An Ugly Win: Clinch-Happy Wladimir Easily Beats Povetkin

BY Michael Woods ON October 05, 2013
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Wladimir   Povetkin10 5 2013ajpg cd43fWhat were those oddsmakers, and more directly, what were all those putting money on Alexander Povetkin to help move the line, thinking? Wladimir Klitschko dominated Alexander Povetkin in the main event which unfolded Saturday night in Moscow to the degree that it made one wonder how he wasn't a massive favorite, not that 3 to 1 fave on many boards. Wlad fought smart, it could be argued, clinching when he had to, which was too frequently for watchers. A left hook dropped Povetkin in the second, three times in the seventh, and once unofficially in the ninth. Klitschko didn't build his rep or buzz considering he resorted to clinching multiple times every round, draping himself on Povetkin like a shawl, but he did get the nod on the scorecards, by scores of 119-104 times three.

Ref Luis Pabon drew scorn on social media for not reining in the clinchfest, rightly so.

Klitschko is second, behind Joe Louis, in length of holding the heavyweight title, at 7 years. Louis held the crown for 11 years.

HBO's Max Kellerman said he thinks Wlad is just below the top tier of alltime heavies, beneath Ali, Louis, Dempset et al.

The WBA super, IBF and WBO champ Wlad won Olympic gold in 1996. The WBA world champ Povetkin won Olympic gold for Russia in 2004. He came into the bout never having been knocked down. At 6-6, the Ukrainian Wlad had four inches on the Russian. Wlad was 242 to 226 at the weigh in for Povetkin.

Jonathan Banks, an Emanuel Steward protege, cornered Wlad. This was his third time in that role, since Steward died.

Ted Gimza, Phil Verbeek and Glenn Feldman judged, Luis Pabon reffed.In the first, Klitschko (age 37; 60-3 with 51 KOs entering) Wlad clinched right away. He mastered distance the second two thirds of the round, and won it. A left hook buzzed Alex late. Wlad won 8 to 6 in punches landed. In the second, Povetkin (26-0 with 18 KOs; age 34) tried to get inside and be busy but getting grabbed. A left hook dropped Alex near the end of the round.

In the third, Wlad clinched when Alex got near, and clipped him with hooks and jabs. Alex wanted to land a long right and get lucky.

In the fourth, Wlad stayed focused and smart. Alex couldn't do anything inside because he got wrapped up whenever he came close. The round wasn't a good one for Wlad. In the fifth, Wlad kept on grabbing, and draping himself on Alex. The crowd booed the clinching. In the sixth, once again, Wlad headlocked him with his left arm, again and again. "You making him tired right now," Povetkin's corner told him after the round.

In the seventh, a one two landed and then Wlad threw Alex down. It was scored a knockdown. Down he went again, at 1:41, off a shove. Down he went yet again, at :55. In the eighth, Alex was in no mood to work inside so the clinching was that much easier to do. In the ninth, Wlad shoved Alex to the mat again. His right eye was now looking worse. The Wlad jab was tenderizing his face.

In the tenth, once again Wlad clinched with his left arm, with Alex dipping to his right, as rightys usually do. In the 11th,Wlad wobbled Alex at 1:15. He shoved Alex down, and Pabon took a point from him. "It's overdue," said HBO's Max Kellerman. Jim Lampley concurred, as did Roy Jones.

In the 12th, Wlad clinched within the first three seconds of the round. Alex went down, his legs almost shot, off a shove at :55.

We went to the cards. Lord have mercy this wasn't occuring in the 15 round era...

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Comment on this article

amayseng says:

He HELD constantly and leaned on Povs neck CONSTANTLY.

there is no a few times.


these illegal tactics were so consistent he should have been deducted a point within the first two minutes and

disqualified by the 3rd round. no argument.

what a shame to hold every advantage and then fight a smaller and shorter man the way Wlad did.

marciano would have murdered Wlad inside a round

Grimm says:

Be fair, Amayseng - Povetkin didn't exactly avoid it. He came in low, perhaps in the hope of being able to send some hooks north, but was catched like a trout at the hands of our man Hop. Best effort vs Wlad for quite a while, though.

DaveB says:

Why didn't Povetkin's corner give the referee hell from the opening round? I heard them say something after the fight was over. And every knock down was preceded by a push. That is the way business is done in boxing what else is new?

amayseng says:

Be fair, Amayseng - Povetkin didn't exactly avoid it. He came in low, perhaps in the hope of being able to send some hooks north, but was catched like a trout at the hands of our man Hop. Best effort vs Wlad for quite a while, though.


He came in low which is legal, part of boxing is the ability afforded to you to get low and to bang the body or fight inside.

Wlad was draped all over him like a 2 dollar whore.

that was a terrible display of boxing ability from wlad. he should be embarrassed.

a boxer is afforded the right to fight on the inside or at least try to get there without ILLEGALLY being stopped presented to him by the rules of boxing which were negated for wlad...

Radam G says:

All in the eyes of the beholder. Clinching is a beautiful art of pugilism. And YUP! IMHO, Rocky Marciano would kayo Doc Wladimir in a round or two. See RM knew how to avoid being clinched at will. Avoidance of clinching is also a beautiful art that has been lost by 85 percent of nowadays pugilists. Doc would not have ever been able to try up Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Frazier or young Tyson that way. And when a man is leaning, you bob and weave and slip and dip, you will make him fall on his mug and bust his lip.

The acts of clinching and leaning on an opponent with your weight are not illegal in boxing. What is a disgrace, are sorry-arse heavyweights who don't know syet about shaking and baking, slipping and whipping, rolling and strolling and poking and smoking.

You guys are hating on the wrong pugilist. Doc W had game. Provetkin was dumb and lame. And his corner should be full of shame.

Optical illusions are everywhere and calling mass confusions. Holla!

amayseng says:

pushing an opponent is Illegal

he was constantly pushing his opponent down. that is illegal . he did this 72 times.

holding and hitting with uppercuts is illegal. he did this.

excessive holding is illegal. he did this 100 times.

he even threw Pov to the floor. illegal.

he landed elbows as strikes. this is illegal.

Hop says:

My thoughts are basically an amalgamation of what has already been pointed out in other comments, but ...

