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Thread: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

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    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.


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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Recently there has been some debate as to whether Floyd Mayweather is within his (perceived or otherwise) rights to call Gennady Golovkin out and suggest he move up in weight to super middleweight, if indeed - as is often claimed by Triple’s camp and management - there is no one to fight at light middleweight.

    We all know the background to the matter.

    Floyd (whom is easily one of the most skillful and accomplished boxers of all time) is perceived as to have been so selective and cautious with his choice and timing of opponents that many feel he is in no position to call Gennady Golovkin out on such matters of risk, opponent, and challenge.

    Then there is also the fact that Gennady Golovkin (whom is easily one of the strongest, most dedicated, uniquely equipped, and experienced {particularly in the sense that amateur boxing skills [especially those from another country that are not incredibly well known to some fighters/teams] cross over into the professional ranks} Eastern Bloc middleweight boxers to rip through the professional boxing ranks of Kazakhstan, Europe, and the USA in a long time; but somehow) more often than not seems to always end up in the ring with guys that are significantly less experienced and capable than himself.

    Time (year) and time (year) again, and . . . . . .

    For a sport like boxing - even if you have the skills and pedigree that Gennady Golovkin has - that, in itself, is quite exceptional.


    Additionally, there is also the almost cult like phenomenon associated with the legions of fans whom (despite and/or because of the above) simply adore ridiculing Floyd Mayweather for his perceived indiscretions and seemingly risk averse approach to the sport - whilst at the same time, comparatively, Gennady Golovkin is almost deified.


    So, what's the real story?

    Is it like MayPac where the outcome of that fight was, even prior to the fight, so obvious that when it finally happened (some of) the same legions of fans chose to both reject it and manufacture their own script; possibly giving rise to the above-mentioned phenomenon?

    Or is it that Gennady Golovkin fights whose in front of him - can't help it if those whom are due to fight him and/or are scared, run - and despite it all he still knocks most guys out whilst also looking to deliver an exciting performance, almost every time; and this alone is enough to justify the disparity in how Gennady Golovkin (whether or not he challenges himself in equal proportions to Floyd Mayweather) is perceived and treated?

    Or is it that Floyd Mayweather’s selection of opponents, skills, and accomplishments easily places him in front and up on the higher ground to such an extent that we should (just as if Sugar Ray Leonard was providing advice to and upcoming Oscar DeLa Hoya) respect and accept that Floyd Mayweather can “advise from afar” as to what Gennady Golovkin should do about the circumstances that both he and his team routinely find themselves in and utilize as justification for the opponents they fight and how many of his fights seem to have a predetermined outcome?


    Well, let’s find out.

    Before we start though . . . .

    Just for the record; with respect to (i) fighting the better opposition, and (ii) taking greater risks and (iii) challenges, and also (iv) being of such appropriate stature within boxing that it justifies your provided/personalized advice being both respected and heralded; personally, I don’t care whom between Floyd Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin is in a better position in relation to all of that.

    I’m just interested in the facts, and of course, how it all works.


    OK, let’s get into it.

    Sure - regardless of what anyone says - Triple can do as he wants, as he is the middleweight king right now.

    Also, at middleweight there have been quite a few guys/champions that clearly don't want to fight him.

    No-one can deny that.

    Same for the facts that;

    A) There are also other challenges out there for Triple that he himself seems to never see.

    B) Triple, a unified middleweight champion, at 36 fights, is yet to have a truly challenging and signature middleweight fight.


    And yes (as Deep above puts it in his post #4 http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...l=1#post104184 ) the king of the division doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do.


    That should apply, whether he be the king of;

    A) The middleweight division (Triple).

    B) Or, the welterweight division (Floyd; now retired).


    Any consideration other and/or less than that is inconsistent.

    As is the suggestion (set) that;

    A) Floyd should come out of retirement and move up from welterweight to fight Triple.

    B) Whilst - at the same time - the same interest and emphasis is absent for Triple to fight guys in super middleweight.


    In my humble opinion (save for a few oversights that will I will look at later in this post) Frank's article . . .

    Those Calling on GGG to Move Up Share a Lot With Mayweather Detractors

    http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...her-Detractors


    Is reasonably spot on.

    But anyone's suggestion or inference that Triple is now at his natural weight (division) and therefore - based on that - Gennady can't or shouldn't move up in weight . . . .

    Is a little questionable in my view.


    As it is clear by the weight Triple gains after the last weigh-in before most of his fights that he could easily fight at super middleweight - or even light heavyweight.

    However, doing so would give away some of his advantages though.


    It should also be noted that, at the Summit gym, Triple certainly has no trouble building his reputation for both, having serious spars and also hurting guys whom campaign within the super middleweight and light heavyweight divisions.


    Yes, yes . . . I know that's just sparring.

    But - as any experienced fighter will also know - sometimes sparring is tougher than fighting.

    Especially when bigger/heavier guys feel they're not getting respected from the lower weight divisions.


    Anyway, as always, some facts are always useful to apply to the debate both, discussed at the beginning of this post/thread and also raised within Frank’s above-mentioned and linked good post/piece.


    Here are a few . . . . .

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    1) Floyd has never stated he would fight Triple at middleweight; still that doesn’t mean we can't pretend he will for the purposes of getting beaten.

    Please see below point "C". (Which I will add in later sections).


    2) Triple and Abel Sanchez - themselves - openly and publicly stated (and with some fanfare) that Triple would fight anyone from light middleweight to super middleweight.

    Thus far they have failed to honor that commitment on numerous occasions.


    3) When Floyd (at the end of his career) fought Berto the fight was labeled a farce by many, and a good deal of them labeling it a farce were possibly the same that (by comparison) are noticeably quiet about how much (more?) the outcome of the Triple V Brook fight was predetermined.

    All the advantages for Triple (against Brook {and also some other 3GTypicalOpponents}) were stacked far higher than those for Floyd when in against Berto.

    And Triple is in his prime now and (unlike Floyd was when he fought Andre Berto) not closing out his career.


    4) For his 18th fight Floyd fought Genaro Hernandez (38-1-1 going in) for the WBC featherweight title, and won.

    Prior to Floyd, Hernandez had lost only once before (to Oscar DeLaHoya; at lightweight) and in his career Hernandez had successfully made numerous title defences.


    5) Despite the fact that Genaro Hernandez was past his prime when Floyd fought him, even today - with Triple's fight count sitting around 35 - there still appears be no opponent Gennady Golovkin has faced that is (pound for pound) an equal to Hernandez.

    Particularly in terms of Genaro Hernandez's experience and championship achievements.


    6) For comparison; for his 18th fight Triple fought Mikhail Makarov whom was undefeated at 10 fights (10-0-0 going in) but had achieved that record against a mixed bag of opponents mainly consisting of guys with little experience and/or significant losses.

    As far as challenges and competition goes (pound for pound) there is no comparison between Mikhail Makarov and (even an aging) Genaro Hernandez.


    7) For Floyd's 20th fight he fought Carlos Alberto Ramon Rios (44-2-1 going in) for the WBC super featherweight title, and won.

    Prior to Floyd, Rios had lost only twice before (to Luisito Espinosa and Cesar Soto; both of whom had formidable records) and in his career Rios had unsuccessfully made a single title defence - against Luisito Espinosa.

    After Floyd, Rios had mixed results and lost most of his title bids.


    8) For comparison; for his 20th fight Triple fought Nilson Julio Tapia whom was (14-2-1 going in).

    Prior to fighting Golovkin, Nilson had won and lost various versions of the WBA Fedelatin middleweight title; whatever that is.

    Nilson's first (and last) shot at the WBA middleweight title came against Triple, whom stopped him.


    Notice the difference in competition between Floyd and Triple’s 20th (and previous) opponents/fights?

    One was 44-2-1 (Carlos Alberto Ramon Rios) going in and the other was 14-2-1 going in (Nilson Julio Tapia).


    --------------------------------- Part 2 --------------------------------


    9) Floyd's first move up in weight; For Floyd's 28th fight he fought Jose Luis Castillo (45-4-1 going in) for the WBC world lightweight title, and won.

    Prior to Floyd, Castillo had lost four times (to Cesar Soto, Javier Jauregui, and Julio Alvarez) with all those losses - some involving KO’s - pertaining to domestic Mexican super/featherweight titles.

    Mixed in with those results for Jose Luis Castillo (prior to his fighting Floyd) were also;

    A) Approximately 7 wins pertaining to domestic Mexican super/featherweight titles.

    B) 3 successful defences of a WBC lightweight title (that was won off of Stevie Johnston) and also a successful bid for the IBA super featherweight title.

    Amongst Castillo’s above-mentioned (pre-Floyd) successful title shots and defences he faced a mixed bag of opponents and scored quite a few KO wins.

    In the year prior to facing Floyd, Jose Luis Castillo had successfully defended the WBC lightweight title that he won off of Stevie Johnston twice; once with Cesar Bazan (38-3-1 going in) and another with Seung-Ho Yuh (13-1-1 going in).

    Additionally, prior to meeting Floyd, Castillo also dispatched - by KO - of 2 other guys in non title fights.

    They were; Juan Angel Macias (26-15-2 going in) and Fred Llad (45-6-0 going in).

    Both Floyd’s fights against Jose Luis Castillo were considered to be some of the best examples of action packed modern day lightweight title fights of their era.

    That said, Castillo was both underestimated (no doubt due to his previous losses) and also pretty much in his prime when Floyd fought him.

    Furthermore, after Floyd beat him (in addition to delivering some of the most action packed modern day lightweight title fights against Diego Corrales) Jose Luis Castillo still went on to successfully regain the WBC lightweight title - against very good competition - on numerous occasions.


    10) For his 28th fight Triple (still at the same weight and putting his WBA and IBO middleweight titles on the line) fought Curtis Stevens whom was (25-3-0 going) in.

    Prior to fighting Golovkin, Stevens had won and lost various domestic and NABF versions of middleweight, super middleweight, and light heavyweight titles . . . . .

    But - until he met Gennady Golovkin - Curtis Stevens had never fought for a legitimate, fully matured, and well recognized title in his life.

    Furthermore, almost all of Curtis’ losses (going into fight Triple) were in the above-mentioned domestic and NABF title fights; with Stevens also supporting a loss to Andre Dirrell - whom Triple had already (lost to in the amateurs, but also) beaten for an Olympic medal.


    Gennady Golovkin fought Curtis Stevens after Triple had knocked out Matthew Macklin (whom was easily more experienced at the championship level than Stevens), and needless to say . . . Triple knocked Curtis Stevens out to successfully defend his middleweight titles.

    Curtis Stevens was overmatched.


    11) Even aside from the facts that;

    A) Castillo - within his fight(s) with Floyd Mayweather - was clearly not overmatched; at least nowhere near as Stevens was with Gennady Golovkin.

    B) Unlike Floyd Mayweather with Jose Luis Castillo, when Gennady Golovkin fought Curtis Stevens he did not move up in weight.

    It is extremely doubtful that Curtis Stevens represents (pound for pound) anywhere near an equal to Jose Luis Castillo.

    In fact, even today with Triple's fight count sitting around 35, there still appears to be no opponent Triple has faced that is the equivalent of Jose Luis Castillo.


    Food for thought.


    12) By the time Floyd had successfully moved up in weight for the first time - from super featherweight to lightweight (to fight Jose Luis Castillo) - it could easily be argued that Floyd had already fought guys with experience and records that Triple’s record, even now (let alone at equal places in their careers) seems to lack.


    13) During these times, I don’t believe that Floyd ever said that he would fight everyone from super featherweight to super lightweight.

    Yet - regardless of whether he did or did not say such things - to a great extent, and perhaps with some exceptions, Floyd pretty much did it anyway.


    14) To recap; Triple and Sanchez - at a far, far, more advanced/experienced stage in Triple’s career (than that referred to above in Floyd’s career) - have previously said that Triple would fight everyone from light middleweight to super middleweight.

    Yet, thus far, they have not (imagine the uproar if Floyd Mayweather had committed this “crime”).

    Instead, immediately after raising questions about Canelo’s similarly questionable actions . . . . .

    Triple (after negotiations for his proposed fight with Eubank Jr. fell through) jumped at (not, Erislandy Lara, whom campaigns one weight below Triple's weight division {advantage 3G}, currently holds 2 light middleweight world titles, has offered himself to 3G previously for a showdown, and was arguably also a better opponent than both Brook and Eubank Jr.) the chance to fight a guy (Kell Brook) that usually campaigns at welterweight.

    You may all recall that Kell Brook is a guy that Triple had previously (to actually fighting him) stated (on video) was too small for him to fight.

    Also, please note that Brook is a guy whom possesses far, far, less of both; a challenge than Lara and experience than Triple.

