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Mayweather Can Fight Who He Wants, When He Wants...Period!

BY Frank Lotierzo ON August 20, 2014
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Floyd-Mayweather

When Muhammad Ali fought Jerry Quarry in his comeback bout in October of 1970, it was a scheduled 15 round bout because Ali, who was exiled from boxing 43 months earlier for refusing Military induction, left as the undisputed heavyweight champion. The fact that Ali hadn't fought once in 43 months didn't prevent him from fighting a top three contender in a scheduled bout for the championship distance at the time even though he wasn’t the champ.

In April of 1987, former welterweight and junior middleweight champ Sugar Ray Leonard, who never fought one time as a middleweight, challenged undisputed middleweight champion Marvin Hagler for the WBC middleweight title. Leonard had only fought once in five years at that time and hadn't fought in 35 months going into the Hagler bout. Yet he leapfrogged all of the top middleweight contenders in the division who were in-line to challenge Hagler.

Twenty five years after Ali's return against Quarry, Mike Tyson, who like Ali and Leonard - was the biggest star and draw in professional boxing, made a comeback after being convicted of rape in 1992. After not fighting for 50 months, Tyson fought a stiff named Peter McNeeley, who hadn't defeated one ranked fighter in his career, and who was suddenly the ninth ranked contender by one of the alphabet organizations.

When stars are involved all the rules go out the window and any fight can be made if the star really wants it. Nothing is off the table. In 1970, Ali needed a big name opponent to stir the pot for his impending first bout with heavyweight champ Joe Frazier, which to this day is still the most anticipated sporting event in history. Therefore Ali didn't have to work his way up through the ranks and was slotted to fight Quarry, who was a top contender. When Leonard came back to fight Hagler, it was the biggest fight in boxing that could be made at the time. Like Frazier-Ali I, Hagler-Leonard was five years in the making when it finally happened. When Tyson made his ring return in 1995, Lennox Lewis was nursing his bruised confidence after getting stopped by Oliver McCall and losing his title. Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe and Michael Moorer were passing the title back and forth. The heavyweight division needed Tyson to inject interest into it again, and a year and a half after his return Tyson and Holyfield staged the biggest grossing fight in boxing history at the time.

The point is, stars and money control sports, especially professional boxing. Nothing ever gets in the way of making money. Today, Floyd Mayweather is the biggest star and draw in combat sports. That's a certified fact. When I read or am told that Mayweather-Golovkin can't happen because Floyd fights for Showtime and Golovkin fights for HBO, I think it's hysterical. If memory serves me correctly, Bernard Hopkins was a Showtime fighter and Sergey Kovalev is an HBO fighter, yet they're scheduled to fight this coming November. Who'd a thunk it?

Fighters have crossed networks to fight in the past when the money and demand for the fight was off the chart - I submit Lennox Lewis vs. Mike Tyson. And don't say, "Well, it was because of that and so and so did this and someone else compromised on that.” It doesn't matter, the fight was made. Bob Arum and Don King have co-promoted many big fights and cards in the past when the money at stake was in their best interest. Right now Floyd Mayweather is the main man in boxing. He can fight whomever he wants to fight. It doesn't matter what network the other guy fights on or who he is managed and promoted by. If Floyd wants the fight and the public is willing to buy it in record numbers, like a fight with Golovkin or Pacquiao would represent, you better believe it could be made.

Can anyone imagine Mayweather holding a press conference and stating that he wants to derail the Golovkin hype and the fight not happening? Does anyone living in the real world actually think to themselves, no, that can't happen because Mayweather fights for Showtime and Golovkin fights for HBO? What a joke it would be to believe something like that would hold up the fight. Something that could be worked out in a day and it would prevent the fight from happening if that's what Floyd wanted? Yeah right.

I find it confounding that some fans and media don't grasp the concept that Floyd Mayweather can fight anyone he wants, on any channel he wants. I keep hearing, "Well, he's a Showtime fighter, and the other guy is with HBO," or "Promoter A won't work with Promoter B," etc. If Floyd Mayweather wanted to fight Sugar Ray Robinson for the welterweight title tomorrow, somebody would dig Ray up, and one of the sanctioning bodies would give the winner a belt.

There's nothing keeping Mayweather from challenging Golovkin other than himself. Yes, Golovkin is the bigger fighter, but that's the whole intrigue of the fight. Can Mayweather beat a surging monster slightly bigger than him at a time when the monster looks unstoppable? No, I don't believe the fight will happen because Mayweather a) doesn't feel he can beat Golovkin without a gimmick and b) the public won't demand it because they wrongly buy the platitudes that Floyd spouts.

If Mayweather wanted to really step out of the box, he'd challenge Golovkin like Duran challenged Hagler, or Sugar Ray Robinson challenged Joey Maxim or Billy Conn who spotted Joe Louis 30 pounds and challenged him. Then again Floyd has ducked and dodged fighting a guy who actually was the lineal flyweight champion at one time. There's no way in the world he’ll step out of his comfort zone.

Again, I don't believe Mayweather will ever fight Golovkin because he doesn't think he can win nor does he think he has anything to prove. However, some fans do believe he hasn't proven himself to be an all-time great. A great fighter, absolutely, but not one of the greatest of the greats or the "TBE." Challenging and beating a beast like Golovkin would quiet his many critics. In fact challenging and competing with him would go a long way, it's not like he'd even have to win because everyone understands that like Ray Leonard was against Hagler, Floyd would be an underdog.

The point is, Floyd Mayweather can fight anyone he wants to. Nothing could derail that as long as he's the driving force behind it, certainly not a promoter or television network. Mayweather is as he says, "the Money" that drives the sport and nothing gets in the way of that when the chairman of the board wants something. Mayweather represents the biggest payday for anybody he fights, and all involved in the combat and business side of boxing would capitulate to him.

If Floyd wants to fight Manny Pacquiao or Gennady Golovkin, nothing could prevent it from happening aside from his own reluctance. If he truly wanted to shut everyone up, he'd be looking to fight Golovkin, who enters the ring weighing less than recent Mayweather opponent Canelo Alvarez does when he fights. And if he did and lost to Golovkin, he wouldn't get killed for losing. But if he won, what a case he'd have for putting on a hat after the fight that had "OOTBE" (One Of The Best Ever) scripted across the front of it.

Floyd Mayweather can make a fight with anybody he wants to. All he has to do is want to.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

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Comment on this article

Froggy says:

Great article, I hope all Mayweather fans read it !

deepwater2 says:

This article is spot on. Mayweather can fight who he wants to, not who the fans want him to. Fighting MP or GGG is a health risk. Lil Floyd will already be in the HOF so why should he risk his health? He already wears the TBE hat so it is what it is.


Health is more important than anything," Mayweather said. "Because guess what? When my career is over, if I'm hurt because of something that has happened in a fight, I can't come to you and say, 'I need (money).' "

The Shadow says:

This article is spot on. Mayweather can fight who he wants to, not who the fans want him to. Fighting MP or GGG is a health risk. Lil Floyd will already be in the HOF so why should he risk his health? He already wears the TBE hat so it is what it is.


Health is more important than anything," Mayweather said. "Because guess what? When my career is over, if I'm hurt because of something that has happened in a fight, I can't come to you and say, 'I need (money).' "


Deep, good point. But the reason he said health is because he was making the implication that his foe was juiced up. He just can't outright say it because that leads to litigation.

amayseng says:

The article is spot on. Floyd gets what he wants when he wants it.

He does not want to step up and take the challenge .

Why would he when idiots continue to pay him 30 mill plus for a fight.

Froggy says:

The article is spot on. Floyd gets what he wants when he wants it.

He does not want to step up and take the challenge .

Why would he when idiots continue to pay him 30 mill plus for a fight.


Right on Amayseng ! Why would Showtime deny him a fight with Golovkin or Pacquaio ? Would they lose money giving boxing fans what they want for a change ? Me thinks not !

The Shadow says:

Right on Amayseng ! Why would Showtime deny him a fight with Golovkin or Pacquaio ? Would they lose money giving boxing fans what they want for a change ? Me thinks not !


You're right, my Froggy friend. Showtime would love it.