1) I really disliked Wladimir's constant leaning over/on Povetkin's back, however ...
2) As a previous poster said, I blame AP in part for his doing zilch (!) to maneuver away from this, after it was clear it was going to be WK's MO.
3) Timid little refs are worthless. Twinkle-toes just watched The Ukrainian Lean all night and never raised a finger against it. What's he there for?
4) I do think Wlad has a very good jab, and Povetkin's head must've been rocked backward by it 100 times.
5) I just don't 'hate' WK's fights as much as others do (including today's, even) and recognize his skills, and yet I certainly see the valid points his detractors make.
6) I'm convinced he's beatable. Very much so. Give me a HW w/movement (P had none), speed, smarts, & heart. A tall order, I suppose, but I remember when there were several.

amayseng says:

My thoughts are basically an amalgamation of what has already been pointed out in other comments, but ...

1) I really disliked Wladimir's constant leaning over/on Povetkin's back, however ...
2) As a previous poster said, I blame AP in part for his doing zilch (!) to maneuver away from this, after it was clear it was going to be WK's MO.
3) Timid little refs are worthless. Twinkle-toes just watched The Ukrainian Lean all night and never raised a finger against it. What's he there for?
4) I do think Wlad has a very good jab, and Povetkin's head must've been rocked backward by it 100 times.
5) I just don't 'hate' WK's fights as much as others do (including today's, even) and recognize his skills, and yet I certainly see the valid points his detractors make.
6) I'm convinced he's beatable. Very much so. Give me a HW w/movement (P had none), speed, smarts, & heart. A tall order, I suppose, but I remember when there were several.


Hop, just because Pov has a limited skill set which does not allow him to do more than zilch does not mean wlads tactics were not illegal and pov was not entitled under the rules to have the opportunity to fight within an effective parameter.

however, if you are stating he did zilch in the affect that he didnt retaliate and to the bully tactics then i concur.

in fact some tricks of the trade are to hit low every time you are pushed down. a good ref will NOT hold you accountable for punching low when you are pushed down and the trajectory of your punches are sent in that direction due to the opponent pushing you that direction.

also, pov should have pivoted or step to the side and continued to hit wlad in the spine and kidneys to let him know he wont be bullied.

step on his shoes coming forward and pushing wlad back.

you can not allow yourself to be bullied in the ring, especially illegally.

Hop says:

Hop, just because Pov has a limited skill set which does not allow him to do more than zilch does not mean wlads tactics were not illegal.


Well, sure. Wasn't that clear from my post? Why else would I have included point #3 on my list?

amayseng says:

Well, sure. Wasn't that clear from my post? Why else would I have included point #3 on my list?


my bad, i should have reread before responding.

wlad has soooo many attributes its a shame to see him fight in such a poor manor.

instead of jabbing, hooking out or jabbing with a right hand and stepping right in exciting fashion the bigger

stronger, better, more athletic fighter with a vast abundance of veteran experience held, hugged, pushed,

leaned, hip hiked, wrestled and bored the fans to death in a very, very poor display overall...


its a shame...

Hop says:

@ A-May: Yeah, I basically agree, but are you saying you were not impressed by WK's jab once again? B/c I really was (again).

amayseng says:

no i am always impressed by his jab...

thats the thing. his jab is so powerful, efficient, destructive, can set up so much offensively, it makes you want and wait for me and instead he puts on the worst winning performance of his career, arguably

Radam G says:

Actually pushing is a new made-up "illegal" rule in the pros. There would not have ever been a Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Max Baer, Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Thomas Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Prince Naseem Hameed, Terry Norris and umpteen more boxers if all these New Jack rules of holding, leaning on the head and neck and pushing were around during their days. All the former was a primary part of their beatdowns. The game is becoming wuzzy.

It use to be about skills to pay the bills to stop "pushing," "holding" and "leaning." Now everybodeee and dey momma want weak-arse, jive refs -- many on da fix -- all up in the pugilists' grills. If a fighter is so d@mn skill-less that he cannot maneuver out somebody bytch clinching him, holding and leaning on him, he needs to go the weak@as MMA/UFC. Holla!

Radam G says:

Hey, one of you TSS scribes really need to cover the on-the-book illegalities of pro boxing. I'm reminded of me believing that a U.S. Pres and Vice Prez couldn't be from the same state. It is a myth that you cannot hit with the loose hand while tying up or tied up. And it is also a made-up accepted rule that you cannot clinch around the head from stopping a person from coming up and billy-goat ramming the heck out of you. And not be able to PUSH!!!!! In the sarcastic words of talking-head Larry Merchant immediately after the Khan-Petterson Bout: "RIDICULOUS! Right! Give me a BREAK!" Holla!

BTW, I'm not defending Doc Wladimir. I'm just spitting out the jive that is in our seedy, shady sport. Holla TWICE!

dino da vinci says:

Hey, one of you TSS scribes really need to cover the on-the-book illegalities of pro boxing. I'm reminded of me believing that a U.S. Pres and Vice Prez couldn't be from the same state. It is a myth that you cannot hit with the loose hand while tying up or tied up. And it is also a made-up accepted rule that you cannot clinch around the head from stopping a person from coming up and billy-goat ramming the heck out of you. And not be able to PUSH!!!!! In the sarcastic words of talking-head Larry Merchant immediately after the Khan-Petterson Bout: "RIDICULOUS! Right! Give me a BREAK!" Holla!

BTW, I'm not defending Doc Wladimir. I'm just spitting out the jive that is in our seedy, shady sport. Holla TWICE!


As crazy as you can be sometimes, at others, you are 6,000,000% correct. Who would you prefer to write about this topic?

amayseng says:

do the rules not state it is a foul to push your opponent?

is it not a foul to hold excessively?

Radam G says:

Define pushing? Everything is define in the rules, and told how apply to violations of them. Holding is only when the ref says "Break!" And you don't do it within two seconds. Holla!

amayseng says:

shoving an opponent, in this case when an opponent is close shoving his head down by using your glove sometimes open handed and pushing his neck down bending him at the waist then purposely leaning your weight on top of him and in many cases dropping all of your weight on him.
exactly what wlad did.

RG i rarely disagree with you, ever, and hell one of my atg fav fighters ever is hopkins so i appreciate the tricks of the trade but what Wlad did was dirty and illegal. if he did it two or three times a round i could live with that, he did it constantly....

Radam G says:

Writing about the rules can come from any scribenquoting the rule books and commissions and the alphabet sanctioning organizations. True rules should be enforced and refs shouldn't be allowed to make up jive on da fly. Right at ringside, there could be an official hollering out what is legal and what is not. Matter of fact, just as in pro football where the quarterbacks have mics in there helmets to hear the coach on the sideline, the refs can have earphones in their ears to indicate something illegal happening. Holla!

Radam G says:

It is all right to disagree. But by boxing rules, Doc Wladimir was legally grappling -- which is allow -- and protecting to himself from Provetkin's attempts to ram him and other tricks of the trade. The game is full optical illusion that you have to be quick eyed to see. Holla!

