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ARUM: "As Far As I'm Concerned, Showtime Doesn't Exist"

BY Michael Woods ON March 18, 2013
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CelebsAtDonaireVargas,bob arum, top rank, showtimePromoter Bob Arum weighed in with TSS about the shocker shot across the bow sent by HBO, the news that HBO would not for the foreseeable future buy any fights put together by Golden Boy.

"You have to understand that HBO has their own reasons for doing business with any outside entity, and why or why not they've elected to do I don't know. It's just speculation on my part but I'm happy we're a major supplier to HBO and if we deliver fights like last Saturday's Bradley-Provodnikov fight, we'll continue to be a major supplier. I can't shed any light on the specifics, I don't know the reason. But HBO making an announcement like this is very, very significant. I don't remember anything like this happening. I do remember companies refusing to do business with specific entities but..."

So, what will the ramifications be for the fans? "I don't think there will be any ramifications for the fans," said Arum (seen above with Manny Pacquiao and Juan Ma Lopez in 2010, by Hogan Photos), before switching gears. "I think fans will get a better product on HBO than they have been getting. They won't be saddled with a lot of fights that make no sense. I'm sure HBO will have great, compelling fights and I'm sure Showtime will have some."

So, is the door shut on Top Rank from bringing product to Showtime?

"To be very honest nobody other than Golden Boy has provided fights to Showtime (recently)," Arum said. "As far as I'm concerned Showtime does not exist. We haven't done (a promotion) with Showtime since I think Salido-Juanma two year ago. It's not for lack of trying, they won't even take our calls or anybody elses."

Note: I alerted Showtime about Arum's comments and they chose not to comment.

Comment on this article

SouthPaul says:

Top Rank's fate was sealed the moment Stephen Espinoza was hired by Showtime. How sweet of a deal it turned out to be for Golden Boy Promotions to now have their ace attorney in charge of a major boxing distributor, and the same legal representative/consultant they used to battle Top Rank in court. I ain't feeling too sorry for Ol' Bob, not at all, but it's pretty obvious he and his company would have little to no options at Showtime under those circumstances .

Radam G says:

Wow! Da BobFather has gotten HBO the hook up to markets in Macau, Abu Dhabi and Singapore that will bring in five times the amount of moolah its been pulling in from stateside events.

Da BobFather and HBO have simply given GBP and ShowTime paper, and are taking glittering gold and the real bling-bling pay, babee! It looks like a money T-K-O! And Big Money O, GBP and ShowTime have been KTFO. Holla!

brownsugar says:

Personally I don't watch promoters,.. I watch the fighters. if the fights take yet another dip in quality, and quantity. I'll cut cable altogether... with HBO being the first to go and Showtime second. I had planned on cutting my cable bill in january but the promise of good fights kept me glued to tube up till now....(of course I must see Guerrero vs Mayweather)

But I'll let the fanboys argue over who the best promoter is..
The argument is about as silly as the PS3 vs the XBOX wars that have thrived on the gaming sites for years. or the Ford vs Chevy debates in the 60's and 70's.

fans get caught up in the business side where they have no control over the decisions made and receive no revenue for soliciting their chosens' promoters propoganda ... while the Promoters thrive on the division they create between the fans of both providers.. it's so silly.

The division between the two largest promoters is just plain silly... it dimishes the amount of blockbuster fights we can watch. while alienating the casual fan even more. Boxing fans should vote with their cable dollars if they aren't being served.

stormcentre says:

The Espinoza influence and how it favours GB is interesting though. I mean in all reasonable probability, Jesus Christ probably couldn't have arranged a better chain of circumstances for Oscar

amayseng says:

Amen brownsugar.

deepwater says:

Wow! Da BobFather has gotten HBO the hook up to markets in Macau, Abu Dhabi and Singapore that will bring in five times the amount of moolah its been pulling in from stateside events.

Da BobFather and HBO have simply given GBP and ShowTime paper, and are taking glittering gold and the real bling-bling pay, babee! It looks like a money T-K-O! And Big Money O, GBP and ShowTime have been KTFO. Holla!


Arum and his son Sheldon adelson know the USA is in economic turmoil. Oh yeah cash in all your savings accounts and 401k and 403b 's now ! It is starting in a small euro country and will spread like dominoes. Governments are now seizing bank accounts and skimming 10 % . Cyprus is the beginning. You are earning nothing in these accounts bring your cash home before it is seized. Arum plays chess that why is in the next booming market. I'm surprised the Swiss banker didn't foresee this but then again the Swiss are dealing with money laundering operations and missed the ball

brownsugar says:

Multi billionaires are dumping US stock in droves... and since the dollar is based on oil.. and the oil reserve is not what it claims to be , an energy crisis is looming which will cascade into a water crisis... between 2014 and 2015 the US will be in the most catastrophic financial period it has ever known..