But you're forgetting HBO who has paper on those two guys: HBO! They don't give a flying **** what you and I want, think or desire about those two match-ups.

You think those guys are just going to let them fight elsewhere after signing them up?

Keep in mind that HBO is the same entity that didn't want to show his February fight, yet denied other broadcasters to show it, too!

These are the same guys who really created the divide in the boxing world by boycotting the largest roster of fighters in boxing by far.

And keep in mind, those two guys all signed with HBO after Floyd signed his deal.

And "giving boxing fans what they want for a change?" If it wasn't for Showtime, we wouldn't see Mayweather as active as he's been in about a decade. We'd still see the same once-ever-18 months crap he'd been doing.

Before people started bitching about SHO like Judith Harper bitching about Alan, people need to forget that Showtime, prior to Stephen Espinoza taking the helm, was a second-tier network that only showed reject fights HBO didn't want.

I'm just waiting for people to come out and sue Mayweather and/or Espinoza for the birth of the ebola virus.

cliccmade says:

Mayweather fans should read this? Mayweather fans know this!!!

We also know the reason why the Mayweather / Pacman fight has not happened is because of .....

WAIT FOR IT....

B O B A R U M!!!

Roach has said it!!! Ariza has said it!!! His actions have proved it!!!

When Mayweather was being sentenced and he had no idea how long he would be sent away HE went to the judge and begged them to give him extension to make that fight.

Bob Arum came up with every excuse in the book why the fight couldn't happen.

Look at today....MANNY PACQUAIO has been KNOCKED OUT. His PPV #'s have reflected a decline. And right after Pacman beat Bradley he says tell MAYWEATHER to call us.

The PPV King has to call you? Really? If Bob wanted this fight he would be working day and night to make it happen. He is milking Pacman for all he is worth.

OH and believe me I am not letting PACMAN off the hook.

He just RE UPPED with TOP RANK knowing MAYWEATHER will not fight TOP RANK fighters. Really?

Froggy says:

You're right, my Froggy friend. Showtime would love it.

But you're forgetting HBO who has paper on those two guys: HBO! They don't give a flying **** what you and I want, think or desire about those two match-ups.

You think those guys are just going to let them fight elsewhere after signing them up?

Keep in mind that HBO is the same entity that didn't want to show his February fight, yet denied other broadcasters to show it, too!

These are the same guys who really created the divide in the boxing world by boycotting the largest roster of fighters in boxing by far.

And keep in mind, those two guys all signed with HBO after Floyd signed his deal.

And "giving boxing fans what they want for a change?" If it wasn't for Showtime, we wouldn't see Mayweather as active as he's been in about a decade. We'd still see the same once-ever-18 months crap he'd been doing.

Before people started bitching about SHO like Judith Harper bitching about Alan, people need to forget that Showtime, prior to Stephen Espinoza taking the helm, was a second-tier network that only showed reject fights HBO didn't want.

I'm just waiting for people to come out and sue Mayweather and/or Espinoza for the birth of the ebola virus.


I am very happy to find out I am your friend, Shadow, back at ya ! but I still agree with the article, nobody can stop Mayweather from fighting anybody who will make people money ! Just my humble opinion of course !

The Shadow says:

I am very happy to find out I am your friend, Shadow, back at ya ! but I still agree with the article, nobody can stop Mayweather from fighting anybody who will make people money ! Just my humble opinion of course !


Of course. I love your posts and wish you would post more!

Yes, that premise is by and large correct. While Showtime does have some right of refusal, it's not like he can just go fight Selcuk Aydin -- not if he wants those purses, anyway.

(There's a large misconception about these purses. Showtime's function in the contract is ADVANCING the fight night purse. They then recoup the principal through PPV -- hence the "revenue sharing" agreement they vaguely reported. Which is practically what HBO did. But they just committed to doing it for six fights. SHO doesn't pay for the undercard or anything like that. If you want to look at it another way, it's actually a similar deal framework to what Mayweather offered Pacquiao in early 2012.)

At this stage of his career, his chief objective is to maximize revenues. Whoever's available, able and willing that they feel can garner the most buys is the one they will go with.

Golovkin is a darling among hardcores but until he at least has a fight at 154, there is no point in even discussing it from a sporting standpoint.

Bernard Hopkins insists he can make 160 and has publicly challenged Golovkin for a while now, over a year. Why aren't the writers pushing that?

From a business standpoint, Golovkin's team is simply using the oldest trick in the book: tie your name to the top guy and have the fans run with it.

They know as well as anyone that contracts make it a non-starter. If they didn't they wouldn't have resigned without even fielding offers from Showtime.

FWIW, this is one of the same reasons Mayweather gets furious with other promoters that hatch themselves onto his name knowing damn well that a fight can't be made.

One such example was Lou DiBella -- shortly after the whole 50/50 nonsense with Mayweather and Pacquiao -- completely trolled the media by stating he would give Mayweather 80% of the pot.

I know my fellow Crimson is no fool so I can only assume he thinks the public is. Not even Cotto got 20%.

DiBella knows for a fact that this deal wouldn't even be considered. But he also knows the public will run with any slightest indication of Mayweather ducking so he just reaped the benefits of the publicity it gave him, DBE and Martinez.

And you also saw what happened when Andre Ward called K2's "anyone up to 175" bluff. Only then did they clarify their position and admitted that Golovkin, after all, too is a prizefighter.

The Shadow says:

Mayweather fans should read this? Mayweather fans know this!!!

We also know the reason why the Mayweather / Pacman fight has not happened is because of .....

WAIT FOR IT....

B O B A R U M!!!

Roach has said it!!! Ariza has said it!!! His actions have proved it!!!

When Mayweather was being sentenced and he had no idea how long he would be sent away HE went to the judge and begged them to give him extension to make that fight.

Bob Arum came up with every excuse in the book why the fight couldn't happen.

Look at today....MANNY PACQUAIO has been KNOCKED OUT. His PPV #'s have reflected a decline. And right after Pacman beat Bradley he says tell MAYWEATHER to call us.

The PPV King has to call you? Really? If Bob wanted this fight he would be working day and night to make it happen. He is milking Pacman for all he is worth.

OH and believe me I am not letting PACMAN off the hook.

He just RE UPPED with TOP RANK knowing MAYWEATHER will not fight TOP RANK fighters. Really?


Oh, stop it. You're making too much sense. Too much reason. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Do you mean to tell me that the apocalypse will not happen in December of 2012 either?

Oh. I guess it did. #ouch

You're a brave fella. Welcome to the sweetest forum of them all!

Seriously, though, it's just like that. But there's smoke and mirrors everywhere.

Froggy says:

Mayweather fans should read this? Mayweather fans know this!!!

We also know the reason why the Mayweather / Pacman fight has not happened is because of .....

WAIT FOR IT....

B O B A R U M!!!

Roach has said it!!! Ariza has said it!!! His actions have proved it!!!

When Mayweather was being sentenced and he had no idea how long he would be sent away HE went to the judge and begged them to give him extension to make that fight.

Bob Arum came up with every excuse in the book why the fight couldn't happen.

Look at today....MANNY PACQUAIO has been KNOCKED OUT. His PPV #'s have reflected a decline. And right after Pacman beat Bradley he says tell MAYWEATHER to call us.

The PPV King has to call you? Really? If Bob wanted this fight he would be working day and night to make it happen. He is milking Pacman for all he is worth.

OH and believe me I am not letting PACMAN off the hook.

He just RE UPPED with TOP RANK knowing MAYWEATHER will not fight TOP RANK fighters. Really?


How many different excuses did Mayweather make for not fighting Pacquaio before the Bob Arum excuse ? Manny and his trainer have always said they wanted the fight, Mayweather just has excuses ! Just my humble opinion, of course !

The Shadow says:

How many different excuses did Mayweather make for not fighting Pacquaio before the Bob Arum excuse ? Manny and his trainer have always said they wanted the fight, Mayweather just has excuses ! Just my humble opinion, of course !


It's true but the trainer and the fighter don't have the final say.