    To such an extent that it was remarkable how;

    A) Much of a foregone conclusion the Brook V Triple fight really was.

    B) Many people (some experienced commentators within the industry) convinced themselves that Kell Brook would see the final bell.


    A good question might be, when the fight with Eubank Jr. fell through, why didn't Triple (and those whom were disappointed with some of Floyd's opponent choices) simply say . . .

    "Look, it's not reasonable for me/Triple as a middleweight to fight a guy that usually campaigns at welterweight . . . .

    Instead I will try to make a fight with Erislandy Lara whom; is willing to fight to me, has called me out, gave Canelo {whom is running from me} a tough fight previously, has excellent amateur and professional pedigrees, and also several titles I want"
    .


    --------------------------------- Part 3 --------------------------------


    15) Floyd's second move up in weight; For Floyd's 35th fight he fought Arturo Gatti - whom was (39-6-0) going in and - in doing so Mayweather seized Gatti's WBC super lightweight title in a sensationally disrespectful and utterly dominating performance.

    Prior to Floyd, Gatti had lost six times {to King Solomon (5-1-3 going in), Angel Manfredy (22-2-1 going in), Ivan Robinson (25-2-0 & 26-2-0 going in), Oscar De La Hoya (32-2-0 going in), and Micky Ward (37-11- 0 going in)}; with two of those losses involving KO’s courtesy of Oscar De La Hoya and Angel Manfredy.

    Furthermore, none of these losses Gatti experienced were in relation to titles.

    Prior to meeting Floyd, Gatti had either successfully won or defended various versions of super featherweight and super lightweight titles, with international and domestic sanctions such as WBC, IBF and USBA against opposition that ranged from reasonable to very good and included; Jesse James Leija (47-6-2 going in), Leonard Dorin (22-0-1 going in), Gianluca Branco (32-0-1 going in), Gabriel Ruelas (44-3-0 going in), Tracy Harris Patterson (54-3-1 & 57-4-1 going in), Richard Salazar (13-5-2 going in), Wilson Rodriguez (21-10-3 going in), Jose Sanabria (21-10-3 going in), and Pete Taliaferro (25-2-0 going in).

    Prior to meeting Floyd, Arturo Gatti had never lost a title fight.

    Also, depending on how you look at it Gatti was probably just past (or still in) his prime when Floyd fought him, and (like many of Triple’s opponents) he was in way above his head against Floyd.

    Still, by time Gatti met Floyd, he had been involved in some of the most action packed modern day light welterweight title/fights, including his trilogy against Micky Ward and also his fights with Reulas, Patterson, Oscar, and Leija.

    In terms of being an action packed modern day light welterweight title/fight . . . .

    Gatti’s fight with Floyd was no exception.

    But for reasons Gatti would probably prefer to forget - the beat-down he received was that bad.

    After Floyd beat Gatti, Arturo went onto successfully challenge for the IBA welterweight title against Thomas Damgaard (37-0-0 going in); but then after beating Damgaard he lost that title in an unsuccessful bid for Carlos Manuel Baldomir’s (42-9-6 going in) WBC welterweight title.


    (Please note; Gatti was not Floyd's first fight at WBC super lightweight, but it was his first major/title fight at that weight).


    16) Despite how Arturo Gatti is these days considered to be an easy fight for Floyd, the fact remains that (pound for pound) Gatti - particularly in terms of experience and skill - still represents an average example and/or analog to the skills and experience that Triple’s usual/current opponents possesses.

    And that is being generous to Gennady Golovkin.

    As almost all of 3G's opponents lack either the skills, championship experience, or accomplishments, (or all) that Gatti had going into fight Floyd.


    This is because, at best, Gatti represents an opponent that is (if not significantly, then still) slightly above the average guy Triple usually faces.

    And this is clearly borne out of the below and above-mentioned facts.

    Particularly those pertaining to the world title experience Gatti had going into his fight with Floyd, and also how well known and competent Gatti’s opposition was prior to meeting Floyd.

    Even today, it’s still very difficult to find a couple of Triple’s opponents whom possess the same achievements and experience as Gatti (or Castillo) had going into his fight with Floyd.

    Being generous; perhaps Geale’s experience and achievements (going into fight Triple) might come close to Gatti.

    Still being generous; perhaps Kell Brook’s experience and achievements (going into fight Triple) possibly may also too.

    Yet, despite the fact that those 2 guys (Brook and Geale) represent, perhaps the more experienced opponents that Triple has faced.

    And despite the fact that those guys also represent fights Triple has had reasonably late/recent (but still) in (the prime of) his career (when fighters are expected to challenge themselves); the fact remains that Floyd fought both Gatti and Castillo very early in his career, and he moved up in weight each time he did it.

    What's more (even) after Gatti and Castillo, Floyd still continued - as “Money May” - to fight guys that (despite the negativity associated with the ridicule some threw at him) still had records, experience, and/or skills, that were in excess of the typical Gennady Golovkin opponent and fight.


    Save for a period of about 6 years (between 1997 and 2003; within which Gatti was still very active, mostly successful, and had some of his most famous fights - including those against Oscar DeLa Hoya, Terron Millett, Ivan Robinson, and also the trilogy with Ward); from 1994 through to 2006 there was rarely a year when Gatti was not involved in a title fight of some kind.

    And in all due fairness, anyone looking at Gatti’s record, world title experience, and the accomplishments he achieved prior to fighting Floyd, could reasonably and easily come to the conclusion that any middleweight of today possessing the same attributes (as Gatti did for Floyd) would probably constitute an opponent that K2, Sanchez, and Triple may (Andre Ward) avoid.

    Let alone move up in weight for; as Floyd did.


    I don’t think even Danny Jacobs (whom perhaps constitutes Triple’s first, but yet to happen, signature middleweight title fight) has the same experience and achievements as Gatti - despite his losses - had going into his fight with Floyd.

    No wonder Triple (whom is vastly more experienced than Jacobs) is eager to fight him.


    Now, don’t get me wrong, as anyone falling in love with fool’s gold doesn’t bother me - in fact it makes me laugh - but them there are the facts.

    Floyd’s fight against Arturo Gatti probably constituted one of the finest displays of pure boxing domination that any fighter - past greats included - has ever put on; it was pure, dynamic, technical, and scintillating boxing at its best.

    Anyone in disagreement please show me the video that proves otherwise.

    And also be prepared for me to show you scintillating displays of the craft that Triple and Roy Jones put on against lesser opponents that were not equally experienced and/or (possibly) as skillful as Gatti - but still nonetheless were and (still) are furnished with longstanding (and unscrutinizing) praise.

    Finally, Floyd’s fight against Arturo Gatti didn’t just constitute one of the finest displays of pure boxing domination that any fighter - past greats included - has ever put on - it should also be celebrated as such.

    Particularly, if we are to celebrate and be excited about Gennady Golovkin’s past and upcoming (lesser competitive) fights.


    17) So, now that we know for Floyd’s 35th fight he moved up in weight again (the second time) and fought Arturo Gatti; whom himself was (39-6-0) going in - that brings us to the question . . . . .

    Whom did Gennady Golovkin fight for his 35th fight, and how does he compare to Arturo Gatti.

    For his 35th fight Triple (still at the same weight and putting his WBA, IBF, IBO, and interim WBC middleweight titles on the line) fought Dominic Wade (18-0-0 going in).

    Let me say that again; “Domenic Wade”.

    Prior to fighting Golovkin, Wade was undefeated.

    So - provided the Golovkin V Wade promotional material and marketing hype didn't stray too far away from those boundaries - Wade's undefeated record made for a good promotion and (depending on how inexperienced a boxing fan you are) possibly also some misdirection.

    However, what probably didn’t make it into the Golovkin V Wade promotional material was the fact that - prior to fighting Golovkin - Wade had fought a mixed bag of opponents (of whom an aging Sam Solimon was probably the best name), and he had never fought for any title before; making Wade, perhaps the perfect and typical opponent for K2 and Gennady Golovkin.


    As far as challenges and competition goes (pound for pound) there is probably no comparison between Domenic Wade and Arturo Gatti.

    However, even if that is not the case, it is extremely unlikely that Wade constituted a tougher test than Gatti did, for each of their own individual opponents.


    18) Triple has not fought past 36 fights, and his 36th and last fight was against Kell Brook (36-0-0 going in); a fight that has already had many of its curiosities and advantages examined above/below within this post, and also within this forum - including the below posts/links authored by myself.



    As such, I will not labor the Gennady Golovkin V Kell Brook fight anymore here.

    Other than to say I would welcome anyone (TSS paid writers included) showing - with facts and in clear and concise writing - within this forum how Kell Brook and/or Domenic Wade (and/or any other recent {or past} opponent that Triple has faced) presents to Triple as a more competent, experienced, and dangerous opponent than, (if not Gatti, then) Castillo (whom Floyd fought far earlier in his career than when Triple fought Brook or Wade) did for Floyd; during those time(s) when Floyd moved up in weight and successfully (in addition to the Floyd-opponents themselves that are mentioned herein) took on that challenge.

    Challenges that;

    A) Not only, Floyd has taken on board and surmounted several times.

    B) But also, Triple himself claimed he would take on; but has thus far (whilst seemingly enjoying very little of the scrutiny that is sometimes thrown in Floyd’s direction for not {coming out of retirement to fight Triple and also} moving up again) not yet done so.


    --------------------------------- Part 4a --------------------------------


    19) Floyd's third move up in weight; For Floyd's 36th fight he fought Zab Judah for his IBF and the vacant IBO welterweight titles.

    Judah was (34-3-0 going in) and prior to Floyd, Zab Judah had previously lost to;

    - Kostya Tszyu; a major loss, but 5 years and 10 fights earlier to Zab Judah meeting Floyd.

    - Carlos Baldomir; a controversial loss (mostly due to poor preparation on Zab Judah’s part) in a fight that took place both, 3 months earlier and also in his most recent fight prior, to meeting Floyd Mayweather.

    - Corey Spinks; a relatively insignificant (and later avenged) loss in terms of confidence-impact that took place 2 years and 3 fights earlier to Floyd.


    Regardless of your opinion of Zab Judah his complete boxing ledger reads (unlike any opponent Triple has faced, and instead) like both, a who’s who list and also highlight reel full of reasonably significant/challenging light welterweight and welterweight fights - that themselves mostly consist of well known boxer’s names.

    Zab is relatively well known to the audience here.

    So - whilst it may seem that there is no need to detail his record, wins, losses, and achievements in same granular detail that I have provided above for Floyd’s other opponents - the fact of the matter is that it would most likely be remiss of Storm to simply summarize; due to the fact that it is quite prevalent these days for many a boxing fan to throw ridicule in Zab Judah’s (and Floyd Mayweather’s) direction - whilst at the same time both endorsing and riding high on Gennady Golovkin.


    Some people don’t know that from 1998 right through to 2013 there was hardly a year that Judah had not been in a notable, significant, or title, fight.

    That’s not bad.

    Furthermore, for many of those years Judah held and/or successfully defended a title at either light welterweight or welterweight.

    Save for the (underestimated) Carlos Baldomir disaster, almost always Judah’s losses (particularly when not past his prime) came from extremely tough and/or very skilled/experienced top operators.

    And that list includes; Kostya Tszyu, Floyd Mayweather, Miguel Cotto, Corey Spinks, and Joshua Clottey.


    Please also note that many of Judah’s losses come from fighting at welterweight, when in fact (in my opinion) for a large part of his career Zab really was more of a natural light welterweight that had simply moved up to welterweight both, after the Kostya Tszyu loss and also for bigger opportunities and paydays.


    As such, Zab Judah - especially within the early years that he moved up - was never really strong enough to be a fully fledged welterweight; and I think that showed in a few of his welterweight fights - just as much as he should perhaps be commended for fighting above his natural weight.


    Still, with the exception of perhaps a few fighters, Judah has - particularly in his prime - taken on most on comers and given a pretty good stylistic account of himself.

    Furthermore, even as a veteran and after suffering some *devastating losses that would probably end other fighter’s careers - and despite him also taking on some justifiably* easy wins during this time; Zab has also, at times, taken on several prime, young guys/champions - whom themselves possessed skills and attributes that clearly placed Judah at a disadvantage.

    Guys like Khan, Garcia, and perhaps also Cotto.


    Zab was a southpaw fighter that - particularly pre-Tszyu - possessed exceptional confidence, speed, skill, and explosiveness.

    In some sense he was a bit like Pernell Whitakker reinvented.


    After Kostya Tszyu devastated Judah, we understandably saw Zab exhibit varying and inconsistent degrees of all the aforementioned dynamic attributes.

