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The Shadow:

Should be good! Hope he has a good run. This man knows his stuff, doesn't he? Eric Gomez is already a good matchmaker. Now it should be even better.

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The Shadow:

It's there to protect fighters, yes. Yet people are suing one guy for violating the act -- the same guy notorious for cutting into promoters' margin for the benefit of fighters.

Am I the only one confused here?

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The Shadow:

"Money May didn't say the name of the gloves. And he wouldn't because that is free publicity for that brand of glove. He simply said that Chino is unfairly trying to win against an "A-side fighter," and that was not going to happen. "He's going to wear the gloves that we tell him to.... Or it won't be a fight."

And like a man -- knowing that he didn't put it the contact -- Chino manned up and fought. And did okay. Lesson LEARNED! Put it in the contract. Or the champ is going to find an excuse to mess with you. It is call gaming. Controlling and throwing the first figurative punch. If you played slow, you don't get the first throw. And don't assume anything, just be in da know. Holla!"


Yup! You NAILED it! Floyd almost NEVER gives out free publicity. This is why he doesn't talk about other fighters, this is why he deflects questions and this is why he'll rather pretend he "don't even know who that is!"

One time on no Showtime telecast, they were asking him to name his toughest fight -- Emmanuel Augustus -- he knew he was on the big stage so he was battling in his head whether he should say the name or not.

Instead of giving the guy a plug, he started dropping hints to the ignorant announcer/interviewer who proceeded to say, "Castilo?"

"Nah. The other g-..."

"Cotto?"

"Nah."

Silence.

Finally, likely thinking, "F*** it, I'll give him some ink," Floyd deliberately said, "Burton," leaving out the Augustus. "Emmanuel Burton."

Then this one slick British interviewer tried to get Floyd to speak on the Carl Froch-George Groves We,belt Starium fight so the dude could run with the headline "Mayweather: Like I Said Before, Carl Froch Is Truly Amazing" and get a ton of UK web hits.

Instead Floyd pulled his standard non-answer by giving a totally different, irrelevant answer. " He's savvy that way.

What's funny is people think he's stupid when he does that. But he does it on purpose. I know because he's said so.

He doesn't like when people make money off of him without him getting a cut.

And why should he? LOL.

When asked, dude wouldn't even talk about his little brother. (He doesn't really know him, which may be true.)

So yes, Radam, that is EXACTLY it! Hahaha...

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The Shadow:

"You put your argument forward perfectly Stormcentre, very informed, it was a pleasure to read.



Anyone know how Kostya is getting on in Moscow these days? Would be a delight to know."




Indeed. I was reading the whole thing and I kept thinking, "Man, I hope others read this, too!"



And what is he doing? He's off somewhere teaching and preaching the reality of the sweet science -- and I'm pretty sure he does it well, too!

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The Shadow:

"That is a more accurate description of 3G.

Make no mistake the boy can bang, but he is no cutie and he has NOT accomplished what Kostya has.

Nowhere near it, as the proof shows."


Can't argue with proof. I completely agree (not that I can disagree; I can only chose to like it or not).

Hype - facts = Storm's Golovkin dissertation. Regardless of what people may think about Golovkin, the reality is he has feasted on inferior opposition with his best scalp being a No. 7 contender at best.

I'd even go as far to say that Vasyl Lomachenko faced a tougher guy in his debut than GGG faced in several -- or at least one -- of his fringe title fights.

One interesting point you mentioned is the perception that a fighter must rise in weight to to be considered elite. Such humbug. Bernard Hopkins completely dominated his weight class for years and years.

That in itself is impressive. I bet this is why Andre Ward wants to stay at 168 -- you clean out your division and then take on all comers. I'm sure he wants to be known as the greatest super middleweight of all time.

Just like K-Zoo wanted to stake his claim to all-time 140 supremacy. I can dig it.

In Brownsugar's defense, which you also allude to, there was the possibility of a Maywathe-Tszyu fight on the horizon. And to be fair, just because a formal offer was never sent doesn't mean there wasn't interest. Floyd wanted it.

But like Lou DiBella says, "sometimes guys just don't intersect."

And isn't funny how popularity -- or lack thereof -- sometimes obscures the reality of legacies?

Always found that fascinating.

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Radam G:

"Yep I agree with ya about the colors.

The sweet science is deep for sure.

I know FMJ is sly, but he made a comment that Chino was trying to cheat to beat him by using those Everlast MX gloves. That could make the company look frivolous itself."


Money May didn't say the name of the gloves. And he wouldn't because that is free publicity for that brand of glove. He simply said that Chino is unfairly trying to win against an "A-side fighter," and that was not going to happen. "He's going to wear the gloves that we tell him to.... Or it won't be a fight."

And like a man -- knowing that he didn't put it the contact -- Chino manned up and fought. And did okay. Lesson LEARNED! Put it in the contract. Or the champ is going to find an excuse to mess with you. It is call gaming. Controlling and throwing the first figurative punch. If you played slow, you don't get the first throw. And don't assume anything, just be in da know. Holla!

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amayseng:

"Don't let Money May play optical illusions on you. He never said that the gloves were "unsafe." He said that he was concerned about his safety. And Money May is tricking and dˇ˘king again. He didn't name of any glove provider "deliberately" issuing "unsafe glove($) to" "give Chino (and nobody else) an advantage."

It is a long-time fact in boxers that some fighters want gloves thick in leather and other fighters prefer gloves thick in padding.

Money May played Chino by Team Maidana's inattention blindness to put Chino's wanted type of gloves in the contract before the bout. In boxing, everything is negotiable and should be agreed upon in the contract before the bout. Or one fighter -- "especially the so-called A fighter -- can pull out.

The game is not only seedy, shady, sleazy and sneaky, it is straight weird to those who are not in it and/or in da know. And how weird and petty to those in it and should know it.

One thing that you will notice in boxing, is that you hardly ever see an opponent wearing orange or brown trunks. I use to make sure that it was in my contract that they would not.

More people don't know syet about the mystic powers of colors. Fighters, who already move around slow, are slowed down even more and are what boxers call "mind f**ked by those two colors. And don't even know it. [Why do you think that prisoners are dressed in orange in the penitentiary? And officers -- even in the military -- wear brown the world over. Because it is a way of controlling and throwing around power on slow arses. I shyt you not.

Take note how the color of all gloves was once brown. Slow-arse boxers have halted that. They didn't and don't want an opponent wearing brown-or-orange colored gloves if they can prevent it. Those the-in-coming gloves slow slow-moving boxers down even more and mind f**ked them and make them unable to concentrate and flow. Don't take my word for ask the experts. Ask Everlast why it quit making brown gloves. Ask the Olympic Committee of every country why was brown-colored gloves halted of usage in the O-games.

Boxing is known as "the sweet science." And you can bet your arse that it is. The science of things that would not even cross your mind in a zillion years are in this game.

There are optical illusions and tricks of the trade everywhere. Don't get mind f**ked by 'em. Follow the science and follow the money. And you will see the light. Ain't nuffin' but a fight. Holla!"



Yep I agree with ya about the colors.

The sweet science is deep for sure.

I know FMJ is sly, but he made a comment that Chino was trying to cheat to beat him by using those Everlast MX gloves. That could make the company look frivolous itself.

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Radam G:

I actually understood what all the fuss was about in Pacquiao-Marquez I. Marquez was lucky to get a draw, though he won the most rounds. -- 7-4-1, Da Manny won the fight by points.

Fight fans always want their pug to get the verdict based on the most rounds won and will always bytch. But the game is based on a point system -- not a round one.

In Fight II, Da Manny won the most rounds -- 6-5-1 -- and got a knockdown for two extra points. So he won on points.

In Bout III Da Manny won 7 round to five. And Nacho had Marquez thinking that he was winning, so Marquez gave the last two rounds away with a bytch-arse prevent defense. Thus Marquez lost on points.

In Fight IV, Hulkquez showed up and was getting his arse handed to him, so Marquez showed up, stepped on the ˘o©ksure PacMan's foot and lotto KHTFO. Da Manny was winning on point.

There will no Bout V. If so, Hulkquez/Marquez is getting KTFO. Holla!

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dino da vinci:

"The word "legendary" is over-used, but not in Chargin's case. He's 86 years old now, which makes him older than fellow octogenarians Arum and King, and apparently still very sharp. I can't imagine that any promoter ever staged as many fan-friendly fights."



Certainly one of three or four names I would have considered. Should have announced it sooner. All in all a great choice.

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Radam G:

"KT is doing well as a trainer. He set himself up with some good investments so he is OK with money. Check out some of his old school training techniques. www.youtube.com/watch?v=seGLREiLDH0"

Thanks for revealing that, D2. When I've told haters that is what boxers do -- old skool turning and burning, such as spinning in circles, catching coins instead of chasing chicken -- Big Screen Rocky syet -- and punching through even newspaper, the hater caught tudes. Holla!

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Radam G:

The act has accomplished nothing. Things are going as usual. Holla!

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ArneK.:

The word "legendary" is over-used, but not in Chargin's case. He's 86 years old now, which makes him older than fellow octogenarians Arum and King, and apparently still very sharp. I can't imagine that any promoter ever staged as many fan-friendly fights.

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The Shadow:

Floyd Mayweather-Jose Luis Castillo I. As is often the case, myth has overtaken reality with that one.

Bernard Hopkins-Joe Calzaghe when I initially watched it. I thought Joe won pretty handily. I've since changed a bit but that's what I thought at the time.

Hopkins-Dawson.

It was a MD for Chad but I think that was a clear victory for Bernard. People were just so ready for him to be gone (especially after the first stinker where they thought Bernard faked it) that they saw that fight entirely from Dawson's vantage point.

Hopkins was quicker, stronger, smarter -- almost everything they said Dawson would be. But when you watch a fight from the perspective of one guy, then you can usually see what you want.

To this day, people will insist Dawson won with ease. I did watch it extremely closely -- which I doubt few others we dare lol -- and I thought of it as a clear Hopkins victory, even though there was a lot of fuss about the draw card.

Of course the Canelo-Lara fight. I don't get that at all. Dandy Landy was acting all hard at the weigh-in and the staredown with his head tilted like he was gonna do something.

"I wanna break his face," he said. Yeah, right. From sweating maybe. I'm sure Canelo was struggling to keep up.

Other than that, I can't think of too many.

Maybe Roy Jones vs Samsung Park (forgot his exact name) in the Olympic finals. Didn't see what the fuss was about. The Korean clearly gave him that work. Everybody knows what time it is.

Xenophobia ran wild like Hulkamania. Shoulda been Parkamania. But the '88 Olympics were riddled in scandal. This was no different.

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Radam G:

"Canelo-Lara comes straight to mind but we have covered that one enough.

The one I vividly remember was De La Hoya-Mosley II. I had Mosley winning and the HBO commentating crew thought De La Hoya was the clear winner. I remember going late into the fight the announcers talking about Mosley certainly needing a knockout and even discussing the possibility of a rubber match to settle the score. I questioned myself about how I was seeing the fight while watching it and doubted my score at the end. But the judges had it similar and of course with Mosley the winner. This was also before twitter and social media so I had to wait to see what others thought. As time went on, started to see that more and more people saw the fight like I did.

I am sure there were others but can't recall right now off the top of my head."


Maybe it was because of the pre-fight hatred of Big Money O being called the "Bill Gates of boxing." All type of haters wanted BMO beat down. So they saw what they wanted. Instead of what was. I too saw BMO winning. But each to his own. And own psyche. Holla!

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Radam G:

"I am with D2, the way FMJ talks is that Everlast provided a deliberately made unsafe glove to give Chino an advantage, an unsafe one at that the way FMJ says this could lead to terminal consequences.



If I was Everlast I would drop paperwork in today for a lawsuit. Just to shut him up."




Don't let Money May play optical illusions on you. He never said that the gloves were "unsafe." He said that he was concerned about his safety. And Money May is tricking and dˇ˘king again. He didn't name of any glove provider "deliberately" issuing "unsafe glove($) to" "give Chino (and nobody else) an advantage."



It is a long-time fact in boxers that some fighters want gloves thick in leather and other fighters prefer gloves thick in padding.



Money May played Chino by Team Maidana's inattention blindness to put Chino's wanted type of gloves in the contract before the bout. In boxing, everything is negotiable and should be agreed upon in the contract before the bout. Or one fighter -- "especially the so-called A fighter -- can pull out.