Mayweather only asked for a blood test. Arum was always a problem. He just got fed up with Arum after all of the nonsense when he tried to make the fight May 5, 2012 and through intermediaries throughout 2011.

He was basically pimping Mayweather, using his name to build fights with no intention of actually making it happen.

Just take a look at this list: http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11512.html

And before thinking the source may be biased, just keep in mind that this is a compilation collected from a variety of independent sources, quoted directly from the horse's mouth.

Glad you're posting Froggy! We need your voice on here more!

Froggy says:

Thanks for the kind words, Shadow !

deepwater2 says:

Its a shame we have to talk about blaming people why the Fight isn't happening. We should be talking about what a great fight it was or it wasn't.

Mayweather can fight who he wants is a fact and Showtime and HBO could come to an agreement if Floyd wanted it. There are many statements from Floyd that contradicts him wanting the fight. MP calls out Floyd all the time and Floyd just thanks Al Haymon and says he hates Bob Arum and won't do business with him.

There really isn't much to say except its sad the Fight is not happening.

tonyastro says:

Right on! Why should Mayweather fight the best out there when he could make just as much money fighting slow one-dimensional fighters! LOL!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=tonyastro;61820]Right on! Why should Mayweather fight the best out there when he could make just as much money fighting slow one-dimensional fighters! LOL![/QUOTE]

Tony, I think you're being a little harsh here. Because that's not true and you know it. He's fought every style there was to fight.

Besides, who out there were there for him to fight in May? (Don't say Pacquiao; we already know that's not reality.) The choice was between Khan and Maidana. Some say Maidana won so it warrants a rematch.

For this fight, I'm sure he wanted Cotto but of course they don't want to give up that belt quite yet.

He's fighting by the same rules and principles as any other fighter (in terms of prizefighting) and the pro fighters on here will co-sign that statement in a second.

But even if it were true that he just fights slow, one-dimensional fighters, let me propose this (hypothetical) scenario to you.

Say you live in LA and you work for premium version of Domino's. Your boss asks you to choose between two tasks:

a) Deliver 10 pizzas to Hollywood for $15,000 in Jack Nicholson's neighborhood.

b) Deliver 10 packages to a Crip-infested section South Central for $15,000.

Which one do you take?

Be honest.

deepwater2 says:

If the pizza delivery man claimed to be the best ever pizza delivery man he would deliver the 10 pizzas to Jack in Hollywood and then drive the 20 minutes or so and deliver the other 10 pizza while avoiding as many crips as possible. Upon return to the pizza parlor, the owner would declare Tony the best ever pizza delivery man of all time because he took on all challenges and delivered the pizza hot and in an entertaining way.

tonyastro says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;61821]Tony, I think you're being a little harsh here. Because that's not true and you know it. He's fought every style there was to fight.

Besides, who out there were there for him to fight in May? (Don't say Pacquiao; we already know that's not reality.) The choice was between Khan and Maidana. Some say Maidana won so it warrants a rematch.

For this fight, I'm sure he wanted Cotto but of course they don't want to give up that belt quite yet.

He's fighting by the same rules and principles as any other fighter (in terms of prizefighting) and the pro fighters on here will co-sign that statement in a second.

But even if it were true that he just fights slow, one-dimensional fighters, let me propose this (hypothetical) scenario to you.

Say you live in LA and you work for premium version of Domino's. Your boss asks you to choose between two tasks:

a) Deliver 10 pizzas to Hollywood for $15,000 in Jack Nicholson's neighborhood.

b) Deliver 10 packages to a Crip-infested section South Central for $15,000.

Which one do you take?

Be honest.[/QUOTE]


You have just as many excuses as Floyd himself. If he were a real warrior he would fight even those that pose a risk to his 0. Ali did it, Leonard did it. Whether he would beat Pacquiao or not is beside the point. He's avoiding Pacquiao like the plague and you know it! He should fight Manny for HIS sake. If he doesn't he'll only be remembered as the guy who ducked Pacquiao.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=tonyastro;61826]You have just as many excuses as Floyd himself. If he were a real warrior he would fight even those that pose a risk to his 0. Ali did it, Leonard did it. Whether he would beat Pacquiao or not is beside the point. He's avoiding Pacquiao like the plague and you know it! He should fight Manny for HIS sake. If he doesn't he'll only be remembered as the guy who ducked Pacquiao.[/QUOTE]

Dude, I understand your passion and I want to see the fight as much as you but that type of simple minded logic doesn't fly here.

I see that you also failed to address anything I said.

1) What excuses did I list? I gave you the reality, the facts. Not fantasy.

2) Why don't you answer the question? Where would you deliver that pizza. Be honest.

3) "When did Mayweather ever duck him? He signed the contract in December '09. Fact.

"Avoiding him like the plague?"

What evidence is there of that except for ignoring a disgusting PR stunt [URL="http://www.toprank.com/news/the-clock-is-ticking-on-mayweather">by Top Rank where the deal they offered was long expired and no other deal had even been discussed?

Another fact: Mayweather offered him a deal, called him out, Tweeted, responded to BS demands from Arum (put up a guarantee! Who's representing you! We need to hear it from Mayweather's mouth!), met with his adviser in Vegas, shoot, he even called the dude directly on the phone. Is that avoiding someone?

How did he duck him? Every time there were ever a dialogue between them, Pacquiao -- the guy who claims to want to fight for free, the guy who said he'd take less, the guy who said he would take the tests -- refused and left the negotiating table.

No matter what people think about it or perceive it, those are the facts.

Again, I appreciate your comment and your input but don't come with that weak deflecting BS about me making excuses. That's boxingscene stuff.

Just answer the question. Would you deliver that pizza to Crip Country or to Hollywood?

As for risking his 0, what do you want him to do? He's better than everyone else. There is no threat to his 0 unless he goes to 168 or 175 where he will probably get injured really badly even in victory. Is that what you want? Is that what he should do?

That has nothing to do with being a "real warrior." It's "real stupid," is what it is.

And when did Ali and Leonard risk everything? When Leonard took on Camacho? Roberto Duran III? Or when Ali took on a novice with less than 10 fights instead of fighting Ken Norton for the fourth time, which split up the heavyweight title for 10 years?

It's kinda like asking the Williams sisters, when they were 1 and 2 by far, to move into the men's ranks because they were too dominant.

Like Brownsugar said, he could go to Mount Olympus and face Zeus himself, outpoint the old the old bastard and people would say Zeus is old and shot.

"Face Lucifer instead!"

It never ends.

deepwater2 says:

Come on Shadow cut T some slack. He has a point , Floyd made many excuses. At the time of the so called offer ,Floyd offered red hot MP a 40 million flat fee with no rights. You wouldn't take that at the time if you were MP either. MP calls Floyd out all the time, while Floyd contradicts himself and blames his hate for Arum for not making the fight.

Is interference of existing contracts even legal?
Any way it's sad we are talking about these things rather then the fight itself. The bottom line is if Floyd wanted the fight it would be happening. It really is for Floyd's sake to take the fight. If not, he may have millions but he will always have the asterisk of not taking the fight. His legacy will be affected in a negative way.

The Shadow says:

Come on Shadow cut T some slack. He has a point , Floyd made many excuses. At the time of the so called offer ,Floyd offered red hot MP a 40 million flat fee with no rights. You wouldn't take that at the time if you were MP either. MP calls Floyd out all the time, while Floyd contradicts himself and blames his hate for Arum for not making the fight.

Is interference of existing contracts even legal?
Any way it's sad we are talking about these things rather then the fight itself. The bottom line is if Floyd wanted the fight it would be happening. It really is for Floyd's sake to take the fight. If not, he may have millions but he will always have the asterisk of not taking the fight. His legacy will be affected in a negative way.


I didn't mean to be harsh to Mr. Tony because I appreciate his input.

That said, what rights did he want? It was $40m upfront, which would've accrued to $45m. That's 2.5 fights worth of pay for him. He should've taken it. (Arum wouldn't have allowed it regardless.)

So yes, if I am Manny and I've wanted to fight someone as bad as I've claimed, if I claim to fight for the fans, for the people to make them happy, and want this guy so bad I'd fight for free (!), then heck yes I take the record purse.

