About The Weight, I'm With Team Canelo, Says Lotierzo

BY Frank Lotierzo ON September 09, 2013
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002 Canelo and Mayweather face off

"That's a complete lie. They wanted me to drop weight."

So said Saul "Canelo" Alvarez 42-0-1 (30), who takes on WBC welterweight title holder and pound-for-pound champ Floyd Mayweather 44-0 (26) this Saturday night, on the third "All-Access." His reference is to whether it was Team Canelo or Team Mayweather/Leonard Ellerbe who insisted on the WBC junior middleweight title holder coming in at 152 for a fight that's being contested for a title in which the maximum weight limit 154 pounds.

This is a joke and there's no guessing involved here. There's no way, in my opinion, Alvarez would've been first to suggest that he would come in two pounds under the junior middleweight limit to fight Mayweather.

Golden Boy promotions employs Alvarez, and the two top guys at Golden Boy, Oscar De La Hoya and Richard Schaefer, know how the boxing negotiation game is played, especially by the likes of Team Mayweather. Team Mayweather knows that of all the fighters out there between 140/154 qualified, capable and in the running to fight Floyd in the next year and a half--Brandon Rios, Amir Khan, Timothy Bradley, Devon Alexander, Lucas Matthysse, Danny Garcia and Manny Pacquiao--Alvarez, because of his size, power, youth and style, is no doubt the most dangerous of the lot. And since the only perceived or real advantage that Alvarez possibly holds over Mayweather is size and strength, that is exactly why Mayweather and Leonard Ellerbe would force Alvarez to come in two pounds lighter than he would if he were fighting anyone else aside from Mayweather for a version of the junior middleweight title. They would, because they could. And that's what sucks about the business of professional boxing.

It's a fact that aside from one fighter wearing brass knuckles or tweaked hand wraps under his gloves, nothing can help alter the outcome of a professional bout like one fighter being forced to fight the scale for months before fight night. It's not even plausible to think, I don't think, for a moment that the notion of Alvarez having to come in at 152 for Mayweather was first offered by anyone associated with him.

However, boxing is a business first. Oh sure, the fighters, at least most of the ranked ones, want to go on to win the title and make as much money as they can, it's just that a lot of money trumps all else. A fight with Mayweather represents the biggest purse out there for Alvarez, by a country mile and then some. So of course Alvarez was dealing from a position of weakness when it came to the stipulations regarding what it took for the opportunity to get Floyd in the ring. At the end of the day, Alvarez reasoned that two pounds was well worth millions of dollars, so the fight was made.

Personally, I can't stand when a smaller, bigger name fighter, challenging for a higher weight division title, forces the bigger fighter to fight under his optimal weight with the belt on the line. That happens frequently today because the titles/belts have no meaning, it's about the superstar adding them to his resume so he can claim he's a four or five division champ, despite him hardly ever defeating the reigning title holder at the actual weight for the title. It doesn't matter if his name is Sugar Ray Leonard, Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather, I deplore catchweight bouts. If the smaller fighter feels the title holder is too big and he must drain down in weight to make the bout, well then maybe that fighter is too small to legitimately challenge for the higher weight title.

Middleweight champ Sugar Ray Robinson didn't force light heavyweight champ Joey Maxim to come in under the light heavyweight limit when he challenged for his title. Roy Jones didn't set a ceiling on how much WBA heavyweight title holder John Ruiz could weigh when he moved up from light heavyweight to challenge for his title, and when Jones defeated him it made the win more legitimate and authentic since Ruiz wasn't compromised physically.

I expect Mayweather to defeat Alvarez via decision and control the fight most of the way. Even if Alvarez was allowed to come in at the junior middleweight limit, my prediction would be the same. But here's the thing, it's conceivable that Alvarez might not be as physically proficient for Mayweather as he was for Shane Mosley and Austin Trout, his last two opponents. Isn't the fight happening so we can see if Mayweather can defeat the full-fledged junior middleweight dynamo at age 36 with his undefeated record on the line? Of course it is, it's just that we'll never know the answer to that question. What we'll know is that Mayweather beat a version of Alvarez who can in no way shape or form be better, and he'll probably be a smidgen less than he was physically than what he was for Mosley and Trout.

Wake up, anyone who thinks the catchweight clause for this weekend's Mayweather-Alvarez clash was suggested by Golden Boy/Alvarez, because it wasn't. It was Team Mayweather who not only first suggested it, but also insisted on it. And that's because they knew that a) they held the leverage and the money and b) because they knew that by making Alvarez having to weigh-in at 151 and change, he would be compromised in the only department where he held any advantage, strength and power.

