TOLEDO--UNPLUGGING PAC-MAN: SOLVING THE STYLE OF MANNY PACQUIAO

BY Springs Toledo ON July 15, 2011
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manny-pacquiao-erik-moralesIn 1965, Fighting Harada tore into the great Eder Jofre for fifteen rounds and toppled him from the bantamweight throne. From that high perch, Harada thrilled Japan with four successful title defenses. His fifth was against an Australian Aborigine. This challenger, only nineteen years old, was assumed to be nothing more than a “push-over” by the Japanese matchmaker.

As it happened, Lionel Rose tore into the great Harada for fifteen rounds and toppled him from the bantamweight throne. The upset sent shockwaves from coast to coast. “I lose my job,” said the matchmaker afterwards.

Harada was perhaps the greatest Asian fighter in history until another idol from another island nation took his fourth linear title and left Harada blinking in the glory lights.

Manny Pacquiao has not been officially defeated since 2005 when he faced Erik Morales, a conventional boxer-puncher. Many analysts, including this one, believe that another great Mexican fighter defeated him in 2008. Juan Manuel Marquez, a technician, managed to counter Pacquiao’s turbo charges and stun him several times in their rematch. Pacquiao got lucky in that one and left the super featherweight division behind forever. The claim that he fled the division to avoid a rubber match with his nemesis was put to the wind after he vanquished a lightweight titlist, humiliated an icon, and stepped over the flattened form of the Jr. welterweight champion.

Pacquiao then attacked the top echelon of the welterweight class.

Miguel Cotto was rescued by the referee and said that he “didn’t know from where the punches were coming.” Joshua Clottey peaked out from behind his guard to see punches coming from every angle and holed up for 12 rounds until the storm passed. The villainous Antonio Margarito ended up in the hospital with fractures to his face; he blamed Pacquiao’s speed for putting him there. The once-formidable Shane Mosley was dropped by a left hand and spent the next nine rounds like someone who stumbled upon a live hornets’ nest on the front porch and couldn’t decide whether to flail or run or both. “Usually I can go in there and punch with guys,” he said afterwards, but Pacquiao’s power was “…different.” It frightened him. In the corner after the tenth round, Showtime cameras caught him begging his trainer to stop the fight.

In a total of fifty-six rounds against welterweights, Pacquiao lost three.

To the naked eye, Pacquiao seems to have remarkably improved with age. There are many who believe this –and the champion’s camp seems to be encouraging it. Freddie Roach has claimed that his style went into hyperspace after the Marquez rematch, but he is honest enough to admit that he is not above insisting on catch-weights to weaken the opposite corner; nor is he above cherry-picking to protect his fighter and maximize profit. Every welterweight opponent to a man was handed a contract only after Roach was satisfied that the threat posed was minimal. De La Hoya, he said before the fight, was shot. He saw the damage that Margarito did to Cotto’s psyche and Cotto was next. He watched Clottey’s films, including his subtle quit job against Cotto and concluded that Clottey is “not very good.” Margarito was broken down by Mosley, who made it clear that Margarito could no longer cope with speed. Pressure mounted for Pacquiao to fight Mosley after that but Roach declined. "Shane came to the gym twice to ask me to let him fight Manny," he said in February 2010, "I told him no both times, and both times for the same two reasons: First, there isn't enough money there, and second, you're too good a fighter." After Floyd Mayweather defeated Mosley, Roach changed his mind.

No conqueror is above finding advantages. Fighting Harada fought outside of Japan only three times and never in defense of the world bantamweight title. His defeat was the product of a miscalculation. Lionel Rose was a hand-picked, last-minute replacement who fought the champion on a slide, weaved under winged shots, and met his aggression with hard counters. Harada was bleeding by the eighth round and dropped in the ninth before losing a clear decision. Rose had the right answers to the question of Harada’s style.

COMPLICATED ANGLES                 
                                                                                                                                Pacquiao’s style is no less answerable than Harada’s, it’s just more complicated.

Most boxers are right-handers with a conventional stance who are acclimated to fighting other right-handers with a conventional stance. They are about as comfortable fighting a southpaw as a New York driver would be on an English roundabout. Portside angles and movements are confusing enough to require the temporary rewiring of muscle memory –whether you’re behind the wheel or behind the gloves. Pacquiao’s advantage against welterweights has not been his southpaw stance so much as the failure of his opponents to adjust to it.

The first rule for conventional fighters facing southpaws is to keep their lead foot outside of the southpaw’s lead foot. Not one welterweight heeded this rule with any regularity. Featherweights did. Marquez came out aggressively and was knocked down three times in the first round of their first fight. By the second round, he reverted back to his natural state as a counterpuncher and remembered the formula for defeating southpaws. Things got better and he fought to a draw. During the rematch four years later, Roach was alarmed enough to scold Pacquiao: “Get that [right] foot outside [of his left foot],” he said, “don’t follow him!”

In 2005, Morales defied the expectation that stand-up boxers don’t fare well against swarmers because he applied old remedies and smart tactics. It is no coincidence that the only fight where he consistently moved to his left and kept his lead foot outside of Pacquiao’s lead foot was the only one he won. This move opened up Morales’s advantage on two fronts.

First, it naturally set his right heel in line with the southpaw’s chin; and the straighter a right fist travels, the sooner it arrives at the target.

Second, Morales’s lead foot blocked Pacquiao from moving to his right.

Future challengers should be warned: When Pacquiao moves to his right, he becomes a destroyer. As a southpaw, he moves in that direction at an inward angle and so is placing himself closer to the target. He is therefore better able to punch through the target. This is why most of his knockdowns and knockouts happen when he is moving in that direction or is set at that inward angle. That’s not all. In order to counter him the opponent must first turn and reset –meanwhile his face is getting mashed by leather crashing in from a blind angle. It’s a simple stroke of genius: The same place that maximizes Pacquiao’s offense minimizes his opponent’s.

Pacquiao is less reckless, more efficient, and his balance has improved since he was facing men his own size. However, these adjustments do not explain his domination of world-class welterweights. The explanation is found in geometry, physics, and the failure of his recent opponents and their trainers to grasp what he is doing. They have been too preoccupied with his athleticism to remember a basic truth: Boxing is less about muscles and fast-twitch fibers than it is about accumulated know-how.