I usually don't comment off anyone's political posts.. but this thing is starting to get too big to ignore.. I've been doing the research for a couple of month and am convinced it's no hoax. The pyramid of US economy is set to crash in a major way... hopefully the bank will go first and lose my credit records.

SouthPaul says:

You could always skip the PPV ...catch the replay the following weekend ..... Then use the 60.00 to 70.00 to continue to subscribe to both boxing networks. Why waste all that cash on what's likely going to be a straight forward win for the obvious fighter? No offense meant, but following one fighter to one network, and scrapping the other is what fanboys are truly made of, my friend...


Personally I don't watch promoters,.. I watch the fighters. if the fights take yet another dip in quality, and quantity. I'll cut cable altogether... with HBO being the first to go and Showtime second. I had planned on cutting my cable bill in january but the promise of good fights kept me glued to tube up till now....(of course I must see Guerrero vs Mayweather)

But I'll let the fanboys argue over who the best promoter is..
The argument is about as silly as the PS3 vs the XBOX wars that have thrived on the gaming sites for years. or the Ford vs Chevy debates in the 60's and 70's.

fans get caught up in the business side where they have no control over the decisions made and receive no revenue for soliciting their chosens' promoters propoganda ... while the Promoters thrive on the division they create between the fans of both providers.. it's so silly.

The division between the two largest promoters is just plain silly... it dimishes the amount of blockbuster fights we can watch. while alienating the casual fan even more. Boxing fans should vote with their cable dollars if they aren't being served.

brownsugar says:

Don't take my comments out of context SP ....I'm following the fighter of my choosing.. not signing an allegiance to GB or Arum. Their prosperity is not what I'm rooting for when I'm watching a fight.

deepwater says:

Multi billionaires are dumping US stock in droves... and since the dollar is based on oil.. and the oil reserve is not what it claims to be , an energy crisis is looming which will cascade into a water crisis... between 2014 and 2015 the US will be in the most catastrophic financial period it has ever known..

I usually don't comment off anyone's political posts.. but this thing is starting to get too big to ignore.. I've been doing the research for a couple of month and am convinced it's no hoax. The pyramid of US economy is set to crash in a major way... hopefully the bank will go first and lose my credit records.


welcome to the ballgame BS. get your cash in hand asap and convert federal reserve notes into anything but us dollars.its gonna get rough.

brownsugar says:

For sure Deep

SouthPaul says:

Not my intention to take your words out of context but certainly wanted to address the fanboy comment. Easily construed as talking about me or a few other posters on this very forum. Neither am I rooting for their prosperity nor am I signing up for any sort of allegiance. Hell, it's been several years since I've even outright ordered a PPV card from either promotional company. I subscribe to both (Showtime and HBO) the regular programming because at one time or another they'll both air interesting fight cards. A fan of boxing, not just a boxer or his management or his promotional company. I call it as I see it.... On any given day will either compliment of criticize those who are out of line.

For example ...some people think Al Haymon is a full on crook.... Whereas I can't get fully on board with all that. Even if he's conspiring to push Top Rank out of the picture ....that ain't warranting comparing him to notorious crooks like Al Capone (nothing personal, Radam, just think that comparison is totally outlandish ). Anyhow, my suggestion stands. Save your 70.00 .... Divide it up over the course of several months ...now you cover the additional cost for both networks on your monthly cable bill. You not get to see Floyd vs Guerrero (albeit a week later) but you'll continue to have both options with a variety of fight cards.


Don't take my comments out of context SP ....I'm following the fighter of my choosing.. not signing an allegiance to GB or Arum. Their prosperity is not what I'm rooting for when I'm watching a fight.

brownsugar says:

Well thanks for clarifying your position SP.
And for the thrift tips.. however one of the most satisfying things I have in life is having the ability to squander cash the way I see fit. (In the short term anyway)
But you need not be offended at my post because you were not the intended audience.
Thanks again for reading and commenting.

SouthPaul says:

No worries, glad we clarified our thoughts. Good content coming off this message board. Enjoyable !

stormcentre says:

Multi billionaires are dumping US stock in droves... and since the dollar is based on oil.. and the oil reserve is not what it claims to be , an energy crisis is looming which will cascade into a water crisis... between 2014 and 2015 the US will be in the most catastrophic financial period it has ever known..

