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LIKE MIKE: Is Floyd Mayweather the Michael Jordan of Boxing?

BY Kelsey McCarson ON April 21, 2014
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Is Floyd Mayweather the Michael Jordan of boxing?

According to Showtime boxing boss Stephen Espinoza, indeed he is.

“I think we’re going to appreciate Floyd more several years after he retires than maybe we do now,” Espinoza told The Sweet Science. “We all know, at his level of skill, it’s a challenge to find fighters that we think are going to be competitive. To me, he’s Michael Jordan.”Jordan led the NBA’s Chicago Bulls to six world championships. He was the best basketball player of a generation, earning five Most Valuable Player awards, ten All-NBA First Team designations, ten scoring titles, six NBA Finals MVP Awards, and a multitude of other honors during his playing career, which lasted from 1984 to 2003.

“There was a point when no one was going to stop Mike,” said Espinoza. “John Starks wasn’t stopping Michael Jordan. Bryon Russell wasn’t stopping him. Byron Scott wasn’t. Nobody could stop him. But nobody said, ‘We aren’t going to watch him because he’s too good...it’s too easy. We know the Bulls are going to repeat this year.’ No one said that.”

Espinoza said watching a Mayweather fight was akin to appreciating Jordan during his prime years: “This is an opportunity we have to see Jordan before he retires.”

Mayweather’s next bout is against upstart contender Marcos Maidana May 3 at the MGM in Las Vegas, Nevada. The bout will air live on Showtime PPV. Maidana upset Adrien Broner in 2013 to earn the Mayweather gig, and will be a huge underdog come fight night. Still, he was certainly the best choice of Mayweather’s likely options for the fight in that he absolutely pummeled the previously undefeated Broner in a fight very few thought he could win.

Unlike Mayweather, of course, Jordan was forced to face and defeat the best and most deserving contenders of his generation. Among the notable all-time greats Jordan defeated for NBA titles are Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Gary Payton and Karl Malone.

Unlike the NBA, boxing is not set up under one controlling entity. Where the NBA has a play-off system, boxing has a constant churn of competing promotions. Among other things, this has kept Mayweather from being able to face all the best fighters of his generation. Most notably, of course, is Manny Pacquiao.

“I don’t really doubt the fact that both Mayweather and Pacquiao want the fight right now. And to be clear, I know for a fact because of my prior work [legal advisor to Golden Boy Promotions] and my current work [Showtime VP], that Floyd Mayweather very much wanted the fight and has very much wanted the fight to happen since 2009.”

The reasons why the superfight has never been made depends on which side you ask. For his part, Espinoza says he knows for certain Mayweather has always wanted the fight. “Now, he’s also been very clear about certain issues of fairness and propriety and his personal feelings about Top Rank over the years, and these all play a role in this, but fundamentally if you ask me, does Floyd want the fight? He always has.”

Espinoza didn’t lay blame on Mayweather, but he didn’t pass the buck to Pacquiao either. “I can only assume that Manny, for his part, probably feels the same because he is an accomplished fighter. So, I don’t fault the fighters.”

I couldn’t help but ask if Espinoza was as sick of the Mayweather-Pacquiao topic as everyone else in the boxing world seems to be. Honestly, I only asked him about it since I’d never talked to him before and felt it was my duty, in a way, to ask what readers might want to know. His answer was not what I expected. “No one ever asks me about it anymore, so I’m happy to address it,” said Espinoza, surprisingly. “It’s funny, I don’t get too many opportunities to address it head on. Everyone just reprints what Bob Arum says...”

Regardless of the Mayweather-Pacquiao debacle, Mayweather has faced and defeated an impressive list of fighters during his undefeated career, including the late Diego Corrales, Ricky Hatton, Shane Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez and Miguel Cotto. Moreover, since he made the leap over from HBO to Showtime, he’s gone 2-0 against two good fighters. The more impressive of those two wins was against previously undefeated junior middleweight titlist Saul “Canelo” Alvarez, one of the brightest young stars in the sport. Mayweather beat Alvarez rather handily over 12 rounds, but the 23-year-old Mexican rebounded nicely by pulverizing tough slugger Alfredo Angulo earlier this year in 10.

Next up for Alvarez is another huge test: southpaw stylist Erislandy Lara, a fighter many have proposed might actually be one of Mayweather’s most dangerous possible future bouts. His Cuban style is not easily solved and he has good enough power to make fighters who choose to walk him down pay dearly.

“One thing that I don’t think Canelo gets enough credit for is his willingness to fight anybody," Espinoza said. "This is the second time in a relatively short period of time that he chose voluntarily [to fight] a guy who no one else is lining up to fight and one that maybe isn’t in his best financial interest. I think maybe because of his popularity, people underestimate his pride and his heart and the fact that he wants to fight the toughest guys out there even if it is not in his financial interest necessarily to do so.”

Thinking of the possibility of Mayweather-Lara, should the latter get by Alvarez, I asked Espinoza if Lara was a hard sell. “I don’t think Lara is a hard sell. When I said ‘not in his financial interest’, I was referring more to the [Austin] Trout fight. Canelo had Mayweather sort of looming in the background [then], and why take that risk for an awkward, left-handed fighter that wasn’t a big money payday?”

So, I reasoned, might Lara work his way into being a viable opponent for Mayweather should he have a good showing versus Alvarez? And could Showtime see Mayweather-Lara as a worthwhile promotion? Espinoza seemed to think so.

“Yeah, I know ‘Cuban’ has sort of, in some circles, become a bad word when it comes to boxers, but I don’t think that’s a fair characterization. Lara was very aggressive and very entertaining in the Angulo fight. That was a fight no one was bored by and it wasn’t just because Angulo was pressing the action. We knew when we made Lara-Trout that it might not be the best style matchup, but it was two top guys and a fight that needed to be made. The styles didn’t mesh particularly well, but that to me doesn’t take away from his long-term attractiveness as an opponent.”

So who knows? Maybe like Jordan’s last great years with the Bulls, two seasons which culminated in two world championships against the Utah Jazz’s John Stockton, Karl Malone and Bryon Russell, Lara will someday soon present Mayweather with a real and difficult challenge, too -- a final test of his greatness.

Jordan prevailed in the end.

Might Mayweather, too?

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Comment on this article

deepwater2 says:

Floyd has to win fighter of the decade first.
1910s: Sam Langford -- Small man beat the best big men of his day. Runner up: Jimmy Wilde.
1920s: Benny Leonard -- Some still say he’s the greatest lightweight ever. Runner up: Harry Greb.
1930s: Henry Armstrong -- Held titles in three weight classes simultaneously. Runner up: Tony Canzoneri.
1940s: Ray Robinson – Untouchable as a welterweight. Runner up: Willie Pep
1950s: Ray Robinson – Also one of the greatest middleweights ever. Runner up: Archie Moore.
1960s: Muhammad Ali – The Greatest really was the greatest at this time. Runner up: Carlos Ortiz.
1970s: Roberto Duran – Virtually untouchable as a lightweight. Runner up: Carlos Monzon.
1980s: Ray Leonard: His victories over Duran, Hearns and Hagler were epic. Runner up: Julio Cesar Chavez.
1990s: Roy Jones Jr. – At his best, he inspired awe. Runner up: Pernell Whitaker.
2000s: Manny Pacquiao – Sorry Floyd but you need to fight the best to be the best. Runner up: Floyd Mayweather.

ArneK. says:

I love to take a list like this and pick it apart, but I'll be darned, I can't fault any of Deepwater2's picks. Let me think about it awhile longer.

The Jordan-Mayweather comparison falls apart if we take it beyond the stages where they performed -- beyond the ring and the basketball court. When Jordan was the highest paid player in the game, it was said that he earned even more in endorsements. He still rakes in millions from endorsements today.

Thirty years from now, Mayweather may look back on the persona that he cultivated and conclude that he was penny-wise and pound-foolish.

vinnieq says:

Simply, No.
Jordan played against:
Bird & the Celtics
Magic & the Lakers
Stockton/Malone & the Jazz
etc etc

oubobcat says:

The problem with that analogy to me is that Mayweather never faced what would have been the toughest challenge of his career, Manny Pacquiao. We can debate the reasons why this never happened all we want but the fact of the matter is it did not happen. Jordan, on the otherhand, faced and defeated the best of his era (pains me to say that being a diehard Cavs fan).

deepwater2 says:

I was just thinking boxing but if you go with endorsements , Jordan has the sneakers and apparel, the steakhouses, the underwear,the movies etc. etc., it goes on and on vs TMT hats and T shirts. I did not watch that all access but heard about it from you guys. Could you ever picture MJ talking about the broads he bagged and such? No class. Jordan is always on the golf course with a fat Cuban cigar enjoying life. That guy earned it.
Interesting article I dug up from a cigar mag I read. Very interesting.

