Will The Chin Betray Manny Pacquiao?

BY Michael Woods ON August 02, 2013
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Pacquiao Rios BeijingPC 130730 001aThe chin is a mystery in this sport of ours.

You can't teach a chin, can't really strengthen it, though you can, it has been argued, shore up your chin by bulking up your neck muscles some, so when a punch lands, your brain doesn't rattle in its pan as much.

The chin of Manny Pacquiao hasn't been a mystery for all of his career, not until Juan Manuel Marquez landed a counter right from Hell, Hell in this case being the state of mind for Manny-iacs after their demi-God hangs up the gloves, at some time yet to be determined, and forever steps away from in-ring combat.

That Marquez blow dropped Pacquiao like he'd been Tased, and a viewer had to be concerned when Pacman lay on the canvas for a spell, out of it, his brain unable to reset and adjust after the traumatic impact.

Today, we fight fans wonder, and all the Manny-aics hope, that Manny's chin hasn't been fatally compromised, that his wiring hasn't been altered irrevocably. We know that an athlete who suffers a concussion is often times more susceptible to suffering another, and some scientists argue, that athlete is even more susceptible to brain trauma following each concussion.

Pacman (seen above, with Brandon Rios, right, in Chris Farina-Top Rank photo) has been stopped twice; the first time came in 1996, against Rustico Torrecamp. That third round finisher came via a left hand, maybe to the face, or to the body, it is impossible to see from the sub-par video floating around YouTube. The left (or was it a right, as is stated in the book "Pacman," by Gary Andrew Poole?) sent the Filipino to the mat, where the ref reached a count of ten, and called a halt to the scrap. The TV caller yelled that Pacman's eyes were crossed, and his body language suggested a reaction to a head shot more than a body shot, for the record. In the book "Pacman," Poole says Pacquiao didn't remember getting stopped right after it happened, and it took him 30 minutes to get to his senses and absorb the loss. That sounds like head trauma, not body, but the jury I suppose is still out.

In 1999, Pacman was again stopped, in round three, this time against Medgoen Singsurat. The video evidence on this occasion is more clear. A right lands to Manny's body, as his back is to the ropes, and he hits the canvas. He's on his knees, then belly, his face a mask of pain. He tries to get up and is just about there but the ref reaches ten, and waves his hands, signifying the end. In the Poole book, the author states that Pacquiao was weakened from a harsh weight cut, and was "exhausted and dehydrated" when the body blow scored.

All in all, Manny has been more than durable for many moons since those disappointments occured...

So...Did Marquez put Manny into a new danger zone? Will that Pacquiao chin now be quick to betray him?

It's not hard, if you are not a Manny-iac, to ponder that perhaps the Marquez thundercrack left physical after-effects in Manny. The way he went down, rendered inanimate, dead weight, onto his face, the way his body lay, looking scarily lifeless. Lord, it looked not that unlike the reaction which flared when RKF was shot, what with the family and posse looking stricken and weepy and frenzied. "We have to ask, will Manny Pacquiao ever be seen in the ring agains?" HBO's analyst Larry Merchant asked, while Pacquiao, a minute after being felled, lay on his back, eyes open but unfocused. Manny had cleared many of the cobwebs, it looked like, after 1:30 or so, all were happy to see. But we can't know if there will be lingering effects, if a Brandon Rios punch could conceivably do a similar number on his brain.

I delved into the issue with another fighter with ties to the Philippines, "The Filipino Wrecking Machine," Mark Munoz.

Mark-MunozMunoz (13-3), a 35-year-old California resident, showed zero doubt that Pacman will roar back on Nov. 23, and show any and all doubters that at 34 1/2, he's by no means a has been.

"I know Manny, I know his character," said Munoz, born in Japan, the son of two Filipino immigrants. "He came from humble begginings, I've seen the city he came from, he's always had to fight. This fight with Rios is literally his life. He's had to fight for his life, to survive. When it comes to adversity, he's risen above on a number of occasions. This is not anything different."

What does Munz think will do down in Macau? Not Pacquiao, right?

"I think in the fight versus Rios, we will see the champion inside of Pacquiao, see what he's made of," Munoz continued.

The MMAer, who is expected to take on Michael Bisping on Oct. 26, in a UFC on Fox promotion, has trained at Wild Card, seen Pacquiao up close, and measured him. Before the second fight with Erik Morales, Munoz was at Wild Card, and hung some with Manny and trainer Freddie Roach.

Is there a possibility, though, that Marquez broke something in Manny, if not his will, then the solidity of his chin? "I don't think so," Munoz said. "I've gotten knocked out twice in my career, and I came back stronger." He won three straight after getting stopped via a head kick from Matt Hamill in 2009, and came back to beat Tim Boetsch in July, after getting stopped on strikes by Chris Weidman one year earlier. "It's the way you train, and approach a fight, how well you feel inside," Munoz said. "I think Pacquiao will come back against Rios more durable, and smarter. He walked into that punch from Marquez. I think (following the Marquez loss) Manny will be tougher."