UNPLUGGING PAC-MAN  
                                                                                                                                                       That basic truth overrides everything else in the ring. Even Manny Pacquiao is only a punch or a point away from defeat. What follows are principles and plans that, if implemented, can send shockwaves around the world.

1. Never unnecessarily provoke a dragon.
This is not a fighter who should be antagonized. In fact, your strategy should begin the moment you sign the contract. Mosley was courteous to a fault during the pre-fight hype and sought to extend his glove before and after every round during the fight. Who couldn’t notice Pacquiao, a Christian and a practitioner of the Golden Rule, obliging him almost every time? He views what he does as performance art and has, to his trainer’s dismay, gone to some lengths to avoid hurting his challengers. “Nothing personal,” he says repeatedly. Don’t make it so.

2.    Jab to stabilize and destabilize him.
The jab helps overcome any kinetic style. Move to your left when you shoot it and be sure that your left shoulder is up and your chin is tucked in as you do. This will protect against the southpaw’s counters. The jab can stabilize him for you to find him and it can destabilize him so that you can mount an attack. Once he starts feinting, jerking, and moving towards angles in your range, jab hard at his chest. If you can knock him off balance, take advantage of the second or two it takes him to recover.

3.    Ruin his geometry.
Move leftward and keep your lead foot outside of his because you do not want him sliding in that direction –not if you value your good looks or your consciousness. When Pacquiao sought his evil angle on the welterweights, they let him. When Pacquiao sought his evil angle against Marquez and Morales, they had their feet in position to block him. If they didn’t, they pivoted with him. They also threw left hooks to discourage that direction. Steal a page from Fritzie Zivic and step on his lead foot now and then to foil his attempts to move in any direction.

4.    The Right Stuff
If you are in position to ruin his geometry, your right heel will be naturally lined up with his chin. The right hand is the southpaw’s hoodoo, so when he is lined up for it, shoot it. When you throw combinations try to begin and end them with a right. When at close range, try one of Morales’s little tricks: He bent his knees and leaned his head near Pacquiao’s right armpit, then looped right hooks up and over. Pacquiao couldn’t figure it out.

5.    Divine timing defeats demon speed.
Pacquiao sees everything. He zeroes in on openings from almost any angle; and however narrow or fleeting that opening seems to you is of no consequence, because to him it’s a widening gyre and your world is in slow motion.  Roach laughs at the idea that Pacquiao can be countered by most fighters. He’s simply too fast. Morales put his famous pride aside and accepted this; he accepted the idea that he would not be able to counter in the usual tit-for-tat manner, but he also knew that the way to defeat speed is with timing. He countered Pacquiao’s jab with left hooks; though instead of trying to follow the incoming jab, he anticipated it and threw his left hook with it. It worked.

6.    Fight with controlled aggression.
Neither flee nor flail. Don’t follow him when he springs back or rush him unless he is hurt or off balance. When he swarms in, be brave but not stupid; pivot with him, assume a compact stance and remember to step outside of his right foot with your left foot. Thrust forward into the eye of his offense behind a series of tight shots to the body and head. Move your head at the end of every combination to avoid his counters. When you see him with his arms up high in a frontal guard he is in a defensive mode, so exploit it with uppercuts to split the guard and hooks to land around it.

7.    Set traps.
Pacquiao is an illusionist who is usually a step ahead of his opposition. He will invite a jab and as it is thrown he will counter it simultaneously with a straight left. Oscar De La Hoya and Miguel Cotto could only watch him repeat this tactic with blurred horror, never realizing why it was happening. If he tricks you into getting aggressive, your own forward motion will propel you into a counterblast that you won’t even see. Feinting is a major part of his repertoire. Feint him!

a.    When you see him trying to time and counter your jab, feint the jab, shift left to avoid his counterpunch and come back with your own.
--If he is leaning to your left when he shoots his counterpunch, it means that he is reading you and your right will miss. So, feint a jab, shift left, and shoot a left hook followed by a right.
--If he is leaning left and crouching, use a left uppercut to lift him up, followed by a right.
b. If he springs back, resist the urge to rush in. Feint an attack and as he springs at you, shift your weight onto your back foot and thrust forward with a right.

Be vigilant and prepared –Fighters who know what to look for and what to do once they find it are the ones who end reigns.

Attention underdogs! These answers to the question of Pacquiao’s style are not static; boxing is a dynamic sport and many variables change the game. These answers to the question of Pacquiao’s style are not exhaustive either; though any more will cost a percentage of your purse.

…..


“Unplugging Pac-Man” is dedicated to the memory of the man who once unplugged Fighting Harada –Lionel Rose.


Freddie Roach’s comments about Joshua Clottey are from an article in boxnews.com.ua entitled “Roach: Manny Pacquiao will knock Joshua Clottey out,” February 1, 2010. His comments about Shane Mosley were found in Bill Dwyre’s article “Manny Pacquiao decides to simply fight on,” Los Angeles Times, February 2, 2010.

Springs Toledo can be contacted at scalinatella@hotmail.com.

Comment on this article

FighterforJC says:

The way to beat Pacquiao is simple, it just takes the right type of fighter with the athleticism and durability to do it. To beat Pacquiao, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO FIGHT BACK. As Marquez did, Morales did and Barrera did. The only way to keep Pacquiao's offense in check is with offense,. You have to meet fire with fire. On one extreme is Hatton, who just rushed Pacquiao and forgot about defense. On the other extreme is Mosley, who abandoned offense in favor of defense. But what Marquez, Morales and Barrera in the rematch with Pacquiao all did was trade with Pacquiao whenever Pacquiao was about to get going. It gave Pacquiao something to worry about when he was firing away. Pacquiao is not deterred by strict counterpunching, he's faced more counter punchers who utilized that slick, "African American style," than given credit for, and Pacquiao ate them all up. But the ones who were brave enough to fight back gave Pacquiao the most trouble, at least when he was still weight drained at 125-130. Obviously, one way to beat Pacquiao is by being several weightclasses bigger than him. Natural middleweights like Martinez are big and strong enough to keep Pacquiao at bay without having to slug with him. Around his weightclass, however, I don't see anyone really being able to compete with him outside of Mayweather. Although, I do see Tim Bradley giving Pacquiao a run for his money because of his speed and grittiness. Bradley-Pacquiao could very well be a repeat of Agapito Sanchez vs Pacquiao and I think Pac may have trouble with Bradley's lack of size.