    However, despite his utterly embarrassing loss to Tszyu at light welterweight and to his credit, Zab still hung in there and rebuilt himself.

    Examples of such can be said (even if they weren't after the 2011 Kostya Tszyu loss that would have most boxers looking for another career) to exist within both Judah’s welterweight unification title fights with Corey Spinks; as these bouts were excellent displays of boxing skill, determination, and courage.

    Where - after first losing to Spinks in 2004 - Zab then rose to the challenge and beat Spinks the second time around in 2005 for all the significant welter weight titles.

    Perhaps ironically, by beating Spinks that second time around Zab Judah "regained" all the (WBA, WBC, and IBF) titles that were associated with that devastating loss to Kostya Tszyu in 2011; but (the titles were now) in one weight division higher/heavier - welterweight.

    Furthermore (provided you discount the low blow and ensuing melee and controversy) Judah performed quite well against Floyd too; and (like Judah’s 2 fights with Spinks) that fight also took place after Kostya Tszyu.


    Actually, to some extent it’s quite surprising that Zab - when in against Floyd - performed well enough to highlight some of Floyd Mayweather’s vulnerabilities.

    As Zab, prior to facing Floyd, had just controversially lost to (the far less skilled - but far better prepared) Carlos Baldomir, which meant;

    A) Not only, that it appeared that Floyd would have a walk in the park with Judah when they met (Zab Judah’s next fight).

    B) But also, that the WBC title was not up for sale in the Mayweather V Judah fight; as Baldomir had taken that from Zab (in Zab’s fight just prior to Floyd) when they both fought.


    As both an adjunct and perhaps also serving as another irony, in Floyd’s next fight (after Zab Judah) Mayweather himself fought and beat Carlos Baldomir, and in doing so Floyd then seized the WBC welterweight title that was not up for grabs (for the above and below stated reasons) when Floyd fought Judah.

    Going back to my above comments pertaining to how Zab Judah performed well enough to highlight some of Floyd Mayweather’s vulnerabilities when they fought; personally, I think Zab Judah won more rounds against Floyd than he was actually given credit for.

    And, in doing so Zab showed some of the ways that Pacquaio may have been more effective in his fight with Floyd.

    As Floyd was certainly troubled by Zab’s extremely fast southpaw and counterpunching style during those early rounds/times when Judah was fresh, confident, and faster than Floyd.


    It’s also perhaps worth (chronologically) noting that immeditately prior to Zab being surprisingly defeated by Carlos Baldomir (where Zab lost the aforementioned WBC welterweight title that Floyd {due to the fact that the Mayweather V Judah fight was conceived either, prior to the Judah V Baldomir fight - or upon the notion that Judah would not lose to Baldomir; or both} probably thought he would get from fighting Judah) within his fight just prior to facing Floyd . . . . .

    Zab - within his 2 fights prior to Baldomir - had successfully;

    A) Rematched Corey Spinks (34-2-0 going in) for the WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles.

    B) Defended the same title set against Cosme Rivera (28-7-2 going in).


    Both the fights with Corey Spinks and Cosme Rivera took place in 2005.

    And - as mentioned above - Judah’s fight with Carlos Baldomir (and Floyd Mayweather, both) took place in 2006.




    As such, Zab Judah’s;

    - 2nd fight with Corey Spinks in 2005 - Zab Judah’s 3rd fight before Floyd Mayweather.

    - Fight with Cosme Rivera in 2005 - Zab Judah’s 2nd fight before Floyd Mayweather.

    - Bout with Carlos Baldomir in 2006 - Zab Judah’s 1st and/or immediate fight before Floyd Mayweather..


    Constitute Zab Judah’s 3 fights immediately prior to Judah fighting Floyd Mayweather


    These 3 fights are provided in slighty more granular detailed below so that, as we have with Floyd's other opponents, they can later be used as a yardstick to compare with Gennady Golovkin’s opponent choices.



    --------------------------------------

    Please note that this next section is quite extensive and written in a manner that’s slightly edifying/instructive. As such, if you have difficulty with it please remember that it’s both important and also required in order to take a “deep dive” look into at least one of Floyd Mayweather’s opponents (and I have chosen Zab Judah to both, favor Gennady Golovkin and also because Zab was one of the more criticized and better known Floyd Mayweather opponents at the time they fought) so that we may reliably assess the approach that K2, Sanchez, and Gennady Golovkin appear to have utilsed with their opponent selection. If you this section is not understood well, then it increases the chances readers may not fully comprehend the subsequent parts/sections of this post, its analyses, and also both the conclusions and assumptions drawn.


    Zab Judah V Corey Spinks


    - In 2005, Zab Judah successfully rematched Corey Spinks (34-2-0 going in) for Corey’s WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles.


    Out of Corey Spink’s previous 3 fights to his rematch with Zab Judah he had won all 3.

    Let’s now take a detailed look at how Corey Spinks (win/loss and opponent-wise) went into his fight with Zab Judah to see if anything discovered draws a contrast with any pattern that may emerge when, later in this story, we look at how K2 promotions and/or Gennady Golovkin selects their opponents.


    Corey Spink’s 1st fight before rematching Zab Judah (Miguel Angel Gonzalez) - Win.

    The fight just prior to Corey Spinks facing Zab Judah was with Miguel Angel Gonzalez (49-3-1 going in) and that bout - which took place in 2004/Las Vegas - was for Corey’s WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles.

    By the time Spinks met Miguel Angel Gonzalez (whom, like Triple, was also trained by Abel Sanchez), Gonzalez was coming off a 5 KO/win streak against competition that substantiated he was not the same fighter that he was in earlier/better days; such as when he fought Julio Cesar Chavez Sr., Kostya Tszyu, Oscar DeLa Hoya, Hector Lopez, Calvin Grove and Leavander Johnson.

    In any regard, Corey Spinks defeated Gonzalez on points and retained his titles.


    Corey Spink’s 2nd fight before rematching Zab Judah (Zab Judah; 1st fight) - Win.

    Corey Spinks defeated Zab Judah (30-1-0 going in) on points when they first met in 2004 and fought for Corey’s WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles.


    Corey Spink’s 3rd fight before rematching Zab Judah (Ricardo Mayorga) - Win.

    Corey Spinks defeated the dangerous and passionately crazy Mayorga (25-3-1 going in) on points in 2003 and in doing so Spinks unified his IBF welterweight title with Mayorga’s WBC and WBA welterweight titles that Ricardo had won from the late/great Vernon Forrest.


    The summary of Corey Spinks constituting 1 of 3 opponents that Zab Judah fought prior to meeting Floyd Mayweather, is that whilst Gonzalez was past his prime when Spinks met him - even at that stage - Gonzalez was probably still experienced and capable enough to (at least) mount/represent the kind of resistance/risk that any of the below and/or above-mentioned (typically questionable) Gennady Golovkin opponents would probably mount; which - particularly when placed alongside Corey Spink’s other aforementioned wins over Zab Judah and Ricardo Mayorga (whom were both competent and {particularly Mayorga} dangerous operators at that time) - surely means that Corey Spinks went into his 2nd fight with Zab Judah in very good form.

    In turn, this also means that - performing in the role of a (pre-Floyd Mayweather) Zab Judah opponent - Corey Spinks himself was, in the very least, a very good/competent fighter that ensured the outcome of the Zab Judah V2 Corey Spinks welterweight unification fight was anything but a foregone conclusion before it started.

    This view is further reinforced by the following facts;

    1) Out of the 3 fights Spinks had prior to facing Zab Judah for the second time;

    A) 2 of them (those 2 against Gonzalez and Judah) were title defences of Corey’s full suite of WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles (Zab Judah did not bring his WBO super lightweight title to the table for his and Spink’s 1st fight).

    B) 1 of them was a unification bout between Spinks and Mayorga, where Mayorga put up and lost his WBC and WBA welterweight titles that he had won from Vernon Forrest.

    2) When was the last time Gennady Golovkin (at either, the same fight-count and/or career time as when Floyd Mayweather fought Zab Judah - or at anytime) fought an opponent, whom himself - out of the last 3 opponents/fights he had contested - all 3 fights were triple sanction unification defences/fights?

    As was the case here with Corey Spinks as an opponent for Zab Judah in 2005; within Judah’s 3 fight before facing Floyd?



    Zab Judah V Cosme Rivera

    - In 2005, Zab Judah defeated/stopped Cosme Rivera (28-7-2 going in) and in doing so Judah successfully defended the WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles he had won from Corey Spinks in their 2nd fight.


    Out of Cosme Rivera’s previous 3 fights to his bout with Zab Judah he had won all 3 by TKO.

    Let’s now take a detailed look at how Cosme Rivera (win/loss and opponent-wise) went into his fight with Zab Judah to see if anything discovered draws a contrast with any pattern that may emerge when, later in this story, we look at how K2 promotions and/or Gennady Golovkin selects opponents.


    Cosme Rivera’s 1st fight before fighting Zab Judah (Javier Hector Valadez) - Win.

    The fight Cosme Rivera performed in just prior to facing Zab Judah was with Javier Hector Valadez (16-16-1 going in) and that bout took place in 2004.

    Going into his fight with Zab Judah it appears that Valadez had lost 3 straight in a row (all stoppage losses); 1 to Paul Williams (23-0-0 going in) and 2 to AlvaroAguilar (15/10-0-0 going in).

    From this and a few other names on Valadez’ ledger it is probably a pretty safe bet to say that by the time Valadez met Rivera, Valadez’ main function in the sport was probably performing as a match practice and/or stepping stone opponent for other fighters possibly possessing greater aspirations whom could also not afford to go stale and/or lose.

    Still, despite how negatively it may above read for (Zab Judah as far as it pertains to) Javier Hector Valadez’ assumed role as a Cosme Rivera opponent whose intention may have been to (clarify or) bolster Rivera’s status as a (pre-Floyd Mayweather) Zab Judah opponent; the fact of the matter is that - as disappointing as Valadez’ above-mentioned record is - Valadez’ losing performances (even in the unlikely event that one can't find, within that already above-mentioned within this post, a similarly eyebrow raising Gennady-Golovkin-opponent’s choice of pre-Golovkin-fight opponent) within his 3 previous fights to Cosme Rivera still defines Javier Hector Valadez as a more competent opponent and also him ahead of the curious opponent Milton Nunez (Gennady Golovkin 2010 victim) chose and fought just prior to his fight with Triple (Anibal Miranda {8-16-1 going in}) due to the fact that;

    A) Not only, had Anibal Miranda lost all 3 fights prior to meeting Milton Nunez (who then went straight in with Triple); just as Javier Hector Valadez did immediately prior to meeting Cosme Rivera (who then went straight in with Zab Judah).

    B) But also, Anibal Miranda had lost 13 fights in a row prior to meeting Milton Nunez; whereas Valadez’ pre-Cosme Rivera unbroken losing streak extends back only 3 (or, provided you ignore the win Valadez had in his 4th fight prior to Rivera, 7) fights.


    Additionally, there is also the consideration that this entire post is about whether - on the basis of compared achievements and opponents - Floyd Mayweather has the right to tell Gennady Golovkin to step it/competition up.

    Remember, we are only using Zab Judah as a reference right here and now, as that just happens to be the (Floyd Mayweather opponent) section of the post we’re in.

    However, with the above in mind it’s perhaps interesting to note that - when comparing achievements/opponents between Floyd Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin’s - in order to find similarly questionable opponent’s/opponents (such as Anibal Miranda and Javier Hector Valadez) one must usually dive down a level and/or tier deeper on Floyd Mayweather’s opponent(s) record - as opposed to Gennady Golovkin’s.


    For example . . . .

    Where Anibal Miranda loses 13 fights in a row immediately prior to fighting Nunez, whom himself may have been looking for an easy win before and/or to secure his Gennady Golovkin fight; we only need to go down 3 opponent tiers within Golovkin's "critical opponent path" before we start seeing the long losing streaks in opponents.

    Gennady Golovkin >> Milton Nunez >> Anibal Miranda.


    Whereas (for Floyd Mayweather's "critical opponent path", looking at how) Javier Hector Valadez loses 3 fights in a row immediately prior to fighting Cosme Rivera (whom himself may have also been looking for an easy win before and/or to secure his Zab Judah fight), and to find him within Mayweather's "critical opponent path" we have to go down 4 opponent tiers; before we start seeing long losing streaks in opponents.

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Cosme Rivera >> ~Javier Hector Valadez.


    But even then, once you're down at that level of Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path it’s obvious that they're (the long losing streaks in opponents) still not as long as those pertaining to (the higher tiers of) Golovkin's "critical opponent path"; which is indicative of an inferior level of opposition/competition for Gennady Golovkin.

    The overall relevance of this and “critical opponent path analysis” will become clearer later in this post.

