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NO CONTROVERSY Froch Drops and Stops Groves In 8th

BY Michael Woods ON May 31, 2014
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Carl Froch stayed patient, and let George Groves jab and jab some more, dictate the range, slide left and right...and then dropped a right hand hammer in round eighth at Wembley Arena in England. The ref didn't bother to count, as Groves, touched on the chin in a bad way, wasn't even halfway there. The medics gave him oygen, as he sat in his corner, a beaten man, no hint of controversy.

A left hook was a throwaway, and the right behind it landed on the chin, as Groves threw a left hook counter, too slow, in that fateful eighth. The left hook was wide, slow and an invitation for the crackerjack right.

Froch went 96-349 to 126-314 for the loser.

Froch entered with the IBF and the WBA 168-pound crowns.

About 80,000 fans packed in to see the scrap, and US fans watched it on HBO. Froch (age 36; 32-2 entering; from Nottingham) was 167.9, while Groves (age 26; 19-1 entering; from London) was 166.4 at the weigh-in.

They clashed last November, with Groves having luck early, but getting buzzed, and stopped out, controversially, in round nine.

In the first, Groves landed snappier jabs to start. Froch looked a quarter step behind the kid. In the second, groves kept on a jabbing. They rassled and Groves went to the mat, at 1:40. A left hook from Groves caught Froch coming in.

In the third, the crowd hooted some. Then Froch and Groves both landed hard. Froch was being too respectful and Groves' left hook clipped him a couple times.

In the fourth, Groves kept moving, threw combos, as Froch kept his gun holstered too much. Groves' mobility edge helped when Froch got close. Froch did land a couple body shots, not something we'd seen much of.

In the fifth, Froch landed a couple power shots, and got happier. But Groves, when he dictated distance, was winning the round. Then some trading occurred, and that made Froch happier. It was Froch's best round.

In the sixth, Groves did better at keeping a distance between them. The length of his jab was solid in this round. Froch tried to pounce but the mobile Groves slid away. In the seventh, a left hook backed up Froch two steps. A right by Froch in the last minute landed clean. Another right lead by Froch maybe stole the round for him.

In the eighth, the jabbathon continued. A one-two by GG, then another, and his jabs were working. Then a right dropped Groves, and he looked out of it, and the ref pulled the plug. No count needed. His left leg was folded underneath him, and he looked loopy as he got up.

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Radam G says:

I hate to say that I told ya!' But I told ya! Groves lost before the bout started. Dude was too whined up. And he used up all of his strength in dumb-arse emotions long before the bell rang.

Groves was into some type of ding-dong belief of "It's-my-time" anointment.

WTF! Somebody should have told him not in boksingeligion.

You have to take it. In order to make it. A real champ doesn't give a double d@mn if you fake it. Bringing dat moolah in, he's glad UP to rake it. Holla!

The Commish says:

As I prepare my notes for theSiriusXM show I am doing next week from the IBHOF in Canastota, I couldn't help but think that one day, Carl Froch will be standing there as an inductee. I thought that after he came from behind to knock out George Groves in their rematch at Wembley Stadium.

When the bomb landed to drop Groves, I immediately thought, "OMG, this is just like their last fight." When referee Charlie Fitch waved it off, the Twitter posts I was watching exploded in anger.

"WTF! Groves just suffered another quick stoppage loss!" said one tweeter.

"Referees just seem to like pulling the trigger early on Groves," said another.

I was flabbergasted. The stoppage by Fitch was perfect. Had another ref allowed the fight to go on, ZGroves would have gotten...

Forget it. I doubt another ref--any ref--even refs who have a history of allowing fights to continue too long, would have allowed this to continue. Charlie Fitch is not another ref. Over his career, his has quietly, unassumingly and humbly become one of the best third men in the sport. He doesn't have a history of stopping fights too fast. Or too late. Charlie Fitch stops them when they should be stopped. That's exactly what he did here.