Radam G says:

YUP! They fought back against a starved, lacked-of-food-and-water fighter, FJC. You fight Da Manny back, and he will thrashed that arse 100 percent of the time. Fighting is what he loves to get down with. Fighting fire with fire is a whole lot of MYTH and ______. And the middleweight Martinez is just about as much hype as Long Paul Williams and more amateurish. Styles makes fights. Da Manny would kayo Sergio Martinez's amateurish-fighting arse in four rounds or less. Knocking his HYPED-UP arse is not yet worth the risk. When the money is SUPER BIG and RIGHT, Da Manny will knock that long-da-tooth sucka straight OUT.

Marquez managed to survive against the straved-and-drained PacMan. This is why so many people have BLINDED themselves into not seeing that Da Manny whup Marquez's arse TWICE. If Marquez wins tomorrow, Da phat, well-feed BIG Manny is going to kayo Marquez come November. A time dat all ya sucka will remember. Then all the blind cats and haters will come up with another alibi.

Well it is no textbook way to fight any fighter, especially a superfast, hand-hitting southpaw. And there are exceptions to every rule. The copy above about how to fight a southpaw is for how you fight a stereotypical typical one. That above jive does not work against SOUTHPAWS of the caliber of Hector "Macho Time" Camacho, Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker, Michael "Master of Misery" aka Double M" Moorer, Slappy Joe Calzake [name misspelled], Manny 'PacMan" Pacquiao or even Winky Wright. You can put your left foot outside his right foot all you want, and it will not stop his fast hands from tapping that arse. You can right lead a sucka all that you want and end getting the fudge knocked out. Southpaws always know what conventional fighters are going to do. It is left-handed people who adjust to the world, not the reverse. There is no special way to beat a southpaw, just as there is no special way to a conventional fighter. You fight every fighter individually. Everybodeee and dey momma are unique in there own special way. Holla!

Real Talk says:

Nice Springs Toledo, good points an I agree with most of what you said right about up until the last part about those combos you mentioned, don't know about those but that's just me. @ Radam G, you think the Manny is invincible but he;s not. Marquez dogged him twice with superior science (especially the lead right) and Terrible Morrales beat him with a good jab and heart. The world knows this even you do though you choose to be in denial. I got Floyd giving him a boxing lesson like no other cuz the skills, sharp shots, ring generalship, IQ, speed, slickness, pocket game, conditioning, pot shots, smothering, timing, inches and let's not forget your favorite........drum roll please...........the shoulder roll and heart and toughness will be too much. Pac has never face a true master boxer of that caliber and when he face the closest thing to it....MARQUEZ ...he took 2 L's. Might take another one. Looking forward to the Prodigal son returning to claim the throne in 2012. Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather!!!! Yeah I said it WHAT!!!!!! GET sOME ....all uv yas!!!! Whoever !!!! DUECES!!!! POOF!!! I'm outta here. REAL LIVE!!!!

Radam G says:

Wow! Real Talk, c'mom, MAN! That is just plain ol crazy TALK! The only one who I think is invincible is the cat who protected a ho, could come back from the dead, and that ho was the first to see him and reported that he was back. Then doubting Thomas started calling the ho a lie, then Jesus show up and told him to shut da fudge up.

As far as Da Manny and Marquez dogging him -- everybodee and dey momma has an opinion. What counts is the SCORECARDS! Da Manny is going KAYO Marquez next time out, and you will still have an alibi. Everybody does. It is call self denials. But it ain't nothin' but luv! I'm reminded of when I thought that I could outrun my wife. But I was drunk and running in place and didn't know it. My point is, is the best of us can be fooled by passion and optical illusions. Marquez has fooled many of people with his way of getting his arse whupped. Dude has lost five times, but most say that he has lost only once to Money May. YUP! RIGHT! Well, Da Manny is gonna up Money May again. Then like always, every hater and dey momma will say that Money May beat Marquez, and Da Manny "is fighting leftovers." Holla!

the Roast says:

The JMM card will be on a live free stream on www.toprank.tv

Real Talk says:

@ Radam G, that ho you speak of is rumored to be Jesus wife....who's really on optical illusions. Pacquaio has yet to up Money May with the acception of the crushing KO of Ricky Hatton but didn't Floyd crack that china first?.........yeah. Leftovers, Oscar leftovers, Cotto, leftovers, Clottey leftovers, Cheato, leftovers, Mosley, leftovers.....and last but not least Marquez whom they've ducked and robbed for how long now .......drum roll please......LEFTOVERS!!!! Who's the real cherry picking king? I really don't have time to go into details but like Makaveli said...you can tell them people you roll with whateva you want, but you n I know what's going on. PAYBACK!!!!! Anything in the dark will come to the light. Dueces

Radam G says:

Don't believe rumors. [One should always read and learn for himself.] Jesus was not married. He just saved that lady of the night from the wacky, fake, religious knuckleheads who wanted to stone her. If they would have been as Jesus and one of his true followers, they would not have thought in such a sick way. And "Doubting Thomas," he just wanted some. Hehehehe! Da Manny has shown Money May up BIG TIME in the fight department, moola department, fans department and entertainment department, PERIOD! [Being in self denial never change hardcore reality and actuality.] Da Manny's television commercials are reaching around the world. Where the ones about Money May? They are hard to find even on the internet. Da fight purses of Da Manny have reached 40mil. Money May just fibs about making BIG MOOLA, even though he cannot pay the tax man. He has yet to make a fight purse of more than 28.5 mil that he made for barely getting by -- on a split decision -- Big Money Oscar.

