Zimmerman, Boxing, and Civic Duty

BY Springs Toledo ON July 30, 2013
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BWB2013                                                       New thoughts on old values for the Home of the Brave

No winner can rightfully be declared after The State of Florida v. George Zimmerman. It was a tragedy that became a fiasco after it was hijacked by an irresponsible media that longs to see a house divided.

The New York Times set the tone. It shrugged off the killer’s Peruvian identity and called him a "white Hispanic" and so reduced the fourth estate to a schoolyard instigator. The President—  who won’t be referred to as a "white African American" though his mother was as white as Zimmerman’s father— has been intimately involved. As a matter of law, it is settled: Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin in an act the jury determined was self-defense. But it isn’t over. The victim was brought up in the New York mayoral race just yesterday, outrage floods the internet, and protests continue in urban communities, including Chicago, where the reverends are wondering where the spotlight is when it comes to harsher realities like black-on-black murder.

At the center of it all is a quiet grave in Dade Memorial Park and a forgotten truth: A young man is dead and America is poorer for it.

Martin was one of our own. A child of divorce, a good to middling student who wanted to work in aviation as a pilot or mechanic, a recreational drug user, and a cell phone addict. He was also a six-foot, one-inch seventeen-year-old who liked to fight.

Zimmerman, and every other "Zimmerman" in the new America, would do well to learn how to fight.

DEADLY FORCE
According to the U.S. Justice Department, murders committed with a gun dropped 39% over the past twenty years. Other crimes committed with a gun dropped 69% during the same period. Possible explanations include lower birth rates, a combination of pro-active policing and long-term incarceration of chronic violent offenders, more social programs and government assistance, and the so-called "graying of America" (violent crime, like boxing, is a young man’s activity).

Few experts attribute the decline to private gun ownership, which has doubled since 1968. The U.S. leads the world in guns per capita, according to a survey conducted by a Swiss research group. It’s no contest; our rate is three times Canada’s and six times Mexico’s. In real numbers, there are over 310 million legally-owned guns across the land of the free, and sales are up.

That’s a problem.

The U.S. remains one of the most violent industrialized nations on the planet. And make no mistake; our natural propensities are made that much worse because our guns are within reach. The National Rifle Association disputes this and stands on the assertion that gun ownership is the mark of a patriot. It spotlights examples of self-defense with a licensed gun as much as the mainstream media buries them. The NRA’s lnstitute for Legislative Action invites supporters to contribute stories about the heroics of the "Armed Citizen" protecting person and property. Thus far this summer, there have been eleven entries.

But the facts shoot back. The Bureau of Justice Statistics found that "less than 1% of non-fatal violent crime victims reported using a gun to defend themselves." Meanwhile, the likelihood of suicide, lethal domestic violence, and accidental deaths increase dramatically when a gun is in the house. Homicide and "unintentional gun fatality" rates are off the charts, and they are especially bad in areas with more privately-owned guns and less gun control.

We have an image problem. An enduring one is that of the square-jawed American carrying a musket with one foot on a rock. It hearkens back to the Revolutionary War, when British soldiers invaded these shores and the call went out to every able-bodied colonist for the defense of hearth and home.

The second amendment is a tribute to that image.

What happened on the night of February 26th 2012 in Sanford, Florida is not.

BOXING: A CIVIC DUTY?
Able-bodied citizens in a first-world country should not need to carry a firearm to feel safe.

Self-defense is an absolute right, but overkill is not. Simply stated, if George Zimmerman knew how to use his fists, he would have spared the life of a teenager and prevented a media-driven frenzy that divided the American house still further.

Zimmerman was described by a witness for the defense as "a very nice person, but not a fighter." Dennis Root, an expert in "use of force" testified that he considers several factors when examining self-defense cases including gender, age, size, physical abilities, and special circumstances that can figure into such situations. Particular emphasis is placed on background and training, and for good reason. When a person finds him or herself under attack, the immediate question is whether the person is equipped to repel the attack.

When presented with the defense’s version of events that said Zimmerman was punched in the nose and soon mounted and pummeled before shooting his attacker, Root had this to say: "I don’t know what else he could do based on his abilities…not to be offensive to Mr. Zimmerman, but he doesn’t seem to have any…"

Years ago, I was hitting the speed bag in the basement boxing room of the Boston YMCA when a grey-headed trainer approached. The trainer’s name was Pete Cone. "Three hoodlums just tried to rob me," he said. He was well into his fifties at the time and took care of his housebound mother. He had an easy smile, a twinkle in his eye, and was so soft-spoken you’d have to lean in to hear him. I heard him. "Whoa! Whoa!" I said. "—You all right? Where are they?" Pete said, "I’m fine, just fine… I managed to knock two of them down but the third one, well, he ran off and I just couldn’t catch up to him." It should be mentioned that Pete also created monsters and once fought an exhibition with the late, great Emile Griffith.

The sweet science is a social hub for stories like this, and they’re not hard to substantiate:

  • Last year, an eighty-four-old former fighter named Peter Sandy was walking to a Tesco store in Cambridge, England when a mugger pulled a commando-style knife on him. According to Mail Online, Sandy threw a left hook and the mugger fell to the ground. "When he recovered, he ran off." Sandy said. "The punch was instinctive. I used to train for six hours a day and in that moment it all came back to me." He retired fifty-six years ago. The article is entitled "You Picked the Wrong Guy!"  
  • Rossie Ellis was a middle-aged ex-boxer when he was stabbed in the arm with an ice pick. According to the Hartford Courant, he turned around and knocked out the man who did it.  
  • Last October, the Telegraph reported that Amir Khan and his brother, also a professional boxer, fought six men who tried to steal his Range Rover. One of the attackers took a swing at Amir, who was three months removed from his third career loss, and was knocked cold when Amir pulled back and countered. The other five went down like Whac-A-Moles.
  • In Oklahoma City last December, a young man broke into the garage of a boxer, took a swing at him, and ended up taking the beating of his life. The young man’s mug shot says it all: both eyes swelled shut and gauze stuffed up his nose and in his lip. The Blaze entitled the article "This Is Why You Never, Ever Break Into a Boxer’s Home."
  • In Manhattan around 1970, a well-dressed elderly gentleman sat in the back of a taxi stopped at a red light. He spied two "young punks" running toward the doors on either side. While the driver sat terrified, his fare clambered out and "flattened both" with a right cross for one and a left hook for the other. Two unofficial knockouts can be added to the record of Jack Dempsey. 

These types of confrontations are every-day occurrences or close to it. Most go unrecorded though the result is the same —no one had to die.

When Zimmerman joined the Kokopelli Gym in Longwood, Florida, he was obese. He did a commendable job losing weight and turned up in a boxing class. At his trial, gym owner Adam Pollock testified that he was considerably "nonathletic" and never advanced beyond shadow boxing and working the heavy bag. "He didn’t know how to effectively punch," Pollock said, though the fault of that would lie with the trainer, not a willing client. An advertisement for the Kokopelli boxing program asserts that "transferring energy to a specific target is a skill that ANYONE can learn providing they have the right coaching." It goes on to invite clients to "learn to hit with POWER regardless of gender, size or age" and "develop practical defensive fundamentals like catching, parrying, redirecting and leverage stopping."

Pollock made it clear that in his gym, novices are not allowed to spar until they develop the requisite skill. Zimmerman never developed the requisite skill. However, he also took a grappling class and managed to advance enough to work with a partner.

"It’s very important to understand the difference between the two concepts," Root testified. "In grappling you have the opportunity to what we call ‘tap out’. You can say ‘I quit’ [or] ‘I give up’ if something hurts too much." Not so in boxing. "In boxing," Root said, "when you enter the ring with another person, you find you’ve entered into too much, you know, more than you can handle when you’ve been punched and injured already."

