Stugots

BY Springs Toledo ON April 25, 2014
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46 0 3404675 ph-fight019 800x600 90055A red tear trickled down Paulie Malignaggi’s cheek in the fourth round Saturday night. I saw it after the first knockdown when he got up to walk it off. The referee was calling out the standing eight, but Paulie ignored him; he was busy making sure his legs still worked.

The welterweight who clubbed him down walked backward to a neutral corner and never took his eyes of Paulie. I never took my eyes of him. He’s a juggernaut, short and wide like an image in a funhouse mirror, shoulders like boulders, no neck. He reminded me of someone I got to know recently, someone from the ferocious forties. They call him Shawn Porter but he was barreling in like a little tiger—like the Little Tiger, Aaron Wade. Left hooks and right hand blasts were ruffling old fight reports scattered around my living room floor.

Wade went barreling through three divisions between 1935 and 1947. He began his career as a welterweight then advanced to middleweight and light heavyweight. Porter has travelled the same path through the traditional weight classes, only in reverse. Their paradigms are also similar. After Wade faced Sugar Ray Robinson, he retired and eventually became a Christian minister. Porter held a prayer meeting in his corner after the slaughter was stopped and was overheard saying “We pray for Paulie’s health in Jesus’s name.”

Paulie was lying nearby bleeding under the ropes. I thought about Willie Pep. Great though he was, Pep too was laid out bleeding after Sandy Saddler got him good. It was October 29, 1948. “I started out feinting as usual to get a feeling for him and he ignored it completely and caught me cold,” Pep said. “I was completely surprised. He knocked me down twice before the fourth round and then he stopped me.”

Porter and Wade. Paulie and Pep. “The Sweet Science,” said A.J. Liebling, “is joined onto the past like a man’s arm to his shoulder.”

The science of the Sweet Science is also joined onto the past. We learned early that master boxers like Pep toy with plodding punchers, though swarmers and pressure fighters present real problems. They’re disruptive. The boxer uses pizazz punctuated by jabs to con his opponent into a pace and rhythm designed to sap his spirit. But disruptive fighters don’t buy what’s being sold. The swarmer closes in rapidly and the pressure fighter closes in ominously and if the boxer fails to keep the beast at bay, he suffers little panic attacks. You can see it in that wide-eyed “uh-oh” look.

Pep walked blindly into the worst knockout loss of his career. He had no excuse. “I had won seventy-three fights in a row and I didn’t think any kid named Sandy Saddler was going to beat me,” he said. “I wasn’t even a little worried.”

Paulie walked into his knockout loss with eyes wide open. He doesn’t need an excuse. He simply “bit off more than he could chew again,” said Jeffrey Freeman of KO Digest. In fighting a younger, stronger, stylistic nightmare, he did what few million-dollar fighters would dare to do and he didn’t blink. Even Sugar Ray Robinson blinked when it came to Murderers’ Row. He ran out on written contracts to meet two of them, ducked another one for years, and he did it during his breathtaking prime. Not Paulie. Paulie’s record is a profile in courage.

“You know who I was rewarded with in my first title fight?” he said last June, “Miguel Cotto.” And it hasn’t been much easier since. He’s been what Vegas calls an underdog with fleas. The odds were 12-5 against him when he faced Ricky Hatton, 4-1 when he faced Juan Diaz, and 5-1 when he faced Amir Khan. Vyacheslav Senchenko was undefeated and a 4.5-1 favorite when Paulie stopped him, but the handicappers scoffed and chalked him in as a 15-1 underdog when he face the untested Adrien Broner. Paulie scoffed right back. “This is how the creation of Adrien Broner happened,” he said before their bout. “They got everybody that’s wrong for boxing together in one room, did everything that’s wrong for boxing in that room, and gave birth to Adrien Broner.” The Sweet Science, he told the press, requires more than talent at the upper level. Then he proceeded to prove it over twelve rounds. So then what happens? He signs to meet a fading Zab Judah, is once again declared an underdog, and dominates the rounds with a jab.

In January, Paulie said he was willing to fight Porter, despite the fact that no one else was calling out that beast. “What do you see in Porter that you can capitalize on?” He was asked. “I’m not saying I see any weaknesses,” Paulie said. “You don’t necessarily have to see a weakness in them to want to fight them” [emphasis mine].

When the smoke cleared Saturday night, it looked as if the ceiling fell on him. He may have regretted wanting to fight Porter. Now he’s wondering what to do next. Retire? Face some plodding journeyman, look good, and retire a winner?

If he is not medically cleared to fight again by a responsible authority, then he has no choice but to retire. If he is cleared and there is no increased risk of injury in the aftermath of his knockout, then he has several choices.

The ghost of Willie Pep points at one of them: Fight Porter again.

Pep had two tune-ups after his knockout loss. Paulie can fight a second-rate swarmer close to home and fight him safely: vary the speed, placement, and force of the jab, avoid the inside where Porter’s strength sapped his, avoid mid-range where he is reduced to punchers’ meat, and practice staying just off the perimeter to draw him out and then counter and circle off. “Keep on the go,” was Pep’s recommendation. “Keep him off balance.” If Paulie and especially Paulie’s legs feel good after ten rounds, he can turn his attention toward Porter and lobby for a rematch.

To most citizens and a few tin-belt titlists more interested in celebrity than glory, it might seem crazy. Why would Paulie challenge his stylistic foil a second time? Anyone who has been paying attention knows the answer.

