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LOTIERZO'S LOWDOWN Unjust Decision Hiding Pacquiao's Obvious Erosion

BY Frank Lotierzo ON July 16, 2012
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PacquiaoBradley Hogan 30When judge Jerry Roth told HBO's Jim Lampley that he judged Manny Pacquiao's performance versus Timothy Bradley against what vintage Pacquiao might have done to Bradley as the reason why he scored the fight so closely in Manny's favor, every fan with a scintilla of common sense admonished him. And rightly so. But if nothing else, Ford highlighted one thing that's been lost in the controversy, and that is Pacquiao has declined dramatically as a fighter. In his last two fights he was out-boxed and should've lost the decision against Juan Manuel Marquez. And according to two of the only three people that count, he lost to Bradley.

To think that Pacquiao could win a decision against Floyd Mayweather who recently beat Miguel Cotto convincingly in his last fight is almost in-comprehensible. Manny is not the same fighter he was when he fought Miguel Cotto in 2009. Mayweather has said repeatedly that Pacquiao can be out-boxed and nullified by fighters who give him different looks and a little foot movement, something both Marquez and Bradley fed Pacquiao. Notice that not only did Marquez and Bradley go the distance, they were never down or on the verge of going down against Pacquiao. In fact, neither were ever in trouble during the fight.

Floyd out lasted Manny in the sense that when they finally meet, he'll hold every advantage in and out of the ring. He knew the fight would be there for him whenever he wanted it. The horrific decision that went against Pacquiao in his last fight won't hurt the gate for a Mayweather-Pacquiao bout in 2013. The fact that the boxing media has pushed a fight between Mayweather and Pacquiao as if it's the only fight that matters insures it will be a monster gate and attraction when it does happen as long as Pacquiao wins the next time out. Yes, the fight will happen well past it's sell by date, but it won't matter.

Have even the keenest boxing observers noticed how much Pacquiao has eroded? And whether it was against Mosley, Marquez or Bradley, Manny can't fight all out for three minutes a round anymore. And now when punches are coming at him with a little movement mixed in, he's no longer the instinctive attacker he used to be. Marquez forced Manny to think his way in, which helped stymie his runs and Bradley didn't change up much, other than he grew more confident once he weathered Manny's best between rounds three and nine. What's the common link? Pacquiao's aggression was blunted and re-directed by both fighters. Marquez isn't nearly as big or strong as Mayweather and Bradley isn't nearly as good. In fact, I don't think that Pacquiao was stronger than Marquez in their most recent fight, which came as a shock to everyone involved. I've actually heard Manny say that he was surprised to find that Marquez was stronger than he was.

Even at his best, Manny would've been life and death to beat Mayweather because of the style clash and Floyd's advantage in size and strength. Once you factor in the size and strength difference (which, in this instance actually is a factor) and it spells disaster for Pacquiao. To hear some mention how Pacquiao attacks in angles sounds great in conversation and looks good in print. However, what is overlooked is that Manny is much more stationary and predictable once he gets cracked a few times. And when he's more upright, you can see him trying to think his way through the fight instead of being the ferocious attacker he once was. Mayweather no doubt sees this and realizes that once he straightens Pacquiao up with a few direct lefts and rights, he'll start thinking his way in opposed to moving in reactive and instinctively. And once Floyd reduces him to that, game over.

Make no mistake, I think that Manny would leave nothing of himself in the ring that night, and he'd fight beyond his current capabilities. But that's not enough to win him the fight, or even put him close. Granted, he didn't bring his A-game for Bradley, but he tried to against Marquez. Freddie Roach beat that to death in the run up to the fight, yet Manny was clearly out-fought and should've lost the fight. No doubt, Pacquiao will do better against Mayweather than Marquez did, which in all likelihood will equate to him winning two rounds, three at the most.

The unjust decision that went against Pacquiao in the Bradley fight has quelled the stench of just how bad Pacquiao has looked in his last two bouts. The interest in a proposed fight with with Mayweather is no longer compelling. How can it be when there's little doubt as to who the winner will be? Floyd is too big, too strong and too versatile. It's doubtful that Mayweather's three month jail sentence will ruin him. Notice how all of the sudden he's quiet and just doing his time. He will probably be a little more humbled when he gets out, something that will likely make him an even more focused fighter.

In summation, Manny Pacquiao beat Timothy Bradley and was hosed out of the decision. However, the outrage over the decision has driven the conversation towards the scoring of fights and corruption. It's totally taken the light off of just how so-so Pacquiao has looked in his last two fights. He's no longer the Super-nova of 2008-2010 and that version of him is gone forever. Add to that his confidence isn't what it was, something that Mayweather has no doubt picked up on, and his chances of beating Floyd are slim.

If you're a big Pacquiao fan, relish how much fun he's been to watch over the last eight years. He's no doubt one of the best pound-for-pound fighters of the last 25 years and is a certain all-time great. But he will not be the fighter to finally knock Floyd Mayweather off his high perch.

For two years it's been said in this space that Manny Pacquiao can't and won't beat Floyd Mayweather if and when they fight. Nothing has changed and I further endorse that opinion.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

Comment on this article

deepwater says:

Styles make fights. PAC and Marquez will always be a close matchup . That said how the hell could PAC look any better against a boxer who ran the whole fight. Bradley looked like crap and won 2 rounds if that. Arum and his crooked judge should be held to account by writers and fans. Out of the crooked judges mouth he said he didn't give rounds to PAC based on another fight? How the f can anyone except that? Put PAC in there with someone that exchanges and watch how PAC beats the crap out of them.

pogi2 says:

sa tagalog , pinoy gayan ang style, nagppadihado para lumaban si gayweather:

Radam G says:

We all slip. Even in our writing, just as in our fighting. Boxing is the "threatre of the unexpected." Nobody needs to make jingoistic and nationalistic comments for "Lil" Floyd Mayweather. He can settle this whole thing by FIGHTING Da Manny. It is not rocket science, just sweet science.