I usually don't comment off anyone's political posts.. but this thing is starting to get too big to ignore.. I've been doing the research for a couple of month and am convinced it's no hoax. The pyramid of US economy is set to crash in a major way... hopefully the bank will go first and lose my credit records.



BrownSugar said = "But this thing is starting to get too big to ignore".

Agreed BS. It is big. Very big.

But then what can anyone expect when the entire crisis was literally created by those charged to ensure it would never happen (congress) and driven from Wall St suits and the likes, whom themselves were amazingly controlling banks, mortgage lending and other equally (if not more) disgraceful financial institutions that were virtually without principles?

Regulation was and is as much of a joke as the federal mortgage taskforce and New York attorney general department's own highly questionable actions and claims – including those alluding to how they - within both waves of the entire GFC crisis - apparently couldn't find a single person or “suit” to prosecute and hold responsible for the entire mess.

Think about that.

With all the misrepresented mortgages, risks and all the packaged up mortgage backed securities that were literally hyped up to the hilt; the federal mortgage taskforce and also the New York attorney general department's offices couldn’t find a perpetrator to hand their top level fraud charges on. It’s a remarkable consideration; that completely justifies your view that this thing is too big to ignore.

Hell, even with those (millions of) bundled securities that had an unusually high percentage of foreclosed and impossible-to-service-mortgages neatly blended in with all the other “normally” risky mortgages that themselves were obviously only written to feed the insatiable hunger of the front end of the collateralized debt obligation securitization machine; no meaningful charges were prosecuted by the above-mentioned departments.

So it’s a crime that impacted the world for which, seemingly, no one is responsible for; even though the evidence of that crime is as widespread and prevalent as the crime’s impact.

Still, the federal mortgage taskforce and also the New York attorney general department's offices couldn’t find the guilty parties or lay the big charges.

Sure there were (in the scheme of things) some lesser charges brought forward in relation to some of the dishonest perpetrators; but when all was said and done, that was really small-fry and/or lip-service stuff. Nothing more than pitiful actions designed to make it appear that Obamah’s GFC-fraud-related (and other hyped) legislation was operationally working and representative of something more than window dressing - when the fact was that it really wasn’t.

Meanwhile, millions of USA (and other countries’) home owners and debtors received a big kick in the belly. As painful as it was, it was but a small indicator of the shape of things to come, when they found out the hard way that they had inherited more than a magical mortgage, kind creditor and dream home; by welcoming in the door to door mortgage salesman.

No doubt the joy of finally being able to own a new home was soon replaced with sheer disbelief at about the same time that these mortgage holders were stunningly introduced to what the financial and share markets are really all about; making money regardless of what and who suffers. And for the most part of it all there really was no way that the majority of the mortgage owners could really have seen any of it coming; which was probably one reason why they were chosen. No sooner were they introduced to and getting their head around a suite of the stock-market, banking and financial institution’s best home-grown, slippery and complex problems that, amongst many things, defined their financial position as actually being worse than when they signed the mortgage documents; than they were confronted by the thought that they could potentially be in debt for the rest of their lives over a worthless property. And if that wasn’t enough, they still had to get their head around the fact that the entire scam was most likely largely the creation of uncontrolled avarice and autocracy that had flourished within a megalomaniac industry, that was, insanely;

a) Not only left to regulate itself (as if that were not bad enough).

b) But also an industry that somehow came to be “guided” by another similarly “principled” industry that was itself in such dire need of meaningful policies and a working and transparent an ethics committee; that it actually did all it could to prevent any attempt to implement one - for fear of the scale of embarrassment and resulting reform.

If only a unit price could have been placed on the market’s incompetence, shame (or lack thereof) and its culpability in relation to the GFC.

The stock would literally go through the roof and we all would have been rich forever!

If there ever were a fraternity that was so obviously fuelled by turbulence escaping from it participant’s under garments; the stock-market must surely be it. Yet here it was left to run global economics; driven only by sales goals and effectively without a morale, clue or concern

Sure there’s some truth out there in the market; sometimes.

But finding it and regularly profiting from it, is the tricky part. It’s much easier to make the dollars by hyping the stock and riding that wave.

Or gambling.

And such was the genius of USA financial regulation that no-one charged with the responsibility to regulate, safeguard, or even notice (let alone act); thought it was odd that this was going on.

Hmmm; stock-brokers that were – effectively – directing mortgage brokers on how best to write loans; so the loans could in turn be bundled up into securities and then sold off as mortgage backed - or other – securities, to institutional, corporate and other secondary market investors.

Nope, that sounds all above board doesn’t it?

Seriously though, I still find it astonishing that none of this raised the right eyebrows.