I don't doubt that Manny Pacquiao wants him but it's a moot point when the promoter doesn't. There was no impetus, no incentive for him to do so. If I were Arum, I would've done the exact same thing.

I probably wouldn't have lied so much but deceit kinda comes with the job description; it's promotions! But the bottom line is with my fairly decent understanding of business, financials and margins, I would not make the fight either if I were Arum.

(There's a little known fact with their business relationship. Arum advances a lot of money to Pacquiao in between fights; one million here, two million there. The advance is then deducted from his purse, leaving little left for Manny on fight night. What's interesting about the advance is that Arum funds that with the residual PPV income from cable/satellite that Manny really should be entitled to in the first place. This is one of the reasons a) Floyd left and b) he makes so much more money than Manny, even in fights where their numbers are similar.)

As for Floyd staying silent, Floyd has expressed publicly and privately that he ignored them because he knew they had no intentions of making the fight. If you notice, Deep, they would always talk about Mayweather whenever Manny had a fight signed.

(And the guys on First Take are too ignorant not to realize how disrespectful they are by inviting Manny and an opponent in-studio and then asking them how another guy will do, as if he's just a stand-in, a bump in the road en route to the mega fight.)

The few times they tried to discuss with Top Rank & Co. when both were available, they refused. It's true. And Floyd got sick and tired of it.

All it would do was boost their events by baiting fans with the possible Floyd fight. "They piggybacking off my name," he would say.

To be fair to Arum, I got the impression he kinda thought both parts were in on it, kinda like a "worked shoot" type of thing. "Bait the fans, keep making money and we'll fight when there's nowhere else to go."

Ultimately, you're right. It sucks that we're talking about this BS. We should talking about the hype for their rematch at this stage.

The Shadow says:

Come on Shadow cut T some slack. He has a point , Floyd made many excuses. At the time of the so called offer ,Floyd offered red hot MP a 40 million flat fee with no rights. You wouldn't take that at the time if you were MP either. MP calls Floyd out all the time, while Floyd contradicts himself and blames his hate for Arum for not making the fight.

Is interference of existing contracts even legal?
Any way it's sad we are talking about these things rather then the fight itself. The bottom line is if Floyd wanted the fight it would be happening. It really is for Floyd's sake to take the fight. If not, he may have millions but he will always have the asterisk of not taking the fight. His legacy will be affected in a negative way.


I didn't mean to be harsh to Mr. Tony because I appreciate his input.

That said, what rights did he want? It was $40m upfront, which would've accrued to $45m. That's 2.5 fights worth of pay for him. He should've taken it. (Arum wouldn't have allowed it regardless. I don't think it was interference because Floyd told Manny, supposedly, that he should call Bob and get everyone on the same page.)

So yes, if I am Manny and I've wanted to fight someone as bad as I've claimed, if I claim to fight for the fans, for the people to make them happy, and want this guy so bad I'd fight for free (!), then heck yes I take the record purse.

I don't doubt that Manny Pacquiao wants him but it's a moot point when the promoter doesn't. There was no impetus, no incentive for him to do so. If I were Arum, I would've done the exact same thing.

I probably wouldn't have lied so much but deceit kinda comes with the job description; it's promotions! But the bottom line is with my fairly decent understanding of business, financials and margins, I would not make the fight either if I were Arum.

(There's a little known fact with their business relationship. Arum advances a lot of money to Pacquiao in between fights; one million here, two million there. The advance is then deducted from his purse, leaving little left for Manny on fight night. What's interesting about the advance is that Arum funds that with the residual PPV income from cable/satellite that Manny really should be entitled to in the first place. This is one of the reasons a) Floyd left and b) he makes so much more money than Manny, even in fights where their numbers are similar.)

As for Floyd staying silent, Floyd has expressed publicly and privately that he ignored them because he knew they had no intentions of making the fight. If you notice, Deep, they would always talk about Mayweather whenever Manny had a fight signed.

(And the guys on First Take are too ignorant not to realize how disrespectful they are by inviting Manny and an opponent in-studio and then asking them how another guy will do, as if he's just a stand-in, a bump in the road en route to the mega fight.)

The few times they tried to discuss with Top Rank & Co. when both were available, they refused. It's true. And Floyd got sick and tired of it.

All it would do was boost their events by baiting fans with the possible Floyd fight. "They piggybacking off my name," he would say.

To be fair to Arum, I got the impression he kinda thought both parts were in on it, kinda like a "worked shoot" type of thing. "Bait the fans, keep making money and we'll fight when there's nowhere else to go."

Ultimately, you're right. It sucks that we're talking about this BS. We should talking about the hype for their rematch at this stage.

The Shadow says:

Great Article! Frank really knows his boxing history.


He sure does.

The Shadow says:

Great Article! Frank really knows his boxing history.


He sure does.

stormcentre says:

Of course. I love your posts and wish you would post more!

Yes, that premise is by and large correct. While Showtime does have some right of refusal, it's not like he can just go fight Selcuk Aydin -- not if he wants those purses, anyway.

(There's a large misconception about these purses. Showtime's function in the contract is ADVANCING the fight night purse. They then recoup the principal through PPV -- hence the "revenue sharing" agreement they vaguely reported. Which is practically what HBO did. But they just committed to doing it for six fights. SHO doesn't pay for the undercard or anything like that. If you want to look at it another way, it's actually a similar deal framework to what Mayweather offered Pacquiao in early 2012.)

At this stage of his career, his chief objective is to maximize revenues. Whoever's available, able and willing that they feel can garner the most buys is the one they will go with.

Golovkin is a darling among hardcores but until he at least has a fight at 154, there is no point in even discussing it from a sporting standpoint.

Bernard Hopkins insists he can make 160 and has publicly challenged Golovkin for a while now, over a year. Why aren't the writers pushing that?

From a business standpoint, Golovkin's team is simply using the oldest trick in the book: tie your name to the top guy and have the fans run with it.

They know as well as anyone that contracts make it a non-starter. If they didn't they wouldn't have resigned without even fielding offers from Showtime.

FWIW, this is one of the same reasons Mayweather gets furious with other promoters that hatch themselves onto his name knowing damn well that a fight can't be made.

One such example was Lou DiBella -- shortly after the whole 50/50 nonsense with Mayweather and Pacquiao -- completely trolled the media by stating he would give Mayweather 80% of the pot.

I know my fellow Crimson is no fool so I can only assume he thinks the public is. Not even Cotto got 20%.

DiBella knows for a fact that this deal wouldn't even be considered. But he also knows the public will run with any slightest indication of Mayweather ducking so he just reaped the benefits of the publicity it gave him, DBE and Martinez.

And you also saw what happened when Andre Ward called K2's "anyone up to 175" bluff. Only then did they clarify their position and admitted that Golovkin, after all, too is a prizefighter.



And to a great extent this (particularly in the context of who you fight and how tough the competition is) is why professional boxing is sometimes not as tough as (so called) amateur boxing; particularly at state and country levels.

In "amateur" boxing you don't get to pick who your opponents are and most are not managed.

Imagine Usain Bolt, as a professional athlete, cheery picking who he wanted to run against and then telling everyone he's TBE!!!

The Shadow says:

And to a great extent this (particularly in the context of who you fight and how tough the competition is) is why professional boxing is sometimes not as tough as (so called) amateur boxing; particularly at state and country levels.

In "amateur" boxing you don't get to pick who your opponents are and most are not managed.

Imagine Usain Bolt, as a professional athlete, cheery picking who he wanted to run against and then telling everyone he's TBE!!!


Exactly. The true competition takes place in the amateurs. Gotta be ready for any style at any given time.

flackoguapo says:

[COLOR="#000000">[COLOR="#000000">[COLOR="#FF0000">As for risking his 0, what do you want him to do? He's better than everyone else. There is no threat to his 0 unless he goes to 168 or 175 where he will probably get injured really badly even in victory. Is that what you want? Is that what he should do?