So on September 14, 2013, we will have undeniable proof that Floyd Mayweather shared the ring with Saul Alvarez on a night he possibly may not have been as dangerous or formidable as the version we saw fight Mosley and Trout.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

Comment on this article

amayseng says:

What idiot would suggest putting himself at a disadvantage for no reason at all?

come on now of course floyd asked for a lower weight, they asked for 147, canelo agreed to 152.

will it hurt him? of course, but he is willing to take that chance for greatness. and 12 million

The Shadow says:

This guy writing this junk would not get a passing grade in journalism school for this fallacious piece of writing. I'd flunk him, for sure.

1) Last two opponents were Austin Trout and Josesito Lopez -- NOT Shane Mosley.

2) Floyd is the defending champion at the weight class from beating the No. 1 guy at the full weight limit. If you challenge the No. 1 P4P guy, you should go to his weight class. As far as I'm concerned, Floyd is getting the raw deal here, if you want to get technical about it.

3) Floyd's team evaluated his performances at the weight class and realized that he's essentially fighting light heavyweights. He then said he'd only fight at 147. He's the one compromising here.

4) Canelo's team brought up the offer to fight at 150 in 2011 and last year. So of course Floyd's management would say, "What about that offer you threw out there to get us to fight?" And they STILL met in the middle from there. 152 is a steal for Canelo -- and his team knows it. Check All Access and see for yourself.

http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-ready-mayweather-meeting-with-golden-boy--48230

[url]http://www.boxingscene.com/team-canelo-we-go-directly-mayweather-jr--47305

[url]http://www.boxingscene.com/saul-alvarez-ill-drop-150-floyd-mayweather-jr--46563

kidcanvas says:

if floyd was so great why a few lbs? never happened back in the day .. they were truly great ,hes a phony when it comes to lip service

Coxs Corner says:

@ The Shadow: Everybody who's followed Mayweather knows that Floyd never had any intention of fighting Alvarez at 154. As Lotierzo said, bringing the stronger guy down in weight is the surest way for Mayweather to strip away the only advantage Alvarez may, I said may, have had. Floyd has said more stuff because his game is subterfuge. And posting links from the biggest boxing gossip web-site on the Internet doesn't validate Mayweather or Ellerbe. Two years ago at that.

Catchweights stink. Mayweather beating Alvarez at 151 plus leaves the door open to believe it's very plausible Canelo wasn't the same fighter physically as he was for Mosley, Lopez and Trout. Anyone who has ever been around championship fighters trying to shed those last pounds to make weight know what a struggle it is, let alone two extra pounds for a young and growing fighter. A fact I'm sure many casual or even hard-core fans don't know. If Alvarez felt best at 152, he'd weigh close to that every time out. Watch Alvarez move up to middleweight after this fight!

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=Coxs Corner;36211]@ The Shadow: Everybody who's followed Mayweather knows that Floyd never had any intention of fighting Alvarez at 154. As Lotierzo said, bringing the stronger guy down in weight is the surest way for Mayweather to strip away the only advantage Alvarez may, I said may, have had. Floyd has said more stuff because his game is subterfuge. And posting links from the biggest boxing gossip web-site on the Internet doesn't validate Mayweather or Ellerbe. Two years ago at that.

Catchweights stink. Mayweather beating Alvarez at 151 plus leaves the door open to believe it's very plausible Canelo wasn't the same fighter physically as he was for Mosley, Lopez and Trout. Anyone who has ever been around championship fighters trying to shed those last pounds to make weight know what a struggle it is, let alone two extra pounds for a young and growing fighter. A fact I'm sure many casual or even hard-core fans don't know. If Alvarez felt best at 152, he'd weigh close to that every time out. Watch Alvarez move up to middleweight after this fight![/QUOTE]

ditto that.

good post

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Coxs Corner;36211]@ The Shadow: Everybody who's followed Mayweather knows that Floyd never had any intention of fighting Alvarez at 154. As Lotierzo said, bringing the stronger guy down in weight is the surest way for Mayweather to strip away the only advantage Alvarez may, I said may, have had. Floyd has said more stuff because his game is subterfuge. And posting links from the biggest boxing gossip web-site on the Internet doesn't validate Mayweather or Ellerbe. Two years ago at that.

Catchweights stink. Mayweather beating Alvarez at 151 plus leaves the door open to believe it's very plausible Canelo wasn't the same fighter physically as he was for Mosley, Lopez and Trout. Anyone who has ever been around championship fighters trying to shed those last pounds to make weight know what a struggle it is, let alone two extra pounds for a young and growing fighter. A fact I'm sure many casual or even hard-core fans don't know. If Alvarez felt best at 152, he'd weigh close to that every time out. Watch Alvarez move up to middleweight after this fight![/QUOTE]

Has nothing to do with my point.

