PREDICTION PLANET: Big Mac’s Expert Panel--Pacquiao-Bradley 2 Edition

BY Kelsey McCarson ON April 10, 2014
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Pacquiao Bradley finalPC 67ee4

--- Photo Credit : Chris Farina - Top Rank

It’s that time of year again. A big fight beckons, so your old pal McCarson gathered picks from around the boxing world to see who will come out on top Saturday when Manny Pacquiao faces Timothy Bradley at the MGM in Las Vegas.

While the majority of TSS writers like Pacquiao to win a decision, a panel of 15 other boxing gurus ended up muuuuuch closer: 8 see Bradley winning, 6 see Manny the victor, and one abstained, on principle.

One panelist, boxing writer Matt McGrain, gave perhaps the most interesting response of the bunch. McGrain won’t pick a winner and won’t even watch the fight because he says fight fans “were robbed” back in 2012 when two boxing judges gave Bradley the nod in a bout most everyone else saw a clear Pacquiao win.

Without further adieu, here are Pacquiao-Bradley predictions from boxing’s best panel of pickers.

TSS Crew Picks Pacman 8-1, Woods Says Draw

I'm going with Tim Bradley again. I picked him in the first fight and I pick him again in the rematch. He cleaned out the junior welterweights and now is targeting the welters. Bradley by TKO. -- David Avila, TheSweetScience.com

I've never been so timid to call a fight with conviction... I can genuinely see this going either way. I'm going with Pacquiao via majority decision, with one knockdown being the difference in the fight. -- Blake Hochberger, TheSweetScience.com

Pacquiao won the first time and did everything right except get the decision. Manny will try and turn up the heat and pressure more this time (because he doesn't believe Bradley can really hurt him) and Bradley will try to box and move a little more…The fight will go the distance and Pacquiao's hand will be raised regardless of whether or not he deserves the decision. -- Frank Lotierzo, TheSweetScience.com

I am not going to want this fight to end. I love Bradley’s game. He continues to get better and looked great against Marquez. I would love to see Bradley fight Mayweather because of their styles. But Bradley doesn’t have an answer for Pacquiao’s speed. If I have to choose a winner, I like Pacquiao to win a close, highly competitive fight by KO. Pacquiao’s speed and timing will be the deciding factor. -- Raymond Markarian, TheSweetScience.com

Bradley is going about it all wrong. He convinced himself he won the first fight when all but a very few people actually believed that to be the case. He’ll go into the rematch thinking he can do the same thing and get the win. He can’t. Pacquiao will defeat him more convincingly this time and win a wide unanimous decision. -- Kelsey McCarson, TheSweetScience.com

Freddie, as always, is making big promises about the "Old Manny" returning. It might sound like a tired tune, but the last time he said it, Manny almost finished off Marquez, even though it didn't quite pan out. If Freddie isn't just blowing smoke, an aggressive Manny could be all wrong for Bradley. This is a different Tim Bradley, though. After surviving Provodnikov and legitimately beating Marquez, Bradley rightly believes he's ready for prime time. I see a close, exciting fight with the difference being that Bradley won't be able to really hurt Pacman. That will allow Pacquiao to eek out a tight, unanimous decision. -- John Nguyen, TheSweetScience.com

After Bradley beat Pacquiao by split decision in 2012, Lennox Lewis said the outcome was "maybe not worse than my draw with Holyfield but still bad nonetheless." In that particular rematch, Holyfield performed better, but Lewis still won a unanimous decision. In this rematch, Bradley will show that he has the skills of a top-level fighter, but Pacquiao will walk away with a unanimous decision. A rubber match is inevitable. -- Aaron Tallent, TheSweetScience.com

Tim Bradley is good. Real damn good. I thought he'd be damaged goods after Ruslan gave him some wicked thumps. But he showed me YET AGAIN that my omniscience is a work in progress. The man has skills, and even if those skills don't include much in the pop department, he can box a doozy. The other guy can still too, and his flashy, still-present hand speed will get judge love onApril 12. And maybe you recall, they kind of owe Pacquiao one, don't they? I see 12 rounds that can go either way, though, and a MAJORITY DRAW. -- Michael Woods, TheSweetScience.com

Pacquiao's turn to take a close, questionable call, as he's done in Vegas a few times already. This time Arum will borrow a page from Bradley's book and show up with a poster for Pacquiao-Bradley 3. -- Phil Woolever, TheSweetScience.com

Contrary to popular belief, I thought the first fight was highly competitive. I’m expecting more of the same. However, this time, whether he deserves it or not, Pacquiao will be the one who has his arm raised.Pacquiao by SD. -- Lee Wylie, TheSweetScience.com