MRS: What was your original deal in Chicago?
JORDAN: Financially? People are going to love this. It was a seven-year deal. I averaged about $850,000 a year. The first year's compensation was $650,000. There was no signing bonus. We tried to get an attendance clause. They were averaging 6,000 people a game. So we thought, OK, we're going to ask for an attendance clause. At the time, Jonathan Kovler was the owner. My agent, David Falk, went in and asked for that. Kovler said, We're not going to give him an attendance clause because if we draft him at the three spot, he'd better put people in the seats. So they never gave us an attendance clause.


MRS: So for the first seven years, you didn't get a raise?
JORDAN: Nope, that was my deal.
MRS: Were you unhappy about that?
JORDAN: No, I wasn't unhappy. Money didn't drive me at that time, so I wasn't worried about it. Once I signed my contract, I felt like, Let's go out and earn the money. And, I was the highest-paid rookie at the time

Domenic says:

No chance. The best win of his career remains Diego Corrales. Many of his other signature wins were against guys with a lot of mileage. He's made scores of millions, and that's phenomenal. As a modern day athlete, he's made his mark on the Forbes list. But you can't buy legacy. That's the one that requires risk, or profiles in courage. He lacks in that department. A lot of people fault Wladimir Klitschko, and spew lots of venom his way. But the fact is he's ducked no one, and fought the murderous punching, prime Sam Peter when he was in the midst of his chinny period, and Peter was undefeated. You think Floyd would take that kind of risk? No way. And there's no problem with that. But you can't have it both ways. I think Floyd should have went after Pavlik at the tail end of his middleweight title run. KP was fragile at the time psychologically, and beatable. I think Floyd would have won that fight, and would've had the middleweight title. It would have been a historic, legacy defining fight. The guy's great, there's no question. Been watching him since 1998 against the great Genaro Hernandez. But I'd rank him behind Pacquiao historically. Bottom line, he was just too risk averse opponent-wise to be given a Jordan-esque stature.

The Shadow says:

No, Muhammad Ali is. You know, that lofty position where everyone, knowledgable or not, considers you the greatest with no dispute.

He's more like a rich man version of Isaiah Thomas (with Michael Jordan talent); an iconic, legendary champion who played the villain role, ruffled a lot of feathers, set some amazing marks and ultimately didn't get the credit he deserved.

MisterLee says:

The Bulls never asked the Lakers for a larger purse, blood testing, and to walk in second... oh yeah, and Michael Jordan was also POPULAR among everyone young and old.

amayseng says:

Wow what an insult to Michael Jordan. I mean a serious insult..

who said this? wow

Radam G says:

Darn, MisterLee! Hehe! That was COLD.

I feel the CHILL. Money May wouldn't fight Jack, but he would fight his babies' mommas -- I mean JILL.

I don't know if he could wear Mike's jockstrap. But he can scrap. Holla!

the Roast says:

Yeah, MJ was and still is a global icon. There is almost nobody on Jordan's level. On the court Jordan was a killer, ruthless, win it all or go home. Living in Chicago at just the right age I saw the whole thing. From his rookie year I was going to games and just watching every move he made, with or without the ball. Floyd doesn't compare on any level.
Lets never speak of this again.

SouthPawFlo says:

I think Floyd's Outside the ring persona sometimes blinds people to in his in ring brilliance, even though Jordan was wildly wealthy he was more know for his talent and competitiveness than his financial exploits.. Ever since 2007 when Mayweather started calling himself "Money" he's had more people watching him hoping he loses...


I do believe that Mayweather is a level ahead of 99% of boxers in the game, but if he was more humble people would appreciate it more...

Radam G says:

I think Floyd's Outside the ring persona sometimes blinds people to in his in ring brilliance, even though Jordan was wildly wealthy he was more know for his talent and competitiveness than his financial exploits.. Ever since 2007 when Mayweather started calling himself "Money" he's had more people watching him hoping he loses...


I do believe that Mayweather is a level ahead of 99% of boxers in the game, but if he was more humble people would appreciate it more...


These same people would not notice him, and still not appreciate him, if he were not a nuisance. Being what and who he is, is what bring the haters and curious running with BIG pay to see him play. Holla!

The Shadow says:

The Bulls never asked the Lakers for a larger purse, blood testing, and to walk in second... oh yeah, and Michael Jordan was also POPULAR among everyone young and old.


C'mon man, that's cold. Be fair. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3854403

Different games, different rules.

Definitely Michael Jordan in terms of impact and talent. Thomas in terms of likability.

Also, his public persona aside, Jordan was a grade-A prick with no peer. And I'm a HUGE Jordan fan.

One time in Washington when he was playing for the Wizard, he was hanging out in a local club like those NBA guys like to do.

A fan comes up to Jordan's table with his girlfriend, hoping to meet him and maybe get an autograph. The married Jordan dismisses him, asks his girl in instead, throws the guy out, SCREWS the girl and ruins the relationship.

Yeh, she was a b*tch and dude probably deserved better but that's not exactly a good way to endear yourself to fans.

Another time, rapper Chamillionaire, a massive Mike mark, was at an auction for MJ, bidding on Jordan items. The rapper ended up overpaying for a NC jersey, I believe.

Seven stacks lighter, Chamillionaire saw Jordan hanging out, taking pictures with various women, getting his mack on.

As His Airness was taking a break from his tail chasing and just chillin' with some mutual friends, Chamillionaire humbly approached his hero Jordan about taking a picture with him, seeing as he had just bought one of his jerseys.

"Hell no," Jordan said, loudly. "I don't take pictures with no niggas!"

Jordan was surrounded by Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Spike Lee who all looked embarrassed by the ordeal. "Mike, chill, chill, chill, that's Chamillionaire, he's a big fan and he just supported your action!"

"I don't give a f***! Nigga!"

Jordan then, in a bullying manner, leaned over the rapper in a threatening manner and said, "I'll tell you what. You buy a jersey from me now for $15,000 and I'll take a picture with you!"

Chamillionaire walked off humiliated and heartbroken to see his childhood idol totally tear apart that image he had of him.

As word got back to corporate, Jordan Brand later reached out to Chamillionaire to apologize and offered him free shoes to make things right.

An interesting aside: Jordan freely poses with Macklemore, Justin Bieber and random white dudes. So I guess he's a man of his word. Lol.

He's also been known to be mean to kids asking for autographs, abusing staff, and being a notorious cheap skate who never tips. Whenever Charles Barkley tries to give a homeless person money, Jordan slaps his hand.

"If they can beg, they can just as easily say 'welcome to McDonald's, how can I be of service.'"

Ttally the opposite of his image. By comparison -- and I've experienced this firsthand -- Floyd tips generously.

Also, after the Cotto fight, after I had filed my story, I was standing outside the hotel of his after party with my homeboy, which was hosted by 50 Cent and Kevin Hart which = lots of hot mamas.

As we're plotting how to get in, because the line is ridiculous, Floyd's crew, which was the biggest sausage fest caravan I had ever seen in my life -- 50 dudes deep, easy -- said, "roll with us."

Next thing you know we're walking through the hotel like we're kings. An hour or so earlier I had actually "interviewed" 50 Cent (interviewed = asking two questions at the post-fight press conference and then being politely ignored).

It was freakin' surreal. If you've ever hung out in the "urban" nightlife scene, you'll know that dudes NEVER EVER show any kind of kindness to other guys -- as evidenced by Jordan's stories.

Floyd just said, "roll with us" and then he goes and gives money to the people in the club.

Frivolous? Perhaps. But he's not as bad as he's being made to be.

And Jordan is about as far from his image in real life as you can get.

Radam G says:

Danggit! The $hadow, ease up! It is cold telling about 50-percent real Mike.

In ur minute, nobody is going to wanna be like Mike. He aight! He was just going through a bad emotional time. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

Let's never speak of this again.

