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WYLIE OBSERVATIONS: Duane Ford Is Off, Sergio Good Bet Over Chavez

BY Lee Wylie ON June 18, 2012
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Chavez Lee 120612 008aHere are some thoughts I had after watching the second installment of Jim Lampley's "The Fight Game" on Saturday night.

~ Duane Ford mentioned that the old Pacquiao would have finished Bradley in the 4th round -this is completely irrelevant. This has nothing to do with round scoring. If he went further and said Bradley showed good defense in making Pacquiao miss, then that's reasonable, as defense is one of the judging criteria. However, Ford was clearly speaking of Pacquiao's inability to finish Bradley because he thought Pacquiao had lost a step. This is wrong. However, are we not ALL guilty of this? It is hard to empty ones mind and focus entirely on the visual at hand without reflecting on past events.

Let's say Mayweather in his next fight is taking clean shots with his back to the ropes. How long would an official allow him to absorb clean blows before ending it? My answer would be not as many as the same official would have allowed Gatti to take before deciding that he's had enough. Officials should be thinking of nothing but what is taking place in front of them. But, as we all know, this is not always the case. Gatti would receive the benefit of the doubt because of what he did in past fights.

Back to round scoring. Let's say a fighter is dominating the first seven rounds and I mean dominating. Suddenly, he is not as dominant in the eighth. I guarantee the judges would score that for he other fighter. Now, let's say that the events that took place in the eighth round occurred in the first. Do you think the round would be awarded to the same fighter? I think not. Hence, we have comparative rounds when the criteria is changed from ring generalship, defense, clean punching and effective aggression to "well, he did better in that round so I'm going to give it to him."

~ HBO did a good thing by showing round seven of the Pacquiao-Bradley fight again. But they failed to show it in the right context. They turned the sound off, which showed it was a close round. They then should have repeated the round with the full commentary and CompuBox graphic which showed Pacquiao apparently landing 27 punches in the round. A similar event took place in the 11th round too. If you have access to round 11, watch it again with the sound off. Pacquiao -according to CompuBox- landed 21 punches in the round. As the round ends, turn on the sound. You will hear Jim Lampley again claim that it was yet another dominant round for Pacquiao. {I thought Bradley dominated the round}. My point is by looking at the 7th and 11th rounds combined, if you can tell me how Pacquiao landed 48 punches then you are a better man than me because you will have done the judging equivalent of walking on water.

At the end of the day, just as many are claiming the judges made a mistake, so too can CompuBox counters, who are men clicking a button everytime they deem a punch has been landed. Humans, not computers, control CompuBox.

In all honesty, I think that episode of Fight Game pretty much summed up the whole situation, but not in the way they intended. HBO, and in particular, Jim Lampley has an infatuation with Manny Pacquiao. It started with the Clottey fight and continues to this day. Along the way I've heard things like "Boom, bang, that's the hardest jab I've ever seen" and Manny Pacquiao, the citizen of the world."

The mere fact that Lampley held court for 30 minutes on HBO looking for answers when there have been far worse decisions -Lara v Williams and Abril v Rios- speaks volumes. Despite HBO's best efforts, there were no conspiracies. Just a close fight that could have gone either way. I scored it 115-115 even, a draw, with four rounds that could have gone either way.

Again, round seven is as good as any to view again. Without the sound it was a closely contested round, in which I felt Bradley shaded it through workrate. With the full HBO affect, it was a Pacquiao massacre in which, according to the gospel that is CompuBox, Pacquiao landed 27 punches.

The bigger issue in my mind is commentators are becoming narrators for the networks. By painting a picture, they are inadvertently feeding our minds. I remember watching the fight live. The amount of Tweets that were popping up as the fight was happening suggested to me that not everyone was giving their full attention to the fight. Instead, as they were tweeting, they were listening to what was happening.

If this was the radio era, then I agree. By listening to HBO, this would have been the worst decision in boxing history. The reality? This was a close fight that could have gone either way.

If anything, we should be applauding the decision, not condemning it. How many times have close fights ended with the marquee name gaining the decision win? Finally, we have a close fight where the lesser known fighter receives the benefit of the doubt and we cry treason!

Only in boxing!

Also, some thoughts on Julio Cesar Chavez Junior's win over Andy Lee...Junior is gargantuan for the division which, when married with his pressurizing style, makes him nigh on impossible to beat for any middleweight -including Sergio Martinez. In my opinion, one would have to back Chavez up to beat him. His size, ultra-aggression and his ever improving skills are simply too much to contend with on the back foot. As we know, Martinez' style would oblige Chavez by being on the back foot. Chavez would be allowed to fight his usual fight against Martinez. Remember, the last time Martinez tasted true defeat was also to a larger swarming Mexican in Antonio Margarito, who applied constant pressure. Didn't Pavlik's size and forward momentum not also give Sergio problems late in the fight?

