Bernard Hopkins Weighs In on Golden Boy Situation

BY Bernard Fernandez ON June 03, 2014
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Bernard Hopkins

​The last time Bernard Hopkins registered a knockout in the ring was on Sept. 18, 2004, when he landed a left hook to the liver that put Oscar De La Hoya, gasping for breath, down and out on the canvas in the ninth round of their middleweight unification showdown at Las Vegas’ MGM Grand.

​A decade later, is Hopkins prepared to again knock out the “Golden Boy,” only this time in a business sense?

​Although he insists nothing is etched in stone at this point, Hopkins, who shortly after that watershed victory a decade ago became a limited partner in De La Hoya’s company, Golden Boy Promotions, is dropping broad hints as to where his loyalties lie in the aftermath of Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer’s announcement on Monday that he had resigned that position, effective immediately.

​“It’s got to be run by somebody,” Hopkins said of Golden Boy Promotions’ now murky future. “But it’s going to be very, very difficult for Golden Boy to keep the credibility of the brand without Richard Schaefer.

​“A guy like Richard – and let me say that we don’t always agree on everything – really can’t be replaced. I’ll reiterate: Richard Schaefer cannot be replaced. Things will continue to be run (at GBP), but they won’t – can’t – be the same. Richard is a man who is stern when he needs to be stern, and fair when he needs to be fair. It’s hard to find people like that in boxing. He’s one of the biggest and most respected players there is. Even the people who don’t care for him too much on a personal level have got to respect him when it comes to the way he does his job.

​“Think about it. Who really ran Golden Boy? I’m not talking about popping up in the office once or twice a year. Who was there, doing the deals, on a day-to-day basis?”

​If that sounds like a veiled shot at De La Hoya, the occasional visitor to his own company whose relationship with his onetime close friend Schaefer has grown increasingly chilly, draw your own conclusions.

​“Oscar’s been talking to certain people,” Hopkins said, a pointed reference to the olive branch extended by De La Hoya to his former promoter and more recent adversary, Top Rank founder Bob Arum, with whom Schaefer has adamantly refused to do business. “He’s been tweeting. He showed up at Canelo’s (Alvarez) camp. OK, he’s rededicated, he’s gotten himself together, he’s burying the hatchet (with Arum). Great. But with him doing all that, is anybody really surprised that this thing with Richard happened? The only thing that’s a shock is that it took this long to go down.”

​The ramifications of the De La Hoya/Schaefer split are significant. It was Schaefer who has a close personal and working relationship with boxing’s most bankable fighter, FloydMayweather Jr., as well as with Mayweather’s influential adviser, Al Haymon, whose deep roster of fighters regularly appeared on Golden Boy cards but all of whom were not under contract to GBP. Schaefer’s resignation was quickly followed by an announcement from Leonard Ellerbee, chief executive of Mayweather Promotions, that Mayweather and, most likely, Haymon’s other A-list fighters were also severing relations with GBP. That leaves De La Hoya’s depleted stable with a new lead pony, Alvarez (43-1-1, 31 KOs), who takes on Erislandy Lara (19-1-2, 12 KOs) on July 12 at the MGM Grand.

​Although it is widely presumed that Schaefer, a Swiss-born banker who had no background in boxing until he became De La Hoya’s business manager and then GBP’s CEO, will now partner up with Mayweather, Haymon and Ellerbe, there are legal issues that must be ironed out. For one thing, Schaefer – who signed a contract extension with GBP in April 2012 that Hopkins said “runs until, I think, 2017 or 2018” – remains a shareholder in the company, which could make it difficult for him to join Mayweather Promotions or some other promotional entity until the expiration of that arrangement. In a prepared statement, Schaefer indicated that he will “look forward to the next opportunity,” and that he hopes that opportunity is in boxing, but he also noted that he also is “proud to remain a shareholder, so I have a strong interest in the continued success of the company.”

​For his part, Ellerbe said, “Richard will have a tremendous impact on whatever he decides to do and wherever he goes. We always welcome smart leaders, but I don’t know what his future is.”

​Hopkins has spent his share of time in courtrooms, having engaged in bitter and ultimately litigated disputes with several of his past promoters, managers, trainers and advisers, including Butch Lewis, Don King, Bouie Fisher and Lou DiBella. He has an idea of where all this is headed.

​“You know it’s funny,” he said. “When I joined Golden Boy, people were actually betting that somehow I would find a way to screw it up. But I’m still here.”

​Yeah, but for how long? At 49, Hopkins (55-6-2, 32 KOs), the IBF and WBA light heavyweight champion, is looking forward to another unification matchup, with WBC 175-pound titlist Adonis Stevenson (24-1, 20 KOs). Whether that bout, if it comes off, is under the Golden Boy banner has yet to be determined.

​“I’m not under contract to Golden Boy,” stressed Hopkins, who added that he has spoken recently to both De La Hoya and Schaefer. “No one has asked me to come here or to stay there. I got my own team, a separate team. When all is said and done, I’m going to evaluate everything and decide to do what’s best for Bernard Hopkins. I’m going to try to be fair to everybody, but I got to look out for me first. It’s crucial for me to make the right move, whether it’s with Richard or with Oscar. I worked too hard to get here to do anything else.

​“No matter what, though, what’s going on now between them won’t affect me from getting in the ring and winning another title. I want to continue to unify the light heavyweight division, and with two titles I’m in better position to do that now, regardless of the shakeup. I could even promote my next fight myself. It won’t be an emotional decision. I’m going to align myself with the best, with the smartest, and with whoever can do the most for me at this stage of my career.”

​Hopkins was asked if the timing of Schaefer’s resignation could be interpreted as an attempt to somehow diminish De La Hoya’s induction into the International Boxing Hall of Fame on Sunday. He said he didn’t think so, although Schaefer will not be in Canastota, N.Y., for the ceremony, which also would seem to say a lot.

​“That’s one way to look at it,” he said of the perception some have that Schaefer is intentionally trying to detract from De La Hoya’s Hall of Fame moment. “It’s the easy way to look at it. But let’s keep it real. The last 30 or 40 days, and maybe longer, this thing has been massaged every which way. Is anybody surprised that this thing with Richard happened?