Other Panelists See Bradley A Winner, 8-6, McGrain Abstains

I like Pacquiao to win a competitive unanimous decision. He will be a lot more active in the ring and throw more eye-catching shots than Bradley will. I also think Pacquiao's power will be a big difference in the fight. He throws the type of punches that judges respond to—at least the competent ones. -- Adam Abramowitz, SaturdayNightBoxing.com

In their first tilt, Pacquiao did not land fractionally as often as he was expected, or in many cases seen, to do. Bradley's performance, too, was sub-par. Pacquiao will be slower but more aggressive this time. Bradley will be quicker but less aggressive. And it will be make-up day on the scorecards: Fans and pundits will see Bradley win on effectiveness, Las Vegas judges will see Pacquiao win on activity, and acrimony will ensue. -- Bart Barry, 15Rounds.com

Two years removed from a decision win he didn't deserve, Timothy Bradley Jr. has done nothing in the interim but improve. Now, at the peak of his absolute prime, expect the versatile boxer-puncher to utilize his speed, guile and fearlessness to claim a tight decision that's justified. Pacquiao remains one of the very elite fighters in the sport. But he's slowing down just a bit. Look for Bradley to utilize the confidence gained in the final few rounds of their first fight when he outboxed Pacquiao to score enough points to offset the Pacman's power shots that will likely sway the crowd in his favor. -- Brian Campbell, ESPN.com

While I agree with the masses that Pacquiao deserved to win the first go-round in 2012, I also think the intervening two years have been kinder to Bradley. Particularly in his Marquez fight, he showed the varied skills he'll need to handle a Manny who's either still what he was back then, or a trifle diminished. He's got speed, he's got guts and he's got the patience and the smarts to stick to a game plan that might make for a dull fight... but a successful ending. Give me Tim by a close decision, 115-113 let's say, and get ready for the third match. -- LyleFitzsimmons, CBSSports.com

It seems that most of the questions for this fight revolve around Manny. Is he still hungry? How much has he slipped? Does he still have that old killer instinct? Bradley is solid and has many tools. However, Manny looked quite good against Rios in November. So I say he’s still got it. Pacquiao by unanimous decision. -- John DiSanto, PhillyBoxingHistory.com

There are very few ELITE fighters and even fewer elite fighters that love to slug it out: we are getting a combination of both in #PacBradley2. It’s going to be a battle of who has the toughest chin, and right now, I think that is Bradley. But who has the most heart? -- GeorgeForeman IV, Foreman Boys Promotions

I'm still not convinced about the "not wearing socks" excuse. At the highest level, I'd imagine Bradley's feet being conditioned to fight without socks and to also prepare for "spongy" rings. I've fought all over the world in different conditions. A fighter shouldn't be surprised of the environment. Second, Bradley was able to utilize his skills against a much slower Marquez, who also took a lot of punishment from his last fight, which was with Pacquiao. Can we agree that Pacquiao is much faster than Marquez? I can't base Bradley's performance with Marquez being a "litmus test" of how much he's improved. No disrespect to Bradley, he's a great fighter, but whether he wears socks or not, I give the edge to Pacquiao winning. -- boxer Ana Julaton, former world champion

I like Bradley by unanimous decision with a display of athleticism and skill. -- Andy Lee, middleweight contender

PACQUIAO BY UNANIMOUS DECISION. I had Manny up by two rounds in their first fight. Even though he out-landed Bradley, in the middle round his activity level slumped after the 6th stanza. Manny is inspired for this one and I believe he will consistently press the attack this time around. In their first fight, Bradley was often able to slip Pacquiao's third and fourth punches. The Pacman has to change that on Saturday night and score his signature long combinations. Pacquiao has no respect for Bradley's power - which is both a plus and a minus. The minus is, of course, that Bradley could surprise him with a potent counter-right. The plus is that the power differential will make Pacquiao more comfortable staying in the pocket and throwing punches in bunches. Either way, I can't wait for this one - two amazing fighters and ambassadors for boxing. --Gordon Marino, Boxing.com

Pacquiao by decision. He won the first fight, no reason to think he won't win the second one as well, especially since he’ll be coming in hungry to right the past. -- Rachel McCarson, Boxing Photographer

Not only am I not picking a winner for Pacquiao-Bradley II, I won't be watching. The day after the first fight I wrote that "anyone who buys the sequel is in some way endorsing the decision in the first fight", and that is how I feel about it. In the summer of 2012 we were robbed - you, me, every other boxing fan, Pacquiao, and not least of all Bradley, who supposedly came close to retiring in the wake of the hatred that enveloped him in the wake of that first ridiculous decision. Who robbed us? Some s------d that was after our money or two idiots that don't understand boxing. Doesn't matter. Pacquiao outclassed Bradley last time around, and the only reason there is a rematch is because of those idiots - or those criminals. My prediction is losers all round - the writers that cover it like it is a real fight, the fans that buy tickets, the fighters that got duped the first time around. Bob Arum will win though. Unlike other picks, this one is inarguably correct, and unaffected by the outcome. -- Matt McGrain, Boxing.com