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Comment on this article

brownsugar says:

Somebody was reading my mind.. a heart may be repairable but a chin has a fixed resistance..heightened only by adrenalin..... And that goes for Floyd as well because he was rocked hard too( although he survived ) neither one of them could withstand similar punishment consistently. If they stick around very much longer .... they will both suffer the fate reserved for those who tarry too long in the game of thrones...... Although I'd say Paq is more ripe for the taking.... Rios may be the # 1 .... he hits harder than Marquez... Can Rios penetrate Manny's semi elusive defense and leave Manny splayed on the canvas?... of course he could .... don't blink......and ditto for Canelo vs Mayweather. I don't see Rios as a pushover for the former P4P great.

Radam G says:

In one word, NO! The chin will not betray Manny! As many greats have -- such as Brownbomber Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, Roberto Duran and Terry Norris -- been kayoed by punches that they didn't see, Da Manny will spring back and BANG out of his opponent. Holla!

amayseng says:

Rios is NOT a harder hitter than JMM.
Rios is not a hard hitter at all.
If you've been in that ring you will know there are different types of power.
Rios is a thudding puncher with a work rate to wear you down. He isn't a one punch killer.
Jmm is a sharp hard hitter. He was not a a one punch killer until he got on PEDS. A 39 year old with a genetically different body of increased fast twitch muscle fibers and more explosive punching as a result. This is my field. This is my college education. I saw this first ham with my peers playing baseball.
That's why jmm knocked PAC the F out. In 3 other fights he landed 300 right hands on PAC now all of a sudden at 39 and a transformed body and increased fast twitch fibers he's knocking PAC down and out with single right hand shots.
Common sense.
It's not about pacs chin. It has never been suspect like a ln Amir Khan.
It's about an even playing field.
Jmm was on peds and obviously it is coming out in the tim Bradley contract controversity with testing. The fight is on the verge of not happening.

Pacs chin will be fine.
PAC by knockout in 4.

Grimm says:

Rios is NOT a harder hitter than JMM.
Rios is not a hard hitter at all.
If you've been in that ring you will know there are different types of power.
Rios is a thudding puncher with a work rate to wear you down. He isn't a one punch killer.
Jmm is a sharp hard hitter. He was not a a one punch killer until he got on PEDS. A 39 year old with a genetically different body of increased fast twitch muscle fibers and more explosive punching as a result. This is my field. This is my college education. I saw this first ham with my peers playing baseball.
That's why jmm knocked PAC the F out. In 3 other fights he landed 300 right hands on PAC now all of a sudden at 39 and a transformed body and increased fast twitch fibers he's knocking PAC down and out with single right hand shots.
Common sense.
It's not about pacs chin. It has never been suspect like a ln Amir Khan.
It's about an even playing field.
Jmm was on peds and obviously it is coming out in the tim Bradley contract controversity with testing. The fight is on the verge of not happening.

Pacs chin will be fine.
PAC by knockout in 4.


Rios does hit hard - no doubt, and especially in close. If he can get into that range where he's at his most deadly, he'll be able to do arm. He's no one-punch-killer, but really - neither is JMM. When JMM took Pac-Man out, everything correlated perfectly: angle, space, timing, balance, technique and a touch of desperation, as well as the speed and energy of Pac-Mans movement forward. I bet the force of the clash between head and hand reached the levels of a minor car crash. So it's not a question of if it affected Pac-Mans brain, only how much.

Pac-Man may very well take Rios out. I believe he does. And his ability to take punishment may still be good - but not as good as before.

The article says: "(...) some scientists argue, that athlete is even more susceptible to brain trauma following each concussion." I'd say there's not much argument about that at all. We know that multiple concussions accumulate to a more fragile brain, hence why boxers who start at an early age - when the brains not fully developed - often end up worse, and why there's a world of hockey goalkeepers that had to retire due to constant headaches and impaired vision from all the minor concussions of taking shots in the head day after day. And yet, the neurological ability to withstand violence to the brain differs vastly between individuals. But the day comes when even the most resilient, hardheaded m-f is affected if he doesn't get out of the game in time.

amayseng says:

Rios does hit hard - no doubt, and especially in close. If he can get into that range where he's at his most deadly, he'll be able to do harm. He's no one-punch-killer, but really - neither is JMM. When JMM took Pac-Man out, everything correlated perfectly: angle, space, timing, balance, technique and a touch of desperation, as well as the speed and energy of Pac-Mans movement forward. I bet the force of the clash between head and hand reached the levels of a minor car crash. So it's not a question of if it affected Pac-Mans brain, only how much.

Pac-Man may very well take Rios out. I believe he does. And his ability to take punishment may still be good - but not as good as before.

The article says: "(...) some scientists argue, that athlete is even more susceptible to brain trauma following each concussion." I'd say there's not much argument about that at all. We know that multiple concussions accumulate to a more fragile brain, hence why boxers who start at an early age - when the brains not fully developed - often end up worse, and why there's a world of hockey goalkeepers that had to retire due to constant headaches and impaired vision from all the minor concussions of taking shots in the head day after day. And yet, the neurological ability to withstand violence to the brain differs vastly between individuals. But the day comes when even the most resilient, hardheaded m-f is affected if he doesn't get out of the game in time.

Agreed on post concussions.

What about the first knockdown jmm had on PAC? Single right hand shot thro pacs gloves as he was standing defensive ready for the shot and the force knocked him off his feet.