    But what this means now, for this section of the post, and it’s look at both the Cosme Rivera V Javier Hector Valadez / Zab Judah fights, is that - even considering how unsavory Javier Hector Valadez may represent as a (Floyd Mayweather opponent’s {Zab Judah} opponent)~ Cosme Rivera opponent . . . . .

    Floyd Mayweather’s opponent pool (particularly in the context of Zab Judah) and Zab Judah’s opponent pool, and both Floyd and Judah’s overall quality of opposition, is still noticeably better than Gennady Golovkin’s.


    And that’s without;

    A) Even looking at the other 2 guys that Milton Nunez . . .

    Gennady Golovkin >> Milton Nunez

    Fought (in his 3 fights) prior to Triple; Johnny DeHorta and Howard Cassiani.

    a) Johnny DeHorta (0-3-0 going into face Milton Nunez).

    b) Howard Cassiani (0-4-0 going in into face Milton Nunez).


    That in addition to Anibal Miranda (8-16-1 going into fight Milton Nunez)

    Gennady Golovkin >> Milton Nunez >> Anibal Miranda

    Constituted Milton Nunez’ 3 fights prior to facing Gennady Golovkin.



    B) Or, comparing them to . . .

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Cosme Rivera

    Cosme Rivera opponents; James Hare and Hercules Kyvelos.

    a) James Hare (28-0-1 going into face Cosme Rivera).

    b) Hercules Kyvelos (22-1-0 going into face Cosme Rivera).

    Whom - in addition to Javier Hector Valadez (16-16-1 going into face Cosme Rivera) - constituted Cosme Rivera’ 3 fights prior to facing Zab Judah.


    From which you can see, via using the critical opponent path analysis/assessment method which - in various forms - has been laid out here within this post, there is usually no comparison between Floyd's nested/indirect opponents, and that of Triple.


    This view is even further reinforced by observing (in comparison to Gennady Golovkin's "critical opponent path") just how far down Floyd Mayweather’s "critical opponent path" we need to go in order to find Floyd’s opponent’s opponents that;

    A) Seem to arrange their fights similarly to Triple and/or his opposition.

    B) Compare more accurately to Gennady Golovkin’s opponents (and/or and their opponent's) capabilities and/or losing streaks.



    For example . . .

    Looking at Javier Hector Valadez’ (pre- Cosme Rivera) opponents that delivered Valadez his 3 losses prior to facing Rivera, we have; Paul Williams and Alvaro Aguilar.

    A) Paul Williams (23-0-0 going into face Valadez).

    B) Alvaro Aguilar (15/10-0-0 going into face Valadez); whom Valadez fought twice in a row and within 3 fights prior to facing Rivera.


    The above 2 fighters, Williams and Aguilar, reside 5 tiers down on the Floyd Mayweather's "critical opponent path" . . .

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Cosme Rivera >> Javier Hector Valadez >> Alvaro Aguilar / Paul Williams


    However, take a look at whom the fighters are and the (win/loss) condition that Williams and Aguilar were themselves in when they went into their fights with Valadez.

    And then feel free to compare them and their records to (a pre-Golovkin) Milton Nunez' (below) opponent's records/losses and their respective critical opponent path positions (only 3 tiers down) that they occupied as they headed into their fight with Nunez.


    Gennady Golovkin >> Milton Nunez >> Howard Cassiani / Johnny DeHorta


    This analytical approach strips back the promotional and marketing hype and speaks in relatively clear and concise term about both;

    A) The quality of opposition that both Gennady Golovkin and Floyd Mayweather have faced.

    B) Gennady Golovkin and Floyd Mayweather critical opponent paths.


    And we have only barely started.

    As you can see - even at 5 tiers down within Floyd Mayweather's "critical opponent path" - and due to the (usually) superior caliber of opposition Floyd and his opponent's face - Floyd's "critical opponent path" still does not resemble Golovkin's "critical opponent path" and/or his opponent's/opponent's losing streaks.

    Which, within Gennady Golovkin's "critical opponent path", begins to noticeably present itself at only 3 tiers down.


    Cosme Rivera’s 2nd fight before fighting Zab Judah (Hercules Kyvelos) - Win.

    Immediately prior to facing the above-mentioned Javier Hector Valadez, Cosme Rivera squared off with Hercules Kyvelos (22-1-0 going in) in a bout that both;

    A) Took place at about three quarters of the way through 2004.

    B) Constituted Cosme Rivera’s 2nd fight before he faced Zab Judah.


    During the same (2004) year that Cosme Rivera fought Hercules Kyvelos, Kyvelos himself had completed his most recent fight - which was also the one he had prior to facing Rivera; a stoppage loss to Antonio Margarito.

    Margarito’s stoppage/defeat of Hercules Kyvelos in 2004 effectively facilitated the loss of Hercule’s bid for Margarito’s WBO welterweight title - a title that Margarito had himself initially won from (depending on your view of the Antonio Margarito V1 Daniel Santos no contest bout in 2001) Antonio Diaz back in 2002.

    Prior to the Antonio Margarito loss (and over a period of approximately 6 years and 22 contests) Hercules Kyvelos had competed against average to decent/good opponents and had never lost a fight; where most of the wins pertaining to Kyvelo’s (pre-Antonio Margarito) undefeated streak came by way of a pretty even split between stoppage and points victories.

    Hercules Kyvelo’s 2 fights prior to his stoppage loss to Antonio Margarito were points wins against both, Ener Julio (25-4-1) and Johnny Molnar (19-1-1); both of whom, going in, had not lost their 3 previous fights.

    However, despite having not lost their 3 previous fights, by the time both Julio and Molnar met Hercules Kyvelos it was reasonably obvious that both Julio and Molnar's careers appeared to reflect fighters that (particularly for guys with largely undecorated amateur pasts) had passed through a typical apprenticeship stage within the professional ranks, and as such they were at the stage where it was soon going to become apparent whether they had made the correct career choice in boxing.

    Whether or not Julio and Molnar's vocational choices were sound was also something that could, perhaps, also be deciphered from their opponent choices.


    For example, prior to being defeated by Hercules Kyvelos in 2003, Ener Julio had beaten (a still reasonably dangerous) Randall Bailley in 2000 - but then he had also lost to DeMarcus Corely in both 2002 and 1999.

    Furthermore, all that took place at about the same timeframe when Julio also appeared to be displaying an interest in fighting opponents with win/loss ratios that were unbalanced enough that, without too much difficulty, it enabled one to easily predict the outcome of these fights without necessarily knowing too much about whom Julio was.


    As for Johnny Molnar, well prior to being defeated by Hercules Kyvelos in 2002, he had (unlike Ener Julio) only lost once before; and that was to Nick Acevedo in 2000 (10-0-0 going in).

    That said, perhaps the absence of defeats (in comparison to Julio) on Molnar’s record was due to the fact that Molnar - despite him also displaying a similar interest as Julio did in fighting opponents with win/loss ratios that were sufficiently unbalanced so as to make predictions relatively easy - appeared to not derive as much pleasure from matching himself with the same caliber/counts of known and/or risky opponents as Ener Julio did; as Molnar certainly didn't stray into the deep(ish) waters of technically competent opposition in quite the same way that Ener Julio did.


    The summary here is that, save for Hercules Kyvelo’s stoppage loss to Antonio Margarito (whom Kyvelos fought immediately before Rivera) in 2004; going into his fight with Cosme Rivera in 2004 (whereby Rivera stopped Hercules) Hercules Kyvelos was unbeaten.


    Cosme Rivera’s 3rd fight before fighting Zab Judah (James Hare) - Win.

    Cosme Rivera defeated James Hare (28-0-1 going in) by stoppage in 2003.

    James Hare’s 3 previous fights to Rivera were all successful domestic UK bouts against (given where Hare was in his career) average to decent opposition that (in reverse chronological order) included; Jozsef Matolsci (17-3-0 going in), Jan Piet Bergman (42-4-0 going in), and Roman Dzhuman (16-1-0 going in).

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Cosme Rivera >> James Hare >> Jozsef Matolsci / Jan Piet Bergman / Roman Dzhuman

    With the exception of his 2nd fight prior to facing Jame Hare, where Matolsci was stopped by Michel Trabant (36-0-0); Jozsef Matolsci almost went into his fight against Hare winning all 3 previous bouts; where the other 2 opponents - Serhiy Khmelevskyy (6-2-0 going in) and Filip Bysteikov (8-0-0 going in) - were, whilst relatively inexperienced, nonetheless close to and/or undefeated when they met Matolsci.

    With the exception of his fight immediatey prior to facing James Hare, where Jan Piet Bergman was stopped by Jawaid Khaliq (20-1-1); Bergman almost went into his fight against Hare winning all 3 previous bouts; where the other 2 opponents - Pavel Melnikov (12-2-0 going in) and Derek Roche (26-2-0 going in) - had only suffered a few losses in their entire career and were reasonably experienced campaigners.

    With the exception of his 2nd fight prior to facing Jame Hare, where Roman Dzhuman (16-1-0 going in) was beaten on points by Jawaid Khaliq (19-1-1 going in); Dzhuman almost went into his fight against Hare winning all 3 previous bouts; where the other 2 opponents, Volodymyr Khodakovskyy (6-1-2 going in) and Peter Takac (1-8-2 going in), exhibited contrasting capabilities and records - with Takac (as his records suggests) most likely losing sight of what a win meant long before he headed into his fight with Dzhuman. Whereas, Khodakovskyy had lost his 3rd fight prior to facing Dzhuman, which (at that stage of his career) constituted his only loss.


    The summary of;

    A) James Hare as a Cosme Rivera opponent is that Hare was (in the very least) a reasonable and competent fighter whom faced opposition (both, prior to his fight with Cosme Rivera and also at other times) that was usually a class above many Gennady Golovkin opponents that resided within Golovkin’s critical opponent path at;

    (i) The same tier and/or depth to where James Hare sits on Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path.

    (ii) A level that was even one or two tiers higher than where James Hare sits on Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path.


    B) Cosme Rivera as a Zab Judah opponent is that whilst Rivera took a relatively easy warm up fight (Javier Hector Valadez) prior to facing Judah, the fact of the matter was that all Javier Hector Valadez’ 3 losses (that he had accumulated within his 3 fights prior to facing Cosme Rivera) came from very good opponents whom were also unbeaten.

    Aside from this though, the analysis also indicates that as Cosme Rivera came off his 2004 victory over Hercules Kyvelos and looked ahead towards his once-in-a-lifetime and lucrative 2005 (WBC, IBF, and WBA) welterweight unification title fight/opportunity with Zab Judah, Rivera would have surely known that by selecting Javier Hector Valadez he provided himself with some security and also a safe warm up fight against a guy (Valadez) that both, had recently faced known opponents (Williams and Aguilar) and was not entirely unfamiliar with losing.

    And, in doing so Cosme Rivera did what many other fighters (Gennady Golovkin opponents included) would do, effectively sealing an opportunity and career high payday in relation to the aforementioned Cosme Rivera V Zab Judah welterweight unification bout.

    Similar things can possibly also be said of (Cosme Rivera opponent) Hercules Kyvelos’ only loss (within the 3 fights prior to facing Rivera) that took place within his 2004 bid for Margarito’s WBO welterweight title. As aside from this loss to Margarito, Hercules Kyvelos had beaten the other 2 fighters (Ener Julio and Johnny Molnar) whom - along with Margarito - represented Kyvelos’ 3 fights prior to facing Cosme Rivera.

    The grand summary here is that - even if Floyd Mayweather didn’t step up in weight to fight/beat Zab Judah - Cosme Rivera (within the context of comparing Gennady Golovkin and Floyd Mayweather’s achievements, opponents, and critical opponent paths) in no way detracts from Zab Judah being a Floyd Mayweather opponent that is better than most opponents Triple and/or his management/promotional team have selected.


    Zab Judah V Carlos Baldomir

    - In 2006, Zab Judah was surprisingly beaten by Carlos Baldomir (41-9-6 going in) and in doing so Zab lost his WBC welterweight title to Baldomir.


    Out of Baldomir’s previous 3 fights to Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir had won all 3.

    Let’s now take a detailed look at how Carlos Baldomir (win/loss and opponent-wise) went into his fight with Zab Judah to see if anything discovered draws a contrast with any pattern that may emerge when, later in this story, we look at how K2 promotions and/or Gennady Golovkin selects their opponents.


    Carlos Baldomir’s 1st fight before fighting Zab Judah (Miguel Angel Rodriguez) - Win.

    Baldomir’s fight just prior facing Zab Judah took place in 2005 and it was against Miguel Angel Rodriguez (26-1-0 going in); whom Baldomir defeated on points.