He did the same thing when GGG hammered the steel-chinned Gregorsz Proksa on HBO on September 1, 2012. Charlie Fitch was exactly the man to be in the ring with Froch and Groves. The stoppage had nothing to do with the fact it was Groves who was down. Fitch would have done the same thing had it been Froch who was in that condition.

That's why I was blown away when I read the tweets immediately following the stoppage. The ending was not early. It was notpremature. It was not controversial.

It was perfect.

-Randy G.

Grimm says:

To: Mr Carl Froch.

Congratulations, Carl. You did it again. With every win, you make my predictions fail. I reckon I ought to get it right sometime, but so far, you almost always beat me - and your opponents.

I must say I'm impressed. You have non-existent coordination. You have rotten timing. You have speed that make my grandma look fast. You have hips that seem to be screwed onto your spine as to make you look like a beginner when you unleash your series of 3-4-5 punches to the body. You look awkward and, oddly, at times a bit gunshy - despite your world class chin. And yet...yet you win, and most of the time convincingly.

You are obviously the epitome of character. You have taken what you got and made more than the most out of it. You have learned just enough boxing as to not be able to play around with, and combined with your physical strength, your resilience and your ability to let your fists show your opponents what the abyss of boxing is really about you have reached a level that let you compete where you really shouldn't be able to compete. You're not the first in boxing history that's done it, but you do belong - I admit that now - in a club of exclusive few, hard men with the same ability to conquer their limits.

Congratuations, until next time - when I'll probably bet against you again.

The Commish says:

What's next for Froch? I, for one, could do without seeing a rematch of Ward-Froch. Their initial encounter, in December of 2011, had Ward winning a unanimous decision. A rematch will most likely have the same result.

What about GGG or JCC Jr. for Froch?

-Randy G.

Skibbz says:

To: Mr Carl Froch.

Congratulations, Carl. You did it again. With every win, you make my predictions fail. I reckon I ought to get it right sometime, but so far, you almost always beat me - and your opponents.

I must say I'm impressed. You have non-existent coordination. You have rotten timing. You have speed that make my grandma look fast. You have hips that seem to be screwed onto your spine as to make you look like a beginner when you unleash your series of 3-4-5 punches to the body. You look awkward and, oddly, at times a bit gunshy - despite your world class chin. And yet...yet you win, and most of the time convincingly.

You are obviously the epitome of character. You have taken what you got and made more than the most out of it. You have learned just enough boxing as to not be able to play around with, and combined with your physical strength, your resilience and your ability to let your fists show your opponents what the abyss of boxing is really about you have reached a level that let you compete where you really shouldn't be able to compete. You're not the first in boxing history that's done it, but you do belong - I admit that now - in a club of exclusive few, hard men with the same ability to conquer their limits.

Congratuations, until next time - when I'll probably bet against you again.


Very well said, but didn't he set up that right hand well... It had a feint, a left hook to occupy George then a well timed right just as the gap opened up. Did we see a flash of genius?! Full glory to Froch for doing it again without controversy, against a relatively hostile crowd on a massive stage. The atmosphere was electrifying. When Groves went down with his legs beneath him, arms still held up we all knew it was over. The roar from the crowd reverberated around the stadium. It was an incredible night.

How about the ring walks? George's was one of the best i've seen with all the flames and the London bus. Shame it didn't carry him closer but it was all incredible to watch.

There were so many boxing fans in the stadium old and new. Young boys with their fathers watching a prizefight for the first time would no doubt be inspired to take the path of the fighter after such an event. Eddie was talking up plans of future bouts in Wembley again... It can only get better!

amayseng says:

As I prepare my notes for theSiriusXM show I am doing next week from the IBHOF in Canastota, I couldn't help but think that one day, Carl Froch will be standing there as an inductee. I thought that after he came from behind to knock out George Groves in their rematch at Wembley Stadium.

When the bomb landed to drop Groves, I immediately thought, "OMG, this is just like their last fight." When referee Charlie Fitch waved it off, the Twitter posts I was watching exploded in anger.

