Should He Be "Tap Out" Victor Instead of "Vicious Victor?" |
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| Written by Ron Borges | |||
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Monday, 25 June 2012 19:03
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For the second time in his career, Ortiz quit in the midst of a fight and for the third time he looked for a way out, the latter being his bizarre hugfest with Floyd Mayweather, Jr. while in the midst of taking a beating that led to him first head butt Mayweather like a billy goat and then eat a rapid fire combination that knocked him out as he tried to plead for forgiveness by repeatedly grasping Mayweather after referee Joe Cortez said, “Let’s go!’’ To be fair, Saturday night was slightly different but he still failed to adhere to the warrior’s code that rules boxing. In what had become a surprisingly close fight, Ortiz found himself getting as good as he was giving against Josesito Lopez, a journeyman junior welterweight who was refusing to be overwhelmed even though Ortiz can crack despite his apparent heart defect. According to Ortiz early in the ninth round, Lopez “busted my jaw.’’ At the end of the round Ortiz ignored the pleading of his corner and signaled to referee Jack Reiss that he was through. “Say what?’’ Reiss asked, incredulous. “What’s broken? Are you stopping the fight?’’ Ortiz was at that point struggling to free himself from the grasp of trainer Danny Garcia, who was pleading for him to continue. He then looked at Reiss when he asked if he was stopping the fight and said “Yes.. My jaw’s broken.’’ According to his manager, Roberto Arellano, Ortiz’s jaw was indeed broken in two places and was re-set the next day with a plate screwed into it. Certainly the pain was immense but sadly for Ortiz boxing isn’t called the hurt business for nothing. Absorption of absurd amounts of pain is a requirement if one is to maximize one’s gifts in prize fighting. It is expected and demanded. This is not UFC, where a man can quit with no penalty. Quit inside a boxing ring once and you are seen as suspect. Do it twice and you become thought of the way Lopez expressed it Saturday night after his hand was raised. “I’m a man,’’ said Lopez (31-4, 19 KO), who fought much of the night with his left eye half closed and his right swollen. “I’m not intimidated by nothing. He tried to intimidate me but it didn’t work. Victor has no heart!’’ Harsh though that may seem to civilians and absurd as it may sound to many who do not understand boxing’s harsh demands, there is nothing worse that can be said about a fighter than those four words: “Victor has no heart.’’ Fighting with a broken jaw for nine more minutes would have been excruciating. It is far easier to tell someone else what they should do with their pain than it is to face your own. Yet the demands of boxing are clear when you sign on. You do not quit. That is what separates fighters from the rest of the population. When good sense and every fiber of your body is screaming at you to retreat, they go forward. When it is clear the pain is unbearable, they fight on. It is the warrior’s code, the fighter’s heart. Sadly, Victor Ortiz does not follow the code nor have that heart. He can punch like a mule and it would be unfair to say he is totally without heart because he is not. He fought bravely against Andre Berto and for much of the fight with Lopez. Both lashed him with big punches and he fought back. The problem for Ortiz is when the opponent not only continues to lash him but appears to get the upper hand and asks him to pay a price for victory he feels is too high. When that happens, Ortiz folds up and quits as he did against Marcos Maidana in 2009, did in a more curious way against Mayweather and did over his corner’s protest Saturday night. Would fighting on with a broken jaw be common sense? Of course not but is boxing common sense in the first place? No it is not. Fighting with a broken jaw is far from without precedent. Ken Norton broke Muhammad Ali’s jaw in the second round of their 1973 fight in San Diego. Ali fought on despite increasing swelling and lost a split decision. But one does not have to go that far into history to find an example of the warrior’s approach to a broken jaw. In 2006, Arthur Abraham, then IBF middleweight champion, had his jaw broken in two places by Edison Miranda in the fifth round. Abraham fought on after initially saying he wanted to stop, won the fight and the next day had 22 screws and two plates riveted into his jaw. He was widely praised for his bravery and ate out of a straw for some time. Had Ortiz at least tried to go on one would have more respect for his decision but unlike Ali, Abraham and others in boxing’s painful history, he did not. His jaw appeared to come unhinged in the latter moments of the ninth round and he ran for the remaining seconds and understandably so. But after coming to his corner he not only refused to listen to his trainer but called the referee over and said his