All is good. Da Manny is my peeps. Money May is my boy. As Sugar Ray Robinson was, so is Money May. CLEVER! Thus making him, one of the greatest pugilistic illusionists EVER! SRR stayed away from 98 percent of the fighters who were difficult, so has Money May. Boxing is the theatre of the unexpected, so these things are heavily accepted by those in da know. SRR is probably laughing his a$$ off behind those Pearly Gates at every living soul, who thinks that he didn't know how to play and pay da game. It's all about ducking danger and biting off "leftovers." His mold has not been and won't be broken for a lot of "slick-fighting African Americans." Da game is prizefighting and gettin' butts to the fights to pay you, not pridefighting to get naive and well-meaning fans and fanfaronades to foolishly defend you. I bet SRR laughs at those guys defending him, just as Money May does in real time on earth. And as he says, "They ain't da one fightin' for me. F__K 'em, as long as they pay, so that I can get paid." Real Talk, you can holler at Money May on Twitter. Sometimes he'll answer.

I'm reminded of somebody wanting you to believe in Santa Claus, when they know it is 98 percent fantasy. Ninety percent of the houses on the mainland of the United States don't even have a way dat a fat-a$$ dude in loud red with a star-white beard can land on their rooftop with a slade being flown by noisy-a$$, wide-eyed reindeer. WTF! American airbombers would scramble and blow SC and the reindeer arses right outta da sky! Jinglebell, jinglebell! KABOOM! Hehehehehe! Little Yanky kids would be crying like MUTHAbrags dat Uncle Sam killed Santa, da rednose reindeer and da brown noses ones too. Hehehehehe!

The game of boksing is STRONG in making fanfaronades accept and hang on to optical illusions and mass confusion, so it can be like a thief in the night pickpocketing dose suckas born every minute and controlling their minds, because it's so easy to feed bullspit to their big, ole behinds. Hehehehehe! Balderdash one will never get from me. Hoodwinkling and bamboozling are not da Radam G's game. I luv my good name. I'm straight up with the REAL and I know da DEAL. And I ain't tryin' ta' make nobodeee kneel! Or serve 'em a bulls**t meal. Holla!

crottyruh says:

I hope Floyd read this, drop everything and fight Manny.

brownsugar says:

The recipe is simple,... lateral movement and keep the distance... Keep Pac reaching and turning. doesn't take a genius...just a someone who can move and box and be willing to put in the work for a grueling fight.

Radam G says:

PacMan will kayo Money May -- EARLY!!! Theories go outta da window once one steps in that squared jungle. Holla!

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

Well said "FighterforJC" and "Real Talk." Radam G, I love your passion for the sport, but you are going to be disappointed if "Money and "Pac Man" ever fight each other. Mayweather is technically the better fighter and he will surely use his 5 to 7 inch reach advantage and keep Manny at the end of his jab all night. When he isn't utilizing the jab, he will be pot shooting Manny. To get somewhat of an idea of how Mayweather would fight Manny and utilize his size advantage, look no farther than Mayweather vs. Marquez. It was jab, jab, jab, and shoulder roll counter right all night. Oh, and according to Forbes, Mayweather was the second highest paid athlete in 2010 behind Tiger Woods. Mayweather made over $65 million with only one fight and no endorsements and Woods made $75 million primarily due to his endorsements, so Manny isn't on Mayweather's level yet when it comes to making money. Also, this is America and everbody is entitled to their opinion, but once again I have to disagree with Radam G on SRR. Sugar Ray Robinson is greatest boxer of all-time and most boxing experts and students of the game agree with that opinion. Name me someone better if he isn't the greatest? In closing, Manny is good for the public image of boxing, but he has been protected and handled very well. I would love to see him fight Mike Jones, Andre Berto, or Tim Bradley next if a fight with Mayweather can't be made. I think that two out of three fighters that I just mentioned could beat Manny on any given night. Holler!

the Roast says:

Oh boy, here we go. I'll worry about who wins the superfight if they ever sign it. One or the other could look bad or just ok and that would swing everyones opinion. @Shoulder Roll, Mike Jones is less than a nobody, Berto is coming off a loss and Bradley would just BOOM bust open Pacman's eyebrow. If they cant make the Matweather fight Manny should go after Sergio. Go big then go home.

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

[QUOTE=the Roast;7958]Oh boy, here we go. I'll worry about who wins the superfight if they ever sign it. One or the other could look bad or just ok and that would swing everyones opinion. @Shoulder Roll, Mike Jones is less than a nobody, Berto is coming off a loss and Bradley would just BOOM bust open Pacman's eyebrow. If they cant make the Matweather fight Manny should go after Sergio. Go big then go home.[/QUOTE]

Hey Roast, I love your post on this board, but do watch boxing, or do you WATCH and analyze boxing! Mike Jones isn't a nobody, he is a skilled undefeated welterweight prospect that is close to forcing a title match. Berto lost, but was highly competitive and I would rather see Pac Man fight him than fighters past their prime. The Bradley fight would probably be the toughest fight out of the three for Pac Man. Say what you want, but Bradley has the toughness and "win at all cost" mentality to beat Pac Man by "technical decision" because of cuts forced by head butts lol, KO, which is highly unlikely because he isn't a power puncher, or a unanimous decision because of his skill and ring generalship.

the Roast says:

@ShoulderRoll, Mike Jones does not have a notable win on his resume. Get back to me when he beats someone of note. Jones needs to be more active and more impressive. There is no demand for this fight. Berto lost a close one but Manny cant fight a guy coming off a loss. Not good for business. If Berto can win his next fight impressively he is back in the mix. Bradley should have fought Khan. Why he chose not to, I dont know. If he had won vs Khan by KO, he would have been first in line to challenge Manny. Manny doesnt need any of these guys. They do not sell tickets. Manny needs Floyd and if that cant happen, fight Sergio for history. I like your input and keep on posting Shoulder!