"WTF! Groves just suffered another quick stoppage loss!" said one tweeter.

"Referees just seem to like pulling the trigger early on Groves," said another.

I was flabbergasted. The stoppage by Fitch was perfect. Had another ref allowed the fight to go on, ZGroves would have gotten...

Forget it. I doubt another ref--any ref--even refs who have a history of allowing fights to continue too long, would have allowed this to continue. Charlie Fitch is not another ref. Over his career, his has quietly, unassumingly and humbly become one of the best third men in the sport. He doesn't have a history of stopping fights too fast. Or too late. Charlie Fitch stops them when they should be stopped. That's exactly what he did here.

He did the same thing when GGG hammered the steel-chinned Gregorsz Proksa on HBO on September 1, 2012. Charlie Fitch was exactly the man to be in the ring with Froch and Groves. The stoppage had nothing to do with the fact it was Groves who was down. Fitch would have done the same thing had it been Froch who was in that condition.

That's why I was blown away when I read the tweets immediately following the stoppage. The ending was not early. It was notpremature. It was not controversial.

It was perfect.

-Randy G.



I don't think Froch is a hall of famer. He is however a tough sob..


as for the stoppage, I think it was a good stoppage. However, I can see how some people just want to see a full 10 count. When Groves got up after it was stopped he was all over the place and in no condition to continue. Good stoppage, like I said people just want the 10 count either way thinking a fighter should get the full 10 seconds to get up and try to clear the cobwebs.


I have seen teammates on the football field receive a head on collision, literally be out for 3 seconds and come to and jump up, head right over to their position, and make a tackle on the next play as if nothing happened. Then not remember the entire game the next day.

the Roast says:

I can't decide what was more sensational, the 80,000 screaming fans, the one punch knockout, or the post fight jubilation of my favorite boxing babe Rachel Cordingly. Froch and Rachel both make the Hall someday.

the Roast says:

I can't decide what was more sensational, the 80,000 screaming fans, the one punch knockout, or the post fight jubilation of my favorite boxing babe Rachel Cordingly. Froch and Rachel both make the Hall someday.

Radam G says:

I can't decide what was more sensational, the 80,000 screaming fans, the one punch knockout, or the post fight jubilation of my favorite boxing babe Rachel Cordingly. Froch and Rachel both make the Hall someday.


Hehehe! YUP! That dame in red surely will be by her fighting man's side at any juncture. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

As I prepare my notes for theSiriusXM show I am doing next week from the IBHOF in Canastota, I couldn't help but think that one day, Carl Froch will be standing there as an inductee. I thought that after he came from behind to knock out George Groves in their rematch at Wembley Stadium.

When the bomb landed to drop Groves, I immediately thought, "OMG, this is just like their last fight." When referee Charlie Fitch waved it off, the Twitter posts I was watching exploded in anger.

"WTF! Groves just suffered another quick stoppage loss!" said one tweeter.

"Referees just seem to like pulling the trigger early on Groves," said another.

I was flabbergasted. The stoppage by Fitch was perfect. Had another ref allowed the fight to go on, ZGroves would have gotten...

Forget it. I doubt another ref--any ref--even refs who have a history of allowing fights to continue too long, would have allowed this to continue. Charlie Fitch is not another ref. Over his career, his has quietly, unassumingly and humbly become one of the best third men in the sport. He doesn't have a history of stopping fights too fast. Or too late. Charlie Fitch stops them when they should be stopped. That's exactly what he did here.

He did the same thing when GGG hammered the steel-chinned Gregorsz Proksa on HBO on September 1, 2012. Charlie Fitch was exactly the man to be in the ring with Froch and Groves. The stoppage had nothing to do with the fact it was Groves who was down. Fitch would have done the same thing had it been Froch who was in that condition.

That's why I was blown away when I read the tweets immediately following the stoppage. The ending was not early. It was notpremature. It was not controversial.

It was perfect.

-Randy G.