jaw was broken and he could not go on. Would not go on is a better way to put it. After he quit against Maidana in 2009 after being knocked down and pummeled, Ortiz told a national TV audience, “I’m going to stop while I’m ahead, and that way, I can speak well when I’m older. We’ll see what happens from here on out, man. I’m young, but I don’t think I deserve to be getting beaten up like this. So I have a lot of thinking to do.” His conclusion was to return to boxing and he did well enough. He won a welterweight title, got up off the floor to beat Berto and provided fans with some sizzling action because his defense is as bad as his offense is good. But he fouled blatantly against Mayweather once he got frustrated and his first night back after a nine month layoff he blatantly fouled Lopez several times as well, rabbit punching him behind the head. Admittedly Lopez at times was dipping low but as Reiss told Ortiz twice that didn’t give him the right to drill him in the back of the neck, a particularly vulnerable area for a boxer. Ortiz did it more than once and he did it more than twice, truth be told. Reiss threatened to penalize him but did not. Soon Lopez would, cracking his jaw with a sweeping hook that landed with Ortiz’s mouth open. That, too, was fitting because frankly he talks too much and fights too little. But now he has a lot more thinking to do because, frankly, a boxing ring is not the place for him. Victor Ortiz can punch like a mule and he can be vicious at times but long before he fought Mayweather James Toney, a boxer who is as old school as Ortiz is New Age, predicted Ortiz would quit again. James Toney was right. When faced with the harshest side of the business he himself chose, Victor Ortiz at least twice has chosen the one act that is unacceptable. He tapped out. Now maybe he is too. SouthPaul says:
Gerald McClellan and Meldrick Taylor. Too much heart and not enough quit. Great for the blood thirsty fans; bad for those two fighters and their families. Ortiz' comments in the Midiana fight were so refreshing to me..a sport filled with so much false bravado.. Fighters claiming they'd rather die than quit.. And I believe these goofballs exist... Goofballs because in the end..it shouldn't be that serious..we are talking a sport here.. It's nothing worth dying for. Better a coward for a day or a moment than dead for the rest or your life. Lmao at all the unrealistic expectations. ultimoshogun says:
Perfectly said SouthPaul...Too often we forget thats somebody's son, brother or dad in there taking a beating. dino da vinci says:
The above guys commenting are three of my favorite reads, but I think Borges made the more valid points. I like to watch Victor fight as much as the next guy, but I don't believe he's helping his cause; because the more this continues, the more his opponents will delay quitting themselves when things get ugly. They'll hold out hope that if they can just hang in there, something really good may happen. Radam G says:
NICELY -- NOT, IMHO -- "Perfectly said SouthPaul." Nonetheless, you cannot "be dead for the rest of your life." I think that there is no darn life in being dead is it? But, then again, I ain't ever been dead as far as I know, so I don't know Jackspit about what is in being dead. But if my arse can back or make contact with you, I've holla at cha.' Hahahaha! Radam G says:
NICELY -- NOT, IMHO -- "Perfectly said SouthPaul." Nonetheless, you cannot "be dead for the rest of your life." I think that there is no darn life in being dead is it? But, then again, I ain't ever been dead as far as I know, so I don't know Jackspit about what is in being dead. But if my arse can back or make contact with you, I've holla at cha.' Hahahaha! Radam G says:
YUP! No DOUBT! "BOOT da CORNER." You need liars, con men and wacko to trick you into denying the pain and blood and finishing the bout and gettin' da win. And then everybodee and dey momma won't be acting like you committed a deadly boxing SIN! -- QUITTING!!! riverside says:
In RG words wow!! The writing hit the spot. on my view I will not call Victor Ortiz any more names My bad!! he has proven to be a good competitor and very good loser,to say the least,unlike some bravado boxers who lose and refuse to knowledge defeat. Vicious doesn't fit him, in his profession. He quit fighting and that's all she wrote. Mikey garcia said yesterday his brother did his job as a trainer and it is up to Ortiz to do his job, Mikey and Josesito share the same two feathers gym in riverside,but Mikey is neutral. and blames Ortiz for quitting the bout. if I would have gotten my jaw broken, i would have pleaded with my corner to continue if they thought of stopping the fight, but then i again i don't know any better, we have too many brave men in the cemetery. brownsugar says: Ron Borges,.. and I say this with the upmost respect.... your full of sh*&T. tlig says: I know a lot of boxing fans on the internet do not like Victor and I can- to some degree- understand this but the fact is his