The game is not only seedy, shady, sleazy and sneaky, it is straight weird to those who are not in it and/or in da know. And how weird and petty to those in it and should know it.



One thing that you will notice in boxing, is that you hardly ever see an opponent wearing orange or brown trunks. I use to make sure that it was in my contract that they would not.



More people don't know syet about the mystic powers of colors. Fighters, who already move around slow, are slowed down even more and are what boxers call "mind f**ked by those two colors. And don't even know it. [Why do you think that prisoners are dressed in orange in the penitentiary? And officers -- even in the military -- wear brown the world over. Because it is a way of controlling and throwing around power on slow arses. I shyt you not.



Take note how the color of all gloves was once brown. Slow-arse boxers have halted that. They didn't and don't want an opponent wearing brown-or-orange colored gloves if they can prevent it. Those the-in-coming gloves slow slow-moving boxers down even more and mind f**ked them and make them unable to concentrate and flow. Don't take my word for ask the experts. Ask Everlast why it quit making brown gloves. Ask the Olympic Committee of every country why was brown-colored gloves halted of usage in the O-games.



Boxing is known as "the sweet science." And you can bet your arse that it is. The science of things that would not even cross your mind in a zillion years are in this game.



There are optical illusions and tricks of the trade everywhere. Don't get mind f**ked by 'em. Follow the science and follow the money. And you will see the light. Ain't nuffin' but a fight. Holla!

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brownsugar:

"I would really like to go to this fight but ....but I really rather see it . No fight party, no friends over to sit with and argue and yell at when they bring a cigar inside. This is a fight that I want to turn up the volume sit next to my wife (who loves the fight game) and sit back and see every move these guys make on HD while drinking a Cold beer or two. No phone , no guests to worry about, No distractions. Going to a fight live is great but I miss the little things no matter how close I sit. Its totally worth going to a fight live,dress up , have a nice dinner, drinks, enjoy the crowd and be part of the event but in the case there is no place I rather be besides home with the wife yelling at the TV.

GGG sold out the Theater last time I went but its smaller then the main room at the Garden. If GGG was fighting Peter Q or Danny Jacobs it would be a sell out. No one in NY knows who Geale is and he has made no noise that I have heard. The hospital I work for sent out emails that they are giving some tickets away to the Garcia fight so the ticket sales for that must be terrible. They are giving tickets away at my job. I have never seen this before. Concerts and plays, yes. Boxing, no."


Right I just hope he doesn't take his business over seas like Klitschko did.

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ArneK.:

It's no surprise that ticket sales have been sluggish. An Australian vs. a guy from Kazakhstan doesn't tap into the tribal loyalties that have propelled boxing throughout its history. Moreover, the odds are lopsided in favor of GGG.

Oubabcat passes along useful information when he mentions that Perez weighed in at 242, a "compact" 242 as one report has it. Looking at his record I noticed an oddity. Two of his wins occurred on the same date. Yes, he appeared in two different bouts on the same show. We don't see that much around these parts anymore.

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oubobcat:

Canelo-Lara comes straight to mind but we have covered that one enough.

The one I vividly remember was De La Hoya-Mosley II. I had Mosley winning and the HBO commentating crew thought De La Hoya was the clear winner. I remember going late into the fight the announcers talking about Mosley certainly needing a knockout and even discussing the possibility of a rubber match to settle the score. I questioned myself about how I was seeing the fight while watching it and doubted my score at the end. But the judges had it similar and of course with Mosley the winner. This was also before twitter and social media so I had to wait to see what others thought. As time went on, started to see that more and more people saw the fight like I did.

I am sure there were others but can't recall right now off the top of my head.

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deepwater2:

KT is doing well as a trainer. He set himself up with some good investments so he is OK with money. Check out some of his old school training techniques. www.youtube.com/watch?v=seGLREiLDH0

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amayseng:

I am with D2, the way FMJ talks is that Everlast provided a deliberately made unsafe glove to give Chino an advantage, an unsafe one at that the way FMJ says this could lead to terminal consequences.

If I was Everlast I would drop paperwork in today for a lawsuit. Just to shut him up.

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Skibbz:

Well it certainly wouldn't be Provodnikov Algieri or Provodnikov Bradley...

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Skibbz:

Fair point D2. If GGG fights in Europe again I will be going, unless he decides to make the Gardens is new home then I guess i'll have to hop the pond for a big fight. Geale is in for some seriously hard leather and I think he knows it. Can't wait.

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Skibbz:

Nice comment Brownsugar, I see why there's so much appeal in the middleweight division and I love it myself too. Do you think there are more techinical fighters in the lightweight/welterweight divisions than in the middleweight division?

I think it can be argued.. But I guess you're right, it's small enough to be mobile and agile, yet big enough to stagger or drop a heavyweight. Well said.

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Skibbz:

You put your argument forward perfectly Stormcentre, very informed, it was a pleasure to read.

Anyone know how Kostya is getting on in Moscow these days? Would be a delight to know.

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deepwater2:

"I heard they only sold 5500 of 9000 tickets. ..... New Yorkers can be such ingrates.....

Nothing personal against the real boxing fans of course. ....why is that fight not an instant sell out ?

Maybe sales will pick up on fight night."




I would really like to go to this fight but ....but I really rather see it . No fight party, no friends over to sit with and argue and yell at when they bring a cigar inside. This is a fight that I want to turn up the volume sit next to my wife (who loves the fight game) and sit back and see every move these guys make on HD while drinking a Cold beer or two. No phone , no guests to worry about, No distractions. Going to a fight live is great but I miss the little things no matter how close I sit. Its totally worth going to a fight live,dress up , have a nice dinner, drinks, enjoy the crowd and be part of the event but in the case there is no place I rather be besides home with the wife yelling at the TV.



GGG sold out the Theater last time I went but its smaller then the main room at the Garden. If GGG was fighting Peter Q or Danny Jacobs it would be a sell out. No one in NY knows who Geale is and he has made no noise that I have heard. The hospital I work for sent out emails that they are giving some tickets away to the Garcia fight so the ticket sales for that must be terrible. They are giving tickets away at my job. I have never seen this before. Concerts and plays, yes. Boxing, no.

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deepwater2:

No way don't do it. Only room for one Alpha at a time. Big mistake.

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oubobcat:

"I heard they only sold 5500 of 9000 tickets. ..... New Yorkers can be such ingrates.....
Nothing personal against the real boxing fans of course. ....why is that fight not an instant sell out ?
Maybe sales will pick up on fight night."


That's what the rumors are right now. It doesn't see ticket sales are as brisk as some had hoped.

On another weigh in related note, Mike Perez came in at 242. He normally fights in the 230 range and was 231 for his last fight against Takam. It has to at least make you wonder about his conditioning some for this fight. As the old saying goes "The scale does not lie."

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stormcentre:

"I will ride shotgun with the Strom that Ko Tszyu was in a whole different league as an amateur over 3g. They don't compare.

Same in the pros. But 3g is one bad muthascooper that can whup all the present-day middleweights with ease. But they are a bunch of weak double jive turkeys. Three g is a one-man murder row. But cannot attract butts in seats. So out of the top money and opportunities, his arse the greedy keeps. Holla!"


That is a more accurate description of 3G.

Make no mistake the boy can bang, but he is no cutie and he has NOT accomplished what Kostya has.

Nowhere near it, as the proof shows.

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Radam G:

I will ride shotgun with the Strom that Ko Tszyu was in a whole different league as an amateur over 3g. They don't compare.

Same in the pros. But 3g is one bad muthascooper that can whup all the present-day middleweights with ease. But they are a bunch of weak double jive turkeys. Three g is a one-man murder row. But cannot attract butts in seats. So out of the top money and opportunities, his arse the greedy keeps. Holla!

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stormcentre:

"I watched all of the videos and read all of the comments regarding this topic....

Its an interesting argument but Personally I think that besides the ethnic similarities... ( both Tszyu and GGG, like Provodnikov and Shumenov have slightly Mongolian features,)......but that's where the similarities end.

I read somewhere that Tszyu's dad introduced him to boxing because he was hyperactive as a child.
His hyperactivity is also evident in his fighting style ....and style is something Tszyu had no shortage of.

Fighting out of a crouch ...hands low while darting in and out in addition to feignting regularly to set up his power shots .. Tszyu could put on a spectacular show against some opponents.

Its a shame he never fought Del la Hoya, Mayweather, or Mosely.....Then we could have better gaged where he stood amongst the other elite fighters.

Its not totally his fault because Oscar and Shane became full welterweights before Tszyu was ready to accept or offer a challenge and Arum blocked Mayweathers challenge by proclaiming that Mayweather couldnt draw flies...was unknown....didnt bring enough to the table ...yada yada yada.

But you have to give Tszyu credit for beating the best of the rest. He was stellar against lesser ( but still creditable) foes like Zab Judah, Sharmba Mitchell, and Ben Tackle. ...and Tszyu also took on a lot of old former Champions like a 38 year old Chavez... a faded Juan Laporte, a used up Roger Mayweather and Livingstone Bramble.

And its important to note that after 2001, Tszyu only fought once a year in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 when his management made the fateful decision to turn down Mayweather to accept the less difficult but more lucrative challenge of Ricky Hatton instead. And we know how that ended.

We can forgive Kostya Tszyu because after roughly 12 years in the game he was finished for all intents and purposes.

Its important to note that Pac and Floyd are nearing 20 years in the sport with Wlad K not too far behind.

I watched the amateur vid between Tszyu and Forrest. He looked good... But i would recommend watching Tszyu's 1-4 loss against a Cuban named Juan Hernandez to really get a fix on his deficiencies.

I also watched his fight with a so-called "life taker" named Hector Lopez.... I had to look up who Hector was since he didnt leave that large of an historical footprint.

Apparently Hector was a blown up bantamweight with decent amateur credentials who had the distinction of losing to Sammy Fuentes and Randal Bailey.... To place this in context please note that Tszyu KO'd Fuentes in one round.

I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart.
Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School.

In contrast GGG took Cubans to school in an amateur career that spanned approximately 350 fights.

As Mortcola stated earlier GGG has a more fluid two fisted offence where Tszyu frequently found himself in wild desperate exchanges against fighters like Mitchell ( the first fight) Phillips and Judah.

GGG is far more efficient the way he calmly walks down his opponents. Using a varied attack while simultaneously remaining elusive and defensively sound.
Holding your hands up and tucking the chin is better than playing russian-roulette with your reflexes.

GGG eventually paralyses the opposition. Its like taking all the opponents pawns, knights and bishops before making the final assault on the king.

GGG's dominance is so complete his opponents stop fighting back and are stuck in full reverse before the end comes.

Although GGG's story has barely begun to be written .... In a years time there won't be any more comparisons between him and KT....

By the time he's done at middleweight the discussion will revolve around "Who would win? Hagler or GGG?""



Thanks for your input BS.

I know you always think about what you write before publication; so I have given it some thought.

There are 2 ways I could respond to your intriguing comments.

One, is to say you're right, good stuff, and well done.

I want you to be happy, so take your pick please.

There’s the above (point one), and the other is as follows. . . .

Two, I appreciate your opinion, and here is mine. . . . .

Very few that I have met and/or know would consider an undisputed champion across 3 sanctions, who (to get there) beat all before him, whether or not they were guys that would go on to later be judged by the tail end of their careers - as you have - where most fighters are unsuccessful.

I note that as you do it though, that not only is it your prerogative to be this way but that also the actual discussion line was whether anyone had a video of 3G’s amateur days that bettered that of Kostya Tszyu’s amateur fight with Forrest.

I note no-one has.

The context of what I was saying was that the skill displayed in Kostya Tszyu’s amateur fight with Forrest is up there with as good as you can get; better than what I believe anyone will find of 3G’s amateur days - regardless of whether 3G had more amateur fights.

However, the fact that 3G has had more amateur fights should - by your own accounts (as you make something of this) - make it easier to find a video of 3G that displays more skill.

A KO is not necessarily skill, but skill can be a KO.

KO’s can be managed into a fighter’s record - not quite so (easily) with skill.

I would be happy to see a video of a Gennady Golovkin amateur fight where he displays more all round skill than that Kostya Tszyu displays in his fight with Vernon Forrest; which is what this thread and/or discussion was really about - not a comparison of Gennady Golovkin and Kostya Tszyu’s professional experiences.

