.

These considerations, as hinted at and stated in my above posts, are remarkably similar considerations you would think to those that;

1) Poor Robert Guerrero must have faced prior to fighting Andre Berto (AB), when he became aware that AB had tested positive but that as a result of that both GB and AB now, without offering any meaningful justification, expressed disinterest in both VADA and accepting their positive test results; which then triggered a process by which GB set about discrediting VADA, preventing them from being used when Robert later requested, and circumventing their positive and scientifically uncontested result. What’s more alarming is that it seems GB did this simply because;

a) Berto had banned substances in his body; as he agreed not to.
b) VADA tested Berto positive. (As Berto agreed to and as VADA were hired to do).
c) VADA didn't prioritize GB's curious interests which, one can only assume, would have allowed a chain of cloudy circumstances to follow the 1st positive test that were similar to how GB responded to the positive tests Morales resulted with when tested by VADA. (However, VADA weren’t hired to facilitate GB with lead-time to kick in damage control policies that respond to positive tests and are intended to preserve financial interests more than boxer’s safety).
d) Vada didn't let GB know about the positive test with enough time to put together a "suitable public announcement" and/or containment policy. (As VADA were hired to do. Furthermore, notifying anyone that is not a signatory to the PED testing service agreement would be an act with serious liabilities. It's also interesting to note that out of all the signatories to the VADA agreement pertaining to AB, of whom all were notified; none notified GB of the positive result. This means that not only were VADA’s actions with respect to how they managed communication of AB’s positive PED test legally appropriate and also strongly aligned with that which all other signatories did; but that GB may have been expecting VADA to manage communication in a manner that placed their interests not only above safety, but also those of all whom were signatories to the testing agreement AB requested and returned positive from. Furthermore, had VADA notified a non-signatory about the "A" test results, then that could be legally construed as reputation damage; as the "B" test may have not been taken at that stage. It’s not difficult to imagine what a disgruntled promoter may do in that situation, particularly after their own lawyers advised of the VADA vulnerability and positive test related to one of their fighters).
e) VADA operated as a truly independent PED/drug testing laboratory whose sole objective was to objectively and stringently test for a set of banned substances that not only constituted a static scope (meaning they don’t change if a positive result is unpopular and/or derived from a test that the client or someone else influential “forgot” to state was out of scope) but were also substances that were explicitly detailed and provided beforehand as well as within the report that conclusively substantiated Berto (and Morales) had banned and PED substances in their body. It was this report that the CSAC simply deemed irrelevant so that Berto could get licensed and fight Guerrero on a GB promotion.

Which, incredibly and (IMO) with tremendous hypocritically, then led to GB employing the CSAC's neat licensing trick that I mentioned in my above posts.

Where together, both GB and the CSAC, all simply kicked VADA (and boxing) in the guts and implicitly/publicly discredited them without providing any real scientific reasons for disagreeing with the results; all whilst at the same time they also circumvented the real purpose and outcome of positive VADA test – which was to ensure boxer's don't endanger theirs or other's health, safety and lives by competing with banned substances that may also provide unfair performance advantages.

That the CSAC played along with this is perhaps even more remarkable and tragic. The fact that VADA is run by Dr. Goodman, that she has an excellent reputation and that all the tests were objective, transparent and strongly substantiated; unfortunately didn’t influence the CSAC to explain how the VADA tests were null and not a correct representation of AB’s body.

Sadly, none of this mattered, as VADA were not even called and asked to explain the testing discrepancies that you would reasonably assume GB and the CSAC surely must have had - in order to justify the outrageous act of completely ignoring Berto’s positive results and placing Guerrero - whom had recently experienced his wife suffering from cancer - in the incredible position he found himself in; where PED tests that he had requested and paid for, in order to guarantee his safety and a level playing field; were rendered as nothing more than an insignificant financial liability regardless of what they said about his competitor.

Because whilst the above failed to influence the CSAC to uphold the VADA tests and/or explain how they warranted being ignored; GB and their promotion were successful in influencing the CSAC to the extent that it mattered not what the tests said about anyone’s safety. At that stage the GB promotion had priority over everything else; including Guerrero and Berto’s safety, and although I have searched I can’t find a CSAC guideline that explicitly permits this kind of conduct.

In any regard, together, this kind of avarice and activity - where the promoters of those athletes whom test positive for banned substances simply ignore unpopular results and instead utilize the "services" of other sporting/athletic commissions and drug testing laboratories with questionable principles - to assist with discrediting valid PED tests and those whom execute them without proving any scientific explanation at all - just so promotions can continue and revenue can be generated from them; provides a layer of extremely concerning business processes.

And that’s on top of what, itself, has already been the source of endless boxing writer's articles for as long as I can remember; the behavior (even that not associated with PED use and the claim to be stringently testing) of boxing sanctions.