Pep, haunted by Saddler, knew the answer. “We had a rematch,” he said, “and you better believe I was ready for him. Most of the writers were picking Sandy but I was ready for him. I was dead set on beating him no matter what.”

So what happened? “You could look it up,” Pep used to say with a smirk.

If Paulie decides to hang up his gloves, he will go down in boxing history as a profile in courage. If he returns to full capacity and considers avenging the worst knockout loss of his career, he should fight Porter the way Pep fought and beat Saddler —then do better than Pep and retire.

 

 

 

 


Malignaggi’s statements about Porter recorded 1/31/14 by Tha’ Boxing Voice. Willie Pep’s quotes on Saddler I and II found inWillie Pep Remembers Friday’s Heroes, with Robert Sacchi (1973), p. 14 and Peter Heller’s interview of Pep in In This Corner: 42 World Champions Tell Their Stories (1973), p. 253.

Springs Toledo can be contacted at scalinatella@hotmail.com .

 

deepwater2 says:

Hang em Paulie. Life is good now. You can be a boxer or you can be an analyst for Showtime and travel the world but you can't be both. Maybe a homecoming/ going away party at the Garden or Barclays vs a b-level guy one last time ,but its time to go now. Paulie did better than anyone ever expected and he earned the respect of the boxing world. He has a great future as an analyst and trainer down the road. Thanks Paulie, now go eat all the pizza and pasta you want.

The Shadow says:

It's interesting, the grapevine is filled with suspicion about Porter juicing the F*CK up for this fight...

Paulie even alluded to it also in an interview the other day.

Whether he thought it or not, his comments certainly suggested a curiosity about a sudden power from a guy with modest punching power hurting a sturdy chinned dude with every shot he threw.

Some guys are speculating privately. I've even seen hints of it publicly without dropping names. No one wants that lawsuit.

Have some of you guys in here ever seen -- don't have to drop names -- guys on any level turn to the jay-you-ICE?

oubobcat says:

It's interesting, the grapevine is filled with suspicion about Porter juicing the F*CK up for this fight...

Paulie even alluded to it also in an interview the other day.

Whether he thought it or not, his comments certainly suggested a curiosity about a sudden power from a guy with modest punching power hurting a sturdy chinned dude with every shot he threw.

Some guys are speculating privately. I've even seen hints of it publicly without dropping names. No one wants that lawsuit.

Have some of you guys in here ever seen -- don't have to drop names -- guys on any level turn to the jay-you-ICE?


Lets look at the facts. Porter is a big Welterweight. He fought his first professional fight at 165 pounds. He caCmpaigned for his first few years as a pro as a Junior Middleweight before coming down to 147.

Porter changed his style after the first Diaz fight. He was tentative against Diaz, tried boxing at times and other times working on the inside. He looked confused. Watch a tape of the first Diaz fight compared with what Porter did afterward. He became aggressive and began using his physical strength at Welterweight to push around opponents.

Malignaggi started his career at Lightweight. He only recently made to move to Welterweight. Entering the ring, Porter was a much physically bigger man.

Lets go back to Malignaggi's fight with Pablo Cesar Cano. Cano physically pushed Malignaggi around at times and his pressure began breaking Malignaggi down. He hurt and dropped Malignaggi in this fight. Malignaggi did not look like the Malignaggi of old in this fight, he was visibly slower and when pressured his legs did not react the way they used to Frankly, I thought Cano was fairly dominant and deserved the decision. I though Malignaggi got a gift that night.

In his next fight, Cano was beaten by a 41 year old Shane Mosley. He was out boxed, especially late. The pressure he applied on Mosley did not have the same impact as it had on Malignaggi. Mosley took Cano's punches better than Malignaggi.

See where I am getting...The signs were all there. This is not something that completely came out of nowehere. Porter is much physically bigger and had really begun to learn how to use this physical strength. Malignaggi was the much smaller man and had experienced problems recently with pressure fighters.

admin says:

Superb analysis, sir. ---Editor Mike

Lets look at the facts. Porter is a big Welterweight. He fought his first professional fight at 165 pounds. He caCmpaigned for his first few years as a pro as a Junior Middleweight before coming down to 147.

Porter changed his style after the first Diaz fight. He was tentative against Diaz, tried boxing at times and other times working on the inside. He looked confused. Watch a tape of the first Diaz fight compared with what Porter did afterward. He became aggressive and began using his physical strength at Welterweight to push around opponents.

Malignaggi started his career at Lightweight. He only recently made to move to Welterweight. Entering the ring, Porter was a much physically bigger man.

Lets go back to Malignaggi's fight with Pablo Cesar Cano. Cano physically pushed Malignaggi around at times and his pressure began breaking Malignaggi down. He hurt and dropped Malignaggi in this fight. Malignaggi did not look like the Malignaggi of old in this fight, he was visibly slower and when pressured his legs did not react the way they used to Frankly, I thought Cano was fairly dominant and deserved the decision. I though Malignaggi got a gift that night.

In his next fight, Cano was beaten by a 41 year old Shane Mosley. He was out boxed, especially late. The pressure he applied on Mosley did not have the same impact as it had on Malignaggi. Mosley took Cano's punches better than Malignaggi.

See where I am getting...The signs were all there. This is not something that completely came out of nowehere. Porter is much physically bigger and had really begun to learn how to use this physical strength. Malignaggi was the much smaller man and had experienced problems recently with pressure fighters.

deepwater2 says:

Superb analysis, sir. ---Editor Mike


Agreed. The only juice Porter touches is orange juice. The Porter team is a class act. Steroids don't help boxers.