    Heading into his fight with Carlos Baldomir, Rodriguez - out of the last 3 fights he had participated in - had won them all by stoppage.

    In fact, prior to meeting Carlos Baldomir in 2005, Miguel Angel Rodriguez had won 5 fights by stoppage.

    Additionally, the 3 opponents Rodriguez fought before meeting Baldomir - Luis Maysonet (32-9-0 going in), Guillermo Romero (9-2-0 going in), and Ernesto Carmona (11-3-0 going in) - themselves had all (prior to meeting Rodriguez) exhibited a mix of reasonably good opponents whom mostly had no recent loses.

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Carlos Baldomir >> Miguel Angel Rodriguez >> Luis Maysonet / Guillermo Romero / Ernesto Carmona

    Save for his bout with Luis Maysonet (whom constituted Rodriguez’ fight immediately prior to Baldomir); Miguel Angel Rodriguez’ 3 previous fights to Baldomir were all;

    (i) Successful domestic Mexican bouts.

    (ii) Against guys that didn’t have any losses in their last 3 (or 5) fights.


    Furthermore, to find a loss on Rodriguez’ ledger prior to him meeting Carlos Baldomir you had to go back 11 fights and approximately 6 years.

    Prior to that loss (which constituted Rodriguez’ only loss as he went into the Baldomir fight in 2005) and over the span of approximately 3 years, Rodriguez had remained exceptionally active and won 15 in a row.

    Rodriguez’ entire record - particularly that of it which constitutes pre-Baldomir - supports an extremely high amount of stoppage wins, and I suspect that (even given the fact that Rodriguez is probably best described as a solid “B” grade contender) it would be quite difficult to find a similarly successful opponent within any similar tiered dive into Gennady Golovkin’s critical opponent path - let alone one at the depth/tier were are at now for Zab Judah (or Floyd Mayweather {which is even harder [but more to the point of the overall objective of this entire post] to achieve for Triple}).


    Carlos Baldomir’s 2nd fight before fighting Zab Judah (Alpaslan Aguzum) - Win.

    Baldomir’s 2nd fight just prior facing Zab Judah took place in 2004 and was against Alpaslan Aguzum (29-1-0 going in).

    As he went into his fight with Carlos Baldomir, Alpaslan Aguzum - out of the last 3 fights he had participated in - Aguzum had won them all.

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Carlos Baldomir >> Alpaslan Aguzum >> Jacek Bielski / David Sarraille / Michele Orlando

    Out of the 3 opponents Alpaslan Aguzum fought before meeting Baldomir, save for David Sarraille (19-19-0 going in) whom had multiple recent losses, all the other (2) opponents (Michele Orlando (20-3-0) and Jacek Bielski (24-1-0)) themselves, prior to meeting Aguzum, exhibited;

    A) A mix of below average to good opponents that is perhaps typical of boxers attempting to gain experience at the expense of noticeably reduced risk.

    B) Mostly, no recent loses.

    Immediately prior to facing Carlos Baldomir, Alpaslan Aguzum faced Jacek Bielski and beat him for the WBC welterweight title that Aguzum had won in 2003 against Raul Eduardo Bejarano (16-6-2 going in).

    So, as Alpaslan Aguzum headed into his fight with Baldomir and in terms of his (and therefore also Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, and ultimately Floyd Mayweather’s) critical opponent path, Aguzum’s bout and welterweight title fight with opponent Jacek Bielski was not entirely insignificant.

    As, whilst Jacek Bielski’s pre- Aguzum record was not attained by fighting inexperienced opposition that would not in any way concern Zab Judah, Gennady Golovkin, or Floyd Mayweather; the fact of the matter was that Jacek Bielski’s record (heading into his fight with Aguzum) was;

    A) Still better than some of the guys that reside 2 or 3 tiers down on Triple’s critical opponent path.

    B) Pretty much without a defeat for approximately 9 fights and 2 years prior to facing Aguzum.

    Need I also say that the 2003 Jacek Bielski V Alpaslan Aguzum fight was also for Aguzum’s WBC welterweight title; so in itself that match lends to the value of the Alpaslan Aguzum V Carlos Baldomir fight - just as much as it was also the bout that Alpaslan Aguzum contested in immediately prior to facing and losing to Carlos Baldomir in 2004.

    Prior to facing the above-mentioned Jacek Bielski, Alpaslan Aguzum fought and defeated David Sarraille (19-19-0 going in) in a fight that (due to both, Sarraille’s record/ability and also the fact that ~Aguzum defended his aforementioned WBC welterweight title in fights either side of Sarraille) appears almost impossible to view as anything other than a “keep busy” fight.

    Still, in the interest of fairness and the pursuit of being evenhanded, it must be said that David Sarraille doesn’t do much for anyone’s critical opponent path and as such it has to be detailed here that (in the context of critical opponent path analysis) David Sarraille does Alpaslan Aguzum, Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, and Floyd Mayweather no favors; as - even though Sarraille resides much further down on Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path, and still supports a better ledger and more wins than some of Triple’s most concerning critical path opponents - the fact of the matter is that David Sarraille is perhaps as close to some of the more questionable opponents on Gennady Golovkin’s critical opponent path as Floyd Mayweather gets.

    In Alpaslan Aguzum’s 3rd fight before facing Carlos Baldomir (only~ 2 months prior to facing David Sarraille) he defeated Michele Orlando and in doing so Alpaslan Aguzum successfully defended the WBC welterweight title that he had initially won in Germany/2003 against Raul Eduardo Bejarano; in what was Alpaslan Aguzum’s fight immediately prior to fighting Michele Orlanda.

    Prior to fighting Aguzum, Michele Orlando had not lost a fight within 3 years and 8 fights.

    Furthermore, (whilst also involving reasonable to very good competition) several of those 8 fights encompassed domestic, regional and IBF continental, welterweight titles.


    As a result I think it’s safe to say that, in his 2nd fight before facing Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir (in fighting Alpaslan Aguzum) had not taken an exceptionally easy route and/or one that we would not find at the same tier/depth (or higher) within Gennady Golovkin and/or his opponent’s critical opponent paths.

    Not in the least, as Alpaslan Aguzum - within 3 fights prior to fighting Baldomir - had successfully defended his WBC welterweight title immediately prior to facing Baldomir (against Jacek Bielski) and also within his 3rd fight prior to facing Baldomir (against Michele Orlanda).

    It’s quite difficult to find a Gennady Golovkin critical path opponent - even only 1 or 2 tiers down Triple’s critical opponent path - that goes into their fight with the Gennady Golovkin critical path opponent in question having just successfully defended their world title; let alone find a Gennady Golovkin critical path opponent that;

    A) Goes into their fight with the Gennady Golovkin critical path opponent in question after having just successfully defended their world title twice within the last 3 fights.

    B) Goes into their fight with the Gennady Golovkin critical path opponent in question;

    (i) After having both just successfully defended their world title (once or twice) within their last 3 fights.

    (ii) That resides as far down Floyd Mayweather’s (or even Zab Judah’s) critical opponent path, as Alpaslan Aguzum does.

    Once again indicating that a better quality of opposition runs deeper within Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path than that of Gennady Golovkin’s.


    What this means is . . .

    If in the unlikely event that you did somehow discover such an opponent within Gennady Golovkin’s critical opponent path (as that described above within points “A” and “B”) you could probably rest assured/easy that they reside far closer to the top tier of Triple’s critical opponent path than, say, Alpaslan Aguzum does within Floyd Mayweather and/or Zab Judah’s critical opponent path list.

    Remember (whilst there are exceptions to the rule) the better quality of opponents and the deeper down the tiers/depths that those quality opponents (and significant fights they may be in) consistently run within a given fighter’s critical opponent path - usually is a good indicator of the (sometimes superior) quality of the given fighter in question.

    There are several dimensions to this kind of (critical opponent path) analysis and provided it is loaded up correctly and run with other smart functions within a suitably designed algorithm it has can assist with probability/odds predictions; so rest assures that (within limits) it works.

    However, for now we will keep it simple with the above-mentioned description. Of which Storm has provided here only so ye all can have faith in why we have taken this significant (but necessary) digression within the Zab Judah section - of our look at Floyd Mayweather’s opponents - for the purpose of understanding the upcoming assessments and also their outcomes associated with comparison and other questions - between (the often disliked/ridiculed) Floyd Mayweather and (the often liked/heralded) Gennady Golovkin - including whom cherry picks the most.


    OK, critical (Triple/Floyd) opponents that have gone into their Triple and/or Floyd fight after having recently fought for and/or successfully defended their world title, aside; to reinforce the above-mentioned summary/view that (in his 2nd fight before facing Zab Judah) Carlos Baldomir, prior to meeting Zab Judah, had not taken an exceptionally easy route in fighting Alpaslan Aguzum; it’s perhaps relevant to also consider that - even at this depth (4 or 5 tiers) down within Floyd Mayweather (and/or Zab Judah’s) critical opponent path - it’s still only with Alpaslan Aguzum’s above-mentioned (keep busy) opponent David Sarraille that we really begin to see opponents whose records and win/loss ratios noticeably resemble some of those whom we have mentioned above pertaining to 1st and/or 2nd tier opponents that reside within Gennady Golovkin’s critical opponent path.

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Carlos Baldomir >> Alpaslan Aguzum >> David Sarraille.

    Gennady Golovkin >> Milton Nunez >> Anibal Miranda.

    Clearly - just as the application of critical opponent path analysis has limits and must be applied by someone whom knows how to correctly apply the methodology - there are exceptions to the rule.

    However, even with that said the fact remains that already - even at this early stage and without us having to look deeply (that will come later) at the entangled approach that Gennady Golovkin and K2 appear to typically use to source and secure opponents, I think most readers here will agree that a pattern has already emerged that - when discussing whom, between Gennady Golovkin and Floyd Mayweather, has cherry picked opponents the most (even if one discards how often Floyd {but not Triple} has moved up in weight and taken on that additional challenge) it’s currently reasonably clear that Triple is a few car lengths ahead of Floyd Mayweather in the race.

    Safe to say then that Carlos Baldomir’s (2nd) fight (before fighting Zab Judah) against Alpaslan Aguzum was within the limits of what Gennady Golovkin fans would call acceptable and not predictable.


    Carlos Baldomir’s 3rd fight before fighting Zab Judah (Edgar Ruiz) - Win.

    In 2003, just prior to him facing the above-mentioned Alpaslan Aguzum, Baldomir fought and defeated Edgar Ruiz (18-5-1 going in) on points.

    Edgar Ruiz’ 3 fights prior to facing Carlos Baldomir were (in reverse chronological order) against Vernon Forrest (32-0-0 going in), Danny Perez (23-2-0 going in), and Corey Spinks (23-1-0 going in).

    Floyd Mayweather >> Zab Judah >> Carlos Baldomir >> Alpaslan Aguzum >> David Sarraille.

    Edgar Ruiz lost them all.

    By points to Spinks in 2000, and via stoppages to both Forrest in 2001 and Perez in 2001.

    Heading into their fights with Ruiz neither Forrest, Perez, or Spinks, had lost their last 3 fights.

    Which perhaps lends itself to lessening the impact of the circumstances related to how Edgar Ruiz headed into his fight with Baldomir.

    In fact by the time Ruiz fought Perez in 2001, Danny Perez had (since he was last beaten by Margarito via split decision in 1999) won 7 in a row. Prior to Margarito, Perez has been beaten only once (a points decision) when he fought Olegario DeLeon back in 1996 when he only had 5 or 6 fights under his belt.

    As for Forrest, by the time Vernon fought Edgar Ruiz in 2001, Forrest was unbeaten and - since he started out as a professional fighter in 1992 - had won all 33 fights in a row.

    By the time Ruiz fought Spinks in 2000, Corey Spinks had won 10 in a row since he was last beaten (by Antonio Diaz via split decision in 1998); which - at the time Spinks went into his fight with Ruiz - (Diaz) also constituted Spink’s one and only loss.


    So, what can we make out of Edgar Ruiz (as a {pre-Zab Judah} Carlos Baldomir opponent) and what does it say about Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path?

    Clearly Ruiz doesn’t shine quite as brightly as the other opponents that Baldomir fought before facing Zab Judah.

    Additionally, (heading into his fight with Baldomir) Ruiz’ above-mentioned losses are;

    A) Still, not quite as eyebrow raising as some of Gennady Golovkin’s above-mentioned critical path opponents.

    B) Achieved whilst Ruiz was in over his head against top operators whom themselves have;

    (i) Not only, fought a reasonable amount of well known and highly competent fighters.

    (ii) But also, particularly in the case of Forrest and Spinks, proven themselves several times over to be world class challengers and/or champions.