Radam G says:

Time to go. The fight is starting over here in the P-Islands. Holla!

Shoulder Roll Defense says:

John Ruiz anybody? Klitschko's dominance is an illustration of the parity in the Heavyweight division. It's not how good he and his brother are, but rather how flawed and abysmal the division is! Imagine what Big George Foreman or Ali would have done to him back in the day.

amayseng says:

agreed SRD,

a prime tyson, frazier and marciano would have murdered him inside a few rounds...

among other just good fighters.

Radam G says:

They would have knocked him the double fudge OUT! Ditto, SRD! Holla!

brownsugar says:

Very disappointing... The fight didn't resemble a boxing match at all...it looked like a guy getting mugged in a dark alley ....the only thing missing was Klitschko reaching into Povetkins trunks looking for his wallet. Povetkin gets points for fighting with passion and lasting the distance.
Will HBO now initiate a life time ban against the big guy...or will the boxing commission create a super heavyweight division?

Domenic says:

There are 10-12 guys in the NBA right now that could EASILY beat Klitschko with about 6 weeks of prep. The crazy thing is why they don't just do it. Even if it's a one and done. It just shows how devalued being heavyweight champion is. Think about it. 6 weeks of work, KO Klitschko, make about 15mm, and update your CV with "former heavyweight champion." I'm absolutely astonished as to why guys don't just do it. A guy should do it in the offseason and he'll never miss a game. Then just give boxing up. Be 1-0 and out.

brownsugar says:

Cause its not as easy as it looks...99% of the time they will end up like Seth Mitchell.

amayseng says:

There are 10-12 guys in the NBA right now that could EASILY beat Klitschko with about 6 weeks of prep. The crazy thing is why they don't just do it. Even if it's a one and done. It just shows how devalued being heavyweight champion is. Think about it. 6 weeks of work, KO Klitschko, make about 15mm, and update your CV with "former heavyweight champion." I'm absolutely astonished as to why guys don't just do it. A guy should do it in the offseason and he'll never miss a game. Then just give boxing up. Be 1-0 and out.


yikes, i disagree with this.

being a professional athlete is great in all.

however most pro nba players who arent guards or a highly skilled forward do not have the coordination to dribble a basketball.

ron artest is a badass on the court where no one would fight him. put him in the ring with an average pro boxer and he gets sparked out in one round

Radam G says:

Domenico, let's not get crazy. Doc Wladimir would kayo those basketballers in the same night. And they would last maybe a third of a round a piece. So the doc would need about four full rounds to kayo all 10 to 12 basketballers that you think could ride with him. Throw in a whole team of footballers while you are at it. He'd kick their arses in a football's first quarter. Holla!

DaveB says:

Man, after I saw Ed Too Tall Jones gets his butt thrashed I know no one but a professional boxer would ever have a chance against Wlad in a boxing ring. And Too Tall had a boxing background. NBA players are some of the worst fighters in the world. I remember little Calvin Murphy kicking a lot of butt when he played. Wlad is hurting and helping his own cause. Helping it because he gets away with it and wins. Hurting it because he is stinko to watch. Povetkin should have been able to do more but it was still ugly boxing.

brownsugar says:

Agreed... Povetkin did do the things most observers said is necessary for a smaller man to topple WK. But he wasn't that good at it. the likely candidate would have to be as athletic as a prime Tyson and have the defensive vision of a Jimmy Young.
But for at least a few rounds Povetkin made it fun by applying the pressure, you don't see that too often when guys fight WK,.. they just stand there and get jabbed out of existence.

gibola says:

Wlad blatantly pushed Mormeck through the ropes and nothing was done. He pushed Haye out of the ring and pulled Haye's neck to get him off balance when he punched (hence all the visits to the floor for Haye). On Saturday night he threw one punch and grabbed until his opponent, pushed and pulled about for 30m, was tired. He's effective, he deserves grudging respect but I'm a boxing nut who doesn't give a damn about the heavyweight champion because of the way he fights. It's absolutely his choice, it gets results, but I don't want to watch it and I actually think he should be embarrassed by it. All the apologists for his style - I'm telling you he'd get DQ'd in certain rings around the world before the 4th round. It's all about the interpretation - remember Lennox Lewis got a final warning for holding Mike Tyson in the very first round? I agree to some degree about the head movement arguments, but Tyson, Marciano and Frazier moved their heads against guys who were much smaller and weaker and had a whole different mentality to Wlad - ie, they were looking to throw punches and only clinch as much as they could get away with back then. I remember Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker getting hammered for their holding against a peak Tyson - Wlad goes way beyond anything from that era. In a ring in San Diego in 1975 with an American ref, Frazier or Tyson ko Wlad easily. In Germany in 2013, with the way Wlad's fights are reffed? It breaks my heart to say it but Smokin Joe and Iron Mike couldn't win. Please retire Wlad.

dino da vinci says:

Wlad blatantly pushed Mormeck through the ropes and nothing was done. He pushed Haye out of the ring and pulled Haye's neck to get him off balance when he punched (hence all the visits to the floor for Haye). On Saturday night he threw one punch and grabbed until his opponent, pushed and pulled about for 30m, was tired. He's effective, he deserves grudging respect but I'm a boxing nut who doesn't give a damn about the heavyweight champion because of the way he fights. It's absolutely his choice, it gets results, but I don't want to watch it and I actually think he should be embarrassed by it. All the apologists for his style - I'm telling you he'd get DQ'd in certain rings around the world before the 4th round. It's all about the interpretation - remember Lennox Lewis got a final warning for holding Mike Tyson in the very first round? I agree to some degree about the head movement arguments, but Tyson, Marciano and Frazier moved their heads against guys who were much smaller and weaker and had a whole different mentality to Wlad - ie, they were looking to throw punches and only clinch as much as they could get away with back then. I remember Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker getting hammered for their holding against a peak Tyson - Wlad goes way beyond anything from that era. In a ring in San Diego in 1975 with an American ref, Frazier or Tyson ko Wlad easily. In Germany in 2013, with the way Wlad's fights are reffed? It breaks my heart to say it but Smokin Joe and Iron Mike couldn't win. Please retire Wlad.


I don't remember too many opponents being much smaller to those three.

Years ago, guys fought more often. Champions fought twice a year because of the prestige of controlling the title. Of course this is back in the day when there was one champion per division, then later two. Everyone else would fight a bit more often trying to position themselves for an opportunity. That's why when a Georgie Benton says to a fighter, "win tonight, look good next time" I'm in full agreement.