Skibbz says:

It's interesting, the grapevine is filled with suspicion about Porter juicing the F*CK up for this fight...

Paulie even alluded to it also in an interview the other day.

Whether he thought it or not, his comments certainly suggested a curiosity about a sudden power from a guy with modest punching power hurting a sturdy chinned dude with every shot he threw.

Some guys are speculating privately. I've even seen hints of it publicly without dropping names. No one wants that lawsuit.

Have some of you guys in here ever seen -- don't have to drop names -- guys on any level turn to the jay-you-ICE?


Porter fought above 147 in the amateurs too. He has a whole lot more than modest punching power. What's more is that he makes the most of that power by the correct technique on his punches. If he hits you it's timber time.

Porter as a person wouldn't do it either. He's got a good, very close knit, team behind him and he's been doing it by the book since he started lacing up gloves for the first time as a pup.

There's always rumours put out by people who haven't watched more than 100 rounds correctly about what this guy's doing and what the other guy's doing but you've got to be able to sift through it all (if you care to listen/read) and find what actually might be true.

Porter has always had a great engine because he works to keep it that way. He trains hard, eats his oats and sweats out his weaknesses.

The Commish says:

You guys are right on target about Porter. He is a big welterweight. I don't mean Thomas Hearns big, but more muscled and thick. Paulie Malignaggi looked like a splinter in there against him.

Was Porter on "juice?" I doubt it. The champ is a gym rat who lives to be a boxer. He has no wife, no girlfriend, no significant other. He lives with his trainer, who happens to be his dad. While many fighters don't go near the gym until they have to, Porter is in the gym all the time because he wants to be there.

I believe he is so good, that in a short time down thge road, Shawn Porter is going to be the man who beats Floyd Mayweather!

That's how good I think he3 is going to become!

-Randy G.

Radam G says:

Porter fought above 147 in the amateurs too. He has a whole lot more than modest punching power. What's more is that he makes the most of that power by the correct technique on his punches. If he hits you it's timber time.

Porter as a person wouldn't do it either. He's got a good, very close knit, team behind him and he's been doing it by the book since he started lacing up gloves for the first time as a pup.

There's always rumours put out by people who haven't watched more than 100 rounds correctly about what this guy's doing and what the other guy's doing but you've got to be able to sift through it all (if you care to listen/read) and find what actually might be true.

Porter has always had a great engine because he works to keep it that way. He trains hard, eats his oats and sweats out his weaknesses.


He fought the amateurs above 147lbs because the weight division was above 141lbs to 152lbs. @The Shadow, the kid trained in the P-Islands as a sparringmate of Da Manny. Trust me! Showtime Po picked up dieting methods that is giving him A-side meth strength. Holla at da legit foods, instead of da syet foods and you too will discover the Hercules in you. Holla!

Radam G says:

Nonetheless, or moreover, Showtime Po's fate against Money May will be similar to what the moolah luvah [$¡¢] did to the red-headed hype. Holla!

amayseng says:

Nonetheless, or moreover, Showtime Po's fate against Money May will be similar to what the moolah luvah [$¡¢] did to the red-headed hype. Holla!


You think? I think Canelo **** the bed, had a terrible performance against Floyd, quite embarrassing..

I think Porter can push Floyd to the limit with his physicality. He also can throw punches while moving his feet, something Floyd has not faced in a LONG time.

That is the best chance of anyone beating Floyd besides Pac. IMHO

amayseng says:

Nonetheless, or moreover, Showtime Po's fate against Money May will be similar to what the moolah luvah [$¡¢] did to the red-headed hype. Holla!


You think? I think Canelo **** the bed, had a terrible performance against Floyd, quite embarrassing..

I think Porter can push Floyd to the limit with his physicality. He also can throw punches while moving his feet, something Floyd has not faced in a LONG time.

That is the best chance of anyone beating Floyd besides Pac. IMHO

amayseng says:

You guys are right on target about Porter. He is a big welterweight. I don't mean Thomas Hearns big, but more muscled and thick. Paulie Malignaggi looked like a splinter in there against him.

Was Porter on "juice?" I doubt it. The champ is a gym rat who lives to be a boxer. He has no wife, no girlfriend, no significant other. He lives with his trainer, who happens to be his dad. While many fighters don't go near the gym until they have to, Porter is in the gym all the time because he wants to be there.

I believe he is so good, that in a short time down thge road, Shawn Porter is going to be the man who beats Floyd Mayweather!

That's how good I think he3 is going to become!

-Randy G.


I am with you Sir.

amayseng says:

As for Paulie, I have really come to like him over the years. As a fellow Italian, I was a bit thrown off by his big mouth years and years back. However, as time progressed so did Paulie, and so did his consistent demeanor of fighting tough opposition.
I feel he is a great analyst and commentator. I look forward to him continuing that career.

I think he deserves a final fight against decent but not overwhelming opposition at home where he can retire on a win.

Or, he can take a year off and reevaluate himself and possibly fight here and there.

The Shadow says:

Porter fought above 147 in the amateurs too. He has a whole lot more than modest punching power. What's more is that he makes the most of that power by the correct technique on his punches. If he hits you it's timber time.

Porter as a person wouldn't do it either. He's got a good, very close knit, team behind him and he's been doing it by the book since he started lacing up gloves for the first time as a pup.