God, I love it.

deepwater2 says:

[QUOTE=dino da vinci;50170]Let's never speak of this again.

God, I love it.[/QUOTE]

The n word has no place in a Jordan thread

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;50179]The n word has no place in a Jordan thread[/QUOTE]

I feel you but it was Jordan who said it and in a discriminatory fashion at that.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50169]Danggit! The $hadow, ease up! It is cold telling about 50-percent real Mike.

In ur minute, nobody is going to wanna be like Mike. He aight! He was just going through a bad emotional time. Holla![/QUOTE]

Sure has lasted a while! This is from his Chicago days up until now. He's a true SOB, it's almost comical.

Floyd ain't no saint either, though. He seemed happier to take on Baby Mama Josie than dudes like Sergio Martinez.

finesse3000 says:

So far, yes he is the Michael Jordan of Boxing. For all you sticklers of comparisons it could be an unfair analogy to ALL combat sports athletes to be compared to other athletes. Combat athletes have NO team members or substitutes to help them. For all you Pacquiao supporters read this: [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/manny-pacquiao-39-credibility-issue-165400814--box.html Base your opinion on facts supported by history,not your feelings about cocky successful black men.

The Good Doctor says:

[QUOTE=finesse3000;50196]So far, yes he is the Michael Jordan of Boxing. For all you sticklers of comparisons it could be an unfair analogy to ALL combat sports athletes to be compared to other athletes. Combat athletes have NO team members or substitutes to help them. For all you Pacquiao supporters read this: [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/manny-pacquiao-39-credibility-issue-165400814--box.html Base your opinion on facts supported by history,not your feelings about cocky successful black men.[/QUOTE]

Like your passion dude, but since you say facts, lets look at facts:

Michael Jordan by most pundits and experts is regarded as the best to ever play basketball. You will hear arguments for Magic, Big O, Bird, Wilt, and a handful of others but even most of them recognize MJ as the best. There are huge arguments against Floyd being one of the 5 best ever.

Michael Jordan by himself, took Nike to the number one sports brand in the world. That is according to Phil Knight, not me.

Michael Jordan beat a ton of his best contemporaries on the biggest stage when they were near or at the height of their careers: Magic, Karl Malone, Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Clyde Drexler, Barkley, Gary Payton and a host of others. Now you say basketball players benefit from teams that help them against competition which is true, however boxers get to choose their competition and often the dynamics of having to face that competition.


Now, I absolutely love the exploits of both of them within their sport. Outside of their sport, they are both very complex individuals. Floyd runs two charities and hosts fund raisers all the time but has had major trouble with the tax man and been to the clink. MJ gave every brand new pair of shoes he wore after a game to charity for them to auction. He also paid for several basketball camps throughout the country but he punched teammates, cheated on his wife, and was awful to service people. I say all of this because I could give a flip about their personal lives because they are practically the same dude outside their craft and I can compartmentalize that so it doesn't skew my opinion.

Also, I see that you are new to the site so I want to say welcome and please post your feelings to your heart's content. With that being said, you will see real quickly that intelligence rules this forum, not emotion. The whole people hate Floyd because they are Pacquiao supporters thing doesn't fly here. Even the most ardent of Pac supporters on this board realize the exploits of Floyd.

Lastly, I am a successful, sometimes cocky, proud black man so game peeps game. That doesn't cloud my judgement because it would be like rooting against myself.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=The Good Doctor;50197]Like your passion dude, but since you say facts, lets look at facts:

Michael Jordan by most pundits and experts is regarded as the best to ever play basketball. You will hear arguments for Magic, Big O, Bird, Wilt, and a handful of others but even most of them recognize MJ as the best. There are huge arguments against Floyd being one of the 5 best ever.

Michael Jordan by himself, took Nike to the number one sports brand in the world. That is according to Phil Knight, not me.

Michael Jordan beat a ton of his best contemporaries on the biggest stage when they were near or at the height of their careers: Magic, Karl Malone, Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Clyde Drexler, Barkley, Gary Payton and a host of others. Now you say basketball players benefit from teams that help them against competition which is true, however boxers get to choose their competition and often the dynamics of having to face that competition.

Floyd, like it or not, could have been much, much greater and has had an opportunity to make this a legitimate question. He squandered it.

Now, I absolutely love the exploits of both of them within their sport. Outside of their sport, they are both very complex individuals. Floyd runs two charities and hosts fund raisers all the time but has had major trouble with the tax man and been to the clink. MJ gave every brand new pair of shoes he wore after a game to charity for them to auction. He also paid for several basketball camps throughout the country but he punched teammates, cheated on his wife, and was awful to service people. I say all of this because I could give a flip about their personal lives because they are practically the same dude outside their craft and I can compartmentalize that so it doesn't skew my opinion.

Also, I see that you are new to the site so I want to say welcome and please post your feelings to your heart's content. With that being said, you will see real quickly that intelligence rules this forum, not emotion. The whole people hate Floyd because they are Pacquiao supporters thing doesn't fly here. Even the most ardent of Pac supporters on this board realize the exploits of Floyd.

Lastly, I am a successful, sometimes cocky, proud black man so game peeps game. That doesn't cloud my judgement because it would be like rooting against myself.[/QUOTE]

This is why I love you.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=finesse3000;50196]So far, yes he is the Michael Jordan of Boxing. For all you sticklers of comparisons it could be an unfair analogy to ALL combat sports athletes to be compared to other athletes. Combat athletes have NO team members or substitutes to help them. For all you Pacquiao supporters read this: [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/manny-pacquiao-39-credibility-issue-165400814--box.html Base your opinion on facts supported by history,not your feelings about cocky successful black men.[/QUOTE]

But I can dig this, too. Interesting read and breakdown of the facts surrounding this pathetic soap opera.

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50191]Sure has lasted a while! This is from his Chicago days up until now. He's a true SOB, it's almost comical.

Floyd ain't no saint either, though, baby mama drama and all.[/QUOTE]

Naaa! He's not "a true SOB." The way that he lost his pops changed him.

The GOAT Ali once was in a bad mood and waved a kid outta his face. The kid has been told by the late, great GBGOAT Angie Dundee to holla at the GOAT and show the GOAT a photo that the kid have taken with GBGOAT Angie D.

When the GOAT Ali did this, the kid cried like bytch and was heart broken. GOAT Ali's photographer -- his name slips my mind right now -- consoled the kid. But GOAT Ali held his ground.

I went and spoke to the kid. He was much older than I. He showed me the picture of GBGOAT Angie D., and himself and told me what GBGOAT Angie D. told him to do.

I went to holla at the GOAT, but the GOAT has sneaked away with some fine mama-jamma hammas.

Cutting the story short, when I did holla at the GOAT, after he got finished with his sex-a-thon, he found the info on the kid, apologized and invited the kid to his training camp in the P-State. (The GOAT trained for his very last bout there.)

I'm not making excuses for Mike. We are boys. He is a bit moody, and has been since a black dude shot his sleeping-in-his-car pops on the highway. Mike never thought that "[N-word] would do that." I've been hanging out with Mike for years at the casinos. He's no SOB! Just snappy and confused youngish black cats. Holla!

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50191]Sure has lasted a while! This is from his Chicago days up until now. He's a true SOB, it's almost comical.

Floyd ain't no saint either, though, baby mama drama and all.[/QUOTE]

Naaa! He's not "a true SOB." The way that he lost his pops changed him.

The GOAT Ali once was in a bad mood and waved a kid outta his face. The kid has been told by the late, great GBGOAT Angie Dundee to holla at the GOAT and show the GOAT a photo that the kid have taken with GBGOAT Angie D.

When the GOAT Ali did this, the kid cried like bytch and was heart broken. GOAT Ali's photographer -- his name slips my mind right now -- consoled the kid. But GOAT Ali held his ground.

I went and spoke to the kid. He was much older than I. He showed me the picture of GBGOAT Angie D., and himself and told me what GBGOAT Angie D. told him to do.

I went to holla at the GOAT, but the GOAT has sneaked away with some fine mama-jamma hammas.

Cutting the story short, when I did holla at the GOAT, after he got finished with his sex-a-thon, he found the info on the kid, apologized and invited the kid to his training camp in the P-State. (The GOAT trained for his very last bout there.)