Huwag gayan iyan, Pogi2. Sypreme, Pinoy ay mas galing-galing. Di tayo kailangan mga masamang o mainit ulo. Ngayon sa ingles susunod.

You can always expect the "Ugly American." No need for us to become the "Ugly" Filipino. Just remember that we are for REAL. And we serve REALITY and will get the REAL victory, not a mirage through not doing da d@mn thing or by getting cheated by a couple angry bigots upset about being delayed because of a basketball won by a Pinoy coach.

Da Manny KAYOS Tom -- I mean Tim -- Bradley the next time out. And we KAYO Lil Floyd anytime, anyplace. And will KICK Marquez's a$$ a fourth time. And the haters, faders and vaporers will continue to say that Marquez won and that Da Manny has no chance against -- in the words of the Rican Don -- "Scareweather." Holla!

amayseng says:

find me anyone in life who is 33 and compares to their 25-29 year old self... no one does

no one.

floyd doesnt

ali didnt

tyson didnt

i dont


of course pac isnt the same monster, but ****, he is still a monster..

you dont have to throw 1200 punches a fight to be great..

pac can throw 60 a round and be a monster

mortcola says:

I have to say, ethically, that Manny Pacquiao is not my patient, and that my comments cannot be construed to be valid diagnoses - in case anyone was confused. I do not see physical erosion. I see a man who is dutifully attending to his job, but with mixed feelings. At his pinnacle, he was also reaching a peak of self-indulgence, which threatened his marriage, and by his account, his soul. He then went deep into the bible and sought to eliminate self-indulgence, sin, and cruelty from his life (good luck). The unquestioning belief in one's own right to fight for supremacy or survival depends on not having second thoughts. It requires spontaneous, uncomplicated focus and desire to deliver destructive blows as quickly and effectively as possible. Additionally, as a politician who happens to want to sing love songs to the world, he is now concerned with how people see him, not just god. Although he and his camp have reassured everyone that he will not be distracted by his political or religious preoccupations, I am increasingly convinced that we are seeing a man who does not take joy in his own violent nature any more, experiences a degree of inhibition, and has in effect taken the edge off his own sheer Duran-like love of fighting. He is going to the office and trying to give people their money's worth, but he is not only no longer committed to destroying the other guy, he actively feels wrong about it, just enough so that he passes up opportunities, takes breaks, and doesn't even punch THROUGH the way he used to. Add to that the leg-cramp thing, which may be real and/or psychosomatic, and you have a fighter who can no longer commit to destructiveness when he gets in the ring. The psychology of violence is a big deal in boxers, something that doesn't get talked about a lot.

Carmine Cas says:

Like I have said before, Pacquiao's awesome boxing ability is derived from his physicality. Once his speed and reflexes go, the more ordinary he'll look. Pacquiao gained his major popularity from beating weaker competition starting with David Diaz, all cherry picked by top rank to develop him as a cash cow. The pacquiao of 2008 might be able to topple the less mobile, more stationery Mayweather of present. But Floyd possesses the boxing IQ and mobility still left in his legs to trump Pacquiao (aside from his skills ).

Pacmon says:

Pacquiao was not out-boxed by Bradley! In fact that was the reverse! Pacquiao won in all departments but the judges judged him based on his previous fights! Is that fair? How can you compare a fighter of 33 to a fighter of 24 when he annihilated Marco Antonio Barrera? Of course there will be a difference! But if the 3 judges scored the fight based on the present fight, Pacquiao clearly won! And also, he wobbled Bradley many times! Only, maybe due to his present religious beliefs, he don't want to inflict any serious damage to his opponents anymore! Take the case in Round 4 when Bradley twisted due to Pacman's solid left! If that was before, then goodbye Bradley! He didn't took the opportunity to finish him because he doesn't want to inflict more damage, not due to his erosion! He's just content to win on points, that even that was taken from him even though he won clearly!Not a single punch from Bradley ever hurt the Pacman!

Pacmon says:

The thinking that Pacquiao can't beat Floyd due to difference in their skill is merely a hypothesis! Anyone can't predict the outcome of a fight! One good punch can spell the difference! To wit: Khan vs Garcia, Jaro vs Wonjongkam, Pacquiao vs Sasakul & so on! Floyd can win all the 11 rounds of the fight but if Pacquiao hit him with his laser left! Goodbye Floyd! I don't believe that Floyd is stronger than Pacquiao! Cotto was pummeled & annihilated by Pacquiao, but can you say the same in Cotto vs Mayweather? In fact, it was Floyd's nose which become bloody! Not the same when Pacman annihilated Cotto! Much of Cotto's blood was spilled on the ring!

Coxs Corner says:

I've been saying all along this fight mattered and should have happened in 2009. Pacquiao clearly beat Bradley but he has slowed down a little and fights more in spurts now, plus he has had alot of fights and wars in his career which does diminish a fighter over time. Pacquiao-Mayweather will still sell as Frank says but its not the same compelling fight it would have been in 2009 as Manny isnt the same fighter.