Additionally, I would also be happy to see a video of the Cuban (Hernandez) you claim exposed Kostya Tszyu’s skills in the amateur ranks, so please feel free to provide a link. Kostya Tszyu avenged almost all his amateur losses, so it would be an interesting watch.

I am perplexed about this though, as on one hand you’re venturing into the professional ranks (and away from the context of what I was discussing) to suggest Kostya Tszyu is not elite and not on the level you claim 3G is; but then, on the other hand, and whilst there looking past the successful Cubans Kostya Tszyu destroyed there; Diosbelys Hurtado.

That said, I don’t mind a little dust up, so let’s take the matter into the turf you have (again {as I have already dealt with all of these issues you have presented, as to whether Mayweather and others were better, but will not provide the link to save your embarrassment}) and look at Kostya Tszyu’s professional achievements and compare with Gennady Golovkin.

I note you (again) claim that Arum or Mayweather’s management have previously offered Kostya Tszyu to fight Mayweather and he turned it down.

“When his management made the fateful decision to turn down Mayweather to accept the less difficult but more lucrative challenge of Ricky Hatton instead. And we know how that ended”.

Wrong.

This is rubbish.

This never happened, Kostya Tszyu has never received an offer to fight Floyd and as such never had the chance to accept it - let alone turn it down; despite how it may please to consider it not the case.

To put an end to it, I was wondering if you're prepared to place a wager on it?

If so I will get my people to write to the appropriate people and we can clear that up.

Put simply Kostya Tszyu was either injured or unsuccessful in the Hatton fight, which then led to Hatton fighting Mayweather. By the time Kostya Tszyu fought Hatton he was really past his prime and had not been as active as he normally was and/or should be.

“It’s important to note that Pac and Floyd are nearing 20 years in the sport with Wlad K not too far behind”

To that I say, it’s also important to note that both Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather have not ever been undisputed champions across the WBC, WBA and IBF sanctions in 1 division, let alone defend the title in that context.

Let’s leave the performance enhancing substances controversy that surrounds Manny’s career for now.

Please see my below comments about moving up in weight and how it can be similar to pricing yourself out of a fight.

The Hatton that Kostya Tszyu fought would give most prime light welterweights difficulty in my opinion - plus Hatton had the perfect fight plan, as Tszyu used to like to set his own tempo and his inside game was not what it used to be. All strong points for Hatton.

Please see my below comments more detailed about Hatton.

OK, let’s look at Hector Lopez.

“Apparently Hector was a blown up bantamweight with decent amateur credentials who had the distinction of losing to Sammy Fuentes and Randal Bailey.... To place this in context please note that Tszyu KO'd Fuentes in one round”.

Hector Lopez campaigned at lightweight and super lightweight (light welterweight) for the majority of his professional career.

Not bantamweight as you suggest or infer.

Hector Lopez was a brilliant bantamweight as an amateur when he represented Mexico in the Olympics, but hey Mayweather, Oscar and many others that (“blew up”) are now at 140 or above have also campaigned at lighter weights too.

Representing your country in the Olympics is, in my opinion, a little better than “decent”; but hey I don’t know how well you performed in boxing so who am I to judge.

Additionally, Hector Lopez did fight Randall Bailey and lost.

You forgot to mention that it was for the WBO light welterweight title and Lopez’ 2nd last fight; when he was only a shell of who he used to be.

You seem to have, at your discretion of course, made (some) allowances for some fighters you recall when they're in the twilight of their career, but not Hector Lopez. Still, in this form Hector Lopez took Bailey to round 9 before he got caught with Randall’s thunderous right hand that will put anyone to sleep that gets caught with it.

Also, Hector Lopez did fight Sammy Fuentes and lost.

Again, you forgot to mention that it was for the WBO light welterweight title.

Both the Hector Lopez fights you mention all took place after Kostya Tszyu fought Lopez, and therefore this is like claiming anyone that beats Zab Judah now must be at least as good as Kostya Tszyu was when Kostya Tszyu fought Judah; whilst overlooking that when Tszyu fought Zab, Zab was unbeaten, believed in himself and far better than he is now, or was after Kostya Tszyu flogged him.

Hector Lopez was the type of guy that didn’t do much match making and he didn’t care too much for preparation time either. If he got offered a fight, he took it. But when Kostya Tszyu fought him he was on a run, very fit, very tough, and he always had beautiful skills. People in the know, know.

Still let’s put that to one side for a moment, and let’s compare who Kostya Tszyu was fighting at their tenth fight; to whom 3G was as you say.

“I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart. Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School”.

In Kostya Tszyu’s 10th fight he fought Hector Lopez, a silver medalist in the Olympics.

Going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu Lopez was 26-2-1 and he had fought; 5) Daniel Santos, 4) Miguel Angel Gonzales, 3) Guillermo Cruz, 2) Donald Stokes, and 1) Fernando Rodriguez; just prior to meeting Kostya Tszyu.

Gennady Golovkin’s 10th fight was with a guy called “Tshepo Mashego”. Now we’re comparing apples with apples, without any selective discretion.

I’ll get back to Tshepo Mashego a bit later, but please don’t forget his and Hector Lopez’ name and achievements; as they will come in handy later.

Going into his fight with Hector Lopez in 1993, Daniel Santos had won all but one fight and his record stood at 19-1-0.

5) Daniel Santos: Santos’ previous 5 fights themselves were a mix of KO and points wins, with the only split decision coming from Miguel Gonzales.

4) Miguel Angel Gonzales: Going into his fight with Hector Lopez in 1993, Miguel Angel Gonzales had won all fights at 28-0-0. Miguel Angel Gonzales later went on to become a world champion beating Leavander Johnson, Calvin Grove, and 6 other guys in world title fights before Oscar beat him on a unanimous decision in 97.

From there Miguel Angel Gonzales continued and in 98 he fought Julio Cesar Chavez to a draw for the WBC light welterweight title; before finally being utterly destroyed and stopped by Kostya Tszyu on the 10th round of a 12 round fight in 99.

As an adjunct, Leavander Johnson and Calvin Grove, and Miguel Angel Gonzales, were all very good and well known boxers in their own rights, and Kostya Tszyu destroyed Grove in 1 round in 98 (just prior to TKOing Rafael Reulas in 9 rounds in the same year). We all know what happened to Miguel Angel Gonzales when he fought Kostya Tszyu, as Tszyu flogged him so much - despite the blatantly illegal tactics Gonzales consistently employed - that it made the target practice (Oscar’s own words about his fight with Miguel Angel Gonzales) Oscar enjoyed look like a friendly sparring session.

Kostya Tszyu’s fight with Miguel Angel Gonzalez and his superior display of authority of him to that which Oscar achieved ensured that Top Rank or GBP never offered Kostya Tszyu the chance to take down the predominantly Mexican styled Oscar. That’s why they never fought.

3) Guillermo Cruz: Onto Guillermo Cruz whom Hector Lopez fought in 92. Going into his fight with Hector Lopez in Mexico City, 1992; Guillermo Cruz was 22-8-0, and out of the prior 5 fights (to Lopez) Guillermo Cruz was 5 and 1. The 1 loss was a KO loss to Carlos Gonzales (who was 27-0-0 going in, in 1991). The other wins were a mix of KO and points wins, with 3 wins by KO {over Humberto Rodriguez, Miguel Gonzalez and Javier Marquez}, and the other a 12 round points win over Jose Ramon Soria.

Not bad competition on Hector Lopez’ part - but please don’t forget the name Tshepo Mashego as I say this, and please don’t forget . . . .

“I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart. Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School”.

“Apparently Hector was a blown up bantamweight with decent amateur credentials who had the distinction of losing to Sammy Fuentes and Randal Bailey.... To place this in context please note that Tszyu KO'd Fuentes in one round”.

2) Donald Stokes: Onto Donald Stokes whom Hector Lopez also fought (before fighting Kostya Tszyu) in 92. Going into his fight with Hector Lopez for the NABF light welterweight title in Las Vegas, in 1992; Donald Stokes was 27-0-1. Out of the prior 5 fights Stokes before meeting Hector Stokes had won them all; with 4 wins by way of a KO and/or stoppage, and one split decision win. The guys Donald Stokes fought for these wins were average to reasonable and more reminiscent (record and ability-wise) of those whom 3G (directly) fought in his first 15 or so professional fights - by that I mean not the opponents of the guys that Kostya Tszyu directly fought in his 10th fight; such as Hector Lopez.

Perhaps more importantly is the fact that Donald Stokes had not lost in the 27 fights he had prior to meeting Hector Lopez, but Lopez TKO’d him in round 11 of their 12 round NABF championship fight.

I will also deal with Fernando Rodriguez - the 5th least recent boxer Hector Lopez fought before he fought Kostya Tszyu - a little later.

Before I move to 3G’s 10th fight (with “Tshepo Mashego”) it’s also important to remember that Hector Lopez was a very good boxer and fighter.

He was a guy that dodged no one, and often - already after a hard days sparring - he would stay back and/or travel for more glove-work. He was known to be a fearsome sparring partner in the entire Los Angeles area, and I have seen him more than trouble Shane Mosley (whom also was a gym rat of sorts) in sparring sessions. Ask around with those whom know the LA boxing scene and not many will have a negative word to say about Hector Lopez; unless they're inexperienced as a boxer, trainer and/or manager.

Hector Lopez grew up in Glendale California, although he was born in Mexico city.

As an amateur Hector became a Mexican national bantamweight champion, and in the 84 Los Angeles Olympics Lopez became more than a decent fighter by winning a silver medal in the bantamweight division for Mexico.

In doing so Lopez was also the youngest ever competitor at the Olympics (regardless of sport) at that time; again slightly better than “decent”.

Hector Lopez, in 2011, died at the age of 44 from a suspected drug overdose.

I recall the very sad event well as I was living in California at the time and have never forgotten the man that everybody in the LA gyms, either over there or those that travelled over here for paid glove work, said was virtually indestructible. The stories were a plenty and some included Lopez thinking nothing of being the main sparring partner for 2 different guys, that were both heading into title shots but geographically separated; all as Hector headed into his own title shots.

“Guys wouldn’t show for sparring - that’s how good Lopez got”; Harry Kazandjian (Hector’s manager) would say.

And the stories from the fighter’s themselves that sparred and fought Lopez never conflicted with these accounts either.

The guy was a warrior that, when in shape, loved to fight and simply hated the minute break, and you gotta love that attitude.

Personally, I know of no one in the sport that would allow their charge to fight a guy like Lopez (when he was in the form he had when Kostya Tszyu fought him) whilst they had only 10 professional fights.

Certainly - as 3G’s record shows - Tom Loeffler think the same - yes I’ll get to 3G’s 10th fight with “Tshepo Mashego”, and the comparisons, in a minute.

In 1985 Hector Lopez first turned professional and went on to win all 25 of his first 26 fights. He finally closed the book with a body of boxing work that read out as 41-7-1, with 23 KOs.

Hector Lopez officially retired in 2000.

Hector Lopez possessed several North American and/or Intercontinental boxing titles throughout his professional career and during it he also challenged for the major titles no less than 3 times. During his colorful career Hector Lopez also experienced all life could throw at him and as such his career was sometimes sporadic and delayed by his anarchic and often unstable life outside of boxing; of which involved incarceration, street fights, and struggles with drugs.

Hey, the guy sounds like some of my most entertaining buddies!!!

All up Lopez had many great and memorable exciting fights, including his 10-round loss to the undisputed junior welterweight champ Kostya Tszyu; who - contradictory to some inferences - was actually inducted into boxing’s hall of fame in January of 1994.

Hector Lopez RIP, it’s time to come home and not only rest soldier - but to also be appreciated for who you are and what you have achieved.


OK, going into 3G’s 10th fight he fought a guy called; Tshepo Mashego.

Who?

Yep, that’s right you never heard of him, yet . . . .

“I also watched his fight with a so-called "life taker" named Hector Lopez.... I had to look up who Hector was since he didnt leave that large of an historical footprint”.

. . . You're insinuating that Hector Lopez, as Kostya Tszyu met him, is nothing to make a big deal over as an opponent in your 10th fight; as you're telling us 3G is the best thing since sliced bread - all without staying on point (which was whether a video of 3G’s amateur days could be produced that bested the skills displayed by Kostya Tszyu in his amateur fight against Vernon Forrest) and offering up a 3G amateur video to better Kostya Tszyu V Vernon Forrest.