Whether it's a gossip site or not -- which it isn't; it's the top boxing site based on traffic, readership and net worth, considered top site by promoters and credible enough for Sports Illustrated to partner with them -- has nothing to do with the fact that the Canelo camp REPEATEDLY put it out there. As late as last year.

I'm just pointing out the ridiculous fallacies in the article.

The first part of your post is based on assumptions and false premises.

As for the second part, you could be right about that. However, it has nothing WHATSOEVER with what I pointed out.

Coxs Corner says:

As if the writers and editors at Sports Illustrated know anything about boxing. Long gone are the days of George Plimpton, Pat Putnum and William Nack.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Coxs Corner;36214]As if the writers and editors at Sports Illustrated know anything about boxing. Long gone are the days of George Plimpton, Pat Putnum and William Nack.[/QUOTE]

You don't have to know a damn thing about boxing to attribute a quote from a story in the journalistic sense.

And FYI Chris Mannix does know boxing and is WELL respected in the boxing community. Ask Editor Mike. He respects the sport, doesn't pretend and is one of the hardest working reporters in media today. I respect his opinion more so than most boxing writers -- and I've been on assignment with ALL of them.

Buzz Murdock says:

Mayweather is more distracted, older, and carrying an entourage that would stress Atlas's shoulders. Canelo is a good fighter with stamina problems, but an experienced pro at 23 (he turned pro at 15), who is focused in a way only a young man can be. Mayweather is setting himself up to lose, believe it, talkin about car collections in different states, and thinkin he's Hugh Hefner (!)---I look for a big upset that seems destined to come from a place where access is denied----Canelo with late round stoppage, Mayweather concussed, confused, and wonderin who turned the lights-out.......

Radam G says:

Hehehe! All respect due, Buzz. But the fighter who will be getting buzzed and kayo is Canelo. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

@The Shadow.

Ah, where do I start?

1. Frank Lotierzo is the most knowledgable guy in the fight game.
2. Mayweather is getting older, Canelo is getting better. 1,000,000% guarantee that the weight was from The $$$ Camp.
3. I've tried reading your site, but find the inaccuracies disturbing. As not to slam anyone's past work (much too easy), I'll point out five less than accurate statements beginning the Tuesday after the fight.

SouthPaul says:

The Shadow


You're overstating Boxingscene's popularity. I enjoy their site be sure of that but they aren't seeing more traffic than Fightnews.com

SouthPaul says:

Dino

We can't be meeting like this so late..it'll get the TSS brethren talking.

SouthPaul says:

Frank is indeed a very knowledgeable fight fan but he's very, very hard on MAyweather. I believe the bar is raised too high. The closer PBF gets ...a little more Frank raises it.

SouthPaul says:

Dino


I enjoyed your betting post on the other thread. I forget which but I read it. Am doing more reading than posting these days but yes.... Fun read!

dino da vinci says:

Hey SouthPaul, it's been a bit. Frank is more than a fan. If memory serves correctly, he trained under either former World Middleweight Champion Joey Giardello or world class trainer Georgie Benton., possibly both. I'll give him a call and confirm. As for BoxingScene's traffic, it originates from traffic sent from Fox, a deal we rejected months before they accepted it. Traffic alone doesn't make you great. We're great, I know that. How do I know that? By the caliber of the people involved in the fight game that share their opinion with me. A lot of those other sites? White noise.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=SouthPaul;36229]The Shadow


You're overstating Boxingscene's popularity. I enjoy their site be sure of that but they aren't seeing more traffic than Fightnews.com[/QUOTE]

Ah, au contraire, mon ami. No, I'm not. I speak facts, not opinion. Check for yourself. Boxingscene has more than three times more traffic (and over 338% higher value and 3.5x more advertising income, if you want to get technical about it.).

Dino, like I just said: I speak facts, not opinion....or presumption....or factual inaccuracies. Speaking of five of those, I can likewise point at least that out in your less than 50 word "statement." Not trying to quarrel with you but you gotta come better than that.

Those three points aren't even worth dissecting (much too easy). Not to slam anyone's logic...

A rule of thumb when consuming media: Most of what you read is BULLS***. There are rarely 100% accurately reported stories. Op-eds, columns and blogs are just that -- opinion.

Generally, the most accurate thing you can find are quotes -- and they must be read in isolation. Because as journalists you are taught "transitions," taking you from one paragraph to the next which allows you -- in a supposedly objective context -- that allows the reporter to interpret quotes as he or she sees them.