There's always rumours put out by people who haven't watched more than 100 rounds correctly about what this guy's doing and what the other guy's doing but you've got to be able to sift through it all (if you care to listen/read) and find what actually might be true.

Porter has always had a great engine because he works to keep it that way. He trains hard, eats his oats and sweats out his weaknesses.


Yes, he even debuted at light heavyweight or super middleweight I think!

I haven't watched the fight so I have no idea what it looked like one way or the other. I'm not saying I see anything, either. Just relaying what some people, fighters and S&C guys are saying. Definitely raised some eyebrows...

And Skibbz, I don't buy for a second that a good guy wouldn't do it. And neither should you.

Shane Mosley, one of the nicest guys in boxing period, was a deliberate, admitted, sophisticated serial juicer on what they call a "high-octane" program. Steroids, EPO, all that good stuff.

People said the same stuff about Shane. "Oh, he would never do that..."

Well, he did. Knowingly.

I wouldn't put it past ANYONE.

The Shadow says:

Have any of you guys seen or experienced people doing the stuff? I've been in gyms where I knew someone was doing it and it was pretty much common knowledge who were and were not, but on a professional level in boxing? Have you guys seen that?

Radam G says:

C'mon, The Shadow, boxing is sleazy, shady and sneaky. Of course, one sees syet going all around him/her. Just like in college, ninety percent of the people are cheating. And the iota who are not are Asians, because we have A-side meth and tiger mommies. Hehe! Holla!

The Shadow says:

Interesting drug admission -- after multiple initial denials -- from a super nice beloved dude known for having great ethics and integrity.

He tries to dance around it here, while under oath, until confronted with it unequivocally.

"Yes or no, did you know you were taking EPO?!"

"Yes."


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7JMIB7g1mq0

Ironically, this guy got his stash from the same guy who just got Porter ready for Malignaggi.

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50667]Interesting drug admission -- after multiple initial denials -- from a super nice beloved dude known for having great ethics and integrity.

He tries to dance around it here, while under oath, until confronted with it unequivocally.

[I]"Yes or no, did you know you were taking EPO?!"

"Yes."[/I]

[url]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7JMIB7g1mq0

Ironically, this guy got his stash from the same guy who just got Porter ready for Malignaggi.[/QUOTE]

Damn you Shadow, this video kills my spirit, Shane is my dude....

ugh, to be the best you can't put anything past anyone. sadly.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;50668]Damn you Shadow, this video kills my spirit, Shane is my dude....

ugh, to be the best you can't put anything past anyone. sadly.[/QUOTE]

I know, right? :-/

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50635]Have any of you guys seen or experienced people doing the stuff? I've been in gyms where I knew someone was doing it and it was pretty much common knowledge who were and were not, but on a professional level in boxing? Have you guys seen that?[/QUOTE]

I've seen it in baseball.

And unlike my boy RG, I truly think it makes a difference physically.

Of course steroids wont help you hit a 90 mph baseball...However for those who have the skill and ability

to hit one say 300 feet, when on the juice with increased bat speed and torque these guys are now no

longer hitting 300 feet fly balls that are caught, but now hitting 330 feet balls that are landing on the other

side of the fence. I absolutely think it makes a difference. I have seen it in guys.

Also you have increased recovery and energy and can get more time in the gym to prepare.

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;50670]I've seen it in baseball.

And unlike my boy RG, I truly think it makes a difference physically.

Of course steroids wont help you hit a 90 mph baseball...However for those who have the skill and ability

to hit one say 300 feet, when on the juice with increased bat speed and torque these guys are now no

longer hitting 300 feet fly balls that are caught, but now hitting 330 feet balls that are landing on the other

side of the fence. I absolutely think it makes a difference. I have seen it in guys.

Also you have increased recovery and energy and can get more time in the gym to prepare.[/QUOTE]

Single swinging intense power off the dust of the earth with a bat is vastly different from multi shooting, throwing, pushing, flinging and slapping punches to a cranium and torso off a padded canvas. One would not get the grip needed to generate baseball-like hitting power into boxing-hitting power.

Sport science clearly shows that roids and PEDs don't help hand-to-hand combatants that scrapping on mats. "Full of dat syet makes boxers on it tight, lethargic, mechanical, top heavy and overconfident with ragged balance.

Look how that jive hasn't helped Mayweather's stable of pugs that have been nailed full of dat syet. And in the last couple of years, 90 percent of the fighters who were dirty still lost. Half of them by kayos.

They would have had a better chance of putting pine tar on their gloves. Hehehe! Like that baseball pitcher, who put pine tar on his neck to sneak it on to the baseball. What a cheaty knucklehead. Hahaha! Holla!

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50672]Single swinging intense power off the dust of the earth with a bat is vastly different from multi shooting, throwing, pushing, flinging and slapping punches to a cranium and torso off a padded canvas. One would not get the grip needed to generate baseball-like hitting power into boxing-hitting power.

Sport science clearly shows that roids and PEDs don't help hand-to-hand combatants that scrapping on mats. "Full of dat syet makes boxers on it tight, lethargic, mechanical, top heavy and overconfident with ragged balance.

Look how that jive hasn't helped Mayweather's stable of pugs that have been nailed full of dat syet. And in the last couple of years, 90 percent of the fighters who were dirty still lost. Half of them by kayos.

They would have had a better chance of putting pine tar on their gloves. Hehehe! Like that baseball pitcher, who put pine tar on his neck to sneak it on to the baseball. What a cheaty knucklehead. Hahaha! Holla![/QUOTE]

Yeah, good points, I have to take your word for it in the ring.