I'm not making excuses for Mike. We are boys. He is a bit moody, and has been since a black dude shot his sleeping-in-his-car pops on the highway. Mike never thought that "[N-word] would do that." I've been hanging out with Mike for years at the casinos. He's no SOB! Just snappy and confused youngish black cats. Holla!

ArneK. says:

If we are going to compare Mayweather to athletes in other sports, let me submit the name Edwin Moses. The great 400-meter hurdler won 122 consecutive races between 1977 and 1987. He was a newsmaker in a sport that wasn't newsworthy, at least not in his native country.

The money that Edwin Moses made in appearance fees dwarfed that of others in his field. And here's the kicker: Near the end of his undefeated run, critics charged that he picked his spots carefully, ducking hurdlers that might have defeated him.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=ArneK.;50217]If we are going to compare Mayweather to athletes in other sports, let me submit the name Edwin Moses. The great 400-meter hurdler won 122 consecutive races between 1977 and 1987. He was a newsmaker in a sport that wasn't newsworthy, at least not in his native country.

The money that Edwin Moses made in appearance fees dwarfed that of others in his field. And here's the kicker: Near the end of his undefeated run, critics charged that he picked his spots carefully, ducking hurdlers that might have defeated him.[/QUOTE]

Wow! I remember Edwin! (Or, I remember reading about him when I was little...)

That's an interesting and very apt comparison.

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=ArneK.;50217]If we are going to compare Mayweather to athletes in other sports, let me submit the name Edwin Moses. The great 400-meter hurdler won 122 consecutive races between 1977 and 1987. He was a newsmaker in a sport that wasn't newsworthy, at least not in his native country.

The money that Edwin Moses made in appearance fees dwarfed that of others in his field. And here's the kicker: Near the end of his undefeated run, critics charged that he picked his spots carefully, ducking hurdlers that might have defeated him.[/QUOTE]

I saw and knew Moses toward the near end of his undefeated streak. And I will say that haters were just hatin' and needed to feel important by yapping falsehoods.They felt entitled. And the critics failed to mentioned that Moses winning times were also faster than the no hopers' times who he allegedly was ducking.

Moses was running in the low something, while dudes who he was allegedly ducking were doing in the late 48 $e¢s and even 50$, as a kid Radam recalls.

It reminds me of no hoper Luis Collazo calling out Money May. Thurman calling Money May. Even some no-hoper from South Africa calling out Money May. All these suckas, Money May will make pay.

Wanting that BIG moolah, made and will always make no hopers and critics sing like a collected lark. But louder than dogs with sore throats, da suckas can't bark. They are all about the talk, and can never walk the walk. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50167]C'mon man, that's cold. Be fair. [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3854403

Different games, different rules.

Definitely Michael Jordan in terms of impact and talent. Thomas in terms of likability.

Also, his public persona aside, Jordan was a grade-A prick with no peer. And I'm a HUGE Jordan fan.

One time in Washington when he was playing for the Wizard, he was hanging out in a local club like those NBA guys like to do.

A fan comes up to Jordan's table with his girlfriend, hoping to meet him and maybe get an autograph. The married Jordan dismisses him, asks his girl in instead, throws the guy out, SCREWS the girl and ruins the relationship.

Yeh, she was a b*tch and dude probably deserved better but that's not exactly a good way to endear yourself to fans.

Another time, rapper Chamillionaire, a massive Mike mark, was at an auction for MJ, bidding on Jordan items. The rapper ended up overpaying for a NC jersey, I believe.

Seven stacks lighter, Chamillionaire saw Jordan hanging out, taking pictures with various women, getting his mack on.

As His Airness was taking a break from his tail chasing and just chillin' with some mutual friends, Chamillionaire humbly approached his hero Jordan about taking a picture with him, seeing as he had just bought one of his jerseys.

"Hell no," Jordan said, loudly. "I don't take pictures with no niggas!"

Jordan was surrounded by Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Spike Lee who all looked embarrassed by the ordeal. "Mike, chill, chill, chill, that's Chamillionaire, he's a big fan and he just supported your action!"

"I don't give a f***! Nigga!"

Jordan then, in a bullying manner, leaned over the rapper in a threatening manner and said, "I'll tell you what. You buy a jersey from me now for $15,000 and I'll take a picture with you!"

Chamillionaire walked off humiliated and heartbroken to see his childhood idol totally tear apart that image he had of him.

As word got back to corporate, Jordan Brand later reached out to Chamillionaire to apologize and offered him free shoes to make things right.

An interesting aside: Jordan freely poses with Macklemore, Justin Bieber and random white dudes. So I guess he's a man of his word. Lol.

He's also been known to be mean to kids asking for autographs, abusing staff, and being a notorious cheap skate who never tips. Whenever Charles Barkley tries to give a homeless person money, Jordan slaps his hand.

"If they can beg, they can just as easily say 'welcome to McDonald's, how can I be of service.'"

Ttally the opposite of his image. By comparison -- and I've experienced this firsthand -- Floyd tips generously.

Also, after the Cotto fight, after I had filed my story, I was standing outside the hotel of his after party with my homeboy, which was hosted by 50 Cent and Kevin Hart which = lots of hot mamas.

As we're plotting how to get in, because the line is ridiculous, Floyd's crew, which was the biggest sausage fest caravan I had ever seen in my life -- 50 dudes deep, easy -- said, "roll with us."

Next thing you know we're walking through the hotel like we're kings. An hour or so earlier I had actually "interviewed" 50 Cent (interviewed = asking two questions at the post-fight press conference and then being politely ignored).

It was freakin' surreal. If you've ever hung out in the "urban" nightlife scene, you'll know that dudes NEVER EVER show any kind of kindness to other guys -- as evidenced by Jordan's stories.

Floyd just said, "roll with us" and then he goes and gives money to the people in the club.

Frivolous? Perhaps. But he's not as bad as he's being made to be.

And Jordan is about as far from his image in real life as you can get.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I read about the Chamillionare incident, one of my friends is a gymnastics instructor, he told me one of his student's father ran into Mike in an elevator.

He asked for an autograph, "Blow me" was the response he got lol. This guy was white too, I know it's he say she say, but it does not look good for Mike.

The icing on the cake is that his shoes cost an arm and a leg when a lot of customers are from lower income families in the inner city.

I don't know him personally but I'm not his biggest fan

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=the Roast;50150]Yeah, MJ was and still is a global icon. There is almost nobody on Jordan's level. On the court Jordan was a killer, ruthless, win it all or go home. Living in Chicago at just the right age I saw the whole thing. From his rookie year I was going to games and just watching every move he made, with or without the ball. Floyd doesn't compare on any level.
Lets never speak of this again.[/QUOTE]

LOL great post!

amayseng says:

I can't even discuss this subject, there is NO comparison.

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;50247]I can't even discuss this subject, there is NO comparison.[/QUOTE]

With the way their respective sports are set up, it's impossible to compare the two

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;50241]Yeah I read about the Chamillionare incident, one of my friends is a gymnastics instructor, he told me one of his student's father ran into Mike in an elevator.

He asked for an autograph, "Blow me" was the response he got lol. This guy was white too, I know it's he say she say, but it does not look good for Mike.

The icing on the cake is that his shoes cost an arm and a leg when a lot of customers are from lower income families in the inner city.

I don't know him personally but I'm not his biggest fan[/QUOTE]

LMAO "blow me?!"

Nike better have sent that student's pops some kicks! Lol that's hilarious, he's such an a$$.

I totally don't doubt he said that at all. After he drafted high schooler Kwame Brown with the 1st pick just before un-retiring, he tried to mold the teenager into a superstar.

When it became obvious he wasn't going to produce immediately, Jordan tortured the kid psychologically, bringing him to tears and then calling him a "flaming faggot" -- which would become Jordan's nickname for him.

Needless to say, the kid never made it. But hey, it's a dog eat dog world.

Radam G says:

"Dog eat dog world." Danggit, you are all up in my boy's syet.

Chamillionaire rolled up on the great one the wrong way. You don't interrupt sombody's flow, cut off other people and expect for somebody to drop everything that he is doing and give you the stage. You be respectful and wait, or maybe send a servant or flunkie over to tell the great who you are and what you want and expect.

Fans will cut through other people and knock them over rushing for you. This is why the greats need a detail of big uglies ready to halt the eager fan[$]. And bust their arses if need to be.