That's the reason most fighters love and support Fighthype.com. Because they do Q&A and "don't twist their words," as Floyd Mayweather and Andre Ward say.

In other words, if you see quotes stating that his coaches said what they said, best believe they said it.

Especially when the real source wasn't even Boxingscene but boxing correspondent Salvador Rodriguez of ESPN!

So even assuming everything you said to be true about the lack of credibility of Boxingscene (I personally think there are crappy writers on there, but that's another point entirely...) it still doesn't change the fact that these words indeed were said:

"We are ready to get down to 150 pounds and make the fight. The people at Golden Boy will speak to to us next week when we travel to Los Angeles for a meeting. It is certainly a dangerous fight, but we can not miss the opportunity to face the best fighter in the world."

I repeat: I speak facts, not opinion.

#TryHarder

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Buzz Murdock;36222]Mayweather is more distracted, older, and carrying an entourage that would stress Atlas's shoulders. Canelo is a good fighter with stamina problems, but an experienced pro at 23 (he turned pro at 15), who is focused in a way only a young man can be. Mayweather is setting himself up to lose, believe it, talkin about car collections in different states, and thinkin he's Hugh Hefner (!)---I look for a big upset that seems destined to come from a place where access is denied----Canelo with late round stoppage, Mayweather concussed, confused, and wonderin who turned the lights-out.......[/QUOTE]

I don't think he's going to lose but I can certainly respect that take.

In all fairness, I don't believe the Hugh Hefner analogy came from Mayweather himself, though.

The objective of All Access is not to inform. They're telling a story using dramaturgy and narratives for the sole purpose of maximizing buys Sept. 14.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Buzz Murdock;36222]Mayweather is more distracted, older, and carrying an entourage that would stress Atlas's shoulders. Canelo is a good fighter with stamina problems, but an experienced pro at 23 (he turned pro at 15), who is focused in a way only a young man can be. Mayweather is setting himself up to lose, believe it, talkin about car collections in different states, and thinkin he's Hugh Hefner (!)---I look for a big upset that seems destined to come from a place where access is denied----Canelo with late round stoppage, Mayweather concussed, confused, and wonderin who turned the lights-out.......[/QUOTE]

I don't think he's going to lose but I can certainly respect that take.

In all fairness, I don't believe the Hugh Hefner analogy came from Mayweather himself, though.

The objective of All Access is not to inform. They're telling a story using dramaturgy and narratives for the sole purpose of maximizing buys Sept. 14.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=dino da vinci;36233]As for BoxingScene's traffic, it originates from traffic sent from Fox, a deal we rejected months before they accepted it. Traffic alone doesn't make you great. We're great, I know that. How do I know that? By the caliber of the people involved in the fight game that share their opinion with me. A lot of those other sites? White noise.[/QUOTE]

Strawman's fallacy. The point isn't traffic and whether traffic equates to quality -- because it usually doesn't -- but whether Reynoso's words were said or not. And they were. Period. The end. Dead issue.

Although, as an aside, that is certainly an interesting element and one I didn't know about. What deal with Fox is that?

amayseng says:

boxingscene is a site of immaturity and negativity. if you try to have a discussion there you are called names, bullied, disrespected and belittled.
the site is the opposite of what a forum is suppose to be.
here in the TSS you go to school, read, listen, learn, offer an opinion , have a discussion and are respected.
this place is the best for a reason.

@shadow, you want a good read and example of the best of this site has to offer?

check out a thread I started months ago and read each post,

"ggg is a straight killer"

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;36237]boxingscene is a site of immaturity and negativity. if you try to have a discussion there you are called names, bullied, disrespected and belittled.
the site is the opposite of what a forum is suppose to be.
here in the TSS you go to school, read, listen, learn, offer an opinion , have a discussion and are respected.
this place is the best for a reason.

@shadow, you want a good read and example of the best of this site has to offer?

check out a thread I started months ago and read each post,

"ggg is a straight killer"[/QUOTE]

I know what this site/forum has to offer. That's why I joined in the first place. I wouldn't bother posting if I didn't think there were sensible, intelligent people around. I've learned tons from here.

I love this place and I think I express that quite often in a variety of ways.

From what I do see on the comments on boxingscene, I agree with you. I see a lot of idiocy there. Not really a fan of their forums. That's what puts this universe HEAD AND SHOULDERS above any I've seen. The level of boxing -- and life -- wisdom here is quite remarkable.

I'll check out the thread.