What about EPO? Definitely a stamina booster would make a difference.. no .?



And that pitcher putting tar on his neck is a f'n dummy.

just like boxing , baseball has tricks of the trade. One may be inclined to have the catcher put tar on his shin guards and touch it from there to the ball when throwing the ball back after receiving the pitch.

also, on the inside wrist/palm on the glove hand.


This guy was plain dumb.


In baseball if you arent cheating you arent trying, its accepted to an extent, but tar on the neck is blatant and just ridiculous, you have to be called out on the ish...

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50672]Single swinging intense power off the dust of the earth with a bat is vastly different from multi shooting, throwing, pushing, flinging and slapping punches to a cranium and torso off a padded canvas. One would not get the grip needed to generate baseball-like hitting power into boxing-hitting power.

Sport science clearly shows that roids and PEDs don't help hand-to-hand combatants that scrapping on mats. "Full of dat syet makes boxers on it tight, lethargic, mechanical, top heavy and overconfident with ragged balance.

Look how that jive hasn't helped Mayweather's stable of pugs that have been nailed full of dat syet. And in the last couple of years, 90 percent of the fighters who were dirty still lost. Half of them by kayos.

They would have had a better chance of putting pine tar on their gloves. Hehehe! Like that baseball pitcher, who put pine tar on his neck to sneak it on to the baseball. What a cheaty knucklehead. Hahaha! Holla![/QUOTE]

While steroids can't improve your skills, "Steroids can help your punch resistance." - Victor Conte

Also, EPO is probably one of the most beneficial drugs to a boxer.

Mosley without EPO (plus the gut shots) might be explain why he gassed so badly vs. Mayweather.

That's Floyd's own theory, anyway.

And Radam, Jay Love got popped taking a diuretic, which is illegal not because it gives the cheater an advantage, but because it is harmful to the fighter taking it.

The eye test is always good. Weight classes exist for a reason.

When a guy is clean, he usually has to pay a price when fluctuating on the scale, whether the bill comes from external strength up north or internal weakening going south:

- Adrien Broner moving up to face his first real bigger-weight puncher in Maidana reacted the way you might suspect.

- Even Floyd, every time he moved up, would get tagged, overpowered and hurt as he adjusted to the weight class.

- Miguel Cotto is another example, which is why I think he may be in for a rude awakening as he goes to 160.

- Chad Dawson coming down, same thing. Got his equilibrium rattled totally.

Unfortunately, fans have become accustomed to seeing these crazy weight-jumping feats -- demanding fighters to continue to move up -- thinking it's a relatively easy task when in reality it isn't.

Radam G says:

Victor Conte is full of bullsyet. Nothing but born that way can help your punch resistance. Dude is a snake oil and pie-in-da-sky humbug. Or soft chins would be standing in long lines to holla at him.

And I must disagree with you about EPO. It is no good for boxers. They'd do better with O-P-P. Hehehe! You know me.

Certain diuretics are also banned substances. J'love did indeed used it for losing weight, as many dumb fighters do. They have lost the art of eating to lose or gain weight. Bunch of New Jack wuzzies. Holla!

Radam G says:

Victor Conte is full of bullsyet. Nothing but born that way can help your punch resistance. Dude is a snake oil and pie-in-da-sky humbug. Or soft chins would be standing in long lines to holla at him.

And I must disagree with you about EPO. It is no good for boxers. They'd do better with O-P-P. Hehehe! You know me.

Certain diuretics are also banned substances. J'love did indeed used it for losing weight, as many dumb fighters do. They have lost the art of eating to lose or gain weight. Bunch of New Jack wuzzies. Holla!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;50670]I've seen it in baseball.

And unlike my boy RG, I truly think it makes a difference physically.

Of course steroids wont help you hit a 90 mph baseball...However for those who have the skill and ability

to hit one say 300 feet, when on the juice with increased bat speed and torque these guys are now no

longer hitting 300 feet fly balls that are caught, but now hitting 330 feet balls that are landing on the other

side of the fence. I absolutely think it makes a difference. I have seen it in guys.

Also you have increased recovery and energy and can get more time in the gym to prepare.[/QUOTE]

It's crazy in baseball, aren't home run numbers down now after there has been more awareness?

I think that's the true benefit: increased recovery. I would agree. The faster you recover, the faster you gain and make progress.

Have you seen how Marcos Maidana is looking, bro? This dude, who probably has one of the worst physiques in boxing, is now cut and ripped after five weeks of training in California.

I gotta admit, that Ariza has a pretty impressive resume:

- Got walkaround cruiser Julio Jr. to make 160 and win a belt.

- Aided Khan to stoppage wins over world class fighters while increasing his punch resistance; Khan didn't suffer a single knockdown during that run.

- Helped a super featherweight Pacquiao capture titles in three higher weight classes in just over a year -- and all three wins by stoppage -- all the while increasing stamina, power and durability.

Since Ariza left Roach's camp, the aforementioned fighters have regressed noticeably.

They had to invent a weight class for Chavez (I heard they called it the "overweight division?") who now is looking at fighting at light heavyweight.

Khan gets dropped by lightweights after surviving the onslaught of Maidana and no longer looks as physically imposing.

Pacquiao hasn't scored a stoppage in five years. Instead, he is getting dropped, stopped while throwing about 30% less punches.

Since joining Roberto Garcia's gym, Ariza's guys have won championships in three weight classes and are looking better than ever.