Crazy new power from jmm never seen before.

brownbomber says:

Only time will tell. I think PAC probably destroys Riosinside of 5 rounds. It will be interesting to see if rios can adjust

brownsugar says:

Rios does hit hard - no doubt, and especially in close. If he can get into that range where he's at his most deadly, he'll be able to do harm. He's no one-punch-killer, but really - neither is JMM. When JMM took Pac-Man out, everything correlated perfectly: angle, space, timing, balance, technique and a touch of desperation, as well as the speed and energy of Pac-Mans movement forward. I bet the force of the clash between head and hand reached the levels of a minor car crash. So it's not a question of if it affected Pac-Mans brain, only how much.

Pac-Man may very well take Rios out. I believe he does. And his ability to take punishment may still be good - but not as good as before.

The article says: "(...) some scientists argue, that athlete is even more susceptible to brain trauma following each concussion." I'd say there's not much argument about that at all. We know that multiple concussions accumulate to a more fragile brain, hence why boxers who start at an early age - when the brains not fully developed - often end up worse, and why there's a world of hockey goalkeepers that had to retire due to constant headaches and impaired vision from all the minor concussions of taking shots in the head day after day. And yet, the neurological ability to withstand violence to the brain differs vastly between individuals. But the day comes when even the most resilient, hardheaded m-f is affected if he doesn't get out of the game in time.


Interesting post

DaveB says:

I think Pac will win because he is technically better but Rios is one tough SOB. I do not think it will be a walk in the park for Pac. I think this one goes to a decision because Pac hasn't been knocking out too many people at these higher weights. Killer puncher years ago, damaging puncher now but not taking people out the way he used to. Rios does come forward though and it should be interesting to see what both guys can do.

brownsugar says:

Its funny .....Marquez KO's Pac , and now there has to be something wrong with Marquez.
Manny never made a single excuse for his loss but his fans insist on conjuring up all manner of controversy. ...and conspiracy...I dare anybody to prove it.
The brain is a funny thing. ...Accumulated blunt trauma force can effect each fighter differently. Even the ones who haven't hit the canvas yet. Some fighters develop a soft spot without even knowing it. Hopefully Manny has made a full recovery...the hardest obstacle will be removing the doubt... Once a fighter loses the veneer of invincibility, their opponents fight with even more ferocity. Rios will be believing in himself when they meet. Sometimes that's all it takes. Rios shouldn't win..when Pac's skills are taken into consideration...but you never know.

Radam G says:

Nothing is wrong with Hulkquez. He KAYOED Da Manny with skills and wills. But the fighter formerly known as a fair-fighting Juan Manuel Marquez, "the Aztec Warrior," let desperation get the best of him. He clearly knew that nowadays know-nothing boxing fanfaronades believe that a muscular body is da BOMB! And, as a seasoned fighter, Marquez knew that many of the Yank judges follow the what-is-in-style factor and what WOO the fans and watchers. So JMM got the services of the "Fallen" Angel Heredia to Hulkquez-ized the Aztec Warrior's ectomorph body into an "Incredible Hulk" one to get the favoring of the judges if the bout went the distance. But the bout didn't go and was not going the distance because Hulkquez aimed to KAYO Da Manny and DID. BUT if Hulkquez did get Da Manny, Da Manny was going to make the Hulkquez quit in the corner or take him out.

Everything is what it is. Baseball is suspending a ton of players in the next few days, Track and Field have suspended a ton of runners and jumpers in the last month. Football is making every player and his sweet tart "take da test." Boxing is being as quiet as a mouse, because it doesn't want to clean house.

The "Fallen" Angel Heredia is 100-percent involved with the dirty tracksters and a few of the baseball players. Plain and simple, the greatest, sneakest and sharpest peddle of "dat syet," as Pops Joy May call PEDs and roids is straight-up BUSTED.

He was going to serve as the condition coach for Bam Bam Rios, but Bam Bam told him to take a hitch when he learn the haps. And now Marquez and his trainer Beristain are complaining about "Buffet" Bradley demanding that Marquez -- before he turn into Hulkquez again -- be tested. Beristain is saying no, no and NO! WHY! Holla!

amayseng says:

I'm a huge jmm fan.always have been.
He's a premier technician.
My assumption of him using peds isn't a jealous rebuttal to the PAC ko.
It's an educated opinion.

kidcanvas says:

the chin had nothing to do with the ko by marquez. not a man alive that would of took that shot....it was placed right and unexpected... look at duran after hearns ..no problem

brownsugar says:

Nothing is wrong with Hulkquez. He KAYOED Da Manny with skills and wills to pay da bills. But the fighter formerly known as a fair-fighting Juan Manuel Marquez, "the Aztec Warrior," let desperation get the best of him. He clearly knew that nowadays know-nothing boxing fanfaronades believe that a muscular body is da BOMB! And, as a seasoned fighter, Marquez knew that many of the Yank judges follow the what-is-in-style factor and what WOO the fans and watchers. So JMM got the services of the "Fallen" Angel Heredia to Hulkquez-ized the Aztec Warrior's ectomorph body into an "Incredible Hulk" one to get the favoring of the judges if the bout went the distance. But the bout didn't go and was not going the distance because Hulkquez aimed to KAYO Da Manny and DID. BUT if Hulkquez didn't get Da Manny, Da Manny was going to make the Hulkquez quit in the corner or take him out.