C’mon dawg! You hatin or what? 

For the record, I really like 3G and was one of, if not, the 1st to raise his name at these forums quite a few years ago - check the old forums - when Patrick Keoh used to scribe for TSS website, and search for a guy called “Steve” whom used to interact with “DaveB” a bit.

I can say this confidently as I almost always have my finger on the pulse of whose coming out of the Eastern Bloc amateur system, for personal reasons I won’t go into here.

In addition to that I also know several of the (more) respected Russian (amateur) boxing trainers.

For example, one of my friends knows Vasyl Lomachenko’s old amateur coach (Anatoly) quite well, and those that have been with TSS for some time may recall that I wrote about Vasyl Lomachenko at length in these forums quite some time ago.

http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?12432-Andre-Ward-There-s-Nobody-Out-There-Like-Him-Today

http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?12777-Rigo-Wants-Donaire-or-Lomachenko-Next

Furthermore, I personally know Jirov (he fought Toney in a brilliant fight), Alex Lebsiak (Sydney Olympics; slaughtered Danny Green), Matvey Korobov.

So, I have reasonably good knowledge of whose who and (genuinely) how good they are, and how they're testing themselves and moving along in the boxing scene; particularly if they come out of Russia, Ukraine or the surrounding areas.

I really like Gennady Golovkin and he may even go onto be one of the best middleweights of all time, but he’s not there yet and he is certainly no Marvin Hagler or Kostya Tszyu.

Gennady Golovkin’s technical game is not as polished at Kostya Tszyu’s and he hasn’t nearly challenged himself in the same manner, and I see no amateur video of him that bests the skills that Kostya Tszyu displays against Forrest; which is really what this was all originally about.

If you have a look at Gennady Golovkin’s fight with Curtis Stevens you can see that in the middle rounds - where and when it looked like Stevens might not go away as 3G planned and hoped - Gennady Golovkin became frustrated and without a plan “B”.

A top level player like Andre Ward will exploit that deficiency, and Gennady Golovkin’s defensive liabilities and reliance on power hitting, with positive efficiency.

It’s different at the top level as Floyd says, and indeed it is. Power don’t mean much when you're fit and have the skills to pay the bills, and make them miss and spill.

OK let’s seriously compare Gennady Golovkin’s 10th fight to Kostya Tszyu’s 10th fight in Hector Lopez; whom you have inferred I have made a bigger deal out of than is required and offered 3G’s professional career as a means to back it up; despite the fact that the discussion was over amateur skills.

Above is a good insight to who Hector Lopez was and how much of a challenge he was (when he fought Kostya Tszyu) for anyone; let alone someone in their 10th professional fight, still a boy, and in their early twenties - as Kostya Tszyu was when he took a close decision from Hector.

Remember Gennady Golovkin fought Tshepo Mashego in his 10th fight.

Tshepo Mashego did not win a medal at the Olympics as Lopez did.

In fact I don’t think Tshepo Mashego even competed in the commonwealth or Olympic games at all. Therefore, by your own accounts Tshepo Mashego probably didn’t even have a “decent” amateur career.

Yet, this was Gennady Golovkin’s 10th fight! And Hector Lopez is (allegedly) nothing to write home about as your 10th fight.

Anyway, I think that’s the level of amateur success between the two that Kostya Tszyu and Gennady Golovkin chose as their 10th fights, neatly dealt with.

Going into his 2008 professional fight with Gennady Golovkin, Tshepo Mashego’s previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Tshepo Mashego lost to (the Australian) Jamie Pittman over 12 rounds.

4) Tshepo Mashego lost to Vincent Vuma over 12 rounds.

3) Tshepo Mashego beat Johannes Pieterson by a KO in round 3

2) Tshepo Mashego lost to Badru Lusambya by a KO in round 6 over a 12 round match up.

1) Tshepo Mashego lost to William Gare over 12 rounds.

All Tshepo Mashego’s above-mentioned point losses, except for Vuma, were all unanimous decisions.

Therefore, going into his fight with Gennady Golovkin - which was Gennady Golovkin’s 10th fight - Tshepo Mashego had lost 4 out of 5 fights.

Hmmn. Not exactly the same competition as Kostya Tszyu fighting Hector Lopez at your tenth fight is it?

One can only imagine how confident, a powerful puncher like Gennady Golovkin, felt going into his 10th fight with Tshepo Mashego; knowing wholeheartedly that out of the last 5 fights Tshepo Mashego had he had lost 4 (or 80%) of them, and out of the 4 losses Mashego experienced there was 1 KO and 2 unanimous decisions.

I have above-mentioned how going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu, the Olympian Hector Lopez fought Daniel Santos, Miguel Angel Gonzales, Guillermo Cruz, and Donald Stokes.

Prior to Donald Stokes Hector Lopez also knocked out Fernando Rodriguez in the last round of their scheduled ten rounder.

Therefore, going into his 1994 fight with Kostya Tszyu - which was Tszyu’s 10th fight - Hector Lopez’s previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Hector Lopez TKO’s Daniel Santos in round 3 of a scheduled 10 round fight. (I have above-provided a brief of Daniel Santos’ record going into his fight with Lopez).

4) Hector Lopez loses a unanimous decision for the WBC lightweight title, to then (by way of the fight itself) current champion and also future light welterweight champion Miguel Angel Gonzales (whom then goes on to successfully defend the same WBC light welterweight title 8 times in a row after fighting Lopez); in very exciting 12 round fight. (I have above-provided a brief of Miguel Angel Gonzales’ record going into his fight with Lopez)

3) Hector Lopez fights Guillermo Cruz - who went into the fight with Lopez as 22-8-0 - to a 10 round draw. (I have above-provided a brief of Guillermo Cruz’ record going into his fight with Lopez).

2) Hector Lopez - for the NABF light welterweight title - KO’s Donald Stokes in round 11 of a scheduled 12 round championship fight. (I have above-provided a brief of Donald Stokes’ record going into his fight with Lopez).

1) Hector Lopez KO’s Fernando Rodriguez - who was really a soft opponent and a warm up workout for Hector before his above-mentioned NABF title with Donald Stokes - in round 10 of a scheduled 10 round fight. (I have not provided a brief of Fernando Rodriguez’ record going into his fight with Lopez, as his record was 0-5-0 going into his fight with Kopez).

As you can easily see Tshepo Mashego as a 10th fight opponent for Gennady Golovkin (15-8-0 going in with 3G) clearly presented far less skills, experience and/or concerns for Gennady Golovkin, than Hector Lopez (26-2-1 going in with 3G) did for Kostya Tszyu at his 10th fight.

There is no one on Gennady Golovkin’s record - even now - that matches to Miguel Angel Gonzalez, what he achieved and whom he fought, and Lopez himself (as Kostya Tszyu’s 10th fight) fought him.

This clear difference between who Gennady Golovkin and Kostya Tszyu both fought in their 10th fights, can be attributed to the difference of skills and confidence that Kostya Tszyu and his team had in stepping up and achieving their goals.

Let’s not stop there though . . .

No less than 7 fights after Tshepo Mashego Gennady Golovkin then started to dip his toes into pseudo-world ranked fights - but even then it was only an intercontinental bout and not an official world title bout as such.

That fight was against a guy called John Anderson Carvahalho who I will touch on later, but Carvahalho was 19-3-1 going in with 3G; which is still not the same record Lopez had in Kostya Tszyu’s 10th fight. But then, who knows, maybe Carvahalho’s opponents were of a far better caliber than Lopez’ were.

One thing is for sure, we’re going to find out and leave no doubt - so read on.

By comparison Kostya Tszyu fought Jake Rodriguez, a southpaw - who was 26-2-2 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu, already a world champion, and had also successfully defended his IBF light welterweight title no less than 3 times to guys like Charles Murray, Ray Oliviera and George Scott {all whom had excellent records}; before fighting Kostya Tszyu - for the IBF light welterweight title in 95.

This was the first time Kostya Tszyu did anything on the officially world class stage as a professional fighter.

Kostya Tszyu fought Jake Rodriguez - only 2 fights after Tszyu fought Hector Lopez - and he blew Rodriguez out by KO in the 6th round of a scheduled 12.

Therefore, by Kostya Tszyu’s 13th professional fight he had KO’d Jake Rodriguez, a well known and successful world champion, and in doing so Kostya Tszyu therefore owned the IBF light welterweight strap.

After the fight with Kostya Tszyu, Rodriguez said Kostya Tszyu hit him harder than Felix Trinidad; whom was Rodriguez’ only loss on the ledger prior to fighting Kostya Tszyu.

By comparison Gennady Golovkin fought Carvahalho for 3G’s 17th fight and the first time any Gennady Golovkin professional fight had a world class stake associated with it. Gennady Golovkin fought Carvahalho for the vacant WBO intercontinental middleweight title; which was not as legitimate as a fully fledged IBF title, such as that Kostya Tszyu ripped from Jake Rodriguez in Tszyu’s 13th fight.

Therefore, Kostya Tszyu’s achievements in this respect were more difficult and achieved sooner than Gennady Golovkin, as 3G had still not achieved a legitimate world title in 17 fights whilst Kostya Tszyu had achieved it in 13.

In Gennady Golovkin’s 13th fight, he fought a guy called Amar Amari who (who?) was 13-9-1 going into his fight with 3G.

Remember Kostya Tszyu, in his 13th fight, had fought Jake Rodriguez (who was 26-2-2 going into the fight with Tszyu) and won the IBF light welterweight title.

The Gennady Golovkin V Amar Amari fight was not for a title of any sorts.

Going into his 2008 fight with Gennady Golovkin (Golovkin’s 13 pro fight) Amar Amari previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Amar Amari lost to Robert Roselia by vicious knockout in the 2nd round.

4) Amar Amari lost to Christophe Karagoz by point over an 8 round bout.

3) Amar Amari won a 6 round fight by points over a guy called Zsolt Botos (who was 6-28-0 going into his fight with 3G). Yes that’s 6 wins and 28 losses!

2) Amar Amari then fought to a draw over 8 rounds with a guy called Francious Bastient.

1) Amar Amari lost to Simone Rotolo by knockout in the 3rd of a 6 round contest.

Please check and correct me if I am wrong but I don’t believe there are any Olympians or genuine world title holders in that list for Amar Amari, and therefore indirectly Gennady Golovkin’s 13 pro fight.

John Anderson Carvahalho was mentioned above, as Gennady Golovkin’s 17th fight; the 4th after Amar Amari.

John Anderson Carvahalho represented the first time 3G started to fight professionally in a world ranked sense. However, even then, for Gennady Golovkin, it was still only in an intercontinental sense.

Going into his 2009 fight with Gennady Golovkin (Golovkin’s 17th pro fight), John Anderson Carvahalho’s previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Oscar Velitz (24-14-12 going into fight Carvahalho) was beaten by John Anderson Carvahalho by unanimous decision over 12 rounds.

4) Carvahalho lost to Sebastian Zbik (23-0-0 going into fight Carvahalho) by points over a 12 round bout.

3) Carvahalho knocked out Pablo Medina (10-2-2 going into fight Carvahalho) in round 9 of a 12 round fight.

2) Carvahalho beat Claudio Abalos (17-9-2 going into fight Carvahalho) for a points decision over 12 rounds.

1) Carvahalho beat Jeferson Gonalco (15-2-2 going into fight Carvahalho) for a points decision over 12 rounds.

So, for Gennady Golovkin’s 17th pro fight in 2009 there was a slight step up in class, as 3G successfully looked at the vacant WBO intercontinental middleweight title and beat John Anderson Carvahalho for it.

However, after all of the above, to still assume that John Anderson Carvahalho represents a more formidable opponent (even if you disregard the fact that his fight with Gennady Golovkin was Golovkin’s 17th, and wasn’t for a “true” world title {unless you, sadly, believe intercontinental titles represent that}) than Hector Lopez did for Kostya Tszyu, at Tszyu’s 10th fight; is in my humble opinion akin to continuously doing the same thing and wondering why the results have not changed.

Out of all those above-mentioned that John Anderson Carvahalho fought prior to heading into his fight with Gennady Golovkin, Zbik included, I don’t believe (at the time) there were are any previous Olympians or genuine world title holders (intercontinental titles aside) in that list. Please check and correct me if I am wrong.

That is a pretty big difference to Kostya Tszyu’s list of foes and achievements, whether you look at him at the 10, 13 or 17th fight point of his pro career.