Win. That's the fighter's first obligation to himself, his family, his boxing team, his fans and the fan base of the sport. Pretty much try to accommodate them in that order. Some people you are never going to please. A win is a win a win is a win. Unless of course, when it's not. More on that next Monday.

Radam G says:

The only person that the late, great Smokin' Joe Frazier fought smaller than him was Ron Stander. And Poppa Joe hated fighting men smaller than himself or around his size. To him was "The bigger they are, the harder they fall."

BIG is an imaginary advantage for excuse makers. Holla!

Hop says:

Actually pushing is a new made-up "illegal" rule in the pros. There would not have ever been a Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Max Baer, Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Thomas Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Prince Naseem Hameed, Terry Norris and umpteen more boxers if all these New Jack rules of holding, leaning on the head and neck and pushing were around during their days.


Very surprised you didn't include the biggest push-off'er I've ever seen -- George Foreman

There are 10-12 guys in the NBA right now that could EASILY beat Klitschko with about 6 weeks of prep. I'm absolutely astonished as to why guys don't just do it. A guy should do it in the offseason and he'll never miss a game. Then just give boxing up. Be 1-0 and out.


Respectfully, but uh ... no way.

Carmine Cas says:

To touch on Domenic's comment Teddy Atlas has mentioned that basketball players transition to boxing better than football players. But no way in hell does that mean that they would beat Wlad, Dr. Steel Hammer is a highly skilled boxer, he didn't win a gold medal from just his size.

And in the Haye fight they were both deducted points for what was happening, Haye was the one who was really "flopping".

As for this fight, it was painful to watch. Povektin showed some promise taking the fight to Wlad but every time he got close he was trapped in Wlad's long arms. They were like tentacles of a giant squid trapping and subduing its prey, as the Russian just came straight forward in Klitscho's grasp. The thing is he failed to do this the whole fight, he didn't adapt. No new angles or feints, he just kept coming straight forward and letting Wlad lean on him. The ref warned Wlad late, he should have been consistent with the officiating throughout the fight depending how one interprets the rules. Povetkin failed to make Wlad uncomfortable and give him new looks, as B-Sug mentioned before someone more athletic with the Tyson-esq style would have given him more difficulty. Wlad is boring to watch but you have to appreciate his talent, it's not his fault none of the heavyweights can really challenge him

Radam G says:

Wow, Hop! I could $wear that I put the Big (Rev.) George Foreman in that push-off list. Danggit! I guess he can bytch out now when he is not even around telling me that Jesus This And Jesus That.

I stay away from talking about preachers and nuns. The preachers will rob me silly. And the nuns might slap me silly. Hehehe! Holla!

The Shadow says:

To touch on Domenic's comment Teddy Atlas has mentioned that basketball players transition to boxing better than football players. But no way in hell does that mean that they would beat Wlad, Dr. Steel Hammer is a highly skilled boxer, he didn't win a gold medal from just his size.

And in the Haye fight they were both deducted points for what was happening, Haye was the one who was really "flopping".

As for this fight, it was painful to watch. Povektin showed some promise taking the fight to Wlad but every time he got close he was trapped in Wlad's long arms. They were like tentacles of a giant squid trapping and subduing its prey, as the Russian just came straight forward in Klitscho's grasp. The thing is he failed to do this the whole fight, he didn't adapt. No new angles or feints, he just kept coming straight forward and letting Wlad lean on him. The ref warned Wlad late, he should have been consistent with the officiating throughout the fight depending how one interprets the rules. Povetkin failed to make Wlad uncomfortable and give him new looks, as B-Sug mentioned before someone more athletic with the Tyson-esq style would have given him more difficulty. Wlad is boring to watch but you have to appreciate his talent, it's not his fault none of the heavyweights can really challenge him


I understand he's traumatized from getting KTFO but damn! Whenever anyone gets close, he visibly panics and burns up nervous energy. He has the attributes to still win big without taking risk.

I mean, some of the times he would just jump in and lean. No punch, just jump in. Lean. The knockdowns were bogus, too. Even the legit one.

What's really bad is that Wlad's poor rep affects Vitali who doesn't fight like Wlad AT ALL. Vitali tries to kill you from the very first round, using the sweetest of the sweet science camouflaged in his robotic and seemingly uncoordinated movements.

Wlad's leaning got so bad that even the Lean Mean Leaning Machine Lennox Lewis said -- and this is a true story -- ""Lean On Me" must have been the last song playing on Klitschko's iPod."

In Wlad's defense, you gotta win first. At the same time, Wlad is the same guy who preaches about "entertaining performance."

I prefer Vitali over Wlad any day.

brownsugar says:

He said " Lean on Me" .

I'll never think of that song the same way again.

Carmine Cas says:

"Surely the Sugars of history were in awe of Wlad's combination mastery -- including the great Sugar Nicky Valuev."

LOL, yeah it was funny seeing Valuev and Zab ringside, especially Zab when he was getting excited when Wlad was teeing off on Povetkin

Same here, I prefer Vitali over Wlad.

Good assessment of Vitali

brownsugar says:

WK did throw a few good one twos...and some stiff jabs and uppercuts were thrown in to remind us we were watching boxing.

And while boxing allows for all types of contact like: straight arms, clinching, hold the back of the neck, holdind the neck under the elbow..using the elbow as a spacer etc...

I don't believe the spirit of the rules allow for some of the extreme and unseamly activity we witnessed happening in Russia.

Literally flopping over the entire length of the opponents back with the full weight of the upper body.
Flinging your opponent to the canvas with an upper torque move usually reserved for Judo. Straight-arming your opponent to the ground after landing a punch.

I don't care what the rule book says... The Ref cannot allow disruptive...bizarre and chaotic behavior in the ring or the event ceases to be a sport. It becomes something else....not boxing.

The ref should know when he's seeing this kind of non-sporting activity and strive to gain control even if it results in a DQ. .....Probly wouldn't have helped AP much.....but it would have at least been a boxing match.

Radam G says:

The rule book is for the ref and boxers, not the fans. Boxing is not meant to be a clean sport. It is a whup-arse one in way that you can get away with.

The ref did a good job. "Protect yourself at all times."

Don't bytch look to the ref for help. Provetkin was the cheat in this match. He forced Doc Wladimir to fight that way to keep from getting heat butted and hit low.

Provetkin was trying to pull a Cali Cranium Crusher's ram-you-on-da-fudging-eyelids job. But Doctor Iron fist was too slick. Give the man credit. At heavyweight, he is the best ***K! Hehehe! Call a spade a spade. Later for hiding in the shade. The doc was having any cheating. Hahaha! Holla!