Matthew says:

Ever since the Mayweather-Pacquiao matchup was first discussed in 2009, my feeling was that if they ever fought, Mayweather would win a decision. Nothing I have seen recently has changed that opinion. Both fighters have slowed down, as every fighter does when they get older. Mayweather appears more hittable, and also seems to be a bit slower of foot. Pacquiao, however, seems to have declined more noticeably. I saw the first signs of slippage in his fight with Margarito, and they have been more apparent in his subsequent bouts. His punch output has really dropped; prior to 2010 he was a whirling dervish who constantly threw punches from all angles. Some of it can be attributed to age, some of it is due to what I view as waning interest in the sport and his being distracted by other interests. In any event, this fight (if it is ever made, which I seriously doubt) is past it's sell-by date. It should have happened in 2010 when both were still near their peak.

dino da vinci says:

I have to say, ethically, that Manny Pacquiao is not my patient, and that my comments cannot be construed to be valid diagnoses - in case anyone was confused. I do not see physical erosion. I see a man who is dutifully attending to his job, but with mixed feelings. At his pinnacle, he was also reaching a peak of self-indulgence, which threatened his marriage, and by his account, his soul. He then went deep into the bible and sought to eliminate self-indulgence, sin, and cruelty from his life (good luck). The unquestioning belief in one's own right to fight for supremacy or survival depends on not having second thoughts. It requires spontaneous, uncomplicated focus and desire to deliver destructive blows as quickly and effectively as possible. Additionally, as a politician who happens to want to sing love songs to the world, he is now concerned with how people see him, not just god. Although he and his camp have reassured everyone that he will not be distracted by his political or religious preoccupations, I am increasingly convinced that we are seeing a man who does not take joy in his own violent nature any more, experiences a degree of inhibition, and has in effect taken the edge off his own sheer Duran-like love of fighting. He is going to the office and trying to give people their money's worth, but he is not only no longer committed to destroying the other guy, he actively feels wrong about it, just enough so that he passes up opportunities, takes breaks, and doesn't even punch THROUGH the way he used to. Add to that the leg-cramp thing, which may be real and/or psychosomatic, and you have a fighter who can no longer commit to destructiveness when he gets in the ring. The psychology of violence is a big deal in boxers, something that doesn't get talked about a lot.


Absolutely love reading mortcola.

But mortcola, Pac is regressing back to the median. I believe if this is the new look for Pacman, Floyd got his wish, he has managed to outlast him. Lotierzo's right. Everyone is talking about the horrible decision. No one's really mentioned how ordinary Manny looked. And as a mention, please, no one needs to come to Manny's rescue. I'm a fan of the Pacster, but if you think Manny is going to be fighting at the same level he fought at for the last several years thirty years from now, you're mistaken. Fifteen years...five years from now? So, it becomes a matter of when will he turn the corner. The Bradley fight might end up becoming Exhibit 'A' in the decline of Manny. Manny didn't look right. It could be a variety factors, but if he doesn't look right in his next outing, and the outing after that...well, then we'll see a pattern developing, won't we? Bless Manny, he did what Oscar De La Hoya, JC Superstar, Mike Tyson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Ali, and on and on it goes did...they carried the sport on their shoulders for a period of time. And when they say there will never be another so-n-so, they are wrong. All those guys mentioned above, and many more, are larger than life; and have used boxing as their vehicle to become both world famous and wealthy. They are, for the most part, originals...extremely well compensated artists performing on the great stage of sports at the highest level.
This is almost starting to become a rant, but for those of you who don't consider boxing a form of art and who from time to time call for the banning of the sport, let me share the following with you. Julio Cesar Chavez was built in a warehouse by the Mexican government. A perfect 'seek and destroy' piece of machinery. He fought Pernell Whitaker. Watch the event. Then explain to me how this sport isn't the perfect blend of art and science.

@Carmine Cas. Nice post, Carmine.

Radam G says:

@DDV, I'm reminded of Roberto Duran. He didn't look right after getting knocked da double fudge out by Tommy Hearns. But that "Fists of Iron" dude didn't fool me. After that nasty night with the Motorcity Hitman, everybodee and dey momma, except for Radam G and a few seen-it-all, know-it-all cats jumped on the funeral wagon to bury the FoI.

Nonetheless the FoI shocked 'em by coming back and winning two more weight divisions -- 154lbs and 160lbs, and boxing until he was 50 years old. And he'd still be going if not for career-ending injuries in a car wreck.

And you know what, I can go to the history storage of my 100bil neurons up in my cranium and name umpteen pugilists, who fans and scribes tried to take to boothill. Counting Money Mays -- I mean chickens -- before the eggs hatch is some dangerous ground, or maybe just a dunghill. And there, you will not find Jack and/or Jill. Hehehehe!

Jailhouse Junbug has not outlasted Da Manny. JJ is and has always been the one of the decline. But stanks -- I mean Yanks -- want you to nationalistically and jingoistically believe that he is an eternal goldmine. That is why you guys keep goldrushing dat used-up/jailhoused-up cat with those fanasties of eternal youngivity.

If JJ, aka Money May, can get over his jailhouse illnesses and phobia and enter that squared jungle with Da Manny, JJ/MM/LF gets KAYOED EARLY in real-time in real-life and real-talk. Hehehe! Hahahaha! Holla!

Matthew says:

Actually, Duran only won one title after getting knocked out by Hearns. That was the middleweight belt he won from Iran Barkley. He beat Davey Moore for the 154 lb strap the year before "The Malice at the Palace." And while he looked like the Duran of old in beating Barkley, most would agree he was not the same fighter he was when he beat Moore or took Hagler down to the wire.

dino da vinci says:

@DDV, I'm reminded of Roberto Duran. He didn't look right after getting knocked da double fudge out by Tommy Hearns. But that "Fists of Iron" dude didn't fool me. After that nasty night with the Motorcity Hitman, everybodee and dey momma, except for Radam G and a few seen-it-all, know-it-all cats jumped on the funeral wagon to bury the FoI.