jaw was broken. Seriously guys, is it any wonder fighters don't care about the fans these days when us fans show no appreciation for their well being? Even Ali admitted that he'd have stopped if he knew his jaw was broken, asked "why" by the interviewer and his answer was "you think I'm a fool?". Ortiz may not be the type of warrior we like but that's his choice. Not everyone is willing to die in there and that's fine by me. tlig says: I know a lot of boxing fans on the internet do not like Victor and I can- to some degree- understand this but the fact is his jaw was broken. Seriously guys, is it any wonder fighters don't care about the fans these days when us fans show no appreciation for their well being? Even Ali admitted that he'd have stopped if he knew his jaw was broken, asked "why" by the interviewer and his answer was "you think I'm a fool?". Ortiz may not be the type of warrior we like but that's his choice. Not everyone is willing to die in there and that's fine by me. gZOTTIE says: Both sides of this argument make solid points, so allow me to introduce some middle ground. This fight confirmed that Victor Ortiz is officially a gatekeeper of the welterweight divisions. If you want to be a great, you have to get past Victor. If you lose to Victor, you're now a journeyman. undisputed34 says: B Sug...you are the man. And THAT was the best post concerning this subject. I remember once years ago while sparring with a cruiser in miami, i got touched up and let me tell you, i dont care if you have boxed or not...when somebody puts one on the button, to hell with what anyone else has to say. After six rounds (which was my limit) of jabbing this sparkplug of a guy to death, i was about to get out of the ring when coach demanded we go two more rounds...long story short, he came over the top of a lazy jab with everything he had and i danced like michael jackson. Everyone on the sidelines afterward said i took it like a champ and shrugged it off, but the ONLY reason i didnt quit right then is because i was literally unconscious on my feet. I didnt remember hearing the bell ring to stop or start the next round and the only way i knew it was over was because someone jumped up and took my headgear off for me. When i spit my mouthpiece out, i couldnt open or close my mouth completely for two weeks. i even lost a couple of pounds because i didnt want to eat. To hell with what anybody on the sidelines has to say...there is no shame in realizing when you are defeated, and real warriors understand that. Only people who have never fought or risked their lives can question someones heart. life isnt a damn video game where you can just get a do over when you get hurt/killed...Im not mad at victor. live to fight another day. ali says: I pretty much disagree with everyone's post on this subject in my Teddy Atlas voice behave like a fighter. Stop saying his life was on the the line cuz it wasn't he wasn't take a beating over them nine rounds. The obituary lair is a quitter plain and simple. This what boxing is all about sometimes u have to fight through things you never thought u could to get a win the great ones find a way. gibola says: I agree with most of the responses on here. It's clear Victor is only willing to take this boxing business so far and it's his right. He pays for it with losses and a career that will never hit the heights, but he should not be ridiculed for feeling pain and responding in the manner that he feels appropriate. Like all boxing fans I marvel at Marciano against Charles 1 and Joe Frazier in Manilla but not every fighter can be like that and if I was related to a fighter (a son for example) I would not want them to take it as far as a Frazier or Marciano. This is a wonderful sport, fighters should be prepared to fight as far as is reasonable for our entertainment but when they feel they have reached their limit, I'm fine with them stopping. The price Ortiz will pay is in dollars and an unfulfilled career, people will think twice about buying/watching his fights in the future, promoters/networks will be less keen to use him. The fighters who are willing to push the envelope will be most popular and get more opportunities. I may admire Joe Frazier more than Victor Ortiz in many ways, but I respect them both as men and as fighters. If Victor can live with his decisions then I certainly can as a fan. brownsugar says: @Undisputed..... the have confirmed that Ortiz broke his jaw in 2 places. The story is on ESPN. Hey...great story. That's got to be an uncomfortable memory. amayseng says: well first off ortiz was not looking for a way out in this lopez fight... lopez was twirling and whipping ortiz all over the place, swinging him around in clinches, holding and hitting. ali says: McNabb broke ankle, Emmitt Smith separated shoulder, Jack Youngblood broken leg, Matthew says: I'm a little torn on this one. Every boxer that has the courage to step in the ring and get punched for a living deserves respect. I've never set foot in a professional prize