Whether everything is on the up-and-up with this guy, I don't know. But I do know this: he gets results. Quickly.

deepwater2 says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50693]Victor Conte is full of bullsyet. Nothing but born that way can help your punch resistance. Dude is a snake oil and pie-in-da-sky humbug. Or soft chins would be standing in long lines to holla at him.

And I must disagree with you about EPO. It is no good for boxers. They'd do better with O-P-P. Hehehe! You know me.

Certain diuretics are also banned substances. J'love did indeed used it for losing weight, as many dumb fighters do. They have lost the art of eating to lose or gain weight. Bunch of New Jack wuzzies. Holla![/QUOTE]

Yup you know it. Remember when Vargas took it against DLH? He looked strong and ripped, then he got ripped up and stopped. Punchers are born ,not made. A great chin is from God not a weight room. Ariza knows what Mackie knows. They know about the ATP cycle,lactic acid. creatine, glutamine, whey protein , and clean food. 8 weeks of hard training ,supplementation and nutrition can get anyone ripped and primed. If steroids helped that much in boxing you would see the bodybuilding goons on every card. Instead the goons are guarding mayweather at his boxing club.

deepwater2 says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50693]Victor Conte is full of bullsyet. Nothing but born that way can help your punch resistance. Dude is a snake oil and pie-in-da-sky humbug. Or soft chins would be standing in long lines to holla at him.

And I must disagree with you about EPO. It is no good for boxers. They'd do better with O-P-P. Hehehe! You know me.

Certain diuretics are also banned substances. J'love did indeed used it for losing weight, as many dumb fighters do. They have lost the art of eating to lose or gain weight. Bunch of New Jack wuzzies. Holla![/QUOTE]

Yup you know it. Remember when Vargas took it against DLH? He looked strong and ripped, then he got ripped up and stopped. Punchers are born ,not made. A great chin is from God not a weight room. Ariza knows what Mackie knows. They know about the ATP cycle,lactic acid. creatine, glutamine, whey protein , and clean food. 8 weeks of hard training ,supplementation and nutrition can get anyone ripped and primed. If steroids helped that much in boxing you would see the bodybuilding goons on every card. Instead the goons are guarding mayweather at his boxing club.

deepwater2 says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50693]Victor Conte is full of bullsyet. Nothing but born that way can help your punch resistance. Dude is a snake oil and pie-in-da-sky humbug. Or soft chins would be standing in long lines to holla at him.

And I must disagree with you about EPO. It is no good for boxers. They'd do better with O-P-P. Hehehe! You know me.

Certain diuretics are also banned substances. J'love did indeed used it for losing weight, as many dumb fighters do. They have lost the art of eating to lose or gain weight. Bunch of New Jack wuzzies. Holla![/QUOTE]

Yup you know it. Remember when Vargas took it against DLH? He looked strong and ripped, then he got ripped up and stopped. Punchers are born ,not made. A great chin is from God not a weight room. Ariza knows what Mackie knows. They know about the ATP cycle,lactic acid. creatine, glutamine, whey protein , and clean food. 8 weeks of hard training ,supplementation and nutrition can get anyone ripped and primed. If steroids helped that much in boxing you would see the bodybuilding goons on every card. Instead the goons are guarding mayweather at his boxing club.

The Good Doctor says:

The best way I have heard it described is this. Steroids and PED's DO NOT make you a better boxer. However they do help you gain better tools to which you can become a boxer with. A good strong jab is technique more than anything. However, having brain signals sped up that can send the message through your body to throw the jab can come from PED's. That high overhand right that you never see coming can all of a sudden be picked up in your field of vision because HGH greatly improves eye muscularity which one of the residuals is greater perspective. Does that mean you are going to duck it or block it?; not necessarily but you will now see it.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=The Good Doctor;50765]The best way I have heard it described is this. Steroids and PED's DO NOT make you a better boxer. However they do help you gain better tools to which you can become a boxer with. A good strong jab is technique more than anything. However, having brain signals sped up that can send the message through your body to throw the jab can come from PED's. That high overhand right that you never see coming can all of a sudden be picked up in your field of vision because HGH greatly improves eye muscularity which one of the residuals is greater perspective. Does that mean you are going to duck it or block it?; not necessarily but you will now see it.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. It would be silly to dismiss that PEDs don't enhance performance.

Yes, skills pay the bills, but boxing, among other things, is an endurance sport. If you can keep your Round 1 energy up until the final round, you are going to have an advantage.

There are drugs out there, or combinations of drugs, that increase power, stamina, punch resistance, peak performance, speed and much, much more.

A fighter woth no skill will just get more damage. But if you're already a good fighter, those aforementioned benefits can kick your career into another dimension.

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50766]Agreed. It would be silly to dismiss that PEDs don't enhance performance.

Yes, skills pay the bills, but boxing, among other things, is an endurance sport. If you can keep your Round 1 energy up until the final round, you are going to have an advantage.

There are drugs out there, or combinations of drugs, that increase power, stamina, punch resistance, peak performance, speed and much, much more.

A fighter woth no skill will just get more damage. But if you're already a good fighter, those aforementioned benefits can kick your career into another dimension.[/QUOTE]

Top-notch boxers are silly muthas then. Because PEDs don't enhance boxing performance one iota. Every fighters that got that syet in him did not get better. Find one fighter who got better because of PEDs.