Timothy Bradley Jr. is a dangerous fighter. He’s highly skilled, determined and feels like he has something to prove. That’s a dangerous mix, especially against an opponent who has been half in and half out of boxing for the past several years. In this fight, you can expect a lot of close, competitive rounds. But when the judges award them to Bradley, this time, he’ll have earned them. He’s just more intense and more desperate to prove himself than Pacquiao. Bradley “avenges” his win in the first fight with a close unanimous decision. -- Kevin McRae, BleacherReport.com

Many observors are picking Pacquiao, and understandably so. He's come back well after the sickening knockout loss to Marquez, as he looked fairly decent against Rios last November. Personally, I thought Manny would've been damaged goods after Marquez planted that bomb on his chin, but he's proved me wrong so far. But let's see what happens when he's hit regularly with full blooded punches and is truly tested. Bradley doesn't need to fully commit himself - yes, I'm talking about being pretty aggressive - to win via knockout or on points. He should hang back a little bit behind the jab while using his speed and movement, occasionally stepping in with countering power punches, then swiftly departing - Marquez style.  To sum that up in a simple format: Boxing combined with sporadic attacks, making himself multi-dimensional. He's got the speed, timing, athleticism and style to accomplish such a strategy. However, he's got to adjust to what Manny does as the fight progresses. Another thing he needs to do is match, or surpass, Manny for workrate to hang in there when it comes to convincing the judges. Crucial. When Manny is in the mood and firing on all cylinders, he's no joke. Although not with concrete conviction, I'll go for Bradley on points. --fighterwriter Robbi Paterson

A lot has happened since Pacquiao and Bradley first met in the ring. The Bradley vs. Provodnikov fight is one of the most memorable I’ve seen. I remember where I was, who I was with, and thinking, "HOLY
COW." Although Tim took quite a beating, he served one greater. I think he will do the same with Manny. This is Tim's chance to shut people up for all the detestation after their first fight, and I think he will take full advantage of it. In other circumstances, the idea of having to avenge a win doesn't make sense, but here it does. Hopefully this will be the final statement to bring Tim the respect he deserves. Of the Bradley fight, JMM said, "...you don't have to knock a guy out to win." But with Tim Bradley, maybe you do. That is something I don't see happening. It will be a battle, and I can't wait to see it. Bradley SD -- Stephanie Trapp, Trappfotos.com

Pacman moved up to a weight class where within the past 2 years, he has not been able to knock out an opponent. Timmy is younger, and very strong-willed. Two hungry fighters, I do not see a knockout... But I see a close decision for Timothy Bradley. Unless of course that one lucky punch comes. -- boxer Kaliesha West, former world champion

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Comment on this article

Radam G says:

Bradley did not win the first bout. He ought to quit acting like a lout. He's going to get knocked da double OUT. No DOUBT! Da crying bytch is becoming a nagging, delusional crybaby Marquez type. Thanks to God that the Cali Cranium Crusher cannot fight like the un-shot Marquez, or we may have to see a total of four bouts.

Bradley is going get knocked da _____ OUT! For a shrank, somebodee and dey sidekick need to shout. Bradley is going to need to be on suicide watch. Da dude is already bugging. Those that can, better get him some help, and quit nuthugging.

This fight is not gonna be a war. And won't go far.

For four rounds, Da Manny is going to whup da heck outta Big Foot, and then stop him in the fifth. And that is no monkey jive. Da delusional jivesucka Big Foot is going down in five. Bradley is going to look like he has been stunt by 100-million bees from a Eight-thousand-and-one P-Islands' beehives.

Worldwide this bout will be one of the more live-seen fights since the "Rumble in Jungle." Holla!

deepwater2 says:

Mcgrain is insane in the membrane . Bad decisions ,corrupt judges,sneaky trainers ,and promoters that lurk in the shadows are all part of the game called boxing. It will never be perfect and what fun would that be. Mcgrain should take his toys and go play in another sandbox. I have never seen a prediction from a so called professional writer like this. Boxing.com should have a talk with him that goes something like this " there's the door . You're fired" or to be nice, " it's not you ,it's us. Sorry. Going forward we are not a good fit" or the way I would say it , " don't bite the hand that feeds you moron. Get the f out of here before I meet you in the parking lot" he basically called all boxing writers losers. No credentials for him, no comps, no drinks or chit chat at the bar.

jzzy says:

Bradley is a flawed fighter with heart and will. Technically he's sound but not on the same planet as Mayweather. A fight between those two is a mismatch,
with Mayweather dominating. The only thing Bradley has going for him is he's catching Pac and Money in their boxing twiight. The difference in Pac this time
is renewed desire and motivation, plus still enough skill to handle Bradley. We still have our doubts with Bradley at this level, Marquez is shot so I'm not
even considering that as a good performance from Bradley. Pac in a spirited unanimous decision this time.