​“But I don’t think too much should be read into the timing. Fights need to be negotiated, deals need to get done, whether it’s Hall of Fame weekend or not. Look, we all have to do what we think is best. I think Richard got to the point where he just couldn’t wait another week to do what he did. He probably felt he couldn’t wait another day.”

Hopkins also said the Showtime/HBO, Golden Boy/Top Rank “Cold War” was “foolish from the beginning. A lot of fans got hurt, and are still getting hurt to this day. They’re missing out on a lot of big fights. But it is what it is.”

There was one more potential surprise offered by Hopkins, who professed admiration for Haymon, who could become part of whatever remains of his twilight as an active fighter. That statement further suggests that boxing’s ageless wonder could soon be parting ways with Golden Boy.

“I have great respect for him, and he has great respect for me, going back to the day when he came into boxing with one fighter, my friend, Vernon Forrest, `The Viper,’” Hopkins said of Haymon, the Boxing Writers Association of America’s 2013 Manager of the Year. “I was on the other side from him when Al was representing Jermain Taylor.

“I don’t have a contract with Al Haymon, but I wouldn’t mind having one because he knows the business and he knows how to make the moves to get you where you need to be.”

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Comment on this article

deepwater2 says:

Pretty easy to see where Hopkins is going with this. Remember Oscar reached out to Hopkins and included him as part owner of the company. Oscar also brought Swiss cheese banker into the sport.Just saying.

“I’m not under contract to Golden Boy,” stressed Hopkins,. Translated = he will ditch GBP as soon as the offer comes up .

“I don’t have a contract with Al Haymon, but I wouldn't mind having one because he knows the business and he knows how to make the moves to get you where you need to be.” Translated = Al you already set up Adonis for me so give me the contract Al!

Boxing is tough inside and outside the ring.

brownsugar says:

Oscar should have become an apprentice to Schaefer instead of letting Schaefer run the show while he was content to make embarrassing headlines.

Schaefer's wife is Mexican and Schaefer speaks Spanish fluently at one point early in his career I almost thought he was Mexican...... He set up the GB Latino boxing network in Mexico which greatly bolstered Gb's revenue.... Oscar should have found a way to be a more integral part of that process.

The only thing Golden at Goldenboy was Richard Schaefer.... the man with the midas touch....or you can call him Gold Finger. Schaefer restructured the entire business while Oscar was one hiatus after another.

The Boxer couldn't keep up with the Banker. They say the legs are the first to go.

Bhop has openly called out to Al after his fights on live television....like a troubled soul calling out to the heavens for a savior on several occassions...(although most notably after the Travoris Cloud fight).

Its understandable Bhop wants to be on the winning team..... Nothing personal just business.

The Shadow says:

Oscar should have become an apprentice to Schaefer instead of letting Schaefer run the show while he was content to make embarrassing headlines.

Schaefer's wife is Mexican and Schaefer speaks Spanish fluently at one point early in his career I almost thought he was Mexican...... He set up the GB Latino boxing network in Mexico which greatly bolstered Gb's revenue.... Oscar should have found a way to be a more integral part of that process.

The only thing Golden at Goldenboy was Richard Schaefer.... the man with the midas touch....or you can call him Gold Finger. Schaefer restructured the entire business while Oscar was on one hiatus after another.

The Boxer couldn't keep up with the Banker. They say the legs are the first to go.

Bhop has openly called out to Al after his fights on live television....like a troubled soul calling out to the heavens for a savior on several occassions...(although most notably after the Travoris Cloud fight).

Its understandable Bhop wants to be on the winning team..... Nothing personal just business.


Bingo, Brownsugar. And for whatever it is worth, he already works with Al Haymon. People are speaking under inhibitions of legal direction so don't put too much weight into what certain people are saying publicly...

Skibbz says:

With the Bobfather controlling the strings in a partnership between him and Oscar, I think they could seriously rival anything that comes out of this situation. Arum is doing serious business and with Golden Boy back in the picture (with all the headlines and publicity) they could get bigger pretty fast. We might enter a period where we get better and better cards as all the players are really starting to compete.

deepwater2 says:

Oscar should have become an apprentice to Schaefer instead of letting Schaefer run the show while he was content to make embarrassing headlines.

Schaefer's wife is Mexican and Schaefer speaks Spanish fluently at one point early in his career I almost thought he was Mexican...... He set up the GB Latino boxing network in Mexico which greatly bolstered Gb's revenue.... Oscar should have found a way to be a more integral part of that process.

The only thing Golden at Goldenboy was Richard Schaefer.... the man with the midas touch....or you can call him Gold Finger. Schaefer restructured the entire business while Oscar was on one hiatus after another.

The Boxer couldn't keep up with the Banker. They say the legs are the first to go.

Bhop has openly called out to Al after his fights on live television....like a troubled soul calling out to the heavens for a savior on several occassions...(although most notably after the Travoris Cloud fight).

Its understandable Bhop wants to be on the winning team..... Nothing personal just business.


If gold finger was so golden at GBP why didn't he sign any of the fighters to multi-fight contracts with GBP?

Oscar will be ok. Boxers get caught doing embarrassing things sometimes. Oscar got blackmailed by some strippers. He did some coke got drunk and played dress up. It's silly but it isn't the worse thing. It wasn't a guy he was caught with. He wasn't beating his wife or kids. He wasn't running a prostitution ring of underage girls. He didn't rape anyone. Boxing is full of second chances and Oscar deserves one.
Oscar hired RS ,he can hire someone else.
The Cold War is coming to an end.

Skibbz says:

If gold finger was so golden at GBP why didn't he sign any of the fighters to multi-fight contracts with GBP?

Oscar will be ok. Boxers get caught doing embarrassing things sometimes. Oscar got blackmailed by some strippers. He did some coke got drunk and played dress up. It's silly but it isn't the worse thing. It wasn't a guy he was caught with. He wasn't beating his wife or kids. He wasn't running a prostitution ring of underage girls. He didn't rape anyone. Boxing is full of second chances and Oscar deserves one.
Oscar hired RS ,he can hire someone else.
The Cold War is coming to an end.