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

[QUOTE=the Roast;7962]@ShoulderRoll, Mike Jones does not have a notable win on his resume. Get back to me when he beats someone of note. Jones needs to be more active and more impressive. There is no demand for this fight. Berto lost a close one but Manny cant fight a guy coming off a loss. Not good for business. If Berto can win his next fight impressively he is back in the mix. Bradley should have fought Khan. Why he chose not to, I dont know. If he had won vs Khan by KO, he would have been first in line to challenge Manny. Manny doesnt need any of these guys. They do not sell tickets. Manny needs Floyd and if that cant happen, fight Sergio for history. I like your input and keep on posting Shoulder![/QUOTE]


Well Roast, there is a high probability that we won't see either one of those fights (Martinez or Mayweather), especially the Martinez fight. You might not recall it, but about two or three fights ago the Pac Man camp was contemplating fighting Yuri Foreman, but quickly changed their mind because Freddie Roach stated Foreman was too big. Not only did they fear Foreman's size, but also his style, which is that of boxer that uses his range and size to fight on the outside. Now, if they feared Foreman because of size and style, do you really think they would be crazy enough to fight Sergio Martinez? Roach is very smart and would never allow that fight to happen! On the other hand, the question I keep running through my head is will Floyd truly dare to be great? Muhammad Ali would have had the mentality that steriods or no steriods, I'll bust Pac Man's a$$. He would have demanded a fight with Pac Man, but this is a new generation and the mentality of the fighters of today is different than yesterday's fighters. I think Floyd is a lot smarter than most people give him credit for being, so it wouldn't suprise me if the fight actually happens in 2012. "If he takes the test, my son will put his a$$ to rest (Floyd Mayweather Sr.)."

Grimm says:

A classical type of boxer, with reach, snap in the jab, a tough guys mindset, skill and tactical knowledge - that´s what it takes. Pacquiao have, for long, feasted on a diet of fighters seemingly different from one another, but all with one thing in common - they haven't been of the old school, and have all succumbed to his intensity, frequency and constant pressure. Problem is, the old school boxers don't seem to be around. And yeah, I fear that the one to man to beat Pacquiao is Floyd - and that the fight will be a frustrating piece.

FighterforJC says:

@sushi roll defense: I think the word you're looking for to describe Floyd is "cowardly," not "smart." As I like to quote, Ray Leonard said that for $40 million, he would give his opponent the steroids himself. Mayweather is hoping for Pacquiao to show major signs of decline or else to lose to somebody else.

Radam G says:

Wow! When a woman, who's 4-foot-11 lies down to get on the nasty with a baller, who is 6-foot-11, all things are even. [Just ask da ballers, big-money makers...none fakers.] Back in da day, when a moola-____ dude like me -- a legit 5-foot-6 and 1/2 -- got "Jungle Fever," and wanted to get it on with a 6-foot, long-legged mahagony-colored, bad mama-jama, all was even, and I tore dat a$$ up. Hehehehehe!

Don't give me the mythology and bullsh*tology about reach and height and all type of other bullspit. Money May doesn't believe that syet, and nobody who been an elite boxer believes that jive. Reach and height and other type of fanfaronade's syet have never and won't ever stop the smaller-and-shorter man's dominance over wacko beliefs about Goliath-and-Bluderbore like fighters. Besides, Da Manny and Money May are the virually the same SIZE.

Money May being much BIGGER and much LONGER than Da Manny is just HYPED-UP media promotion trickery and exaggerated bullsh*t to get those suckas born every minute into those paid seats and behind those paid PPV screens. Some shoulder broke suckas should quit believing the Ebonican hullabaloo and balderdash, and come around da game and da athletes. Everybodeee and dey mommas, who are in and around da game, know you have not been around da game or in da know when you start making Money May into a GIANT over Da Manny. [Money May and I look one another straight into the eyes flat-footed.] You oughta ask somebodeee. Money May is a little-a$$ fart, who luvs to play with the minds of his nuthuggers, groupies and fanfaronades. His father Pops Joy May, even calls him a punk-a$$ midget N-word. You're full of sh*t, Mr. Should Roll Defense. And dat is yo' cyberspace game, and ya have a complete right to it. IF you could, you oughta come in and around the real-life space of boxing and it's personalities. Holla!

Radam G says:

Shoulder Roll Defense is caught up, and cannot accept the reality of actuality. In head-to-head competition, we know the ______ whupped da arse of the _______ umpteen times. Holla at Homicide Henry Hank, Sandy Saddler, Kennedy McKinney and Sugar Shane Mosley, just to name a few. Go back as far as 75 years and see it for yourself. Sorefoot Shane wanted to quit because of a baby scrath. But at least Money May is smart enough to stay outta dat squared jungle, and let his Uncle Roger image up ___ about Pinoy "A-side Meth." Holla!

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

I find FighterforJC and Radam G hillarious. I just have one question for both of you. What are you going to stay when the fight happens next year and Mayweather wins a unanimous descision in a fight that is considered boring because it is a one sided boxing clinic? You are correct Radam G, Mayweather isn't much taller than Pac Man, but he is the naturally bigger of the two frame wise and he has a a 5 inch reach advantage on Pac Man (72 inch to 67 inch). If you know boxing, you have to admit that a five inch reach advantage in the hands of skilled boxer can be dangerous, especially when he is also as fast as his opponent and has a higher boxing IQ. Floyd walks around naturally at 150 plus pounds and naturally grew into being a welterweight/jr. middleweight size fighter, but Manny needs supplements and possibly steriods to fight at welterweight. Size and skill matter and a good big man usually beats a good little man, which was the case when Mayweather jr. shutout Marquez over 12 rounds and made him look like a little kid in the ring with a man. Contrary to what FighterforJC says, it is Pacquiao that better hope that Money May grows old over night, because if he hasn't, it will be business as usual

crottyruh says:

@Shoulder Roll D.... how can Floyd pot shot up to the 12th round when is he is dead by the 2nd? Do you really think that shoulder roll will work on Pac? Don't expect Pac to fight like he did with Mosley. If and when Floyd sign that contract, that's his death wish.

FighterforJC says:

@sushi roll defense: I don't dwell on the woulds and coulds like Mayweather's fans do, I only dwell on what did. And unlike Mayweather fans, I actually want the fight to happen. Pacquiao fans have the firm belief that Pacquiao must win his fights in the ring and not in the internet forums.

Radam G says:

I'm with FJC. Shoulder Roll Defense, you remind me of a broke d*ck dawg. He ain't got syet, but he's still a hawg. Money May will not even look good against a natural right hander -- Vicious Victor Ortiz -- who will be shift punching da snot outta dat money-broke arse. Neither you or Money May ain't got yall moola right. This is why you have a need to be obsessed.

