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The Measure of a Man: Floyd’s Great, Pacquiao Is Greater

BY Kelsey McCarson ON May 09, 2012
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Pacquiao opens camp 120507 008aLast Saturday, as I watched Floyd Mayweather dig down deeper than I’d ever seen before to outlast the hard-charging and brave Miguel Cotto, I could not help but come away impressed. Going into the championship rounds with a bloody nose and, most assuredly, in a close contest, Mayweather was as advertised—money. He blanked Cotto over the final three rounds on my scorecard and even had the proud champion holding on for dear life in the twelfth.It was truly a virtuoso performance from a brilliant fighter I have long admired as the best in the sport.

But then it hit me. Floyd Mayweather is an all-time great, but Manny Pacquiao is an all-time greater.

It’s been an interesting debate for fight fans through the years, and it’s one I’ve long sided on with those in Mayweather’s corner. And with so much time between boxing’s big events, what else is there to do really?Think about it: NFL fans get games every week. MLB fans get entire series of games all week long. The NBA plays what seems like every other day. Then, at the end of their seasons they get a championship game—a coup de grace.


Meanwhile, boxing fans wait around all year long just for big enough fights to get excited about, and even longer for Super Bowl-type events that never seem to materialize. I’m looking at you, Pacquiao vs. Mayweather.

But fret not, friends, because as boxing fans we are used to it. We accept our boxing broken, as one of our reader contest winners recently put it, and so the debate rages on even though the fight may never actually materialize.

But that’s okay. Heck, how many boxing message boards would be shut down if there were a moratorium on things like whether Joe Louis was greater than Muhammad Ali, or whether Ray Leonard could defeat Ray Robinson?

Have no fear: Mayweather versus Pacquiao will live on forever even if the fight never actually happens.

Boxing isn’t statistics-run-amok the way other sports, particularly baseball, can be. Sure, our historians can research data with the best of them, but nothing tells the story of a fighter’s greatness quite like the combined measure our heads and hearts give us.

And mine’s telling me Manny Pacquiao should go down in history ranked ahead of Floyd Mayweather.

A good place to start this type of examination is by looking at how the fighters fared against common opponents. Our own Lee Wylie did some comparative analysis of this information just this week.

Suddenly, it's Manny Pacquiao who now appears to be in the driving seat. A quick glance at their respective results against common opponents suggests this;

Pacquiao TKO 8 De La Hoya        Mayweather  SD De La Hoya

Pacquiao TKO 2 Hatton                Mayweather TKO 10 Hatton

Pacquiao TKO 12 Cotto               Mayweather  UD Cotto

Pacquiao  UD Mosley                  Mayweather  UD Mosley *

Pacquiao  UD/SD/D Marquez     Mayweather  UD Marquez

* Pacquiao was more dominant over Mosley than Mayweather was. Unlike Mayweather, Pacquiao scored a knockdown and was never hurt himself.

Really, the only thing Mayweather has done better than Pacquiao against common opponents has been his 2009 decision win over Marquez. While Pacquiao’s battles with Marquez have all been fiercely contested, Mayweather pitched a virtual shut-out in his lone encounter with the great champion.Still, even his shining moment over what Pacquiao did was marred by his refusal to make the contracted catch-weight of 144 pounds. Readers will recall that Marquez had never before fought above 135 pounds and had fought at 130 pounds as recently as the previous year. Meanwhile, Mayweather had campaigned at 140 pounds or higher since 2004, so his coming into the fight at 146 pounds (four pounds over the limit) can’t be easily dismissed.

Of course, boxing analysis isn’t as easy as common opponents. Just because fighter A beats fighter B and fighter B beats fighter C, well it pretty much never means that fighter A will certainly beat fighter C. Boxing doesn’t like math.

There’s more to it than that. As my colleague Bart Barry noted recently from ringside in San Antonio, when was the last time Mayweather came into a fight the underdog and was able to come out the winner? Has Mayweather ever been the underdog? Has he ever tested himself beyond his comfort zone?