No doubt to GB's great pleasure as much as it stands testament to how easily money influences even those charged with the enormous and serious responsibility to safeguard competitor’s cognitive functions; predictably then as a result of the above mess, the result was that by the CSAC laughably stating that the VADA tests weren't performed by them in the context as if that was all that’s required to license a boxer whom had tested positive (without providing any scientific explanation at all or any reference to their own policies and guidelines that permitted disregarding both positive PED tests and, perhaps more importantly, the welfare of boxers in such a way), both GB and the CSAC;

a) Not only effectively sidestepped VADA's accurate testing/results.
b) Made a mockery of cleaning up PED use in boxing.
c) Endangered Guerrero and Berto’s health.
d) And provided (rewarded?) Berto with impunity and a money-fight; in return for him testing positive.

But, both GB and the CSAC also effectively (and almost, it seems, without a conscience) rendered a positive testing Berto; clean, safe and licensed. Despite him having just returned a positive from a PED test by those whom he personally and professionally hired to test for PED use.

Think about that and GB’s original mission statement when they first started. It was something like; “just like Metro Golden Mayer for actors, so too is Golden Boy for boxers. We’re a boxing promotional organization run by boxers with boxers interests at heart”.

And think about it also, because in my opinion if we, as boxing fans and competitors are not moved by what is happening here; then we may as well applaud Margarito for his loaded-glove actions.

Mark my words on this; someone will get seriously hurt from this, and it’s not like the sport is full of genius promoters that don’t place their, already fat wallets, ahead of a fighter’s safety and interests. And if I remember correctly, it was that consideration that drove Oscar away from Top Rank. He felt Bob didn’t have all his interests at heart.

2) Garcia probably faced prior to Garcia V2 Morales; when he too became aware that USADA was frantically testing Morales, perhaps also for GB’s promotional benefit, in search of a negative result that could dilute the realization that he had tested positive on a GB promotion.

It is perhaps also worthwhile considering the outcome of that fight and whether Morales inability to "cycle" properly (that is before the Garcia fight but also after he knew he had tested positive in the lead up, but was now being repeatedly tested and tested {as per my above posts} for various concerning reasons) actually endangered (not just Garcia’s but) his health and ability to perform.

Who knows what happens to boxers that have prepared and trained for a big, or any, fight - where they have trained hard in camp and developed a strategy there, in a manner that is solidly underpinned by endless supplies of artificial energy; when that supply is – just weeks before the fight – suddenly taken away - faster than any fighter could naturally lose their fitness even if they were sitting in a pub swimming in Budweiser.

One thing is for sure, if you want a slight insight to what happens in those or similar circumstances; take a look at all the boxers that were deemed to be associated with Balco. Remember (I wont mention their names) several of them had, prior to the Balco scandal becoming public, exceptionally freaky skills, stamina and reflexes. Some were also P4P greats. However, after the Balco scandal, many of those (even those that were P4P-ers) simply and quickly entered a period of their career where not only were their reflexes severely normalized, the air of invincibility gone without so much as leaving a forwarding address, and entirely new fight-game plans and strategies frantically and obviously put into place to compensate; but losses regularly appeared on their records.

It’s hard to think that that is not what happened, to some extent, to;

1) Morales when he faced Garcia after Morales tested positive.
2) Berto when he faced Guerrero after Berto tested positive.


And, finally, another thing that is pretty dependable that results from all this; is that with the, promoter’s, athletic commission’s, fighter’s and many other involved persons' (and the above mentioned identities are not the only ones involved) above-mentioned curious behavior and attitudes towards - not only PEDs in boxing and how to meaningfully test for them and clean up the sport - but also how to appropriately respond to positive tests . . .. .

PED use will not only continue and possibly increase in boxing - but in some cases PED use will actually be (whether intended or not) promoted by athletic commissions, promoters, fighters and the above-mentioned actions.

Particularly in those instances where;

1) Clean boxers must (despite what rules, guidelines, the law, doctors and common sense state) face fighters that they know they shouldn't have to and/or those fighters that have tested positive to PED use; if they are to progress their careers, and earn a living.

2) Clean boxers know those charged with the responsibility and authority to ensure;

a) The playing field is level.
b) PED’s are not used by competing boxers.
c) Boxing is safe and transparent.

Do not really care if their opponent has an unfair/dangerous advantage and/or if they do too.

3) Clean boxers know and are reminded that the promotion is actually more important than their health, safety and fairness.

4) Clean boxers know and are reminded how the promotion and both its continuity and progress can be used to cover up positive tests and perceptibly translate into the public wrongly believing no-one tested positive. Due to the flawed but widespread assumption (itself derived from that which those charged with the responsibility and authority to ensure PED testing is meaningfully done; have publicly stated) that the fight would be too dangerous to continue and therefore would not continue, if a boxer tested positive for a banned substance.