Radam G says:

Wow! You guys are wilding and I'm smiling. Hehe! Normally it will be a troll all up in my grill tryin' to git (sic) a thrill and a fill. Hey guys, at the ESPN Classic, I'm sure that it has most of the Amateur boxing archives of "Wide World of Sports." In those archives, you may be able to holla at Super Puglistic Scribe F-Lo's international Amateur bouts and bouts with the "Smokin' Joe Frazier (Amateur) Boxing Team versus The Muhammad Ali (Amateur) Boxing Team.

There is evidence and proof everywhere about good fighters from the 1920s to now. You just have to know where to look and open up that vault. Holla!

Jpjaco says:

Great discussion. I rarely post but read TSS articles and forums religiously! Who the hell are you guys? A lot of knowledge in the house.

I have every reason to believe that Team Canelo offered to drop weight, and everything we know about Mayweather tells us that he wouldn't have taken the fight without the catchweight. I agree that he tarnishes his wins this way, but from his point of view, his win odds go up with the catchweight, his betting odds probably don't change much, and at the end of the day history sees the W.

I'd like to think that Canelo making making 152 on a scientific diet and with a professional conditioning coach will be stronger, faster, and have better stamina than Canelo making 154 on his traditional diet and training routine, but I could be wrong. No eyes on training camp from this direction.

Either way, the science, focus and self belief that Mayweather brings to the ring should be too much for the young gun, but you never know...theatre of the unexpected!

The Shadow says:

Jaco, in all fairness, the Canelo side most likely didn't offer the catchweight when negotiations were going on.

I'm quite sure Haymon & Co brought that up at the table, pointing to that quote and "calling their bluff," as some call it.

I think that's where the confusion/disagreement comes from. They're technically both right.

In fact, I actually heard Cheerleader Ellerbe say they met in the middle from the initially proposed 150 and 154, which makes it 152. (Although they insisted on 147 at first.)

With Mayweather fighting Cotto at 154, I can understand why the Reynosos would insist on 154. "But when your management is inept," Ellerbe said of Reynosos statement to Rodriguez and just about everyone who would listen, "We take advantage of things like that."

Because Canelo was getting the Mayweather-fight regardless. There was no need to throw that out there. Just like DiBella throws out the 150-catchweight for Martinez, don't expect Floyd NOT to take it (should they ever fight).

I think Canelo has a high ceiling but he won't reach it as long as he's the boss in his training camp.

There should be a pecking order there. Coach ---> athlete. While smart, Canelo seems to think he's smarter than he really is. We'll see how that plays out for him.

Only 4 days left.

Radam G says:

Maybe The Shadow has been shadowing every muthasucka and da muthasucka's sidekick. Hehehe! Ellerbe is RIGHT! But Team Canelo is trying to save face by claiming "it was an error in the translation from Spanish to English." YUP! RIGHT!

"BLAME IT ON DA RAIN" -- I mean translation -- because here comes the PAIN!

As boxing scribe Gabriel Montoya straight-up blasted boxing for being so "d@mn shady," BELIEVE YOU Team May in this case is clean and really to get on da mean!

In all honesty Team Canelo was probably kidding around and DID INDEED BELIEVE the SUPERHYPE nonsense that Canelo was really that good and that Money May was a bit scare of him. Pops Joy May was always saying that his "son would fight Canelo at nuffin [sic] but at 147."

Team Canelo, believing the red-headed-hype jive, OFFERED a "catchweight." The Shadow Al Haymon, GBP, Showtime and The Money Train suckered Team Canelo into signing stuff while TC was still on a SUPERHYPE high of bulljive and supergreatness fantasy.

[See all decent boxers and decent athletes in general and entertainers and warriors PERIOD are bipolar ordered -- not bipolar disordered! Bipolar ORDERED! There is a BIG distinction. Athletes and warriors/high-skilled/talented competing people need great management. We don't think clearly about negotiating because of that killer-thriller instinct urge. While in the moment, we believe that we can do anything. This why you see athlete change their minds so often, because good management was there to restore calm. Don't forget that the late, great Sugar Ray Robinson used to agree to fight every fighter in the world, then would bytch pullout after talking with his trainers and management.]

Of course, TC is saying that it never agreed to a catchweight because it's gonna catch an arse thrashing -- AN EASY ONE for TMT! Canelo is arrogant, a hothead, a poser and does INDEED boss ev'ybody around in his camp. He doesn't know the order of his place. Dude is a run-it-his-way _____ _______! He has bit off more than he can chew. And now a severe arse thrashing is dude.

He has always had he way until running into Money May. And this is serious -- not a PLAY! KTFO Canelo is going to lay [sic]. Bet on it! Holla!