Manny Pacquiao sure has. Heck, the first time anyone but the hardest of the hardcore boxing fan saw the guy fight was when he obliterated Marco Antonio Barrera in 2003. His wars with Barrera, Erik Morales and Juan Manuel Marquez alone give him wins over more fierce competitors than anyone Mayweather has every fought, and raise your hand if you thought Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton were just too big for the Filipino fighter who had started his career at a mere 106 pounds. Am I the only one?

Still, none of that data makes the case entirely. After all, our heads can only do so much for us. We’re boxing fans. So while all that remains to be fact, and even though Mayweather may be a prohibitive favorite over Pacquiao should they ever meet, none of it really gives the answer. Our hearts will tell the tale instead.

Manny Pacquiao’s ferocity inside the ring is magnified by his love for the sport. He seems to revel in fighting. He loves it. He even appears to enjoy getting hit. When the bell rings, Manny Pacquiao is a warrior. Outside the ring, his boyish charm and world class charisma have attracted fans to the sport that otherwise might not be here. His lasting impact on the sport is sure to go down among the elite. He’ll be mentioned in the same breath as other fighters that transcended the sport—Tyson, Ali, Leonard—guys your friends that aren’t boxing fans knew of then and still know now.

In the end, though, all of this is over-complicating something atrociously as easy as this: if both of them were to end their careers today, Manny Pacquiao’s legacy would be secure without ever fighting again. Like it or not, Manny has done more than just about any other fighter ever. He’s won titles in seven different weight classes, he came out the victor in one of boxing’s greatest four man round robins ever, and with his aggressive style and rapid fire approach he’s given fight fans the kinds of thrills and spills that won’t been soon forgotten. Meanwhile, Mayweather, for all his technical brilliance and otherworldly ability, would leave many of us, even some of his biggest fans, bewildered by what might have been had he taken on more challenges and gone after bigger fights.

Mayweather told the media after his brilliant win over Cotto that he was 80/20 on retiring this year. If that’s the case and fight fans never get the fight they’ve longed for, then the odds that boxing historians look more favorably on Pacquiao than Mayweather are even higher, and the odds that this boxing historian does so is about 99/1.

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Comment on this article

Radam G says:

I agree! Money May is GREAT! Da Manny is not only GREATER, but GREATEST! He'd kayo Money May EARLY! @The Roast, how am I doing. Da Manny is going to kayo the Cali Cranium Crusher's arse in four rounds or less. You can take that to the HOUZE! Holla!

saguirre760 says:

styles make fights and the only opponent Floyd has looked better in was against the then LW JMM. When Manny fought him they were at the same weight class except for the 3rd bout. All the catchweight propaganda is BS; if other fighters WEREN'T confident in fighting Manny then they would have never agreed. Manny beat the crap out of Cotto 3 years ago! Mayweather had a tough fight with Cotto less than a week ago!

the Roast says:

Doing great RG, wave those Manny pom poms, I like you in that short skirt. You forgot the double fudge part. If you are setting the over/under at four I'll take the over.

CPX says:

Well said old boy, this retirement talk is stupid.. He's spooked by Da Manny as Radam calls him

amayseng says:

pac beat a better and younger cotto like a drum three years ago. floyd struggled greatly with cotto last week although i had him winning 7 rounds....

at 35 floyd will have too much trouble with pacs machine gun offense in and out, not standing there like the statue cotto waiting to catch punches off his gloves and to be held all night long like floyd did..

before this fight floyd said he wants to fight 5 more times.. after the fight he said a past prime and war torn cotto was his HARDEST FIGHT and he is thinking retirement.

i respect floyd for being so good at 35 but his time is up and pac will spank his butt like a six year old girl

ultimoshogun says:

I agree Pacquiao's track record is more impressive, but they're both equally great in my book.