ring before, so I don't feel comfortable questioning a guy's heart, especially when Ortiz showed so much resolve against Berto. That being said, this is twice (maybe three times, if you think he looked for a way out against Mayweather) that Ortiz has quit when the heat got too hot in the kitchen. I don't know that I could have gone on with a broken jaw, but then again, boxers by nature are able to endure pain that we regular folks could never imagine. Maybe instead of clubbing Ortiz, we should use this fight to illustrate just how incredibly tough guys like Ali and Abraham were in continuing on despite their injuries. I think it's fair to say that Ortiz is a talented, but flawed, head case who is generally fun to watch and is usually in exciting fights. What do you guys think? dino da vinci says: I'm a little torn on this one. Every boxer that has the courage to step in the ring and get punched for a living deserves respect. I've never set foot in a professional prize ring before, so I don't feel comfortable questioning a guy's heart, especially when Ortiz showed so much resolve against Berto. That being said, this is twice (maybe three times, if you think he looked for a way out against Mayweather) that Ortiz has quit when the heat got too hot in the kitchen. I don't know that I could have gone on with a broken jaw, but then again, boxers by nature are able to endure pain that we regular folks could never imagine. Maybe instead of clubbing Ortiz, we should use this fight to illustrate just how incredibly tough guys like Ali and Abraham were in continuing on despite their injuries. I think it's fair to say that Ortiz is a talented, but flawed, head case who is generally fun to watch and is usually in exciting fights. What do you guys think? Well, this guy thinks that your statement about fighters deserving respect is 1,000,000% accurate. The reality is we truly don't know how severe the injury was, and whether or not he was looking to quit several rounds earlier as pointed out to me by an individual who might just have the best opinion on the planet. Of course, severity of injury is different in every case, and I'd prefer to give Victor every benefit of the doubt, because 1) He's young. 2) He can crack. 3) He's de la Hoya good looking...thus bringing in the female vote. 4) His manager, Rolando Arellano, is a quote machine. 5) Did I mention he can crack? 6) His trainer, Robert Garcia, is a class act. Much like Larry Merchant stated about Arturo Gatti, "enjoy him while he lasts" (or something to that effect), it may be applicable here as well. I initially felt this was going to negatively impact his career much like 'gibola' pointed out in this very thread. His name is certainly being bantered about, and this continued attention may actually end up working out just fine for him. Matthew says: I think he used to train with Robert Garcia (hence the perceived rivalry with Brandon Rios), but now trains with Robert's brother Danny Garcia. dino da vinci says: I think he used to train with Robert Garcia (hence the perceived rivalry with Brandon Rios), but now trains with Robert's brother Danny Garcia. I believe you're right. Radam G says: YUP! Every cat and his side rat are speaking righteously. VVO, first fought with little bro' Robert G, but big bro' stole him away. Matter of fact, homeless, teenager Victor Ortiz was brought to Cali by Rob G. Radam G says: @Und34, c'mon, MAN! If your arse get "touched up" by a real-deal boxer, you won't feel JACK! You felt this and that because of your fright factor. Your mind was playing tricks on you. Any boxer, worth his salt, shuts off the mind. The mind/brain has 100,000 thousand types of chemical going through it per second. And if you are use to gettin' fright, you'll always be ready to quit a fight. You did what you do as a human -- not strong, strange animals that boxers are, so please do me a BIG favor and not talk for US. Holla! Radam G says: Oh, YUP, ind34, BTW, boxers go through fights all the times and don't even remember the fight or the day. [You have never being boxing hit, just bytch hit.] So if you have such a great ability to be remembering syet, you're not doing the stuff that is needed to be a true fighting WARRIOR in or outta da squared jungle. No courageous warrior is thinking about the possibilities of getting or being hurt while he is doing da do. It is all about puttin' on on the opposition. Da game is 75 percent mental, and even one percent concern about gettin' hurt while you are doing da do. [Did you see and hear VVO's conqueror?] SouthPaul says: NICELY -- NOT, IMHO -- "Perfectly said SouthPaul." Nonetheless, you cannot "be dead for the rest of your life." I think that there is no darn life in being dead is it? But, then again, I ain't ever been dead as far as I know, so I don't know Jackspit about what is in being dead. But if my arse can come back or make contact with you, I've holla at cha.' Hahahaha! Dat darn Grim Reaper better make sure that he has me down and out. See, AIN'T no PUNK! I'll fight everything but a nun and a woman. Glady Reaper or Sister Teresa Reaper probably will get my arse with no problems. But Grim? I'm gonna try to fudge him up and 1,001 deaths that look like him for awhile, as my 109-year-old Uncle Mamoy has been doing dat arse. Holla! LMAO, glad it sort of made sense. Years ago when I read that I knew then it was a keeper for life. Its the same logic in this song: If I Ever Leave This World Alive by Floggin' Molly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TamOrADrhwc SouthPaul says: @SP: I give you my word, I've known many (many,many,many,many...) men (and some ladies) that, once that bell rang, they were going to win or die trying. 