I sure hope it is, we've had to wait for many years but it's better late than never.

oubobcat says:

Pretty easy to see where Hopkins is going with this. Remember Oscar reached out to Hopkins and included him as part owner of the company. Oscar also brought Swiss cheese banker into the sport.Just saying.

“I’m not under contract to Golden Boy,” stressed Hopkins,. Translated = he will ditch GBP as soon as the offer comes up .

“I don’t have a contract with Al Haymon, but I wouldn't mind having one because he knows the business and he knows how to make the moves to get you where you need to be.” Translated = Al you already set up Adonis for me so give me the contract Al!

Boxing is tough inside and outside the ring.


Hopkins has been loyal to Schaefer for quite some time.

I attended the Hopkins-Murat fight in Atlantic City last October. At the weigh in, Hopkins had a birthday ceremony for Schaefer (it was Schaefer's burthday) where he presented him with a cake and all sorts of praise.

As tensions increased at Golden Boy, Hopkins open praise for Schaefer kept going.

Hopkins won't be fighting under the Golden Boy banner again. But he will be fighting Stevenson later this year in an Al Haymon brokered deal. You can go to the bank on that.

riverside says:

Oscar is a Winner!!, I see Ellerbee, and Now Hopkins jumping off the Golden Boy Band Wagon, I can say they are envy of Oscar, IMO. Oscar is gonna be here for a while. What is Mayweather going to do, not fighting under Golden Boy or Top Rank, it will be interesting to see how he does under his own Banner, that is the way it's looking Now.

brownsugar says:

If gold finger was so golden at GBP why didn't he sign any of the fighters to multi-fight contracts with GBP?

Oscar will be ok. Boxers get caught doing embarrassing things sometimes. Oscar got blackmailed by some strippers. He did some coke got drunk and played dress up. It's silly but it isn't the worse thing. It wasn't a guy he was caught with. He wasn't beating his wife or kids. He wasn't running a prostitution ring of underage girls. He didn't rape anyone. Boxing is full of second chances and Oscar deserves one.
Oscar hired RS ,he can hire someone else.
The Cold War is coming to an end.



Oscar is my guy too Deep... Just stating the facts ....Richard was instrumental in building GB up to its current prominence almost single handedly...... And recently he facillitated many of the Hispanic fighters to sign with Al.
If Oscar can keep the ship afloat there doesn't have be any losers in this scenario. Time will tell.

What happened to GB is what frequently happens to any corporation who hires a guy who can do the job better than the any of the current executives and majority shareholders are able to.

In the business world the only constant is ........"Survival of the Fittest".

The players closer to the bottom of the food chain are more vulnerable than the ones on top.
Hopefully Oscar can return to the Top.

Radam G says:

Optical illusions are everywhere. And Big Money Oscar did da double dare. What Swizz cheese is going to do now, he doesn't care.

Wow strange bedfellows are a coming. And BMO and Da BobFather are up high on the mountaintop. Their competition is the in-the-valley bottom drop. And with great inattention blindness, this coming bottom drop has you guys focusing locally on the U.S. mainland.

Globally, Da BobFather, TR, BMO, GBP and HBO are making Swizz cheese, tsAH, TMT and Showtime look like welfare cases. It is a BIG MOOLAH thing -- gone GLOBALLY, babbbbbbbeeeeeee! And outta Asia, The Middle East and Russia. Holla!

The Shadow says:

Not really. Bob is only going to work with Oscar when advantageous to him -- just like in the past. Whereas Oscar will work with him when it's good for "the fans."

That's the difference.

Manny Pacquiao vs. Mauricio Herrera.

Manny Pacquiao vs. Jesus Soto-Karrass. Lol. Imagine that sh*t.

As for any swerve on Oscar's behalf? Lol. That's funny. Dude is not that bright. At all.

I doubt he could swerve Richard Schaefer's son.

Also, keep in mind that this guy flip-flops on the regular. Maybe it's the side effects of being coked up, I don't know...

But in the past few years, he's gone on the record calling Arum senile, then trying to reconcile on Twitter. Then back to hating the guy, in one case oddly longing for Arum's death to come soon.

That's what Schaefer said, too, he can't figure out whether he loves him or hates him. And Bob is oh so shrewd, there is nothing personal there - just business.

And make no mistake about it: Al Haymon is breaded up. TO THE MAX. Dude is a freak of nature, whether people want to believe me or not. Nine-figures worth. Easy.

This freaking guy RAN the music/concert promotional business in his '30s (!), introducing innovations no others could fathom. I the meantime, all the other change-resistant farts who couldn't change with the times, much less agree how to join forces to combat the guy, slowly ceded their position as the guy slowly turned the landscape into what we see today.

IN FACT, the business model of his tours -- similar to Floyd's business model; I'll break it down ones of these days -- has permeated professional sports such as the NBA and made an imprint there!

Remember the NBA lockout? The players were asking for more money, noting how performers would command certain percentages for performing and players -- as the attractions -- felt they were entitled to bigger pieces of the pie.

Haymon pisses people off because he inflates/adjusts their market value by decreasing his profit margins while increasing performer pay -- and this keeping artist, fighter, performer, what have you happy!

Look at this picture:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]111[/ATTACH]

I get why promoters hate him. I understand why performers love him. But I don't get why fans care.

Also, HBO isn't anything on a global scale. Hell, they couldn't even send their announcers to London. Plus, they're a domestic company anyway. Bob Arum is a shrewd guy who will do damage in China, raking in big bucks.

Meantime, Schaefer and Haymon will rule boxing domestically, like they've been doing, and seek to take over Mexico and the Middle East.

There's enough for everyone to play.

Froggy says:

Ricard Schaefer is a back stabber, no more no less !

deepwater2 says:

Looking at that picture I now understand why he gives no interviews and stays in the shadows.

Questions:

If Oscar is not bright why did he hire Schaefer? Or maybe he is not bright for hiring Schaefer? Or maybe he is not bright for letting boxers fight on GBP cards without signing them to contracts?

If Al Haymon prevents the big fights from happening why would the fans like him?