New York Tony says:

Boxing.com has a lot to recommend it, in spite of Matt McGrain. He thinks he's special, but he's nothing but a gasbag.

amayseng says:

Everyone thinks Tim has improved since the first Pac fight...How so?

by being concussed twice and getting a gift decision over the Russian which he actually lost?

or by barely, barely beating an old and slow and NON roided JMM???

Pac looked very good against Rios who is a hard thudding puncher, peppering the **** out of him for 12 rounds....In that fight Pacs balance and footwork was much better, smoother and coordinated to where against Tim he was all over the place.

Pac will be more fluid, smooth and sit down a bit on his punches and I am with RG, a mid fight stoppage as the ref jumps in and stops Tim from getting hammered on the ropes half out concussed.

amayseng says:

And BTW, Tim looked like a fucking CLOWN wearing his hat like that during the NBA interview...

that alone shows the dude has NO sense....I am all for style and my 13 year olds wear their hats correctly, not like Tim did. What a fool.

no sense means no adjustments, Tim will try to run and be down 4 rounds to none early

brownsugar says:

Everyone thinks Tim has improved since the first Pac fight...How so?

by being concussed twice and getting a gift decision over the Russian which he actually lost?

or by barely, barely beating an old and slow and NON roided JMM???

Pac looked very good against Rios who is a hard thudding puncher, peppering the **** out of him for 12 rounds....In that fight Pacs balance and footwork was much better, smoother and coordinated to where against Tim he was all over the place.

Pac will be more fluid, smooth and sit down a bit on his punches and I am with RG, a mid fight stoppage as the ref jumps in and stops Tim from getting hammered on the ropes half out concussed.


I feel your passion ...or would that be outrage...lol

leon30001 says:

Tim gets less likeable every day. He's not on Manny or Floyd's level, nowhere near. I'm praying Manny has enough left to put him back in touch with reality as to his standing in boxing versus the elites.

The Commish says:

First of all, I have to laugh at the pomposity & righteousness of Matt McGrain. He's not making a pick & not watching the fight because he feels fight fans were robbed in the first Pacquiao-Bradley fight. Is he for real? Taking that ridiculous logic, I am done watching Baseball because one of my favorite players--David Wright--was called out at first after clearly beating out a grounder to third. How dare those umpires. I will show them! No more baseball for me! Yeh, right! There is no way McGrain is not watching the fight. He will be watching it, just like all of us will be watching it, too.

As for the fight McGrain will certainly be watching, Manny Pacquiao will be too much for Timothy Bradley in every department. Last time, he did not fight for three minutes per round. Tonight he will. He will set a very fast pace, one which will for Bradley into making mistakes. Juan Manuel Marquez hit Bradley. Ruslan Provodnikov did, too. If they coould hit him with regularity, so can a much faster, more accurate Manny Pacquiao.

Pacquiao will break Bradley down. Pay attention to those right hooks to the body. If Pac doesn't stop Bradley late, he will win a comfortable decision, taking perhaps eight of the rounds. Amd don't worry about the scoring. C.J. Ross and Duane Ford are not judging tonight.

-Randy G.

stormcentre says:

I Think Bradley will do a lot better than most give him credit for.

He really did twist his ankle/foot in the first fight and speaking from experience that really hurts and blows your gameplan.

Radam G says:

Fighters are expected to fight hurt. It is called the hurt business. Any unhurt Bradley is going to get kayoed. Holla!

The Shadow says:

Everyone thinks Tim has improved since the first Pac fight...How so?

by being concussed twice and getting a gift decision over the Russian which he actually lost?

or by barely, barely beating an old and slow and NON roided JMM???

Pac looked very good against Rios who is a hard thudding puncher, peppering the **** out of him for 12 rounds....In that fight Pacs balance and footwork was much better, smoother and coordinated to where against Tim he was all over the place.

Pac will be more fluid, smooth and sit down a bit on his punches and I am with RG, a mid fight stoppage as the ref jumps in and stops Tim from getting hammered on the ropes half out concussed.


Concussed twice? You're being too nice.

Maybe twice. Per round.

stormcentre says:

Fighters are expected to fight hurt. It is called the hurt business. Any unhurt Bradley is going to get kayoed. Holla!


Yes I agree.

But I have had very few injuries as painful as rolling my ankle. I have never forgot it, as it hurt so bad (when it happened) that I could not believe I was still conscious with all the pain.

It really was that bad.

My point; It does and will change your performance and game-plan.