It’s an important differentiation.

It is nearly certain that a fight between Zimmerman and Martin took place on the grounds of the gated community. The defense presented a narrative that placed Zimmerman outside of his vehicle looking for an address to assist police in locating what he believed was a suspicious person. When Zimmerman proceeded back to his vehicle, Martin supposedly appeared and said "What the f*ck’s your problem, homie?" Zimmerman replied, "Hey man, I don’t have a problem." Martin approached with a balled fist and said "you have a problem now!"

—Even if we accept the defense’s version of events, an incident that begins with a conk on the nose should not end with a call to the coroner, particularly if the victim is an able-bodied male.

Had Zimmerman been trained properly and/or took boxing more seriously, he could have slipped the first blow and countered it with his own. Eventually, he could learn to counter a blow with a six-punch combination like the great Peruvian light heavyweight Mauro Mina, the "Bombardero de Chincha." Who knows.

We know this much: The sweet science is extraordinarily effective in the street. It breeds confidence, teaches self-control, sharpens the senses, and has been known to remain viable for self-defense long past physical primes. It can cancel out disadvantages in size and flab and it gives citizens something to hold on to, something other than cold steel. A well-schooled left hook is enough to dissuade most anyone from bad intentions. There is no need to kill him. Let him get up, wipe the red off his face with his sleeve, and stumble on his way. Once his head clears he’ll have new manners to think about.

The iconic image of the stalwart American proudly bearing a firearm is selling us short. For a people who have historically prided themselves on self-reliance and skill, why bring a gun to a fist fight? Patriots shouldn’t and true tough guys wouldn’t. The end result is only trauma for victim, shooter, and everyone around them. We just witnessed how traumatic it can be for the whole country.

There are a hundred forty-nine handgun ranges and a hundred sixty-nine boxing gyms in Florida.

Neither is hard to find.

 

 

 

 

 


Art credit: "Blood, White and Blue" by Jace McTier. http://www.mctierart.com/country_pride_boxing.html

See "Gun Violence is a U.S. Public Health Problem" (Celeste Monforton 7/13/12) for details not otherwise referenced. Dempsey’s late-in-life double knockout is found in his autobiography, Dempsey (written with Barbara Piatelli Dempsey, New York: Harper & Row, 1977), p. 285.

Springs Toledo can be contacted at scalinatella@hotmail.com.

Comment on this article

Radam G says:

Wow! WTF! Where did this come from? OMFG! Talking about the "Threatre of the unexpected!" I didn't see no Zimmerman jive coming again. Nevermind my double negatives. But true dat about how the sweet science can get down against a dummy in a street fight. I've whup large, huge arse first hand in street fights to know that. One dude even had a gun. But when he went for it, he caught a three-inch fist shot that busted his eardrum, broke his jaw and caused him to bit his tongue in half. Truth story! No bullsyet. I hate bullies. Holla!

Radam G says:

Wow! WTF! Where did this come from? OMFG! Talking about the "Threatre of the unexpected!" I didn't see no Zimmerman jive coming again. Nevermind my double negatives. But true dat about how the sweet science can get down against a dummy in a street fight. I've whup large, huge arse first hand in street fights to know that. One dude even had a gun. But when he went for it, he caught a three-inch fist shot that busted his eardrum, broke his jaw and caused him to bit his tongue in half. Truth story! No bullsyet. I hate bullies. Holla!

Bernie Campbell says:

You wanna talk sh..! Slavery!!!, Immigration, Irresponsible Communication, Supply and Demand, No Music, No Church nor Temple, Equal Gender association, Carpet baggers, Mental Health Gestapo, Abortion, American Caste, Confused Marriage State, Legitamacy, Ethnicity! Pornographic sedatives, Food Poisoning, Imposition of toxicisity in the communities of "attitude enhancers"! Sports, This situation between Zimmerman and Martin had nothing to do with defending oneself or the right to own a legal handgun! Holla!

amayseng says:

Statistics can be misleading. Of course gun deaths go up with a gun in the home.
So do drowning deaths when I have a pool in the back yard.
Make owning a gun an extreme caution with more stringent training and licensing.
TM was a hoodlum and its sad what happened, but my God a baby was shot in the face, a baby, a fucking baby, how is this not getting its own article?????
Teens shot a baby in the face, something is drastically wrong.
It needs discussed not swept under the rug because the teens were black and people are afraid to be racist to make it a talking point.
There needs a change in this country.

admin says:

I don't know what "communist" country Deepwater lived in. I think Deepwater's reasoning is beyond flawed. Toledo is lobbying for less killing, and Deepwater says he's "dividing" and not "uniting." I will proudly take Toledo's vision over Deepwaters' gun-obsessed any day of the week. Proud to publish Toledo, and will defend his stance every day of the week till the end of time. He is an advocate for less killing. If that is "communist," then sign me up for his party. ---Editor Mike

Radam G says:

I'm glad that I'm Asian. We kill in self defense on the mainland, and it doesn't make the back page, less alone the first page. Hahahaha!

Go holla at the movie "Two Guns" on August 2. See if you can tell what child star that my kid Denzoy is. I may send Editor Mike a $100 to give the winner of the right pick. I will be back in Cali tomorrow. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

I'm glad that I'm Asian. We kill in self defense on the mainland, and it doesn't make the back page, less alone the first page. Hahahaha!

Go holla at the movie "Two Guns" on August 2. See if you can tell what child star that my kid Denzoy is. I may send Editor Mike a $100 to give the winner of the right pick. I will be back in Cali tomorrow. Holla!


But then again you might not, right Radam?

Carmine Cas says:

The Obama administration won, the bush administration won, the fourth branch is victorious, corporate controlled system, and most of all the people of America lost. This whole Zimmerman Case was blown out of proportion, Obama is getting involved and now Jay Z and Beyonce give me a break. This is all a distraction from the bigger picture The Bradley Manning case, the drone killings over sea, NSA monitoring. The Zimmerman case is infiltrating pop culture, incidents like this happen everyday. Thousands of innocent women and children are killed via US weaponary, terrorism is supported in Israel and Syria and we fund all of this through our tax dollars, but you never hear about that. And when you do the people who give us the truth are labeled criminals; Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden etc The government is just trying to divide us and blind us from the big picture, OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE. I appreciate Spring Toledo's sentiment, but he's falling victim into the bs. Personally the NRA is a bunch of red necks. I believe people should have the right to bear arms (not assault rifles) but they must pass in depth background checks

SouthPaul says:

Interesting read, aggravating topic. I continue to be amazed at the folks demonizing Treyvon Martin. Specially those folks who call him a hoodlum, thug, criminal yet these same people rarely mention Zimmerman's past. I got breaking news for you, people, if you use the facts in this case you'll find out the shooter was the only one here with a very clear paper trail of aggressive behavior (facts, not opinion or hearsay). There's not a single shred of evidence against this kid to prove he was doing anything illegal while on his way to his fathers girlfriends home. A can of juice in one hand and a bag of skittles in the other. Hoodie over his head because it was raining. Paranoid and frightened when he realized he was being followed by some strange man. And it wasn't the same man in the courtroom whose appearance look like an obese nerdy gamer. What Zimmerman himself looked like that night was also stereotypical criminal. Shaved head with a goatee (slim to medium build). How was Treyvon even to know who Zimmerman was, let alone a wannabe neighborhood watchman? Remember: it's the teenager being followed...by the passive-aggressive adult who at one time or another had a retraining order out against him for domestic abuse (facts). Listen to the 911 calls. "these assholes always get away" Zimmerman says. He's already made the determination Treyvon was someone who once broke into the neighborhood houses (remember: there ain't a single shred of evidence to prove that). The person being followed and stalked ultimately decides to stand his ground ... The fight is on... Both men have no idea who the other is.. One has a gun... The other has juice and skittles ... Some fighting skills to boot.... A good possibility Treyvon at some point sees the gun on side of Zimmerman's waist..now he realizes he is truly in the fight of his life (important to remember it's Zimmerman who's been following the teenager and the teenager also has no idea who Zimmerman is) so he starts pounding the head of the strange man. Anyhow, no matter how it's sliced and diced ... Zimmerman brought all this on. All roads lead back to his wreck-less approach. He ain't no kinda hero. Classic case of an over aggressive asshole. The hell with boxing lessons. He should've taken anger management classes. And instead of arming himself with a 9mm- he should've armed himself with tolerance (this also applies to the rest of ignorant society- next time you find yourself in a discussion - test someone on the most basic civil right history/facts. The masses are truly ignorant and naive which is the direct path to ignorance and intolerance).