4sho'! Carmine Cas says: If it's true that Ali wasn't aware of his fractured jaw, and later stated that he would of quit had he knew. And that Arthur Abraham got all kinds of breaks and special treatment during the Miranda fight than part of Borge's argument is flawed. Each event is subjective to the situation, you can't compare Ortiz to the other two. Yes this is boxing and yes it's imperative to have heart, but at the same time you have to take care of yourself...live to fight another day. At the end of the day it's your health, if he chooses to look out for his health so be it, he might lose respect in the boxing world but not to everyone else SouthPaul says: Ortiz' case is rock solid. A docs note to excuse 'em. If the wire in the jaw fits--- you must acquit. Quitter case dismissed. My alter egos name is Johnny SOCKhran. All fighters that need representation.... holla' at a nugga'. undisputed34 says: @ Radam...you my friend, are a funny individual indeed, who needs to learn how to read. I told my story to say in essence, that i have been cracked (by a professional boxer, a journeyman, but a professional all the same) and though i did not quit, had i been aware, i may have. My jaw was not broken in two places, nor did i need a mechanic to build me a new one. I fought on without anyone being the wiser because my training and muscle memory allowed me to do so. Every boxer who has some semblance of skill knows that you are supposed to feel some sense of apprehension or fear when you get in the ring. It makes you sharp. You just dont allow yourself to be controlled or frozen by that fear. Every boxer that has put in the work can tell you about at least one time when they were cracked so hard that the memory of it will never die. Its usually the punch that separates those who are playing from those who are serious. Maybe some of you here have had a simalar experience when first entering a boxing gym and declaring " i want to fight " to a trainer and they put you in on the first day with a skilled amatuer just to see where your heart is at. When i trained for each one of those activities, getting hurt or possibly killed was never far from my mind and it had nothing to do with being superstitious and everything to do with not slcking on my preparation or focus. Fighters come in all shapes and sizes, and i feel that opinions like assholes are usually full of sh*t..especially coming from those (like yourself) who are too eager to offer them. undisputed34 says: @ Radam...you my friend, are a funny individual indeed, who needs to learn how to read. I told my story to say in essence, that i have been cracked (by a professional boxer, a journeyman, but a professional all the same) and though i did not quit, had i been aware, i may have. My jaw was not broken in two places, nor did i need a mechanic to build me a new one. I fought on without anyone being the wiser because my training and muscle memory allowed me to do so. Every boxer who has some semblance of skill knows that you are supposed to feel some sense of apprehension or fear when you get in the ring. It makes you sharp. You just dont allow yourself to be controlled or frozen by that fear. Every boxer that has put in the work can tell you about at least one time when they were cracked so hard that the memory of it will never die. Its usually the punch that separates those who are playing from those who are serious. Maybe some of you here have had a simalar experience when first entering a boxing gym and declaring " i want to fight " to a trainer and they put you in on the first day with a skilled amatuer just to see where your heart is at. When i trained for each one of those activities, getting hurt or possibly killed was never far from my mind and it had nothing to do with being superstitious and everything to do with not slcking on my preparation or focus. Fighters come in all shapes and sizes, and i feel that opinions like assholes are usually full of sh*t..especially coming from those (like yourself) who are too eager to offer them. undisputed34 says: @ ali...i for one, dont think its ok for him to quit nor do i think we should make any excuses for him, but though hes quit more than once, hes still young and i think its due more to him possibly needing a new trainer...one who can teach him how to balance his offense