King Beef says:

I think all these guys already know Bradley chances to get the W this time are very slim. If it's close (which I doubt) he won't get the decision, and he will not get the benefit of the doubt he got in the Rus fight, if he gets hurt like that tonight the fight will be stopped! and I highly doubt he can stop Pac.

vjoe says:

My recollection of the first fight was a comfortable victory for a semi-motivated Pac. As soon as Bradley tasted a bit of Pac's power, he seemed to be in safety-first mode thereafter. I see nothing that says things will be different this time around. Pac by decision.

dino da vinci says:

@deep. How? How do 'the incompetents' get handed a crayon by other incompetents, with both groups of incompetents getting paid for it, and get to destroy fighters' careers; then babble something incoherent about “Remember, it's subjective!” It's not all that subjective. Not really. Scary thing is, some of these judges truly have no idea what her job encompasses. (Yeah, in the olden days you had to use the masculine form, but now, more and more, because of equality purposes, they are using “her”. Well, it's really applicable in this case, so let's use it.) As far as this boxing expert that you referenced, does he believe that Tim doesn't deserve a fight against Pac after his last two outings? What if this would have been the first time they were meeting? Then would it have been okay? The best should fight the best, and often... like in the good ole days.

@New York Tony. Boxing.com does a great job.

@Leon30001. Yeah, I'm starting to sense that.

dino da vinci says:

@deep. Another thing. What if this fight ends up being the fight of the year. Does it still not count?

One definition of an expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by their peers or the public in a specific well-distinguished domain. An expert, more generally, is a person with extensive knowledge or ability based on research, experience, or occupation and in a particular area of study.

Trust me, there are not too many boxing experts out there. I know, I've looked. There have been so many less than knowledgable wannabes that have dispensed bad advice that later gets taken as gospel, then that gets added to more bad advice, stirred well, and dispensed yet again. Here at TSS, we're doing a slow build of competent knowledge. Policing the maniacs who come in with elbows swinging, screaming as loud as they can possibly type, figuring that way, their (useless) opinion will carry the day. Nope, not here. We'll build it one quality opinion at a time. Watch and see what we build over the next several years.

The Good Doctor says:

Everyone thinks Tim has improved since the first Pac fight...How so?

by being concussed twice and getting a gift decision over the Russian which he actually lost?

or by barely, barely beating an old and slow and NON roided JMM???

Pac looked very good against Rios who is a hard thudding puncher, peppering the **** out of him for 12 rounds....In that fight Pacs balance and footwork was much better, smoother and coordinated to where against Tim he was all over the place.

Pac will be more fluid, smooth and sit down a bit on his punches and I am with RG, a mid fight stoppage as the ref jumps in and stops Tim from getting hammered on the ropes half out concussed.


That is one idea that has been pushed along that I am yet to understand. It is probably the hype machine as usual but you have articulated very well what I have been saying since the rematch was signed.

Another idea that has been pushed along hear is that Manny has lost his power or does not have the killer instinct. Alot of people point out that he hasn't knocked out anyone since 09. Obviously these people did not watch him whitewash a jr middle in Margarito, shutout Clottey and Rios, and put Shane on his butt. The first and the last in that sequence could have easily been stopped in the last three rounds on top of that. Some of the press have taken one roid-aided punch as narrative on the last 5 years of his career. In addition, people act like Manny is the only person that Marquez gave problems to. Marquez has been frustrating cats for years. All that said, I think Manny wins relatively easy. I don't think he knocks Tim out but it will be more because he doesn't feel the need to take the chance rather than not having the ability to.

Carmine Cas says:

Pacquiao decision, might be controversial. I think Tim does well tonight.

The Shadow says:

Pacquiao decision, might be controversial. I think Tim does well tonight.


I'm with you. MD.

Radam G says:

Pacquiao decision, might be controversial. I think Tim does well tonight.

Da Manny is going to kayo Timmy. And it ain't gonna be pretty. And it will be controversial to Team Desert Mirage -- I mean Team Desert Storm.

Dude is a dessert. He is beserk. And in this bout, he will not be alerk. I will be in a ringside seat telling him how badly he is being BEAT. Then KaBOOM! Goodnight, sweet Big Foot -- I mean sweet prince. Hehehehe! holla!

brownsugar says:

Manny was the better boxer in the first fight. Manny also has a record of winning rematches (most of the time).
Bradley is better... He's punching straighter and slapping less.
But no amount of wishful thinking can convince me to believe Bradley has the chin necessary to survive a series of straight lefts from Manny.
This fight will be won by the boxer with the best mobility, ring generalship, and countering ability.
The way I see it .... Bradley needs to fight at least ten percent above his normal capacity to win it.
It would have to be a very special note.

The Shadow says:

Y'all ready?

The Shadow says:

If it isn't clear by now, Floyd would end Manny's life.

amayseng says:

If it isn't clear by now, Floyd would end Manny's life.


come on Shadow, after all the work you have done here to represent yourself so well lately you go off and

make a triangle theory comment...hahaha

floyd is a master of spacing, timing and distance while pot shotting his foes with sharp punches..