Bernie Campbell says:

Carmine, You aint whisteling Dixie here! Why in the fuh, should I bear a hostility just because the guy is a differnent tribe than me! The system appeals to ignorance! We're supposed to be long past that now! The "system" supports all these subtle stereotypes to grind their axe, to make the world "safe" for their kind that cant live under any other circumstances. They've been fed a diet of pure select fecis! They wouldn't know the quality of a good meat and potatoes dinner if their life depended on it! By now we should all be living to 120 years old! These friggun charm and trinket salesman want to force depreciation on us all! Why? John McCain, where are you? Andrian Broner, its your time boy!

Radam G says:

Ddv, quick being a smarty pants. I may just jack that up to $1,001. Hehehe! Don't make me go higher.

BTW what's up with all this jive about a murderer who got away name George any way? WTF! I smell a conspiracy! A straight-up PLOT! Hehehe! Danggit! I'm just jiving!

Over here in China, I saw Big [Rev.] George Foreman and four of his sons all named GEORGE! WTF! OMG! And they all were over 6-foot-6 tall and close to three bucks in weight. I think one of them was about three bucks and three. What fudge do they eat? Every and anything that they want to. Their pops is worth a half of billion dollars.

BTW! How many sons does Rev. G has name George? Dang! Rev. loves himself so much that he named all 10 of his kids after him. OMFG!

Tell me what's up with Red Coat Prince William naming his son GEORGE? Wow! This dude will probably be the Prince of Great Britian in the 22nd Century.

Sorry-boksing Yuri -- Yuri is Hebrew for George -- Foreman fought again this month. Danggit! July much be the month of the GEORGES! Hehehehe! Holla!

Radam G says:

B-Camp, cut it out! Hehehehehe! You can a dead man walking laugh at his own coming death. Hahaha! Holla!

Bernie Campbell says:

Radam, you talk too much entirely pure unadulterated bullsh... sir! I really don't even think, procees, and digest what say, with your words! Disorganized! No coherence! The truth shall set ye and I emphasize ye, FREE! George Groves is the major sleeper, I say he knocks Froch out!

Radam G says:

Hehehe! B-Camp, at least you didn't call me a "Friscoe!" Haha! Now those darn friscoes are full of bullsyet and birdsyet. Giggle, giggle, GIGGLE! Holla!

Carmine Cas says:

Carmine, You aint whisteling Dixie here! Why in the fuh, should I bear a hostility just because the guy is a differnent tribe than me! The system appeals to ignorance! We're supposed to be long past that now! The "system" supports all these subtle stereotypes to grind their axe, to make the world "safe" for their kind that cant live under any other circumstances. They've been fed a diet of pure select fecis! They wouldn't know the quality of a good meat and potatoes dinner if their life depended on it! By now we should all be living to 120 years old! These friggun charm and trinket salesman want to force depreciation on us all! Why? John McCain, where are you? Andrian Broner, its your time boy!


Hey Friscoe I don't know what Dixie you are smoking, you SHOULDN'T bear any hostility towards anyone for their race, ethnicity, creed, religion, etc. Judge them on their actions and character. But the rest of your post coincides with mine lol. The masses are fed bs and 75% of them believe it, and get off Broner's cack

Radam G says:

Wow! Z man has been hiding out in the state of Texas. One of those drunken cowboys are going to take him out. What a FOOL! He got stop in Texas carrying a gun. That place is still the Wild, Wild West. A young gunslinger is going to take him out. Every punk is trying to get a rep for taking out this George. He oughta go to Peru. WTF is he doing speeding in the Lone Star State? I'm not surprised. As I said, Z man will kill again before long. And don't be surprised if it is not a Tejano -- Texan-Mexican American.

What a nutcase Z Man has become. He is trying fate. And he is going to lose. Holla!

SouthPaul says:

The green light is definitely on him. He's got street bounty on his head.

When one finds themselves supporting ol' George remind yourself of the facts in this case. Retraining order against him for domestic abuse- terminated from a security job being overly aggressive with the patrons- expelled from a college class for being threatening to classmates- arrested for assaulting a police officer (charges lowered down eventually). Most important to remember! It was Zimmerman who took up following Treyvon. It was Zimmerman who ignored orders to let the police handle it. It was Zimmerman who carrying the concealed weapon. Is this a hero, folks?

Bernie Campbell says:

I don't know about this case, personally I don't care! The news and the propagandists will never get it right! You and I don't know what transpired! **** like that happens all the time! Im numb! I cant hear anymore rhetoric!! Ill tell you Hollywood and the media ran with it! Always in the case like this people make a lot of money! Its sad. If any pridefull idiot doesn't want to reason and would rather confront, well Ive got no sympathy! Those who live by the sword die by the sword! Why blow this sh.. out of the water? Get to the root! Prejudice, Politics, Pride, Drugs, Fear! Fu.. all you clowns!

SouthPaul says:

Once you sort out the propaganda, myths, & lies and all agendas... Its actually a simple case. A case of common sense. All wreck-less roads lead back to George Zimmerman. Treyvon wasn't out of place as he walked home from the 7/11. He wasn't on any property belonging to Zimmerman nor was he crawling out of a window after breaking into one of the other residents home. It's a known fact Treyvon was actually closer to his destination than Zimmerman was to his. Zimmerman was actually on his way to the super market when he deemed the teenager another one of these assholes who get away (quoting Zimmerman from his 911 calls-this is why it's such an easy common sense case- we get to use Zimmerman's own words against him). Even if one concedes Treyvon to being the first to let the hands go... That's easily offset by the right to protect and stand his ground. Zimmerman instigated this entire tragedy. The facts tell us that. The paper trail on Zimmerman also paints a clear case of someone who didn't have a full on his aggressive behavior. Wake up ignorant America. The facts are there... You just gotta actually do a bit of research.

Radam G says:

Ditto, SP! Z Man is definitely a sneaky, sneaky passive aggressive maddog. And he will not be able to hold back. Doing the same thing again, the cat is straight-up on dat track. Some red necks, brown necks, black necks, loose necks, pencil necks and/or a combination of some types of necks "Deep in da HEART of Texas" will take him down if he acts too jivy.

"Don't Mess With Texas" is their motto and logo. Since that news story broke that there is a George on the loose deep down in Texas, who is not one of Big [Rev.] George Foreman's boys, I can picture those Texans with their hunting rifles, riding around in their "pick ups" -- that is what they call trucks -- looking for the Floridan George "The stand-your-ground Murderer" of a teenager drinking "sweet tea" and munching on skittles.