Radam G says:

BTW! You don't have to have much skills to win super heavyweight at the O-Games. That Super heavyweight division was created for the benefits of giants and fatties. The regular-size heavies KICK THEIR ARSES, ROYALLY since ancient Greek and Roman days!

No man the size of the K-bros/Docs ever won the original heavyweight O-Games title. I will not back down OR fall into a dumb-arse belief that bigger is better and can crush smaller. Nothing but skills to da bills can do dat, babbbeeee!

Increasing weight is for the benefits of the biggums type of mankind. Not the norm. And when it comes to hard facts, I will always blow my horn. And never go passive and follow a herd of know nothings and/or cowards of height and size.

Again, and forever, size doesn't matter 99 percent -- the same amount as all things that exist that we cannot see. In other words, seeing doesn't matter that much.

Those of us who are healthy can smell more than we can see, anyway. Holla!

Hop says:

I stay away from talking about preachers ... the preachers will rob me silly.


Ah, come on, Rad'.


"Lean On Me" must have been the last song playing on Klitschko's iPod.


Good one.

Radam G says:

C'mon, Hop! Loosen UP! I donate a lot. Even the preachers tell me facetiously that it is "STICK-UP-FOR-DA-LORD TIME!"

Man, you are going to POP a blood vein right on the fore-noggin if you don't chillax! You will be looking like Hasim Rahman that time he popped one and developed a hematoma while fighting Holy.

Stress will make you a MESS! Jesus Even Told Jokes To Ease the tension. Hehehe! Holla!

The Shadow says:

Good one.


LOL it was Lennox, not me.

Radam G says:

BTW, HOP! You burst a lot of bubbles bringing up how "Big" [Rev.] George Foreman use to gitdown [sic] funky FUNKY with the pushing (and pulling and leaning on the back and dome). See a lot of readers in this Universe suffer from intentional intention blindless and pure hatred and like to nitpick the heck outta certain fighters that they don't like for what ever reasons, which appear to be natural one to me.

In other words, apparently it is because these fighters are out-of-the-American-and-Mexican group pugilists. WOW! I read some much turkey jive hatred of Da Manny and the K-bros/docs. And it was the same when Lennox Lewis and Joe Calzaghe RULED. Holla!

Hop says:

C'mon, Hop! Loosen UP! Man, you are going to POP a blood vein right on the fore-noggin ...


Did I seem irate?

Radam G says:

NO! But I'm down with O-P-P! Hehehe! Holla!

Grimm says:

I mean, some of the times he would just jump in and lean. No punch, just jump in. Lean.


He did, and when he did, he disturbed the rhythm of the man coming forward. No panic at all, just skill.

The Shadow says:

He did, and when he did, he disturbed the rhythm of the man coming forward. No panic at all, just skill.


I'm not sure I understand? I didn't say it wasn't skill. Nor did I say that was the moment he panicked because it wasn't.

What I did say is that his effective style isn't aesthetically pleasing. I also said that when people get close to him -- ie. when he doesn't have the opportunity to lean on people -- he freezes up. Panics. Burns up nervous energy.

That's why he fades. Manny Steward did a great job of covering up those weaknesses. The remedy is what we see.

What I did say is that Vitali takes unfair criticism because people say "the Klitschkos" fight a certain way when the two are very, very different.

Hop says:

I'm down with O-P-P!


Forgive my whiteness, but I ain't hip -- what's "O-P-P"? Or do I not want to know? (paraphrase if you must)

Radam G says:

White is all right! Don't get up tight. It is not your whiteness that need forgiveness. It'll be yo' Hip Hop-ness. Da top gun and top seller in the history of the Hip Hop Nation is Eminem! A straight-up super-together whitey from Money May's birth state of Michigan. And don't tell me that you don't know Eminem!

The greatest group in the Hip Hop Nation is the "Black-eyed Peas -- a group of an African-American, a Mexican American, An Irish-French American super-fine lady and an African-American-Pinoy. Hehehe! And he ain't even kin to me.

Anyway, O-P-P is from old-school rap from over 20 years ago. It means roughly being up in other people's pleasures/or problems. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

BTW! You don't have to have much skills to win super heavyweight at the O-Games. That Super heavyweight division was created for the benefits of giants and fatties. The regular-size heavies KICK THEIR ARSES, ROYALLY since ancient Greek and Roman days!

It took the Lennox Lewis two trips to the O-Games to win Super Heavyweight gold, you can interpret that however you want but at 6"5 Lennox turned out to be one of the best heavyweights of his generation, dominating smaller foes. Mike Tyson lost to the taller heavyweight Henry Tillman in the amateurs who went on to win gold in the '84 Olympics. I agree that size does not matter in boxing especially when you are just big and fat, the smaller quicker fighter will usually spank them. However being big also has it's perks, especially when you're well rounded like Lennox Lewis and the K-Bros.

Hop says:

Don't tell me that you don't know Eminem!


Um, I think so. You mean ...

Hop says:

The greatest group in the Hip Hop Nation is the "Black-eyed Peas".


No offense, but CAN'T STAND 'EM. Now this old school on the other hand ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYQV62WhkM

Radam G says:

LL was is inflated from 6-foot-3 3/4 to 6-foot-5 and sometimes 6-foot-6. And he is the best heavy of any generation. Mike Tyson never lost to Hillman. He was robbed twice. And kayoed both Hillman and Tyrell Biggs in da pros. He kayoed Biggs in sparring session in the amateurs. And was gift disqualified when fighting lesser fighters at super heavy or he woulda, coulda, shoulda gone to the games at that weight -- just as the late, great Smokin' Joe Frazier did 20 years previously.

The fix was in for Iron Mike not to go to the 1984 O-Games. Those in da game know. We already went over this subject, so I'm not re hatching it. Holla at Dino or The Shadow or refer to my archives or theirs.

Throw the size jive onto somebody else because it doesn't jibe with me. "The big they are, the harder they fall." Real guns are not scared or anybody fat arse or one that is tall.

You ought to halt your jive-time gotcha nonsense. I'm 100 legit. Not a poser and stalker and bulls yet walker and the Universe troll. Go on another stroll. And buy Uncle Roger May's shirt: "Most people don't know s*** 'bout boxing. One size fit all. Holla!

Radam G says:

Nuffin' but luv and respect for ya,' old schoola.' Holla!

Radam G says:

Nuffin' but luv and respect for ya,' old schoola.' Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Eminem, one of the greatest, I enjoy the Blacked Eyed Peas as well but not a big fan of Fergie. Black Eyed Peas is def not the best hip hop group, maybe right now because mainstream hip hop sucks. But within recent decades they don't even crack the top 10

Carmine Cas says:

Don't throw stones Radam

Carmine Cas says:

Lol I never said bigger was better, you're the one trying to one up me here don't twist my words with your jive. And Lennox is 6"5 don't spit your usual propaganda, he beat shorter fighters regardless.