Tim is selling out with every shot, throwing combos and trying to maul pac...

still pac is up 6-3

The Shadow says:

I'm telling you man. No triangle theory.

Movement bothers Manny so bad. Movement, defense and Floyd's sharp punches will wound him.

See how stupid macho Bradley wobbled Pac?

Just my opinion, though. That said, after tonight, Manny will resign with Top Rank. They're not going to let that happen.

Another thing: he's not the same without the MannyPak.

The Good Doctor says:

I'm telling you man. No triangle theory.

Movement bothers Manny so bad. Movement, defense and Floyd's sharp punches will wound him.

See how stupid macho Bradley wobbled Pac?

Just my opinion, though. That said, after tonight, Manny will resign with Top Rank. They're not going to let that happen.

Another thing: he's not the same without the MannyPak.


Shadow, I see what you are saying and it is not triangle theory. If that version of Mnany shows up against the last version of Floyd we saw, I think Floyd takes it easy. Manny still has good pop left, good lateral movement but he is noticeably slower and it's not the calculating I'm being patient slower either. Also, the thing that he may have rivaled Floyd with was footwork and although still good, it is not the ballerinaesque type movement he use to have.

Skibbz says:

I think Shadow may have a point although I don't think Mayweather would kill him.

Manny clearly isn't the same Manny of old in my opinion, although he is still one of the toughest fighters to face out there, just not on the same pinnacle.

Bradley was looking for a knock out with a big looping right a lá marquez... If that's what him and diaz were banking on it was very poor tactically.

Time to make my way home.. 6:30 am here in the UK. Looking forward to some nice discussion tomorrow lads!

amayseng says:

Shadow, I see what you are saying and it is not triangle theory. If that version of Mnany shows up against the last version of Floyd we saw, I think Floyd takes it easy. Manny still has good pop left, good lateral movement but he is noticeably slower and it's not the calculating I'm being patient slower either. Also, the thing that he may have rivaled Floyd with was footwork and although still good, it is not the ballerinaesque type movement he use to have.


ugh..........

Floyd is a phenom but he wont be selling out with full forced power shot combinations like tim tried tonight..


Pac has that game changing neutralizing power, Tim looked in the fight the first few rounds until Pac landed a few shots then Tim was half dazed and staggered. Pac hurt him in at least five rounds and it showed Tims feet and legs were all over the damn place.....

styles make fights.

Skibbz says:

I agree Doc. Floyd is in much better nick unsurprisingly. The wild card training regime, the number of times he's been sparked and age are starting to creep in on Pacquiao.. 2 more years at the most for him left at the top or in the sport general.

amayseng says:

Things happen a 33 year old Floyd got staggered by a 38 year old half himself shane mosley


a 30 year old prime floyd got knocked down and blown out the first four rounds against the a.d.d Zab


a younger and more prime Floyd got put on queer street by a C level fighter in chop chop...


a 25 year old PRime floyd really lost the first Louis Castillo fight...



my point is floyd is great and at 37 he is much more vulnerable and static and less offensive, against a 35

year old Pac, who isnt 25 either, but has great hand speed and power, plus is a southie, things happen...

it would be a close fight no matter which way it would go....

The Shadow says:

Before it, Amayseng, all we have is opinions and guesses, ergo none of us are right. Or wrong.

That's the beauty of it.

Based on what I see, however, I am 100% convinced and would bet BIG money (for me, anyway) on that outcome.

I can almost guarantee that there's a greater chance of a Pacquiao fatality than a Mayweather defeat.

You make a valid point and I somewhat disagree with your takes on those Floyd matchups.

While he got hit, yes, Chop chop lost every round. He did not get blown out at all vs Judah, I think that's a narrative that's been overblown too much. That was a dominant performance.

Floyd is so dominant that when he doesn't blow someone out, it tends to be viewed as him losing. (I think Judah's best moment in that fight was a body shot on the inside in the middle rounds.)

Don't think he lost to Castillo either. And Mosley had HUGE power and faster hands than Floyd.

Boxing scoring is subjective, though, so we can see different things.

Nevertheless, Floyd has improved significantly since.

And what we can agree on this: styles make fights, like you said.

And IMO, Manny is tailor made for Floyd.

@Doc and Skibbz, the reason I favor Floyd is because Tim's amd JMM's movement confused Pac.

In round 11, Bradley was hurt so bad. All he did was jab and circle left. Nullified everything Pac did.

He also showed vulnerability to a right hand. Bradley is not as sharp nor as accurate a puncher as Floyd.

Those wild right hands wouldn't be flying all over the place. They'd be landing like lasers.

The way I see it, everything Bradley does that troubles Pac, Floyd does better -- and then some.