Also if Swiss cheese still has a stake in GBP, why would he work against his interests and go with another outfit to compete against himself?

Is The Shadow one of the unnamed John Doe's 1-8 listed along with Al Haymon on the Subpoenas filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York ?

The Shadow says:

Looking at that picture I now understand why he gives no interviews and stays in the shadows.

Questions:

If Oscar is not bright why did he hire Schaefer? Or maybe he is not bright for hiring Schaefer? Or maybe he is not bright for letting boxers fight on GBP cards without signing them to contracts?

If Al Haymon prevents the big fights from happening why would the fans like him?

Also if Swiss cheese still has a stake in GBP, why would he work against his interests and go with another outfit to compete against himself?

Is The Shadow one of the unnamed John Doe's 1-8 listed along with Al Haymon on the Subpoenas filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York ?


First three questions are rhetorical in nature, I assume? As for your next question.

Al Haymon prevents the biggest fights? Really? Really?!

Last I checked he was instrumental or directly involved in 4/10 biggest fights of all time -- 5 others involve Mike Tyson -- and 4/5 biggest PPV fights (Canelo, De La Hoya, Cotto, Mosley) since he got involved with boxing.

In addition, he's been instrumental in staging the top 2 live gates in Las Vegas EVER and three our of the top four. The biggest projected fight fell apart because one side refused to do drug testing and decided to sue instead of taking the tests.

You can opine as much as you want but the fact is the facts don't support that notion that Al Haymon "prevents the big fights from happening." Not even a little bit. Anyone can say that but that doesn't make it true, simply because the facts prove otherwise.

(And please, don't bring up that pathetically non-commercial matchup of Stevenson-Kovalev. What happened to free will? Stevenson could've stayed if he wanted. That was HIS decision. Not Haymon's. Just because people accept Haymon's offers doesn't make Haymon a bad guy. That makes him an impact player. Remember, others bid for the same guys.)

As for Schaefer's stake in GBP, I'm not sure I understand the question? It's not like Schaefer came back from the future to retroactively include this stake while knowing of his departure (though I wouldn't shocked to hear such a claim lol).

Either way, the scenario of owning stock/shares in one company while working for another is not all that uncommon in business. But let's see how it plays out.

Nope, haha, The Shadow is not a John Doe The Shadow is the bearer of truth and unfiltered fact with no bias beyond what's real. I support what I say with cold, hard facts, figures and nothing else -- just as I just did.

Any opinion injected has the disclaimer of being such. Sometimes emotions, values, beliefs or opinions can cloud one's perception of what's real. In this particular case, the facts speak for themselves.

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/change_management/resistance_change/resistance_change.htm

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Froggy;54368]Ricard Schaefer is a back stabber, no more no less ![/QUOTE]

How so?

The Commish says:

There is no question where B-Hop is heading. GBP, as we once knew it, does not exist any more. Richard Schaefer has joined forces with $$$May, Leonard Ellerbe & the Lordf himself, Al Haymon. I am guessing it will be up to a court--if not the California State Athletic Commission--to decide what happens to the contracts held by Golden Boy with so many fighters.

I just hope Oscar gets to enjoy his IBHOF Weekend.

-Randy G.

samsa says:

There have been reports for months that fighters have been signing with Al Haymon and then fighting on Showtime for GBP without signing long term contracts with GBP. This was clearly a set up for a split - Haymon wants to be able to take those fighters elsewhere, either to an entirely new promotional outfit or (more likely) to a ramped up Mayweather Promotions.

Obviously this happened on Schaefer's watch as GBP CEO (with Oscar apparently in and out of rehab and generally asleep at the wheel), and it looks a lot like a breach of his fiduciary duties to the company paying his salary, particularly if he ends up taking up a position with Haymon or MP once any non-compete clause runs out. By comparison, look at how Arum runs his operation - he'll put a major cash cow offside and lose a big payday rather than lose his long term tie to a fighter (see the JCC-GGG fiasco).

Of course, all business is dirty and boxing is no cleaner than any other, so if Schaefer gets away with it (which he probably will) more power to him. At most he'll have to settle up with Oscar at some stage, in court or at the courtroom door.

What it means for boxing is probably that GBP becomes a shell of its current self and Oscar makes up with Arum to ensure his own survival, but the cold war continues with the Haymon-Schaefer-Showtime axis against the TR-HBO axis.

If this is the way it plays out, I'll be curious to see whether Mayweather Promotions becomes a genuine big hitter (i.e. by tying fighters up with long term exclusive contracts and building its own relationships with the networks) or whether Haymon wants a permanent power shift so the promoter needs the manager and his stable more than the manager needs the promoter. For all his bluster I'm not sure I see Floyd sitting at the negotiating table as an equal with Haymon - maybe with Schaefer on his side he'll do ok, but we have seen how loyal Schaefer is in the long run.

Other than a few pieces of fruit that might get blown off the tree like (hopefully) Pac-Canelo, it's hard to see this leading to better match ups or more competitive fights. If Haymon has in fact been protecting his fighters and trying to convince the public they should want high dollar showcases for his stars rather than superfights, nothing is likely to change.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=samsa;54378]There have been reports for months that fighters have been signing with Al Haymon and then fighting on Showtime for GBP without signing long term contracts with GBP. This was clearly a set up for a split - Haymon wants to be able to take those fighters elsewhere, either to an entirely new promotional outfit or (more likely) to a ramped up Mayweather Promotions.

Obviously this happened on Schaefer's watch as GBP CEO (with Oscar apparently in and out of rehab and generally asleep at the wheel), and it looks a lot like a breach of his fiduciary duties to the company paying his salary, particularly if he ends up taking up a position with Haymon or MP once any non-compete clause runs out. By comparison, look at how Arum runs his operation - he'll put a major cash cow offside and lose a big payday rather than lose his long term tie to a fighter (see the JCC-GGG fiasco).

Of course, all business is dirty and boxing is no cleaner than any other, so if Schaefer gets away with it (which he probably will) more power to him. At most he'll have to settle up with Oscar at some stage, in court or at the courtroom door.