No Texas teen better be wearing a hoodie, drinking Dr. Pepper "soda water" and carrying M&Ms. Murdering Georgie Z Man is probably aiming to sweep every state coming west and take out all teens on sweet drinks and candy and walking home in the rain. WTF! OMG! Hehehe! Maybe Georgie Z Man doesn't like rainy nights with teens walking home looking like they are drugged up on sweet drinks and junk foods. Holla!

brownsugar says:

Once you sort out the propaganda, myths, & lies and all agendas... Its actually a simple case. A case of common sense. All wreck-less roads lead back to George Zimmerman. Treyvon wasn't out of place as he walked home from the 7/11. He wasn't on any property belonging to Zimmerman nor was he crawling out of a window after breaking into one of the other residents home. It's a known fact Treyvon was actually closer to his destination than Zimmerman was to his. Zimmerman was actually on his way to the super market when he deemed the teenager another one of these assholes who get away (quoting Zimmerman from his 911 calls-this is why it's such an easy common sense case- we get to use Zimmerman's own words against him). Even if one concedes Treyvon to being the first to let the hands go... That's easily offset by the right to protect and stand his ground (I've seen the crime scene area- sort of boxed in- I have to imagine Treyvon felt trapped in when he decided to go on the offense). Zimmerman instigated this entire tragedy. The facts tell us that. The paper trail on Zimmerman also paints a clear (self) portrait of someone who didn't have a full handle on his aggressive behavior (dudes a passive aggressive).

Wake up ignorant America. The facts are there... You just gotta actually do a bit of research.


South Paul I think you put that as eloquently as it could be said....and it's not over.. there will be more scrutiny...more protests ...more hearing.. more debate and more candle lit vigils.. the dialogue needs to continue.. in the right place, time and forum ....and it will.

Its never been about division or racial inharmony...non-constructive activities..or breaking heads...it's about fixing some the terribly broken aspects of the justice system. And I'm glad to see that worldwide interest in the subject continues to swell across the globe.

Don't get me started on the overblown penitentiary institution that's turned the acquiring and housing of "convicts" into a trillion dollar government funded industry ... while somebody out there has to sell their home just to keep a kid with cancer alive another day or put even put their kids through college...Guys like Zimmerman in addition to our elected officials are chasing the wrong demon.

amayseng says:

What about the baby that was shot in the face?

A baby.

Shot in the face.

A baby.

Where is the protest for him?

Unable to talk or walk or be potty trained, shot in the face.

Ill say it again, a baby shot in the face what the ****?!?!!



This world is going down the drain.

I help people everyday for my job, all day every day I am helping someone medically recover from a stroke, heart attack and joint replacements among others.

Every day I help people heal and get better then I head to the park an help children with sports and I come home and find out a teenager shot a baby in the face.

Are u kidding me?

Treyvon had the choice to hide run or throw a punch. Zimmerman had the choice to follow or flee.

This baby was a baby.
He didn't have a choice or a chance.
Where is the protest for an innocent baby??


Why is the baby's death ignored?

SouthPaul says:

This topic is about George Zimmerman and Treyvon Martin which is why no one in here is talking up the baby who got shot in the face. But to be clear, that too is tragic, and if I were betting man those two young teens will spend a good majority of their lives incarcerated. Let's be patient. See how it unfolds.

Now that we got that out of the way... I am most genuinely curious to know why it is you've referred to TM as a hoodlum. I like sticking to facts, Amayseng, so if possible bring some facts to this conversation that supports your claims that teenager in question was a hoodlum or thug or gang member. And unlike that baby case, there wasn't no robbery taking place between Zimmerman and Treyvon. The only thing TM was packin' ..... Was a pack of Skittles and a can of watermelon flavored juice.

Thank for the kind words, Brown Suga'.

SouthPaul says:

Radam

Not to nitpick Zimmerman but I am thinking if I just got out of jail after being acquited for murder in one of the most high profile sensational cases of this era .... I'd be on my best behavior ...so Im smh at him even getting popped for a driving infraction. Speeding is kinda sorta along the lines of being agressive (this Zebra ain't gonna change his stripes- like you said- only a matter of time before he unravels again).

amayseng says:

TM was a hoodlum because he was suspended from school recently a few times, kicked out of his moms house a few times, selling and smoking weed and attempting to obtain a firearm from my knowledge. Amayseng was a trouble maker at one time as a youth as well.
TM was a trouble maker and was in a few fights also. The kid was posting pics of MJ plants on FB and o him blowing smoke. He was also caught stealing from lockers at school. He was an idiot. However no reason for a man or kid to die.
U prob missed my post about it a few weeks ago where I stated a persons life of 17 Yeats does not define them.
I used Bernard Hopkins as an example, early trouble and a hoodlum and a successful and great person today. A great example of growth, maturity and determination.
I also defined Zimmerman as a coward.

My point about the baby is that look how far humans have fallen for one, babies are shot and two it's not even a big deal no one is even talking about it in the media.

I can't make an exact assumption on Zimmerman and martin because there were no witnesses to explain how it unfolded.

People place zimmerman as looking for trouble.
U have to understand the whole development was on alert. There were numerous burglaries ad people were on edge. Z man saw a person standing around in the yard of one of his neighbors who he knew didn't live there and was recently burglarized.
Not saying following TM was the right thing to do but there was a reason why he was suspicious and I don't agree with racial profiling in this case.
Or how white people are getting shamed for it.
Z man is Hispanic not white.
This is not a problem from the white community. For once.

brownsugar says:

@ Amayseng that's not a thug or hoodlum...TM may be a troubled kid but he was not a hoodlum.. according to your unforgiving christian logic we should just shoot these guys down like dogs in the street since these folks automatically deserve to be judged and executed for living beneath your personal standards .....and or executed by a skiddish block watch patrolmen with issues.... we are dealing with people, not labels and stereo types...
until this is understood there will be people acting out of the same mentality judging who deserves to live or die.... but ultimately murder is murder whether a bum get killed or a presidential candidate... in Gods eyes every life is valuable...I had a daughter who ran away but she got her life back together and lives at an income level that is twice more than I make..She has her own business..is married and is active in the church. Even if Tm had a record as long as his arm(which he didn't) would he have had any less potential?

kidcanvas says:

martin should of kept walking instead of being a big tough guy..thats the bottom line...dosent matter what color they were ,he was a moron that got what he asked for ,trouble . so you fools living in your mamas basement here can move your racist ***'s on tot the next subject

Radam G says:

He did keep walking. The Z-Man kept following him and took him down. The Z-Man is a smooth criminal who learned how to use the law of conning and manipulation. Plain and simple -- my opinion -- he got away with murder. Those punks who shot that baby didn't and will not. Holla!

amayseng says:

@ Amayseng that's not a thug or hoodlum...TM may be a troubled kid but he was not a hoodlum.. according to your unforgiving christian logic we should just shoot these guys down like dogs in the street since these folks automatically deserve to be judged and executed for living beneath your personal standards .....and or executed by a skiddish block watch patrolmen with issues.... we are dealing with people, not labels and stereo types...
until this is understood there will be people acting out of the same mentality judging who deserves to live or die.... but ultimately murder is murder whether a bum get killed or a presidential candidate... in Gods eyes every life is valuable...I had a daughter who ran away but she got her life back together and lives at an income level that is twice more than I make..She has her own business..is married and is active in the church. Even if Tm had a record as long as his arm(which he didn't) would he have had any less potential?


The definition of a hoodlum is one who engages in crime or violence. TM had a history of both.
No where did I state he should have been gunned down or judged for those actions or problems.
Like I said I was a hoodlum at one point in my youth, fights, school suspensions, probation, I even did 6 weeks time for a fight.
My point is racism never played a role.
Especially white vs black like the media made out.
Zman is NOT white.

amayseng says:

I think these two were both troubled or aggressive, a fight broke out and a struggle for the weapon engaged and both felt their lives were on the line.

