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Thread: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

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  1. #1

    Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    [img]http://75a9.http.cdn.softlayer.net/0075A9/thesweetscience/images/Cotto-Canelo-d2111.jpg[/img]

    The boxing world has been hungering for a real-deal super fight, a pairing that would surpass the Super Bowl of over-hype, an antidote to the Ishtar was Mayweather-Pacquiao.
    Hopes abounded that the Saturday night clash, between Miguel Cotto, an aging but resurgent Puerto Rican icon, and the cinnamon-topped Mexican hitter Canelo Alvarez, would fill the bill, make us forget that night when Mayweather and Pacquiao made oodles of cash, but not one fan to the sport.

    And you know what, it satisfied.

    More so if you are a fan of Canelo; after 12 rounds, the judges had it for the Mexican, whose power was superior and whose stamina was quite reasonable, by scores of 117-111, 119-109, 118-110.

    Canelo snagged that many more fans when he spoke to Max Kellerman after, and said hell yes, me and Gennady Golovkin can fight right now.

    Cotto left the ring and then refused to chat with Kellerman in his dressing room.

    For those wondering, no, there is no rematch clause.

    The Ring middleweight title was up for grabs, though the max weight was 155, or under.

    Canelo, age 25, came in with a 44-1 mark, Cotto, age 35, was 40-4.

    In the first, Cotto was moving ever so smartly. Canelo was a step behind.

    In the second, we saw more movement from the Puerto Rican, and Canelo looked to close the distance. A sharp right from Cotto was the best land of the round.

    In the third, Canelo got a bead on him. His right was on message. Slip, dip and rip right from Canelo was spot on.

    In the fourth, they were trading jabs. Cotto was moving, and busy, and Canelo was having fun, dancing some. His right hand made Cotto blink hard.

    In the fifth, Cotto ripped combos. A left upper from Canelo landed clean and this fight was tight. In the sixth, more shuffles from Canelo. The jab from the Mexican was effective. Lederman had him up 4-2. In the seventh, Cotto was more stationary, and looked to fight inside. Canelo was so confident, his right upper after a Cotto right fell short, was nasty. Was this the round of cruciality, when you knew Canelo would get that W?

    In the eighth, Cotto wanted more space, and his work in the second half of the round, based on his legs, won it for him.

    In the ninth, Cotto had the edge in power punches. Cotto's jab and movement worked for him, too, though. In the tenth, Cotto was busier early. He had good energy...Cotto complained he was hit on his back. He was dancing, then Cotto got stumbled late. In the 11th, Cotto was moving, maybe too much. He was looking less fresh. In the 12th, we got some action we were hoping for, rumbling. A cut formed on the Cotto left eye, and he looked in avoidant mode.

    To the cards...

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  2. #2
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sweet Science View Post
    [img]http://75a9.http.cdn.softlayer.net/0075A9/thesweetscience/images/Cotto-Canelo-d2111.jpg[/img]

    The boxing world has been hungering for a real-deal super fight, a pairing that would surpass the Super Bowl of over-hype, an antidote to the Ishtar was Mayweather-Pacquiao.
    Hopes abounded that the Saturday night clash, between Miguel Cotto, an aging but resurgent Puerto Rican icon, and the cinnamon-topped Mexican hitter Canelo Alvarez, would fill the bill, make us forget that night when Mayweather and Pacquiao made oodles of cash, but not one fan to the sport.
    And you know what, it satisfied.
    More so if you are a fan of Canelo; after 12 rounds, the judges had it for the Mexican, whose power was superior and whose stamina was quite reasonable, by scores of 117-111, 119-109, 118-110.
    The Ring middleweight title was up for grabs, though the max weight was 155, or under.
    Canelo, age 25, came in with a 44-1 mark, Cotto, age 35, was 40-4.
    In the first, Cotto was moving ever so smartly. Canelo was a step behind.
    In the second, we saw more movement from the Puerto Rican, and Canelo looked to close the distance. A sharp right from Cotto was the best land of the round.
    In the third, Canelo got a bead on him. His right was on message. Slip, dip and rip right from Canelo was spot on.
    In the fourth, they were trading jabs. Cotto was moving, and busy, and Canelo was having fun, dancing some. His right hand made Cotto blink hard.
    In the fifth, Cotto ripped combos. A left upper from Canelo landed clean and this fight was tight. In the sixth, more shuffles from Canelo. The jab from the Mexican was effective. Lederman had him up 4-2. In the seventh, Cotto was more stationary, and looked to fight inside. Canelo was so confident, his right upper after a Cotto right fell short was nasty.
    In the eighth, Cotto wanted more space, and his work in the second half of the round, based on his legs, won it for him.
    In the ninth, Cotto had the edge in power punches. Cotto's jab and movement worked for him, too, though. In the tenth, Cotto was busier early. He had good energy...Cotto complained he was hit on his back. He was dancing, then Cotto got stumbled late. In the 11th, Cotto was moving, maybe too much. He was looking less fresh. In the 12th, we got some action we were hoping for, rumbling. A cut formed on the Cotto left eye, and he looked in avoidant mode. To the cards...
    I love your last paragraph about Cotto moving maybe too much. The only pug in the game that may move like a running, scary bytch and still win rounds is Money May. Holla!