Now I don't question Iron Mike being screwed but he was screwed at heavyweight not super heavyweight in the amateurs. I think you just have a napoleon complex my friend, don't worry uncle Roger's shirt fits all hehehehehe. Holla!

gibola says:

"Wlad blatantly pushed Mormeck through the ropes and nothing was done. He pushed Haye out of the ring and pulled Haye's neck to get him off balance when he punched (hence all the visits to the floor for Haye). On Saturday night he threw one punch and grabbed until his opponent, pushed and pulled about for 30m, was tired. He's effective, he deserves grudging respect but I'm a boxing nut who doesn't give a damn about the heavyweight champion because of the way he fights. It's absolutely his choice, it gets results, but I don't want to watch it and I actually think he should be embarrassed by it. All the apologists for his style - I'm telling you he'd get DQ'd in certain rings around the world before the 4th round. It's all about the interpretation - remember Lennox Lewis got a final warning for holding Mike Tyson in the very first round? I agree to some degree about the head movement arguments, but Tyson, Marciano and Frazier moved their heads against guys who were much smaller and weaker and had a whole different mentality to Wlad - ie, they were looking to throw punches and only clinch as much as they could get away with back then. I remember Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker getting hammered for their holding against a peak Tyson - Wlad goes way beyond anything from that era. In a ring in San Diego in 1975 with an American ref, Frazier or Tyson ko Wlad easily. In Germany in 2013, with the way Wlad's fights are reffed? It breaks my heart to say it but Smokin Joe and Iron Mike couldn't win. Please retire Wlad."

"Tyson, Marciano and Frazier moved their heads against guys who were much smaller and weaker and had a whole different mentality to Wlad " - just read the thread. I meant those 3 greats moved their heads against guys who were smaller and weaker than Wlad and had a different mentality, etc. I know they were small heavyweights what I mean is Wlad is bigger, stronger and a whole heap more negative than the guys they faced in their era. The fights are also referee'd differently these days. Sorry for the confusion.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;38254][QUOTE=Radam G;38213]BTW! You don't have to have much skills to win super heavyweight at the O-Games. That Super heavyweight division was created for the benefits of giants and fatties. The regular-size heavies KICK THEIR ARSES, ROYALLY since ancient Greek and Roman days!

It took the Lennox Lewis two trips to the O-Games to win Super Heavyweight gold, you can interpret that however you want but at 6"5 Lennox turned out to be one of the best heavyweights of his generation, dominating smaller foes. Mike Tyson lost to the taller heavyweight Henry Tillman in the amateurs who went on to win gold in the '84 Olympics. I agree that size does not matter in boxing especially when you are just big and fat, the smaller quicker fighter will usually spank them. However being big also has it's perks, especially when you're well rounded like Lennox Lewis and the K-Bros.[/QUOTE]

Well, in that case it's still the skills to use those dimensions that pay the bills. Skill is all about using your tools to your advantage.

Lennox lost in '84 to the eventual gold winner from the most medal-dominant team of all time. He eventually smoked that guy in the pros, although dude was damaged by the coca-ina at that point.

Henry Tillman got waxed by Tyson, bro. Those fights are there for the world to see.He knocked him up and down like a yo-yo. They took it from Lil Iron Mike. As soon as they met in the pros, the system couldn't protect him anymore and you saw the outcome.

In boxing, Vitali and Wlad only really have two things in common -- size and name. Wlad is more fluid but Vitali is much better overall. Everyone who's been in the ring with both says the same thing.

While I'm not saying I disregard size, it usually matters not if you don't have the skill and coordination to use it. Case in point: Julius Long. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4E0yMfdNEQ

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Carmine Cas;38267]Lol I never said bigger was better, you're the one trying to one up me here don't twist my words with your jive. And Lennox is 6"5 don't spit your usual propaganda, he beat shorter fighters regardless.

Now I don't question Iron Mike being screwed but he was screwed at heavyweight not super heavyweight in the amateurs. I think you just have a napoleon complex my friend, don't worry uncle Roger's shirt fits all hehehehehe. Holla![/QUOTE]

He was screwed at super heavyweight with complete and utter bogus. D'Amato and Rooney couldn't believe it. They had everything invested into Biggs. So they let him compete at 200 pounds where he got the shaft again.

Radam G says:

You never, ever been around the game, DUDE! It is CLEARLY shows! Wow! Just a cyberspace terrorist commando slowwit. That will blow up syet.

You are the worst troll this Universe has had yet. You are the same clown that fussed and cussed about Canelo being 5-foot-9 -- taller than Money May. But when they fought, Canelo was listed at 5-foot-7 and a half closer to his actually height of 5-foot-6 and some change with shoes off. [Height is athletic promotion exaggeration in all sports, PERIOD!] Your trifling ___ appears to have not been around any elite athletes, or you would know, buster/posers.

Nobody need to spread propaganda here, but your dumb-arse. This is a legit super-sharp Universe without the bulljive of those other sites that you troll in. That is why you bring inflamed, nonsense make-believe syet about what an ethnic group and region of a people eat.

Just go ahead and be the arse that you are, because you will be using that mop and broom for a bit -- if not for the rest of your frustrated, ______ life. What's wrong? The U.S. mainland is too challenging for you.

You believed that you would be a superstar, but you haven't got far. Life is tearing your arse UP! So you get relief by coming up in this Universe JUMPING in my grill, because you are scary bytch of the other readers/posters. Take some aspirins for dogs, ______! Because maybe you are the one who's having a large "consumption of dogs." You are barking like a QUEEN BYTCH KANINE! Hehehe! Bow, WOW, WOW!

You are good at making up dumbsyet and thinking that you are slick enough to make TSS Readers and Scribes believe you. You ain't slick! You are the small "D" word that rhymes with slick. The Shadow can easily embarrass you by posting that piece where Cus D'Amato CLEARLY said that he, Iron Mike and Kevin Rooney would fight at heavyweight, because the crooks that be had Tyrell Biggs penciled in at super-heavyweight for the 1984 O-Games, and had disqualified Iron Mike in a super heavyweight bout against a lesser opponent.

You ought to move on, and halt the trolling, because you look like one of those dimwitted Middle Eastern terrorists, and you are ____ ____ _____ and always lose in the end.

I'll let The Shadow kick your arse, because I'm looking dead at the old story that he noted and posted for me about Iron Mike, Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney. Holla!