Everything is what it is. Baseball is suspending a ton of players in the next few days, Track and Field have suspended a ton of runners and jumpers in the last month. Football is making every player and his sweet tart "take da test." Boxing is being as quiet as a mouse, because it doesn't want to clean house. Seedy and greedy, boxing always will be. And it doesn't care about what you know or see.

The "Fallen" Angel Heredia is 100-percent involved with the dirty tracksters and a few of the baseball players. Plain and simple, the greatest, sneakest and sharpest peddle of "dat syet," as Pops Joy May call PEDs and roids is straight-up BUSTED.

He was going to serve as the condition coach for Bam Bam Rios, but Bam Bam told him to take a hitch da double fudge outta his camp and Dodge when he learnt the haps of the fallen angel's latest predictament. And now Marquez and his trainer Beristain are complaining about "Buffet" Bradley demanding that Marquez -- before he turn into Hulkquez again -- be tested. Beristain is saying no, no and NO! WHY? Because just as he drank his pi$$ for imagined power, he took PEDs and roids to affect the scoring and to get a candy body and a second puberty.

Marquez ought to just come clean and retire. He is looking sharp with his after-the-fourth-Manny-Bout new mug job, nose job and hair plugs. Beside Marquez is sharp being a commentator on Golpe y Golpe

There is no around this, or out for Hulkquez. He shoulda kept his arse Marquez, and he'd have a fair-and-square win without anybody wondering, bytching and knowing that he took "dat syet!" Let call a spade a spade, no magic, trap doors or hiding in the shade. Holla!


Just as I suspected not one iota of proof.

amayseng says:

Just as I suspected not one iota of proof.


Ryan Braun has been cheating for years. Now caught.
Same as A rod.
And Manny Ramirez.
Just because there isnt current proof doesn't mean it wont come out eventually.
Look at berto.
He was a stud.
Got caught. Off the juice can't win a fight or even look decent losing.

vjoe says:

exactly....very similar type of knockout by huge puncher and duran showed zero residuals of the KO. if manny gets stopped, it won't be because of marquez.

brownsugar says:

We were talking about Marquez ... never has been any proof.... If anybody would be suspect it would be Pac. ... a decent hitter at 130 who becomes a devastating puncher at 147... after the age of 30...its unheard of. .....And being in the company of Freddy Roach where many cheaters have been exposed at the WildCard.. If all we have to go on is circumstantial and opinionated rumor in the place of real evidence then Manny should be at the top of the list... and should be convicted in the court of popular opinion..... Opinion and speculation is only natural ..
But it can never take the place of hard evidence... please post it when you get it.

Carmine Cas says:

Rios does hit hard - no doubt, and especially in close. If he can get into that range where he's at his most deadly, he'll be able to do harm. He's no one-punch-killer, but really - neither is JMM. When JMM took Pac-Man out, everything correlated perfectly: angle, space, timing, balance, technique and a touch of desperation, as well as the speed and energy of Pac-Mans movement forward. I bet the force of the clash between head and hand reached the levels of a minor car crash. So it's not a question of if it affected Pac-Mans brain, only how much.

Pac-Man may very well take Rios out. I believe he does. And his ability to take punishment may still be good - but not as good as before.

The article says: "(...) some scientists argue, that athlete is even more susceptible to brain trauma following each concussion." I'd say there's not much argument about that at all. We know that multiple concussions accumulate to a more fragile brain, hence why boxers who start at an early age - when the brains not fully developed - often end up worse, and why there's a world of hockey goalkeepers that had to retire due to constant headaches and impaired vision from all the minor concussions of taking shots in the head day after day. And yet, the neurological ability to withstand violence to the brain differs vastly between individuals. But the day comes when even the most resilient, hardheaded m-f is affected if he doesn't get out of the game in time.


Excellent post, it's been scientifically proven that you are more susceptible to concussions after each one. Sh*t I'm dealing with my 3rd concussion still and it was literally just a bump on my head in the right spot I guess? I didn't notice anything until training and literally felt like there was something loose shaking in my head and was getting nauseous. My initial two concussions were one year after another, I was not out cold in both. I started boxing a year later on and off and I've been able to take a punch, even from heavyweights. But right now I'm just trying to take it easy lol

Manny's situation is different because he got hit clean and out cold. Roberto Duran, Terry Norris, Lennox Lewis, and Joe Louis were not knocked out as severally as was manny they all were semi conscious, some even made it their feet. Manny was revived by smelling salts. He's taken a lot of punishment through out his career, maybe this was the cherry on top? This is all hypothetical, but the time off will be beneficial. Rios isn't a one punch knockout artist, he can still test his chin though if he gets in close. I think Manny can stop Rios but there is a lot of speculation and questions to be answered. I think if anything it might be more of a question of confidence than chin, but Marquez could have put a dent in it.

