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Thread: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

  1. #1

    AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    [img]http://75a9.http.cdn.softlayer.net/0075A9/thesweetscience/images/Roman-Gonzalez-910.jpg[/img]

    Timing can be everything, even when considering boxing’s best pound for pound fighter.
    It’s been quite awhile that anyone below featherweight was considered as the top pound for pound fighter, but with the retirement of Floyd Mayweather, a void has opened for the likes of Roman “Chocolatito” Gonzalez.
    But should the Nicaraguan mighty mite be tabbed the best?
    Not since Nonito Donaire has anyone in the lighter weights deserved attention and before that you had to go back to Mexico’s Ricardo “Finito” Lopez to mention a fighter worth arguing about. Donaire had that dizzying speed and Finito the cruise missile-like precision.
    Chocolatito has skillful power, through strength and incredible determination.
    Does the flyweight world champion deserve to be placed above WBA, IBF and WBO heavyweight titlist Wladimir Klitschko?
    Klitschko hasn’t endured a loss in 11 years and hasn’t been close to losing a match since meeting Samuel Peter in 2005. He may not be aesthetically pleasing with his hit and hold method taught to him by the late great Emanuel Steward, but neither was Mayweather’s safety-first approach.
    The last man to defeat Klitschko was Lamon Brewster back in 2004. After that fight the younger brother of Vitali tweaked his style and has been a force in the heavyweight division. No one has been able to present a semblance of danger for Klitschko. David Haye fell miserably short of any kind of challenge. He talked a good game but could not muster the guts to exchange with Klitschko after feeling his power early in their 12-round match in 2011.
    Has Chocolatito showed that kind of Klitschko dominance?
    When the Nicaraguan first arrived in the U.S. he fought in the Pomona Fairgrounds against Mexico’s Ramon Hirales in defense of the WBA light flyweight world title. It was 2012 and I had been following his ascent. That day I first saw him perform in person and immediately could determine that Hirales was overmatched. Gonzalez was technically proficient, patient, strong, and pounced on the Mexican challenger like a puma when the opening came in the fourth round.
    That night emphatically convinced me he was among the best fighters in the world pound for pound. No doubt.
    The next time Gonzalez fought in the U.S., I saw him clash against Mexico’s dynamic Juan Francisco Estrada at the L.A. Sports Arena. It was epic.
    Estrada proved to be Gonzalez’s Joe Frazier. Unlike others, Estrada proved durable and eager to exchange against the Nicaraguan prizefighter with dynamite punches. They blasted each other, changed tactics and changed again. Just when it looked like Gonzalez was tiring he discovered another notch in his gun and edged Estrada by decision. The judges scored it much wider than those in the media. It was razor close.
    Like the warrior he is, Gonzalez wants to clear all doubts about his superiority.
    “I would like to have a rematch with “El Gallo” (Estrada), which I think would be a very good fight, but right now, I am focused on Brian Viloria on October 17,” Gonzalez says. “I would even go back down to 108.”
    Yes, Viloria stands in the way of Chocolatito. It’s the Nicaraguan’s toughest opponent since Estrada. It’s power versus power when these two meet in Madison Square Garden. If Gonzalez can survive Viloria, then he can meet Estrada in a rematch or go up a division to challenge Japan’s incredibly talented Naoya Inouye. For the next three fights the boxing world will see if Gonzalez can survive the mother of all tests. If he does, then he deserves to be named the top fighter pound for pounder.
    Right now, I’d have to go with Klitschko. The Ukrainian prizefighter hasn’t lost since 2004, the year Gonzalez fought his pro debut.

  2. #2
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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    I agree with Avila. Klitschko is #1 P4P in my opinion too. Definitely an unpopular sentiment, but Klitschko is SO much better than his opposition, and has been for years and years and years. The reflexive argument is that his opposition is terrible. Fair enough. But 11 years is a long time, and maybe Klitschko's just that good. I'm not buying the argument that the heavyweight championship doesn't matter anymore and has lost all its luster. It's still a big deal, and Klitschko's bank account shows that a heavyweight champion does pretty well. The planet is big, and plenty of guys would like to trade places with him. He's too good for his own good when it comes to the P4P list.

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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    Chocolatito is superbad. Maybe he should not be in that spot, but neither should Doc Wladimir. If he gets pass Tyson "Fist of" Fury, then I could maybe put him as the pound-for-pound top gun.

    Nowadays, his legs are shot as his chin. GOAT Ali's gypsy cousin is going to end the reign of the doc in November. Holla!

  4. #4

    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    Pound 4 pound, skill for skill, both of these fighters take a back seat to Ward and Rigo. I mean Rigo is so bad that he can't even get any of the mainstream guys in his division to lace up with him. Ward had a significant lay off, but he is still Andre Ward skill wise until proven otherwise. It's the skills that pay the bills, don't get it twisted.