The Good Doctor says:

Like the article. I have always felt like Floyd has exceptional skill and talent however that has been more derived from the eye test more that measuring it against big time competition. I have always been lukewarm on Floyd's fight record. Floyd has not faced a good, prime, at their weight fighter since Chico in 2001. That fact also becomes much more glaring when you look at who he fought versus who was available. I do feel that Pac's resume is stronger than Floyd's, however I think he beats Pacquiao relatively easily.

dino da vinci says:

Like the article. I have always felt like Floyd has exceptional skill and talent however that has been more derived from the eye test more that measuring it against big time competition. I have always been lukewarm on Floyd's fight record. Floyd has not faced a good, prime, at their weight fighter since Chico in 2001. That fact also becomes much more glaring when you look at who he fought versus who was available. I do feel that Pac's resume is stronger than Floyd's, however I think he beats Pacquiao relatively easily.


If you take the time to read enough posts, you catch one of these:

Perfect Post.

amayseng says:

Like the article. I have always felt like Floyd has exceptional skill and talent however that has been more derived from the eye test more that measuring it against big time competition. I have always been lukewarm on Floyd's fight record. Floyd has not faced a good, prime, at their weight fighter since Chico in 2001. That fact also becomes much more glaring when you look at who he fought versus who was available. I do feel that Pac's resume is stronger than Floyd's, however I think he beats Pacquiao relatively easily.


floyd struggled to his alleged toughest fight of his career from a past prime war torn cotto losing 5 rounds arguably to cotto.

what makes you think at 35 floyd beats pac easily? what does he do that will make pac easy work?

deepwater says:

just fight already!!!!!!!!!!! I dont care who wins i just want a good fight and I want to see these two dig deep.

The Good Doctor says:

floyd struggled to his alleged toughest fight of his career from a past prime war torn cotto losing 5 rounds arguably to cotto.

what makes you think at 35 floyd beats pac easily? what does he do that will make pac easy work?


Just my humble opinion, but here are my reasons:

#1. Manny has never faced a combination of a fighter of Floyd's caliber. What I mean by this is someone who is just as strong, just as fast, and longer than Pacquiao. In addition, he's fighting someone with those attributes who has great stamina and makes you work really hard for every punch.

#2 Alot of people say that Cotto showed a plan to beat Floyd. Good jab, slight rough-housing, body work, selective attacks, and tight defense. I agree with that and agree Pac can do all of that with the exception of the tight defense. However, people seem to forget that all of that is aided by the fact that on fight night Cotto was close to being a super middleweight. Assuming safely that Floyd fights Pac at 147, their is significant evidence to believe that Pac could be outweighed by as much as 10lbs or 7 to 8 percent of his body weight. With that differential it will be hard for Manny to execute what has been shown to be the best way to get to Floyd (Cotto, ODH, Castillo)

#3 I think Floyd learned alot in that fight with Cotto. He thought he could box with Cotto, lay on the ropes, and muscle him around like he does a lot of fighters. Cotto proved him wrong and he now carries that knowledge with him for a fight with Pac. There is no way he does that against Pac and if he does, he will get eaten up, maybe by KO. I think against Pac, Floyd dances more than Usher and wins by simple pot shots.

Like I said before, just my thoughts. I am interested in your take though. Tell me why you see differently. Also, as a quick disclaimer, I am a Cotto fan. I am not a hater or lover of Pac or Floyd so I don't have a bias that we often see skewing people's opinions of those guys.

amayseng says:

Just my humble opinion, but here are my reasons:

#1. Manny has never faced a combination of a fighter of Floyd's caliber. What I mean by this is someone who is just as strong, just as fast, and longer than Pacquiao. In addition, he's fighting someone with those attributes who has great stamina and makes you work really hard for every punch.

#2 Alot of people say that Cotto showed a plan to beat Floyd. Good jab, slight rough-housing, body work, selective attacks, and tight defense. I agree with that and agree Pac can do all of that with the exception of the tight defense. However, people seem to forget that all of that is aided by the fact that on fight night Cotto was close to being a super middleweight. Assuming safely that Floyd fights Pac at 147, their is significant evidence to believe that Pac could be outweighed by as much as 10lbs or 7 to 8 percent of his body weight. With that differential it will be hard for Manny to execute what has been shown to be the best way to get to Floyd (Cotto, ODH, Castillo)

#3 I think Floyd learned alot in that fight with Cotto. He thought he could box with Cotto, lay on the ropes, and muscle him around like he does a lot of fighters. Cotto proved him wrong and he now carries that knowledge with him for a fight with Pac. There is no way he does that against Pac and if he does, he will get eaten up, maybe by KO. I think against Pac, Floyd dances more than Usher and wins by simple pot shots.