In addition, his same power, the x-factor, isn't there anymore, for whatever reason.

I'm willing to bet $1000 plus the bonus of me running down Ocean Drive in my underwear screaming Hakuna Matata that it won't be close.

I think Mosley and Maidana are bigger punchers at this stage.

Part of me wants to see the fight, as well as Pac vs Ortiz, Huerrero, D. Garcia and others.

But from a biz perspective, I think he's better off being the top dog on hbo fighting the likes of Alvarado and passing the torch to M. Garcia.

The Shadow says:

I just saw the highlights. I freakin' LOVE Manny Pacquiao!!

What's interesting is this: Looks like the same awesomd athlete to me.

He's been diminished, perception wise, by poor matchmaking.

Or you can say the perception has taken a more realistic turn.

He's not as great as they said when they were going overboard with the hyperbole but he's FAR from shot!

Keep him away from spoilers.

Feed him some more creatine, amino acids and whatever else.

Feed him Provodnikov.

Do those three things and he will be No. 2 P4P again.

Especially since Andre Ward isn't fighting.

But really, like Brother Nazeem says, if you don't like Manny you don't like boxing.

I like how he's mixing in some intelligence with his Taxmanian Devil game.

What an awesome fighter. So fun to watch. Watching him is like watching Allen Iverson in 20001.

leon30001 says:

as well as Pac vs Ortiz, Huerrero.


Why would you want to see these fights? What possible interest could there be in an Ortiz fight? Presumably you mean Guerrero...what's he done lately? Either of those fights would be a joke in my opinion. There's ONE fight. That's it!

amayseng says:

Before it actually takes place, Amayseng, all we have is opinions and guesses, ergo none of us are right. Or wrong.

That's the beauty of it.

Based on what I see, however, I am 100% convinced and would bet BIG money (for me, anyway) on that outcome.

I can almost guarantee that there's a greater chance of a Pacquiao fatality than a Mayweather defeat. (Though I just used that term to emphasize the gap in talent; don't think he will kill him either.)

You make a valid point and I somewhat disagree with your takes on those Floyd matchups.

While he got hit, yes, Chop chop lost every round. He did not get blown out at all vs Judah, I think that's a narrative that's been overblown too much.

That was a dominant performance with some even tactical rounds early, which the punch stats reflect.

Floyd is so dominant that when he doesn't blow someone out, it tends to be viewed as him losing. (I think Judah's best moment in that fight was a body shot on the inside in the middle rounds.)

Don't think he lost to Castillo either. And Mosley had HUGE power and faster hands than Floyd.

Boxing scoring is subjective, though, so we can see different things.

Nevertheless, what we can say with relative certainty is that Floyd has improved significantly since then in the few areas he has shown vulnerability..

And what we can agree on this: styles make fights, like you said.

And IMO, Manny is tailor made for Floyd.

@Doc and Skibbz, the reason I favor Floyd is because Tim's amd JMM's movement confused Pac.

In round 11, Bradley was hurt so bad. All he did was jab and circle left. Nullified everything Pac did.

He also showed vulnerability to a right hand. Bradley is not as sharp nor as accurate a puncher as Floyd.

Those wild right hands wouldn't be flying all over the place. They'd be landing like lasers.

The way I see it, everything Bradley does that troubles Pac, Floyd does better -- and then some.

In addition, his same power, the x-factor, isn't there anymore, for whatever reason.

I'm willing to bet $1000 plus the bonus of me running down Ocean Drive in my underwear screaming Hakuna Matata that it won't be close.

I think Mosley and Maidana are bigger punchers at this stage.

Part of me wants to see the fight, as well as Pac vs Ortiz, Huerrero, D. Garcia and others.

But from a biz perspective, I think he's better off being the top dog on hbo fighting the likes of Alvarado and passing the torch to M. Garcia.



After 3 rounds you said Floyd would MURDER pac, i just rebutted why he wouldnt..

i had another post but the site froze and i went to bed.....

in short it would be a close fight between two aging vets who are not in their physical prime, on the decline but still the two best WW's in the world.

and yes Zab did white wash floyd the first 4 rounds and even should have scored a knock down.

The Shadow says:

Why would you want to see these fights? What possible interest could there be in an Ortiz fight? Presumably you mean Guerrero...what's he done lately? Either of those fights would be a joke in my opinion. There's ONE fight. That's it!


Why wouldn't I want to? Fresh, new matchups. He's only fought four guys since 2010.

Those guys I mentioned, and others, are better fits for his style. Bradley was all wrong. Good technically, super elusive, granite chin.

Ortiz on the hand, if he can get his sh*t back together? A Maidana? Who wouldn't wanna see that?!

As for the "ONE fight," I'm just being realistic. It's not happening.

He's locked into a contract for one more fight and his promoter doesn't want it, despite what he says. Because he's already scheduled his next fight with the PPV industry. Don't believe a word that guy says.