What it means for boxing is probably that GBP becomes a shell of its current self and Oscar makes up with Arum to ensure his own survival, but the cold war continues with the Haymon-Schaefer-Showtime axis against the TR-HBO axis.

If this is the way it plays out, I'll be curious to see whether Mayweather Promotions becomes a genuine big hitter (i.e. by tying fighters up with long term exclusive contracts and building its own relationships with the networks) or whether Haymon wants a permanent power shift so the promoter needs the manager and his stable more than the manager needs the promoter. For all his bluster I'm not sure I see Floyd sitting at the negotiating table as an equal with Haymon - maybe with Schaefer on his side he'll do ok, but we have seen how loyal Schaefer is in the long run.

Other than a few pieces of fruit that might get blown off the tree like (hopefully) Pac-Canelo, it's hard to see this leading to better match ups or more competitive fights. If Haymon has in fact been protecting his fighters and trying to convince the public they should want high dollar showcases for his stars rather than superfights, nothing is likely to change.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm......

Who are you? You sound like you're in the industry. Nice post.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=samsa;54378]There have been reports for months that fighters have been signing with Al Haymon and then fighting on Showtime for GBP without signing long term contracts with GBP. This was clearly a set up for a split - Haymon wants to be able to take those fighters elsewhere, either to an entirely new promotional outfit or (more likely) to a ramped up Mayweather Promotions.

Obviously this happened on Schaefer's watch as GBP CEO (with Oscar apparently in and out of rehab and generally asleep at the wheel), and it looks a lot like a breach of his fiduciary duties to the company paying his salary, particularly if he ends up taking up a position with Haymon or MP once any non-compete clause runs out. By comparison, look at how Arum runs his operation - he'll put a major cash cow offside and lose a big payday rather than lose his long term tie to a fighter (see the JCC-GGG fiasco).

Of course, all business is dirty and boxing is no cleaner than any other, so if Schaefer gets away with it (which he probably will) more power to him. At most he'll have to settle up with Oscar at some stage, in court or at the courtroom door.

What it means for boxing is probably that GBP becomes a shell of its current self and Oscar makes up with Arum to ensure his own survival, but the cold war continues with the Haymon-Schaefer-Showtime axis against the TR-HBO axis.

If this is the way it plays out, I'll be curious to see whether Mayweather Promotions becomes a genuine big hitter (i.e. by tying fighters up with long term exclusive contracts and building its own relationships with the networks) or whether Haymon wants a permanent power shift so the promoter needs the manager and his stable more than the manager needs the promoter. For all his bluster I'm not sure I see Floyd sitting at the negotiating table as an equal with Haymon - maybe with Schaefer on his side he'll do ok, but we have seen how loyal Schaefer is in the long run.

Other than a few pieces of fruit that might get blown off the tree like (hopefully) Pac-Canelo, it's hard to see this leading to better match ups or more competitive fights. If Haymon has in fact been protecting his fighters and trying to convince the public they should want high dollar showcases for his stars rather than superfights, nothing is likely to change.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm......

Who are you? You sound like you're in the industry.

Radam G says:

Don't count on it. Da BobFather and HBO have won. And Big Money Oscar has a ride with them. Holla!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;54386]Don't count on it. Da BobFather and HBO have won. And Big Money Oscar has a ride with them. Holla![/QUOTE]

Yes. "Boxing Superstar" Jesus Soto-Karass will carry Golden Boy Promotions' into the next era of Latin dominance. Oscar better get into some M&A or he's in trouble.

Golden Boy has no fights scheduled. For the first time ever.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]112[/ATTACH]

stormcentre says:

[QUOTE=samsa;54378]There have been reports for months that fighters have been signing with Al Haymon and then fighting on Showtime for GBP without signing long term contracts with GBP. This was clearly a set up for a split - Haymon wants to be able to take those fighters elsewhere, either to an entirely new promotional outfit or (more likely) to a ramped up Mayweather Promotions.

Obviously this happened on Schaefer's watch as GBP CEO (with Oscar apparently in and out of rehab and generally asleep at the wheel), and it looks a lot like a breach of his fiduciary duties to the company paying his salary, particularly if he ends up taking up a position with Haymon or MP once any non-compete clause runs out. By comparison, look at how Arum runs his operation - he'll put a major cash cow offside and lose a big payday rather than lose his long term tie to a fighter (see the JCC-GGG fiasco).

Of course, all business is dirty and boxing is no cleaner than any other, so if Schaefer gets away with it (which he probably will) more power to him. At most he'll have to settle up with Oscar at some stage, in court or at the courtroom door.

What it means for boxing is probably that GBP becomes a shell of its current self and Oscar makes up with Arum to ensure his own survival, but the cold war continues with the Haymon-Schaefer-Showtime axis against the TR-HBO axis.

If this is the way it plays out, I'll be curious to see whether Mayweather Promotions becomes a genuine big hitter (i.e. by tying fighters up with long term exclusive contracts and building its own relationships with the networks) or whether Haymon wants a permanent power shift so the promoter needs the manager and his stable more than the manager needs the promoter. For all his bluster I'm not sure I see Floyd sitting at the negotiating table as an equal with Haymon - maybe with Schaefer on his side he'll do ok, but we have seen how loyal Schaefer is in the long run.

Other than a few pieces of fruit that might get blown off the tree like (hopefully) Pac-Canelo, it's hard to see this leading to better match ups or more competitive fights. If Haymon has in fact been protecting his fighters and trying to convince the public they should want high dollar showcases for his stars rather than superfights, nothing is likely to change.[/QUOTE]

Very good post.

Many things said there I was about to write myself.

If things do get bitter enough with this between Richard and Oscar that only a courtroom will do - and this is exactly what I was thinking - then Schaefer's fiduciary duties to the company paying his salary, I think, will and should come into question.

How can Schaefer (based on what we’re currently being told) say he has operated in GBP best interests given what’s been happening with Al Haymon?

After all, one of the biggest draws for a promoter, that defines their ability to deliver what fighters want and therefore sign them up, is access to cable/televised networks and their budgets and audiences.

Fame, winning, titles, recognition and cash is what it’s all about when you're a fighter.

