Clancy's One Strategic Miscalculation "Reinventing Foreman To Face Ali Again" |
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| Written by Frank Lotierzo | |||
| Tuesday, 05 April 2011 10:13 | |||
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With Clancy's passing last week the accolades have been pouring in. Gil loved to talk boxing and I remember having him on my ESPN 1490 radio show in the late nineties after George Foreman lost a controversial decision to Shannon Briggs in what turned out to be George's last fight. We discussed how terrible the decision was in that bout, which led us to talking about the careers of both Foreman and Gerry Cooney. Gil intimated that Gerry Cooney could've been a great heavyweight had he only believed it himself. He also went into how if Foreman could punch as fundamentally correctly as Jerry Quarry, he would've never lost to anyone. Radam G says:
Wow! I never really thought about this sweet science edge-ee-mocation [sic], but Masterscribe weaver F-Lo is super spot on. Da late, Gil "da kill..." vehemently believed that da [Rev.] George F needed to slow down, and this way he would be even most powerful and crushing dangerous. Wow! Some of the best laid plans don't [and didn't] work. This is why I have mad luv for this Universe. Scribes can get those toenails in an adroitly weaved piece and BIG TIME school ya, never try to fool ya. @FJC, Da Manny has never been an attacker. He is get backer and a finisher. When a fighter attacker him, he smothers the attack and fires back, and if his rush hurt you, 95 percent of the time, he will finish you. As you know, only Juan Manuel Marquez managed to survive against the small, starved down PacMan. JaketheSnake says:
Nice argument. But perhaps you're ignoring the great success that Foreman had in his second career, i.e. preacher Foreman. I've always thought the second Foreman was a great fighter, he had underrated defense that got the job done, he had a great chin that could withstand the power of Moorer and Holyfield all night long, and best of all, he knew how to conserve his energy. That defense of putting up your hands away from the face and trying to swat away punches rather than covering up (ala Clottey) takes major balls and chin to implement. Coxs Corner says:
George was never going to be successful fighting at a measured pace as a counter puncher like Joe Louis, he didn't have the hand speed or laser accuracy for it. Foreman was a seek n' destroy bludgeoning slugger with freakish strength and punching power. The 73-74 Foreman was a monster. I agree completely with the main points here that a) Ali only survived the prime Foreman because of his great chin and athleticism. b) that Foreman was at his best as an attacker. It is that version of Foreman that would be feared by most heavyweights had they met in the ring and c) that George was successful fighting at a more measured pace when he was older but he really didnt have a choice and also he was outboxed by Holyfield and Morrison fighting as an older man in that style. The young 25 year old Foreman who came to kill knocks them both out on the same night. Robert Curtis says:
I have to disagree with this the thesis of this article, that it was somehow Gil's fault for Foreman's failures after the Ali loss. Young George had all the physical tools to be the champion of his time, but he needed spiritual guidance or a clinical psychologist more than a trainer in those early days. He had not yet transcended the anger, confusion and insecurities of his youth back then. Despite his early brutish conquests, George Foreman was at heart fragile and underconfident BEFORE he stepped in with Ali in Zaire. After Ali, YG was a wreck. If Dundee had left Ali to train young George, it still would have done no good. A Summit of Giants in Foreman's corner that included Gil Clancy, Cus D'Amato, Archie Moore and Angelo Dundee could not have made young George do what he was psychologically and sprititually unequipped to do at that time. Also, I have to say that this article is poorly timed. I don't want to hear about any of Gil's supposed "failures" just days after his death. I do not appreciate it. Robert Curtis says:
Gil was right. It just took George 20 years to prove it. End of story. FighterforJC says:
Gil was right. It just took George 20 years to prove it. End of story. You're obviously emotionally involved. However, Gil was wrong to try to reinvent Foreman when Foreman still had all the physical tools that took him to the top. If Gil promised George Foreman that he will regain his title no earlier than 20 years, Foreman would've walked out on the spot. It took 20 years and a blown up light heavyweight with no chin for Foreman to regain his title. Radam G says:
Danggit! FJC, you have some mad killer instinct. Hehehehehe! Foreman walking out on the spot and not waiting for "20 more years to regain his..." title from "a blown up light heavyweight with no chin for Foreman..." is coldhearted. [How many other fighters have kayoed Michael "Master of Misery" Moorer at any weight?] Be NICE, man. Let Gil, "da kill, always work and always will" body get cold and bury first. Chillax, GUYS! He who has never been wrong, cast the first stone and just sing a song: "Ya got knocked da fudge out!" I luv this Universe. Agreeing to disagree is da BOMB! I partly agree with both of you guys. Holla! Radam G says:
David Tua in one round. Evander Holyfield in a retirement after the eight. The MM Man, Moorer chin was not that weak, besides Rev. George F and Tua hit him with lucky never-saw-it-coming punches. The luckiest punch in history is Rocky Marciano's sneak right that put Jersey Joe Walcott into a deep sleep. The second one would be Mike Weaver clocking "Big" John Tate in the 15th round. The third, IMHO, is "Big" [Rev.] George Foreman suckering Mike Moorer in to moving in range to get the fudge KO'd. Somebody up in this TSSU oughta give his list of the luckest kayo punches of all time. Holla! FighterforJC says:
Don't forget Moorer was knocked down twice or more by Bert Cooper in the 90's version of Foreman-Lyle. And it wasn't like Cooper caught Moorer the way Cooper caught Holyfield. Moorer cannot take a punch. brownsugar says:
your right FighterforJC,.. but he sure could throw one. the Roast says:
Good call F4JC. Moorer-Cooper was one hell of a brawl. If anyone has not seen this fight go watch it right now. Too bad Cooper got hooked on the crack. If Cooper was active today he would.....get pounded by a K brother. Bert would beat everyone else around, including David Haye. Cooper was like a poor mans Mike Tyson. He scared the crap out of me when he fought my man Holyfield. He was this close to being the champ that night in Atlanta.
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Gil Clancy was the trainer of many world champions and is probably best known for guiding the hall-of-fame careers of Emile Griffith and Rodrigo Valdes during the sixties and seventies. Ironically, both Griffith and Valdes fought middleweight champion Carlos Monzon twice each during his reign as champ circa 1970-77. Griffith, after being stopped by Monzon during their first fight in 1971, lost a disputed decision to him in their rematch 21 months later. Valdes was the only fighter to drop Monzon as champ when he turned the trick during the second round of their July 1977 rematch. So it should come as no surprise that one of the greatest middleweight champs of all-time was given two of the toughest fights during his reign as champ by fighters trained by Gil Clancy.





Agreed. Funny I was just watching Foreman-Young over at YouTube a week ago, along with his fights with Chuvalo and this really tall and skinny guy that resembled a white Steve Urkel. Foreman was a beast against Chuvalo and actually looked quick against that tall guy. Against Young and Lyle he looked very average. I never knew the story about Gil Clancy deliberately changing Foreman's style. I just figured that Foreman was either way past it and didn't have it anymore or he simply never recovered psychologically after the Ali fight and became hesitant. It makes perfect sense. Each fighter is different. Pacquiao is/was an attacker, too, but Roach turned him into a perfect boxer/puncher.