And I think the extra size that Marquez put on ultimately hurt him, he was getting beat the punch against Manny. Yes pacman as always faster than him but the speed difference was quite apparent. If I were Marquez I'd shed that muscle, we're not competing for Mr. Olympia

Radam G says:

As I always say, have it your way. But know before you blow. Punchers are born, not made. Da Manny have never been "a decent puncher" at any weight. He knocked arse out in all weights, but light middleweight. And Marquez knocked out arse in every weight. But only in welterweight all a sudden he came from having a life-long ectomorph body to an incredible HULK one in less than six months.

And he hasn't denied using PEDs and roids. He only claims that he did not use illegal ones. That is why there's a legal percentage rule of usage. The "Fallen" Angel Heredia gave Marquez da syets, plain and simple! And this is why Marquez is peed off at Tim 'Buffet" Bradley for telling Marquez that Marquez will be thoroughly tested by VADA, and thus will not be allow to TURN into Hulkquez again.

We would not even be discussing this if there was no Sin City 6-to-1 ratio of dat syet. Marquez will go down the lane that Lance Armstrong and A-Rod have. Unless Hulkquez "follow da yellow brick," get some advice from a brainless scarcrow, and lies and claims that the fallen angel betrayed him. The sun rises HOT, and so eventually does the truths. Holla!

amayseng says:

Just an opinion.
just an opinion based on experience and knowledge.
May be right. May be wrong.

Just an opinion.

Radam G says:

He was revived by time. Smelling salt is not used in boxing by professional doctors or anyone with a brain. That is toxic, dangerous, outdated jive of quacks and television doctors in movies. Giving a kayoed person "smelling salt" is more mythical than cutting a person's snake bite and sucking out the blood. Hehehe! "Had to get him smelling salt" is boxing slanguage for KTFO. Holla!

Radam G says:

Marquez is really bugging about "Buffet" Bradley's insistence that Marquez "BETTER AGREE TO BE TESTED BY VADA" or no fight. What up with dat? Marquez says he will use USADA "only!" WTF! I'm not making this jive up. Hey TSS Super Scribes, why do you guys get on your scribing master pieces?

It looks like Marquez will back straight-up down if Buffet Bradley doesn't let him monster up to Hulkquez again. WTF! Holla!

Radam G says:

Danggit! Pro baseball is straight-up wilding with users of "dat syet!" No way that pro boxing will follow suit. Just holla at the name who have been suspended severely NYET! -- Yuri Gamboa, Mickey Bey, Juan Manuel Marquez, Omar Romero, Jorge Arce, Mayorga, Joan Guzman and Berto. Eric Morales and Antonio Tarver were the only PEDs-and-roids using top North American boxers severely nailed. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Either way he was knocked out much more severally than the other greats listed, and sources have stated ringside doctors used smelling salts to revive him. Marquez should just lean back down again, that extra mass really slowed him down

Radam G says:

WHAT TYPE of SOURCES? From a crack house! Hehehe! Smelling salts [sic] is not USED to REVIVE a boxer, PERIOD! (Long ago idiot did it, and messed up many of a kayoed victims. But nowadays, not even the corrupted-arse commission allow dat syet near da squared jungle. That ammonia jive in smelling salt will inflame and clog up your sinuses and fudge up throat muscles. That syet can give you toxic shock sydrome.

Have you ever really been around boksing? C'mon, you guys in da know, help a Pinoy playa out! Holla at this dude about the reality of the actuality of da game. Cyberspace _____ _____ _____ are wilding with too much jivy jive. Jump on 'em like some bees coming outta a beehive.] Again, giving smelling salt is just boxing slanguage nowadays for GKTFO! And how can you measure the decree in which a person "was knocked out much more [severely] than other greats listed?"

Anyone who watches and/or knows boxing knows that a punch that doesn't appears severe sometimes kills a fighter or put him/her in the hospital even after going to the corner or the dressing room or the hotel room or home. Many fighters -- barely touched by the opponent -- have even passed out in the corner after winning the fight. And there are other times that punches that appear severe, the fighters walked right through them. C'mon, my man! You are reaching because of your subliminal Pacman HATE! So therefore, you cannot relate. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

The same sources that you use , so yeah a Nor Cal crack house lmao; regarding Marquez' "PED usage" which itself is a hot topic. Yes I have been around boxing not as long as you or other members but I am also younger. Yes fighters have been killed and permanently injured from punches that do not seem to be lethal. But that's besides the point, you mentioned previous greats suffering knockouts as devastating as Manny's. And you also mentioned in one of the initial reaction articles to the Marquez fight that Pacquiao's previous knockout losses were worse. After I checked out the first knock out loss, and stated that it was a body shot not nearly as bad you said "holla" at the next one, and the similar verdict.

Are you f*cking blind or just in denial? The former fighters did go onto have success after their knockout losses, but they WERE NOT SLEEPING after they got KTFO either (in fact some made it to their feet). Anyone with a pair of eyes and basic comprehension of neurology can see that when one's rendered unconscious , require time and whatever other aids to recover it's pretty serious. Pacquiao will be recovered physically from the head trauma by fight night, mentally though? But it is backed scientifically that once you incur a concussion you are more prone to suffer another one in the future. Can his chin hold up? I think it will and he'll go on to stop Rios, b/c Bam Bam is tailor made for Pacquiao (just like half of his opponents from lightweight up but that's a different story). But there's always a chance, that he can get caught.