Randy, you know I love you and your opinion. In my lifetime, I've read thousands (tens of thousands? I'm old, darn it!) of articles or posts from journalists, authors and fan of this sport. Let's not debate the stoppage, but the timing of the 'timing of the stoppage'.

I have a great idea! Let's count to ten over the fallen warrior and see if he can stand up in that period of time. Then if he gets on his feet and seems to be standing relatively upright, we can ask him some questions like...

Charlie Fitch: Step to me. So Mr. Groves, how are you?
Groves: I've been better.
Charlie Fitch: If I let you continue what are you going to do mate?
Groves: I'm going to return the favor.
Charlie Fitch: Then what?
Groves: What do you mean Charlie, after I knock him down, or after the fight?
Charlie Fitch: After the fight?
Groves: Well first I'll grab a quick shower, then I'll attend the post fight press conference where I'll be certain to thank you for not jumping the gun and stopping the fight prematurely. Then, because I've been craving cracked crab, maybe in a mustard sauce, I'll go out with Team Groves who along with me have waited a lifetime for a reason to engage in a celebratory opportunity of this magnitude. Now if you'll be so kind, good man, please get out of my way so I can go back about my business.

However, if this happens instead...

Charlie Fitch: Step to me...
Groves: Table for two, preferably on the patio, please.

Then he can still stop the fight as he did, but with more information.

I don't know...I like my way.

amayseng says:

Randy, you know I love you and your opinion. In my lifetime, I've read thousands (tens of thousands? I'm old, darn it!) of articles or posts from journalists, authors and fan of this sport. Let's not debate the stoppage, but the timing of the 'timing of the stoppage'.

I have a great idea! Let's count to ten over the fallen warrior and see if he can stand up in that period of time. Then if he gets on his feet and seems to be standing relatively upright, we can ask him some questions like...

Charlie Fitch: Step to me. So Mr. Groves, how are you?
Groves: I've been better.
Charlie Fitch: If I let you continue what are you going to do mate?
Groves: I'm going to return the favor.
Charlie Fitch: Then what?
Groves: What do you mean Charlie, after I knock him down, or after the fight?
Charlie Fitch: After the fight?
Groves: Well first I'll grab a quick shower, then I'll attend the post fight press conference where I'll be certain to thank you for not jumping the gun and stopping the fight prematurely. Then, because I've been craving cracked crab, maybe in a mustard sauce, I'll go out with Team Groves who along with me have waited a lifetime for a reason to engage in a celebratory opportunity of this magnitude. Now if you'll be so kind, good man, please get out of my way so I can go back about my business.

However, if this happens instead...

Charlie Fitch: Step to me...
Groves: Table for two, preferably on the patio, please.

Then he can still stop the fight as he did, but with more information.

I don't know...I like my way.


haha

Classic DDV.

And I agree. Fitch made the correct call, however, all refs should just give the 10 count so there is NO complaining.

Skibbz says:

I agree with you guys the full count should have been given. Groves didn't twitch a muscle whilst his back was on the floor and from a ref's point of view if the guy is flat on his back with one of his legs bent under him and not moving even after the count has reached 5 or 6 then it's fair to call a stoppage.

Radam G says:

Randy, you know I love you and your opinion. In my lifetime, I've read thousands (tens of thousands? I'm old, darn it!) of articles or posts from journalists, authors and fan of this sport. Let's not debate the stoppage, but the timing of the 'timing of the stoppage'.

I have a great idea! Let's count to ten over the fallen warrior and see if he can stand up in that period of time. Then if he gets on his feet and seems to be standing relatively upright, we can ask him some questions like...