Radam G says:

Stroll up, Casmine Cas! I see that The Shadow is already in the process of embarrassing your poser arse. BTW, a "napolean [sic] complex" is a myth that a failing soul like you throw around because he is the biggest CLOWN long on feet and short on brains. FYI, 99 percent of greatest people of all times in every darn thing under the sun, have been below six foot, not above it.

Any type of complex is for a POSER! YOU! Hehehehe! That size fits you, TROLL. Haha! Holla!

The Shadow says:

Hey, hey, hey I kicks no arse! I'm Swizz on this one! LOL!

The facts are what they are, though. This stuff is on the record and fully accessible to anyone.

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;38287]Well, in that case it's still the skills to use those dimensions that pay the bills. Skill is all about using your tools to your advantage.

Lennox lost in '84 to the eventual gold winner from the most medal-dominant team of all time. He eventually smoked that guy in the pros, although dude was damaged by the coca-ina at that point.

Henry Tillman got waxed by Tyson, bro. Those fights are there for the world to see.He knocked him up and down like a yo-yo. They took it from Lil Iron Mike. As soon as they met in the pros, the system couldn't protect him anymore and you saw the outcome.

In boxing, Vitali and Wlad only really have two things in common -- size and name. Wlad is more fluid but Vitali is much better overall. Everyone who's been in the ring with both says the same thing.

I know, and I saw that on Tillman's record, Tyson did annihilate him I was playing devil's advocate. I was not even alive when this happened. Lil Radam needs people to back him up, and I know the K-Bros are completely different;

"How can you compare Vitali and Wladimir? Vitali is made of stone and Wladimir is made of clay. When I taught Vitali something new, it would take a while for him to perfect the move. Carving stone takes time. Wladimir was easier to mold, but he would weather more quickly. They are two distinct fighters and needed different approaches"

Radam G says:

CC is delusional and apparently has some type of need to make up jive on the fly.

Facts and records don't matter to him. He is apparently down with scratching away records and stuff that is fully accessible to anyone. I guess it is like those terrorists that like to blow up any type of historical stuff that doesn't jibe with their belief system. Holla!

Radam G says:

See, the DUDE always tries to weasel out of every wrong reply instead manning up. OMFG! I'm out. Time to hit da pit. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Radam I wasn't the only one who was saying that was Canelo's height, I don't have the luxury of being on the west coast in the mix of these athletes. Oh wait, I know your secret you're a groupy h* you think you are better than other w*ores because your tiny arse doesn't have to walk on your knees like the other ones. Listen little man it's okay that you have to look up to others in this world, maybe reality in general for you is a bitch that's why you hate on the taller men. I've been outside of the US how about you cyber jive man? "BTW, a "napolean [sic] complex" is a myth that a failing soul like you throw around because he is the biggest CLOWN long on feet and short on brains." That theory was just made by a clown, a short one indeed who feels insecure and inferior about his height. The short man theory has been proven and tested, maybe you should go speak to someone dam dam "99 percent of greatest people of all times in every darn thing under the sun, have been below six foot, not above it." Welp if that jive happens to be right then I am only destined for greatness

"Iron Mike and Kevin Rooney would fight at heavyweight, because the crooks that be had Tyrell Biggs penciled in at super-heavyweight for the 1984 O-Games, and had disqualified Iron Mike in a super heavyweight bout against a lesser opponent." Was there any indication in my posts against that? Keep fishing, try again

Lol call me a terrorist nice, whose the biggot now? In fact there aren't many persian terrorists groups last time I checked. And I can hide in plain sight because my features are predominantly my other half; Italian. Cazzo, you're the queen bytch of them all you still have the yipping crying Chihuahua in your stomach that you stole from Rios' girl friend. Hahahhahaha, I'm just kidding but once again you have to visit the same topic because you can't admit that you're wrong. You are more knowledgeable than me when it comes to boxing this I know, but you have flaws like everyone else. At least I am man enough to admit when I am wrong

Hey Shadow why don't you holla at lil radam about the Henry Armstrong-Lou Ambers rematch, he "put all his money" on Lou Ambers knocking out Hammerin Hank....."He gave up the featherweight belt immediately and indeed got kayoed by Lou Ambers for the lightweight one" That's up for the public to see as well, shiet it's nice being a "janitor" and having your own office and computer I can look this stuff up easily and have other people come in at night to clean it for me

Carmine Cas says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;38298]See, the DUDE always tries to weasel out of every wrong reply instead manning up. OMFG! I'm out. Time to hit da pit. Holla![/QUOTE]

Hey Shadow why don't you holla at lil radam about the Henry Armstrong-Lou Ambers rematch, he "put all his money, and takes that to the bank" on Lou Ambers knocking out Hammerin Hank....."He gave up the featherweight belt immediately and indeed got kayoed by Lou Ambers for the lightweight one" That's up for the public to see as well, shiet it's nice being a "janitor" and having your own office and computer I can look this stuff up easily and have other people come in at night to clean it for me

Hop says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;38264]Nuffin' but luv and respect for ya,' old schoola' Hop! Hehehe! Holla![/QUOTE]

Thanks, Rad'. I appreciate that. I felt a bit bad when you called me a bigot at the first, but I'm glad you (apparently) think better of me now. Well wishes, [U]sincerely[/U] (no matter how/when we may disagree). K?

Radam G says:

I'm back from my morning run, and raindrops are falling on my head. I'm gonna have to do some talking to the sun.

Hop, apparently on that occasion of my O-P-P, I didn't come across well with that version of my jiving and conniving. My BAD! I was trying to say that you could be inattention blinded, not a bigot. And I used that from a long-out-of-published book by Mark Twain called "The Traveled Bigot." I've read tons of books published in the late 1800s and the turn of the Twentieth Century.

The book is a satire of Americans traveling abroad and not seeing the commonality of humanity. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Wow lil Radam actually apologizing, I guess pigs are flying, or not yet he still has to man up

The Shadow says:

Hey, I'm not involved in this battle, Carmine. LOL, no dog in that race. I don't know anything about Lou Ambrose or Hollering Hank and reasoning in a conversation where the premise is emotion I steer clear of.

I deal in cold, hard facts, logic and reason exclusively.

You obviously enjoy Radam's posts so why quarrel with him? You've admitted a few times now to playing devil's advocate (trolling?), which does in fact sound like a convenient excuse when wrong.

It's not about being right or wrong, anyway. I don't think anyone cares or keeps score LOL.

In all fairness, he didn't call you a terrorist, either. Like our good man Hop (let that go, buddy), you're taking an analogy as a personal insult. Or maybe you were just fishing. I don't care.