The Shadow says:

There you have it. Facts > all.

And bipolar ordered is oh-so true. To truly succeed in sports, you must be almost pathologically uber-competitive. In combat sports even more so -- you must truly believe that you are King Kong.

It's almost a form of "da whammy."

That's why fighters always talk about "I beat him when he was undefeated." Or, "he doesn't know how to lose," or any variations of that dictum. Because fighters know it means a helluva lot more.

Some fighters never recover from losing that illusion. That's why once-defeated look like junk subsequently, sometimes fall into clinical depression, and often times end up on the coca-ina, kush and the hootch -- as the old schoolers call it.

(Like Sheikie Baby always says, "It's the medicine, baba. A to the Z.")

Their entire self-image is tied into the King Kong illusion that must be upheld in the mind to perform at maximum capacity.

It's the management's job not to shatter that self-image. Until they're ready to cash out, anyway. HAHAHA!

For that reason, like The G-Thang astutely pointed out, the last guy in the world to involve in negotiations is the fighter. It's the management's job to protect the fighter from the monster they created, ie. the fighter himself.

Undefeated fighters talk the most outlandish junk. In 2009, when Chad Dawson ruled 175, he said -- with a straight face! -- that he'd move up and beat the Klitschkos. Andre Ward is saying similar nonsense. Tyson Fury truly believes he's the greatest fighter ever.

I bet you right now that if you offer Guillermo Rigondeaux a shot at Sergio Martinez, he wouldn't think twice. His management, obviously, would never allow it.

But fighters are fighters. That's why we love 'em. But once a fighter consistently begins to overrule management, checks will be cashed.

And unfortunately for Canelo, reality checks never bounce.

amayseng says:

i think canelo is a good strong young champion. but he has been catered to a bit and his resume is a bit padded. he is still solid and has good attributes, one most important may be his patience and cockiness as radam suggest, although that just may will allow him to stay with his game plan and not fall into floyds traps of chasing him around to eat right hands and check hooks....

the problem is that this fight takes place at 152, i truly feel that even at 154 floyd still beats canelo, just now
it will be a bit easier as the last two rounds canelo will be more sluggish.

floyd wanted one weight, and canelo wanted another, they agreed on 152, fine, but floyd, dont complain of not getting your respect and credit when you have a guy come down in weight....dont complain about sleeping in the bed you made...you asked for it and now you get it...and drop the "ALL i want is an even playing field" for PAC when you take the even playing field away from canelo..

the problem is this, floyd is the best fighter on the planet , the best fighter shouldnt be asking his opponent to do anything that may remotely tarninsh or diminish his ability at all...


everyone needs to drop they he asked for it or agreed upon the 152,

well no ****, i weigh 174 and ill drop to 152 next week for 12 million and the chance to beat the best..


who wouldnt

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;36257] ...well no ****, i weigh 174 and ill drop to 152 next week for 12 million and the chance to beat the best..
thats what canelo had to do to get the fight and opportunity

who wouldnt[/QUOTE]

He was going to get the fight regardless.

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;36259]He was going to get the fight regardless.[/QUOTE]

he must not have known that...i agree i think he would have, no one else could bring in the ppv money floyd wants....

Radam G says:

Canelo knew it! He and his whole team got cocky and thought that Team Money May, aka The Money Train wouldn't bite. Team Canelo got surprised in da middle of da nite. See in boxing, when incompetence is around, persons show up at vampire-awake hours to feed, bite and suck dat blood and get in you to waffle as if your arse is stuck in mud or lost in a flood. Holla!

The Shadow says:

He sure did. And Haymon & Co. are no fools.

RG, what effects in the gym have you personally seen in a fighter just coming off his first defeat who has to cope with the fact that he's NOT King King and that he's been lied to?

In public, I remember George Foreman gettin' dat a$$ whooped so bad by Ali that he a) lost his manhood, b) got clinically depressed, c) retired for 10 years, and d) saw God.

Then there's Ricky Hatton who attributed his depression, weight gain and hootch abuse DIRECTLY to Floyd. (Talk about a humbling a** whoopin'. Eating a turnbuckle in Ric Flair fashion has to be quite embarrassing as well.)

brownbomber says:

@radam @shadow @aseng

Have you guys seen the latest pic of canelo at "153?" He's looking very gaunt. Canelo's trainer by the way is an idiot, I just got back from gdl and most people over there would concur. I think canelo is going to be sluggish. Radam, does big money O's absence, hurt or help canelo hypothetically? Also since you are in da know, is it true that miss Jackson was an escort?

The Shadow says:

Every Bad B*itch from Miami is an escort to some degree. She's from my neck of the woods.