Chamillionaire is a star rapper. He is probably exaggerating, so that he can eventually put that syet in a rap song. If he hasn't already done so.

It ain't so about Mike! And it is a Santa Claus! And Easter bunnies. And a land of OZ.

Toto, Toto! I don't think that we are in Kansas anymore. Hehehe! Have we ever been there? Holla!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50267]"Dog eat dog world." Danggit, you are all up in my boy's syet.

Chamillionaire rolled up on the great one the wrong way. You don't interrupt sombody's flow, cut off other people and expect for somebody to drop everything that he is doing and give you the stage. You be respectful and wait, or maybe send a servant or flunkie over to tell the great who you are and what you want and expect.

Fans will cut through other people and knock them over rushing for you. This is why the greats need a detail of big uglies ready to halt the eager fan[$]. And bust their arses if need to be.

Chamillionaire is a star rapper. He is probably exaggerating, so that he can eventually put that syet in a rap song. If he hasn't already done so.

It ain't so about Mike! And it is a Santa Claus! And Easter bunnies. And a land of OZ.

Toto, Toto! I don't think that we are in Kansas anymore. Hehehe! Have we ever been there? Holla![/QUOTE]

I hear ya. Either way it's a great story. Found the video, check it out. He seems like a very humble, down to earth, honest dude: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZQERHL6ow

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50270]I hear ya. Either way it's a great story. Found the video, check it out. He seems like a very humble, down to earth, honest dude: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZQERHL6ow[/QUOTE]

I dig how you can always come up with the actuality of the reality. Solid stuff. Holla!

Radam G says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50270]I hear ya. Either way it's a great story. Found the video, check it out. He seems like a very humble, down to earth, honest dude: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZQERHL6ow[/QUOTE]

I dig how you can always come up with the actuality of the reality. Solid stuff. Holla!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;50278]I dig how you can always come up with the actuality of the reality. Solid stuff. Holla![/QUOTE]

Thank you, Radam

The Commish says:

Great post, Shadow. Great post

-Randy G.

ArneK. says:

Here's where the Jordan-Mayweather comparison really falls apart:

Including commemorative issues, Michael Jordan has appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated 57 times, the most of any athlete (Muhammad Ali is second with 38).

How often has Floyd Mayweather, Jr. made the cover of S.I.? The answer is a big fat zero.

Michael Jordan transcended his sport, becoming a global celebrity. Mayweather makes a lot of money, but his star will never shine as brightly.

brownsugar says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50167]C'mon man, that's cold. Be fair. [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3854403

Different games, different rules.

Definitely Michael Jordan in terms of impact and talent. Thomas in terms of likability.

Also, his public persona aside, Jordan was a grade-A prick with no peer. And I'm a HUGE Jordan fan.

One time in Washington when he was playing for the Wizard, he was hanging out in a local club like those NBA guys like to do.

A fan comes up to Jordan's table with his girlfriend, hoping to meet him and maybe get an autograph. The married Jordan dismisses him, asks his girl in instead, throws the guy out, SCREWS the girl and ruins the relationship.

Yeh, she was a b*tch and dude probably deserved better but that's not exactly a good way to endear yourself to fans.

Another time, rapper Chamillionaire, a massive Mike mark, was at an auction for MJ, bidding on Jordan items. The rapper ended up overpaying for a NC jersey, I believe.

Seven stacks lighter, Chamillionaire saw Jordan hanging out, taking pictures with various women, getting his mack on.

As His Airness was taking a break from his tail chasing and just chillin' with some mutual friends, Chamillionaire humbly approached his hero Jordan about taking a picture with him, seeing as he had just bought one of his jerseys.

"Hell no," Jordan said, loudly. "I don't take pictures with no niggas!"

Jordan was surrounded by Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Spike Lee who all looked embarrassed by the ordeal. "Mike, chill, chill, chill, that's Chamillionaire, he's a big fan and he just supported your action!"

"I don't give a f***! Nigga!"

Jordan then, in a bullying manner, leaned over the rapper in a threatening manner and said, "I'll tell you what. You buy a jersey from me now for $15,000 and I'll take a picture with you!"

Chamillionaire walked off humiliated and heartbroken to see his childhood idol totally tear apart that image he had of him.

As word got back to corporate, Jordan Brand later reached out to Chamillionaire to apologize and offered him free shoes to make things right.

An interesting aside: Jordan freely poses with Macklemore, Justin Bieber and random white dudes. So I guess he's a man of his word. Lol.

He's also been known to be mean to kids asking for autographs, abusing staff, and being a notorious cheap skate who never tips. Whenever Charles Barkley tries to give a homeless person money, Jordan slaps his hand.

"If they can beg, they can just as easily say 'welcome to McDonald's, how can I be of service.'"

Ttally the opposite of his image. By comparison -- and I've experienced this firsthand -- Floyd tips generously.

Also, after the Cotto fight, after I had filed my story, I was standing outside the hotel of his after party with my homeboy, which was hosted by 50 Cent and Kevin Hart which = lots of hot mamas.

As we're plotting how to get in, because the line is ridiculous, Floyd's crew, which was the biggest sausage fest caravan I had ever seen in my life -- 50 dudes deep, easy -- said, "roll with us."

Next thing you know we're walking through the hotel like we're kings. An hour or so earlier I had actually "interviewed" 50 Cent (interviewed = asking two questions at the post-fight press conference and then being politely ignored).

It was freakin' surreal. If you've ever hung out in the "urban" nightlife scene, you'll know that dudes NEVER EVER show any kind of kindness to other guys -- as evidenced by Jordan's stories.

Floyd just said, "roll with us" and then he goes and gives money to the people in the club.

Frivolous? Perhaps. But he's not as bad as he's being made to be.

And Jordan is about as far from his image in real life as you can get.[/QUOTE]

Hey Shadow I really enjoyed this post when I read it several days ago. Just didn't have time to comment. I feel that Jordan got it right with his response " I don't take no pictures with no niggas " ... He was simply using the most ambiguous word in the English vocabulary (multiple connotations of the word exists depending who, when and where its being used).... to advise Chamillionare that he didn't want to bothered by some random dude when he was on his personal time.

Chammillionare ( a man who might be valued financially at only one fiftieth of Jordan's networth) continued to insinuate himself into Jordan's personal space by throwing his paltry $7000.00 expenditure up in Jordan's face like it really mattered to a guy who literally can generate that kind of cash at will in a matter of seconds).

Chamillionares actions were rude and invasive...he should have known to leave grown folks alone while they are out on the town in a non publicising capacity.

But he said to himself... "Oh that's Jordan I'm gonna go get something from him" .....instead of minding his own business after Jordan gave him a obvious hint that he didn't want to be bothered.


I believe RG said something similar on an earlier post and he was 100% spot on.
I remember seeing Wilt Chamberlain in a bar in Hawaii several decades ago.
Me and my buddies were on shore leave and had every intention of partying until the sun came up.

So we entered a bar and Wilt is standing up against the bar... actually he was partially sitting on the bar. I mean the bar was about five feet high and came up to chest level to me an Wilt is sitting his butt on the end of the bar. Thats how tall he was.
But you didn't have to be a psychologist of body language to know to stay away from him.
His arms and legs were crossed ... He had a mad scowl on his face and he was holding his chin.
We just stayed away from him.
He was with three wild chicks who were dancing with me and my two buds ... ... I could see the non verbal language between Wilt and his girls even on the dance floor.... I went from thinking I might get lucky to realizing the truth that the chicks were simply on "loan" until the bar closed.
There were 3of us .. all of us drunk yet we knew not to approach the guy.
Bottom line.. Its just not smart to ignore the obvious signals that someone doesn't want to be bothered

Mike played 48 rounds of golf with Charles Barkley and bought him a $20,000 earing in between championship play off games.
Someone told Mike that he really must like Barkley.... Mike said " I hate that fat fu@k... I just wanted him to stay off me for the rest of the Playoff".

There are tons of stories about Mike... a lot of bad behavior but most of it is related to basketball and his competitive nature like when he told Mugsy Bowles ...while he was trying to take a game winning shot..." Shoot the ball you fu@king midget".... Mugsy missed.