    Given the above points, particularly “(ii)”, its probably not unreasonable to say that we could easily make a case for Edgar Ruiz and his 3 straight losses prior to fighting Carlos not significantly lessening Carlos Baldomir’s status as a worthy (pre-Floyd Mayweather) Zab Judah opponent.

    However, following on from my above-mentioned (Carlos Baldomir’s 2nd fight before fighting Zab Judah {Alpaslan Aguzum}) objectives of adopting interests of fairness and pursuits pertaining to being evenhanded, and irrespective of how much further down Floyd Mayweather’s critical opponent path Edgar Ruiz may actually sit in relation to comparable Gennady Golovkin critical path opponents; lets just say that Edgar Ruiz ensures that the Carlos Baldomir V Edgar Ruiz matchup detracts quality from the Zab Judah V Carlos Baldomir and/or Floyd Mayweather V Zab Judah fights in equal quantities to that of any of the above-mentioned questionable Gennady Golovkin critical opponent paths and/or fights.

    With this fairness and evenhandedness approach, to some extent, we will handicap (in Triple’s favor) the comparison between Floyd Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin and their critical path opponents that this entire post relates to.

    And in doing so we will see if - even with that handicap - Gennady Golovkin, his fans, and the Mayweather detractors, are justified in ignoring and ridiculing Floyd Mayweather when/if he calls on Triple to step it up; in competition and/or weight.



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    Prior to the above-mentioned Carlos Baldomir, Cosme Rivera and Corey Spinks; in 2004 Zab Judah had 3 fights.

    The most distant being his first unsuccessful (but extremely well contested) fight with Corey Spinks (32-2-0 going in) for the WBC, IBF, and WBA welterweight titles.

    After Zab Judah’s first fight with Spinks, he then fought Rafael Pineda (38-5-0 going in) and Wayne Martell (24-2-0 going in); whom, respectively, Judah beat by split decision, and stopped.


    So, depending on your view, Zab Judah was (particularly if you're a Gennady Golovkin fan) certainly not completely washed up by the time he finally stepped up to the plate in 2006 and contested Floyd Mayweather.


    --------------------------------- Part 4b --------------------------------


    Now we digress and discuss Gennady Golovkin, and some things that may be associated with him, cherry picking, risk, and "detracting".


    Just in case it is not yet clear, and before commencing with this digression, I should also state that as I hurriedly compiled this section of the post and/or digression . . .

    I found it reasonably problematic to find an opponent Gennady Golovkin has faced within his current middleweight weight division (let alone whilst moving up in weight) that has, say, even 75% (let alone the same set) of the skills, accomplishments, and title fight experience that (the above-mentioned understudy) Zab Judah has.

    Daniel Jacobs himself, Gennady Golovkin’s upcoming opponent, may very well also comply with that assertion; more on that later in this thread.

    ~Additionally, I am also aware that readers can potentially (and, at the time Zab fought Floyd, many actually did) say that Zab Judah headed straight into the Floyd Mayweather fight coming right off the back of a few losses.

    Most notably Carlos Baldomir, and Spinks.

    Meaning that - with reasonable confidence - it could quite easily be said that people could reflect back on the Zab Judah V Floyd Mayweather fight and possibly come to the conclusion that Floyd Mayweather had it easy with Judah and/or was cherry picking.

    After all that certainly was a largely adopted view both before and after the Zab Judah V Floyd Mayweather fight.



    So, if that were and/or currently is your view . . . .



    To that we can say this . . . . .

    If . . . . .

    For the purposes of ensuring we are not being biased towards Floyd Mayweather (which is important, including the fact that some TSS readers have previously expressed views suggesting that Stormcentre is just that) we pitch the above-mentioned ~assertion at its very highest point.

    Where (we recall that) the (above) ~assertion in question is . . . .

    ~”That, in Floyd Mayweather Jr. fighting Zab Judah when he did, it effectively constituted Floyd cherry picking a guy (Zab Judah) that was not an elite champion and instead was someone that;

    A) Had just been beaten by a “B” grade fighter (Carlos Baldomir); whom himself exhibited many of the hallmark vulnerabilities that usually serve as reliable/strong indicators that they themselves would also lose against Mayweather.

    B) Would fold under the pressure and style that Floyd usually brings.”



    Then . . . . .

    By pitching that ~assertion at its very highest point with respect to;

    A) Zab Judah as a Floyd Mayweather opponent.


    B) And, also both;

    b1) Opponent selection comparisons.

    b2) Risk management approaches.

    As they may apply to both Floyd Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin.



    It surely follows that . . . . .



    In addition to that already mentioned above in this entire post; with respect to Floyd Mayweather and also Gennady Golovkin we have the following individual sections and their interesting considerations, that we can reference later when/if required;

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    Floyd Mayweather (Recap)

    - By the time Zab Judah met Floyd, Judah had actually revenged his loss to Corey Spinks in what was an excellent fight that also displayed a very high level of boxing technicality. However, this does not necessarily mean Zab Judah was a better and/or more difficult opponent for Floyd.

    - The Carlos Baldomir loss - regardless of whether Zab Judah prepared well for him or not (and I do not believe he did) - could not have left Zab Judah feeling as confident as he otherwise may have been as he headed into his next fight with Floyd Mayweather; whom was undoubtedly one of the the most competent and gifted fighters Zab ever fought.

    - The Kostya Tszyu loss (not explicitly mentioned ~above, as it was 5 years prior to Zab Judah meeting Floyd and outside of the sample-width I have been using to compare fighters; but mentioned here for the purposes of fairnesses and also because losses like that - if not, stop - then, certainly change careers) also didn’t make it any harder for Floyd to beat Judah.

    And, let’s face it Kostya Tszyu (whose hit/miss ratios were {at the time Zab Judah fought him} on par with Floyd's - whilst at the same time Tszyu’s KO ratios were actually in excess of Mayweather’s) was undoubtedly one of the the most highly pedigreed, deceptively competent, powerful, and underestimated, fighters that Zab ever fought.

    Still, you have to credit Zab Judah for continuing with his career after what Kostya Tszyu did to him.

    As, (the psychological turmoil that followed stood testament to the fact that) many others wouldn’t have.

    - from the above we can, with reasonable confidence, say that heading into the Floyd Mayweather V Zab Judah fight there was most likely a high likelihood that Floyd Mayweather probably believed and/or knew that Zab Judah - provided Floyd could deal with Zab’s superior speed early on - would fold under pressure during the championship rounds; if not before.

    The additional confidence Mayweather gained from this knowledge would not have hurt his chances and performance.


    And, to a great extent these aforementioned considerations about how Floyd Mayweather approached the Zab Judah fight seem to support the aforementioned ~assertions - ~assertions that we have;

    A) Laid out in an “If” - “Then” format above, so they're easy to understand.

    B) Deliberately pitched at their highest (or most degrading) points for (Floyd and) the specific purpose of ensuring we are not being biased towards Floyd Mayweather.


    As such they can, later when/if required, form some of our “less than 1st class reference points” for Floyd and the Floyd Mayweather V Zab Judah fight; which we have deliberately described in this manner to handle any objections in advance that seek to suggest that we are pitching Floyd’s achievements too high when comparing him to others.


    Others, such as Gennady Golovkin.

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    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Gennady Golovkin


    Gennady Golovkin V Matthew Macklin

    - When, in 2013, Triple fought (and stopped) Matthew Macklin (29-4-0 going in) for Triple’s IBO and WBA middleweight titles, what may have been lost in the promotional fanfare was that, out of Macklin’s previous 3 fights, Matthew had lost 2 and won 1.


    Let’s now take a brief look at how Matthew Macklin went into his fight with Triple and see if anything discovered appealed to K2 promotions (in possibly the same way that some say Judah may have appealed to Mayweather as an opponent) and/or had an impact on how Matthew served and/or was selected as an opponent.

    Matthew Macklin’s 1st fight before fighting Triple (Joachim Alcine) - Win.

    The fight Macklin had just prior to him facing Gennady Golovkin, took place in 2012 with Joachim Alcine (33-2-1 going in); and that bout was contested at middleweight.

    The Macklin V Alcine bout was contested at middleweight due to (some extent) the fact that Alcine had only recently stepped up in weight and taken a chance at a (middleweight) title; but, in doing so he had beaten David Lemieux for the WBC international middleweight title.

    Still, despite it all Alcine was (and is) really a super welterweight or light middleweight.

    As such (it would be foolish not think that) this played into some of the reasons Macklin was successful against Alcine.


    Matthew Macklin’s 2nd fight before fighting Triple (Sergio Martinez) - Loss.

    Macklin was unable to finish the fight and retired.


    Matthew Macklin’s 3rd fight before fighting Triple (Felix Strum) - Loss.

    Macklin fought Strum to a split decision loss.


    The summary of this can perhaps be broken down to 2 separate, but distinct parts.

    Part 1 might be that Matthew Macklin had already suffered several recent losses before fighting Triple, and from that it could also be further deducted that out of Matthew’s 3 fights immediately prior to fighting Golovkin, Matthew Macklin had lost 2 and won 1; where - within the only fight he won (Alcine) - it appears he had a noticeable advantage.

    Part 2 might conclude (even if {in comparison to, say, Zab Judah’s above-mentioned losses prior to fighting Floyd Mayweather; of which only 1 occurred within Zab’s 5 fights prior to meeting Floyd} it is a conclusion that is to some extent based on how frequent/recent Matthew Macklin’s losses were prior to Gennady Golovkin fighting him) that K2/Gennady Golovkin may have been similarly - or possibly even more - calculated and/or focussed on cherry picking, than Floyd was said to be with Zab Judah.

    As, Matthew Macklin’s losses prior to Gennady Golovkin fighting him were certainly greater and more recent than those Zab Judah experienced before fighting Floyd.

    Furthermore - staying with and elaborating on Part 2 for just a little longer . . .

    Even if we pitch the above-mentioned ~assertion (that actually does nothing to flatter Floyd) . . . . .

    ”That, due to the fact Zab Judah headed straight into the Floyd Mayweather fight coming right off the back of a few losses, it could easily be said that some may reflect back on the Zab Judah V Floyd Mayweather fight and possibly come to the conclusion that Floyd Mayweather had it easy with Judah and/or was cherry picking.”

    At its highest point (for the purposes of ensuring we are not in any way biased towards Floyd Mayweather) and accept both it and that, in Floyd Mayweather Jr. fighting Zab Judah, Floyd effectively cherry picked a guy (Zab Judah) whom was not an elite champion and had just been beaten by a “B” grade fighter (Carlos Baldomir); well, even then - this 2 part summary appears to be reasonably sound.

    Particularly part 2.

    So, we can with reasonable confidence therefore say that . . . . .

    - Matthew Macklin had already suffered several recent losses before fighting Triple.

    - Matthew Macklin’s 3 fights immediately prior to fighting Golovkin involved 2 losses and 1 win; where, within the only fight Macklin won (in 2012 against Joachim Alcine), it appears Matthew (due to the fact that both, Alcine was not really a natural middleweight and the Macklin V Alcine bout was contested at middleweight) had an advantage.

    - Whom would bet against the suggestion that K2 and Gennady Golovkin would have been aware of the aforementioned considerations and what they meant for Triple’s chances of success when facing Macklin.

    - Even if we accept the above-mentioned ~assertion about Floyd allegedly cherry picking Zab Judah as an opponent; it appears that K2 and Triple (with their interests in Matthew Macklin) may have been - if not more, then - similarly calculated and/or focussed on cherry picking - than Floyd was said to be with Zab Judah.


    Anyway, let’s continue with this Gennady Golovkin digression and see what other cherry picking and matchmaking patterns emerge.


    Gennady Golovkin V Nobuhiro Ishida

    - When (in both, 2013 and during his fight just prior to Matthew Macklin) Triple fought/stopped Nobuhiro Ishida (24-8-2 going in) for Triple’s IBO and WBA middleweight titles, of Nobuhiro Ishida’s previous 3 fights he (like Macklin) had lost 2 and won 1.

    Let’s now take a brief look at how Nobuhiro Ishida went into his fight with Triple and see if anything discovered may have appealed to K2 promotions and/or had an impact on how Ishida served and/or was selected as an opponent.

    Nobuhiro Ishida’s 1st fight before fighting Triple (Dmitry Pirog) - Loss.

    Nobuhiro Ishida’s fight just prior to facing Gennady Golovkin was in 2012 against Dmitry Pirog (19-0-0 going in) in a bout that was contested at middleweight.

    As an adjunct, 2 years previous to facing Ishida, in 2010 Dmitry Pirog himself had beaten and stopped Danny Jacobs for the WBO middleweight title. At the time Jacobs (whom Gennady Golovkin is now - in 2017 - about to fight next) was stopped by Pirog, Danny was unbeaten with a record of 20-0-0.