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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoulder Roll Defense View Post
    Pound 4 pound, skill for skill, both of these fighters take a back seat to Ward and Rigo. I mean Rigo is so bad that he can't even get any of the mainstream guys in his division to lace up with him. Ward had a significant lay off, but he is still Andre Ward skill wise until proven otherwise. It's the skills that pay the bills, don't get it twisted.
    Ditto! Holla!

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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    Without going into a long Klitschko bashing dissertation regarding boxing skills, ....... and I don't mean to do that,.... I'll just say that Chocolatito displays twice as much skill, technique, and boxing ability than WK could ever learn in two lifetimes.... The things Gonzales does in the ring and the arsenal he employs while in the process of breaking down his opponents is exponentially beyond anything WK is capable of.... and I don't even want to bring Mayweather into the conversation. WK hasn't even mastered (or used)a check hook.

    However the path to glory is strewn with the remains of ultra skilled fighters with otherworldly coordination who didnt have the character, discipline and consistency to remain on top for any where close to a full decade. The fact that WK can still avoid temptation, and exercise the discipline to work hard, eat correctly and dedicate himself to his craft is equally as important as posessing a library of advanced technique and physical coordination. WK has honed tweaked and adapted his style to doing what works best for his physical attributes...and that fine with me.

    The argument for Gonzales is that he employs so much technique that he makes winning look easy and beautiful, because he uses a very sophisticated and advanced offence, somewhat like Golovkin. (He's not just walking guys down) One way or another there is so much redundancy in his attack, that ultimately,.... there is no escape. But like Hopkins, Old man Wlad has earned the right to lay claim the P4p title due to his seniority and his sterling record (despite all the no name competition)... its a purely subjective choice and either man is qualified in my opinion.

    I ain't mad.
    Last edited by brownsugar; 10-09-2015 at 11:18 PM.

  7. #7

    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    Over Klitschko? Hell yea!! No comparison! The writer doesn't know what comprises P4P. It's not about how many title bouts you've had or how much money you make. P4P has criteria, you should look it up!!! Klitschko? Sugar Ray Robinson would be rolling in his grave!!!

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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    What does comprise the P4P criteria? The only argument against Klitschko, in my opinion, is he wouldn't have beaten his brother. Other than that, he's made his opposition look like mincemeat compared to any other fighter that exists. Floyd Mayweather, for example, was the consensus P4P guy prior. But remember, he eked out a win against Maidana in the first fight, a guy that doesn't even populate the top 30 on the list. Klitschko hasn't had a close fight in aeons (his equivalent of Maidana as an opponent is an 8th round KO where he wins every round with a couple 2 point rounds mixed in). It's a subjective call, and Klitschko is generally reviled through and through, but his domination/excellence is head and shoulders above even Golovkin.

    I'd like to read Mortcola's opinion on this. Please chime in if you come across this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mortcola's Avatar
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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    OK! You wanted Mortcola? Howdy. Klitschko doesn’t have to be P4P in the world. He is up there in many ways - I think you knowledgeable folks don’t quite appreciate that his timing, mastery of distance, sharpshooting, and one punch power with either hand, especially the challenging left hook lead, are as good as anyone’s. He has about a dozen different kinds of jabs - rare for a heavyweight. take an Adderall and watch one of his good fights concentrating only on his feet, and then his jab, and then timing vis a vis the opponent’s punches - you will see GOAT-candidate strengths there. But, honestly, is he a GOAT overall, P4P over the popular choices? - notch below, in terms of virtuosity, sheer holy-shite chops. But there’s also gestalt - the whole picture. And he has been equally dominant against almost every style and size he’s ever fought except Sanders, who blindsided a young and arrogant version of him. Entertaining? Not in any classic sense. But for mastery of small details that amount to utter domination, he has to be on the short list. No one is even competitive, except, strangely, Jennings, who I just think fought Wlad on an off night. Don’t mistake the two categories. As for who would have won in a fight with Vitali - their original German trainer compared Vitali to stone and Wlad to clay. Vitali was an improviser whose reflexes and rubber-man coordination allowed him to dissect whatever whatever was in front of him, while looking weird. Also, high punch output, for those who call him boring also - he is VERY different than Wlad. But Wlad might have beaten him with classic boxing and,as Steward said, the hardest power punches he ever encountered. All speculation. And Vitali might have managed it with will, chin and sheer power. but, as for Wlad’s chin, he hasn’t even been wobbled except for a little buzz here and there in over ten years - his problem was anxiety, not chin, which I would rate as maybe like Holmes’ or a notch below. Now, against Fury, in two minutes - Fury is barely taller at all - nowhere NEAR 6’9”, and he is crude but busy and gutsy. And maybe that shows up Wlad’s first official old-guy fight. But I don’t expect so.

  10. #10
    Senior Member mortcola's Avatar
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    Re: AVILA ASKS: Should Chocolatito Be Number One P4P Over Klitschko?

    Old fighter. Stiff fighter. I’m retiring. My credibility just went south. Fury could barely hit him and still shut him down.

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