Once again, don't sell me any media-hyped-up sh*t. I know what time it is. From the armpits to the end of the middle fingers, Money May and da Manny's reach is virually the same. But if the night in question comes about, Money May's reach will be about 10 inches shorter because of that ancient-arse shoulder rolling bullsh*t, which works on non-busy, lazy-arse fighters. Everytime Money May rolls back that makes his reach SHORTER and just RIGHT for a SHIFT punch. Every times he two steps, that put him out of range to straight counter, so he comes in with a kangaroo hook, which a straight punch or punches in bunches will beat every time. Everytime Money May head drop south and fold, KABOO! KAPOW! Da sucka is blinded from side punches coming from the north and east.

If you knew boxing, you would know this. Don't pull any Money May groupie jive on yours truly. I was born in game, as Money May was. And I know bullspit when I hear or read it, and I know bullsh*t when I see or smell it. GOOD TRY! Your cyberspace optical illusions are ______. I'm finish with this. Time to move. Holla!

Radam G says:

I'm reminded of how Reggie Sanders fudged Money May up at the beginning of Money May's career. ESPN is holding on to that bout and hiding it in its archives for some reason. That shoulder rolling jive had Money May in a bee hive. Sanders, though he lost the bout, he cut Money May up and made him bleed like a dawg and swill like a hawg. Big Floyd was in jail, but saw the bout from his cell. He called Uncle Roger and cussed his arse out, and told him to neverr match "Lil' Floyd against a southpaw again" until he got out. Maybe this long-ago scare is what is keeping Money May wondering and sidelining his arse against da Manny. MOVIN' ON! Holla!

Real Talk says:

Floyd UD or TKO cuts Pacman to peices. Eeeeeeeew boint boint!!!! Three knock downs, no extra man. Game over. Dueces

the Roast says:

@Radam, as John McEnroe once said, "you cannot be serious!!" No way chin in the air Ortiz beats Mayweather. No freaking way. We must make a side bet. Also, what the hell happened to Floyd hater Isaiah? I almost miss reading all those Kenducky Fraud Mayrunner witticisms. Almost. I hope Isaiah didnt fall in a wood chipper down on the Indiana farm like in Fargo. That would suck if he went out like Steve Buscemi. Or Bubba Busceme.

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

I guarantee Radam G will make an excuse when Ortiz loses on September 17th. The kid is too green behind the ears and isn't skilled enough to handle Mayweather. Experience and skill will triump over youth and power that night, and you can take that to the bank! Also, some of the posters on this site that are anti-Floyd act like he is one dimensional and should know better. What makes Floyd great is his ability to adjust to the fighter in ring with him, thus breaking him down mentally and physically. As I have mentioned before, there are fights in which Floyd barely uses the "shoulder roll," but still shuts his opponent out. Look at the Judah fight and you will see that Floyd did not use the "shoulder roll," but primarily used the traditional high guard orthodox stance. He also only used the "shoulder roll" in spots against Mosley and not at all against Gatti. The bottom line is that he is a multi-dimensional fighter capable of fighting any type of fight or style in order to get a victory. On the other hand, Manny is a one dimensional boxer and can only fight coming foward. The truth hurts FJC, Radam, and all the other Mayweather haters, but it will set you free.

FighterforJC says:

[QUOTE=Shoulder Roll Defense;7993]I guarantee Radam G will make an excuse when Ortiz loses on September 17th. The kid is too green behind the ears and isn't skilled enough to handle Mayweather. Experience and skill will triump over youth and power that night, and you can take that to the bank! Also, some of the posters on this site that are anti-Floyd act like he is one dimensional and should know better. What makes Floyd great is his ability to adjust to the fighter in ring with him, thus breaking him down mentally and physically. As I have mentioned before, there are fights in which Floyd barely uses the "shoulder roll," but still shuts his opponent out. Look at the Judah fight and you will see that Floyd did not use the "shoulder roll," but primarily used the traditional high guard orthodox stance. He also only used the "shoulder roll" in spots against Mosley and not at all against Gatti. The bottom line is that he is a multi-dimensional fighter capable of fighting any type of fight or style in order to get a victory. On the other hand, Manny is a one dimensional boxer and can only fight coming foward. The truth hurts FJC, Radam, and all the other Mayweather haters, but it will set you free.[/QUOTE]

What makes Floyd great is his ability to avoid the toughest challenges out there, which is why instead of seeing names like Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Pacquiao and Paul Williams (at least when he was a welter and perceived to be the real deal) on his record, you have names like Baldomir, Judah and Gatti. And since Manny is so "one dimensional" and can only fight coming forward (although a funny thing happened on the way to Dallas when Pacquiao boxed circles around Margarito all night long, just like he did against De La Hoya. The truth doesn't hurt for you, sushiroll, because you avoid it. lol), I STRONGLY suggest Mayweather ought to fight him now for the EASY money before Pacquiao loses to some bum. But I think Mayweather knows better. Fortunately for him his minions are mindless. Mayweather's career will always be remembered for the would'ves and could'ves, but he never did. ALso, I find it funny that Pacquiao rose to the top without the need to bash Mayweather. Now that Mayweather's been long forgotten by everyone except his most arduous fans, the ONLY way Mayweather can climb back up is by trying to bring Manny down with false accusations. Nobody ever talks about Mayweather unless he bashes Pacquiao.

Radam G says:

I guarantee you that Shoulder _____ _____ is full of sh*t and see and has imaginary play-idiots, who are boxing greats. The bodies of humans age -- usually age approporite [word misspelled] -- but their minds can become stuck on dumb and stagnated in juvenile years. Dude sounds like a ____ on a playground. Anybody who knows boksing and me, knows that I don't make excuses. Excuses are for weaklings, cowards and bytches. [Reminds you of Lil' Floyd. He's my boy, but it is what it is.] I stand completely by what I post 100 percent of the time. IF a joker cannot comprehend it or want to twist it, that it is on him and the nutcase rats who go off that cliff for his Pied-Piper a$$.

"Green" is mean and can whup that arse on scene. Especially when that arse has become long in da tooth and just fight two times in going on five years. The imaginary boxing knowledge of Shoulder d___h__ ain't worth a hill of beans in dat squared jungle to Money May. Besides, Money May -- in his own words -- would not want anything from that ______. He's already said that he doesn't like know-it-all-talkin' _______ in cyberspace.