You label me a pacman hater, I was not throwing the knockout in your face or anyone else's ; I was humble about Marquez' victory. If I were one of the the pacman haters I would have labeled him a PED user 2-4 years ago. But I instead labeled Mayweather the coward for his drug testing requirements, in fact I even believed his psychological fear of needles that stemmed from the first Barrera fight. But then I opened my eyes and realized his BOSS Uncle Bobby was just as eager to shoot out as many excuses. But it didn't stop there, I even argued with a fighter out here whose trained in Big Bear with Mosley and also with Mayweather in Vegas. According to him, Manny has not knocked out anyone since 09 because of PED suspicion, so he toned it down. I disagreed with his alleged PED usage.

The point is I call a spade a spade, I respect all who enter the square circle and fight valiantly. You call me a hater, cuz you're biased and quick to shoot down any opposing views, probably which stems from some type inferiority complex. You "reach" and I teach my son, and holla at the Tiananmen Square. You have yet to man up, I guess you choose to run away instead of manning up when you're wrong. You sure it wasn't Pies Muy Rapido?

Radam G says:

Apparently you aren't a deep-knowledge boxer, or you'd know that body shots are far worst than head ones, end career most often and quicker than head punches. You are in the crowd of melodrama. It looks awesome to get the head bobbed and popped to know nothings. But 95 percent of head punches can be shaken off, but an awesome body shot can stay with you for days. And really good ones cause collapse lungs, cause internal bleeding of the liver and guts. And a super can make your skip beats, stop beating and cause strokes and heart attacks. Ninety percent of early-quiting did it because of the damages ta' da gut, heart and kidney, not GKTFO to the head. You cannot run bullsyet on me. I'm 99-percent legit. And only one percent full of syet. Hahaha!

Trust me, my friend, I speaketh the truth. Boxing is seedy, secretive and corrupt, so you never learneth the truth. You need to get in the ditches of da game, and away from the make-up-syet-on-da-fly bitches. Dey make you nuffin,' but lame. You ain't calling a spade a spade. You're assuming and making up syet, and hiding in da shade. You have to do better than that if you want a decent grade. Because rounds, and ins and outs, the people in da know have already made.

Just so that you know, there are more internal organ damages in boxing than any other contact sports. But in your quick-to-a-prick behavior, you believe it to be brain damage and punch drunkness. Sorry! WRONG sport! That would be American football. Boxers shake that flash knockout in da cranium syet off. Holla!

Radam G says:

You will never get a cyber beef with me. Just skooled -- old skooled, babeee! You have a temper. Dat hot-headed syet just make you air headed. And faking with the air will just get you blown outta da water. Deal with the real. Use the neutrons in your head. Quit spittin' like the walking dead. Ikraaa, Hakee! Quit going Willy Nilly. Dat jive makes you look silly! WTF! You're traded roles with SCLA Ali. And jivin' and connivin' wif me! Hehehe! Holla!

mortcola says:

No prediction here. Just the statement that no amount of hero worship sitting at the keyboard makes a damn bit of difference to what is happening inside the physiology of the fighter. Maybe he is fine, maybe just looks fine. Don't know. And, Radam, in discussions of chins, don't mention Terry Norris. He never took a good shot AND he went downhill fast after his losses, and currently has obvious cumulative concussion damage. Great fighter, though.

Radam G says:

Terris Norris got damage in fights and training. Dude used to war in sparring too. He never had an off button. Also, no way that he should have fought as long as he did. Don't forget that the late, almost great Floyd Patterson also didn't have much of a chin. He got knocked down out more than Norris. And was well until a couple of year before he journeyed over yonder to pugilism paradise. And even the late, great Archie Moore had no better chin than Norris and Patterson, and he suffered very minimum obvious damage up in the noggin.

Did you ever think that some fighters are pre-disposed to the punch-drunk sydrome? Norris has an older sister, his mother and an aunt that suffer a similar way that he does, and they have never boxed or took much damage to the noggin. [There husband knocked out around a few times. So men are punk-@ss he bytches.] People spit about GOAT Ali's condition, but do they say anything about his late father and mother having the same problems.

No fighter should be waved "in discussions of chins." Because in the end, they are all different. One shouldn't lay everything on boxing that happened to them. Because it just ain't so. A shade is a shade. You cannot magically turn it into an ace, or a king, queen or club. In your cranium, off should always go a thinking light bulb. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Keep running away Radam, like I said holla at the Tienanmen Square article. All your fancy mumbo jumbo is transparent, you're an obnoxious ethnocentric who bullies others when they challenge you. You're 50% phony homie. I ain't mad at cha, in fact this is becoming quite comical. Apparently you're a little slow on the times but head trauma is becoming more and more prevalent, whether it's in the NFL, boxers, troops get their head rattled by explosives overseas, or just an accident. It's a serious issue that has permanent effects on people. Yes internal injuries in the body are definitely a major contributor but head trauma is equal if not greater. "The American Association of Neurological Surgeons say that 90% of boxers sustain a brain injury. Boxing may account for fewer deaths than some other sports but the numbers of boxers suffering brain damage are believed to be much higher than recorded."