    Still, despite it all, at the time of both;

    A) Nobuhiro Ishida V Gennady Golovkin; 2013.

    B) Nobuhiro Ishida V Dmitry Pirog; 2012.

    The fact of the matter was that Nobuhiro Ishida - when at his best - was really a natural super welterweight or light middleweight.

    This consideration (namely that - by the time Nobuhiro Ishida met Gennady Golovkin - Ishida was still {particularly when it came to taking on the big challenges and/or risks} more of a natural super welterweight or light middleweight, than he was middleweight) was something that is/was reasonably well established by both;

    A) How (almost immediately) less successful - than he was at super welterweight - Ishida became upon launching himself into the middleweight waters.

    B) The competition Nobuhiro Ishida faced within the middleweight division.

    And, a quick glance at the fights that took place for Ishida both, when and after he defeated (a recently released from jail) James Kirkland at light middleweight (in 2011) - which itself was a fight that pretty much signposted Nobuhiro’s commencement to climb into the heavier weight divisions and/or competitively deeper waters - seems to reinforce this view.

    Combined with the fact that, by the time Nobuhiro Ishida fought Pirog in 2012, Pirog was (unlike Ishida) not only a natural middleweight - but he had also been campaigning at that weight division as a professional boxer with an undefeated status for almost a decade; these aforementioned “Nobuhiro Ishida considerations” surely - just as they're not insignificant - played into some of the reasons why Dmitry Pirog was successful in defeating Nobuhiro Ishida at middleweight.

    Not in the least, as Pirog was competent, dangerous, and he had campaigned at middleweight for a considerable amount of time prior to fighting and beating Nobuhiro; whom himself, was not a natural middleweight when he fought Pirog, and approximately 8 months after losing to Pirog went straight into his fight with Gennady Golovkin - where he experienced/suffered his first stoppage loss.

    Given, within the Pirog V Ishida fight, the wide margins of the unanimous decision that announced Pirog as the winner, who can really say;

    A) What level of confidence Ishida really possessed as he went into his next fight with Gennady Golovkin; which resulted in the aforementioned stoppage loss.

    B) That the Pirog V Ishida fight didn’t factor into why Nobuhiro Ishida appealed to K2 and Triple as an opponent.


    Furthermore, and perhaps serving as a summary to this “Nobuhiro Ishida’s 1st fight before fighting Triple (Dmitry Pirog) - Loss” section . . . .

    At the time Nobuhiro went into his fight with Triple, save for Paul Williams, the fact of the matter was that on Nobuhiro Ishida’s boxing ledger there was practically no-one that K2 and Gennady Golovkin knew they could not beat.

    Even considering Paul Williams, it was probably doubtful that he (his punch resistance, and all the openings that both his continuously defenceless and relatively constant attack afforded those game enough to take the chances with) would have survived a full Gennady Golovkin onslaught.

    In fact, within the above-mentioned few sentences (particularly with my statement; “save for Paul Williams . . . ”) I was actually being nice to Paul Williams by excluding him from being just another predetermined/possible Triple victim; as was assumed with the majority of Nobuhiro Ishida’s other opponents.


    Nobuhiro Ishida’s 2nd fight before fighting Triple (Paul Williams) - Loss.

    Nobuhiro Ishida lost a unanimous decision to Paul Williams (40-2-0 going in) in 2012, whom himself (Williams) - within his fight immediately prior to fighting Ishida - had recently beaten Erislandy Lara in a bout that itself took place immediately after William’s KO loss to Sergio Martinez in 2010.


    Nobuhiro Ishida’s 3rd fight before fighting Triple (Edson Espinoza) - Win.

    This was Ishida’s 1st fight at middleweight and Espinoza’s record going into his 2011 fight with Ishida was (0-1-0) - conversely, Ishida’s record going into the same fight was (23-6-2).

    Ishida won by KO and Espinoza never fought as a professional boxer again.


    As with the above summary within the above “Gennady Golovkin V Matthew Macklin” section and its detailed look at Macklin’s previous 3 fights (with Joachim Alcine, Sergio Martinez, and Felix Strum) before he met Triple; the summary of this Gennady Golovkin V Nobuhiro Ishida section contained directly above - along with its detailed look at Ishida’s previous 3 fights (with Dmitry Pirog, Paul Williams, and Espinoza) before he met Triple - can also be broken down into 2 (or more) separate parts.


    Part 1 is that, prior to going into his fight with Gennady Golovkin;

    A) Out of Nobuhiro Ishida’s previous 3 fights he (like Matthew Macklin) had lost 2 and won 1.

    B) Nobuhiro Ishida had already suffered several recent losses - losses where it appeared that stepping up the competition and/or competing at a (higher) weight (that it appears Ishida had not yet successfully/completely transitioned into) were possibly all contributing factors to these losses.


    Part 2 is that - of the wins immediately either side of Nobuhiro Ishida’s loss to Gennady Golovkin (James Kirkland included) - most of them have some kind of indicator associated with them that further strengthens the summary that Part 1 provides.

    So, from this, we can with reasonable confidence therefore say that . . . . . . . .

    - Nobuhiro Ishida had already suffered several recent losses before fighting Triple.

    - Nobuhiro Ishida’s 3 fights immediately prior to fighting Golovkin involved 2 losses and 1 win; where, within the only fight Ishida won (in 2011 against Edson Espinoza), it appears Ishida (due to the disparity between Espinoza and Ishida’s records/experience {which was respectively; 0-1-0 and 23-6-2}) had a significant advantage.

    - Whom would bet against the suggestion that K2 and Gennady Golovkin would have been aware of the aforementioned considerations and what they meant for Triple’s chances of success when facing Ishida.

    - Even if we accept the above-mentioned ~assertion about Floyd allegedly cherry picking Zab Judah as an opponent; it appears that K2 and Triple (with their interests in Nobuhiro Ishida) may have been similarly calculated and/or focussed on cherry picking than Floyd was said to be with Zab Judah.

    Not in the least as to suggest that . . . .

    Out of the 3 fights;

    A) Zab Judah had prior to Floyd; detailing a single loss to Baldomir.

    B) Nobuhiro Ishida had prior to Golovkin; detailing losses to both Williams and Pirog.

    C) Matthew Macklin had prior to Golovkin; detailing losses to both Strum and Martinez.

    What - within the context of cherry picking opponents - stands out the most is Floyd’s decision to face Zab Judah after he lost to Carlos Baldomir.

    Is akin to overlooking the obvious in order to state a fiction that allows a myth designed to dimish the value/worth of Floyd Mayweather to propagate; all whilst Gennady Golovkin, for some unannounced reason, escapes even 1/10th the scrutiny to receive a free pass.


    Or, put in simpler terms . . . .

    For one to (deliberately?) not see and/or acknowledge that there are other fighters out there (some of whom are extremely popular fighters and champions) whom are currently plying their trade that (if anyone is, they) are themselves far more worthy of the ridicule Mayweather receives about his boxing skills, achievements, and opponent choices . . . seemingly, just so they can continue to act as they do and disrespect what surely must be the closest thing we have seen in the last decade that resemebles the objective pinnacle of technical boxing precision and excellence . . . . . . . . .

    Is akin to;

    A) Not only, validating that you're both comfortably biased and unwilling to acknowledge reality.

    B) But also, substantiating that you are misaligned with and/or disrespecting boxing; for the majestic and dynamic martial art that it is.


    And, it’s important to remember that out of all the arts, only boxing;

    A) Conveys the marriage of artful violence, competition, and sport within a language that is perhaps more widely understood and accepted - regardless of geography - than almost any other marial art on the planet.


    B) Involves what could arguably be said to be;

    b1) The original martial art and ultimate form of competition men turned to when matters could not be resolved;

    - By mediation,

    - By discussion.

    - Without physical contact.

    b2) The most deeply pedigreed of all the martial arts that exists.


    C) Is perhaps considered to be one of the most the dynamic arts that exists.


    And this is never more so than when it’s practiced at the level that Mayweather, Rigondeax, and perhaps a few others, execute it at.

    Where millimetre perfect technical precision - in both offensive and defensive contexts - is regularly achieved both, with the style they choose to adopt and throughout the entire contest.

    Therefore, (just as it’s substantiated by the above analysis - let alone that which is yet to follow) it stands that (regardless of your subjective opinion of Floyd’s personality and/or the defensive and perceivably “safe” approach he chooses to inhabit when boxing/competing), whenever it comes to;

    A) Publishing and/or throwing around selective disapproval of anyone whom has mastered the art and/or can box as good as Floyd.

    B) Engaging in the popular passtime of “Mayweather Detracting”.

    Not only, does it pay to check the facts.

    But also, it’s not a bad idea to ask yourself how - in subscribing to the popular passtime of of “Mayweather Detracting” (if you do) - you’re not simply (within the aforementioned contexts);

    A) Ignoring the fact that you’re potentially misaligned with and disrespecting boxing for the majestic and dynamic martial art that it is.

    B) Validating that you're both comfortably biased and unwilling to acknowledge both reality and how truly difficult it is to master boxing skills as well as Floyd Mayweather.



    Moving on . . . .

    Has anybody noticed how;

    A) Matthew Macklin and Nobuhiro Ishida’s 3 fights immediately prior to fighting Golovkin, both involved 2 losses and 1 win?

    B) The same can't be said of Zab Judah’s 5 previous opponents before fighting Floyd?



    Gennady Golovkin V Kassim Ouma

    - In 2011 when Gennady Golovkin fought Kassim Ouma (27-7-1) for Triple’s WBA middleweight title, out of Ouma’s previous 3 fights he had lost 2 and won 1.

    Let’s now take a brief look at how Ouma went into his fight with Triple and see if anything discovered appealed to K2 promotions and/or had an impact on how Ouma served and/or was selected as an opponent.

    Kassim Ouma’s 1st fight before fighting Triple (Joey Gilbert) - Win.

    Kassim Ouma, after being dropped in round 5 himself, stopped Joey (20-2-0 going in) in round 6 of their 2010 fight, and in doing so Ouma won the vacant WBA middleweight title.

    Since facing Kassim Ouma in 2010, Joey Gilbert has not competed again in boxing.


    Kassim Ouma’s 2nd fight before fighting Triple (Vanes Martirosyan) - Loss

    In 2010 Kassim Ouma lost a unanimous decision to Martirosyan and in doing so Martirosyan successfully defended the WBO, NABO, and NABF super welterweight titles he had previously won from Willie Lee in 2009.


    Kassim Ouma’s’s 3rd fight before fighting Triple (Gabriel Rosado) - Loss

    Here, in this bout, which took place in 2009; Kassim Ouma lost a split decision to Rosado.

    At the time Rosado was (11-3-0) and Ouma was (26-5-1).


    The summary here is that Kassim Ouma (as was the case with both, Matthew Macklin and Nobuhiro Ishida) had already suffered several recent losses before fighting Triple.

    Furthermore, Kassim Ouma (like Nobuhiro Ishida and some of Gennady Golovkin’s other opponents) fought Triple at a weight that Ouma sometimes ventured into - but (due to the fact that he was really a super welterweight) had not yet really/completely transitioned into.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Now, even though both (Floyd and Gennady) guy’s above-mentioned opponent set (utilized here for the purposes of comparison) had not previously fought guys as good, skilled, and/or experienced as Floyd Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin, prior to meeting them; from above it is already now clear that (prior to Floyd Mayweather) Zab Judah, and also the other opponents that Floyd himself fought when he stepped up in weight, themselves don’t represent fighters with critical opponent paths that are as concerning and/or as removed in class from Floyd Mayweather - as, say, those in Triple's critical opponent path . . . .

    Whom were mostly nowhere near Gennady Golovkin’s class and sometimes not even adjusted to the actual weight that the contest took place at; which - for Gennady Golovkin - is the polar opposite of (Floyd) moving up in weight.

    So, even at this stage of the enquiry it appears that Floyd Mayweather steps up in weight, generally fights a better class of opposition and - particularly by comparison to Gennady Golovkin - receives more ridicule for it.

    Should we also conclude that Gennady Golovkin must fight softer foes in order to remain unbeaten like Floyd Mayweather?

    Perhaps the answer to that will reveal itself later.

    In any case, from just the above, even at this early stage (as there are quite a few more additions to this thread/post to come yet) it appears that all “Mayweather Detractors” that wish to continue considering themselves to be both consistent and Gennady Golovkin fans have some important decisions to make, some of which include;

    A) Recalibrating their approach to “Mayweather Detracting”.

    B) Start “Gennady Golovkin Detracting”.