Wow!! that was an astonishing amount of detail Stormcentre,.. absolutely no need to add or take away from that post.

I can understand Donaires concern about the Hereda connection, and the counter concern from the Rigondeaux camp regarding Conte.

Donaire has gone much farther with this issue than is his norm which makes me think that he truly is concerned about the level of opposition.

didn't say he was afraid,.. but concerned.... yes.

But for now Arum has degreed that the fight will go on.
I think it'll be one of the most interesting fights of the year.
If Rigondeaux can survive the first 4 rounds,... and he is able to time the hook, I suspect it will be a very difficult evening for the favorite Donaire.

Dangit! And I read every word of the Storm's post. It superglued me and pulled me like gravity is pulling down a big-booty sweetie's hinny. Hahaha! And that is life and no hate. Ain't got any arse to be pulled in any direction. Hehe!

Nice stuff, BTW, Storm. Holla!

Thanks Sugar & Radam for the kind words. I really feel for the clean fighters on this issue. As aside from principles, with the way the boxing business is these days; there is very little reason to stay clean sometimes.

Like the sport is not hard enough and you already don't have to watch your back; as it is.

I don't know or have not seen enough of Rigondeaux to know whether he can hurt Donaire. And I can understand how someone may be hesitant to be involved with Conte. But when dealing with VADA, you're not really dealing with Conte. As he mostly just provides advice to VADA about PEDs, whats going down and how the backstreet labs make them - the kind of valuable information Goodman really wouldn't be able to source herself.

That said, all VADA's testing is completely transparent and repeatable. Furthermore, there's consistency and traceability; unlike USADA.

Personally, I think Rigondeaux is cluthching at straws with the references to Conte. Rigondeaux' failures to provide his details and whereabouts are very, very concerning. He says he has undertaken Olympic style testing before, but then if he has; he should know that the testers need your contact details and whereabouts.

Otherwise how are the tests random? The fact that his promoter is not really using their strength to deal with his evasiveness is also concerning. It makes you look at how sculptured that body is.

On the other hand, the "Heredia Connection" has no insulation layer and is not short of a previous and recent scandal; is it? I love JMM, but c'mon man, his bulk was eye opening. And asking other conditioning coaches (cue the video interviews with Ariza and the like) as to whether that bulk was natural; is like asking the justice system if they make mistakes and/or if lawyers lie. Non of these old skool fighters used to bulk up like this. And there were far fewer with perfectly chiseled bodies. I'm not saying Ariza is or is not "connected"; but sitting where he is, he's not going to blow the lid on his own fraternity and gym, or bring it any heat; whether what he says makes sense or not.

Apparently Rigondeaux' team claim they have, now, provided the necessary details to VADA. And they're claiming they have no association with Heredia. The last point is particularly interesting, as I know several people that I trust that say they know Rigondeaux is associated with Heredia.

Anyway, if for nothing else, it certainly makes for an interesting and grudge fuelled fight.

Yeh, OK. If possible, can you fill me in on what yours and the general (forum-wise) consensus was with PEDs and JMM? I would be interested to know.

Everybodee and dey momma are on some syet. It just depend if it's the latest approved one by corrupted-@$$ local boxing commissions. All type of zhit has been made legal for Money May in Sin City. Cali boxing commission is so crooked that it waved Berto's suspension because it decided not to recognized the VADA for zhit. The Washington D.C. boxing commission approved its homeboy Lamont Peterson because it decided that roids in pellets shot up in your rectum and hidden in your poot ain't worth a hill of syet. Hehehe!

BTW, the corrupted-arse Nevada State Boxing Commission is on record saying: "If you can hide (roids and/or PEDs) from showing overload in yo p¡ss, because of big Money coming, yo'@$$ we'll (kiss)."

C'mon, Storm! Money May has even said that Da Manny has now learned a lesson about "not making a person take the test for BANNED SUBSTANCES." BAN SUBSTANCES." Not the allowed legal roids and PEDs. Just BANNED SUBSTANCES.

Marquez used "banned substances" to get that quicky Hulkized look. That falling Angel Heredia is/was Marquez's quickie ho of banned syet that the falling angel could easily hide from Sin City's weak-@$$ p¡ss test that crooked stanks what to be weak. It's money first, in the middle and last. Holla!

Thanks for that Radam. Dont get me wrong, I'm not naive. But I just wasn't sure what the general feeling here was for what's going on. Personally, I believe that the sport is awash with it, and from what you're saying it seems you do to. I have, like you, also had my doubts about Floyd too. And as far as JMM goes . . . . well I think you said it all. His size was not natural and I don't believe any guy in his division could put that much muscle on in the time provided, naturally. Furthermore, these rumours about Gamboa (whom has an association with Rigondeaux) are very "interesting".

Thanks for your response.