Is Floyd the Michael Jordan of boxing ... I hope not.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=brownsugar;50479]Hey Shadow I really enjoyed this post when I read it several days ago. Just didn't have time to comment. I feel that Jordan got it right with his response " I don't take no pictures with no niggas " ... He was simply using the most ambiguous word in the English vocabulary (multiple connotations of the word exists depending who, when and where its being used).... to advise Chamillionare that he didn't want to bothered by some random dude when he was on his personal time.

Chammillionare ( a man who might be valued financially at only one fiftieth of Jordan's networth) continued to insinuate himself into Jordan's personal space by throwing his paltry $7000.00 expenditure up in Jordan's face like it really mattered to a guy who literally can generate that kind of cash at will in a matter of seconds).

Chamillionares actions were rude and invasive...he should have known to leave grown folks alone while they are out on the town in a non publicising capacity.

But he said to himself... "Oh that's Jordan I'm gonna go get something from him" .....instead of minding his own business after Jordan gave him a obvious hint that he didn't want to be bothered.


I believe RG said something similar on an earlier post and he was 100% spot on.
I remember seeing Wilt Chamberlain in a bar in Hawaii several decades ago.
Me and my buddies were on shore leave and had every intention of partying until the sun came up.

So we entered a bar and Wilt is standing up against the bar... actually he was partially sitting on the bar. I mean the bar was about five feet high and came up to chest level to me an Wilt is sitting his butt on the end of the bar. Thats how tall he was.
But you didn't have to be a psychologist of body language to know to stay away from him.
His arms and legs were crossed ... He had a mad scowl on his face and he was holding his chin.
We just stayed away from him.
He was with three wild chicks who were dancing with me and my two buds ... ... I could see the non verbal language between Wilt and his girls even on the dance floor.... I went from thinking I might get lucky to realizing the truth that the chicks were simply on "loan" until the bar closed.
There were 3of us .. all of us drunk yet we knew not to approach the guy.
Bottom line.. Its just not smart to ignore the obvious signals that someone doesn't want to be bothered

Mike played 48 rounds of golf with Charles Barkley and bought him a $20,000 earing in between the championship play off games.
Someone told Mike that he really must like Barkley.... Mike said " I hate that fat fu@k... I just wanted him to stay off me for the rest of the Playoff".

There are tons of stories about Mike... a lot of bad behavior but most of it is related to basketball and his competitive nature like when he told Mugsy Bowles ...while he was trying to take a game winning shot..." Shoot the ball you fu@king midget".... Mugsy missed.

Is Floyd the Michael Jordan of boxing ... I hope not.[/QUOTE]

Awesome story, Suge! And I totally hear you. Still, check out the video, he explains the situation himself a lot better than I did. If anything, it's quite interesting.

And yes, there are tons of stories about Mike.

But having played sports all of my life, you have to be an a-hole, or at least have the ability to channel one momentarily, to really reach the elite level.

Think about it.

In professional sports, you have to be completely selfish. The world has to revolve origins you. You have to be competitive to the point where a non-competitive person wouldn't like you, at least when you're in competition mode. You have to have self-confidence bordering carefully on narcissistic delusion.

You have to visualize yourself in situations, picturing yourself as an uber-human, pulling off feats no one else can.

Many athletes can turn this on and off, but the hubris always latently lingers beneath the surface.

Others, such as the pathologically competitive guys like Jordan and noted narcissist (I'm not hating, this is from firsthand accounts) Kobe Bryant, let their drive consume them.

Jordan has acknowledged this also. "He's cursed the same way I'm cursed," His Airness said about Bryant.

While this brings them to the level, it also tends to let this uber-superman alter ego become and identity and thus consume and permeate their lives altogether.

I'm not judging them. It's just human nature.

I've often mentioned how I think I'm the greatest foosball player alive lol. I truly believe that even if Jesus himself descended from heaven and took me on, miracles or not, I'd beat him 10-2, at worst.

Now imagine if foosball was actually a real sport that captured the adulation of the world...Equally blasphemous, Tyson Fury truly believe he would beat Muhammad Ali. But in order to become as successful as he wants, he HAS to believe this.

Lance Armstrong was a NOTORIOUS a-hole as well.

Can't say I don't understand. If you beat DEATH, recover and then just fukn crushed everybody else -- on a level playing field, like it was -- it's really hard to stay grounded, at least inside the realm of your athletic life.

"Cancer can't **** with me...Jan Ullrich must be trippin'...What's this German POS gonna do to me?! I'm the Lance, king of the mountains, a god among men...

"He said what?!" -- super athletes like Lance and Mike find antagonists as motivation, imagined or real -- "He's gonna attack ME on Alpe D'Huez?! Does he not know who I am? I'm Lance MF'in Armstrong, MF! I beat DEATH for FUN! I'll let him attack and then crush him!"

And then go out and do it.

The daily self-talk and positive reinforcements alone would turn any sane man into a dastardly prick.

(The curriculum actually used Lance Armstrong as a case study when I studied psychology. Athletes are a fascinating study subject.)

What I like about boxers is that the self-talk is actually taken to an extreme due to the nature of competition -- combat -- which totally takes away any filter and allows the self talk to emerge as it exists in the mind.

I love that.

But what's cool about that is boxers often know how to separate their combat personality om their real life. Often. Not always. But often.

(Conversely, I consider tennis players the biggest focking liars when it comes to that. They NEVER, EVER let their true feelings known. If they do slip up, the apologize profusely afterwards.)

It's not just boxers, Lance and Mike, though. I'd dare say most top-level athletes have these traits. The rare exception is the one who doesn't.

I've actually met one: Kurt Warner.

But I bet even he, as nice and lovable as he is, is a mean, competitive SOB once he hits the gridiron.

You don't win a Super Bowl if you're not. You just don't.

Anyway, long digression aside, -- I apologize Sugar Man -- I totally feel your Wilt story (what a c-blocker, that Wilt. I wouldn't have gone down without a fight. With your game, you could've took him on!). And he may indeed have caught Mike at an odd time.

Still, check out the video and let me know what you think!

The Shadow says:

[I]"Chammillionare ( a man who might be valued financially at only one fiftieth of Jordan's networth) continued to insinuate himself into Jordan's personal space by throwing his paltry $7000.00 expenditure up in Jordan's face like it really mattered to a guy who literally can generate that kind of cash at will in a matter of seconds..."[/I]

That was completely, utterly epic. Lol, you're the man. "Paltry expenditure." Classic.

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=brownsugar; Mike played 48 rounds of golf with Charles Barkley and bought him a $20,000 earing in between the championship play off games.
Someone told Mike that he really must like Barkley.... Mike said " I hate that fat fu@k... I just wanted him to stay off me for the rest of the Playoff".

There are tons of stories about Mike... a lot of bad behavior but most of it is related to basketball and his competitive nature like when he told Mugsy Bowles ...while he was trying to take a game winning shot..." Shoot the ball you fu@king midget".... Mugsy missed.

Is Floyd the Michael Jordan of boxing ... I hope not.[/QUOTE]

That's hilarious LOL what a pr*ck!

Shadow make a good but I always think when people make a lot of money they expect the world to revolve around them, I'm not saying all upper class are like this but this is what I have heard from other wealthy people.

There's just too much going against Mike, and in the video Chamillionare comes off as very generous and humble with Jordan.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;50560]That's hilarious LOL what a pr*ck!

Shadow make a good but I always think when people make a lot of money they expect the world to revolve around them, I'm not saying all upper class are like this but this is what I have heard from other wealthy people.

There's just too much going against Mike, and in the video Chamillionare comes off as very generous and humble with Jordan.[/QUOTE]

He does, doesn't he? Not what you would expect from a rapper at all. He even admits he wasn't allowed to listen to hip hop growing up. Not exactly "gangsta" but he doesn't care.

While both are driven, confident and extremely hard-working, from what I've seen, I don't think corporate-rich people and athlete-rich people depend on the same level of "egotism" to rise to the top.

Both work hard but you can easily become rich while staying grounded. As an athlete, you have to be a bit of a megalomaniac.

I'm sure there are other commonalities as well, especially the higher we go up the ladder, like Fortune 500 CEOs (I don't know and haven't met any), but in sports and entertainment, you truly have to be a shark.

I'm reminded of former WWE champ Kevin Nash wrestling his best friend Shawn Michaels in the main event of Wrestlemania.