To put it into perspective with Kostya Tszyu’s achievements, at the same time in his professional career as Gennady Golovkin took on John Anderson Carvahalho; Kostya Tszyu had successfully defended a legitimate version of the light welterweight world title belt from the IBF sanction - a sanction with only 1 belt per division - 5 times.

Those 5 times were against;

1) Kostya Tszyu’s 1st defence of IBF light welterweight title; Roger Mayweather (a former world champion and 54-11-0 going in with Kostya Tszyu).

2) Kostya Tszyu’s 2nd defence of IBF light welterweight title; Hugo Pineda (a former world champion and both unbeaten and 27-0-1 going in with Kostya Tszyu).

3) Kostya Tszyu’s 3rd defence of IBF light welterweight title; Corey Johnson (a former world champion and 20-1-1 going in with Kostya Tszyu).

4) Kostya Tszyu’s 4th defence of IBF light welterweight title; Jan Piet Bergman (a former world and domestic champion, and both unbeaten and 32-0-0 going in with Kostya Tszyu).

5) Kostya Tszyu’s 5th defence of IBF light welterweight title; Leonardo Mas (a former world challenger that Kostya Tszyu complained to the WBC of before the bout as Kostya Tszyu believed he was not experienced enough, and 23-2-0 going in with Kostya Tszyu).

Therefore, by the time Gennady Golovkin started to (safely; as it was only an intercontinental version of the WBO title) consider world class honors in the professional ranks by fighting John Anderson Carvahalho in what was 3G’s 17th pro fight; Kostya Tszyu had already accomplished the above and with a far more credible, dangerous and famous list of challengers; most of which Kostya Tszyu knocked our and/or destroyed.

It is safe to say there is no comparison to Kostya Tszyu’s achievements, risks and rate of progress as a professional fighter; particularly when looking at and/or comparing to Gennady Golovkin’s.

However, let’s just make sure there no ghosts in the machinery of my analysis.

Clearly for Gennady Golovkin, even though John Anderson Carvahalho (3G’s 17th pro fight) represented a step up in competition and risk, it (like Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Matthew Macklin and even Ishida {whom we have discussed previously - remember when you were high on him?}) was still nothing like what Kostya Tszyu had been testing himself with after he won the IBF title from Jake Rodriguez (Tszyu’s 13th fight) and then defended it 5 times; taking Kostya Tszyu not only to around 5 successful title defences of a legitimate world title against guys that were all legitimate previous world champions and/or unbeaten - but also roughly up to the point in his career when he fought the unbeaten and former world champion Jan Bergman.

And Kostya Tszyu did all that before he even clocked up 17 professional fights!

“I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart”.

In Gennady Golovkin’s 1st semi-legitimate world title fight he chose the WBA sanction.

Unlike the IBF, there are 3 titles there for every weight division.

Think of that what you will, but please point the same high powered perception you have straddled Kostya Tszyu with . . . .

“I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart”.

. . . in the direction of 3G, and consider why the WBA, when 3G had just won the intercontinental WBO title from John Anderson Carvahalho?

Gennady Golovkin’s 1st semi-legitimate world title fight for this WBA title took place in 2010 at the Roberto Duran Arena, Panama City; it was also 3G’s 19th pro fight, and aside from selecting the WBA sanction 3G’s unlucky opponent was called “Milton Nunez”.

Milton Nunez came into the bout with a 21-1-1 record, and his previous (to Gennady Golovkin) 5 fights looked like this (and please note we are only just now starting to look like Hector Lopez’ record for Kostya Tszyu’s 10th and non-title pro fight).

Going into his 2010 fight with Gennady Golovkin (Golovkin’s 19th pro fight), Milton Nunez’s previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Milton Nunez KOd Anibal Miranda (8-16-1 going into fight Nunez) in the 3rd round over a 10 round bout. Yes that’s 16 losses!

4) Milton Nunez KOd Howard Cassiani (0-4-0 going into fight Nunez) in the 2nd round over an 8 round bout. Yes that’s 0 wins and 4 losses!

3) Milton Nunez KOd Johhny Dehorta (0-3-0 going into fight Nunez) in the 4th round over an 8 round bout. Yes that’s 0 wins and 3 losses!

2) Milton Nunez KOd Diego Castillo (23-6-0 going into fight Nunez) in the 3rd round over an 8 round bout.

1) Milton Nunez won a points decision over Edinson Teheran (6-6-1 going into fight Nunez) over a 9 round bout. Yes that’s 6 wins and 6 losses!

Looking at that Milton Nunez “achievement” list one could easily come to the conclusion that he was perfect for anyone wanting to pad their record - let alone fight for a world title.

And you could probably come to this conclusion even easier if you had approached it with the same critical mindset as Kostya Tszyu has been judged.

Also, from the above Milton Nunez “achievement” list one might additionally arrive at the conclusion that it wasn’t until way back in 2009 when Nunez fought Diego Castillo, that Milton Nunez actually fought a live dog; as Diego Castillo was 23-6-0 going into his fight with Nunez, and Nunez did him over in the 3rd round of a scheduled 8 round bout.

But just as assuming that moving up in weight class has more prestige than not running, sticking around and unifying the titles; that would also be a wrong assumption.

To borrow a phrase from RG; there are optical illusions everywhere.

Diego Castillo, going into his 2009 fight with Milton Nunez, had lost 3 fights in a row by KO, and the 2 before that he had won by KO (as those 2 guys respectively had 2-21-0 and 0-1-0 records {yes the 21 represents losses}).

Then, as if that was not enough, prior to those 2 (questionable) KO wins, Diego Castillo was then knocked out 3 rimes in a row; again.

This adds a new perspective to the challenges Gennady Golovkin faced when climbing the professional boxing ladder and seeking to acquire world class honors - just as much as it speaks of his management’s ability to market and match make.

Therefore, from the above I think it’s probably safe to say that any of these guys that Gennady Golovkin fought, or any of his opponents like John Anderson Carvahalho fought (3G’s 17th pro fight), up until and including Gennady Golovkin’s first genuine world title fight (in a sanction with 3 titles/champions for every weight) with Milton Nunez (3G’s 19th pro fight); are certainly nowhere near the caliber of opponent that Hector Lopez and/or Jake Rodriguez represented for Kostya Tszyu in his 10th and 13th fights.

Furthermore, they're also probably no better than the weakest guy Kostya Tszyu fought when defending his sole IBF light welterweight title (before Tszyu went onto be a triple unified world champion); Leonardo Mas - Kostya Tszyu’s 5th successful defence of his IBF light welterweight title.

I wonder whether Gennady Golovkin or any of his opponents would have - as Kostya Tszyu did - complained to their governing sanction before the bout, due to the fact that they believed their opponent was not experienced enough; as Kostya Tszyu did with Mas?

From the above facts, clearly Gennady Golovkin, or perhaps I should say his management, certainly wouldn’t.

Leonardo Mas was 23-2-0 going in with Kostya Tszyu.

John Anderson Carvahalho was 19-3-1 going in with Gennady Golovkin.

Milton Nunez was (somehow) 21-1-1 going in with Gennady Golovkin.

John Anderson Carvahalho represented Gennady Golovkin’s 1st foray into a partly legitimate world class arena of professional boxing, and as such he was not only 3G’s 17th pro fight - but also one of the better fighters Gennady Golovkin had fought thus far at that stage of his career.

Still, this was far from the level Kostya Tszyu faced at the same (or even earlier) times of Tszyu’s career.

Milton Nunez represented Gennady Golovkin’s 1st foray into the partly legitimate world class arena of professional boxing also, and as such he was not only 3G’s 19th pro fight - but also, seemingly, the best fighter Gennady Golovkin had fought thus far at that stage of his career.

From Gennady Golovkin’s fight with Milton Nunez, 3G became the WBA (interim) middleweight champion.

So, by 19 professional fights Gennady Golovkin still had not achieved what Kostya Tszyu had in 13, or any of the 5 successful title defences he made of his legitimate IBF title that he won from Rodriguez in his 13th fight. Additionally, it seems that neither Amari, Nunez and Carvahalho really represented any better challenge to Gennady Golovkin than Hector Lopez did to Kostya Tszyu in his 10th professional fight; despite the fact that Amari was Gennady Golovkin’s 10th pro fight, with Nunez being 3G’s 19th pro fight and Carvahalho representing 3G’s 17th pro fight

As mentioned above, Leonardo Mas was 23-2-0 going in with Kostya Tszyu, represented one of the lesser opponents for Kostya Tszyu, and this was of concern to Kostya Tszyu.

The fact that Leonardo Mas’ (whom represented Kostya Tszyu’s 5th successful title defence of his IBF light welterweight strap and perhaps Kostya Tszyu’s most less capable opponent) record and achievements are similar to, if not better to those - of roughly the same career time - that represented Gennady Golovkin’s best challenges; as Gennady Golovkin climbed the ranks in an effort to get his hands on the WBA interim middleweight title in his 19th fight - is itself telling of how comparable both fighter’s professional achievements really are.

All in all, by the same time Gennady Golovkin had 19 or so fights and was fighting guys like Milton Nunez for the WBA interim middleweight title; Kostya Tszyu, in his 19th fight had lost to Vince Phillips in a thrilling encounter where Kostya Tszyu laid it all on the line, and was ready to recover, bounce back and go onto what was arguably the best part of his career.

There was no shame to the loss in Phillips as when one tests themselves at the highest level in this sport, particularly in boxing, a loss is bound to happen.

It’s how you deal with it and move one that matters and reveals whether you're a true champion or not.

After the Phillips fight Kostya Tszyu recovered, bounced straight back, and won 8 fights in a row; all by the short route.

They were as follows, in chronological order;

1) Kostya Tszyu, in his 1st fight after losing to Vince Phillips, knocked out Ismael Chaves (40-5-3 going into fight Tszyu) in round 3 of a scheduled 12 round fight; for an WBC title eliminator.

2) Kostya Tszyu, after KOing Ismael Chaves in 3 rounds, in Kostya Tszyu’s 2nd fight after losing to Vince Phillips, then knocked out Calvin Grove (40-9-0 going into fight Tszyu) in round 1 of a scheduled 10 round fight.

3) Kostya Tszyu, after Calvin Grove, brutally knocked out Rafael Ruelas (52-3-0 going into fight Tszyu) in round 9 of a scheduled 12 round fight; for an WBC title eliminator. Ruelas’ corner would not allow him to continue taking so much punishment; it was a first for the often durable Ruelas.

4) Kostya Tszyu, then after thoroughly defeating Rafael Ruelas, brutally knocked out the Cuban technician Diosbelys Hurtado (28-1-0 going into fight Tszyu) in round 5 of a scheduled 12 round fight; for the interim WBF title, as a world title eliminator.

“I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart. Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School”.

5) Kostya Tszyu, after destroying the Cuban technician Diosbelys Hurtado, mercilessly tortured Miguel Angel Gonzalez (43-1-1 going into fight Tszyu) and stopped him in round 10 of a scheduled 12 round championship fight for the WBC light welterweight title. The fight’s prolonged savagery and punishment took such a toll on Miguel Angel Gonzalez that the then WBC president openly discussed safety options for professional boxers (have a watch and see).

After regaining a world title Kostya Tszyu then successfully defended the WBC strap twice before looking to unify against the then WBA champion Sharmba Mitchell in 2001.

Going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu, Mitchell hadn’t lost for approximately 7 years, and even then those losses came against good competition in the form of Stevie Johnson and Leavander Johnson, and both their successful bouts with Mitchell took place way back in 1994; 6 years prior to Sharmba Mitchell’s first bout with Kostya Tszyu in 2001.

Before Sharmba Mitchell and also a complete unification of all, WBC, IBF and WBA light welterweight titles could happen - which was Kostya Tszyu’s overall goal - there was more highly rated champions and/or ex-champions to slay, and it went like this.

6) Kostya Tszyu, after mercilessly torturing Miguel Angel Gonzalez and winning the WBC light welterweight title, went on and fought Ahmed Santos (26-2-4 going into fight Tszyu). Tszyu easily stopped him in round 8 of a scheduled 12 round championship fight; marking out Kostya Tszyu’s 1st defence of his WBC light welterweight title.