Even for argument's sake, when he spent the entire post-fight presser slandering and trying to sabotage those who he claims he now wants to do business with -- knowing he has scheduled his next fight with cable and satellite -- does that sound like he's saying what he's saying in good faith?

You don't encourage people to boycott an event so they can lose money and claim you want to work with them to make money.

Another giveaway that he's conning is that he says that they can do a Lewis-Tyson HBO/SHO double-broadcast, which is ridiculous. It would never ever happen because the parent companies won't let it, nor will the companies themselves and he knows that.

Plus it's not necessary. Pac isn't an HBO fighter. That 2002 event was a costly, once-in-a-lifetime occurence.

Either way, I'm not sure I want to see that fight anymore anyway. I'd like to get a few more fights with Pacqiuao facing some new guys.

Keep him away from Marquez. He will give him problems when he's 60. Give me some fresh fights that accentuates his strengths. Because I love watching him fight, he's exhilarating.

The Shadow says:

After 3 rounds you said Floyd would MURDER pac, i just rebutted why he wouldnt..

i had another post but the site froze and i went to bed.....

in short it would be a close fight between two aging vets who are not in their physical prime, on the decline but still the two best WW's in the world.

and yes Zab did white wash floyd the first 4 rounds and even should have scored a knock down.
.

Obviously I didn't mean murder in the literal sense. I do believe it would be a fifth-round stoppage, going no more than eight. That's a bet I've had with Mike Marley since 2011.

I don't see a close fight. I will put my money where my mouth is and put up that bet to any takers. And I think my argument is as solid as any. (Like I said, it's all opinion, anyway -- no one is right or wrong.)

I disagree with Judah whitewash, also. Yes, you can argue there was a flash knockdown. But whitewash?

I've watched that fight many, many times. I saw an evenly fought tactical battle between two excellent athletes in those first four rounds with both men splitting two rounds each.

In that fight, Judah landed 59 power punches according to CompuBox. He was matching him for speed in the first four rounds but he wasn't "dominating" Floyd by any stretch of the imagination. He did have a few good sequences, though, backing Floyd up to the ropes a time or two, and certainly holding his own.

In the first round, which I think Judah won, he threw two more punches and landed six more -- hardly a whitewash.

"Judah seem to get the better of what was an even and tactically fought round." - Jim Lampley

(While CompuBox isn't always an indicator of who wins and loses, it does give you an indication of activity and round-to-round dominance. These figures don't do anything to support that notion that he dominated Floyd. It's simply not true.)

In round four, Floyd was actually controlling the action firmly until the last 30 seconds or so, if my memory serves correctly.

Either way, here they are:

youtube.com/watch?v=FTfEbYVjtXo

youtube.com/watch?v=Vcoa4PpM4v0

Even if it indeed was a whitewash, for argument's sake, Zab's style -- ADD, hilarious! -- is not similar to Pacquiao's at all and gives no indication of what would happen should Floyd and Manny ever fight.

Pacquiao telegraphs his attacks, which is why he doesn't trouble Badley in the "open floor." In 24 rounds, he has landed just a couple of clean shots on Bradley. Think Floyd won't see that coming?

(I liked Manny's adjustment to that; his in-ring IQ has impressed me lately.)

I just don't see a close fight. If I were a Top Rank matchmaker, I would NOT let that happen. I would posture publicly and try to drum up interest but I would do everything in my power to prevent it as long as Pacquiao generates money on his own.

But we won't know till it happens.

On a different note, I had a dream about Hopkins-Shumenov, that it took place last night. It ended with a first-round KO. In my dreams, right? LOL

FWIW, he did that walk-away right hand lead ish and staggered Shumenov, then put him down. After the fight, he was crying. It was real vivid, kinda weird.

Radam G says:

Bottomline , Money May is as smart as the late greats Jack Johnson and Sugar Ray Robinson, he let fans, fanfaronades and fanboys holla for him while he cowards and ducks, as he knows and accepts what Da Manny will likely do to him. Holla!

The Shadow says:

Bottomline , Money May is as smart as the late greats Jack Johnson and Sugar Ray Robinson, he let fans, fanfaronades and fanboys holla for him while he cowards and ducks, as he knows and accepts what Da Manny will likely do to him. Holla!


I'm actually a Manny fan. I like him more than I like Floyd. While both seem like good dudes, Manny seems to be an extraordinary human being. I don't like how people take advantage of his kind spirit, though.

As an observer, I stand by what I say. But like I also said, it's all opinion until it happens -- and that's why it's so fun.

That said, I'll tell anyone, "You wanna net [profits], take the bet!"

Another question: RG, do you give Bradley more credit/rate him higher as a fighter after last night? I think he's got some competent doggs haha. Very good footwork.

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