Nonetheless the FoI shocked 'em by coming back and winning two more weight divisions -- 154lbs and 160lbs, and boxing until he was 50 years old. And he'd still be going if not for career-ending injuries in a car wreck.

And you know what, I can go to the history storage of my 100bil neurons up in my cranium and name umpteen pugilists, who fans and scribes tried to take to boothill. Counting Money Mays -- I mean chickens -- before the eggs hatch is some dangerous ground, or maybe just a dunghill. And there, you will not find Jack and/or Jill. Hehehehe!

Jailhouse Junbug has not outlasted Da Manny. JJ is and has always been the one of the decline. But stanks -- I mean Yanks -- want you to nationalistically and jingoistically believe that he is an eternal goldmine. That is why you guys keep goldrushing dat used-up/jailhoused-up cat with those fanasties of eternal youngivity.

If JJ, aka Money May, can get over his jailhouse illnesses and phobia and enter that squared jungle with Da Manny, JJ/MM/LF gets KAYOED EARLY in real-time in real-life and real-talk. Hehehe! Hahahaha! Holla!


Rad, there have been over a million professional fighters in the gloved era, so we'll almost always find an exception to the rule. By the way, the real example you should have sited pertaining to Duran was following his back-to-back losses to Benitez and Kirkland Laing. That's where most fans hopped off the Manos de Piedra Express a bit early. And of course, it is well known that Teddy Brenner, the legendary matchmaker at Madison Square Garden pointed out that Duran probably still had a lot of mileage left on the odometer.

Radam, Question: Did Manny look like Manny in his last outing? Actually, it's a two part question. If the exact same Manny shows up, versus the exact same Floyd (who fought Cotto) who wins?

deepwater says:

styles make fights.And every fight is different. bradley did not really engage pac man . I think bradley did somewhat better against pac man then clottey did. clottey stunk the joint out also. If bradley sat down on his punches pac would have knocked him out I would bet. if floyd goes in the corner like he did against cotto I would see the southpaw pac landing a blow that would shake mayweather and possibly knock him out. cotto did alot better against floyd then bradley looked against pacman.

dino da vinci says:

styles make fights.And every fight is different. bradley did not really engage pac man . I think bradley did somewhat better against pac man then clottey did. clottey stunk the joint out also. If bradley sat down on his punches pac would have knocked him out I would bet. if floyd goes in the corner like he did against cotto I would see the southpaw pac landing a blow that would shake mayweather and possibly knock him out. cotto did alot better against floyd then bradley looked against pacman.


Yes, Deep, that's true, but then again Cotto is a far superior talent to Bradley. Or at least prime for prime.

Radam G says:

@DDV, Tom Bambi -- I mean Tim Bradley -- fought the way that I expected for him to fight. He ran like scary-a$$ bytch Bambi. And that was smart for him to do. A couple of corrupted cheats gave him a Christmas GIFT of a lifetime in June. And the coward has always said that he won't fight Da Manny again in November of because the exaggerated foot injuries of Bradley the bigmouthed bullsh*tter.

Deepwater answered that question for me that you asked. Styles make fights. Da Manny fighting a shoulder roller is not the same as with a bambi. And the game is 75 to 85 percent mental. And Money May is mentally scared like a bytch of Da Manny. So Da Manny will KAYO early any form of Jailhouse Junebug that shows up. Now if by some miracle, JJ develops some fighting courage and cojones, Da Manny would KAYO him in a middle to late round. Holla!

Radam G says:

Nobody is the same years, or even months later, in any sports, Matt. So people oughta halt da bullsh*tology about Money May's longevity and not losing a step.

Muthasuckas are just suffering from inattention blindness. BTW, Matt, my bad! I was counting the minor title of the NBA that Roberto Duran won. The NBA was the top dawg way back in da day before the 1960s. Holla!

the Roast says:

Yeah, no way Da Manny is slipping. Love is blindness. Don't want to see.

gibola says:

The real story of the Bradley fight was Manny's decline, not the decision. Like everybody else I love Pacman, his style, his fearlessness, his desire - however he is slipping fast and you know how we all said the PBF would pass it's sell-by-date? Well it's happened. I'd buy it but I don't see that a Mayweather fight is that competitive anymore to be honest. One-sided decision win for PBF wheras 3/4 years ago it was a pick 'em fight. Not disrespecting Manny, but nobody lasts forever.

Radam G says:

Everybody is slipping, the Roast. Even LOVE, especially LOVE! And that jive sees CLEARLY. LUST is the one that cannot see. LOVE see everything d@mn. LOVE saw that my parent dump me in boring -- I mean boarding -- school in Hong Kong, back in the day. I missed winning the gold at the O-games. But at least I'm going to live to see 40 years old. If I would being allowed to stay in the States, I probably not have made it to 20 years old.

I was one bad mofu with the Southern Cali Asian Boys. Anyway! Those d@mn Sin City judges musta' had a lot of love for their racism, nationalism and bullsh*tism, because they had some serious-arse blindness. "Don't want to see. Hehehehe! Holla!

Radam G says:

These slipping excuses are so typical of bigots slipping out of bigotry. Every darn body is slipping fast. The decision was the issue, not the decline. If that is the case, Money May would have been robbed his last three bouts, because he looked like syet to any fair-minded boxing authority without a bone to grind.