So you think $$May beats em all at 160 my dude? I think Floyd is one of the most genetically blessed TACTICIANS I've ever seen. He adjusts and then the fight pretty much looks the same all the way through after that. It may be true that he goes in without a game-plan, but once he finds his distance and spots, he strictly sticks to the game-plan and doesn't fight with anything else other than how to tactfully beat the opponent(no "pride" to enagage,nothin'). I was watching this Movie "13 Assassins" the other day and one Samurai was described by another as "Not so strong, not as shrewed. But he never gives up. Backed into a corner he won't budge. He won' overplay his hand. He's a man who beats you at the end." It just reminded me of Mayweather because his focus on the fight during the fight never seems to wander. I still do wish he would've fought the fights we all wanted and he has to take some blame for it. I'm not saying all the blame but with all the leverage he has he coulda' made something happen. The "TBE" thing has to stop. The sad part about it is that I would estimate 75% of the people I meet (outside the gym)under 21 think Mayweather is easily TBE. No bueno

The Shadow says:

[COLOR="#000000">[COLOR="#000000">[COLOR="#FF0000">As for risking his 0, what do you want him to do? He's better than everyone else. There is no threat to his 0 unless he goes to 168 or 175 where he will probably get injured really badly even in victory. Is that what you want? Is that what he should do?



So you think $$May beats em all at 160 my dude? Idk.. There's some guys there that might catch em'. I think Floyd is one of the most genetically blessed TACTICIANS I've ever seen. He adjusts and then the fight pretty much looks the same all the way through after that. It may be true that he goes in without a game-plan, but once he finds his distance and spots, he strictly sticks to the game-plan and doesn't fight with anything else other than how to tactfully beat the opponent(no "pride" to enagage,nothin'). I was watching this Movie "13 Assassins" the other day and one Samurai was described by another as "Not so strong, not as shrewed. But he never gives up. Backed into a corner he won't budge. He won' overplay his hand. He's a man who beats you at the end." It just reminded me of Mayweather because his focus on the fight during the fight never seems to wander. I still do wish he would've fought the fights we all wanted and he has to take some blame for it. I'm not saying all the blame but with all the leverage he has he coulda' made something happen. The "TBE" thing has to stop. The sad part about it is that I would estimate 75% of the people I meet (outside the gym)under 21 think Mayweather is easily TBE. No bueno


My man. I infused the 168/175 example to illustrate the absurdness of the expectations. Mayweather probably beats the current middleweight champion but he'd have to take some serious bruises to do it.

He probably would take a lot of damage in any 160 fight.

Just look at how he looks after every fight at 154 even though he wins comfortably -- all bruised up and sore from the mauling and defense.

Even though he blocks a lot of shots with his arms and shoulders, it's still impact on 37-year-old bones on a natural, ectomorph lightweight frame.

Keep in mind, the guy walks around only a few pounds more than Nonito Donaire, Abner Mares and Orlando Salido.

(Go back and watch how he fought Canelo where he had eat a big fat steak meal just to get to 149 on fight night. He only blocked shots on very few occasions where he had to. The rest of the time he just moved.)

And if you notice, it's mostly non-boxing folks -- ie. guys who never took a punch -- who insist he go up to 160. They seem to think jumping weight classes is easy peasy, just a matter of putting on weight.

But it's more a question of bigger guys, more physicality, harder punches.

But it's like he says, people want to see him vulnerable. "They want me to get a bloody nose, a broken rib and then get my hand raised," he says.

Historically, vulnerability in fighters -- athletes period -- is an endearing trait to the public for some reason. I never liked Andre Agassi in 1994 when he was destroying everything.

But after he plummeted outside the Top 100 and came back to win Grand Slams, I was his biggest fan. When Ali was invincible, everyone hated him.

Once he got by on little more than heart, struggling to win 8-9 rounds against guys who wouldn't lay a hand on him 10 years prior, everyone loved him!

That's sports fans for you. Mayweather shows little vulnerability, even when he's in trouble.

That said, I agree with what you said regarding his style. He's very disciplined in there. And once he makes his adjustments, his fights usually look like reruns which prompts observers to downplay his opposition.

If there is something I would blame him for it would be his insistence on never ceding any of his power and control. He initially said he would never give Pacquiao 50/50, yet still did that so I give him credit for that.

But other than that, he wants to be the top dog so he will difficult to deal with anyone who doesn't treat him as the complete A-side.

But then again, Pacquiao has been known to be difficult in 90% of his negotiations for the exact same reasons so it's hardly anything new...

But there is absolutely no reason to place any kind of blame whatsoever on Mayweather for sticking to his guns without a blood test under the circumstances his 14-day compromise was rejected.

10000 million percent blame goes where you know it should.

It's funny, I initially thought Mayweather was the culprit in this too until I started digging and saw what was up beneath all the filthy layers in this whole disgusting saga.

He's guilty of being an megalomaniac/egomaniac, yes, but he's not guilty of ducking Manny Pacquiao. That's a fallacy with no evidence to support it. None. Zero.

If there is, I'd like to see it.

Unless you count refusing to fight someone (who you're 100% convinced is drugged up) insisting on announced testing "ducking."

Because I know for a fact that he was actively trying to talk to the Pacquiao camp through all kinds of representatives, including his uncle Jeff, all throughout 2011 until finally settling on Victor Ortiz.

Skibbz says:

You have just as many excuses as Floyd himself. If he were a real warrior he would fight even those that pose a risk to his 0. Ali did it, Leonard did it. Whether he would beat Pacquiao or not is beside the point. He's avoiding Pacquiao like the plague and you know it! He should fight Manny for HIS sake. If he doesn't he'll only be remembered as the guy who ducked Pacquiao.


That made me chuckle. Whilst I agree that in some circles Floyd will most certainly be remembered as the fighter who ducked Pacquiao, in other circles he will be remembered as a man who was a beautiful boxer with supreme intelligence and physical ability. I don't think Floyd is necessarily avoiding fighters who pose a risk to his 0, he is in my opinion taking fights where he will take the lions share by far against fighters with a bit of hype surrounding them.

You could easily ask why doesn't he fight a Thurman, a Brook, a Porter, Khan, Provodnikov, or a host of 154 fighters ready to step up and take the challenge. Now that would have me scratching my head..

Skibbz says:

My man. I infused the 168/175 example to illustrate the absurdness of the expectations. Mayweather probably beats the current middleweight champion but he'd have to take some serious bruises to do it.


I quote.

The current MW champion is a little known Kazakh fighter with the punch of a mule, skill level of a future HOF'er and the drive and discipline necessary to accomplish any feat he so wishes to undertake. This man is hungry for success, he trains hard and has been from when he was young, amassing well over 400 fights to date, amateur and pro.

Against this dynamited fister stalker, Floyd Mayweather will have no hope of reaching the final bell. He is simply too small and does not possess the physicality to fight off what will be coming his way should these two pugilists dance together. If lesser fighters such as Maidana managed to win 4-6 rounds (although employing a different approach and style to the Kazakh) then you must understand, Floyd Mayweather will hit the canvas and will stay there on his back, unconscious.

Unfortunately, many do not know who this Kazakh HBO favourite is but his name will become known in the near future, and then comments such as yours will receive the due laughter they so seek to provoke. To state that Mayweather beats the current MW champion is a claim of the highest order and should be taken with a tonne or two of salt.

amayseng says:

I quote.

The current MW champion is a little known Kazakh fighter with the punch of a mule, skill level of a future HOF'er and the drive and discipline necessary to accomplish any feat he so wishes to undertake. This man is hungry for success, he trains hard and has been from when he was young, amassing well over 400 fights to date, amateur and pro.

Against this dynamited fister stalker, Floyd Mayweather will have no hope of reaching the final bell. He is simply too small and does not possess the physicality to fight off what will be coming his way should these two pugilists dance together. If lesser fighters such as Maidana managed to win 4-6 rounds (although employing a different approach and style to the Kazakh) then you must understand, Floyd Mayweather will hit the canvas and will stay there on his back, unconscious.

Unfortunately, many do not know who this Kazakh HBO favourite is but his name will become known in the near future, and then comments such as yours will receive the due laughter they so seek to provoke. To state that Mayweather beats the current MW champion is a claim of the highest order and should be taken with a tonne or two of salt.