Should Roll Defense is just a long-time Ebonican extremist instigator -- under his latest pseudonym -- trying to get an angle for this new Universe and a way where he can send it into chaos like in the old Universe. It ain't gonna work. Money May is not fighting Da Manny, because he knows what time it is. And da sucka Money Broke -- I mean May -- may just pull outta fighting Vicious Victor O. Don't be surprised to hear about a phantom injury that Money May will get in training camp. This bout has been on sell for a month. BUT WTF! Tons of tickets remain. Holla TWICE! Lil' Floyd doesn't want dat arse on ICE. And now not even his groupies, fanfaronades and nuthuggers, want to pay to see him borely play. Holla!

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

I think you and FJC are foolish haters, but you aren't crazy. I'm with "Real Talk" Radam G. I would be happy to place a bet with you regarding the up and coming Mayweather vs. Ortiz fight. Put your money where your mouth is! If the Pac Man vs. Mayweather fight happens next year, holler at me FJC and I'll be happy to take your money also! I promise to donate your money to charity.




[QUOTE=Radam G;7997]I guarantee you that Shoulder _____ _____ is full of sh*t and see and has imaginary play-idiots, who are boxing greats. The bodies of humans age -- usually age approporite [word misspelled] -- but their minds can become stuck on dumb and stagnated in juvenile years. Dude sounds like a ____ on a playground. Anybody who knows boksing and me, knows that I don't make excuses. Excuses are for weaklings, cowards and bytches. [Reminds you of Lil' Floyd. He's my boy, but it is what it is.] I stand completely by what I post 100 percent of the time. IF a joker cannot comprehend it or want to twist it, that it is on him and the nutcase rats who go off that cliff for his Pied-Piper a$$.

"Green" is mean and can whup that arse on scene. Especially when that arse has become long in da tooth and just fight two times in going on five years. The imaginary boxing knowledge of Shoulder d___h__ ain't worth a hill of beans in dat squared jungle to Money May. Besides, Money May -- in his own words -- would not want anything from that ______. He's already said that he doesn't like know-it-all-talkin' _______ in cyberspace.

Should Roll Defense is just a long-time Ebonican extremist instigator -- under his latest pseudonym -- trying to get an angle for this new Universe and a way where he can send it into chaos like in the old Universe. It ain't gonna work. Money May is not fighting Da Manny, because he knows what time it is. And da sucka Money Broke -- I mean May -- may just pull outta fighting Vicious Victor O. Don't be surprised to hear about a phantom injury that Money May will get in training camp. This bout has been on sell for a month. BUT WTF! Tons of tickets remain. Holla TWICE! Lil' Floyd doesn't want dat arse on ICE. And now not even his groupies, fanfaronades and nuthuggers, want to pay to see him borely play. Holla![/QUOTE]

FighterforJC says:

@sushiroll dfense. What, that's the best you could do? Completely ignore the IRREFUTABLE facts I just laid down on Floyd's fraud career as a welter? lol. Ot answer your question, it is of my opinion that Ortiz is a bum. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat Floyd, because as far as I'm concerned, Floyd is a bum as a welterweight as well.

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

[QUOTE=FighterforJC;8010]@sushiroll dfense. What, that's the best you could do? Completely ignore the IRREFUTABLE facts I just laid down on Floyd's fraud career as a welter? lol. Ot answer your question, it is of my opinion that Ortiz is a bum. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat Floyd, because as far as I'm concerned, Floyd is a bum as a welterweight as well.[/QUOTE]

If Floyd's career is a joke at welterweight, what is Manny's? Manny fought a weight drained De La Hoya, a damaged goods Cotto, a happy to get a career high pay day survival first minded Clottey, a one dimensional cheater in Margarito, a past prime Mosley, and know a past prime catch weight version of Marquez. Don't get me started FJC on the facts. You are a Pac Man fan and there is nothing wrong with that. I admire him to a certain degree myself, but Floyd has a PhD in pugilism and Manny has a B.A., therefore Floyd is on another level in comparison to Manny and in the ring it would be the Professor (Floyd) schooling the student (Manny). Game recognizes game in any facet of life, remember that. "If you don't know, now you know........(Notorious B.I.G.)."

FighterforJC says:

[QUOTE=Shoulder Roll Defense;8035]If Floyd's career is a joke at welterweight, what is Manny's? Manny fought a weight drained De La Hoya, a damaged goods Cotto, a happy to get a career high pay day survival first minded Clottey, a one dimensional cheater in Margarito, a past prime Mosley, and know a past prime catch weight version of Marquez. Don't get me started FJC on the facts. You are a Pac Man fan and there is nothing wrong with that. I admire him to a certain degree myself, but Floyd has a PhD in pugilism and Manny has a B.A., therefore Floyd is on another level in comparison to Manny and in the ring it would be the Professor (Floyd) schooling the student (Manny). Game recognizes game in any facet of life, remember that. "If you don't know, now you know........(Notorious B.I.G.)."[/QUOTE]

DLH was the one who pursued Pacquiao, it was DLH's idea to fight at welterweight and make Pacquiao jump TWO weightclasses to fight him. If DLH was so weight drained, they should've made Pacquiao the favorite. Nobody was accusing DLH of being drained before the fight. And as I've pointed out several times before, DLH was OVER the welterweight limit when he weighed in that they had to rig the scales. HBO mentioned that Roach said Pacquiao weighed at least 3 pounds heavier on their scale at the hotel than on the official scale. That means the scales were rigged in order for DLH to "make weight." HBO realized their mistake and minutes later covered it up by claiming DLH weighed the same on the unofficial scales. And Cotto was and is among the top 3 welter/super welters who Mayweather avoided. "Damaged" goods my a$$, what does that make Baldmoir, having 9 losses prior to fighting Mayweather? Or Mosley, having 5 losses prior to fighting Mayweather and not having fought for a year and a half? Or Judah, having been savagely KO'd by KT and embarrassed by Baldomir prior to fighting Mayweather? Say what you want about Clottey, but he was among the top 3 welters as well and was considered a big strong welterweight that would test Pacquiao's legitimacy at the weight. Margarito, cheater or not, terrorized the welterweight division and would still kill Mayweather today. Mayweather has not fought ONE elite welterweight with the exception of Mosley, who was washed up, old and inactive. Pacquiao fought Mosley as a tuneup bout wand everybody knew it, while when Mayweather fought Mosley, Mosley was considered to be Mayweather's biggest threat ONLY because he has fought nothing but chumps as a welterweight and not so much due to Mosley's capabilities at that stage. You can bash all of Pacquiao's opponents at welterweight as you want, but you'd have to check your conscience and intelligence out the door to claim that Mayweather fought better opposition in Carlos Baldomir and Zab Judah and Gatti. The elite welters of this era are Cotto, Margarito, Pacquiao, Mosley, NOT Baldomir, Judah and Marquez. It's funny how the self proclaimed greatest fighter in history managed to avoid the elite welters for 5 years.