7) After Ahmed Santos Kostya Tszyu fought the great Julio Cesar Chavez (103-4-2 going into fight Tszyu). Tszyu stopped Chavez in round 6 of a scheduled 12 round WBC light welterweight championship defence, which was Kostya Tszyu’s 2nd defence of his WBC light welterweight title. This was now Kostya Tszyu’s 7th straight KO win since his unexpected loss to Cool Vince Phillips in 1997.

By this stage Oscar DeLaHoya noticed that Kostya Tszyu was dispatching similar opponents to him, but with greater ease and spectacle. It was a factor as to why Oscar and Kostya never fought.

In 2001 at Las Vegas’ Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino Kostya Tszyu fought Sharmba Mitchell in a unification bout. Up for grabs was Kostya Tszyu’s WBC light welterweight strap and also Mitchell’s WBA light welterweight belt.

8) Kostya Tszyu beat Mitchell (47-2-0 going into fight Tszyu) by stopping him in round 7. Kostya Tszyu was penalized in the 4th round for pushing Mitchell to the ground, and Mitchell later in round 7 failed to come out of his corner and fight; citing an injured knee. It was not until later, in 2004, and after many bitter and taunting words from Sharmba, that Kostya Tszyu and Mitchell finally got to settle the score.

In that fight Kostya Tszyu, after shoulder surgery and an 18 month layoff, knocked Mitchell out in round 3 of a scheduled 12 round IBF championship fight.

As an adjunct, Floyd Mayweather, later in 2005, knocked Sharmba out in 6 rounds. But by then, and particularly after Kostya Tszyu had beaten Mitchell twice and destroyed him a 2nd time with a spectacular KO that put an end to all the talking, Lovemore Ndou, Vince Phillips, Carlos Vilches and many others had also beaten Mitchell; guaranteeing that Mitchell was no longer a dangerous southpaw anymore - just as much as it showed why Mitchell became one of Floyd Mayweather’s rare KO victims when Floyd fought above lightweight.

9) After stopping Sharmba Mitchell in 7 rounds, Kostya Tszyu then fought Oktay Urkal (28-8-0 going into fight Tszyu) midway through 2001. Urkal took Tszyu through all 12 rounds and Kostya Tszyu won a unanimous and grueling decision. In doing so Kostya Tszyu had now set up both a complete unification bout for all the light welterweight titles (WBC, WBA and IBF), and also a fight with Zab Judah; whom was both unbeaten and the IBF light welterweight title holder at the time.

Kostya Tszyu’s inability to stop Urkal was seen by some as a sign Tszyu was slipping and this increased the confidence Judah displayed both before and after Kostya’s fight with Oktay.

By the time Tszyu came to fight Urkal - effectively, in Judah’s eyes presenting him (Zab) with the chance to become the absolute unified champion in the light welterweight division no matter whether Tszyu or Urkal won - Zab’s confidence was palpable.

As such Judah could not publicly control himself, and he was regularly heard publicly disparaging Kostya with “winner takes all comments” in response to whether there would be a rematch clause, and this behavior would later come back to haunt Judah both in and out of the ring as it pertained to his fight with Kostya Tszyu.

Additionally, just prior to Kostya’s fight with Oktay Urkal, Judah was seen on the network mocking Tszyu - by mimicking Kostya Tszyu’s extended left hand in a robotic fashion; as if to say Kostya Tszyu is going to be easy work and fun.

Late in 2001 Kostya Tszyu, and after conclusively shutting the (then) unbeaten Oktay Urkal out over 12 hard rounds, put both his WBC and WBA light welterweight titles on the line for an ultimate light welterweight unification showdown with the (then) unbeaten Zab Judah (27-0-0 going into fight Tszyu).

What a lot of people don’t know is that Kostya Tszyu was not obligated to risk both the WBC and WBA versions of the light welterweight title he owned in his fight with Judah (as Judah only owned the IBF light welterweight title at the time); but did so anyway for the marketability of the occasion.

10) After Oktay Urkal, Kostya Tszyu fought the unbeaten Zab Judah (27-0-0 going into fight Tszyu) for his IBF light welterweight title, and to unify all light welterweight titles. Tszyu sensationally stopped Zab Judah in round 2 of a scheduled 12 round unification bout for the WBC, WBA and IBF light welterweight championships.

Judah had a very good 1st round, as Kostya Tszyu was unable to properly adjust to Judah’s speed and movement, but it wasn’t anything Kostya Tszyu hadn’t seen before or expected and as such towards the end of round 1 Kostya Tszyu had started to time Zab.

In round 2 Judah’s boxing career and life changed forever when, as Zab was backpedalling away, Kostya timed a perfect right cross that removed Zab from his senses. Judah hit the canvass and rose almost as if he had the compliance of a yet to be discovered elastic substance that could bounce.

Zab quickly rose to his feet but it was far too fast - he then tripped and stumbled with the lack of coordination and balance that Kostya Tszyu had donated courtesy of the right hand, and as such it was obvious Judah was still way too removed from his senses to safely continue in the sport.

The referee thought the same also, and just as it was all called off by him the enormity of the moment, what it meant, and perhaps more importantly, how much Zab had mouthed off beforehand; all hit Zab like a psychological version of the perfect right cross Kostya Tszyu had just used to not only rip the IBF light welterweight title from him - but to also unify all the divisions with it and make history.

With the embarrassing and spectacular stoppage, and the enormity of the overall event Judah also knew he had played the part of this show that he had, months in advance, both predicted and publicly planned for Tszyu, and with that discovery also Judah then grew increasingly agitated and irrational.

So overwhelmed and disappointed with it all was Zab that he attacked the referee by pushing his fist in his neck in an effort to claim the stoppage was unfair, and in doing so thus earned himself a suspension.

In the months later, as the emotion started to subside Zab, perhaps childishly, placed advertisements in Australian papers and engaged in other questionable tactics, seemingly in an effort to get back into title contention; trying to taunt Kostya Tszyu into rematch.

Unfortunately for Judah these were all met with Kostya Tszyu reminding Zab, the media and the public, of Judah’s prior actions, and more importantly his forecasted words before their fight; “winner takes all”.

There was no rematch.

Kostya Tszyu’s knockout win over Zab Judah not only represented his 8th KO win since his unexpected loss to Cool Vince Phillips in 1997 - it was Tszyu’s 10th straight win since then also.

Rarely in boxing does a fighter come back from a loss such as what Kostya suffered at the hands of Vince Phillips in 1997.

However, even rarer is it for someone to do it after such a loss, recover, and then still go on to take risks, and continue to win almost all of their next fights convincingly and conclusively and with such a high percentage of knockout wins - let alone to such a high level that he unifies the titles, becomes the undisputed champion, and then unnecessarily risks some of them as a demonstration of how much he believes in 1 champion per division.

This is Kostya Tszyu’s philosophy because he knows that unifying the titles is harder than jumping divisions for many reasons, including the fact that you then have less control over whom you fight.

Prior to the demolition of Zab Judah, Judah had been tearing through his opponents with a style that was perhaps best described as a unique mix of Pernell Whitakker elusiveness and speed, and Macho Camacho’s force of attack. Going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu, Zab was undefeated, and had won all 5 of his fights against credible opposition; of which only 2 had (not very) recent losses. Of those 5 fights and wins, Judah had dispatched 4 of them by KO, with the only one escaping being Junior Witter whom ran all night.

After the Kostya Tszyu loss Zab Judah went onto individually and/or combined become not only the WBC, IBF, WBO and WBA champion at either light welterweight or welterweight - but also the unified welterweight champion after defeating Corey Spinks in 2005.

In 2006 Zab fought Floyd Mayweather, and even though Judah’s most recent fight was (then) a loss to journeyman Carlos Baldomir, Floyd could not muster any better than a 12 round decision; which speaks volumes of Kostya Tszyu’s achievement against Zab Judah; as Tszyu was the first to defeat Judah and as such his defeat of Judah still remains as probably the most convincing defeat Zab Judah - a great champion - has ever experienced.

Tszyu’s KO defeat of Zab Judah was effectively his 3rd defence of Tszyu’s WBC and WBA light welterweight titles, and also the capture of the IBF light welterweight title.

It was also Tszyu’s 10th straight win since his unexpected loss to Cool Vince Phillips in 1997.

Kostya Tszyu now, after defeating Zab Judah, held the WBA, WBC and IBF light welterweight world titles and as such he earned the right to be considered one of the best light welterweight boxers of all time.

For this reason, he was inducted into boxing’s hall of fame in 1994.

Still, there were those that doubted Kostya’s technical ability, claiming he was a one dimensional slugger.

To combat this ignorant view (and those that hadn’t seen his amateur fights, including that against Vernon Forrest) Tszyu decided that, within his next fight, he would showcase his boxing skills. However to do this would mean not going for the knockout, something Kostya Tszyu abhorred.

11) After defeating Zab Judah, Kostya Tszyu fought Ben Tackie (24-2-0 going into fight Tszyu). Kostya Tszyu beat Ben Tackie in 2002 by unanimous decision and a wide margin over 12 rounds.

Tszyu could have easily stopped Tackie but opted not to, preferring to get the rounds in and substantiate that he was more than a one dimensional slugger. Although Kostya Tszyu didn’t have to, he also put up all 3 (WBC, WBA and IBF) light welterweight belts/titles for his fight with Tackie.

His fight with Tackie was Kostya Tszyu’s 1st successful defence of his WBC, WBA and IBF unified light welterweight titles.

Very few fighters in the history of boxing have gone on to become unified champions after a knockout loss such as that Kostya Tszyu experienced with Phillips - even less spectators, that is of those whom really knew - would dare superficially glancing at such achievements and claiming that those achieving them are not really at the elite level.

By the time, or rather for the same amount of fights, that Kostya Tszyu had become the unified and undisputed light welterweight champion by knocking Zab Judah senseless; Gennady Golovkin was fighting guys like Curtis Stevens and/or Osumanu Adama - defending 3G’s WBA middleweight and IBO middleweight titles.

As such it’s fair to say that Gennady Golovkin is only just now - whilst he is at about the 28th or 29th fight-mark of his career - starting to step into the seriously deep waters and consider the same achievements Kostya Tszyu was already doing at either twice the pace or with half the fights - the numbers, analysis and records don’t lie.

After defeating Ben Tackie, Kostya Tszyu then fought Jesse James Leija in Australia.

Going into the fight, Leija - who was considered to be a veteran - had impressed by a string of wins by defeating Micky Ward (37-10-0 going into fight Leija), Hector Comacho Jr. (32-0-0 going into fight Leija), Fredd Ladd (45-5-0 going into fight Leija) and Ivan Robinson (29-4-1 going into fight Leija).

12) Tszyu stopped Jesse James Leija (43-5-2 going into fight Tszyu) in round 6 of a scheduled 12 round bout.

Kostya Tszyu’s fight with Jesse James Leija was Kostya Tszyu’s 2nd defence of his WBC, WBA and IBF unified light welterweight titles, and Tszyu was not obligated to put all the belts on the line - as Jesse James Leija was only aligned with the IBF sanction previously - an alignment that hailed back to 98 when Shane Mosely stopped Leija in round 9 for the IBF light welterweight title (the same title that Kostya Tszyu had lost to Phillips).

At this point in Kostya Tszyu’s career, even though he had dispatched of Jesse James Leija quite easily, for those who knew what to look for there were signs that Kostya Tszyu was ageing as a fighter.

He was sometimes retreating with his head too high and in straight lines. Additionally, he had almost abandoned his inside game and become too reliant upon power.

Some of this neglect was due to Kostya Tszyu’s boxing-mileage and all the years in the gym, another more serious part of it all was injuries and working around them.

After the Jesse James Leija fight Kostya Tszyu was forced to undergo shoulder surgery and it and the layoff that went with it would be the turning point in Tszyu’s career. As a result Kostya Tszyu was out of the game from early 2003 through to late 2004; constituting almost 2 years on the sideline.

During that time politics and the sanctions conspired against Tszyu and it became impossible and/or impractical for him to remain as an undisputed champion. The result was that almost all but the IBF title walked from him, even though the others were not lost fighting in the ring.

However, come midway 2004 and Kostya Tszyu was claiming to be back and ready to fight.

Late 2004 and a rematch between Kostya Tszyu (who was 30-1-0 at that stage) and Sharmba Mitchell (5-3-0 going into fight Tszyu) looked set.

Mitchell, by then was convinced that he had Kostya Tszyu’s measure, particularly since Kostya Tszyu had such a long layoff and was exhibiting signs of vulnerability and slowing down prior to his break.