Simply put, there is an obvious reason why we have weight divisions. As long as Chavez can healthily make weight and hydrate well over night, he will continue to be a huge obstacle for every smaller opponent he faces. Lee was taller, but essentially, smaller. Martinez -a natural junior middleweight- would have his hands full against someone who could probably make light-heavyweight. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Chavez could even take Martinez' power. THOSE WERE MY INITIAL THOUGHTS...But I rewatched Chavez-Lee. Now I see Chavez being made to order for Martinez. Initially, like everyone else, I was quick to talk of the 'new' Chavez. I still think his size is problematic, but Martinez is a full level and then some above Lee. His stamina is also vastly superior to Lee's. This could look a lot like Pacquiao-Hatton! Chavez -unlike his father- does not move his head.

Comment on this article

deepwater says:

are people really stupid enough to believe duane fords deceptive nonsense. he is corrupt. over a billion dollars was transfered on account of this criminal. duane ford is talking basketball when its 4 things. effective agression,clean punches,defense, ring generalship. any deviation from those for things is deceptive fraud that only gullible people would accept. an apple is an apple. an apple can not be an apple and an orange at the same time. please boycott all of vegas boxing. support local shows and never ever buy as pay per view again.

Radam G says:

That MIRAGE that Team Bradley bought outta da Cali desert was in full effect. Of course along with this U.S. national jingoism and straight-up latent hatred of foreigners, especially successful "Asians making BIG MONEY to take home to their countries." C'mon! FESS UP! The Pac-hate is now extreme. And all the haters are glad that a judge from a black legion society and one with "Jungle Fever," ripped-off Da Manny in the astounding way of the "Ugly American."

At LEAST the Sin City stanks, scammers, scumsuckas and ___ ___ ____ are admitting to syet on and off the record, and are saying that nothing is going to happen about the verdict. And I'm down with people who admit to their hatred and short comings. Those types who see fairness and closeness when there is none are __ ___ ___. These are the same Ebonicans and Ivorians who will tell you that O.J. Simpson and Robert Blake were innocent of killing their wives because that is what a jury declared. And these muthasuckas are quick to say that Commissary Lil Floyd Mayweather JunJun is being treated vicious and inhumane. WOW! Reatity Distortion is amazing. But Media manipulation is ____ ____ _____! Holla!

MisterLee says:

Hello! Well, first I'd like to congratulate JCC Jr. for fighting a good and hard fight. It was very entertaining. Okay, on to the meat!

1.) JCC Jr. is still pretty one dimensional. He can move around agst Manfredo, and he can pressure some against Andy Lee, but we talkin' Andy Lee, ANDY LEE! He can walk thru a contender or fringe contender.

2.) I'd like to join everyone and being hyped up about JCC Jr., especially after a good win, but on a closer look I still think he's slow as crap. He throws big and wide punches and leaves himself open afterward or off balance.

3.) His footwork is slow, plodding and god-awful. I think the only person he could catch is Margarito! Maybe Angulo with a flu! Martinez will light him up on that alone, and JCC Jr. will never get him stuck on the ropes even if he is 220 lbs. that night!

4.) JCC Jr.'s large size is overrated. Yes, he can walk through some punches, his punches have a little more weight, and he can be rugged, but it still remains his hands and feet are slow as crap, his defense is marginal, and I don't know if he could adjust to a true elite opponent like Sergio Martinez.

5.) His chin is world class. It got dinged and it never flinched.

6.) Infighting - It's alright, not great. There are a lot of lulls in his infighting because he needs time to get set, find openings, and get a rhythm. Martinez would be gone by the time he throws, or after 1-2 shots. He goes pretty heavy to the body, but only agst someone who will sit on the ropes agst him.

7.) JCC Jr. seems to get slower, and sloppier the more he opens up, that's not good! A good pressure fighter usually gets cooking as the rounds go on like Joe Frazier or a focused Brandon Rios.

8.) JCC Jr. vs. Canelo? Based on what I've seen so far I'd have to go with the Cinna-bum. Cinnbum seems to have better fundamentals, fights a little cleaner, have better defense, more polish, crisper punches, more and better combinations, and more dimensions. There is the size factor, which could play some factor, but I'd stick pick Canelo anyway. That would be a fun fight!