Charlie Fitch: Step to me. So Mr. Groves, how are you?
Groves: I've been better.
Charlie Fitch: If I let you continue what are you going to do mate?
Groves: I'm going to return the favor.
Charlie Fitch: Then what?
Groves: What do you mean Charlie, after I knock him down, or after the fight?
Charlie Fitch: After the fight.
Groves: Well first I'll grab a quick shower, then I'll attend the post fight press conference where I'll be certain to thank you for not jumping the gun and stopping the fight prematurely. Then, because I've been craving cracked crab, maybe in a mustard sauce, I'll go out with Team Groves who along with me have waited a lifetime for a reason to engage in a celebratory opportunity of this magnitude. Now if you'll be so kind, good man, please get out of my way so I can go back about my business.

However, if this happens instead...

Charlie Fitch: Step to me...
Groves: Table for two, preferably on the patio, please.

Then he can still stop the fight as he did, but with more information.

I don't know, I like my way better.


No way, DDV! I have to ride with Commish RG on this one, and push you off the wagon for sneaking into a typical Trick-of-The-Trade referee cheat. Hehehe! ToTTrcs are happening often nowadays, and only a few smart corners on to the refs are putting the heat.

The ref is only suppose to give the "mandatory eight count" while looking into the fighter's eye and then say to the effect: "step forward - FIGHT!" And that's it. Nothing more. However -- without even counting -- while the fighter is stretched out on the canvas, the referee can peep into his eyes and holla "No more, it's over!"

For a whole score -- 20 years at least -- referees have been inadvertently or deliberately giving "Long count(s)" with all these extra talking ceremonies to the hurt fighter, histrionics and Hollywood-star acting to the cameras.

True DA! True DA! Too many fights are often stopped too soon. But too many fights are often "Long count" ones because of the above yapping and acting that I've mentioned above of nowadays referees.

Da fight game is full of optical illusions and even stealth cheats everywhere. But this fight was on the up and up. And "The Cobra" whupped butt. Holla!

Grimm says:

Very well said, but didn't he set up that right hand well... It had a feint, a left hook to occupy George then a well timed right just as the gap opened up. Did we see a flash of genius?!


Haha, don't know about genius, but it is a classic - it's been done a thousand times, and for a reason. Almost like one of those combinations of chords, that bands keep using again and again, cause they create such good music. Paw-paw-slap a left to the side-BANG. (Even if this particular combo was without the initial paw-paws.) Yeah, Carl really committed to that right. Groves was out as he fell, and could've been badly hurt had he come up and been allowed to continue.

oubobcat says:

When I saw Groves get hit and laying on the canvas with his leg bent over, my gut was telling me he was absolutely done. It did not look good for a few seconds and I was concerned. Then Charlie Fitch stopped the fight and Groves popped up arguing. I think Charlie Fitch is an excellent referee and given the circumstances made 100% the right call.

It was a split second decision. But as I stated above, it did not look good initially. This was nothing at all like the first fight and there was legitimate concern for a few seconds about Groves' health. Fitch did give it a little time (did not immediately call it off) and when Groves was initially non-responsive Fitch made the call to stop the fight right then and there.

Skibbz says:

Haha, don't know about genius, but it is a classic - it's been done a thousand times, and for a reason. Almost like one of those combinations of chords, that bands keep using again and again, cause they create such good music. Paw-paw-slap a left to the side-BANG. (Even if this particular combo was without the initial paw-paws.) Yeah, Carl really committed to that right. Groves was out as he fell, and could've been badly hurt had he come up and been allowed to continue.


What made it seem so genius was that I didn't expect it from Carl, it was like a momentary flash of perfection. In the moment he came up with the goods without even realising it himself. I'm sure he's been working on that for many years but he's never really showed anything like that... He just likes to imagine his opponent as a heavy bag and swing it out.

Side note... What if we see a resurgence by Froch after this fight? He goes on to win big in Vegas... Beats his next opponent in terrific fashion....... If he ever caught Ward with that kind of punch (one in a million) then he's hitting canvas.. Too much to dream?

oubobcat says:

What made it seem so genius was that I didn't expect it from Carl, it was like a momentary flash of perfection. In the moment he came up with the goods without even realising it himself. I'm sure he's been working on that for many years but he's never really showed anything like that... He just likes to imagine his opponent as a heavy bag and swing it out.