Sharmba’s string of victories - since his own loss to Kostya Tszyu in 2001 - over guys like, Vince Philips (Mitchell fought him in 2002 after Tszyu did in 1997), Carlos Vilches, Ben Tackie (Mitchell fought him in 2003 after Tszyu did in 2002), Lovemore Ndou, and Michael Stewart - did nothing to Mitchell other than serve to reinforce his own belief that he only previously lost to Kostya Tszyu, the first time, due to fouls; not a skill differential.

This was just the mindset Kostya Tszyu needed Sharmba Mitchell to adopt in their 2nd fight in order for Mitchell to become both the perfect southpaw and comeback fight for Kostya Tszyu; after his long layoff and shoulder surgery.

Now, with something to prove and confidence, Sharmba Mitchell would run less and come to Tszyu; allowing Kostya Tszyu to bring him onto the right hand that was made for cocky southpaws.

13) Late 2004 and Kostya Tszyu met Sharmba Mitchell (55-3-0 going into fight Tszyu) a 2nd time and knocked him out in round 3 of a scheduled 12 round championship fight.

It looked to be the perfect comeback for Kostya Tszyu as he knocked Sharmba Mitchell into oblivion in much the same way as Tszyu did to Judah; but without the referee targeted theatrics that Judah had unfortunately authored after his own knockout at the hands of Kostya Tszyu.

However, as spectacular as the win over Sharmba Mitchell was, it was not a clear indication as to where Kostya Tszyu really was.

As Sharmba Mitchell, for all the success he had since Kostya had retired him in 2001, was not really representative of the toughest challenges that were really out there in 2004, and the boxing landscape had changed a little since Kostya Tszyu had had surgery and his associated layoff.

The end result was that the 2nd Sharmba Mitchell fight/win - as good as the outcome was - didn’t really tell anyone precisely where Kostya Tszyu was in the scheme of his complete capacity to return to form and dominate, and there were now a few new kids on the light welterweight block; one of them was called Ricky Hatton.

Like Sharmba Mitchell, Hatton had beforehand feasted on a few of Kostya Tszyu’s previous victims and also his sole conqueror Vince Phillips.

The result was Hatton was ready for the big time, he didn’t want to waste any more time getting there, and he had given his promoter Frank Warren the ultimatum to make the Kostya Tszyu fight.

By the time Kostya Tszyu had travelled to Manchester England in mid 2005 and was ready to fight Ricky Hatton, Kostya Tszyu had only fought 3 rounds (the 3 rounds it took to blow out Sharmba Mitchell) since the start of 2003.

That’s 3 rounds in almost 2 and a half years! Add to it all, Kostya Tszyu hadn’t had a grueling and fast paced fight - or one where he could, or had the need to, in some way control the tempo - since 2001 when he fought Oktay Urkal.

Frank Warren, who no one could reasonably be slapped for considering to be as shrewd as Bricktop in the movie Snatch, of course knew all this and had also seen the signs of slippage in Kostya Tszyu that I above refer to.

He no doubt salivated over the prospect of having his own inhouse fighter collect the scalp of such a marketable fighter as Kostya Tszyu - particularly at such a point in time when almost everyone had not noticed what he had of Tszyu; the above-mentioned slippage.

The signs of significant wear and tear and slippage that slowly creep into a fighter’s game are something promoters and matchmakers are astute in detecting. It’s their bread and butter to see when these tell tale indictors that opponents unknowingly display finally become significant enough so that an advantage exists for their stable that can be quietly maximized to such an extent that it can be opportunistically seized upon as a weakness - but not in any noticeable way that causes suspicion or increases the paying public’s awareness of what the opportunity and aforementioned slippage really means to them, and more importantly the odds.

There’s very little difference between these thoughts and considerations to setting someone up for a hiding - except of course if you get it all right and flog the guy, you also make a lot of money and increase your chances to do it all over again to someone else.

The winner of the Kostya Tszyu V Ricky Hatton fight was expected to advance and most likely get to fight Mayweather, although that was never set in stone and no-one from the Mayweather camp ever offered Kostya Tszyu the ability to fight Mayweather.

Still, the lucrative nature of the deal and opportunity to eventually fight Floyd appealed greatly to Tszyu, Warren and Hatton.

Who can blame them with all the money to be made in boxing.

Going into his 2005 fight with Kostya Tszyu, Ricky Hatton’s previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Ray Oliviera: Ray Oliviera (47-9-2 going into fight Hatton) was KOd in round 10 over a 12 round bout for Hatton’s WBU light welterweight title. Yes, this is the same Oliviera that I mention above that fought BenTackie, Vince Phillips, and Charles Murray.

4) Michael Stewart: Michael Stewart (36-2-2 going into fight Hatton) was KOd in round 5 over a 12 round bout for Hatton’s WBU light welterweight title. This is the same Stewart that fought Ivan Robinson, Sharmba Mitchell, Terron Millet, Vince Phillips, and Charles Murray.

3) Carlos Vilches: Carlos Vilches (41-4-2 going into fight Hatton) lost to Hatton in a unanimous decision over 12 rounds for Hatton’s WBU light welterweight title. This is the same Vilches that fought Juan Urango, Sharmba Mitchell, and Emmanuel Augustus.

2) Dennis Pederson: Dennis Pederson (44-2-0 going into fight Hatton) was KOd in round 6 over a 12 round bout for Hatton’s WBU light welterweight title.

1) Ben Tackie: Ben Tackie (24-4-0 going into fight Hatton) lost to Hatton in a unanimous decision over 12 rounds for Hatton’s WBU light welterweight title. This is the same Ben Tackie that fought Kostya Tszyu, Sharmba Mitchell, Ray Oliviera, Freddie Pendleton, Kendall Holt, Teddy Reid, and Mathew Hatton.

And 2 fights prior to Ben Tackie, in 2003, Ricky Hatton had also extended Cool Vince Phillips to a points decision over 12 hard rounds in Manchester England.

So in Ricky Hatton’s mind he was ready for Kostya Tszyu.

14) Midway through 2005 Ricky Hatton met Kostya Tszyu in Manchester England for Tszyu’s IBF light welterweight title, and stopped Tszyu in the 11th round of their 12 round title fight; when Tszyu didn’t come out for round 12.

The fight between Hatton and Tszyu was grueling, tough, colorful, and it served to be an example of great timing (on Warren’s part), and both how well prepared Hatton was and also the effectiveness of utilizing the correct strategy.

Hatton never achieved the same heights again for various reasons, and the Tszyu he fought in 2005 was, in my opinion, not a patch on the guy that showed up for Miguel Angel Gonzales, Jan Bergman, Oktay Urkal, or Rafael Ruelas.

That completes a brief biography or memoir of Kostya Tszyu and how Gennady Golovkin’s brilliant, but not quite as stellar, achievements may compare.



I note that you also present moving up in weight, or Kostya Tszyu’s lack of it, as a reason for not being elite.

There is no requirement to move up in weight to be elite.

It is actually far more “elite” to be considered the undisputed champion in one weight division, and staying there and demonstrating your superiority; before running off to another.

This is why all the old timer boxing aficionados (like Bert Sugar) always say words to the effect; “back in the old days there was one champion for one division”.

None of the guys that moved up that you have mentioned in an effort to diminish Kostya Tszyu’s achievements; were ever completely undisputed.

Hmmm, now I wonder why is that?

It’s because unifying the divisions and then defending all belts in that context is a much stronger example of your superiority than moving up in weights; particularly considering that most professional boxers these days are all starving down and competing in a lower division if they can metabolically get away with it.

Moving up in weight is admirable, but it’s also a (very well known) way to escape a danger and/or loss that can't be escaped if you stay in 1 division and 1 sanction. Times that difficulty by three when you unify all the (legitimate) titles and stay there to defend them.

This is what Kostya Tszyu did.

I note also that 3G has not yet unified the middleweight, or light middleweight titles yet.

OK, onto Zab Judah; a great champion 27-0-0 {going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}. At the time Kostya Tszyu fought Zab he was undefeated, and was (rightly so) deemed the next big thing.

Tszyu destroyed him.

I still think Judah’s skills were awesome, but a KO of the ilk that he wore from Russia and Tszyu is bound to change the confidence and/or career path of anyone.

Yes, Judah caught Kostya Tszyu early and did very well with it too. But that just speaks volumes more of what Tszyu did in not being deterred and still landing that devastating KO that was considered one of the most spectacular of all time.

Kostya Tszyu displayed the same tenacity after his loss to Vince Phillips also, as that just made him more determined and from it all he then unified the light welterweight titles and in doing so went onto 10 more straight wins, 8 of them by KO.

That’s unheard of these days.

Even several years after Kostya Tszyu blew out Judah, Mayweather still fought Judah to a (close) points win; so I am not sure about some of your comparisons between Tszyu’s previous opponents who then, later - after Kostya Tszyu clearly beat them - went on to be beaten by the guys you offer up as better quality fighters; supposedly because others beat them easier and/or after Kostya beat them.

That logic is flawed as it (deliberately in my view) doesn’t allow for the fact that guys deteriorate over time, and particularly after a few losses.

Mayweather struggled with Zab’s speed and southpaw stance and I have no doubt this is why he is cautious with Pacquiao; whom represents all that Judah was both when Kostya Tszyu met him and before Kostya Tszyu knocked him out.

Zab had even been beaten by other guys after Tszyu got to him, but Floyd still didn’t want to take the risks associated with going for the KO when he fought Judah, and that’s the difference between Kostya Tszyu and some of the comparisons you make.

Tszyu believed in himself to a higher degree that it enabled him to take greater risks and be more entertaining as a seek and destroy fighter.

Sure Floyd knocked out Hatton and fought him with greater overall success than Kostya Tszyu did.

But Kostya Tszyu didn’t go in there against Ricky Hatton all risk averse as Floyd did either, he didn’t fight Hatton in Manchester either, instead Tszyu went to war; as Hatton did to Mayweather.

If you look at Hatton’s attempt with Mayweather, Hatton actually troubled Floyd quite a lot before he tired and completely lost his game-plan. Yes, I know it’s still a win for Floyd, but it’s also a lot easier to sit back and wait for your opponent to get tired too, as Floyd did.

Kostya Tszyu used to go out and from round 1 it was on. Floyd will sit back and let you take the initiative and then clean up later.

Hatton’s camp before the Mayweather fight was extremely poor as well, so there are considerations that appear skimmed over when one simply says that fighter “A” that lost to fighter “B” must be less of a fighter than fighter “C”; because fighter “C” may beat fighter “B” - which is the logic you seem to be working with at times.

Boxing has shown time and time again that that approach doesn’t work.

However, if that approach does work then we can - by your own logic - say that Kostya Tszyu was better than Oscar DeLaHoya, as Kostya certainly destroyed both Julio Cesar Chavez and Miguel Angel Gonzalez in far more dominant fashion.

Chavez never demanded a rematch with Tszyu.

When you go for the KO, as Kostya Tszyu always did and Floyd rarely does (regardless of whether you're an undisputed champion or not) boxing is a far different and more dangerous game. And I don’t dislike Mayweather, I think he’s very good; but in short it’s harder to “play” the game of boxing when you're going for the KO all the time - that’s why Floyd doesn’t do it and Pacquiao did.

Aside from the exception of fights like that with Ben Tackie, where Kostya Tszyu wanted to show he could box - Kostya Tszyu almost always went for the KO. Even when all 3 light welterweight titles were (unnecessarily) placed on the line.

By the way there was a time when - whilst going for the KO in his fights - Kostya Tszyu’s hit and miss rate (something Mayweather is held in high regard for) was right on par with Mayweather’s; whom is a great champion and highly skilled - but also undoubtedly risk averse and carefully matched.

The difference was Mayweather’s KO rate was way below Kostya Tszyu’s.

Could you imagine Kostya Tszyu threatening to hold up a major fight because his opponent wanted to wear (legal) gloves that allegedly made a KO easier; as Floyd did with Madiana recently? Think about it?

I reckon Kostya Tszyu would smirk and say bring it on.

In summary Kostya Tszyu actually beat Sharmba Mitchell and Zab Judah better and also when they were more far more dangerous than when Mayweather fought them; yet you claim that Kostya Tszyu is not elite because of a challenge from Mayweather that he allegedly didn’t accept; that actually never took place.

That, like the claim 3G has achieved more and is on another level, is an interesting approach to the sport in my opinion.