Despite being best friends, Michaels tried to sabotage the match (he was scripted to lose) because he wanted that Number One spot his buddy Nash possessed.

When asked why his best friend would do that, Nash responded, "Because he could. He wanted that top spot."

Nash continued, "we're all LLCs and sole corps and we got families to feed. And we're all sharks."

Another time, my sister, brother-in-law and nephew had a meeting with a prominent agent regarding my nephew's soccer career when he was around 15 and getting ready to join the senior pro ranks.

The agent made it clear right away, "you are no longer a teammate. You are an independent corporation," the agent said.

"You're not getting a salary; it's corporate revenues." The agent himself had a long career behind him from the English Premier League (Skibbz knows him very well) and was a fixture on one team that recently won the Champions League.

"You have to think of yourself as a business entity."

Your point still remains, CC, once you reach a certain level of wealth and importance, you develop certain habits that can make you accustomed to being the center of attention.

I wonder what EM thinks of this?

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

Deion Sanders anyone? Just like Floyd he was flamboyant, the best at what he did, and a little over the top in the vanity department. However, he backed up all of his trash talk, so you have to respect him. It's "Primetime" baby!

ArneK. says:

I like the Deion Sanders comparison. In the same vein, another churlish athlete jumps to mind: John McEnroe.

The Good Doctor says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;50566]He does, doesn't he? Not what you would expect from a rapper at all. He even admits he wasn't allowed to listen to hip hop growing up. Not exactly "gangsta" but he doesn't care.

While both are driven, confident and extremely hard-working, from what I've seen, I don't think corporate-rich people and athlete-rich people depend on the same level of "egotism" to rise to the top.

Both work hard but you can easily become rich while staying grounded. As an athlete, you have to be a bit of a megalomaniac.

I'm sure there are other commonalities as well, especially the higher we go up the ladder, like Fortune 500 CEOs (I don't know and haven't met any), but in sports and entertainment, you truly have to be a shark.

I'm reminded of former WWE champ Kevin Nash wrestling his best friend Shawn Michaels in the main event of Wrestlemania.

Despite being best friends, Michaels tried to sabotage the match (he was scripted to lose) because he wanted that Number One spot his buddy Nash possessed.

When asked why his best friend would do that, Nash responded, "Because he could. He wanted that top spot."

Nash continued, "we're all LLCs and sole corps and we got families to feed. And we're all sharks."

Another time, my sister, brother-in-law and nephew had a meeting with a prominent agent regarding my nephew's soccer career when he was around 15 and getting ready to join the senior pro ranks.

The agent made it clear right away, "you are no longer a teammate. You are an independent corporation," the agent said.

"You're not getting a salary; it's corporate revenues." The agent himself had a long career behind him from the English Premier League (Skibbz knows him very well) and was a fixture on one team that recently won the Champions League.

"You have to think of yourself as a business entity."

Your point still remains, CC, once you reach a certain level of wealth and importance, you develop certain habits that can make you accustomed to being the center of attention.

I wonder what EM thinks of this?[/QUOTE]

Love this post.

If I may jump in, the "douchebaggery" of athletes in my eyes should almost be expected and is kind of easy to understand. I also think the reasons go way beyond money and adulation of people but they are contributing factors.

1. Most athletes are socially awkward and the reason for this is simple. To quote the great Pat Riley "The beauty of sports is that by in large it still a true meritocracy. If you work harder than everyone, and perform better than everyone, you most times are rewarded greatly" I bring that up because almost all professional athletes have worked at their craft since they were very young and at a level most do not. What that means is while I was chasing skirts, the future NBA player was practicing jumpers. While I was at the school dance, he was doing squats. While I was at the house party, he was watching games and taking notes. Therefore, their social interaction is not that of normal people. Outside of trainers and teammates, most phenomenal athletes do not have major social lives until they have made it.

2. Pro athletes not only mentally believe they are the best but they statistically speaking are. In any sport, the professionals have been found to be the top .01% of people worldwide who participate in the sport(as an aside which is why I do not think they are overpaid). I don't care who you are, if you can perform a task in which millions of people pay to see you do it, at level basically better than anyone on the planet except your colleagues, staying grounded is an immense task.

3. Pro athletes are often criticized by those who cannot do what they do remotely as well, don't do their own job particularly well, and do not possess great knowledge of what the athlete does in the first place. If I was a boxer and The Commish or Arne K. publicly criticized me, I may not like it but I could internalize and respect it because it is obvious they know the game and it doesn't take long to realize that. Unfortunately most of the reporters, broadcasters, and writers are really clueless nowadays, especially when it comes to boxing.

4. You cannot be publicly honest. This is a problem not only limited to sports but it is often seen in the sports arena. I am reminded of when Lebron James said something to the nature of "for those who are overly critical of me, when they go home they gotta be them" at press conference. At the time time, the press was going waaaaaaaay to far in their criticisms too. He was questioned by some reporter at a press conference the next day with the question "When you made that comment, are your trying to say that you are better than us...better than me? Lebron backtracked and smoothed it over but it was not the truth. What Lebron really wanted to say is, "Yeah I do live than better than you. I am the best player in the game, I got a beautiful wife with a tiny waist and a butt as wide as a volvo, two great kids, millions of dollars in the bank, I'm on TV all the time, I run corporations, charities, and I am a 6" 9' 270 pound muscular behemoth, so yeah, I do live better than you" Hella uncomfortable to say that but it would have been his real feelings and in my mind true.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Shoulder Roll Defense;50718]Deion Sanders anyone? Just like Floyd he was flamboyant, the best at what he did, and a little over the top in the vanity department. However, he backed up all of his trash talk, so you have to respect him. It's "Primetime" baby![/QUOTE]

Or even Willie Beamen!!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=The Good Doctor;50761]Love this post...

....Unfortunately most of the reporters, broadcasters, and writers are really clueless nowadays, especially when it comes to boxing.

4. You cannot be publicly honest. This is a problem not only limited to sports but it is often seen in the sports arena. I am reminded of when Lebron James said something to the nature of "for those who are overly critical of me, when they go home they gotta be them" at press conference. At the time time, the press was going waaaaaaaay to far in their criticisms too. He was questioned by some reporter at a press conference the next day with the question "When you made that comment, are your trying to say that you are better than us...better than me? Lebron backtracked and smoothed it over but it was not the truth. What Lebron really wanted to say is, "Yeah I do live than better than you. I am the best player in the game, I got a beautiful wife with a tiny waist and a butt as wide as a volvo, two great kids, millions of dollars in the bank, I'm on TV all the time, I run corporations, charities, and I am a 6" 9' 270 pound muscular behemoth, so yeah, I do live better than you" Hella uncomfortable to say that but it would have been his real feelings and in my mind true.[/QUOTE]

I agree with what y said. Two points really stand out to me: one, athletes are not overpaid. At all. I used to think so. I used to wonder how in the world they could pay them all that money.

Obviously, the owners make that much more.

Secondly, your point about LeBron is so accurate. Imagine being vilified by a petty billionaire owner because he chose to exercise his rights as a free agent.

That same pathetic Cavaliers owner is the same guy who smeared Carlos Boozer publicly because he chose to take a deal that paid him that over sixty-something million -- which he had the right to match -- instead of leaving over $20m on the table to play for the Cavs.

As if these owners think twice before they trade somebody who has probably gotten situated in the city, kid has made friends and is fitting in and so forth.

Part of the game. These owners are silly, man.

Anyway, back to LeBron. Imagine being vilified throughout the season for exercising your right as a free agent. Then everyone rejoicing once you lose in the finals.

He said exactly what he felt and it was freakin' true! He's got a bad mamma jamma at home with a bubble butt like a Volvo -- you know how we like em doc lol -- and he's got money out the a$$ so I understand why he said what he said because that is what he felt.

At least it was honest.

The Shadow says:

Was looking for Lee's pendulum graphics and kinda fell over this thread. Pretty interesting topic, I think.

brownsugar says:

If Jordan is representative of the pinnacle of the sport... and is the embodiment of the greatest basketball player who ever lived. ....Then within the context of that definition I would have to say probably not.

But only because of a couple of untimely periods of inactivity.

Ultimately the nominee for the best ever scenario in boxing is a discussion that could potentially rage until the end of time.

But if we take into account Floyd's body of work within the last two decades..... he cannot be dismissed. On the contrary.....he must be embraced as one of the best ever within the context of the last twenty five years.