I mean, if the fact that this type of quasi-financial activity, which was;

a) Effectively a hybrid combination of some of the most “interesting”, seedy and lawless business processes that the stock-market and mortgage broking business themselves both had to offer.

b) Obviously designed to shift loan risk from the mortgage originator across to the very agencies that bundled the mortgages up into securities; rather than to the investors who ultimately purchase the securities

Didn’t raise the right person’s (or the regulator’s) eyebrows . . . .

Then the fact that that activity basically constituted having salespersons from one industry (the stock-market; whom already had its fair share of “interesting” characteristics and policies) “guiding” salespersons from another dodgy industry (lending and mortgage institutions; whom everyone knew was capable of similar, if not worse conduct than the share-market) on how best to manage funds related to;

a) The most important investment most families will ever make.

b) Debtors that actually couldn’t afford the very same debt that the salespersons wrote for them, and received commissions and remuneration for.

c) Investments capable of destroying; lives, relationships, marriages and (as we have seen) even economies.

d) The fabric of the local (USA) and global economy.

Should have.

Little wonder then that the sub-prime lending criteria that applied had remarkable similarities to the nurtured talent’s opponent’s entry criteria; back when Don King and HBO worked together so well - to promote boxing tournaments and King’s fighters - that the outcomes were so predictable that they were successfully investigated and deemed non-competitive.

In other words the same criteria seemed to apply for a potential mortgage owner to meet thresholds and get a loan scheduled to be a part of one the above-mentioned securitized packages, approved - as that which applied to be an opponent of one of King’s main fighters featuring on a King/HBO promotion.

And the criteria was; the applicant must be able to fog a mirror with his exhalations when standing as close to it as possible.

Any amount of fog will do. There is no minimum quantity.

And, as if the fact that the big end of town, where it all really started, got let off lightly; didn’t rub salt in the wound and smack of hypocrisy enough. You have to feel sorry for the poor old debtors and mortgage holders here. As they not only got to see the majority of the big fish swim away Scott free whilst learning that their dream home was actually a nightmare when it came to valuation. But, just as that shock was setting in it was stunningly “complemented” by the creditors – yes those whom were largely culpable for the fraud in the 1st place - turning on their home-owner “prey” and, without a single morale thought at all, driving them deep into insolvency - almost as if the creditors themselves had absolutely no idea what the debtor’s true debt to earning ratio (remember; the one that was ignored) was, or how inescapable any economic theory defines its importance really is.

Yet, according to the New York attorney general department and the federal mortgage taskforce they/you cant find anyone to meaningfully prosecute over this.

Incredible it is then, the ease at which several documentary makers and others out there can find witnesses and evidence that not only relates to misrepresentation, fraud and deception; but also seems to prove it.

One law for them, and another for us; as they commonly say.

So I agree with you BS; this thing is too big to ignore.

Not in the least as all the common-folk that were deceived by the lending frenzies and mortgage ruses now go bankrupt, divorce and experience all the other hardships associated with this unique kind of morale and financial disease that was allowed to grow to such proportions that the government themselves were afraid to look inward.

As those that created it are most likely enjoying their bail out funds and still in the same offices and houses.

Now, I wonder if that catastrophic imbalance, fraud and inaction has anything to do with the fact that many of the USA government offices charged to investigate and prosecute the matter were actually at arm’s length to congress whom themselves. The same congress that;

a) Not only were responsible for the market deregulation that literally ushered in the majority of the market’s questionable practices that also gave rise to the era of mortgage backed securities - when it back flipped on a law it had previously enacted (Glass Steagal; during the last depression) that was designed to prevent banks, investment institutions and insurance companies from existing under the same roof or as the same institution - in order to deter the speculative hype and reckless rumor that was, at the time of the last depression, associated with the way depositors' money was managed; because that conduct was one major contributor to the stock market instability of, or after, that depressing time.

b) Had their own fortunes invested in the organisations at the heart of the scam.

c) Propped up the above-mentioned organisations because they had their own fortunes invested in the organisations at the heart of the scam.

d) Prevented any meaningful prosecution.

So, short story; the congress – that is those charged with the responsibility of enacting and upholding laws created to regulate the market - were actually in some way responsible for and/or connected to deregulating the market, facilitating the GFC fraud and poorly investigating and prosecuting all those whom shamelessly profited from it and all the victim’s grief and losses.

Surprise, surprise!!!

But then, perhaps it needn’t be that complex. I mean do we need to be reminded that banks, congress, financial institutions and law-makers, have no conscience? Or that the attorney general and congress could spend a lifetime prosecuting those with a conflict of interest pertaining to non-GFC matters; whilst they themselves work towards, possess and protect one in relation to the GFC?