You Sir are on fire.

The Shadow says:

I quote.

The current MW champion is a little known Kazakh fighter with the punch of a mule, skill level of a future HOF'er and the drive and discipline necessary to accomplish any feat he so wishes to undertake. This man is hungry for success, he trains hard and has been from when he was young, amassing well over 400 fights to date, amateur and pro.

Against this dynamited fister stalker, Floyd Mayweather will have no hope of reaching the final bell. He is simply too small and does not possess the physicality to fight off what will be coming his way should these two pugilists dance together. If lesser fighters such as Maidana managed to win 4-6 rounds (although employing a different approach and style to the Kazakh) then you must understand, Floyd Mayweather will hit the canvas and will stay there on his back, unconscious.

Unfortunately, many do not know who this Kazakh HBO favourite is but his name will become known in the near future, and then comments such as yours will receive the due laughter they so seek to provoke. To state that Mayweather beats the current MW champion is a claim of the highest order and should be taken with a tonne or two of salt.


The current middleweight champion is Miguel Cotto.

Skibbz says:

The current middleweight champion is Miguel Cotto.


Miguel Cotto raided the 160 division at the right moment, swooped in got his 4th div title and will be out as fast as he came in. No, the real champion, the true king of the middleweights is the Kazakh fighter Gennady Golovkin.

deepwater2 says:

Cotto is lineal for the time being but GGG is Rated # 1 at Boxrec with 989 points Cotto is second with 792.

1 Gennady Golovkin 989 30(27)-0-0

2 Miguel Cotto 792 39(32)-4(2)-0

3 Sam Soliman 716 44(18)-11(1)-0

4 Peter Quillin 627 31(22)-0-0

brooklynrules says:

Very well said. Floyd may retire with a goose egg in the lost column and probably eclipse Marciano in doing so but there'll always be that asterisk next to his name that says "Ducked Pacquio and Ducked GGG." I think GGG puts Floyd in the hospital.

brooklynrules says:

Shadow, you sound like the house niggah. Yes, there are lawyer's documents that certainly say that "we have the right of refusal." . Really, are you so white bread? Do u think Floyd Mayweather Jr. gives sh*t about what ShoBox thinks or their documents say? Yes. Floyd wud get sued by Showtime if they objected and he said "F-you, and went ahead and boxed wherever and under whoevers PPV, and yes, Floyd wud probably lose in court in a few years, but Showtime, knowing this, will cave and make special arrangements. I don't know what world you're living in, but it aint Floyds! That niggah duz what he wants; and Showtime is the one dancing to his tune when push comes to shove with Floyd.

brooklynrules says:

I couldn't agree more. Genady would put Floyd in the hospital. When you realize GGG DID NOT BOX Stevens. He boxed when he knocked him down in the 2nd, but Sanchez reminded GGG "no free shots, stay busy" in the beginning of the 5th, but GGG was intent (in his words) " "just broking him." He gave Stevens every opportunity, often going into the phone booth and punishing Stevens so badly that Stevens was pillar to post on the ropes. GGG could have won easy straying in the same aggressive boxing style he employed in rounds 1,2 and 3, but was intent on punishing Stevens, AND DID SO. See my "Idiots Guide to Golovkin-Stevens'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5bjLN60E4A

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Skibbz;61911]Miguel Cotto raided the 160 division at the right moment, swooped in got his 4th div title and will be out as fast as he came in. No, the real champion, the true king of the middleweights is the Kazakh fighter Gennady Golovkin.[/QUOTE]

You may have that opinion of Golovkin that he's the most talented at 160 and that's fine.

But that doesn't change the fact that the middleweight champion is Miguel Cotto -- a guy Mayweather has already beaten.

So not laughable to suggest he can beat him again.

Laughable is the notion to suggest that he can't.

Cotto may leave the division; we don't know. He just captured the real, legitimate, lineal title so unless he loses that or leaves -- which he may -- that is how it will remain.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=brooklynrules;62004]Very well said. Floyd may retire with a goose egg in the lost column and probably eclipse Marciano in doing so but there'll always be that asterisk next to his name that says "Ducked Pacquio and Ducked GGG." I think GGG puts Floyd in the hospital.[/QUOTE]

Ducked GGG? How do you duck someone who's never, ever competed in your weight class and happens to be signed to an exclusive deal with a competing broadcaster?

How exactly is he ducking GGG? Please tell me that.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=brooklynrules;62005]Shadow, you sound like the house niggah. Yes, there are lawyer's documents that certainly say that "we have the right of refusal." . Really, are you so white bread? Do u think Floyd Mayweather Jr. gives sh*t about what ShoBox thinks or their documents say? Yes. Floyd wud get sued by Showtime if they objected and he said "F-you, and went ahead and boxed wherever and under whoevers PPV, and yes, Floyd wud probably lose in court in a few years, but Showtime, knowing this, will cave and make special arrangements. I don't know what world you're living in, but it aint Floyds! That niggah duz what he wants; and Showtime is the one dancing to his tune when push comes to shove with Floyd.[/QUOTE]

Get lost, please.

Skibbz says:

Shadow you're the type of person that only sees the ink on the paper. I can't debate with someone who wishes to blindly hold onto a technicality. Be honest with your friends and yourself in discussion. Cotto is the man who beat the man. Martinez avoided GGG and Cotto will too. Now Mayweather does not want any of GGG either and these are the facts.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Skibbz;62016]Shadow you're the type of person that only sees the ink on the paper. I can't debate with someone who wishes to blindly hold onto a technicality. Be honest with your friends and yourself in discussion. Cotto is the man who beat the man. Martinez avoided GGG and Cotto will too. Now Mayweather does not want any of GGG either and these are the facts.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm the type of person who deals with the facts, not passion; this is probably why you can't.

I wasn't trying to debate with you anyway.

I believe I said Mayweather probably beats the current middleweight champion, who he's beaten before. You called that notion laughable.

Mayweather doesn't want a part of GGG? How do you know, has he gone on the record to say this? Has he told you?

Skibbz says:

I read your comment at 7, and I've only stopped laughing a few moments ago. Shadow, understand that this is a forums, and in a open forums we put forward our opinions - informed opinions if we have them - and discuss and debate with others the points and opinions offered. You said that Mayweather beats the current middleweight champion, and then I nudged you to impress upon you that although Cotto is the [I]man who beat the man[/I], he is not the King of the division, at least not in the eyes of the boxing cognoscenti.

Now if you were to mean Mayweather beats the lineal champion of the division, then it would be harder to disagree. But in my eyes, from my point of view, the middleweight champion is the man at the top of the hill. The man feared most by his peers, the man who sets the standard and teaches the lessons. Now Miguel Cotto has only had one bout in the MW division in close to 40 fights in his professional career. He swooped in and lured the champion into a fight, and took his belt. Fair play to Cotto for his 4 division titles, but is he the king of the middleweights? I think I'd like you to offer your opinion on that question.

And yes Shadow, the reigning Pound for Pound Champion of the World confided in me his fears of an upstart soviet powerhouse, he told me he doesn't believe he has enough Rocky inside of him to face off with the Kazakh in the ring...

thegreyman says:

[QUOTE=Skibbz;61867]I quote.

The current MW champion is a little known Kazakh fighter with the punch of a mule, skill level of a future HOF'er and the drive and discipline necessary to accomplish any feat he so wishes to undertake. This man is hungry for success, he trains hard and has been from when he was young, amassing well over 400 fights to date, amateur and pro.

Against this dynamited fister stalker, Floyd Mayweather will have no hope of reaching the final bell. He is simply too small and does not possess the physicality to fight off what will be coming his way should these two pugilists dance together. If lesser fighters such as Maidana managed to win 4-6 rounds (although employing a different approach and style to the Kazakh) then you must understand, Floyd Mayweather will hit the canvas and will stay there on his back, unconscious.