Bsug no where did I state to judge and gun down, especially a youth.

Young and dumb is the saying for a reason.

Growth and maturity change a lot of people.

Many of us are much better today than when we were teens

SouthPaul says:

In response to those suggesting Treyvon run--- he attempted to. Listen to the 911 call. Zimmerman himself at one point says TM had took off running (all the while goofy *** Zimmerman kept hanging around). For the record: I can actually believe Zimmerman himself felt he was a life and death struggle.. Specially if TM had been trying to take the gun from him (but that's forgivable on TM's part because it's him who was being stalked by an unknown person. Zimmerman and his supporters can continue to pump him up into a neighborhood watch hero but TM had no idea of that information). In also think it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Not only does it sound like him but it fits his trouble making MO. Neither can I be a hundred percent Zimmerman woke up that day wanting to kill a black kid which is why I've stayed away from mentioning color (but there are reports Zimmerman had a hard on for young black males-- his own neighborhood watch comrades told stories about how he'd pursue 'em aggressively). Am also in agreement with Radam. Zimmerman was cunning and manipulative. He's a professional cop caller (well over 50 calls to 911 in less than a years time. Once included calling the cops on a 9 to 11 black kid. Lmfao).

Radam G says:

Let me holla some world knowledge. Georgie Z-Man to the world that is not the United States is white, specifically "A white Hispanic." My first cousin, who's father is Irish American is white, specifically "Irish Pinoy" or a white Filipino. My second, who father is black American is black, specifically "Afro-American Pinoy" or "black Filipino." Prez Obama is white, specifically "A white Kenyan, who was born in Hawaii, making him a "Hawaiian white [Afro] Kenyan." Even in Kenya, where his late father is from, Prez O is called by his father's Swahili tribe and all tribes of Kenyan "That White Kenyan African American President." See in Kenya, a child born of a white parent is white to the Kenyans. In South African, he would be "Colored." In the Middle East and North Africa, you have "White Arabs," who are darker than the movie actor Wesley Snipes.

C'mon, my fellow readers, there are more than AmerKanos in this TSS Universe. We see the world and people a bit different from the way you U.S. mainlanders see it and 'em. U.S. mainlanders' eyes are not clicking with world eyes.

Once again, in Kenya, Prez O is seem as "white." Pakistanis and Indians living in Kenya are consider "white." The Filipinos and Chinese living there in Kenya are considered and thought of as "white."

Once again, my U.S. mainlanders, everybodee and dey momma don't see the world or know it as you do. You will be surprised how a U.S. mainlander's race would change based on where he is in the world.

No pun intended. But the WHOLE, COLLECTED WORLD think that you Yanks are a little crazy, bias, selected and too quick to judge and group people because you dudes are too race-and-ethnicity conscious. Holla!

SouthPaul says:

Good read! The typical average American is a ignorant buffoon. Lacking in culture and any understanding of others, badly! Try having a discussion with those saying ...why can't these black people get over it already!! That person usually has little to no understanding whatsoever of anything outside their circle. Efffin' idiots. Disgusting.

Bernie Campbell says:

Nevermind the Bullsh..! Do a friggun DNA test and the determine! Does the guy have Caucasion Bones? Is his blood the same as common to West Africa? Does he have a replica of those Indians that inhabat South America! Lets keep splitting hairs! Is Johnny Mathis White? Was Wolfman Jack Black? Some friscoes swear that Babe Ruth was Black? Is Nonito Donaire Spanish?

amayseng says:

Good read! The typical average American is a ignorant buffoon. Lacking in culture and any understanding of others, badly! Try having a discussion with those saying ...why can't these black people get over it already!! That person usually has little to no understanding whatsoever of anything outside their circle. Efffin' idiots. Disgusting.


I can relate. My grandmother complained until her late age of 84 how she and my GPa were declined numerous homes in neighborhoods because they were Italian. Resulting in my grandparents havin to settle for inferior neighborhoods and schools.
My uncle is 65 and told me stories of how he was kicked out of homes for being Italian.
One time he was picking a date up for prom whom he had known since kindergarten. Her dad came home and realized be was Italian and kicked him out.
He missed prom.
I can understand how racism is difficult to get over.

Radam G says:

Hehehehehe! Danggit! Thos d@mn friscoes! BTW, YES! "Nonito Donaire" has a mixture of "Spanish," specifically "Castilian Spaniard," as a lot Filipino. Most of us Pinoys are mixed with Spaniard ethnicities of Aragonese, Castilian and Moor. Many of us are also mixed with Milanese and Sicilican. And more of us originally came from the Island off African known as Madagascar.

It is a small world, but with a lot of friscoes. Hehehehe! Holla!

Bernie Campbell says:

I know as a known fact that on Rush Linbaugh's maternal line a some generations back there was a sharecropper named Ezikial Webster who sired his clan! How can anybody explain those Ethopian Jews that came to light a few years ago? The news and history just want to let you know what they want you to know Mac! Evidently some say they are the decendents of Soliman and The Queen of Sheba thousands of years ago! Those friscoes DNA wise might have a higher concentration of the chosen people than Achconazzi Jews! (from Europe)! And they still exist! Do they call themselves black? Jews? Why did that word Negro fall out of grace? Was it worse than black? People can sure sell you a pile of garbage!

Grimm says:

Alot of good posts from sound souls.

I wish I could say that Europe is an exception, that we don't suffer from intolerance and ignorance. But you all know the history here, and unfortunately it repeats itself: more or less a majority of european countries has, at best, a semi-fascist party in their parliament. At worst, they have an explicit nazi-party, like in Greece. A quick-course: in Hungary uniformed fascists roam the streets under the banner of the Jobbik-party, dressing like SA of Germany in the 30's. They attack villages with gypsies and/or jews, harass old men, women and children, and the police ignores the phone calls from the terrified people. The EU has recently expressed harsh criticism vs the hungarian government for adopting laws that forbid journalists from writing articles critical of the government. We don't even need to mention the situation in Russia.

In France, Front National continues to play a dominant role in the domestic political landscape. In Norway, a party highly critical of immigration is prognosed to come into power in the next election, despite the deeds of Breivik who killed almost 80 young socialists visiting a summercamp 2 years ago. And in Sweden, a former nazi-oriented party, now dressed in ties and polished shoes, holds a place in the parliament. Polls say about 10-15% of the people support them. Only a decade ago, the main issue in their program was to repatriate all immigrants that had come to Sweden the last 25 years - no matter who you where. Only two years ago, they made a film with muslim women chasing disabled elderly swedes down the street: propaganda in the style of Goebbels. As we know, kicking people out is only the first step. The next is a well known horror.

There we have it, Europe 2013. Not a day passes by, without me hearing people going on about immigrants, muslims, jews, blacks, and everything else thats not swedish/north european/pale white since at least 200 years back. And being a sucker for Italy (I go there for vacation 2-3 times a year), well, it's not any better. The socioeconomical/political crise of southern Europe is deep and serious, and italians - since long most cynical of their politicians, for good reasons - tend to vote for the quick-fix, which often includes: less immigrants, lesser taxes, more freedom to send even more junk with half-naked girls on prime time-TV to keep the people doped, and a touch of nationalistic frenzy.

Dark days lie ahead of us. And at the same time, I recently saw the documentary "This Divided State" about the controversy on Michael Moores visit to Utah Valley State College. At first, I was perplexed with the intolerance from the conservatives in the community. Then, I was impressed with the willingness from the students to stand up for their beliefs - no matter which side they chose - as well as their eloquence. I guess there is hope for America. I guess there is always hope, as long as silence isn't the sound that ultimately wins. Keep up the good fight.