Honestly I also think its a position he would have to share with Manny Pacquiao since we don't have conclusive evidence which fighter would have prevailed had they met in 2009. Even though Manny lost to fighter who would never have a chance of defeating Floyd Mayweather.

Other than Manny,.... Floyd's timeline intersects with some of the greatest boxers in modern history.

Early in his career Mayweather challenged Sugar Shane Mosely when he still had a 92% KO ratio at lightweight. Shane declined the offer while explaining that he needed to go to the dentist. Yet he would go onto fight Vernon Forest and Oscar Del LA Hoya twice.

Floyd won the title from one of the most experienced and seasoned veteran boxers of the 90's....Genaro Hernandez...... at a point in his career when Genaro was considered to be invincible.

And he did it at the tender age of 21years old.

Floyd challenged a murderous boxer puncher named Kostya Tszyu who declined Floyds offer and eventually fought an energized Ricky Hatton instead a year later and was forced to retire before the final bell. ....Floyd destroyed Kostya's conquerer ... a tough physical brawler who had never known defeat.

Shane Mosely destroys a human wrecking machine named Antonio Margarito whom no one wanted any part of and becomes the Crown Jewell of the welterweight division until he subsequently becomes diagnosed as a shot fighter after facing Mayweather.

Floyd had a similar effect on Cotto also,

Cotto was also perceived to be unfit to compete at the elite level after suffering a decisive loss to Mayweather via unanimous decision. Cotto would go onto to establish himself as a future Hall of Famer by destroying Martinez for the middleweight title.

Canelo was said to be too green...after his one sided loss to Mayweather but has defeated the very best junior middleweights in the world today.

Do you see a pattern emerging here?

Floyd would have to ascend to mount olympus and defeat Zeus in a barehanded brawl to have a Career that was any more Mythic than his current resume.

And given the length of time he's been dominant in the sport even Jordan has to appreciate his longevity and the quality of his opposition.

Due to Floyds acrimonious relationship with the public it may take a while for fans to appreciate. But rest assured those accolades are forth coming.




-;

Skibbz says:

Sugar Ray Leonard maybe, Floyd? No chance

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=brownsugar;58310]If Jordan is representative of the pinnacle of the sport... and is the embodiment of the greatest basketball player who ever lived. ....Then within the context of that definition I would have to say probably not.

But only because of a couple of untimely periods of inactivity.

Ultimately the nominee for the best ever scenario in boxing is a discussion that could potentially rage until the end of time.

But if we take into account Floyd's body of work within the last two decades..... he cannot be dismissed. On the contrary.....he must be embraced as one of the best ever within the context of the last twenty five years.

Honestly I also think its a position he would have to share with Manny Pacquiao since we don't have conclusive evidence which fighter would have prevailed had they met in 2009. Even though Manny lost to fighter who would never have a chance of defeating Floyd Mayweather.

Other than Manny,.... Floyd's timeline intersects with some of the greatest boxers in modern history.

Early in his career Mayweather challenged Sugar Shane Mosely when he still had a 92% KO ratio at lightweight. Shane declined the offer while explaining that he needed to go to the dentist. Yet he would go onto fight Vernon Forest and Oscar Del LA Hoya twice.

Floyd won the title from one of the most experienced and seasoned veteran boxers of the 90's....Genaro Hernandez...... at a point in his career when Genaro was considered to be invincible.

And he did it at the tender age of 21years old.

Floyd challenged a murderous boxer puncher named Kostya Tszyu who declined Floyds offer and eventually fought an energized Ricky Hatton instead a year later and was forced to retire before the final bell. ....Floyd destroyed Kostya's conquerer ... a tough physical brawler who had never known defeat.

Shane Mosely destroys a human wrecking machine named Antonio Margarito whom no one wanted any part of and becomes the Crown Jewell of the welterweight division until he subsequently becomes diagnosed as a shot fighter after facing Mayweather.

Floyd had a similar effect on Cotto also,

Cotto was also perceived to be unfit to compete at the elite level after suffering a decisive loss to Mayweather via unanimous decision. Cotto would go onto to establish himself as a future Hall of Famer by destroying Martinez for the middleweight title.

Canelo was said to be too green...after his one sided loss to Mayweather but has defeated the very best junior middleweights in the world today.

Do you see a pattern emerging here?

Floyd would have to ascend to mount olympus and defeat Zeus in a barehanded brawl to have a Career that was any more Mythic than his current resume.

And given the length of time he's been dominant in the sport even Jordan has to appreciate his longevity and the quality of his opposition.

Due to Floyds acrimonious relationship with the public it may take a while for fans to appreciate. But rest assured those accolades are forth coming.




-;[/QUOTE]

From a fighter: [url]http://www.fighthype.com/news/article18328.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;68123]Check this out, Suge. From a fighter: [url]http://www.fighthype.com/news/article18328.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter[/QUOTE]

Isn't this opinion based?

Is Madaina better than Algeri? Ortiz put him down a few times and beat him up. Khan put him down, staggered him and beat him more impressively than Floyd did. Also Alexander beat him. The first Floyd Chino fight was very close.

Floyd has not had an impressive or entertaining showing since he beat Cotto. Sure he schooled Alvarez, but he did what was expected.

Pac beat Bradley twice, who was a sure top 10 lb4lb and challenged himself by facing his nemesis and most difficult opponent in JMM a 4th time.

Floyd has yet to face his nemesis and perceived most difficult opponent yet.

deepwater2 says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;68124]Isn't this opinion based?

Is Madaina better than Algeri? Ortiz put him down a few times and beat him up. Khan put him down, staggered him and beat him more impressively than Floyd did. Also Alexander beat him. The first Floyd Chino fight was very close.

Floyd has not had an impressive or entertaining showing since he beat Cotto. Sure he schooled Alvarez, but he did what was expected.

Pac beat Bradley twice, who was a sure top 10 lb4lb and challenged himself by facing his nemesis and most difficult opponent in JMM a 4th time.

Floyd has yet to face his nemesis and perceived most difficult opponent yet.[/QUOTE]

Good points.

When I clicked on that link I was expecting someone different. Willie Monroe? $1 and lil Willy's opinion can get you a donut. Who cares about that opinion. Get some credible opinions. Ask some Hall of Famers their opinion. Ask guys at the top of the sport now and in the last few decades and get a consensus on who the best is. Sugar Ray Leonard is head and shoulders above Floyd. Speaking of head and shoulders,remember the Speed stick commercials? Hagler is head and shoulders above Floyd too.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QeSGaWn7aQ

1988 Right Guard Sport Stick Commercial (with Marvelous Marvin Hagler)

Froggy says:

Great commercial, deepwater2 ! My favorite boxing commercial I seen in my motel room the morning after watching Hagler Hearns in the Ceasar's Palace parking lot the night before ! Hagler is seen eating some pizza, he finally speaks saying " I wonder what he's eating right now, probably soup" ! I never seen it again !

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=deepwater2;68127]Good points.

When I clicked on that link I was expecting someone different. Willie Monroe? $1 and lil Willy's opinion can get you a donut. Who cares about that opinion. Get some credible opinions. Ask some Hall of Famers their opinion. Ask guys at the top of the sport now and in the last few decades and get a consensus on who the best is. Sugar Ray Leonard is head and shoulders above Floyd. Speaking of head and shoulders,remember the Speed stick commercials? Hagler is head and shoulders above Floyd too.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QeSGaWn7aQ

1988 Right Guard Sport Stick Commercial (with Marvelous Marvin Hagler)[/QUOTE]

Don't matter who says it; he makes valid points. I posted it to Brownsugar because it was very similar to what he had posted in the post I repsonded to.

I think Willie Monroe makes some salient points. And if you want to get a great's take, I actually have screenshots on my phone from an interview with Ray Leonard where he says something very similar.

Also, he was making a VERY good points that Pacquiao gets a pass but Stephen A. Smith will call for a boycott if he fights Amir Khan, a guy who would be favored to beat Chris Algieri by any unbiased observer and a guy who has done 10x in his career, amateur or pro, that Algieri.

And I like Algieri better than I do Khan, for the record.

It is what it is.

Radam G says:

And that is the way the sweat drips. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGOt8dZRsHk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGOt8dZRsHk Holla!

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