Unfortunately, many do not know who this Kazakh HBO favourite is but his name will become known in the near future, and then comments such as yours will receive the due laughter they so seek to provoke. To state that Mayweather beats the current MW champion is a claim of the highest order and should be taken with a tonne or two of salt.[/QUOTE]

That made me bawl with laughter. Thank you Skibbz

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Skibbz;62049]I read your comment at 7, and I've only stopped laughing a few moments ago. Shadow, understand that this is a forums, and in a open forums we put forward our opinions - informed opinions if we have them - and discuss and debate with others the points and opinions offered. You said that Mayweather beats the current middleweight champion, and then I nudged you to impress upon you that although Cotto is the [I]man who beat the man[/I], he is not the King of the division, at least not in the eyes of the boxing cognoscenti.

Now if you were to mean Mayweather beats the lineal champion of the division, then it would be harder to disagree. But in my eyes, from my point of view, the middleweight champion is the man at the top of the hill. The man feared most by his peers, the man who sets the standard and teaches the lessons. Now Miguel Cotto has only had one bout in the MW division in close to 40 fights in his professional career. He swooped in and lured the champion into a fight, and took his belt. Fair play to Cotto for his 4 division titles, but is he the king of the middleweights? I think I'd like you to offer your opinion on that question.

And yes Shadow, the reigning Pound for Pound Champion of the World confided in me his fears of an upstart soviet powerhouse, he told me he doesn't believe he has enough Rocky inside of him to face off with the Kazakh in the ring...[/QUOTE]

With sanctioning bodies corrupting the sport by recognizing upwards of five titlists in any given division at any given time, I think it's a very important distinction to make.

Check out Jim Lampley's take on the topic at 33:00. He would be considered boxing cognoscenti, no? [url]https://soundcloud.com/hbo-boxing/hbo-boxing-podcast-episode-17-jim-lampley-interview

Cue the crickets.

deepwater2 says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;62065]With sanctioning bodies corrupting the sport by recognizing upwards of five titlists in any given division at any given time, I think it's a very important distinction to make.

Check out Jim Lampley's take on the topic at 33:00. He would be considered boxing cognoscenti, no? [url]https://soundcloud.com/hbo-boxing/hbo-boxing-podcast-episode-17-jim-lampley-interview

Cue the crickets.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Lamps about ignoring the fake champs I even want to go a step further and go to the original 8 weight classes. The Garcia vs Salka farce should of been ignored by fans but at least for once the sanctioning bodies wouldn't have anything to do with a set up fight.

The Mayweather PPV pathetic undercard has a fight on it that The WBC should of declined,Espinoza should of made an executive decision and said no,that Al Haymon should of advised against,that the champion boxer should of stepped up and said no way am I fighting this guy on an important card.

Leo Santa Cruz is fighting Roman ,who just went Into a 6 rounder in his last fight and is ranked 91, are fighting for the green belt.

How long will LSC carry his sparring mate?

What is the line on this fight? Is there even a line on this fight?

Anyway , there are too many champs out there but GGG is not one of them. GGG is the number one champion at middleweight and Cotto is the lineal champion.

Reminds me when Shannon Briggs was the lineal champion and Lennox Lewis was WBC champ. Briggs did great but was knocked out by Lewis. I see the same thing here with Cotto and GGG

stormcentre says:

I see there's a good old forum dust up taking place between Shadow and D2!!!

Excellent!!




You two are easily two of the most passionate posters here.

In fact there's a few here amongst us - which is good.

Hard not to smile, but perhaps (as the moderator - albeit temporary - I should adopt another stance).



Anyway, the way I see it (the "Middleweight" sweepstakes), it is like this. . . ..

1) Gennady Golovkin is currently the top dawg in light middle.

2) Not Middleweight - yet. There's a few guys to fight before that happens and I have listed some of them here . . . ..

[url]http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16935-Trainer-Sanchez-Says-Now-Is-the-Time-For-the-Top-Guns-Like-Cotto-To-Accept-Golovkin-Challenge

3) Not super middleweight.

stormcentre says:

Speaking of Mayweather, fighting, bumps and bruises, and well skilled (real, risk taking) fights.

Check Mayweather's skooling of Corley in Floyd Mayweather's fight against DeMarcus Corley.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qEOAOc63bc

Truck that Floyd threw out an azz whipping full of skills and mad combinations.

Poor DeMarcus Corley there were times there where he would have been less stunned if he were struck by lightening.

The fight is even brilliant for Roger's comments to Floyd in between rounds . . . "Just keep whipping that azz, but don't go to your right and give that righty Mother Fu%ker anything".

Sometimes we (me too) forget Floyd has - brilliantly - done all this in the lighter weights and has therefore earned the right to change his style, be cautious and consider longevity as he plays fighter, manager and promoter.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;62066]
Reminds me when Shannon Briggs was the lineal champion and Lennox Lewis was WBC champ. Briggs did great but was knocked out by Lewis. I see the same thing here with Cotto and GGG[/QUOTE]

I see the similarities but I don't agree. Cotto just won the Ring + WBC title.

Foreman one the other hand had kept the lineal title for about three years up to this point, avoiding the top contenders (Holyfield, Tucker, Schultz, Lewis, Bowe etc.) by taking on the second-tier heavyweights and subsequently getting stripped of each of his belts.

Cotto just won his from the guy who legitimately won and defended the title. Was Sergio ripe? No doubt. But I won't liken it to that situation quite yet.

But like Lampley said, he may be the most talented guy at 160, but for now he's just a titleholder while Miguel Cotto is the champion -- a right he earned in June. That's really all there is to it.

We can revisit the Briggs comparison in 2017, if he's still sitting on the title by fighting some of the guys Golovkin's been facing.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=stormcentre;62069]I see there's a good old forum dust up taking place between Shadow and D2!!!

Excellent!!




You two are easily two of the most passionate posters here.

In fact there's a few here amongst us - which is good.

Hard not to smile, but perhaps (as the moderator - albeit temporary - I should adopt another stance).



Anyway, the way I see it (the "Middleweight" sweepstakes), it is like this. . . ..

1) Gennady Golovkin is currently the top dawg in light middle.

2) Not Middleweight - yet. There's a few guys to fight before that happens and I have listed some of them here . . . ..

[url]http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16935-Trainer-Sanchez-Says-Now-Is-the-Time-For-the-Top-Guns-Like-Cotto-To-Accept-Golovkin-Challenge

3) Not super middleweight.[/QUOTE]

Ummmm, no, there's not LOL! I may have some overseas trolls but I don't get into no dust ups. Respect the forum too much, care about the trolls too little. Lions don't lose sleep...

Besides, what is there to dispute about my point? Nothing.

Regarding Deepwater, what I think he is trying to say is that he sees GGG as the most talented guy at 160 -- which he's certainly entitled to feel, no doubt -- but the fact remains Cotto just earned the legitimate CHAMPIONSHIP.

And from what I could tell, Deep certainly agrees with that.

(I don't really have an opinion to share one way or another about Deepwater's opinion about the Mayweather undercard aside from pointing out the fact that SHO has nothing to do with the undercard, financially.)

Just like Hatton earned the CHAMPIONSHIP when he beat Kostya Tzsyu.

Floyd Mayweather was easily the best fighter at 140 pounds -- as your video shows -- throughout his entire stay at the division but at no point was he recognized as CHAMPION, which media like Brian Kelly rightfully pointed out.

(Gosh, this is [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz9f7IVTpWM">too easy...)

Regarding the thing I said initially regarding distinctions between mere titlists and true champions, some imbecile decided to infuse some moronic and offensive stance that my belief that Mayweather beats the current champion (who he's beaten before) was laughable.

But that's typical; resort to insults, sarcasm or flight when their intellect betrays them. Someone even called me a "house niggah" when the reality didn't match his bias (then ran for the hills. I'm SHOCKED!). OK, whatever. I'm Uncle Tom, who cares.

Still doesn't change the fact that Cotto's the king at that weight until proven otherwise.

As for GGG, titlist or not, I don't necessarily think he's been proven the best yet. Too many question marks for me that his subpar opposition hasn't answered.

People see a little power and they get all up in arms -- kinda like the Shawn Porter situation.

Just because he blasted out Paulie Malignaggi, people were ready to say he'd beat Mayweather. (An epic mismatch, by the way.)

And I'm not buying that "avoided" talk. There are plenty of guys willing that I'd like to see Golovkin fight not named Rubio, which I have listed before.