"I am reminded" when I did confront you about Pacquiao's two previous knockout losses, at least one of them being a body shot; you dismissed it and said those aren't anything special. In fact pacquiao recovered nicely from those loses via body shot and went on to become a great fighter. John Mugabi after losing via stoppage to the Marvelous in which both fighters excreted blood in their urine from internal damage, next loss to Duane Thomas due to an eye injury. But he put together after taking off 14 months an 11 fight winning streak all ending within 4 rounds. The Marvelous one didn't appear to be beat up in his next fight to SRL, maybe past his prime but not a shell of his former self. Terry Norris ended his career on 3 fight losing streak 2 of those being via knockout. My friend's father, Kevin Moley a retired local fighter on the east coast clearly he's suffering from cumulative damage to the brain. Unfortunately there is no irreversible damage to the head, and I wish there was a turning back. I'm also reminded of you saying Sergio Martinez beating a punch drunk Paul Williams. Speaking about brain damage, let's talk about Jermaine Taylor, you tell me if he's the same fighter after he lost to Kelly Pavlik back in 07 or AA and Carl Froch?

Don't be scared dam dam, the truth will set you free face the Tienanmen Square article and man you will be

Radam G says:

Wow! Somebody is really delusional -- straight-up toasted with hallucinations -- and the world is watching. You know that it is some meds and therapy that you can take to help you take control of dat syet. Hehehehe! Your latest rant kind of reminds me of the DELUSIONS in the Middle East. And of course the delusions about "Asians' consumption of dogs" -- old Yank hate-war propaganda.

Too bad that you dumped your cable television services. You could holla at a couple of docuflicks that I co-executively producted. One was about how one's brains play tricks on him/her. And the other one was about how bullsyet in the Middle East trick arses. You are definitely playing and tricking yourself trying to trick others, including me. GIVE IT UP, babeeee!

Let it GO! Let it GO! "It LOOKS like ur-nother [sic] LUV T-K-O!" Some people are just so slow to grow. You said that you are a "younger." How much? About six-year-old and a half. You got my sharp-arse son by a month. Hehehe! But he is smarter and sharp than you by light years.

Did you holla at the movie "Two Gun?" I give my son two thumbs up for his bit-part $40thou performance. Next! He and I will be doing bit acting in the next "Rocky Movie" about Rocky coaching and managing "Apollo Creed Jr," the son of the late Apollo Creed, who was killed by that Russian in Rocky IV!

Don't you just luv da good life, aha! Like I've post! You have switched role with South Central Los Angeles [SCLA] Ali in gettin' up in my grill and syet. Whaddup wif dat? Bring it ON, New York CC, aka NYCC! Hehe! Just keep it clean. No need to go racist and bigoted. See! Because I KICK yo' @ss so adroitly, you go viral with that nimcompoop jive! Hahahaha! HOLLA at Da Manny and Bam Bam up in NYC! Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

You exude too much negative energy my son, you need the pranic healing of GrandMaster Choa Kok Sui. Let me heal you, this 22 year old "bigoted" yank is a practitioner. You seem to like pushing your superficial status onto others, don't hate on the middle class. Not all of us are born with a silver spoon in our mouths. And I hope for sure your son doesn't grow up to be a pompous elitist pr*ck like his insecure father. But as they say "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree." Don't worry dam dam when I'm on top in the industry, I'll give you and your son jobs. And it's "2 Guns" if you're going to take the liberty of quoting something at least spell it right. Unless "Two Guns" is some movie you and your nor cal possy cheaply made in your backyard LOL

I have fios, what are the names mr. know it all? You say you kick my @ss on this forum, dude you can't even remember results of fights and when you are called out in multiple times you're p*ssy arse avoids the topic like Bob Arum and Merriweather avoided each other. Or maybe the accumulation of punches you absorbed are taking a toll on your trifling a*s? Lol the only arse you're kicking is your own cuz you're a JACKASS. I present facts, you throw "jive" and propaganda, and when you have no answer you label me a racist and bigot and change the subject. No need to belittle me when you're the one who feels little, just man up. How about you holla at me in NYC!

brownsugar says:

You young people have so much stamina...two days and two ten hour shifts later and you guys are still going at it like its only the 3rd round....... after the 4th round it goes to the cards.

This Manny versus Rios thread is getting a lot of milage....the fight is not until October but when all the responses are considered you'd almost think the fight is this weekend.. I'm not going to start anything by mentioning names but if Rios were scheduled to face Mayweather he'd get laughed out of Vegas and out of the TSS. ..... Also the way Elerbe and Floyd have been dissing Pac .... it almost seems like he's overdue to receive some karmic justice vs Canelo in Sept...be careful who you bet on.

Radam G says:

Elerbe is just a two-bit Money May flunkie. But Canelo has a karmic chance of every human getting wipe on the planet in a New York minute for their father's sinning. Holla!

Radam G says:

Wow! Don't be hating those born "with silver spoons" or wooden forks in their grills. Dey just got dey fills. You need to take some chillax pills. Don't be knocking anybody on up dey hills. Have some pity! We run your city. I luv P Ditty! OOPs! I mean P Diddy! C'mon, KIDDY! You will be all right! You are backed up, and need a _____ _________ of the night. BTW, it is "Two Guns," not "2 Guns."