Money May almost got knocked out by a faded Sugar Shane. Crazy Vicious Victor was able to reach Money May and match punch for punch with him. And Miguel Cotto stay ahead of him, but lost the bout because of Money May appeal, not Money May skills. The iCRAZY talk about Da Manny's decline oughta halt. Just call a spade a spade. He got FUDGED because of the rise of hating foreigner making big money on the U.S. mainland. Holla!

MisterLee says:

Pac is now and has been a part time fighter for almost 2 years. I call that and a little bit of age for his erosion. More so the part time schedule, but he's still a great fighter. If he had trained full time his erosion would have been much slower and his combinations and timing would still be there. Holler!

MisterLee says:

I'm over Floyd and Pac as superstars tho. The mega fight to me has already expired. It was most relevant beginning 2010 to end of 2011. Even in 2009 when Pac first moved up to welter the fight was relevant. Now it's a moot point. Let's move on to Ward, Moreno, Russell, Broner, and other promisng superstars (Mikey Garcia, Mercito Gesta). Holler!

dino da vinci says:

I'm over Floyd and Pac as superstars tho. The mega fight to me has already expired. It was most relevant beginning 2010 to end of 2011. Even in 2009 when Pac first moved up to welter the fight was relevant. Now it's a moot point. Let's move on to Ward, Moreno, Russell, Broner, and other promisng superstars (Mikey Garcia, Mercito Gesta). Holler!


Agree 100%.

brownsugar says:

Me too....MrLee....the thrill is gone!!!!

dino da vinci says:

Me too....MrLee....the thrill is gone!!!!


Yes it's true. The reality is that Floyd prevented this fight from happening; and after Pac's outings with Marquez and Bradley, the bloom is off the rose. Face it, Floyd and Manny are our fathers' version of Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong. There's no way I'm not telling my grandchildren what Manny Pacquiao would have done to whomever the current champion will be at that time.

If the fight signed tomorrow, my pulse wouldn't change. Floyd wins a relatively boring 12 round decision. I'd rather see either fighter engage Cotto again.

If James Toney weighed 147, Toney and Pacquiao would have already fought six times. Because that's what champion's do.

brownsugar says:

I disagree with you there Dino, Pac should have agreed with taking the needle on the first go round rather than let a year go by while Arum inserted a wedge of contention. However I respect your thoughts and can understand why you come to that conclusion....and I'm too tired to even argue about the whole deal again...so I agree with you about that part...... Thanks for the feedback.

Radam G says:

No matter how anyone will revise history, IT WAS "Lil" Floyd's fright and smarts that the bout with Da Manny didn't happen. He took a page from Sugar Ray Robinson's ducking the "Black Murder Row," and thus, Jailhouse Junebug pridely and adroitly ducked the One-man Pinoy Murder Row.

Money May, who will one day gladly and proudly say that he used steriods, and he's done the greatest part of pugilism: Being very conning -- I mean cunning, and not giving a __ ___ ____ what anybody thought about him. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

I disagree with you there Dino, Pac should have agreed with taking the needle on the first go round rather than let a year go by while Arum inserted a wedge of contention. However I respect your thoughts and can understand why you come to that conclusion....and I'm too tired to even argue about the whole deal again...so I agree with you about that part...... Thanks for the feedback.


@Sugar. You're assuming that Floyd, upon hearing that Manny agreed to take the blood test, wouldn't of added, 'and for every dollar you earn I earn five, only my likeness can appear on the poster, Freddie's not allowed to work your corner, the guest judges are to be Manny, Moe and Jack, and, oh, Fiddy is to be the guest referee...'

brownsugar says:

Lol....your a funny guy Dino

Frank Z says:

are the pacfan feelings hurt? the vast majority of trainers, fighters, and boxing insiders in the writing game have said since 2009 that mayweather should be favored to beat pacquiao. pacquiao's power has been living off of a reputation julian jackson supremacy from one shot he threw at ricky hatton. he hasn't stopped anyone since late 2009 against a broken miguel cotto who had no true experience in his corner between rounds. even then if bayless had been less merciful he probably could have gone the distance on his feet. he threw 1200+ shots at clottey but still couldn't even wobble him. he his margarito about 1000 times literally and couldn't get him out in 12 whereas a 37 year old mosley got him out in 9. those who want to point out that margarito was weight drained against mosley but not agianst pacquiao, i submit the oscar de la hoya compared who fought floyd vs the ODL who fought mayweather. so unless you want to admit tha tpacquiao has made a name off weight draining bigger men don't try to go there you'll look foolish. pacquiao gets predictable not only if you crack him a few times, but also if you simply present a mobile target. see a nearly 40 year old shane mosley who was not throwing anything back of consequence and pacquiao still did not know how to get him out there. oh shane just went into survival mode you say, well cut the ring off and tee off on him. if you're really the julian jackson that your fans say you are, you sohuld be able to do it. if you're really the best p4p fighter today, you should know how to cut the ring off, especially if you're offensive firepower is so amazing. the fact is JMM already proved that moving to pacquiao's right hand and away from his power left you can make him throw the same pattern of punches over and over. pacquiao does not know how to mix up his punches or mix up his pace. he's in 5th gear constantly which allows crafty boxers to get his timing down. it's time long past time to call him exactly what he is: a talented, durable athlete with speed and power who boxes with a ton of heart, limited skill, and little to know ring IQ. he's made his name off of his promoter telling everyone within a remote control or mouse click that ANOTHER boxer is terrified of him, and off of fighting boxers that the supposed terrified boxer already fought. you cannot separate yourself from someone else if have 5 common opponents in the last 5 years with them, especially since when they fought you they usually made clear concessions that hampered their ability to perform that they did not make against the other terrified boxer. time to move on. manny if he fights bradley against will go through another 12 round fight where he'll win the majority of the rounds but get touched up plenty in return. if he fights JMM in the fall he'll be in for another life and death match where he'll lose the majority of the rounds unless father time decides to pay JMM a nasty visit at the absolute wrong time. he was never going to beat mayweather. the guy who showed up against cotto would have given mayweather problems for 2-3 rounds in the middle, that was it. nice little hype job on an exciting talented fighter with a trainer who has limited knowledge of how to develop a well rounded boxer.