Like I said before, just my thoughts. I am interested in your take though. Tell me why you see differently. Also, as a quick disclaimer, I am a Cotto fan. I am not a hater or lover of Pac or Floyd so I don't have a bias that we often see skewing people's opinions of those guys.


thanks for answering, i was curious. i will rebut.

1 pac has recently fought mosley and cotto and margarito who are all longer and taller and stronger than pac is and he had no problems because he is not a lay on you on the inside fighter.... he had no trouble with their sizes. also, pac is faster than mayweather at this stage, faster hands, faster feet, better agility and better power, also pac uses angles floyd cant use anymore. pac knows how to mix up his power and speed on his punches to keep his opponents guessing and to preserve energy. he never gasses out, he like floyd knows how to properly pace himself...

2. cottos strategy is for cotto, a strong tough boxer fighter who fights nothing like pacman. also cottos defense is average at best, he stands still gloves on ears and blocks and accepts punches...pacman uses his feet in and out for defense. cotto doesnt bob and weave, poor head movement, pac moves and is more fluid and agile. at 147 it wont matter, floyd is not a fighter who mauls and pounds you, so the weight difference wont matter against pacman. pac will not have to deal with him and floyd laying on eachother and wrestling and getting worn down. pac will be in and out with his machine gun offense and wont be standing there flat footed like cotto to be grabbed and held like floyd did to cotto.

3. floyds offense is predicated upon his defense and his pot shotting.. if he wants to lean on the ropes he will get easily out worked even if pac doesnt stun him or knock him out pac will throw 10 punch combos and floyd will try to roll and counter with 1 or 2, so pac will win the scoring battle... if floyd wants to pot shot he wont be able to against pac successfully due to pacs faster hands and feet and ability to counter with combinations not single shots...out worked once again... if floyd wants to run and box he still gets outworked..

at 35 floyd does not have one physical advantage,

3 years ago i pick floyd to win, but today i pick pacman...

The Good Doctor says:

thanks for answering, i was curious. i will rebut.

1 pac has recently fought mosley and cotto and margarito who are all longer and taller and stronger than pac is and he had no problems because he is not a lay on you on the inside fighter.... he had no trouble with their sizes. also, pac is faster than mayweather at this stage, faster hands, faster feet, better agility and better power, also pac uses angles floyd cant use anymore. pac knows how to mix up his power and speed on his punches to keep his opponents guessing and to preserve energy. he never gasses out, he like floyd knows how to properly pace himself...

2. cottos strategy is for cotto, a strong tough boxer fighter who fights nothing like pacman. also cottos defense is average at best, he stands still gloves on ears and blocks and accepts punches...pacman uses his feet in and out for defense. cotto doesnt bob and weave, poor head movement, pac moves and is more fluid and agile. at 147 it wont matter, floyd is not a fighter who mauls and pounds you, so the weight difference wont matter against pacman. pac will not have to deal with him and floyd laying on eachother and wrestling and getting worn down. pac will be in and out with his machine gun offense and wont be standing there flat footed like cotto to be grabbed and held like floyd did to cotto.

3. floyds offense is predicated upon his defense and his pot shotting.. if he wants to lean on the ropes he will get easily out worked even if pac doesnt stun him or knock him out pac will throw 10 punch combos and floyd will try to roll and counter with 1 or 2, so pac will win the scoring battle... if floyd wants to pot shot he wont be able to against pac successfully due to pacs faster hands and feet and ability to counter with combinations not single shots...out worked once again... if floyd wants to run and box he still gets outworked..

at 35 floyd does not have one physical advantage,

3 years ago i pick floyd to win, but today i pick pacman...