with better defense, thereby reducing his chances of getting hit cleanly and taking enough punishment to make him want to quit. To be fair, its not like he got hit with one or two punches before quitting both times...he took a good amount of punishment in both cases. A great trainer would take stock of the idiosyncracies of his fighter and while its not possible to make someones chin stronger, you can teach them how to control the situation or instances leading up to having it tested. You cant teach a fighter to have no quit in him, without giving him all the tools both physically and mentally,that are necessary for him to believe it...thats just my opinion though.. Radam G says: Und34, WRONG! WRONG! Cain did what I said. You Yanks make stuff up to fit with your nowadays cultural likes. Next you will tell me that Adam and Eve bit an apple. I read clearly what you posted and understood it. And writers write and fighters fight. And they do under all circumstances. We are closers not posers. And don't need to clutter and mutter. We just get on the true butter! Sorry that you are so hypersentitive with having your way with your belief system. But that is not how reality flows. Not even in cyberspace. malbonmalbon says: Watch here Portugal vs Spain Live Stream Online Euro Cup 2012 27 June, 2012. Portugal vs Spain Live Stream Online will held on 18:45 GMT, 27 June, 2012. All Soccer supporters, don't miss to watch this game live on LIVE SPORTS TV. dino da vinci says: @ Radam...you my friend, are a funny individual indeed, who needs to learn how to read. I told my story to say in essence, that i have been cracked (by a professional boxer, a sparring partner for O'neil Bell and journeyman, but a professional all the same) and though i did not quit, had i been aware, i may have. My jaw was not broken in two places, nor did i need a mechanic to build me a new one. I fought on without anyone being the wiser because my training and muscle memory allowed me to do so. Every boxer who has some semblance of skill knows that you are supposed to feel some sense of apprehension or fear when you get in the ring. It makes you sharp. You just dont allow yourself to be controlled or frozen by that fear. Every boxer that has put in the work can tell you about at least one time when they were cracked so hard that the memory of it will never die. Its usually the punch that separates those who are playing from those who are serious. Maybe some of you here have had a similar experience when first entering a boxing gym and declaring [B]" i want to fight " to a trainer and they put you in on the first day with a skilled amatuer just to see where your heart is at. [/B] Radam G says: Every fighter has fear that he turns on and off like FIRE! That jive "some sense of apprehension" is FRIGHT! And no boxer, worth his salt has THAT! FRIGHT is for gettin'-ready-to-make-excuses muthasuckas. deepwater says: its not the pain that makes you want to quit its the confusion and the mental breakdown which gets to you. i got cracked in the ribs and couldnt breath. when i got back to the corner I told the trainer to stop the fight i got a cracked rib. he slapped me in the face and said shut the f up you got more ribs. i didnt bail out and stayed in there and got the win. its not the pain, its your bodies reaction to the injury and if your not mentally strong you cant handle it. no one ever quit and cried and said it hurts. experience is the only thing that gets you ready for it. Radam G says: Preach and TEACH, Deepwater! PREACH and TEACH! Hehehehehe! Dat's what I'm spittin' about. You know straight up when a righteous, real pugilist, who been there and done that, is posting. deepwater says: [QUOTE=Radam G;17883]Preach and TEACH, Deepwater! PREACH and TEACH! Hehehehehe! Dat's what I'm spittin' about. You know straight up when a righteous, real pugilist, who been there and done that, is posting. brownsugar says: [QUOTE=deepwater;17875]its not the pain that makes you want to quit its the confusion and the mental breakdown which gets to you. i got cracked in the ribs and couldnt breath. when i got back to the corner I told the trainer to stop the fight i got a cracked rib. he slapped me in the face and said shut the f up you got more ribs. i didnt bail out and stayed in there and got the win. its not the pain,its your bodies reaction to the injury and if your not mentally strong you cant handle it. no one ever quit and cried and said it hurts. [B]experience is the only thing that gets you ready for it.