brownsugar says:

where ya been FrankZ? should post more often... whether we agree or disagree.

the Roast says:

I still want the fight. Let me take the other side. Yes the fight should been made in 2010. It may be a better action fight now. You could say that both men have lost a step. Maybe two years ago Floyd would have had the footwork to move all night. Now he doesn't. Maybe two years ago Pac had the power to blast out Floyd. Now he doesn't. It very well could be that the fight will be better back and forth action. Think Leonard-Hearns 2. It was 8 years after the first fight but it was a great fight. Sugar Ray could not slip Hearns bombs and was dropped twice. Hearns could not box and move the way he did in '81. More action! You know you would spend the money on the PPV. No true boxing fan could pass on Pac vs Money. You know you want it.

dino da vinci says:

are the pacfan feelings hurt? the vast majority of trainers, fighters, and boxing insiders in the writing game have said since 2009 that mayweather should be favored to beat pacquiao. pacquiao's power has been living off of a reputation julian jackson supremacy from one shot he threw at ricky hatton. he hasn't stopped anyone since late 2009 against a broken miguel cotto who had no true experience in his corner between rounds. even then if bayless had been less merciful he probably could have gone the distance on his feet. he threw 1200+ shots at clottey but still couldn't even wobble him. he his margarito about 1000 times literally and couldn't get him out in 12 whereas a 37 year old mosley got him out in 9. those who want to point out that margarito was weight drained against mosley but not agianst pacquiao, i submit the oscar de la hoya compared who fought floyd vs the ODL who fought mayweather. so unless you want to admit tha tpacquiao has made a name off weight draining bigger men don't try to go there you'll look foolish. pacquiao gets predictable not only if you crack him a few times, but also if you simply present a mobile target. see a nearly 40 year old shane mosley who was not throwing anything back of consequence and pacquiao still did not know how to get him out there. oh shane just went into survival mode you say, well cut the ring off and tee off on him. if you're really the julian jackson that your fans say you are, you sohuld be able to do it. if you're really the best p4p fighter today, you should know how to cut the ring off, especially if you're offensive firepower is so amazing. the fact is JMM already proved that moving to pacquiao's right hand and away from his power left you can make him throw the same pattern of punches over and over. pacquiao does not know how to mix up his punches or mix up his pace. he's in 5th gear constantly which allows crafty
boxers to get his timing down. it's time long past time to call him exactly what he is: a talented, durable athlete with speed and power who boxes with a ton of heart, limited skill, and little to know ring IQ. he's made his name off of his promoter telling everyone within a remote control or mouse click that ANOTHER boxer is terrified of him, and off of fighting boxers that the supposed terrified boxer already fought. you cannot separate
yourself from someone else if have 5 common opponents in the last 5 years with them, especially since when they fought you they usually made clear concessions that hampered their ability to perform that they did not make against the other terrified boxer. time to move on. manny if he fights bradley against will go through another 12 round fight where he'll win the majority of the rounds but get touched up plenty in return. if he fights JMM in the fall he'll be in for another life and death match where he'll lose the majority of the rounds unless father time decides to pay JMM a nasty visit at the absolute wrong time. he was never going to beat mayweather. the guy who showed up against cotto would have given mayweather problems for 2-3 rounds in the middle, that was it. nice little hype job on an exciting talented fighter with a trainer who has limited knowledge of how to develop a well rounded boxer.


Yet another monster added? Really, how impressive can this site continue to get, I ask you?

Radam G says:

Well, a halfwitted crackpot, ex-great cloner and instigator has come out of the deep dark with his bullsh*tology and bigotry since Da Manny got ROBBED. YUP! Reality distortion and make-believe intelligence always bring 'em into the light for a sec with phony-arse, fake-superior-than-you "BOXING IQ" sh*t. But the MINUTE that Da Manny GODzilla and GOrilla the mirage Bambi -- I mean Bradley, the haters will come up with some other dumb-$$ ___ __ ___ ___.

When was the last time that B-Hop had a knockout? That is what I thought! But did it didn't take anything away from his greatness.

How many kayos have Lil Floyd had since coming up to welterweight? Not MANY! And that is what I thought! But it didn't take anything from his greatness. The Web is the latest outlet for the iCrazies, so expect for them to bring it on all summer long, and then some.

I can't wait for the jail-affected-him excuses that there will be when Lil' Floyd is TORCHED. But those excuses will not fly. Because half of the bada$$es in da game has spent time on lockdown. Until the turn of the century, 75 percent of all African American were on probate or had been on extended lockdown or as a youth had been to reform-type of lockdown. Holla!

Radam G says:

Wow! In ten YEARS, B-Hop has only had two kayos. And as a light-heavyweight, he has NEVER kayoed anybody -- not even wobbled 'em!