    In addition to the above-mentioned considerations, there is also the fact that some of Gennady Golovkin’s opponent set appears to have sustained more recent and significant losses just prior to fighting him; than even Zab Judah had immediately prior to Floyd facing him.

    Clearly this doesn’t apply to Triple’s last fight with Jacobs; but we will get to that and other pertinent matters within the future and/or upcoming parts of this article.

    Furthermore, it can also be seen that in the cases where Triple’s opponent choices do not have recent losses going in and/or are undefeated; in that case they are often (respectively) vastly inexperienced and/or out of their depth - or at a weight disadvantage.

    Take, for instance, Wade and Lemieux.

    Both, prior to facing Gennady Golovkin, have never faced an opponent with even half the amount of amateur experience Triple has.


    Anyway, hopefully this adds a little clarity to any debate as to whom cherry picks opponents, deserves ridicule.

    And, also to whether Zab Judah - in the context of Gennady Golovkin’s opponents - represents a more challenging opponent, and greater threat/risk (even if Floyd didn’t step up in weight for that fight and somehow remained in the same division); as Triple has had with all the below and above-mentioned opponents he has faced.


    Not in the least as Zab Judah probably - most likely even at that time when Floyd faced him - still represented a more competent and worthy opponent, than, say, Daniel Jacobs (with all his questionable advantages) did for Gennady Golovkin; a few months back.


    And, if it does (add some clarity about Zab Judah - in the context of Gennady Golovkin’s opponents - and how he represents a more challenging opponent, and greater threat than Jacobs without all advantages achieved by violating the IBF rules) then, perhaps we also have clarity on whether Floyd is in a position to tell Gennady Golovkin to step his game up a bit.

    Not in the least as Gennady Golovkin, Sanchez, and K2 have - for years - been doing the very thing that many have been seriously ridiculing Floyd Mayweather for doing; fighting.

    And that is, matching Gennady Golovkin’s opponents - in a careful, methodological, and calculated manner - that really have (if not none, then) very little change of winning.


    Yet many fans have been accepting it.

    And, this is probably only so for reasons one can only assume are related to the fact that Gennady Golovkin knocks opponents (that are, if not more than, then, at least, as questionable as whom Floyd fights) out.

    Nevertheless, Gennady Golovkin is still to participate in a truly marquee fight and - in the way Floyd did with MayPac - prove a lot of ({Pacquaio and/or} Triple) fans wrong; due to how genuinely even the fight appears on the outset.

    Still, the fact that Triple (usually) knocks guys out and doesn’t appear to conduct himself in a controversial manner like Floyd Mayweather, bodes well for his popularity; even if a detailed look at how he matches himself may not.


    So, despite it all, I would openly challenge anyone to show me how Gennady Golovkin takes on more risks and regularly selects better challenges than Floyd Mayweather did.


    And - for those whom do dare to; step up, justify the ridicule Floyd receives, believe Floyd is in no position to “advise” Triple on risk, and show us all how Gennady Golovkin takes on more risks and regularly selects better challenges than Floyd Mayweather did . . . .

    To assist with that task, I have below compiled a brief risk management approach pertaining to a the typical Sanchez and K2 approach to a Gennady Golovkin fight and/or opponent.

    I am sure you will find it interesting, and it goes a little like this.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    Closing Parts To Point 19 & Zab Judah (Part 4c) Goes Here; coming soon.



    --------------------------------- Next Part Coming Soon --------------------------------





    Next up (and coming soon) we continue with the comparison, analysis, keep asking the hard questions, deliver the unpopular answers, and much more !!!!!

    Stay tuned folks.



    Cheers,


    Storm.

    stormcentre@outlook.com






    Last edited by stormcentre; 04-19-2017 at 04:08 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Part 2 now added within the main body of original thread and post #2.

    Enjoy.


    Cheers,

    Storm.






  4. #4
    Senior Member SuperLight's Avatar
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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Good work, stormcentre. I like the fact you like Golovkin and the "Bloc style" and are yet willing to dispassionately examine his career to date and perhaps the machinations behind.

    GGG vs Lara would be interesting for sure. At what weight limit, and with or without a belt on the line? Álvarez gets so much flak for playing the "hydration" game, justifiably so in my opinion. Would it be much different for Golovkin vs Lara or anyone in a lower weight class?

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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    college-advice_copy_21-530x317.jpg


    Floyd used time intervals between fights as an essential ingredient in his "cherry Picking" approach. Plenty of rest while his opponents get beat up. That was smart for him because he got big payback in paydays. GGG, however, needs to fight more so that he can finally get that one big payday. Canelo will offer that if it ever happens. Otherwise, he will be forced to step up in weight. In some ways, GGG is between Iraq and a hard place.
    Last edited by Kid Blast; 10-02-2016 at 11:40 AM.

  6. #6
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Interesting take KB. If I may be the devils advocate here, it could also be said that Ray Leonard cherry picked Marvelous Marvin Hagler after a two year hiatus.

    But despite the analysis from several trusted "insiders" ... who claim that Marvin was drinking and not training correctly for the most high profile and financially rewarding fight of his career, .... Marvin should have still been considered as the favorite, which he was,.... due to his level of activity (even though Leonard said he had a couple of "mock fights" behind closed doors) in addition to his size and strength advantage, However during and after their epic confrontation, Leonard was never accused of being a "cherry picking".

    Its nearly impossible to maintain a physical advantage after a long periods of inactivity ,...this I know from personal experience. Even Ali had changed drastically after his license was revoked for 3 years.

    To continue this pattern of evidence,... SOG Ward also looked a little chunky and slightly incumbered by his involuntary layoff in his last two fights.

    In fact the fighter who can gain the advantage by waiting out the competition at the age of plus + 32 years old is extremely rare has to be considered a "wunderkind" or a physical anomaly, but cherry picker is the last word I could use to describe such a phenomenonal gift of physical prowess.

    Floyd always said that he was "God" gifted.... I always thought that description was a cliche, but it appears to be an honest self-assessment that defies any arguments to the contrary.
    Last edited by brownsugar; 10-02-2016 at 01:48 PM.

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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Actually, Marvin was not all that active and SRL knew it and also knew Marvin could be had by watching the Mugabi fight that took a lot out of Hagler.

    I disagree as bit on your point re maintaining a physical advantage after a long periods of inactivity and I have an article due that will explain why. In Mayweather's case, he was a gym rat who trained and trained and trained. That was part of his overall strategy because he knew he was not subject to much ring rust and the record bears this out. The issue is: What constitutes a long period of activity?

    Floyd used both time intervals and opponents; not just time intervals.

  8. #8
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Blast View Post
    Actually, Marvin was not all that active and SRL knew it and also knew Marvin could be had by watching the Mugabi fight that took a lot out of Hagler.

    I disagree as bit on your point re maintaining a physical advantage after a long periods of inactivity and I have an article due that will explain why. In Mayweather's case, he was a gym rat who trained and trained and trained. That was part of his overall strategy because he knew he was not subject to much ring rust and the record bears this out. The issue is: What constitutes a long period of activity?

    Floyd used both time intervals and opponents; not just time intervals.
    OK KB, I can see how you feel that way, but I disagree.

    Compared to Leonard who was semi retired after his classic duel with Hearns in 81'
    and only fought weak contenders, Finch in 82' and Howard in 84', ....by comparison Hagler was the proverbial hardest working man in boxing .... he fought Roldan and Hamsho in 84', Hearns in 85' and Mugabi in 86 and finally Leonard in 87'.

    One one hand you say Marvin was too inactive, and on the other you say he was too beat up.
    And then you say inactivity doesn't mean much. I respect your opinion ...as always.
    But you can't have it all three ways.

    By your very definition Sugar would be the biggest cherry picker in boxing if he perceived Hagler as being ripe for the taking...... however I read recently that Leonard was elevated above Robinson on someone's list as the greatest boxer in history.... debatable of course, but perceptions change and evolve over time.

    There are too many double standards in boxing.... Floyd a natural Jr welter beats Oscar Del LA Hoya at his natural weight of 165 ( a rehydrated Jr middle) and gets called a cherry picker because Oscar lost to Shane and BHop,

    but Pac beats Oscar 4 years later at 145 with a rehydration limit and become a hero and an international sensation overnight.

    After the fight ODH said it took him months to get the weight back on as he literally flirted with clinical starvation, the irreversible type that causes the victims stomach to enlarge.

    Floyd allegedly cherry picked Shane, when nobody would face Shane(after his destruction of Margarito), Even Roach said publically numerous times that Shane was a bit too much for Pac...immediately after the fight.

    But after Floyd routes Shane in a popular one-sided PPV event where opinions are split, everybody wants a piece of Shane, and line up at his doorstep including Pac and Canelo,...they reap the benefits and don't event get labeled as cherry pickers in the process.

    Regarding Floyd's dedication to his craft, and his label as being a gymrat. Maybe so. Floyd often talks about his secret morning aerobic routine ... but implying that its a negative is the same as implying that GGG is a cheat for punching so hard and having great stamina. Boxers are supposed to prepare to win.

    My goal is not to change your opinion ...everybody can think what they want.... Im just here yo offer a different view.

    Guerrero and Berto didn't have a chance but nobody actually had a chance against Mayweather. One of the greatest boxers ever. And no one was as consistent against top opposition as Mayweather. If anyone believes Floyd was a cherrypicker , look at the careers of Cotto, Canelo, and Pac after Mayweather, they all went on to have great successes,

    Just proves how good Floyd was, a good matchmaker, yes, s great businessman, of course ... but also one of the best ever in the ring..
    Just my humble opinion.

  9. #9
    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperLight View Post
    Good work, stormcentre. I like the fact you like Golovkin and the "Bloc style" and are yet willing to dispassionately examine his career to date and perhaps the machinations behind.

    GGG vs Lara would be interesting for sure. At what weight limit, and with or without a belt on the line? Álvarez gets so much flak for playing the "hydration" game, justifiably so in my opinion. Would it be much different for Golovkin vs Lara or anyone in a lower weight class?

    Ta.


    Storm.


  10. #10
    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Re: Does Floyd Have The Right To Tell 3G To Step Up? The Definitive Analysis & Final Word On Whom Cherry Picks & Mayweather Detracts The Most.

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    OK KB, I can see how you feel that way, but I disagree.

    Compared to Leonard who was semi retired after his classic duel with Hearns in 81'
    and only fought weak contenders, Finch in 82' and Howard in 84', ....by comparison Hagler was the proverbial hardest working man in boxing .... he fought Roldan and Hamsho in 84', Hearns in 85' and Mugabi in 86 and finally Leonard in 87'.

    One one hand you say Marvin was too inactive, and on the other you say he was too beat up.
    And then you say inactivity doesn't mean much. I respect your opinion ...as always.
    But you can't have it all three ways.

    By your very definition Sugar would be the biggest cherry picker in boxing if he perceived Hagler as being ripe for the taking...... however I read recently that Leonard was elevated above Robinson on someone's list as the greatest boxer in history.... debatable of course, but perceptions change and evolve over time.

    There are too many double standards in boxing.... Floyd a natural Jr welter beats Oscar Del LA Hoya at his natural weight of 165 ( a rehydrated Jr middle) and gets called a cherry picker because Oscar lost to Shane and BHop,

    but Pac beats Oscar 4 years later at 145 with a rehydration limit and become a hero and an international sensation overnight.

    After the fight ODH said it took him months to get the weight back on as he literally flirted with clinical starvation, the irreversible type that causes the victims stomach to enlarge.

    Floyd allegedly cherry picked Shane, when nobody would face Shane(after his destruction of Margarito), Even Roach said publically numerous times that Shane was a bit too much for Pac...immediately after the fight.

    But after Floyd routes Shane in a popular one-sided PPV event where opinions are split, everybody wants a piece of Shane, and line up at his doorstep including Pac and Canelo,...they reap the benefits and don't event get labeled as cherry pickers in the process.

    Regarding Floyd's dedication to his craft, and his label as being a gymrat. Maybe so. Floyd often talks about his secret morning aerobic routine ... but implying that its a negative is the same as implying that GGG is a cheat for punching so hard and having great stamina. Boxers are supposed to prepare to win.

    My goal is not to change your opinion ...everybody can think what they want.... Im just here yo offer a different view.

    Guerrero and Berto didn't have a chance but nobody actually had a chance against Mayweather. One of the greatest boxers ever. And no one was as consistent against top opposition as Mayweather. If anyone believes Floyd was a cherrypicker , look at the careers of Cotto, Canelo, and Pac after Mayweather, they all went on to have great successes,

    Just proves how good Floyd was, a good matchmaker, yes, s great businessman, of course ... but also one of the best ever in the ring..
    Just my humble opinion.

    I was wondering when you might wade into the thread.

    What's happening BS?


    Storm.


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