Girls around here will do A LOT to get ahizzead. TRUST ME! Girls are STRUGGLING out here. And beauty is dime a dozen so they have nothing to offer.

I've been offered to be a pimp for no other reason than the fact that I have my own apartment by the beach.

Them hos need a place to rest their head! Even three Sin City Sluts BEGGED me to come to Miami Beach and "work" here for "Daddy" while pursuing modeling careers. (And FYI - a media credential around the neck during big time fight nights is an APHRODISIAC like you wouldn't believe. They think you can get them photo shoots and stuff. Since most of the media look like fat trolls, a dapper dude like yours truly, Max K and J-Lamps sweep the field, no problemo!)

There are certain type of girls around here that are play toys for the playboys.

Every time you step out, you will see the ladies sashaying in front of whoever local ball player or imported celebrity being paid to post up in the VIP-section.

Shieeeet, my last South Beach babe read my superstar soccer nephew's Wikipedia, heard about his latest contract and had the nerve to ask for $100K for giving me "exclusive p****." I had to kick her crass curvaceous a** to the curb that very second.

As for Miss Jackson, I really, really doubt she was an escort in the traditional sense. But around here, screwing for money is a very gray area.

The Shadow says:

If Canelo is at 153 already, I'm not sure he's losing weight like he's supposed to. In order to rehydrate a lot and regain strength, you have to drop it rapidly and rehydrate rapidly. He should be at 160 right now. Or maybe there's some other dehydration-rehydration technique I'm not privy to.

Where's the picture?

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=brownbomber;36276]@radam @shadow @aseng

Have you guys seen the latest pic of canelo at "153?" He's looking very gaunt. Canelo's trainer by the way is an idiot, I just got back from gdl and most people over there would concur. I think canelo is going to be sluggish. Radam, does big money O's absence, hurt or help canelo hypothetically? Also since you are in da know, is it true that miss Jackson was an escort?[/QUOTE]

i have not seen it, i will go run the net for a look. if this is true it is really not good. canelo should cut weight and rehydrate for the fight....i think if he cut maybe 6 -8 lbs he could do it safely and not take too much away from himself...

but what do i know

Radam G says:

Never do I talk about a lady's past. Like guys who are ex he-hos get rehabbed and becomes a boy-toy for J-Lo, a rehabbed ho can get with Money May and relapse, so he'll let her go. Life is a bytch, and you never when you will end up in a ditch . The prez of France wife is an ex escort. I know a Saudi prince who is married to ex escort. Even in Sin City, there "Hos for Jesus" giving condoms out to the working girls/escorts.

The first person who saw Jesus after he rose from a dead coma was his escort -- Mary Magdalene. YUP! MM was Jes's main ho. Hehehe! I got used a time or two as an escort. Promoter great Don King even had me introduced as "Lil' Kim Ho. But he didn't cheat me outta my purse that night and Big Poppa wasn't mad at me. Hehehe! Holla!

brownbomber says:

It's on the boxing hype instagram.

amayseng says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;36279]If Canelo is at 153 already, I'm not sure he's losing weight like he's supposed to. In order to rehydrate a lot and regain strength, you have to drop it rapidly and rehydrate rapidly. He should be at 160 right now. Or maybe there's some other dehydration-rehydration technique I'm not privy to.

Where's the picture?[/QUOTE]

i agree completely about the weight and rehydration...

it seems canelo is doing what dlh did for pac, not a good idea...

i have spent a lot of time in southbeach and west palm.....my 3 sisters have lived their for 15 years...

i love that place

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;36283]Never do I talk about a lady's past. Like guys who are ex he-hos get rehabbed and becomes a boy-toy for J-Lo, a rehabbed ho can get with Money May and relapse, so he'll let her go. Life is a bytch, and you never when you will end up in a ditch . The prez of France wife is an ex escort. I know a Saudi prince who is married to ex escort. Even in Sin City, there "Hos for Jesus" giving condoms out to the working girls/escorts.

The first person who saw Jesus after he rose from a dead coma was his escort -- Mary Magdalene. YUP! MM was Jes's main ho. Hehehe! I got used a time or two as an escort. Promoter great Don King even had me introduced as "Lil' Kim Ho. But he didn't cheat me outta my purse that night and Big Poppa wasn't mad at me. Hehehe! Holla![/QUOTE]

True that, RG!

But Lil Kim Ho? Really?? LMAO!!

Well, since you started out with 12-rounders in just your fourth fight, your stamina is legendary -- and a HELLUVA USP for the Big Ps, Poppas and Promoters!