Go holla at my Asian seed playing a Mexican chico. Hahaha! History sho'nuff repeats itself. I played a mexico kid too when I was five, his age when he did da did. Hehehe! Dude! You been hatin!'

After Da Manny finish biz in Asia, he's going to the Middle East -- Abu Dhabi -- to show out. You ought to go home and check him. "It's A Wonderful World." Holla!

Radam G says:

Hey, NYCC! Why don't you holla at me in Abu Dhabi! Dey got it going on. You can even drink beer without the Mutaween floggin' yo arse. Whaddup with dat Middle Eastern custom? I rather eat em imaginary "consumption of" Asian dogs. Hehehe! OOPS! I musta' fo'got! You Middle Easterners see a dog as a filthy animal as much as a pig. You don't eat the hoink! Hionk! Or the bow wow! My bad! I will just holla at some camel meat and goat brains and eyeballs and behave myself. Hehehe!

NYCC, you are a funny dude with your anger problems and hallucinations. Holla at those meds my brotha. I'm solid a 145-pound golden Buddha. Hahaha! Holla!

mortcola says:

Hey Rad -

Every autopsy done on every deceased former head-contact sportsman showed a previously unknown form of protein scarring directly correlated with Alzheimer's-like deterioration (similar, not the same). Some fighters don't take the punch well, ever. Some are freaks, for a while, in their ability to absorb punishment. What we are learning, now, is that they all eventually develop the same long term damage, which begins to accumulate LONG BEFORE the symptoms are visible. What you said about some being more predisposed to the punch-drunk syndrome is interesting and probably true. But it seems like every long term fighter and linebacker gets there if he keeps going. And, in our sport, we glorify the chin-heart combination - but never forget that what makes a legend also makes a neurological victim, a trial-horse, and then a corpse. Separate Question: Would Patterson and Moore have gone down as often had they only fought under 190? Floyd was barely bigger than me, and I ain't no heavyweight. Floyd was smaller than Roy Jones was when Jones fought Ruiz - and Floyd constantly fought heavyweights, while we make a big deal out of Roy fighting a limited Ruiz. Would RJJ have survived against Liston the way he did Ruiz. Let's hear it.

Radam G says:

Skills over sizes all day and night. The late, almost great Floyd Patterson was knockdown and outby smaller men in sparring sessions. But so did Sonny Liston. James "The Hurricane" Carter put him too sleep a few times. Welterweight/Light middleweight Clint Jackson use to whup on, knock down and out, such heavyweight champions as the late Michael Dokes, the late John Tate, Jimmy Clark, Willie Clark, Paris Flower and Leon Spinks, just to name a few. It is a myth that size generate less or more power. A flyweight like "Little Man" Harold Petty could kayo a flyweight to a heavyweight.

Just holla at James "Lights Out" Toney about how many times did Da Manny stunt Lights Out in sparring sessions. Long ago back in da day, it was routine for fighters of a buck 40 to 60 to tangle with over 200-plus pounders.

And I agree that brain damage can and have been found in aged cadavers, but in life, the brains made new connections to function around damaged parts that occured and may have occured in youngish life -- from around 5 to 50 years old, thus it didn,t affecf interrupt the quality of regular living. Holla!

Radam G says:

BTW! YUP! I think the primed Superman Roy Jones Jr would have beat up the snow-moving Sonny "Night Train" Liston. Running, moving fighters gave Night Train pure hell. The only way that he could have kayo RJJ is to play possum and get him to come in, as Night train got many of a fighters to do. Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

I wouldn't be shooting at the the silver spoon suckers if you hadn't blamed the poor and the middle class for socio-economic trife, and stated only the poor complain. That's such a pompous elitist bs statement, and if you want to be specific about middle eastern peoples the arabs are the ones who treat dogs like rats. Us Persians are more caring for animals, but I get it from my momma the Italian, my love for animals. Shiet, this little man doesn't even know about the asian cultures and he's trying to tell me about about mine.

Thanks but no thanks lil buddha, if I go to the man made islands I'll just pimp slap all the arab princes for having keeping endangered exotic animals as pets. And flick your tiny arse in the water for the FISH. Abu Dhabi is broke kid, and I don't want to go a land filled pollutant latent region.

Manny can go where ever he wants while uncle bobby shakes every last cent out of him, Floyd Merriweather is still making more here in America. All your jive about the asian expansion is just hypothetical, it's been attempted before and failed. But hey I want the sport I love to expand to other markets. But let's not get carried away here lil man, the manny's chin still has to check out. Why don't you holla at me in Barcelona and Cinque Terra in 2 weeks, I'll show you what true paradise is.

Lol I'm not even mad this child's play at this point, why are you talking about hustling mexicans? Hahahaha I'm not Mexican, I think someone still has the taste have bitter defeat from the hands of Dinamita. Racist bigot you are dam dam, don't be mad Manny will prob learn to keep his hands up now; it was bound to happen. And it's "2 Guns" can you not read or do you just live under a rock? Here's the link http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1272878/. My facts > your "jive". No drugs required my son, I am peaceful being through the art of meditation and energy healing, something from your culture you're not accustomed to. This is easy work, I'm bored. Save your bs for the fishes, they can hear you under water don't worry! Lol fish food

ultimoshogun says:

Just watchin Radam and Carmine go back and forth.

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