And GBP’s advantage is, or was, their connection with Showtime.

That, and/or using it, to sign marketable talent would have been - or so I imagine - one of GB’s and therefore Schaefer’s primary focuses and/or objectives; therefore making it one of Schaefer's fiduciary duties to the company paying his salary - Golden Girl.

I think Schaefer would find it very hard to explain how - if he indeed did it as we are having it inferred to us - facilitating Al Haymon’s fighters’ access to Showtime’s network (and budget) without them being directly signed to GB is aligned with his fiduciary duties and responsibilities; particularly if it has been consecutively occurring.

And particularly whilst Oscar has been away “ill”.

Perhaps there’s more to this - and there usually is - but it’s hard to imagine how Richard or anyone other than Al Haymon doing that is in the best interests of GBP.

As for Bernard’s comments, he certainly doesn’t sound awfully loyal to Oscar whom clearly helped him get a leg up in the business world.

I wonder how long Oscar will remain clean with all this pressure, and how pliable it will make him in 3B’s hands?

Skibbz says:

All that being said I think it's important to note that when money's involved people will always come with a smile even if they have a dagger behind their back. In the days of the Crusades when Muslims and Christians were slaughtering each other, trade blossomed between the two sides.

If it's in HBO's interest (which I believe it to be) then they will gladly welcome Oscar back, especially if Arum is by his side. Money makes people forget and set aside their differences for their dreams of avarice. Competition is fierce in this business and a big player in the sport just doesn't disappear into the mist after the captain jumps ship. It'll take some patching up but Oscar will get it done.

deepwater2 says:

"(And please, don't bring up that pathetically non-commercial matchup of Stevenson-Kovalev."

Shadow, as a boxing fan ,do you not want to see Stevenson-Kovalev?

As far as pathetically non-commercial, the numbers speak for themselves. Millions would tune in.

Skibbz says:

I don't think it would miss the bullseye D2. Everyone's been talking about Stevenson and Kovalev for some time. When it looked like it was on the cards I was excited to see a potential fight of the year. Canada would buy in, Kovalev's wide fan base in the US would buy in that's just North America. Kovalev has a good following in Europe and they'd be tuning in too. Not every fighter can sell millions of pay per views but that's not what matters to us fans.

Even if they're fighting in a barn and all we get is black and white coverage that's still better than the fight not happening. All we ask is that like in any other competition sport, the supposed best face the best. Who else would the other have to face who could give them a bigger spectacle? Bernard? Pascal? Shumenov? Brahmer...?

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;54415]"(And please, don't bring up that pathetically non-commercial matchup of Stevenson-Kovalev."

Shadow, as a boxing fan ,do you not want to see Stevenson-Kovalev?

As far as pathetically non-commercial, the numbers speak for themselves. Millions would tune in.[/QUOTE]

The numbers do seak for themselves. Compared to the biggest fights, it is utterly non-commercial.

Here's why:

It's a premium cable fight, at best. The total gross most likely wouldn't even match 50% of the live gate alone from the bottom 10 of biggest fights in Las Vegas. And that's the truth. So it doesn't even come close to falling into the "biggest fights" category.

It would generate about 2.5% of what the biggest fight did; a fight Al Haymon, ironically, was instrumental in putting together, which ALSO featured two of his biggest clients in Garcia and Matthyse squaring off -- something critics said Haymon would never allow.

So yes, the numbers and the facts do speak for themselves. There's a big difference between the "biggest fights" and "most anticipated among hardcore boxing fans." HUGE difference.

In fact, most of the money, outside of whatever license fee a broadcaster would dole out, Stevenson brings more to the table with his drawing power in Canada.

Millions wouldn't tune in domestically. Maybe a million and change. At best. The rest would come from Canada.

Realistically, the fight probably isn't bigger than GGG-Quillin, Adrien Broner-Gavin Rees -- heck, Adrien Broner vs. anyone! -- or any Chavez Jr.-Vera.

Like I said, anticipated among vocal hardcores doesn't equal commercially big.

You know what's also a bigger fight? A Hopkins-Stevenson matchup for the UNDISPUTED light heavyweight championship of the world! Isn't that what fans always ask for?? One champion, unifications etc. etc.?

Even the biggest Kovalev fan wouldn't come argue that Kovalev has greater name value than Hopkins....

You ask a good question whether I as a fan would watch. Great question.

Yes, I'm mildly curious. But as far as me as a fan, I would much, much rather see Hopkins vs. Stevenson and I've felt that way since Stevenson iced Chad Dawson.

And I obviously LOVE the sh*t so as a fan, I'm getting EXACTLY what I want!

For one, I like when they one champ in one division; I welcome the rare opportunity to see all major belts unified -- something that hasn't happened since 2006.

Two, how often do we have a chance to see history made like Bernard has the chance to make?? I love that type of stuff.

Thirdly, I'm super fascinated every time Hopkins fights. I love the suspense of seeing whether this old fart can dismantle another young champion YET AGAIN!

Every time he does this, he has a chance to promote clean living, discipline and setting goals. Quite frankly, these are issues I believe are important to promote.

Lastly, Bernard is old. He's done in a few years. Throughout the years, I believe he has earned the right to fight for the undisputed light heavyweight championship at 50 (!!) without being slandered, vilified and criticized for doing so by impatient hardcores who want instant gratification.

Surely, everyone would agree with that, that he's earned that?! I love history and records. That's what sports is about to me. To me, that has much greater appeal than seeing two big punchers duke it out (and we already saw that fight in September).

So as far as being a big fight, not really. A fight I want to see? Not more than I want to see the one that is being made.

Ultimately, the Stevenson-Kovalev fight is gonna happen in the future and it will probably be a bigger deal by then.

I'm looking forward to Hopkins-Stevenson and I'm thrilled its going to happen.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;54415]"(And please, don't bring up that pathetically non-commercial matchup of Stevenson-Kovalev."

Shadow, as a boxing fan ,do you not want to see Stevenson-Kovalev?

As far as pathetically non-commercial, the numbers speak for themselves. Millions would tune in.[/QUOTE]

The numbers do seak for themselves. Compared to the biggest fights, it is utterly non-commercial.