Hey, are you still active? Or is lawsuit moola, gold, and natural P-Island roids keeping you content?

Radam G says:

I'm straight, but never contented. Quit dippin,' The Shadow! Giving up my ID, I will not be slippin.' Away, you keep nippin!' But everyone of your journalistic tricks, I'll keep clippin.' Hehehe! Holla!

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=Radam G;36296]I'm straight, but never contented. Quit dippin,' The Shadow! Giving up my ID, I will not be slippin.' Away, you keep nippin!' But everyone of your journalistic tricks, I'll keep clippin.' Hehehe! Holla![/QUOTE]

It's cool, my brother. I already know I'm barbershop jivin' with Buboy. Your secret's safe with me...

Reason I ask is whether the usual psychological (and monetary) factors that bring former greats to partake in shot fests ever haunt you.

And I'm semi-retired from journalism, anyway! Like Big George in the '80s and '90s, I just moonlight as one whenever something fun like The One gives me an excuse to do so.

I'm in the business of import of human cargo in the trillion dollar education industry! No mystery investigation from El Sombra haha. Now THAT will make you holla!

stormcentre says:

The best and smartest thing Canelo can do with situation, IMO, is to not get too caught up in it.

Ellerbe is just angling to emotionally disturb both Alvarez and his team on the big stage.

Alvarez will already be quite predictable (for Floyd) as it is.

Canleo coming in to the ring on the big night feeling he has something (more) to prove will not serve him or staying loose, stamina preservation and remaining flexible (which is what he needs to do), well.

The Shadow says:

[QUOTE=amayseng;36285]i agree completely about the weight and rehydration...

it seems canelo is doing what dlh did for pac, not a good idea...

i have spent a lot of time in southbeach and west palm.....my 3 sisters have lived their for 15 years...

i love that place[/QUOTE]

Dude, West Palm is NICE! (Going through old posts I never got to see is quite entertaining. I should be out chasing damsels with my Euro friends. I must be strange.)

dino da vinci says:

[QUOTE=The Shadow;36234]Ah, au contraire, mon ami. No, I'm not. I speak facts, not opinion. Check for yourself. Boxingscene has more than three times more traffic (and over 338% higher value and 3.5x more advertising income, if you want to get technical about it.).

Dino, like I just said: I speak facts, not opinion....or presumption....or factual inaccuracies. Speaking of five of those, I can likewise point at least that out in your less than 50 word "statement." Not trying to quarrel with you but you gotta come better than that.

Those three points aren't even worth dissecting (much too easy). Not to slam anyone's logic...

A rule of thumb when consuming media: Most of what you read is BULLS***. There are rarely 100% accurately reported stories. And op-eds, columns and blogs are just that -- opinion.

Generally, the most accurate thing you can find are quotes -- and they must be read in isolation. Because as journalists you are taught "transitions," taking you from one paragraph to the next which -- in a supposedly objective context -- that allows the reporter to interpret quotes as he or she sees them.

That's the reason most fighters love and support Fighthype.com. Because their content strategy is built around Q&As and "don't twist their words," as Floyd Mayweather and Andre Ward say.

In other words, if you see quotes stating that his coaches said what they said, best believe they said it.

Especially when the real source wasn't even Boxingscene but boxing correspondent Salvador Rodriguez of ESPN!

So even assuming everything you said to be true about the lack of credibility of Boxingscene (I personally think there are crappy writers on there, but that's another point entirely...) it still doesn't change the fact that these words indeed were said:

"We are ready to get down to 150 pounds and make the fight. The people at Golden Boy will speak to to us next week when we travel to Los Angeles for a meeting. It is certainly a dangerous fight, but we can not miss the opportunity to face the best fighter in the world."

I repeat: I speak facts, not opinion.

#TryHarder[/QUOTE]

What 50 words exactly are you referring to? Let's narrow this bad boy down.

The Shadow says:

[quote=dino da vinci;36228]@the shadow.

Ah, where do i start?

1. Frank lotierzo is the most knowledgable guy in the fight game.
2. Mayweather is getting older, canelo is getting better. 1,000,000% guarantee that the weight was from the $$$ camp.
3. I've tried reading your site, but find the inaccuracies disturbing. As not to slam anyone's past work (much too easy), i'll point out five less than accurate statements beginning the tuesday after the fight.



OK, 63. Damn me!!!!!!

Nevertheless, everything else I said = stone cold, verifiable facts.

I thought this was an old topic, though?

While we're at it, I'd like to see the five inaccurate statements. Hehehehe.

Check the quiz, by the way, bro!

I also put a report up from the Chavez travesty.

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