Radam G says:

That jive____won't ever go away. He gets off thinking about Money May's missing cojones. Anyway, I'm in "America's Finest City," hanging out and getting ready to holla at Comic Con with my boy L-L-Cool-J. Yall know who he is. He and I are also fans of Money May. I goin' ta spit somethin,' somethin!'

[B][/B]"MAYWEATHERS ARE SUPERBAD-ARSE BOKSIN' MACHINES. BUT THEY HAVE BAD GENES. WHEN THEY GET INTO THEIR MID-30S, IN DAT SQUARED JUNGLE, A YOUNG LION CAN CRUSH 'EM LIKE JELLY BEANS." Holla!

Money May is in deep kimshee. He can get into gym shape ALL DAY. But in dat squared jungle, things aren't as easy anymore. And he is now the prey. He was superslick at 24. That was along time ago. At 34, he'll no longer be able to have his way. Money May has made a mistake. On his long-in-da-tooth arse, Vicious Victor is gonna be on it like mocha frosting on chocolate cake. A serious ass thrashing, Money May may take. He's gonna to feel like he's in dat squared jungle being strung by a vicious young rattle snake. Yall bettaaaaa learn what time it is -- FOR GOD'S SAKE! [B][/B]Holla!

brownsugar says:

I think ShoulderRoll has made a very valid point.. Age eventually defeats everyman..but with Floyds vast experience and ability to adjust on the fly.... his unparalleled ring inteligence still makes him a serious force to be reckoned with...not many fighters can display Floyds underated determination..when faced with adversity. Floyd gets stronger under fire...not the other way around..when pressed he'll brawl trade and weather the storm...........is he aging ? yes ....but I don't think he's done yet...

FighterforJC says:

[QUOTE=brownsugar;8120]I think ShoulderRoll has made a very valid point.. Age eventually defeats everyman..but with Floyds vast experience and ability to adjust on the fly.... his unparalleled ring inteligence still makes him a serious force to be reckoned with...not many fighters can display Floyds underated determination..when faced with adversity. Floyd gets stronger under fire...not the other way around..when pressed he'll brawl trade and weather the storm...........is he aging ? yes ....but I don't think he's done yet...[/QUOTE]

LOL. Which alternate universe are you talking about? The one where Floyd fought Cotto, Margarito, early 30's Mosley and Pacquiao?

brownsugar says:

The alternative universe where Pac beat up the starved busted up remnants of the men you mentioned.

FighterforJC says:

[QUOTE=brownsugar;8125]The alternative universe where Pac beat up the starved busted up remnants of the men you mentioned.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps Pac should transport himself to the universe where Carlos Baldomir, Arutor Gatti and Zab Judah are considered the most feared, most elite welterweights. lol.

Also, I hope that's not your picture. I have nothing against it personally, but I don't like to attack people personally. As long as there's no face to put to the screennames, to me everyone is fair game and doesn't really exist. Now you're tying my hands.

brownsugar says:

Wow Saint...er I mean F4JC,.... you've been around long enough to know that brownsugar ain't nobodies lady... I'm a bonafide dude,..... I really can't believe picture of a female has you feeling uncomfortable or restricted in your comments. I'm far more concerned with what you can do with a wooden cross, some white bed linen and can of gasoline than what you can do on keyboard.

I probably wouldn't have responded to your post if I hadn't been off for a week or having enjoying the outdoors.

But I come back and the house is filthy with racist garbage and inuendo everywhere from you and your boy(s)... (you know who you are)

you can comment about the person in the picture if you want... but she's far more intelligent than I could ever be and far less restrained... mess with her at your peril.

We've had these Mayweather vs Pac discussions before for several years now... and quite frankly it's getting tired and redundant... Pac is still my dude too... awesome fearless and capable... but Floyd still has something special to offer himself... and needs no additional defense from me... lets see what he can do against a strapping young lion like Ortiz.. Then we'll see who's living in an alternate universe.

FighterforJC says:

[QUOTE=brownsugar;8132]Wow Saint...er I mean F4JC,.... you've been around long enough to know that brownsugar ain't nobodies lady... I'm a bonafide dude,..... I really can't believe picture of a female has you feeling uncomfortable or restricted in your comments. I'm far more concerned with what you can do with a wooden cross, some white bed linen and can of gasoline than what you can do on keyboard.

I probably wouldn't have responded to your post if I hadn't been off for a week or having enjoying the outdoors.

But I come back and the house is filthy with racist garbage and inuendo everywhere from you and your boy(s)... (you know who you are)

you can comment about the person in the picture if you want... but she's far more intelligent than I could ever be and far less restrained... mess with her at your peril.

We've had these Mayweather vs Pac discussions before for several years now... and quite frankly it's getting tired and redundant... Pac is still my dude too... awesome fearless and capable... but Floyd still has something special to offer himself... and needs no additional defense from me... lets see what he can do against a strapping young lion like Ortiz.. Then we'll see who's living in an alternate universe.[/QUOTE]

I don't care if the pic is a lady or a dude, I care more about having a face to put with the screenname. If you're a "real" person, you take away my fun.

esteticoutiqvp says:

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estong bicol says:

Nice article, but do you think Pacman's opponent's trainer does not know this? It is easier said than done. I wish Toledo is a welterweight boxer so that he can prove to all what he has written.

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