But I don't think anyone holds grudges (come on -- it's cyberspace). I don't think anyone even gets upset when people disagree. It's general proclivity for stupidity that bothers people, I would think. me, anyway.

And you post sensible stuff and you don't bother me. But picking fights with Tha G just looks silly. It's a boxing forum. He happens to be a fighter and a smart observer as well. I just soak up all the insights.

Isn't that what a forum is for?

So let's call an end to this, shall we? Verdict:

1) Myths are aplenty and stereotypes are more. Before I first went to Africa, I feared a lion might eat me. Before I went to the US, I was told I would get shot. Before going to LA, I thought I would get hit by a drive-by. Pre-Germany, I thought the Germans would be racist human chefs that would cook me. None turned out to be true, by the way.

2) Facts and reason > all.

3) Cyber war is wack.

Radam G says:

WAAAAARRRRR! "What is it good for? Absolutely NOTHING! CASMINE C**T, you will be wrong a whole lots of more times. Let it GO! Let it GO! It's just ur-nother [sic] luv T-K-O! Hehehe! Danggit! You have a glass psyche/personality with your glass jaw. Hehehe! Quit being a man of straw. You are out of your league, cyberspace commando Colonel S-O-S for stuck on stupid. Hahaha!

Go back to one of those weak sites and fire away. Go Sahada! Har butlub har! Dam butlub dam! Do you eat the piggy ham. Hehehe! Can we all just get along. It is all right to be wrong. What in da double fudge is your problem? You are on another hizzy fit, because you blow before you know. NOW you know, you don't know. Chillax! Do you owe some tax?

You ought to holla at an honesty therapist. He or she can help you with that fabbing disorder, followed by that anger, that you apparent have. You won't get to first base being a poser in this Universe. So don't hate! RELATE! For you it isn't too LATE!

Buy gold! Go to China and Korea to see the peeps eat those imaginary "large consumption of domestic animals." Hahaha! Holla!

The Shadow says:

Watch BEING: MIKE TYSON RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

Carmine Cas says:

"1) Myths are aplenty and stereotypes are more. Before I first went to Africa, I feared a lion might eat me. Before I went to the US, I was told I would get shot. Before going to LA, I thought I would get hit by a drive-by. Pre-Germany, I thought the Germans would be racist human chefs that would cook me. None turned out to be true, by the way.

2) Facts and reason > all.

3) Declaring cyber war is wack."

This isn't the site for name calling that you're correct, Radam is just better at hiding his initial trolling because if you were to actually read the posts he initiates the banter with the same old bs from a previous discussions. Attempting to single me out as of recent while I'm just chilling ,minding my own business, he has the grudge not me. I've moved on from the ethnic arguments.

And I bring up Lou Amber-Henry Armstrong II because you were quick to critique my preceding comments in this post, so I asked you as a neutral observer to look up the result of the fight yourself and tell us the facts.

We all have a right to express our opinions in a reasonable and respectful method and to challenge others, but when you are insulted for having different opinions it is not right.

And yes, not all stereo types are real but they have their truths as well. When I traveled to southern Europe I saw the stereo types of europeans being slower than Americans prevalent to a degree. When I traveled to Iran, I saw male chauvinism and lack of female autonomy present (albeit religious fanatics who the US and UK placed in power are in charge). Like you said, facts and reason. Lol getting eaten by a lion in Africa? That could also happen here with over 3,000 illegally owned big cats in this country. I accept the negatives of my background but some people can't swallow the truth about their own, and keep trolling me with it.

I respect the knowledge that you and Radam bring to this forum and I do learn from it. But when I feel that I am attacked or challenged I have a right to respond on this forum in an educated manner. If I'm not mistaken you and Amayseng have come close to tussling. So when Radam feels the need to come at me with his "jive" I give it back to him.

Carmine Cas says:

Radam, we've all been wrong on this forum including yourself and I. Grow up, man up, and shut up. And I will go to China and Korea and take some pix just for you; no source is good enough for you unless it comes from you. Get out from under your rock. Holla!

Hop says:

@ Radam:

To whatever extent your last post to me [U]was[/U] an apology (not sure; CC felt it was), of course I accept. I have made (and make) legions of mistakes. Please call me on any you see. Also, I know how sometimes on forums like this 'spats' can develop, and who has been perfect in never typing something in retaliation that they shouldn't have? Not me.

Again, I think you were sort of trying to say you were sorry (forgive me if I misinterpreted), and that is sometimes not easy to do. Thank you. BTW, I do admire the tough training it appears you practice (road work, etc.). I wish I knew more about you as a boxer. Are you / were you a professional? I realize (I think) that you've sort of got a secret identity on here or whatever, but I'm sure there are things about your life I would respect. If you ever care to PM me and tell me who you are, be assured that info would be safe with me. I think you do trust me, even if you also disagree about stuff.

I wish you and Carmine Cas could come to some kind of 'peace'. You [U]both[/U] have some really good comments, actually! Maybe it's all in fun.

Radam G says:

@Hop:

Okay, as clear as I can get, I'm sorry that I gave you the impression that I call you a bigot. And, as far as Cyberspace Commando Carmine C**T, he is of a Thousand-and-One cons. And when a person -- as young as he is -- is in that deep, he cannot and will not follow the road of honor, respect and honesty. He's delusional that he is superior to certain breed and ethnicity of peoples. Holla at his archives, and observe how inflammatory his make-believe is about Asians, Palestinians, the Afro-American dialect of "Ebonics," and more sneak hatred toward umpteen peoples.

And all his anger comes and came because he hates to be wrong and to be corrected by in his words a "dog-eating Asian...(who writes) in broken Ebonics."

See, because this a boxing Universe, and I use boxing slanguage, terms and syntax, the cyberspace commando poser CC doesn't know that, because he apparently has not been around the game. Boxing language, slanguage and syntax are popular in pop culture -- especially songs and Hip Hop -- since the 1940s. Ex-boxers from "Old Blue Eyes," to "Hardest Working Man in Show Business" to "Fiddy" brought them there, along with comedians such as the late, great comic-men: Bob Hope, George Burns, Red Foxx and Richard Pryor. The list of entertainers and politicians is LONG! Off the top of my head, I could probably name easily a hundred.

Anyway, hopefully, you get my point. Holla at his archives. Just so that you will know, in the Pacific Ram, the type of people visiting causing the most problems are stereotyping middle-income-class people from the Middle East, where CC posted that he originates from. These, young, hotheaded types are always starting fights and attempting human trafficking. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Keep trolling

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