You KNOW WHAT! For every piece of dumb SH*T that ___ ___ ___ __ nutcase says about Da Manny, I can name umpteen fighters who are the exact SAME, and that muthasucka won't say JACK about 'em. I guess he suffers from inattention blindness. And I know that he suffers from ethnic-hate aiming. Somebody oughta call a RACIST -- I mean a spade -- a spade. Da Manny is the GREATEST fighter of this era, PERIOD!

Money May will come outta jail and get -- beaten -- not ROBBED. BUT beat! And his groupies, fanboys, guy fuzzies, booty lickers and nuthuggers will probably start bytching to Prez O to give 'em a month of mourning. Hehehehehe!

I'm just lovin' what is coming up. And I get all giggly how fools and suckas think that they can talk smack, make up syet and avoid the obviously future, and believe that somehow that smack talk and making syet won't be run over by da FUTURE.

Frank Z says:

@ Brownsugar good to be back my friend. there was an issue with the site a while back where i couldn't register for some reason.looks like it's been fixed though and it feels great to be back and discussing/arguing with folks here.

now radam, i can understand you enjoy manny's performances. i'm sure he gives you great pride as a pinoy and that's great. however, you talking about floyd's potential demise and about how everything negative said about manny is stupid is.... well.... denial. yeah manny got robbed, but i recall you talking in the prefight predictions about how manny was supposed to destroy bradley and destroy him early when they fought.

yeah a boxer shouldn't be measured purely by whether or not he stops his opponents, but in manny's case, where he gets his wins by accumulation of punishment for late stoppages (with two exceptions)? yeah it's saying something. and no manny's boxing IQ does not rank high. when have you ever seen him do anything that was efficient in the ring? i mean anything? he resorted to trying to juke marquez like he was a point guard. he's made his boxing bed off of durability toughness conditioning and athleticism, but even in his last fight he was outworked pretty clearly in rounds 10-12. we've heard the story at least for the 3rd time in a row about how this was supposed to be the best that manny pacquiao has ever looked in camp and he's ended up looking lost for long stretches during his bouts. and you can name umpteenth fighters who are the same? who? and which one of them was touted by so many as a top p4p fighter?

Radam G says:

Go and play with yourself and that syet that your fakery makes you see an IQ, which is a big NOT. Work that bell curve. Every___ ___ ___ uses it to keep those racist myths going for them. Now clone that. Holla!

Frank Z says:

Go and play with yourself and that syet that your fakery makes you see an IQ, which is a big NOT. Work that bell curve. Every___ ___ ___ uses it to keep those racist myths going for them. Now clone that. Holla!


brilliant, never thought of that.

Frank Z says:

just cause i don't sing pacquiao's praises all the time means i'm racist? ok.

dino da vinci says:

Go and play with yourself and that syet that your fakery makes you see an IQ, which is a big NOT. Work that bell curve. Every___ ___ ___ uses it to keep those racist myths going for them. Now clone that. Holla!


Radam, my tortured genius friend. I have to tell you, this time, I believe you're wrong.

Rad, a 147 pound pink space alien named RobNink could land here on planet earth and if people here in TSSU say he can defeat Pacquiao, it's because they believe he can defeat Pacquiao.

They say Rob has a sweet jab, it's because they believe Rob has a sweet jab. They are not saying, Nink has a sweet jab because I also hate all things Pinoy. They're saying "Sweet" Rob moves that round pink body of his ever so perfectly to paint his opponent with it, like he's a Picasso in pink trunks.

You, yourself have policed this site, running off the stragglers who found their way in. The one's who wanted to spew their poision, their venom, and turn this space from Park Place & Boardwalk into Mediterranean Ave & Baltic. You didn't let them and you sent them packing and we love you for it. G-Man, there are a lot of quality opinions on this site. When they disagree with you, that doesn't make them racist.

Radam G says:

ddv, I never called anyone a racist because of who he picks. I picked Southern Cali Mexicans and blacks to beat Northern Cali Pinoys everyday of the week and two on Sunday. I have a long history with Frank Z, and I personally know that he is a RACIST, cyberspace stalker and a CLONER.

In the old Universe, this dude use to clone me and spit out all type of racist syet against blacks, and pretend that I was spitting out self-racist stuff against myself and Filipinos. I know that he was the one because I tracked his ___ ___ ___. I'm computer savvy. And if I'm not, I got two brothers who are geniuses and create every type of app and computer program that you can think of. Besides, he has several other pseudonyms that I also know. Holla!

dino da vinci says:

...and the plot thickens. :-)

Radam G says:

Oh, YUP! ddv, BTW, Da Manny would kayo RobNink's pink space alien arse EARLY! Hehehehe! Da mutha-alien is probably a bootlegged shoulder roller too. Do they have a jail from whatever planet that he's from? Wow! Talkin' 'bout parallel universe jive. I bet RobNink beats the hebejeebeez outta his babies' momma too and is ducking a yellow space alien named PacGivesA$$whuppin.

Now those green-arse midget Martians would last against Da Manny until the middle rounds. And then: KaPOW! KaBOOM! KaZUNK! Lights OUT! Down go da Martians! Down go da Martians! Down go da Martians! Dey've been PacWHUPPED! Hahaha!

I'm never bias! And I'm willing to sell anybody that town that I own on Venus. There are some nice damsels there. [And some damwits are believing my every word.] Holla!

dino da vinci says:

Rad, what happened between RobNink and JanNink was a misunderstanding completely blown out of proportion by the InterGlobal Press. Yes, although initially they did take Rob in, charges were never filed. The matter is now in the rear view mirror. And Radam, as Nink's newly hired advisor for this round landing base of a station, (his words, not mine), those are slanderous remarks pertaining to his babies' mamma, so don't make us track you and and ding your net worth.
And Rad, if the last outing of your guy is indicative of where his skills are now at, Nink stops him inside the distance. Just sayin'.