In boxing, you are born with it all. Immature fighters used dat syet, but quit using it after they realize that it is of no account, but placebo effect for lazies or punkedified [$¡¢] fighters. [It didn't help Sugar Shane Mosley against Big Money Oscar. He already had beat BMO twice as an amateur. And it didn't SSM against the late, great Vernon "Viper" Forest. VVF had already beat SSM twice as an amateur. And da syet didn't help Roy Jones Jr against Antonio Tarver, because Tarver had already twice beat RJJ as an amateur.] That syet has zero magic in boksing. And once again, 75 percent of the fighters on dat syet LOSE. And 50 percent get KTFO.

No authentic scientist has ever concluded -- but disproved -- that that syet will works in hand-to-hand combat. BTW, a lot of fighters fought with bad vision or blinded in one eye. So if dat syet could and can make fighters see better, peddlers of it would have Money May type of pay.

I'm sure that you can get a junk-science scientist and more snake oil salesmen like V Conte to make all types of claims to make that money. But they cannot make or beat GOAT Alis, "Smokin' Joe Fraziers, Sugar Ray Robinsons, Willie Peps, Roberto Durans, Finto Lopezes, Cuban Willie Rigos or Andre "SOG" Wards.

You guys cannot find elite boxers -- amateurs and/or pros -- that will you tell that syet works. We kick roids and PEDs takers' arses every day of the week and 80 times on Sunday. Find a guinea pig and let him spar clean. And he will get his arse thrashed. And then put him on dat syet, and he will get his arse double fudge BEAT. Dat syet will not give him an iota of heat.

Just so that you will know, we clean, legit boxers hate arses on dat syet and single those muscle-bound arses out for terrible beatings.

As Sugar Ray Leonard once said: "l will feed a sucka dat stuff, and whup his @$$. In the pros and in the amateur, we know every fighter on dat syet and beat his arse.

Boxing is not like football, basketball or baseball. In those sports, you have a large pool of playas helping each other and making it. Not in boxing. Only about five percent of everyone whoever boxes win a world title from the BIG FIVE -- WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO and IBO -- aIphabet-sanctionng-organizations. Holla!

Skibbz says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50769]Top-notch boxers are silly muthas then. Because PEDs don't enhance boxing performance one iota. Every fighters that got that syet in him did not get better. Find one fighter who got better because of PEDs.

You guys cannot find elite boxers -- amateurs and/or pros -- that will you tell that syet works. We kick roids and PEDs takers' arses every day of the week and 80 times on Sunday. Find a guinea pig and let him spar clean. And he will get his arse thrashed. And then put him on dat syet, and he will get his arse double fudge BEAT. Dat syet will not give him an iota of heat.[/QUOTE]

I stand with RG on this. PEDs can't give you a punch. You either have the power in your fists or you don't. Proper technique will help you make the most of what you've got but there's no popeye medicine that can make you flashy! I've seen guys use some banned substances to help them make weight.. But those guys either shouldn't be fighting in the division or in most cases are too lazy to lose it the natural weigh so they have to cheat.

Either way that guy had to cheat to try gain the upper hand, but once he realises the substance doesn't turn him hulk and that punches still hurt, he'll be trying to find a way out.

Back to the Porter accusations, i'd be shocked beyond belief if it turns out he's positive for anything banned. He's a super fit athlete and he's got no problem moving his weight up or down. He's like RJJ in terms of his athleticism if you ask me.

Talking of RJJ and Porter.. Porter Thurman might look like Roy Jones Jeff Lacy.

Skibbz says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50769]Top-notch boxers are silly muthas then. Because PEDs don't enhance boxing performance one iota. Every fighters that got that syet in him did not get better. Find one fighter who got better because of PEDs.

You guys cannot find elite boxers -- amateurs and/or pros -- that will you tell that syet works. We kick roids and PEDs takers' arses every day of the week and 80 times on Sunday. Find a guinea pig and let him spar clean. And he will get his arse thrashed. And then put him on dat syet, and he will get his arse double fudge BEAT. Dat syet will not give him an iota of heat.[/QUOTE]

I stand with RG on this. PEDs can't give you a punch. You either have the power in your fists or you don't. Proper technique will help you make the most of what you've got but there's no popeye medicine that can make you flashy! I've seen guys use some banned substances to help them make weight.. But those guys either shouldn't be fighting in the division or in most cases are too lazy to lose it the natural weigh so they have to cheat.

Either way that guy had to cheat to try gain the upper hand, but once he realises the substance doesn't turn him hulk and that punches still hurt, he'll be trying to find a way out.

Back to the Porter accusations, i'd be shocked beyond belief if it turns out he's positive for anything banned. He's a super fit athlete and he's got no problem moving his weight up or down. He's like RJJ in terms of his athleticism if you ask me.

Talking of RJJ and Porter.. Porter Thurman might look like Roy Jones Jeff Lacy.

deepwater2 says:

Radam you know the reality of it. Good job.

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;50629]As for Paulie, I have really come to like him over the years. As a fellow Italian, I was a bit thrown off by his big mouth years and years back. However, as time progressed so did Paulie, and so did his consistent demeanor of fighting tough opposition.
I feel he is a great analyst and commentator. I look forward to him continuing that career.

I think he deserves a final fight against decent but not overwhelming opposition at home where he can retire on a win.

Or, he can take a year off and reevaluate himself and possibly fight here and there.[/QUOTE]


I agree his legs and reaction time seem to have diminished. And being half italian I have grown to like Paulie has he has matured.

The Pep-Sandler analogy is interesting because didn't Pep still have more left at this point of his career than Paulie?