And, after all, who are we really kidding to think that anything else should have happened? Particularly when the congresses’ above-mentioned deregulatory actions and their other relaxed attitudes literally gave rise to the stock-broking industry and its salespersons advising and directing the mortgage broking industry and its salespersons; on how best to manage both the responsibility of the global economy and also the welfare of those socio-economic sectors that usually are not clients to either fraternity.

No wonder economics is a failed discipline and that no one has been meaningfully held responsible.

As those charged to prevent the global scale fraud and investigate it; actually caused it.

Anyway, all this makes boxing seem like the sweet, simple and safe science. ☺

brownsugar says:

agreed Stormcentre,..

I think the home loan scam which was being run out of the tri-state area and parts of pennsilvania are the worst.
somebody tacks flyers on telephone poles offering easy access to homeloans to folks with little to no income and credit.
literally thousands of these homes are purchased in urban areas (at least 500 in the capitol of Ohio) and are in need of repair.

The victim takes the loan and the house, and are evicted after not being able to keep up with the shifting mortgage rates... AFTER they have spent a large part of the loan making repairs to house which is part of the agreement. The houses are resold while the victims are chased for the past balance.

And it's 100% legal.

Generally speaking,.. economy-wise things are going to get very ugly,.. and I'm deperately searching for a solution. I wish I could just magically move to an acre of farmland with a well, and solar panels and just live off the land... but I know it's not going to be that easy.

anyway great comments.

stormcentre says:

Agreed BS, and thanks for your kind words.

If ever there was a requirement to keep capital punishment alive (if there's such a thing/sentence) it would be to deal with the scum that have perpetrated that crime/fraud on society and the world, and those that have prevented it from being appropriately addressed.

SouthPaul says:

Speaking of Don King, Thomas Hauser penned a good peice on him yesterday. Don King In The Twilight. I felt like I was reading a living mans eulogy. What a fascinating life he's lived yet all he'll ever likely be remembered for is the crook who swindled his clients. Some of that being because the masses are
ignorant fools---- hardly research anything beyond what they're fed--- some of it being because it's true. The criminal who becomes a promoting revolutionary the promoter revolutionists who becomes a businessman who then becomes a celebrity who then ends his career and life like that of a third world
dictator. The inner city community of boxing being that world-- the third world brethren he continuously robbed, looted, plundered, and pillaged. Kicked off his thrown by those very people. Don to the ghetto was what Saddam Hussein was to Iraqis and what Mummadar Gaddafi was to Libyans. A savior then a trader. Complex man.

Would love to be a fly on his home wall. See how much of his personality was truly a facade.

brownsugar says:

Rumble young man ....Rumble!

SouthPaul says:

Here's an excerpt from that piece. Don says this to Cloud just before he makes his ring entrance :


* “Mr. Thunder,” he roared. “The storm is coming. Let the warm air come in and mix with the cold air and we’ll have ourselves a storm. God parted the waters for Moses. We’re gonna part the waters tonight. This man is gonna strike a blow that will free us all. The walls of Jericho came tumbling down. You got to land that thunderous blow for all mankind.”

stormcentre says:

Yes, DK is a legend for many reasons.

I actually like hearing him talk (sometimes). I kind of use it for humor, and like a competition. I try to see how much of it I can understand and make sense of. It's also funny to see him on late night chat shows SpruiKing his latest interest totally oblivious and without concern for what the host thinks.

I'll give the man one thing. He is thick skinned. Actually he surely must be a force to be reckoned with. Not just because of his past and boxing promotional moves in general. But years ago the USA tax department and the FBI were on his case big, big time for a list of scary allegations.

King took them all on in court and opened a can of whip-azz on them all.

That tells you a lot.

SouthPaul says:

He's definitely a brilliant man. He had Judd Burstein all over him litigation wise and somehow turned it around on Judd by having some sort of landmark judgment held against him in another country even though Burstein had never stepped foot there. I forget the exact details but if you get bored ...google some old interviews using Burstein's name. Interesting read...

stormcentre says:

Saw a doco on King a while back. One thing everyone said, particularly all the HBO and other executives of the time, was that King was crackling sharp and much, much smarter than they all initially thought. Sure, as expected, there were people that were ripped off heavily by him, but the majority of the people involved had at some stage been completely blown out by how clever King was.

One thing is for sure. The dude knows how to angle and play the game, plus he can afford a lot of good lawyer.

They're usually the people I try to, not always successfully mind you, not to get on the wrong side of.

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