Although I don't necessarily see it your way, I cannot knock your reasoning. The fact that two people who appear to understand the sport can see two completely different outcomes is all the more reason they need to fight.

amayseng says:

agreed. anything can happen. looking at their abilities at this stage this is what i see. for all i know floyd could come out and stop manny in his tracks all night with a jab and left hook. the fight needs to happen either way, for boxings sake

Real Talk says:

Cotto was going to survive 12 with Pacman if the ref would've let him finish. That Cotto was weight drained, the Cotto that fought Floyd was full power and riding a winning streak. Much different and the same thing with Oscar. A lot of people I know favor Pac over Floyd and vice versa. Floyd dominated boxing for almost 2 decades but Pac has a better resume of HOF candidates so to each his own. Both are great but boxing is some trash because back in the 80's this fight would've been happen if it was Duran, Hearns, Haglker and Leonard. If we had more fighters like Cotto who takes al comers boxing would be in much better shape. Cotto/ Mayweather 2 at the garden anyone. Dueces

Real Talk says:

just fight already!!!!!!!!!!! I dont care who wins i just want a good fight and I want to see these two dig deep.
Dig it

ardz0221 says:

Well, Mr. Kelsey McCarson, Pacquiao had not just won 7 titles in as many weight classes but 8.

"B" says:

I hate to say that a writer does not know whats he/she is talking about so i will be nice and simply say that you are a little off in your comparison of there fights against the same apponents. First of all any objective fan can easily see that a fighter is not exactly the same on every night. Now this is all speculation but come on...oscar at 147. Anybody who knows boxing knows that was not an Oscar De La Hoya who came to win the night he fought manny. And Floyd fought Ricky Hatton when he was still and beast...undefeated and in Manchester. And Cotto well...I dont think he was ever the same after that first Margarito fight. And if anyone watched the cotto fight you will see that Cotto was actually outboxing Manny but he was a battered man that night. Not to mention his corner was horrible. And back to Oscar vs Floyd....they fought at 154 and Oscar was in shape and mentally came ready. shane was pathetic in the manny fight. Any average fighter could have beat Shane that night. i am not taking credit away from Manny but this writer is not looking at the full set of facts

MisterLee says:

I actually feel while Floyd has stayed about the same, plus or minus a few adjustments (more volume, sitting on his punches more, stalking more and moving less), and other fighters have improved, and with each fight the blue print to beating Floyd is improving (Oscar's flurry on the ropes tactics worked for Cotto, and Oscar's strong left jab worked, Ortiz's hitting anthing: elbows, shoulders, arms, and dome also worked some, Cotto blocked A LOT of left hooks and right crosses, Ortiz neutralized much of Floyd's left hand by effectively slipping and bobbing). Manny's learning curve has slowed down immensely too due to his politician schedule and celebrity schedule. These two athletes are no longer hungry, and no longer evolving. I wouldn't be surprised if they show up just to get a paycheck. Pacquiao 2008-2009 at welterweight was some of his most dangerous years, and 2010 was the last effect of his former full time schedule.

Roli Roxas says:

...and the truth is Manny Pacquiao was proclaimed by people as one of the greatest where Floyd Mayweather was proclaimed by himself as the greatest.
Conclusion:
The Measure of a Man will always prevail in the end of time.

Radam G says:

Cut the crap, B. On nobody in boxing with a brain can you run that weak rap. Fighters fight -- prime or not! And fanfaronades, as you, continue to try to justify arse thrashings. If you stay long, you play wrong. That is just the flow of the boxing game, so nobody needs to continously hear a sad-arse song. Holla!

gpike says:

This is an emotional article that lacks balance. Maybe Manny is nicer than Floyd and is more game to slug it out, but in terms of who's a better boxer? Floyd, hands down. Floyd is among the greatest boxers of all time and perhaps the greatest pure boxer of all time. Anybody who knows boxing knows Manny has been the beneficiary of great match-making. De La Hoya, Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Hatton were all picked because they had a better than good chance of losing to Manny. His defeat of Cotto certainly looked impressive, but recall that it was at a weight Manny, not Cotto was comfortable with and psychologically Cotto came in doubting himself. He came in the other night believing in himself and put on an amazing show. Against JMM, Manny has looked by turns average, beatable but also competitive. He's a fighter; Floyd's a boxer. When it's finished, Manny will be the crowd-pleaser and Floyd will be considered the better boxer. And if the two were to fight, I still think Floyd would win pretty easily. I have this feeling Manny is slipping-his last three fights have suggested he's slowing down as well as getting more predictable.