I know he beat Sandler in their second bout, went down, later dislocated his shoulder in the 3rd, and then couldn't continue in very dirty fourth fight.

Idk maybe there is a way for Paulie to return to prime form and fight Porter again? I'd like to see him fight at least once more before he calls it quits.

Carmine Cas says:

As far a PEDs, I agree with DW, Skibbz, and RG but I think EPO definitely can help a fighter. With the added stamina, you retain punching power and speed throughout the fight while your opponent's wains.

But as far as increasing muscle mass that sh*t won't work, in fact it'll slow you down and throw off your timing. Any elite boxer will capitalize on that.

Carmine Cas says:

Diuretics are also used as a masking agent for other PEDS in addition to cutting weight

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;50775]Radam and Skibbz know the reality of it. Good job guys. Boxing is 90% mental, if you know you need to cheat to get an edge, it will be easier for you to be broken down. Some people think the substances are an enhancer. if it was some sport that you play, football , track Etc then maybe. You don't play boxing. Those substances do not enhance a boxer but make him more vulnerable. In boxing you have to use your soul to overcome obstacles when your body doesn't want to. Illegal substances damage the soul and the mental state worse than the damage they do to the body.[/QUOTE]

DITTO, you hit it BIG TIME! The soul and the mental state are damaged by that hyped-up, magical-pill jive. And it doesn't WORK! Because it does not and cannot tick or trick the soul of mankind. And if it could, believers of that nonsense would be going to Boot Hill to raise the dead. Holla!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;50787]As far a PEDs, I agree with DW, Skibbz, and RG but I think EPO definitely can help a fighter. With the added stamina, you retain punching power and speed throughout the fight while your opponent's wains.

But as far as increasing muscle mass that sh*t won't work, in fact it'll slow you down and throw off your timing. Any elite boxer will capitalize on that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's common sense.

The Commish says:

Even Sugar Ray Robinson lost. Several times. Stick around long enough, it happens. Porter just may be the guy to do it!

-Randy G.

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=The Commish;50852]Even Sugar Ray Robinson lost. Several times. Stick around long enough, it happens. Porter just may be the guy to do it!

-Randy G.[/QUOTE]

There's no shame in losing against the best, all the greats had loses; because they all fought each other.

That aspect of boxing is absent today.

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50792]Yeah, it's common sense.[/QUOTE]

I know too bad some of these fighters don't understand that.

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;50787]As far a PEDs, I agree with DW, Skibbz, and RG but I think EPO definitely can help a fighter. With the added stamina, you retain punching power and speed throughout the fight while your opponent's wains.

But as far as increasing muscle mass that sh*t won't work, in fact it'll slow you down and throw off your timing. Any elite boxer will capitalize on that.[/QUOTE]

Wow! There are tons of muscle illness people -- young and old -- incapable of building muscles for whatever problems. If that EPO is the secret key to add "stamina...and retain...power and speed," though, you guys should holla at the docs.

I'm reminded of this preacher trying to convince every egg head that an angel was in his house, and he has a feather that fell out of the angel's wing as proof. YUP! RIGHT!

Apparently this preacher does not know what angels' wings are made out of. I'm assuming that you guys know what EPO is made out of. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50946]Wow! There are tons of muscle illness people -- young and old -- incapable of building muscles for whatever problems. If that EPO is the secret key to add "stamina...and retain...power and speed," though, you guys should holla at the docs.

I'm reminded of this preacher trying to convince every egg head that an angel was in his house, and he has a feather that fell out of the angel's wing as proof. YUP! RIGHT!

Apparently this preacher does not know what angels' wings are made out of. I'm assuming that you guys know what EPO is made out of. Holla![/QUOTE]

Well played sir

Speaking about stamina, what are some good ways to build it? Nutrition, training techniques, daily habits etc

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;50955]Well played sir

Speaking about stamina, what are some good ways to build it? Nutrition, training techniques, daily habits etc[/QUOTE]

Diet/Nutrition is always number one. Dumping acidic foods and eating the right anabolic and catabolic ones at right time. And, of course drinking the proper amount of alkaline water and fruit liquids. Number two is mental attitude. And, YUP! Number three is proper training techniques. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50960]Diet/Nutrition is always number one. Dumping acidic foods and eating the right anabolic and catabolic ones at right time. And, of course drinking the proper amount of alkaline water and fruit liquids. Number two is mental attitude. And, YUP! Number three is proper training techniques. Holla![/QUOTE]

Thanks RG, I guess I can get all that information in the Random Topics section again?

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;51070]Thanks RG, I guess I can get all that information in the Random Topics section again?[/QUOTE]

Like he says, "why take a pill when you can holla at dill?" Lol

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50960]Diet/Nutrition is always number one. Dumping acidic foods and eating the right anabolic and catabolic ones at right time. And, of course drinking the proper amount of alkaline water and fruit liquids. Number two is mental attitude. And, YUP! Number three is proper training techniques. Holla![/QUOTE]

In all seriousness, if you wrote a cookbook/supplement/herbs/nutrition/training methods......book/manual

I would buy it


My nephew was diagnosed with Leukemia at 15, he is now 19 and just stopped taking daily chemo pills, biweekly and monthly chemo infusions and spinals. During this tough time myself and my family went into full research mode and had him drinking alkaline water and supplementing him with only organic products.....

All the stuff you say I am on board with.


Oh, as of today my nephew is solid, no cancer cells in his blood and does monthly checkups....

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