Here's why:

It's a premium cable fight, at best. The total gross most likely wouldn't even match 50% of the live gate alone from the bottom 10 of biggest fights in Las Vegas. And that's the truth. So it doesn't even come close to falling into the "biggest fights" category.

It would generate about 2.5% of what the biggest fight did; a fight Al Haymon, ironically, was instrumental in putting together, which ALSO featured two of his biggest clients in Garcia and Matthyse squaring off -- something critics said Haymon would never allow.

So yes, the numbers and the facts do speak for themselves. There's a big difference between the "biggest fights" and "most anticipated among hardcore boxing fans." HUGE difference.

In fact, most of the money, outside of whatever license fee a broadcaster would dole out, Stevenson brings more to the table with his drawing power in Canada.

Millions wouldn't tune in domestically. Maybe a million and change. At best. The rest would come from Canada.

Realistically, the fight probably isn't bigger than GGG-Quillin, Adrien Broner-Gavin Rees -- heck, Adrien Broner vs. anyone! -- or any Chavez Jr.-Vera.

Like I said, anticipated among vocal hardcores doesn't equal commercially big.

You know what's also a bigger fight? A Hopkins-Stevenson matchup for the UNDISPUTED light heavyweight championship of the world! Isn't that what fans always ask for?? One champion, unifications etc. etc.?

Even the biggest Kovalev fan wouldn't come argue that Kovalev has greater name value than Hopkins....

You ask a good question whether I as a fan would watch. Great question.

Yes, I'm mildly curious. But as far as me as a fan, I would much, much rather see Hopkins vs. Stevenson and I've felt that way since Stevenson iced Chad Dawson.

And I obviously LOVE the sh*t so as a fan, I'm getting EXACTLY what I want!

For one, I like when they one champ in one division; I welcome the rare opportunity to see all major belts unified -- something that hasn't happened since 2006.

Two, how often do we have a chance to see history made like Bernard has the chance to make?? I love that type of stuff.

Thirdly, I'm super fascinated every time Hopkins fights. I love the suspense of seeing whether this old fart can dismantle another young champion YET AGAIN!

Every time he does this, he has a chance to promote clean living, discipline and setting goals. Quite frankly, these are issues I believe are important to promote.

Lastly, Bernard is old. He's done in a few years. Throughout the years, I believe he has earned the right to fight for the undisputed light heavyweight championship at 50 (!!) without being slandered, vilified and criticized for doing so by impatient hardcores who want instant gratification.

Surely, everyone would agree with that, that he's earned that?! I love history and records. That's what sports is about to me. To me, that has much greater appeal than seeing two big punchers duke it out (and we already saw that fight in September).

So as far as being a big fight, not really. A fight I want to see? Not more than I want to see the one that is being made.

Ultimately, the Stevenson-Kovalev fight is gonna happen in the future and it will probably be a bigger deal by then.

I'm looking forward to Hopkins-Stevenson and I'm thrilled its going to happen.

deepwater2 says:

I would hope, as a fan, it would be on HBO or Showtime because I am sick of paying for PPV.

Even if Stevenson vs Kovalev would be on PPV I would still pay for it. Styles make fights. Two young knockout punchers in their prime is what I would like to tune in to. As far as clean living and seeing if old Hopkins can frustrate and tie up Stevenson and take a win is nice, but most fans would rather see two young champs go at it.

HBO is bigger then Showtime I know.

On April 19th , Hopkins vs Shumenov peaked at 760,000 viewers.

Stevenson vs Fonfara was a big disappointment with 672,000 viewers.

Contrast those numbers with Kovelev vs the 40-1 underdog Agnew , 1.1 million tuned in to catch a glimpse.

After watching Stevenson against Fonfara its easy to see why he was advised to avoid Kovalev. He might not even get by Hopkins after that poor showing.

So even with the Hopkins story-line and Stevenson's punching power do you think more people will spend their dollars on PPV on that fight compared to Stevenson vs Kovelev?

Also it is silly to compare every big fight to the 10 biggest fights in history. It doesn't have to be top 10 to be successful.

oubobcat says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;54435]I would hope, as a fan, it would be on HBO or Showtime because I am sick of paying for PPV.

Even if Stevenson vs Kovalev would be on PPV I would still pay for it. Styles make fights. Two young knockout punchers in their prime is what I would like to tune in to. As far as clean living and seeing if old Hopkins can frustrate and tie up Stevenson and take a win is nice, but most fans would rather see two young champs go at it.

HBO is bigger then Showtime I know.

On April 19th , Hopkins vs Shumenov peaked at 760,000 viewers.

Stevenson vs Fonfara was a big disappointment with 672,000 viewers.

Contrast those numbers with Kovelev vs the 40-1 underdog Agnew , 1.1 million tuned in to catch a glimpse.

After watching Stevenson against Fonfara its easy to see why he was advised to avoid Kovalev. He might not even get by Hopkins after that poor showing.

So even with the Hopkins story-line and Stevenson's punching power do you think more people will spend their dollars on PPV on that fight compared to Stevenson vs Kovelev?

Also it is silly to compare every big fight to the 10 biggest fights in history. It doesn't have to be top 10 to be successful.

* I forgot to add this in before. A good example of a commercial failure would be Hopkins last PPV vs Dawson 2 years ago, as little as 40,000, according to Golden Boy. Only 3,888 tickets were sold (with 3,151 free tickets distributed) for a gate of only $285,677[/QUOTE]

As a boxing fan, if Stevenson-Kovalev were announced (not happening but just hypothetical) on PPV I would certainly be purchasing. I think the hardcore fans without question purchase.

However, if you ask a general sports fan and occasional PPV buyer what they would think about a Stevenson-Kovalev PPV, they would probably respond who vs who.

So PPV, not it wouldn't sell to well and would have to be placed on a premium cable network.

As for Hopkins PPV potential, deep said it perfectly. The last Hopkins PPV failed miserably. The only way Hopkins ever would be considered for PPV again would be if somehow someway he faced Mayweather. And that is a long shot at best.

Hopkins-Stevenson appears likely to happen at the moment. But no way it goes to PPV, it will be a Showtime headlining bout.