Bernie Campbell says:

Mr. Grimm, Whats your vested interest in this? You tend to your garden, Ill tend to mine! If you want advise on how to grow my fisythias. Ill tell you free of charge! It wouldn't be right to charge! If I was a friggun dictator, Id declare martial law on all imperialistic idiots! That includes myoir and yourself! 16 hours of SpongeBob Squarepants and 8 hrs sleep!

Radam G says:

Dang! What da double fudge is up with dat friscoe Ariel Castro? His trifling arse got life plus a 1,000 years. This scummy monster claims not to be a monster. WTF! Whatever! But when his arse dies, for the next thousand years he will still be under arrest. So if the authorities of this dimension of life find his arse in another dimension, they will go after him and put his arse back in the can for the thousand years. WTF! That is what this sexual predator gets.

The authorities that be should cut off AC's sexual organs. Just my opinion. A prisioner will evenually get near him and do it. I wouldn't be surprised if a wayward prision guard put him down. Just saying! Holla!

SouthPaul says:

I'm just curious what asylum Bernie Campbell escaped from.

Bernie Campbell says:

Is there any innocent people that go to jail? How bout Mandella? Why are all the welterweights ducking Chop Chop Corley at this stage of the game?

the Roast says:

I'm just curious what asylum Bernie Campbell escaped from.


I've been wondering that too. Sometimes the dude is funny in a weird way but recently I think he's just off his meds...

Carmine Cas says:

Lol Bernie is quite the character, hopefully it wasn't the asylum close to me. I agree he's a monster who deserves to get his sh*t cut off. Excellent points Grimm, racism is everywhere and I'm sure a lot of us experienced it, I know I have especially after 9/11

Radam G says:

But it all about sucking it up and moving on. If you stand around and moan and mourn, the racist nutcases win. Do what you do and get down, and one by one the scumbags remain the collected clown. No tears for a racist clown. In their own sickness let 'em drown. Holla!

Bernie Campbell says:

Whatche you talkin bout Willis? I mean Carmine? What you've got here is a failure to communicate! If I didn't know better, I would assume you all are not that educated. Carmine, Southpaul, Roast? I should get my sh.. cut off? boy that's pack mentality! You guys sound like this may be a way of life with you, Old ladys, homeless bums, Autistic types that wont fight back! Just because they arnt a part of the mainstream and it may rock your world cause you have to admit your ignorance! Why do you friscoes enjoy boxing cause maybe you hide behind it like most do! Asylum? What the fuh do you know about those poor people, Whaddya think its a fcn joke! You wear your Halloweene masks and try to scare people with your funny faces! Get off of your soap box and try to convince youre really concerned about injustice! Pack mentality caused cataclysm 2000 years ago, Pack Mentality caused Lynchings 60 years ago! You want to throw stones and condemn Zimmerman? I presume "he deserves his sh.. cut off? At least the guy had the onions to work his stuff alone! Not like you gang bangers waiting your turn on a victim! No guts, no courage! Nobody knows what went down, people hear words but they cant comprehend! I presume you clowns are put up by some publishing entity to make the young americans look and sound assanine! but besides all that, I wus just plaing with ya'll! I think that Delvin rodriguez is gonna send Miguel Cotto into retirement!

Radam G says:

No matter what anyone thinks, Georgie Z Man is still armed and dangerous and paranoid and foolish and a smooth, sneaky criminal. He will kill again in a year or two, if not in a few months or days. Dude is pathological. He cannot help himself to stay clear and clean.

One week he is superman saving a family of four from a SUV turnover. And the next week, he is superman car speeding deep in the heart of Texas. Next week, he will probably be superman rescuing a family from some gangbangers in Los Angeles adjacent to where O.J. Simpson and Robert Blake kill their wives and RG -- Ron Goldman -- not me. Hehehe! I just hope that Z Man's wife doesn't come to Cali with him. He may give her the Simpson-Blake wifey treatment. And a Cali jury will find him innocent.

Z-Man can skips all the above and go to Sin City and leave the weapon that he murdered a sweet-drink-and-skittles carrying kid with in his (Z Man's) hotel room. A cleaning woman might get the gun, and Z Man will take it back, then join O.J. Simpson in jail for stealing his own syet. Hahaha!

Now that will be some oddity jive of poetic justice of "The threatre of the unexpected." And in jail, Z Man and O.J. can have combat match. Holla!

SouthPaul says:

Lmfao@that post. Classic Radam. Nicely done (and likely plenty of truthful Zimmerman predictions).

Bernie Campbell says:

Hey Yo, For all you illiterates Ill do a replay! Malcom X: A house divided by itself cant stand! And that's true for a country as well as a barn!

Radam G says:

WOW! It is ON like a bad SONG! I see that Z-Man's soon-to-be-ex-wife said that "it is doubt in [her mind] now that" "George" Zimmerman "MURDERED" the skipping-home-skittles-and-sweet-drink-carry kid.

Every week of two on the mainland U.S.A., it is HOT with news about da murderous-and-got-away-with-it Z-Man. The BIG D is closing in on him. He will soon be dirt napping. Holla!

Radam G says:

I thought that the prisoners would get Ariel Castro, but some negligent prison guards let him hang himself. WOW! Karma is often like life -- A BYTCH! Then you die. Bye-bye, AC. You still have 999 years and 240 days to serve in your after-this life. Holla!

amayseng says:

WOW! It is ON like a bad SONG! I see that Z-Man's soon-to-be-ex-wife said that "it is doubt in [her mind] now that" "George" Zimmerman "MURDERED" the skipping-home-skittles-and-sweet-drink-carry kid.

Every week of two on the mainland U.S.A., it is HOT with news about da murderous-and-got-away-with-it Z-Man. The BIG D is closing in on him. He will soon be dirt napping. Holla!


zimmerman has to be a hoax, a paid gov employee to take the attention off of the governments failings...

how else can you explain this guy popping up so much?

its almost too convenient...


check out my dude, "therealbill1" on youtube.... dude is full of all kinds of knowledge

amayseng says:

I thought that the prisoners would get Ariel Castro, but some negligent prison guards let him hang himself. WOW! Karma is often like life -- A BYTCH! Then you die. Bye-bye, AC. You still have 999 years and 240 days to serve in your after-this life. Holla!


even the jails workers/inmates have the concious/ability to weed out even the most evil of people


Castro is serving a life sentence in HELL

The Shadow says:

Alot of good posts from sound souls.

I wish I could say that Europe is an exception, that we don't suffer from intolerance and ignorance. But you all know the history here, and unfortunately it repeats itself: more or less a majority of european countries has, at best, a semi-fascist party in their parliament. At worst, they have an explicit nazi-party, like in Greece. A quick-course: in Hungary uniformed fascists roam the streets under the banner of the Jobbik-party, dressing like SA of Germany in the 30's. They attack villages with gypsies and/or jews, harass old men, women and children, and the police ignores the phone calls from the terrified people. The EU has recently expressed harsh criticism vs the hungarian government for adopting laws that forbid journalists from writing articles critical of the government. We don't even need to mention the situation in Russia.

In France, Front National continues to play a dominant role in the domestic political landscape. In Norway, a party highly critical of immigration is prognosed to come into power in the next election, despite the deeds of Breivik who killed almost 80 young socialists visiting a summercamp 2 years ago. And in Sweden, a former nazi-oriented party, now dressed in ties and polished shoes, holds a place in the parliament. Polls say about 10-15% of the people support them. Only a decade ago, the main issue in their program was to repatriate all immigrants that had come to Sweden the last 25 years - no matter who you where. Only two years ago, they made a film with muslim women chasing disabled elderly swedes down the street: propaganda in the style of Goebbels. As we know, kicking people out is only the first step. The next is a well known horror.