Grimm says:

Anybody who knows boxing knows Manny has been the beneficiary of great match-making. De La Hoya, Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Hatton were all picked because they had a better than good chance of losing to Manny.


Really? Nevermind.

Well. Debating on who would beat who is one thing, as debating who's the greater is a different story. And while Money sure is one good boxer, the literal meaning of the word boxer is just a part of the issue.

Instead of comparing the results against common opponents (in which round did X knock out Y, whereas Z only won on points, etc), lets see who fares best in the following criterias -

Taking on all comers: well, Pac can be said to have chewed on some easier paydays of lately, but in general, no one could really argue that he wins this one.

Beating those comers decisively: pretty even, as both men normally have done a good job in dominating their opponents in their own fashion.

Moving peoples heart around the globe: well hell...do we have a crushing victory in this one? In fact, even little kids in this cold, dark country of mine nods when I whisper the word "Pa-ki-aaao", but haven't got a clue of who Mayweather is. Admittedly, this criteria in itself doesn't say much - but what it reflects says a thousand things of Pacs impact on the world, far beyond the duckpond of boxing. That is, in itself, a measurement of greatness.

Serious conclusion, though: Greatness is a relative thing, in the eyes of the beholders. In my book, both men are great practitioners of the greatest sport in the world. I really couldn't care less about who wins the internet-fans-war-of-worlds-on-whos-the-best, as long as they don't fight - and until they do, I'll continue watch them fight whomever they fight, since I'm a sucker for punches thrown with skill and bad intentions. (But for the record - if they were to fight: Pac would win. I bet one of my arms on it. The marriage between the back left hand and the movement is simply born to dethrone that partnership between the philly shell and the Mayweather version of Cuban foot positioning.)

dino da vinci says:

Really? Nevermind.

Well. Debating on who would beat who is one thing, as debating who's the greater is a different story. And while Money sure is one good boxer, the literal meaning of the word boxer is just a part of the issue.

Instead of comparing the results against common opponents (in which round did X knock out Y, whereas Z only won on points, etc), lets see who fares best in the following criterias -

Taking on all comers: well, Pac can be said to have chewed on some easier paydays of lately, but in general, no one could really argue that he wins this one.

Beating those comers decisively: pretty even, as both men normally have done a good job in dominating their opponents in their own fashion.

Moving peoples heart around the globe: well hell...do we have a crushing victory in this one? In fact, even little kids in this cold, dark country of mine nods when I whisper the word "Pa-ki-aaao", but haven't got a clue of who Mayweather is. Admittedly, this criteria in itself doesn't say much - but what it reflects says a thousand things of Pacs impact on the world, far beyond the duckpond of boxing. That is, in itself, a measurement of greatness.

Serious conclusion, though: Greatness is a relative thing, in the eyes of the beholders. In my book, both men are great practitioners of the greatest sport in the world. I really couldn't care less about who wins the internet-fans-war-of-worlds-on-whos-the-best, as long as they don't fight - and until they do, I'll continue watch them fight whomever they fight, since I'm a sucker for punches thrown with skill and bad intentions. (But for the record - if they were to fight: Pac would win. I bet one of my arms on it. The marriage between the back left hand and the movement is simply born to dethrone that partnership between the philly shell and the Mayweather version of Cuban foot positioning.)


Don't do it man! I'm relatively sure no one wants to see a one-armed Grimm. Crazy bet to make going into a fight where you don't even have the favorite. Not saying the Pacster couldn't find a way to win this, but if you lose, TSS forum goers suffer as we'll only get half as many of your posts, or they'll only be half as long.

brownsugar says:

Great Post Grim, (and Dino),... Spoken like true boxing fans... and not like obsessive-compulsive hero-worshippers living living their lives vicariously thru the lives of the athletes they admire. I wish the bulk of the boxing community could be so objective and at ease.... and while I may disagree,.. you points make for a firm but bloodless debate...... the kind that lets you sleep good at night. awesome.....