Radam G says:

HeheheheHahaha! Holla!

Frank Z says:

there's no plot cause i've never said anything racist on this TSSU universe or the old one, nor have i ever cloned anyone.

On the real boxing note, pacquiao's inability to adjust and dictate the space of the ring has been a weakness always, and it'll just show up more as his athletic ability breaks down. it'll be much more obvious in 2013 and 2014. he'll likely be around then too because of his financial difficulties, as evidenced by his problems with visionquest.

dino da vinci says:

there's no plot cause i've never said anything racist on this TSSU universe or the old one, nor have i ever cloned anyone.

On the real boxing note, pacquiao's inability to adjust and dictate the space of the ring has been a weakness always, and it'll just show up more as his athletic ability breaks down. it'll be much more obvious in 2013 and 2014. he'll likely be around then too because of his financial difficulties, as evidenced by his problems with visionquest.


If he is truly in financial straights, as I have heard, it is heartbreaking. He's been doing this like what seems forever, against a roster of quality opponents. Amongst the people actually entitled to earn, add those that are helping themselves, then add on his generousity, and you can see where he may have to do this for a lot longer.

Radam G says:

Ddv, don't believe that dumb syet. Da Manny will never become broke. And Da Bobfather and nobody else are stealing his money. Unlike these haters want. Pinoys are not half devils and half children. We are in charge of our own moola, and know how to think for ourselves. Holla!

Radam G says:

Da Manny will have money like his idols Rev. ["Big"> George Foreman, Sugar Ray Leonard and GOAT Muhammad Ali. As time time and investments go on, Da Manny's money will increase, not decrease. BTW, with his indorsements in more than 60 countries and his movie making, his triples any amount that any modern-day boxer makes. Matter of fact, as the media called $250mil-making-in-2005 Big Money Oscar De la Hoya the Bill Gates of athletes. At the time, ole Billy boy were the richest cat on the planet. It just a matter of time before the media will soon call $____ _____Da Manny the Carlos Slim of athletes. Mexico native Slim is the 2012 richest cat on the planet.

myth says:

Lotierzo:

While I appreciate the in-depth and intelligent analysis of the erosion of Pacquiao's abilities I am amused by the tone. You have written this article as if you have a time machine and you have already witnessed the outcome.

There are many what if's including Mayweather's hands, Pacquiao's pride, Mayweather's decline from being in prison, Pacquiao potentially taking a leave from his governmental duties, etc.

If I bet on boxing (which I haven't, but am open), I'm Mayweather at anything less than 2:1.

and if you do have a time machine lets go talk to [URL="http://illuminutti.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/giorgio_tsoukalos.jpg">giorgio tsoukalos

zaldy says:

You're WRONG Frank Lotierzo and you're RIGHT !!!!

You're Wrong that Manny cant beat Floyd Mayweather.... and you're right that Manny can't beat Floyd because Floyd IS SCARED OF MANNY.. HE KEEPS ON EVADING MANNY. FLOYD HAD LOTS OF EXCUSES... FLOYD ALWAYS ASK FOR RIDICULOUS CONDITIONS.. ALL I THOUGHT IS THAT AT THE END OF THE AMERICAN NATIONAL ANTHEM IT SAYS....
O'er the land of the free.. and the home of the BRAVE.. (WHERE IS IT??) SO Frank Lotierzo, YOU'RE RIGHT MANNY CAN'T BEAT FLOYD COZ HE KEEPS ON EVADING MANNY....

Frank Z says:

...and the plot thickens. :-)


nah not really. i haven't done any of that stuff that radam says i've done.

anyway back to boxing....people have figured out how to box with pacquiao. circle away from his power left, use feints to keep him jittery, don't let him settle into his rhythm where he can run off combinations, and throw straight punches down the middle. simply evading is not enough, unless it's 2014 and he's lost a good amount of his athletic ability and stamina. for now he'll still walk you down and catch you. for now you still have to keep punches in his face or threaten him with shots to drive him backwards. when he faces punches, he puts on the ear muffs and walks straight backwards if he is not in a firefight standing toe to toe. he still lunges off balance when the target is moving away from him and his chin comes up, since he doesn't plant and turn on his shots with a couple of exceptions (hatton, cotto). now that he has shown he cannot get off as many punches against a target that is fast, elusive, and punches back on timing, he will look much more human than he has before. though really he only looked incredible in 2009 for two fights, against hatton and cotto. some of it's erosion physically, some of it's just opponents having the ability and awareness to box him the right way.

Frank Z says:

...and the plot thickens. :-)


nah no thickening of any plot.... i haven't done those things radam is saying i've done.

But anyway on the boxing.... manny has not KO'd anyone early since he put out hatton who came forward face first with short arms and rigid movement, and this was 3+ years ago. pacquiao has lost some of his timing and reflexes which will become much more visible in about another year or two. he will have trouble against any time of mover for stretches since he does not adjust well to their movement, not since he fought ledwaba in 2001 at least. in that fight he showed better head movement himself and more accurate on balance punching than he has against marquez bradley or mosley of late. can't be surprised he was 11 years younger and had not had the wars with morales and barrea and marquez yet.

Frank Z says:

Radam i'm not sure where you got your info from about me but it's incorrect.

For the thread's discussion, pacman's loss of athletic ability will be more obvious by 2013 or 2014 and he'll have even more trouble with people coming with the right strategy and determination. he'll have to switch up his style if he is to dominate again.

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