There we have it, Europe 2013. Not a day passes by, without me hearing people going on about immigrants, muslims, jews, blacks, and everything else thats not swedish/north european/pale white since at least 200 years back. And being a sucker for Italy (I go there for vacation 2-3 times a year), well, it's not any better. The socioeconomical/political crise of southern Europe is deep and serious, and italians - since long most cynical of their politicians, for good reasons - tend to vote for the quick-fix, which often includes: less immigrants, lesser taxes, more freedom to send even more junk with half-naked girls on prime time-TV to keep the people doped, and a touch of nationalistic frenzy.

Dark days lie ahead of us. And at the same time, I recently saw the documentary "This Divided State" about the controversy on Michael Moores visit to Utah Valley State College. At first, I was perplexed with the intolerance from the conservatives in the community. Then, I was impressed with the willingness from the students to stand up for their beliefs - no matter which side they chose - as well as their eloquence. I guess there is hope for America. I guess there is always hope, as long as silence isn't the sound that ultimately wins. Keep up the good fight.


Just now seeing this comment. You're right. I've experienced racism in Europe on the level of black Americans in the early 1900s.

And I've been to Italy many times also -- same sh*t but on a different kind.

As part of my government research, I did a study at a Big Four accounting firm. Turns out they would make the crudest jokes about the few black workers present, throw bananas at them and mock them at every turn.

My father owned a night club in of the biggest cities. They would CONSTANTLY mess with me AND my local superstar nephew just because. One bartender even dismissed me outright, refusing to serve me.

I went straight home and dropped dime, got her little azz fired. My nephew had to get another bouncer fired.

When you have the audacity to call the boss' son and grandson nig*er, something is wrong.

For that reason, I refuse to conform. I got to business meetings suited up but I flash my long dreads, I have my lip pierced and you know what? When you're in a position of contextual power, it doesn't make a damn difference anyway.

My last job two job interviews before doing my own thing were with McKinsey & Co. and HK Strategies and guess what -- it didn't matter. Real recognize real.

But Grimm is right. The xonophobia is no joke, although I consider Sweden one of the more progressive European states.

Grimm says:

Thank you, Shadow. For the record, I started writing a new post on the subject, stopped at about 1000 words and realized I was about to write our boxing peers to the brink of death. You pushed my button, in a positive sence.

Sad to hear about your experiences. At the same time: the s--t we go through are what makes us grow into better and stronger individuals. Let d--kheads be d--kheads. It's their loss.

Radam G says:

Ditto, Grimm! Holla!

spit bucket says:

Alot of good posts from sound souls.

I wish I could say that Europe is an exception, that we don't suffer from intolerance and ignorance. But you all know the history here, and unfortunately it repeats itself: more or less a majority of european countries has, at best, a semi-fascist party in their parliament. At worst, they have an explicit nazi-party, like in Greece. A quick-course: in Hungary uniformed fascists roam the streets under the banner of the Jobbik-party, dressing like SA of Germany in the 30's. They attack villages with gypsies and/or jews, harass old men, women and children, and the police ignores the phone calls from the terrified people. The EU has recently expressed harsh criticism vs the hungarian government for adopting laws that forbid journalists from writing articles critical of the government. We don't even need to mention the situation in Russia.

In France, Front National continues to play a dominant role in the domestic political landscape. In Norway, a party highly critical of immigration is prognosed to come into power in the next election, despite the deeds of Breivik who killed almost 80 young socialists visiting a summercamp 2 years ago. And in Sweden, a former nazi-oriented party, now dressed in ties and polished shoes, holds a place in the parliament. Polls say about 10-15% of the people support them. Only a decade ago, the main issue in their program was to repatriate all immigrants that had come to Sweden the last 25 years - no matter who you where. Only two years ago, they made a film with muslim women chasing disabled elderly swedes down the street: propaganda in the style of Goebbels. As we know, kicking people out is only the first step. The next is a well known horror.

There we have it, Europe 2013. Not a day passes by, without me hearing people going on about immigrants, muslims, jews, blacks, and everything else thats not swedish/north european/pale white since at least 200 years back. And being a sucker for Italy (I go there for vacation 2-3 times a year), well, it's not any better. The socioeconomical/political crise of southern Europe is deep and serious, and italians - since long most cynical of their politicians, for good reasons - tend to vote for the quick-fix, which often includes: less immigrants, lesser taxes, more freedom to send even more junk with half-naked girls on prime time-TV to keep the people doped, and a touch of nationalistic frenzy.

Dark days lie ahead of us. And at the same time, I recently saw the documentary "This Divided State" about the controversy on Michael Moores visit to Utah Valley State College. At first, I was perplexed with the intolerance from the conservatives in the community. Then, I was impressed with the willingness from the students to stand up for their beliefs - no matter which side they chose - as well as their eloquence. I guess there is hope for America. I guess there is always hope, as long as silence isn't the sound that ultimately wins. Keep up the good fight.


Great Post, Grimm

spit bucket says:

Last week the medical examiner announced that according to their findings, there is no possibility that Travon Martin could have been on top of Zimmerman at the time the fatal shot was fired. The prosecution never presented this evidence... this one bit of information from the M.E. could have torpedoed the defense's entire case. I believe Zimmerman should be in prison for murder... A sorry pathetic excuse of a man, a very stupid and disturbed man. He is a danger to society. Probably impossible, but I hope Trayvon's family somehow eventually finds some lasting peace after this horrid moment in the American judicial process. The US has become so corrupt in the courts and in its financial institutions, it doesn't feel like America to me anymore and I've been around awhile. I agree with Deep Water in that if Zimmerman knew how to fight, perhaps he would have had the confidence/courage to approach Travon Martin without need of a gun. of course, if he were intelligent and/or wise, the entire incident would never have played out as it tragically did.

spit bucket says:

No matter what anyone thinks, Georgie Z Man is still armed and dangerous and paranoid and foolish and a smooth, sneaky criminal. He will kill again in a year or two, if not in a few months or days. Dude is pathological. He cannot help himself to stay clear and clean.

One week he is superman saving a family of four from a SUV turnover. And the next week, he is superman car speeding deep in the heart of Texas. Next week, he will probably be superman rescuing a family from some gangbangers in Los Angeles adjacent to where O.J. Simpson and Robert Blake kill their wives and RG -- Ron Goldman -- not me. Hehehe! I just hope that Z Man's wife doesn't come to Cali with him. He may give her the Simpson-Blake wifey treatment. And a Cali jury will find him innocent.

Z-Man can skips all the above and go to Sin City and leave the weapon that he murdered a sweet-drink-and-skittles carrying kid with in his (Z Man's) hotel room. A cleaning woman might get the gun, and Z Man will take it back, then join O.J. Simpson in jail for stealing his own syet. Hahaha!

Now that will be some oddity jive of poetic justice of "The threatre of the unexpected." And in jail, Z Man and O.J. can have a combat match. Holla!

OJ would kick his *** - an athlete vs a puff ball with no courage. Mismatch.

amayseng says:

Last week the medical examiner announced that according to their findings, there is no possibility that Travon Martin could have been on top of Zimmerman at the time the fatal shot was fired. The prosecution never presented this evidence... this one bit of information from the M.E. could have torpedoed the defense's entire case. I believe Zimmerman should be in prison for murder... A sorry pathetic excuse of a man, a very stupid and disturbed man. He is a danger to society. Probably impossible, but I hope Trayvon's family somehow eventually finds some lasting peace after this horrid moment in the American judicial process. The US has become so corrupt in the courts and in its financial institutions, it doesn't feel like America to me anymore and I've been around awhile. I agree with Deep Water in that if Zimmerman knew how to fight, perhaps he would have had the confidence/courage to approach Travon Martin without need of a gun. of course, if he were intelligent and/or wise, the entire incident would never have played out as it tragically did.


where did you read that?

the last i remember is that there were two witnesses pointing out TM on top, the second was a minor who
was kept off the stand...

not that i know, only God knows, but this case is continued to be thrown out there to divide america.

brownsugar says:

where did you read that?

the last i remember is that there were two witnesses pointing out TM on top, the second was a minor who
was kept off the stand...

not that i know, only God knows, but this case is continued to be thrown out there to divide america.