What kinda make me scratch my head is that people keep saying he will fight at 154. But can he even make the weight? And no, it doesn't matter what he says. Canelo says he will be at 154 for his whole career. Who believes that?

But if he believes he can make 154, s***, why doesn't he go have a fight there and prove it? Go fight Erislandy Lara, who's challenged you, and pick up a belt. Go take on Austin Trout.

At middleweight, I'd like to see how he deals with Sergio Mora. We won't see that. We will see someone a green Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. beat, though! But this is nothing I haven't said before.

At super middleweight he's going to run into problems. But his promoters are simply doing what any respectable businessman is doing. Building him up gradually so they can cash out with a PPV bonanza.

(If there was one league, we'd see much better match-ups because there'd be fewer guys with investments to protect.)

I honestly can't wait till he fights Andre Ward so everyone comes back down to Planet Earth. Love's been called "blissful insanity" and that's exactly what I see.

But THAT is just MY opinion and little more. People can feel he's the greatest middleweight in history. They're entitled to think that, too. I couldn't care less.

Time will tell.

The Shadow says:

I see there's a good old forum dust up taking place between Shadow and D2!!!

Excellent!!




You two are easily two of the most passionate posters here.

In fact there's a few here amongst us - which is good.

Hard not to smile, but perhaps (as the moderator - albeit temporary - I should adopt another stance).



Anyway, the way I see it (the "Middleweight" sweepstakes), it is like this. . . ..

1) Gennady Golovkin is currently the top dawg in light middle.

2) Not Middleweight - yet. There's a few guys to fight before that happens and I have listed some of them here . . . ..

http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16935-Trainer-Sanchez-Says-Now-Is-the-Time-For-the-Top-Guns-Like-Cotto-To-Accept-Golovkin-Challenge

3) Not super middleweight.[/QUOTE]

Ummmm, no, there's not LOL! I may have some overseas trolls but I don't get into no dust ups. Respect the forum too much, care about the trolls too little. Lions don't lose sleep...

Besides, what is there to dispute about my point? Nothing.

Regarding Deepwater, what I think he is trying to say is that he sees GGG as the most talented guy at 160 -- which he's certainly entitled to feel, no doubt -- but the fact remains Cotto just earned the legitimate CHAMPIONSHIP.

And from what I could tell, Deep certainly agrees with that.

(I don't really have an opinion to share one way or another about Deepwater's opinion about the Mayweather undercard aside from pointing out the fact that SHO has nothing to do with the undercard, financially.)

Just like Hatton earned the CHAMPIONSHIP when he beat Kostya Tzsyu.

Floyd Mayweather was easily the best fighter at 140 pounds -- as your video shows -- throughout his entire stay at the division but at no point was he recognized as CHAMPION, which media like Brian Kelly rightfully pointed out.

(Gosh, this is [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz9f7IVTpWM">too easy...)

Regarding the thing I said initially regarding distinctions between mere titlists and true champions, some passionate poster decided to come at me with some moronic stance that my belief that Mayweather beats the current champion (who he's beaten before, by the way) was laughable.

Must be on that Benzino. Someone even called me a "house niggah" when the reality didn't match his bias (then ran for the hills, like they do. I'm SHOCKED!). OK, whatever. I'm Uncle Tom, who cares.

Still doesn't change the fact that Cotto's the king at that weight until proven otherwise.

As for GGG, titlist or not, I don't necessarily think he's been proven the best yet. Too many question marks for me that his subpar opposition hasn't answered.

People see a little power and they get all up in arms -- kinda like the Shawn Porter situation.

Just because he blasted out Paulie Malignaggi, people were ready to say he'd beat Mayweather. (An epic mismatch, by the way.)

And I'm not buying that "avoided" talk. There are plenty of guys willing that I'd like to see Golovkin fight not named Rubio, which I have listed before.

What kinda make me scratch my head is that people keep saying he will fight at 154. But can he even make the weight? And no, it doesn't matter what he says. Canelo says he will be at 154 for his whole career. Who believes that?

But if he believes he can make 154, s***, why doesn't he go have a fight there and prove it? Go fight Erislandy Lara, who's challenged you, and pick up a belt. Go take on Austin Trout.

At middleweight, I'd like to see how he deals with Sergio Mora. We won't see that. We will see someone a green Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. beat, though! But this is nothing I haven't said before.

I think you're spot on: several guys looking to fight him.

At super middleweight he's going to run into problems, I believe. But his promoters are simply doing what any respectable businessman would do. Building him up gradually so they can cash out with a PPV bonanza.

(Sidebar: If there was one league, we'd see much better match-ups because there'd be fewer guys with investments to protect.)

I honestly can't wait till he fights Andre Ward so everyone comes back down to Planet Earth. Love's been called "blissful insanity" and that's exactly what I see.

But THAT is just MY opinion and little more. People can feel he's the greatest middleweight in history. They're entitled to think that, too. I couldn't care less.

Time will tell.

Froggy says:

The greatest middleweight in history is probably dead ! Most people who know boxing better than I do will likely agree on that ! I think Hagler was one of the top 5 easily and probably Monson, I think he is still alive ! Otherwise I don't remember anyone saying GGG is the best of all time, ask again 10 years from now !

amayseng says:

GGG is not the best in history of the mw division, though he has the tools to be an ATG, will he be one is the question. Hard to see anyone in recent era better than Hagler.

deepwater2 says:

Cotto and GGG can't even be mentioned with the all time great middleweight champions and neither can Sergio Martinez . The marvelous one can and so can Monzon. Harry Greb, Robinson, Fitzsimmons and recently Hopkins and Jones Jr. and a dozen others are head and shoulders above everyone else around today.

You can be a lineal champion but not the best in the division. GGG is the best in the middleweight division right now, no argument. It's not just that he wins against certain opponents it's what he does against the opponents. He obliterates them.Lets see how GGG gets by Rubio because he is a tough guy to just walk through.

Cotto gets all the respect in the world for flattening Sergio M. but the writing was on the wall by observing Chavez Jr. Round 12 and the Martin Murray fights.



Would Floyd fight Cotto at 160 lbs? I don't think so.

Would Floyd fight GGG at 154 lbs ? I don't think so.

amayseng says:

Cotto and GGG can't even be mentioned with the all time great middleweight champions and neither can Sergio Martinez . The marvelous one can and so can Monzon. Harry Greb, Robinson, Fitzsimmons and recently Hopkins and Jones Jr. and a dozen others are head and shoulders above everyone else around today.

You can be a lineal champion but not the best in the division. GGG is the best in the middleweight division right now, no argument. It's not just that he wins against certain opponents it's what he does against the opponents. He obliterates them.Lets see how GGG gets by Rubio because he is a tough guy to just walk through.

Cotto gets all the respect in the world for flattening Sergio M. but the writing was on the wall by observing Chavez Jr. Round 12 and the Martin Murray fights.



Would Floyd fight Cotto at 160 lbs? I don't think so.

Would Floyd fight GGG at 154 lbs ? I don't think so.


Agreed with all of the above.

It will be ashame with GGG, he will lack the proper competition to rate him at his potential. Sadly.

And Cotto won't fight him, although that would be a great PPV event

dino da vinci says:

Historically, the middleweight division has been the deepest in boxing. That can probably be attributed to the fact that the average size man fell within that weight range. (148-160 in fighting shape. It may have since edged north from there.)

Monsters have waged war for that crown. As far as fighters ducking other talented fighters today, that surely wasn't the case yesteryear, when guys would look up, down, left and right at other talent and wanting to prove it was them who was the very best.

Froggy says:

If I am not mistaken, sometimes they would not even wait to have a scheduled bout and would just take it to the street ! I am thinking of possibly the 3 greatest middleweights , Greb, Ketchel, and Walker, of course Robinson is right up there too !

deepwater2 says:

If I am not mistaken, sometimes they would not even wait to have a scheduled bout and would just take it to the street ! I am thinking of possibly the 3 greatest middleweights , Greb, Ketchel, and Walker, of course Robinson is right up there too !

The good ole days. You are right.

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