Radam G says:

The measure of a man is ____ ____ ____ ____ ____! Boxing is like a natural banana. It will never be straight -- oh crooked SOB! It will cause the cool and the cruel to talkee talk dat syet, act like the knuckleheaded and knuckle-dragging primates that we are, and we will continously go ape syet and want to control every iota of da game. But that will never be. That squared jungle is like a rain forrest. You never know what beast that nature will release. The myths, the mystic and madness are many. The truths are few. And they drop like raindew. Forget about a storm ever coming and cleaning up how anybody thinks -- fan, fanfaronade, flunkie, floozie, faker, fader or foe -- in boxing.

Da game is the way it is meant to be. Sweet chaos and cluttering bullsh*t! Love it or hate it. And move on. Because you will never stop complaining and you will never let the door hit ya,' where da Good Lord splitted ya!" Holla!

undisputed34 says:

Whats up everyone...been a while since i posted, but the last time i did, i predicted that Money would spank Cotto like The Good Doctor would spank a newborn baby. Though i had the right man winning, i was pleasantly surprised by what cotto brought in the ring with him that night and liken him once again to Tommy Hearns. Truly a talented and great fighter, with all the right tools but just enough vulnerabilities to put him at a disadvantage when in the ring with the other greats of this era.

If i can chime in on The Good Doctor and Amaysengs convo, i think that if the fight were to happen today despite his tougher than expected victory over cotto, i think it would be a clear cut victory for May in that Pacman will be easier to time and thus catch cleaner than cotto was.

That may sound ridiculous, but hear me out. There is no contesting the speed differential between pacman and cotto, but Floyd's game is largely dependent on timing amongst other things, and while Pacmans handspeed and angles can be baffling to most opponents, his footwork and the rythym in which he darts in and out is easier to anticipate. Cotto's physical strength nullified Mayweather's uncanny ability to slip and counter in the middle of the ring by forcing him to the ropes and once there, showed that a fighter who throws in combination and commits can find some success against floyd. Against Manny, i dont see floyd being forced to the ropes while trying to slip in the occasional counter amidst the flurries of punches pacman is sure to throw. I see floyd timing pacmans advances and meeting them with the straight right-left hook combo before stepping out of range. If that happens, i can see pacman, being the ultra aggressive fighter he is, looking to answer with more speed and more aggression which i think plays to floyds strengths.

Cotto, in my opinion, did everything offensively he could to win the fight against May but it was his defensive lapses that told the tale. He pretty much moved Floyd wherever he wanted him when he was being offensive minded yet when he got tired, he seemed to just cover up and stand in range waiting for Floyd's response. His physical strength is what Floyd ultimately had to adjust to and Manny, while by no means weak, is not physically strong enough to bull floyd in this way. Manny loves to fight, and between his warriors spirit and wanting to give the fans a good fight, i dont think he has the patience to wait on floyd.

So in conclusion, manny does what every other Floyd opponent does and POSSIBLY gets what every Floyd opponent has gotten: picked apart on the way in.

dino da vinci says:

@ Brown Sugar: Thank You. @gpike: What's your score in the MP vs. JMM trilogy? @undisputed: You have a great opinion. How did that come about?

winters999 says:

its funny how this article doesn't take into account all the factors when looking at "common" opponents. pacman suckered de la hoya and cotto into fighting him at a 144 pound catch weight which drained both of them. mayweather on the other hand fought both at 154 which was the weight both of those fighters were accustomed to. moreover, cotto was recently coming off the plaster of paris beating given to him by margarito. floyd was the first to expose hatton's glass chin. and floyd pitched a shutout on juan manuel marquez coming off and 18 month layoff. and this is the same jmm that many feel won 2 of the 3 fights with pacman.

Radam G says:

Un34, you will always be free to talk the same syet that many of the old, bold nuthuggers of Sugar Ray Robinson talked. I was down in San Diego all this weekend, and these four ex-boxers in their 80s and 90s were spittin' how the Sugarman would have cut up middleweights, Archie "The Old Mongoose" Moore, The Alabama Kid, Kid Cocoa, Jack Chase, Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley. Yup! RIGHT! Myths and coulda and woulda will always be up inside the cranium in the haters' delusional brains. SRR ducked the "Black Murder Row," plainly and simply. Nothing ever changes but the bullsyeters.