That's about it. Athletically and skill wise I just don't see what's so special about JCC Jr.,to be blunt, ANYTHING special about JCC Jr.! Okay, I did like how he was about to keep his right glove up to block Andy Lee's right hooks, that's about it. See ya!

brownsugar says:

Hello! Well, first I'd like to congratulate JCC Jr. for fighting a good and hard fight. It was very entertaining. Okay, on to the meat!

1.) JCC Jr. is still pretty one dimensional. He can move around agst Manfredo, and he can pressure some against Andy Lee, but we talkin' Andy Lee, ANDY LEE! He can walk thru a contender or fringe contender.

2.) I'd like to join everyone and being hyped up about JCC Jr., especially after a good win, but on a closer look I still think he's slow as crap. He throws big and wide punches and leaves himself open afterward or off balance.

3.) His footwork is slow, plodding and god-awful. I think the only person he could catch is Margarito! Maybe Angulo with a flu! Martinez will light him up on that alone, and JCC Jr. will never get him stuck on the ropes even if he is 220 lbs. that night!

4.) JCC Jr.'s large size is overrated. Yes, he can walk through some punches, his punches have a little more weight, and he can be rugged, but it still remains his hands and feet are slow as crap, his defense is marginal, and I don't know if he could adjust to a true elite opponent like Sergio Martinez.

5.) His chin is world class. It got dinged and it never flinched.

6.) Infighting - It's alright, not great. There are a lot of lulls in his infighting because he needs time to get set, find openings, and get a rhythm. Martinez would be gone by the time he throws, or after 1-2 shots. He goes pretty heavy to the body, but only agst someone who will sit on the ropes agst him.

7.) JCC Jr. seems to get slower, and sloppier the more he opens up, that's not good! A good pressure fighter usually gets cooking as the rounds go on like Joe Frazier or a focused Brandon Rios.

8.) JCC Jr. vs. Canelo? Based on what I've seen so far I'd have to go with the Cinna-bum. Cinnbum seems to have better fundamentals, fights a little cleaner, have better defense, more polish, crisper punches, more and better combinations, and more dimensions. There is the size factor, which could play some factor, but I'd stick pick Canelo anyway. That would be a fun fight!

That's about it. Athletically and skill wise I just don't see what's so special about JCC Jr.,to be blunt, ANYTHING special about JCC Jr.! Okay, I did like how he was about to keep his right glove up to block Andy Lee's right hooks, that's about it. See ya!


Possibly the most entertaining post I've read all month...and not far from at all from reality.

Wow I thought I was one of the half dozen people here that noticed how over the top Lampley gets when commentating for certain fighters, and he always gets at least one of his co-commentators to go along with him for the merry ride. I try to over look him because he's just a zealous fan. But hearing him suggest that Bradley was holding (on one occasion) when it was Pac had Bradley's arm firmly clapped underneath his right arm makes me want to say ....... " Seriously dude, stop putting so much nutmeg in your oatmeal.

Enjoyed the article...didn't see a draw but interesting nonetheless.

TotoyBato says:

Duane Ford, NSAC et al are just WRONG, to them Boxing is a circus not a sport. JCC jr. will be too big and too tough for Sergio.

BHarper85 says:

Wow. To score the fight 115-115 is ridiculous. It wasn't a close fight, period. I try to see the other side of all issues, whether they're political, religious, boxing, whatever. But after seeing the fight twice, I have to say that the only two ways that anyone could say that Pacquiao could've not won the fight is that they're either stupid or biased in one way or another. In this case, I'd say it's bias. But it's still just wrong, plain and simple.

Radam G says:

With all this so-called reality, Sergio Martinez is STILL GONNA GET HIS ARSE KAYOED by a ___ ___ ___ ___ and everything else that one may want to call SOAL JCJ. Martinez is a long-in-da-tooth never was. He's benefitted by being in the squared jungle at the right time against the right SUPERHYPES and a drunk!

SOAL JCJ is no superhype nor terrible drunk and will be in an easy, short fight against a loud-mouthed ZERO boxing elder, who is not remindful of a late, great aged "Old Mongoose" Archie Moore, or a slicky-slick, old B-Hoppy and/or an old [Rev.] Big George Foreman.

Martinez's run as a lucky amateurish-like fighting pro is coming to a quick end in a dance with SOAL JCJ. Holla!

MisterLee says:

Thanks B-sug! That's a huge compliment!

Carmine Cas says:

I think JCC plays right into Sergio's style and get's knocked out. It'll be a good fight but that spoiled little boracho is going to need more than an inside game to beat Maravilla. And I'm glad mayweather and pacquiao finally proved themselves against worthy competition this year. Yes I'm new but I've been following this site for over a year now......

MisterLee says:

Welcome!

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