[/[/B]QUOTE] brownsugar says: I remember that fight like it was yesterday. the keyboard tappers were saying that Vitali was so big and Bryd was so small, why didn't the big Ukranian just box him with one hand??? undisputed34 says: @ Dino... Thanks, bro...well that was my baptism into the first boxing gym I ever visited, and how I got my start and passion for the sweetness...I don't remember the guys name but he didn't really try to hurt me...he moreso embarrassed me by standing right in front of me and making me whiff until I got tired. After that, he had his way with me by letting me know he could touch me whenever he felt like it. Since then, I've learned so much about what a trainer shouldn't do to a kid/guy fresh off the street, but like you said there are only a handful of really good gyms and guys that care enough to invest their time and attention in someone enough to see beyond a potential dollar sign later on. One thing I can say was a positive for me though, was that it showed me who I really was in that, though I was no match for the guy, I learned that I wouldn't fold under pressure and that lesson is one that I've benefitted from in every aspect of my life.. undisputed34 says: under 190 with the right motivation. Now i dont know how old you are or what type of shape you're in, ( forgive me if you're old enough to be a grandfather ) But im on the East Coast in North Carolina. If you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods, you should look me up. No tough talk, no big words...but you seem to be the type that needs a special type of convincing and it would be my everlasting pleasure to indulge you. Then, if you choose to, you can feel free to question my heart, ability or knowledge about the game to your hearts content. You can even blog about the experience right here in the wonderful TSS universe. I hope this wasn't too sensitive response for you...lol... Radam G says: Wow! You are wacky than I thought, 666! Let it GO! It was just another LUV TKO! Quit spinning yo' noggin around and vomiting and shouting cuss words and __ ____! I'm in my 30s too, sucka! But I'm a CHAMPION'S CHAMPION and don't have time for a cyberspace ___ ___ ____ ___! WHAT! WHAT! I got your T up. Just move along, and don't read my posts. Besides there are plenty of people in North Carolina in da hurt bitnezz that will tell you that you don't want any PART of a REAL MAN or PUGILIST with skills to pay da bills and can conquer all mountains and hills. That is the way Radam G rolls. Radam G says: You know since this dude is acting so girlish, and I don't fight born girls, or girls trapped in bodies of 6-foot-1, 215lbs dudes, or just are a bit sweet and bytch and cry like they have a lot of sugar in their tanks. But I do have a 13-year-old girl cousin, who just won the World Junior Olympic gold medal, she'll fight/spar with a girlish 6-foot-1, 215lbs dude in a nanosec. And, of all places, she is presently in Cherry Hill, N.C. visiting with relatives, who now reside in North Carolina. What a small WORLD. Pinoys are EVERYWHERE! the Roast says: I'll take UD34 over Radam by....UD of course. Radam was been a little unhinged since his beloved Manny lost to Tim freakin Bradley. Maybe we can send the TSS moble unit over to check on him. I'd go but we are in final edits are underway for the film and my band Hot Dog Breath is recording some tunes for the soundtrack. Such a gratifying project. Get well soon Radam. the Roast says: I'll take UD34 over Radam by....UD of course. Radam was been a little unhinged since his beloved Manny lost to Tim freakin Bradley. Maybe we can send the TSS moble unit over to check on him. I'd go but we are in final edits are underway for the film and my band Hot Dog Breath is recording some tunes for the soundtrack. Such a gratifying project. Get well soon Radam. SouthPaul says: Lmao. Truthfully, I can get down with defending any one fighter to the fullest like that. I mean, it's not like we're on the payroll. Get ourselves all hot and bothered and put our lack of ration on display, for what? I'm all about equal opportunity. I'll switch my love and hate up on a sucka' real quick when he's earned it. Radam G says: I'm don't know what you are talking about, the Roast. UD34, 666, or whatever his handle is, has issues, PERIOD! Hehehehe! I don't know JACK about Da Manny lost to "Tim freakin Bradley." Did you see something that I MISSED? But, anyway, because of that cheat, my G-Force family stands to make billions in the next few years. You need to catch up with the TECH time. Just like Pinoy TIME! Asian TIME! My lad. TotoyBato says: The author is RIGHT. Ortiz always looked for a way out and he is a QUITTER. There's no room for that kind in Prizefighting. It's a savage sport. If you can't take it go try someting else like figure skating or bowling. dino da vinci says: [QUOTE=TotoyBato;17931]The author is RIGHT. Ortiz always looked for a way out and he is a QUITTER. There's no room for that kind in Prizefighting. It's a savage sport. If you can't take it go try someting else like figure skating or bowling.