Side note... What if we see a resurgence by Froch after this fight? He goes on to win big in Vegas... Beats his next opponent in terrific fashion....... If he ever caught Ward with that kind of punch (one in a million) then he's hitting canvas.. Too much to dream?


I do think Froch really wants a big fight in Vegas next. I think he wants Chavez bad because Chavez is a draw and is beatable.

I don't see the Ward rematch ever happening. We saw it once and it was a one sided fight. Styles make fights and well Ward's style is one that just will always be difficult for Froch to crack. I don't see a rematch ever being different from their first fight and a lot of fans in the US I think feel the same way.

I think Froch's ultimate plan is to get Chavez in the fall/winter and then win or lose go back to the UK. He can always fight DeGale or have a third fight with Kessler or even Groves (unlikely but not out of the question). All those fights would be much bigger (event wise and money wise as well) and far more interesting than a Ward rematch.

dino da vinci says:

No, I stand by what I said. Start counting, see where it takes us.
In the first showing (live), it looks like the ref may have put a hand on the fighter, as if holding him down.

Again, you can always stop it, but you can't restart it. Holla!

Radam G says:

No, I stand by what I said. Start counting, see where it takes us.
In the first showing (live), it looks like the ref may have put a hand on the fighter, as if holding him down.

Again, you can always stop it, but you can't restart it. Holla!


Actually you can restart a fight. It is referee'$ discretion. I remember back in da day in Florida, the ref counted out Kermit Cintron after Ser-Mart put him down. Then the ref let the bout resume after Cintron bluffed the ref that he was butted instead of cracked on the whispers. Holla!

The Good Doctor says:

Actually you can restart a fight. It is referee'$ discretion. I remember back in da day in Florida, the ref counted out Kermit Cintron after Ser-Mart put him down. Then the ref let the bout resume after Cintron bluffed the ref that he was butted instead of cracked on the whispers. Holla!



I remember that well. It was one of the worst calls ever. I also remember Arthur Mercante Jr. restarting the Cotto-Foreman fight at Yankee stadium after Foreman's corner threw in the towel.

Radam G says:

I remember that well. It was one of the worst calls ever. I also remember Arthur Mercante Jr. restarting the Cotto-Foreman fight at Yankee stadium after Foreman's corner threw in the towel.


The restarting of bouts after kayos and surrenders have a long history in the amateurs and pros. DDV just needs to drink some fennel seed tea to re-ignite the fire pistons in his brain cells. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

I'm a million years old and I've never seen a fight restarted. I have seen the corner throw in the towel only to have the ref throw it back at them without interruption. I'll get my best people on it and report back. Also, amateur, amateur hour, rank amateur, you can have all of that.

Radam G says:

I'm a million years old and I've never seen a fight restarted. I have seen the corner throw in the towel only to have the ref throw it back at them without interruption. I'll get my best people on it and report back. Also, amateur, amateur hour, rank amateur, you can have all of that.


C'mon, DDV! You are only 999,999 years and 11 months and 29 days old. Hehehe! No way that you missed Cintron-Martinez fight back in the day. And way, way back in the day, Carlos Monzon halted a couple aging greats in the bouts that were stopped and restarted by incompetent refs.

In the amateurs, during the caveman days, Michael Spinks kayoed Tommy Brooks twice in one night. The ref claimed that the bell had rung as Spinks kayoed TB at the end of the second round. The ref let the bout start again in the third round, so Spinks kayoed him again midway through it.

Aaron "Hawk Time" Pryor kayoed a Canadian in the first round of the ancient times Pan-Am Games of 1975. The ref claimed that it was a bit after the bell. So Hawk Time kayoed the Canadian again in the second round. The ref then made an excuse that Hawk Time hit him on the break. And D'Qed Hawk Time.

Maybe ESPN-Classic/Wide World of Sports have finally released the above films on YouTube. All types of old amateur and old pro fights have showed up on YouTube lately. Holla!

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