As for the fight, I am 100% convinced this is almost a walk in the park for Hopkins. Stevenson has plenyy of weaknesses as we saw in his last fight against Fonfara and Hopkins is a master of exposing others weaknesses. Hopkins will be able to get Stevenson to fight his fight at his pace and pot shot him to pieces from the outside. It will resemble the Cloud fight with Stevenson maybe swinging and missing a bit more.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;54435]I would hope, as a fan, it would be on HBO or Showtime because I am sick of paying for PPV.

Even if Stevenson vs Kovalev would be on PPV I would still pay for it. Styles make fights. Two young knockout punchers in their prime is what I would like to tune in to. As far as clean living and seeing if old Hopkins can frustrate and tie up Stevenson and take a win is nice, but most fans would rather see two young champs go at it.

HBO is bigger then Showtime I know.

On April 19th , Hopkins vs Shumenov peaked at 760,000 viewers.

Stevenson vs Fonfara was a big disappointment with 672,000 viewers.

Contrast those numbers with Kovelev vs the 40-1 underdog Agnew , 1.1 million tuned in to catch a glimpse.

After watching Stevenson against Fonfara its easy to see why he was advised to avoid Kovalev. He might not even get by Hopkins after that poor showing.

So even with the Hopkins story-line and Stevenson's punching power do you think more people will spend their dollars on PPV on that fight compared to Stevenson vs Kovelev?

Also it is silly to compare every big fight to the 10 biggest fights in history. It doesn't have to be top 10 to be successful.

* I forgot to add this in before. A good example of a commercial failure would be Hopkins last PPV vs Dawson 2 years ago, as little as 40,000, according to Golden Boy. Only 3,888 tickets were sold (with 3,151 free tickets distributed) for a gate of only $285,677[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there's no way they put that on US PPV. However, it may be on Canadian PPV.

As far as those figures go, Stevenson-Fonfara on Memorial Day weekend peaked at 800,000 where you in the industry traditionally shave off 10% viewership.

You're right, good point, HBO is bigger. So if you look at the Kovalev fight, it had about a 3.7 share (percentage of viewers over total households). By comparison, the supposedly awful Stevenson number (which obviously wasn't great), had about 3.2 share. Adjusting for that 10% dip, that's 3.66.

About the same, in other words.

Ultimately, neither really command that much mainstream attention like a Chavez. So it's not a huge fight. Yet. And it's far from the pantheon of the "biggest fights."

And why is it silly to compare to the biggest fights? Let's stay on topic here.

You SPECIFICALLY said Al Haymon prevents the "biggest fights" from happening, referring to Stevenson-Kovalev in the process. I demonstratively and unequivocally showed you why that wasn't the case.

In fact -- and good job with the research, by the way -- those numbers you found all point to the same thing: that Stevenson-Kovalev is exactly what I said. Pathetically non-commercial in the realm of the "biggest fights."

To answer your question, I don't think fans would put money down on either. As Bobcat says, it would be a case of "who versus who?"

At least with Bernard, there would be more of a familiar face and several built-in story lines. Bu they should never take that to PPV.

Bernard is a good B-side to a PPV but not a card-carrying headliner. He's a tremendous, proven ratings and live draw, however. Just look at his averages.

There's also a backstory to that Hopkins-Dawson PPV you neglected to mention.

It wasn't supposed to be PPV. That was HBO's choice. It got flipped to PPV for budget reasons. They knew it would tank. But they had promised x amount of dollars so they went the PPV route to ameliorate that situation by recouping some of the money from PPV.

At the end of the day, you're saying you'd rather see fight A over fight B. Fair enough. I would rather see fight B over fight A. But that doesn't make a third-party adviser a bad guy or someone who prevents the "biggest fights" from happening because that is simply not true.

stormcentre says:

[QUOTE=Skibbz;54402]All that being said I think it's important to note that when money's involved people will always come with a smile even if they have a dagger behind their back. In the days of the Crusades when Muslims and Christians were slaughtering each other, trade blossomed between the two sides.

If it's in HBO's interest (which I believe it to be) then they will gladly welcome Oscar back, especially if Arum is by his side. Money makes people forget and set aside their differences for their dreams of avarice. Competition is fierce in this business and a big player in the sport just doesn't disappear into the mist after the captain jumps ship. It'll take some patching up but Oscar will get it done.[/QUOTE]


Good call.

Skibbz says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;54435]I would hope, as a fan, it would be on HBO or Showtime because I am sick of paying for PPV.

Even if Stevenson vs Kovalev would be on PPV I would still pay for it. Styles make fights. Two young knockout punchers in their prime is what I would like to tune in to. As far as clean living and seeing if old Hopkins can frustrate and tie up Stevenson and take a win is nice, but most fans would rather see two young champs go at it.

HBO is bigger then Showtime I know.

On April 19th , Hopkins vs Shumenov peaked at 760,000 viewers.

Stevenson vs Fonfara was a big disappointment with 672,000 viewers.

Contrast those numbers with Kovelev vs the 40-1 underdog Agnew , 1.1 million tuned in to catch a glimpse.

After watching Stevenson against Fonfara its easy to see why he was advised to avoid Kovalev. He might not even get by Hopkins after that poor showing.

So even with the Hopkins story-line and Stevenson's punching power do you think more people will spend their dollars on PPV on that fight compared to Stevenson vs Kovelev?

Also it is silly to compare every big fight to the 10 biggest fights in history. It doesn't have to be top 10 to be successful.

* I forgot to add this in before. A good example of a commercial failure would be Hopkins last PPV vs Dawson 2 years ago, as little as 40,000, according to Golden Boy. Only 3,888 tickets were sold (with 3,151 free tickets distributed) for a gate of only $285,677[/QUOTE]

Completely agree. We all know which fight has needle because we all watching boxing. Everyone knows how big a fight between Stevenson and Kovalev would be, these guys can bang and both are world champs. Anyone who doesn't watch boxing would only have to catch a brief 2 minute long clip of their knock out reels, read some spin on how it's going to be the knockout fest of the year and they'll already be reaching for their wallets...

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