I believe it. The press was never on a conspiratorial mission to divide america or evoke "Helter Skelter". (Where is everybody going to live and work?)....The press just wants to get as many hits on its websites as possible......Its about a corrupt legal system that wanted Zim off the hook. At least one of the so called eyewitnesses has reversed her story although I doubt much becomes of the concealed info.

amayseng says:

I believe it. The press was never on a conspiratorial mission to divide america or evoke "Helter Skelter". (Where is everybody going to live and work?)....The press just wants to get as many hits on its websites as possible......Its about a corrupt legal system that wanted Zim off the hook. At least one of the so called eyewitnesses has reversed her story although I doubt much becomes of the concealed info.


the fact that witnesses are changing their story is disturbing to say the least. either way, they either lied or are lying now, disturbing.

self defense or not a teen lost his life and that is never a good ending for anyone.

Zman needs to go away.

however, like you said, there is no such thing as bad press, press is press and thats what the media does

Radam G says:

It should not be disturbing, A-Seng. First of all, eyewitness report is generally wrong, subjective and bias a large amount of the time, say experts. The slightest thing -- smell, color, a person's ethnicity, environment, a chance-to-make money, fame or even the mood at the time of witnessing a crime throws an eyewitness into a whirlwind of bulljiving. This is why forensic science proves an eyewitness inflating da haps or deflating it more than half of the time.

Like I mentioned -- and I will go out on my shield -- Z-Man bumped his own darn noggin on the sidewalk and injuried it when he was taking the kid down in a passive jiu jitsu self-offensive move, in which his pulled the kid down to the ground on top of him. Holla!

The Shadow says:

It should not be disturbing, A-Seng. First of all, eyewitness report is generally wrong, subjective and bias a large amount of the time, say experts. The slightest thing -- smell, color, a person's ethnicity, environment, a chance-to-make money, fame or even the mood at the time of witnessing a crime throws an eyewitness into a whirlwind of bulljiving. This is why forensic science proves an eyewitness inflating da haps or deflating it more than half of the time.

Like I mentioned -- and I will go out on my shield -- Z-Man bumped his own darn noggin on the sidewalk and injuried it when he was taking the kid down in a passive jiu jitsu self-offensive move, in which his pulled the kid down to the ground on top of him. Holla!


Did you really use this technique to kick arse when you were a teenager?

amayseng says:

It should not be disturbing, A-Seng. First of all, eyewitness report is generally wrong, subjective and bias a large amount of the time, say experts. The slightest thing -- smell, color, a person's ethnicity, environment, a chance-to-make money, fame or even the mood at the time of witnessing a crime throws an eyewitness into a whirlwind of bulljiving. This is why forensic science proves an eyewitness inflating da haps or deflating it more than half of the time.

Like I mentioned -- and I will go out on my shield -- Z-Man bumped his own darn noggin on the sidewalk and injuried it when he was taking the kid down in a passive jiu jitsu self-offensive move, in which his pulled the kid down to the ground on top of him. Holla!


i gotcha, either way i am disturbed that people dont just honestly report what they see.

another disturbing fact, the ending of a death could perhaps have been avoided, as there were numerous

eye witnesses on the phone with 911, others among the situation who could hear someone yelling for help

or an altercations and NOT ONE person went out to stop or help the altercation.

this situation is disturbing in general on so many levels...


it is an example of the worst in people, in many ways...

Radam G says:

@The Shadow, I was a crazy young teen in San Diego U-S-A. This is why I was shipped off to boarding school in Hong Kong and missed the 199* O-games. Those HK nuns were Kung-Fu FIGHTING! Their fists were as fast as lightning! Their elbows, knees and feet were upside my noggin, straight-up my arse like a lightning bolt.

They beat me from head to toe and straightened me out. I went out on my shield, though. I was KTFO umpteen times before I learned that there is no Child Protected Services in an Asian Jesuit boarding school. Hehehe! Holla!

amayseng says:

They beat me from head to toe and straightened me out. I went out on my shield, though. I was KTFO umpteen times before I learned that there is no Child Protected Services in an Asian Jesuit boarding school. Hehehe! Holla!


i love these stories!

haha

they never get old

amayseng says:

They beat me from head to toe and straightened me out. I went out on my shield, though. I was KTFO umpteen times before I learned that there is no Child Protected Services in an Asian Jesuit boarding school. Hehehe! Holla!


i love these stories!

haha

they never get old

The Good Doctor says:

Last week the medical examiner announced that according to their findings, there is no possibility that Travon Martin could have been on top of Zimmerman at the time the fatal shot was fired. The prosecution never presented this evidence... this one bit of information from the M.E. could have torpedoed the defense's entire case. I believe Zimmerman should be in prison for murder... A sorry pathetic excuse of a man, a very stupid and disturbed man. He is a danger to society. Probably impossible, but I hope Trayvon's family somehow eventually finds some lasting peace after this horrid moment in the American judicial process. The US has become so corrupt in the courts and in its financial institutions, it doesn't feel like America to me anymore and I've been around awhile. I agree with Deep Water in that if Zimmerman knew how to fight, perhaps he would have had the confidence/courage to approach Travon Martin without need of a gun. of course, if he were intelligent and/or wise, the entire incident would never have played out as it tragically did.


This case was disturbing to me on so many levels that I rarely even talk about it but in TSS universe t99% of the people are reasonable so I feel like I can talk about it without any real restriction. This case especially hits home to me because I just had a little one over 18 months ago and I could not imagine me out living him.

I think the quote above speaks to where the real crime was in this case. THE PROSECUTION. The judicial system didn't fail, they did. I have several friends in law who told me six months before the trial happened, there was no way Zimmerman was going down and it would not be race that got him off(Mind you one is black, two are white, 2 hispanic). One of the female lawyers that told me this said that any prosecution that goes to trial for murder with the following:

No credible witnesses
Sketchy phone recordings
A considerable amount of time between charge and commitment of action
Conflicting forensic evidence

is an complete bonafide IDIOT. She also says that murder needs to be a "slam dunk" charge. She also explained to me that there should have been a charge of manslaughter, maybe even involuntary. She said then, all you really have to do is prove he pulled the trigger and they could have gotten him for 8-10 years easy. However, the prosecution caved into public pressure (especially from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who did not understand law in this case), thought they could have their Cochran moment and become big stars and it blew up in their face. In addition, these bafoons lied on court documents and sent a witness to the stand that they did not prep or advise. They blew it in glorious fashion.

I try to find lessons out all things good and bad in life. I have found two from this whole thing and I hope you guys heed this:

-People need to understand basic law. Not just minorities but everybody.

-Court is never about right or wrong, it is about what you can prove.

amayseng says:

I found it quite disturbing that instead of a concern over the death of yet another teen, whether black, white, yellow, green or blue, the press along with sharpton and Jackson made it immediately out to be a racist white guy vs a black teen.

When in fact Zman is not a "white" guy and it was NOT a case of racism of black and white.

When the initial reaction is the RACE card then you know your country is in trouble no matter the subject.

This case in every way is an example of the WORST of human beings.

I am embarrassed by the handling of it.

Every situation.

From TM's parents being inadequate to Zman pulling a weapon to firing it , the media injustice to the prosecution.

All the way up the line everything is a tragedy.

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