[/QUOTE] SouthPaul says: I think Totoybato should look for a way out of being a boxing fan and go watch some snuff videos. Maybe that'll satisfy your need for savagery. the Roast says: [QUOTE=dino da vinci;17932]Hey, hey, hey! Go easy with the bowling belittling Laugh if you want. Wanted to be a pro bowler when I was a kid. Johnny Petraglia, Carmen Salvino, Buzz Fazio, Earl Anthony...I rooted for some of these guys with the same intensity as I rooted for Ali. the Roast says: Radam, you know I'm just F-ing with you. The Roast cant read all of these long posts all the way through. I have a very short attention span you know. I never even saw the whole Pac-Bradley fight. Like Real Talk I fell asleep during the replay. Not the saw when you know it is going the distance. I enjoy the posts of Radam G and UD34, as long as they're not too long. undisputed34 says: Just like i thought...all mouth. Just keeping it light with you, Radam...you seem to be the one having an emotional moment. You claim some type of pedigree so since you questioned mine, i was giving you the opportunity to back it up. No need for all the hooting and hollering. This is a site for people who love fighting...presumably have a fighting spirit and actually fight themselves. I just figured you were one of them. No hard feelings, my man. But thats what fighters do where i am from. When their hearts, abilities or opinions are questioned, we offer the opportunity to settle the matter in a friendly way or agree to disagree. Since you're not interested in the first option, then i guess we go with the second one. And to be honest, I dont really read your posts as much as you seem to read mine. Dont call my name if you dont want me to answer. TotoyBato says: @Dino & Paul, I meant for Ortiz to quit boxing. But y'all are welcome to watch Victor quit when he faces a 7-10 split or fails to stick a triple axel SouthPaul says: That's pretty funny. Lmao but ummmmmmmm... Tell me ...by your laws and standards when is it ok for a fighter to call it a night? Injury wise, name a few a fighter is ok to call it quits on? SouthPaul says: [B]undisputed34[/B] Radam G says: HAHAHHAHAHA! C'mon, 666 dude. You don't have the make up for toughness. Get over it! It's all right to be a cyberspace creampuff. Everybody and dey momma cannot be ruff and tuff. TotoyBato says: Ready to die in the ring and ready to kill in the ring. Griffith-Paret, Mancini-Kim, Jones-Scottland, Chavez-Nazareth. There are systems (the referee, ring doctor, his corner, the matchmakers) in place to ensure a fighter's safety. The fighter's job is to fight. The participants in the sport know what is expected. It's not false bravado. it's the resolve to win. Ortiz has all the talent but lacks resolve. Ortiz showed up to box Lopez. Lopez showed up to beat Ortiz. Lopez was ready. dino da vinci says: [QUOTE=TotoyBato;17943]@Dino & Paul, I meant for Ortiz to quit boxing. But y'all are welcome to watch Victor quit when he faces a 7-10 split or fails to stick a triple axel [/QUOTE] brownsugar says: [QUOTE=TotoyBato;17971]Ready to die in the ring and ready to kill in the ring. Griffith-Paret, Mancini-Kim, Jones-Scottland, Chavez-Nazareth. There are systems (the referee, ring doctor, his corner, the matchmakers) in place to ensure a fighter's safety. The fighter's job is to fight. The participants in the sport know what is expected. It's not false bravado. it's the resolve to win. Ortiz has all the talent but lacks resolve. Ortiz showed up to box Lopez. Lopez showed up to beat Ortiz. Lopez was ready.[/QUOTE] jesster64 says: First of all, I wish ortiz nothing but the best. Saying that, I will never pay to see him fight again. Using his head against mayweather was the first strike, laughing after he got counted out was his second strike, quitting on his stool was his third strike. I've never had to fight with a broken jaw so i don't know how much pain he was in. Golota quit vs tyson because of a broken jaw. But wanting to win has to come from within. Bradley didn't quit when he hurt his ankle vs pac. Ray mercer didn't quit vs bert cooper when his jaw looked like it sprouted a watermelon. Gatti couldn't see but he didn't quit. I don't blame any fighter for stopping if he is risking his life or long term health, but a broken jaw is painful, not life threatening. He chose boxing as a career, broken noses, black eyes, and busted jaws come with the territory. Its not pretty, but he was ahead in the fight when he quit. There comes a point where I don't blame a fighter or corner for stopping unnescessary damage. Margarito was finished and had no chance of winning vs pac and still his corner refused to throw in the towel, but ortiz, he was winning. Now you have to wonder if the last 2 fights are in his head and how will it affect him. physically, he can bang with anyone, mentally, I think he's done. malbonmalbon says: [URL="http://livesopcast.com/euro2012.html">Watch here Portugal vs Spain Live Stream Online Euro Cup 2012 27 June, 2012. Portugal vs Spain Live Stream Online will held on 18:45 GMT, 27 June, 2012. All Soccer supporters, don't miss to watch this game live on LIVE SPORTS TV. malbonmalbon says:
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Perhaps it is time for Victor Ortiz to change his nickname from “Vicious Victor’’ to “Tap Out’’ Victor?
C'mon, GUYS! Hop outta the Vicious One's grill. He didn't come close to get on a "Tap Out." Team VVO's corner did not do its job. Nuff spit! Holla!