Also, with the champions you mentioned that were (apparently) the best Kostya Tszyu faced, you left out of a lot.

Of those worthy of mention there are; Rafael Ruelas {52-3-0 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, Miguel Angel Gonzales {43-1-1 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, Julio Cesar Chavez {103-4-2 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, Angel Hernandez {40-1-2 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, Oktay Urkal {28-0-0 and unbeaten going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, Roger Mayweather {54-11-0 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, Hugo Pineda {27-0-1 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu}, and . . . . . Jake Rodriguez {26-2-2 going into the fight with Kostya Tszyu} whom was Kostya Tszyu’s 1st IBF world title success in his 12th fight.

You did mention some, but not all.

Unfortunately I don’t see any names on Gennady Golovkin’s resume that match that line up - does anyone here?

I have provided more detail on Kostya Tszyu’s above-mentioned opponents, their achievements, and (where applicable) their undefeated status (when Kostya Tszyu fought them) and previous championships held (when Kostya Tszyu fought them), above in my comparison to Gennady Golovkin’s achievements and rate of progress.

It’s also important to remember that most of Kostya Tszyu’s opponents, were the best available at the time, and he either KO’d or retired them in the fight.

Many were not the same afterwards, and this is why it’s easy to look at say, what Floyd did with Sharmba Mitchell (I think he KOd him in round 6) and forget that Tszyu, years earlier when Mitchell was a light welterweight champion and then also afterwards for the second time; roughed Mitchell up the 1st time and then took him apart the 2nd time.

From there, when Sharmba Mitchell surely knew his limitations and was gun shy, Floyd still took 6 rounds to dispatch him. But by then Floyd was - as he says with the common opponents he has with Manny Pacquiao (eg; Hatton) - making a name off of Kostya Tszyu’s scraps and/or leftovers, and still not besting Kostya Tszyu’s efforts.

Tszyu took on Sharmba Mitchell (and Judah) when he believed in himself and was dangerous.

Oscar DeLaHoya; another great champion that you use as a measuring stick for Kostya Tszyu.

Oscar lost almost all of his most significant fights - not so with Kostya Tszyu. So I am not sure about your logic there either.

In the amateurs Oscar knew who Kostya Tszyu was and he wanted no part of Kostya. Furthermore, I didn’t see Top Rank or anyone that had anything to do with managing Oscar really going out of their way to make a fight with Kostya when he was a professional.

I think, if you check, Kostya Tszyu made a far greater mess out of Ruelas, Chavez, and Gonzalez and any other common opponent he has to Oscar, than Oscar himself did to them. So, I am not sure that Oscar is an elite fighter that you measure Kostya Tszyu by - more the other way around.

Neither Oscar or Floyd - your two elite fighters you hold above Kostya Tszyu - have ever completely unified their weight divisions and in fact they were both notoriously known for heavy contractual demands and jumping weight when things didn’t suit them.

Not so with Tszyu, he unnecessarily placed titles and belts on the line, sometimes all of them unnecessarily in unification bouts; as an indicator of who he was.

Hell, all those in the fight fame knew that DeLaHoya’s management wanted no part of Roman Karmazin (another Eastern Bloc trained fighter) and Winky Wright, and both those guys were not a patch on Kostya Tszyu.

“It’s a shame he never fought Del la Hoya, Mayweather, or Mosely.....Then we could have better gaged where he stood amongst the other elite fighters”.

It’s actually not a shame or accident for Oscar that he never fought Kostya Tszyu, because Kostya Tszyu was always there during Oscar’s rise but he wasn’t interested because he knew it would be a very tough assignment.

Take a good look at the kinds of guys Oscar struggled with and/or avoided, most of them are less accomplished than Kostya Tszyu.

I think that deals with the fantasy of who is elite and whether Oscar was better than Kostya Tszyu.

Now back to Gennady Golovkin.

3G’s 1st truly legitimate world title fight was against Nilson Julio Tapia (14-2-1 going into the fight with Golovkin) in 3G’s 20th fight, and even then it was a WBA title - there are 3 of them for every division!

By comparison in Kostya Tszyu’s 13th fight he had a legitimate IBF world title and fought Jake Rodriguez, whose credentials are above provided.

Consequently there is no comparison between Kostya Tszyu’s pace of progress, how he tested himself and his achievements; with Gennady Golovkin’s.

Being critical here, but whilst Gennady Golovkin is playing around with a WBA title in his 20th fight - by the same point in Kostya Tszyu’s career he had already successfully defended his legitimate IBF title about 5 times and was on his way to completely unifying the entire light welterweight division via the above-mentioned streak of KO wins against known, respected and legitimate fighters such as Ruelas, Grove, Hurtado, Gonzalez, Urkal, and Judah; many of whom were either in their prime, undefeated and/or still excellent fighters and champions when Kostya Tszyu fought them.

Yet - despite the above research that clearly shows the (suspect) caliber of opposition 3G really has feasted on - you're telling me that Gennady Golovkin is better and in a whole different level to Kostya Tszyu.

Man I want what you're smoking - just kidding. 

I agree Gennady Golovkin is really good and has great potential, but if the guy - in his 20th fight - is fighting for a WBA middleweight title against a guy called Nilson Julio Tapia whose 14-2-1 going into his fight with Golovkin (and with the above-mentioned {and now exposed} level of dubious competition); don’t you think Gennady Golovkin’s opponent is a bit soft when compared to Kostya Tszyu?

I mean, Nilson Julio Tapia’s record isn’t even as good as Hector Lopez’ - whom (you were not impressed with) Kostya Tszyu fought in his 10th fight simply as a way of saying “USA, I’m here and ready for any boxer with a light welterweight title or gate to it”.

Going into his fight with Kostya Tszyu, Hector Lopez, an Olympian, was professionally 26-2-1; against good the quality opposition that I have above-mentioned.

Yet not only do you find ridicule in this, but instead you're so high on a guy (Gennady Golovkin) that in his 20th fight (effectively) fought for (one third of) a WBA middleweight title (as there are 3 WBA titles for every division) against a guy called Nilson Julio Tapia (who was 14-2-1 going in with Gennady Golovkin); that you somehow think this is better than Kostya Tszyu’s achievements.

Come on dawg - you just hating the undisputed with the big KO power in the right hand that’s not interested in wastin time with fools that offer him nuthin in the way of boxing glory.

Almost anyone in professional boxing (aside from genuine and hot prospects with a great amateur record and both blazing and proven professional skills) with a record of 14-2-1 (like Nilson Julio Tapia had when going in with 3G) that’s either defending a world title or challenging for one, is just keeping the seat warm for the real dog that’s going to move in later.

It’s (the 14-2-1 bit) a dead set sign that the WBA title was almost given to Gennady Golovkin.

Even if it was Gennady Golovkin’s 13th pro fight - which it wasn’t - and even if the WBA was not a championship belt charity with 3 belts for every weight - which it is; 14-2-1 and/or Nilson Julio Tapia aint no Jake Rodriguez and a legitimate IBF title.

Gennady Golovkin took 20 fights to get 1/3 of where Kostya Tszyu was in 13, and you're telling us that Gennady Golovkin is on a whole different level - and the dude hasn’t yet completely unified the titles with legitimate sanctions and fought the same guys Kostya Tszyu has?

Come on dawg, you making me scream as I write this. I can't believe you can be so passionate about something so obviously distorted.

This doesn’t mean Gennady Golovkin is not a good fighter - but to assume his credentials are better than Kostya Tszyu’s to the extent that he is on another level, when Gennady Golovkin hasn’t proven that; whether or not you rubbish Lopez as a (blind) means of supporting your case; that’s a whole different story - that reveals as much about your approach and numbers game, as this piece does about how 3G compares to Kostya Tszyu.

Anyway, as it happens, surprise, surprise, there’s hardly anyone on Nilson Julio Tapia’s record that I can recognize.

Perhaps you can help there? Anyway, just because I know you love Gennady Golovkin lets check to make sure I haven’t been naughty with my numbers and estimates. . . .

Going into his 2010 WBA middleweight title fight with Gennady Golovkin, Nilson Julio Tapia’s (who? had a 14-2-1 going in with Gennady Golovkin) previous 5 fights read like this in reverse chronological order;

5) Jorge Heiland: Jorge Heiland (16-1-0 going into fight Tapia) was beaten by Tapia on points over the full 10 rounds for what was called a Fedelation middleweight title. This was the fight and guy Tapia had right before he fought Gennady Golovkin. Nothing in Heiland (or Tapia) screams to me that Tapia or Gennady Golovkin are stepping things up as much as say, a guy like Hector Lopez represents (who was professionally 26-2-1 going in with Kostya Tszyu); even if you pretend Kostya Tszyu fought Hector Lopez in his 20th fight (rather than his 10th, as was the case).

4) Reward Marti: Reward Marti (6-0-1 going into fight Tapia) was KO’d in round 2 over a scheduled 9 round bout by Tapia for what was called a Fedelation middleweight title. Marti was down 2 times in the 1st round and his corner had to urge him to continue. Hmm this guy, with 6 fights under his belt, must have really extended Tapia and prepared him well for Gennady Golovkin and that WBA title.

3) Victor Gonzalez: Victor Gonzalez (5-2-0 going into fight Tapia) was KOd in round 1 over a scheduled 8 round bout. Please see closing comments for Reward Marti (who?), as they also, sadly, apply here; nuff said.

2) Austin Trout: Austin Trout (10-0-0 going into fight Tapia) beat Tapia on points over an 11 round bout for what was called a Fedelation middleweight title that Trout (understandably) didn’t bother with. From this fight Tapia clearly learnt to lessen the competition as he approached one third of a (probably promised) WBA title.

1) Alfonso Mosquera: Alfonso Mosquera (19-6-0 going into fight Tapia) was beaten by Tapia on points over the full 11 rounds for what was called a Fedelation middleweight title.

Little wonder it is then that Gennady Golovkin, in his 20th fight for the WBA middleweight title, knocked out Nilson Julio Tapia in 3 rounds of their scheduled 12 round fight; in what was Gennady Golovkin’s first truly legitimate world title success.

Only problem was, when Gennady Golovkin arrived as the WBA middleweight champion there were already 2 other WBA middleweight champions, and I am not sure how well that sits with Kostya Tszyu’s achievements whether or not they're the ones you have considered or disregarded.

In any respect from the above I think it’s fair to say that Nilson Julio Tapia doesn’t even represent as stern a challenge to Gennady Golovkin in his 20th and first (WBA) world title fight, as Hector Lopez did to Kostya Tszyu, in what was Kostyas’ 10 professional fight; let alone represent the challenge that Tszyu faced with his own first world title (and 13th) fight again Jake Rodriguez.

As mentioned above, Kostya Tszyu’s 1st legitimate world title was against Jake Rodriguez, and Rodriguez had previously fought Felix Trinidad, Charles Murray, Ray Oliveira. All of whom were reasonably well known contenders and/or fighters, and nothing like Nilson Julio Tapia, Amar Amari and/or John Carvalho; whom mark out Gennady Golovkin’s much slower, more questionable, and clearly more measured rise to fame and world title contention/success.

Aside from this, I will leave it to you (and readers) to peruse through the rest of 3G’s record of whom he fought (and who they fought) at the same time/fight-number as Kostya Tszyu.

Take a look and see whom 3G fought and what their record is, then compare to whom Kostya Tszyu fought at the same time or before, and I am sure you will see that there’s not really a real comparison there that supports the view that Gennady Golovkin is on another level; as the only way you can come to that conclusion is to bypass all the knowledge and information that I have above provided.

As Radam G says, there are optical illusions everywhere, particularly in the sport of boxing.

Records, like advertisements that seem to sell you something you don’t need as if you do, can look good when they're really not.

If there was a piece of advice from all this I would give, it would be to perhaps not be so easily marketed to.

Gennady Golovkin is an excellent fighter, he has great potential, and he has awesome power; particularly whilst his opponents can't neutralize what he is doing in there and his management team are taking care of business.

But his rate of progress, belief in himself, skills and achievements are clearly not quite where Kostya Tszyu has been.

Consequently as a detailed investigation shows, Gennady Golovkin is not on a whole other level at all; but Kostya Tszyu actually is.

Oh by the way, do you happen to have a video that shows Gennady Golovkin in his amateur days noticeably displaying more skills than Kostya Tszyu did in his fight with Vernon Forrest?

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