Different era, different muthasuckas and same old bullsh*tology about what the ducker of every fighter and his cousin coulda and woulda done to all the pugilists who his slick in da brain -- not in the courage and skills -- arse ducked. Money May is as smart as the late, great Sugar Ray Robinson was in creating optical illusions about his ducking. I love Money May's using an 80-year-old white Jew as the excuse for ducking Da Manny -- the one-man Pinoy Murder Row. At least Money May is original for blaming it on a Jew, because for ages Jews have been blame for everything under the sun and over dat bytch too. Holla!

brownsugar says:

@Winter999, I've been saying that for years... glad to know it's not just my imagination....spot on.

@Undisputed34 very well conceived comments. You touched on some great nuances between the 2... hopefully they can get it done someday.

undisputed34 says:

@ Dino..That's what I saw from watching the fight the second time...the more I watch it, the more vulnerabilities I see in Floyd, but I'm trying to keep it in perspective with how much stronger and bigger cotto was at his natural weight. I've been in with a few heavyweights that I've been much quicker than but once they landed a stiff jab to the chest/shoulder, it knocked me off my rhythm or froze me long enough to get off a couple more punches. I also found that if I allowed them to rush me and walk me to the ropes, I had to get in the trenches with them to keep them off. This is what I saw happening to Floyd all night long and if cotto fought bell to bell instead of in spurts, or he ties up after he lets his hands go the way shane did against margarito,he gets the W. I had the fight scored 115-113 for Floyd..


I see Floyd looking better against PAC because I think Floyd is more familiar with facing speed than he is to being clearly outmuscled. Back at his normal weight, and with PAC likely to come in slightly lighter than him, I think he feels better matching mannys speed against his timing. I may have to revisit this after manny and Timothy's fight though. We all know that manny will let his hands go, but the telling factor will be how Floyd deals with mannys power.

@ radam...I missed you too lol...

@ B-sug...thanks for the compliments bro...just trying to keep up with you, mort, radam, ultimo, mr lee...and all the rest that are too many to name who consistently drop the knowledge. I hope they get it on too, after skimming through the playoffs I realize boxing is the only sport I have the patience to watch...

Travdog says:

Silly article.

Ali and Foreman fought common opponents. Foreman crushed fighters that Ali struggled with. When they fought Ali knocked him out.

Mayweather's prowess in the game allowed him to be the favorite in every fight. If he fought Pacman he would be the favorite yet again. Let's go down the list of fighters Mayweather supposedly ducked and let's see who would have been favored against him let's start all the way back.

Casamayor
Freitas
Steve Johnston
Spadafora
Tsyzu
Hatton at 140
Vivian Harris
Paul Williams
Cotto at 147
Margarito
Cory Spinks
Shane Mosely years ago
Winky Wright
Pacquaio


Now tell me who would have been favored over Money May?

It's not May's fault he was not knocked out twice early. Nor was it his fault that he couldn't handle a rouch spot (Agapito) nor being outboxed by Morales.

Let's stop writing silly articles discrediting greatness to promote the agenda of highlighting your favorite fighter.

An argument can be made to discredit any fighter.

I can always say that, Manny knocked out Barrera after all of the distraction of a rough training can and mystery of the head injury. Manny was unable to blow him away in the rematch.

Manny also couldn't blow away Oscar Larios who also hurt him.

Fought and knocked out a weight drained, IV using De La Hoya.

Knocked out a Hatton that was knocked out by Mayweather and was also given extra time to recover from a possible knockout loss to Lazcano.

Knocked out Cotto after he was knocked out by Margarito and busted up badly by Clottey.

How that makes you greater I don't know.

For the record, I like Manny. I predicted the KO win of Barrera. I had him beating Marquez 115-110 in the first fight and I had him winning the second fight. Manny is the second best fighter out there and there is no shame in that.

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