  3. #3
    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    What up with Cotto running out of the ring and not giving an interview? Cotto seems like a nice man and I don't dislike him but I am so tired of his diva stuff since joining Roach. I wanted Roach to prove or disprove how good a trainer he is to everyone. He did. I already had my opinion prior to this. I've never seen any coach or trainer take a person or team that wasn't great already and make them great. Never do they take the very good and make them great or the good and make them very good, perhaps for a game but not overall. Look at any great team or athlete and it is like looking at an all-star listing or a who's who in the sport. They make people better by teaching or giving a strategy but they get way too much credit. And Roach gets way, way too much credit. He is always weight draining an opponent or making them give up some concession to lose the fight before it starts. Cotto never really was the middle weight champ in truth. He was recognized as such because he beat a fighter on his last legs as could have several people had they fought Martinez at that point. To make matters worse after that Roach and Cotto pulled out the magician's hat and started the illusions of being better than they really were. Cotto fought a good fight last night, he didn't win, has more options if he decides to continue, he loved his diva role, he didn't like the other side of it before he got with Roach, he should have shown more class in defeat.
    And all those wise and truthful words are most likely why Cotto (and Roach) didn't stay around after the fight DB.

    Too many uncomfortable and embarrassing questions; and that's even if Roach hadn't (again) shot his mouth off before a big fight.

    I thought Roaches' attitude at Kellerman's face off was bordering on rude and too arrogant.

    Particularly when they (Cotto included) hinted at how there was a mole in Canelo's sparring camp and chuckled at that.

    That was the point when I felt even more confident with my prediction.

    Freddy - with many of his champions - doesn't just love an advantage before the fight, he's almost completely dependent upon it now.

    As to his own (and other's) comments about how he has cleaned up Cotto's style.

    That's laughable.

    Any practical and skilled observer in the art of boxing could see that Freddy - aside from ensuring Cotto trains hard and takes instructions better than before - has done very little that's meaningful to Cotto's boxing arsenal.

    For instance' notice how Cotto (during the Alvarez fight) was still *leaning forward, sometimes leading with his forehead, and susceptible to uppercuts; some of which Canelo was (disrespectfully) dropping in right off the jab?

    Try doing that combination in your next spar against seasoned foes and see how quickly the spar heats up.

    This* was meant to be corrected ages ago; or so we were told.


    Same for Cotto's balance issues.

    Miguel's balance - compared to Canelo's (whose is not brilliant) - was shocking.

    Just as it's why Canelo can throw fluid and faster combinations; it's one major reason why Cotto lunges in with punches and can't throw fluent combinations.

    It's a fundamental vulnerability and Cotto-issue that was present/obvious and capitalized on in both the Mayweather and Trout fights; so Freddy should know about it.

    Yet, zilch has been meaningfully done on it by Freddy.

    Well done Freddy; you really fixed that.


    Roach is more of a well positioned/connected manager that not only knows the business/contractual side of the game - but can also provide good sparring and/or train boxers/fighters reasonably well; provided they have already learned the fundamentals of their trade.

    Provided these abilities/skills of Roach (or the lack of them) ensures his fighters win (and provided they're not smart enough to differentiate between them and real knowledge; people may be surprised how many can't) Freddy's fighters usually don't ask questions.

    This holds particularly true for instances where Roaches' network/promotional connections (whether or not they're combined with Freddy's ability to inject contractual riders into agreements that marginalize opponents) ensure fighters earn more than otherwise might be the case.

    However, Freddy's ability to really coach and educate boxing athletes (whether it be from "scratch" or not) in a manner where they are provided with clearly identifiable skills and strategies that make a difference, is unfortunately far less obvious than all the things Roach says and does - contractually and otherwise - prior to the fight itself.

    I have had this view before the Cotto V Canelo fight.


    Finally, I see Pascal is looking to train at the Wild Card gym.

    Now there's a guy that has a lot of learning and skills to improve on.

    Let's watch intently and see how much his association with Roach improves the area's Pascal needs to have improved.

    I am already smiling at the notion and waiting for all the boxing commentators and writers to start telling us how Freddy's coaching skills have changed Pascal's career..


  4. #4
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    I really hate it when I miss a pick.... Gotta give credit to the little old men in Vegas who make the odds. Cotto fought a brave fight, closing the gap between the the gaps of Canelos' inattentiveness many time s during the fight while avoiding getting clipped hard enough to hit the canvas.

    But it was watching like a hunter with a peashooter trying to take down an elephant. I still thought the fight was closer than a 6 point wide margin. 7-5 rounds in Canelo's favor would have been fair, and the kid didn't even get drained before the final bell.

    Good strategy by Canelo, However Cotto has no need to hang his head, he would have received a draw or a split decision in New York or Puerto Rico.

    And yes I admit it, Canelo knows how to box,... Still don't care for him, but he deserves his accolades, now lets see him fight someone his own size next time out... No more Mathew Hattons or Miguel Cottos, he looks like he's ready for the winner of Jacobs vs Quillin, Andy Lee, Korobov, Saunders, and last but not least, Triple G!.... Or even give Lara a rematch....and leave Floyd out of it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Well, you do get most of them right.

    So don't be too hard on yourself.

    You picked Postol against Mattysse, and there were quite a few going the other way.

    Cotto did alright.

    He was just in there with a guy that had too much youth, strength, weight, speed, and firepower.



  6. #6
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Quote Originally Posted by stormcentre View Post
    Well, you do get most of them right.

    So don't be too hard on yourself.

    You picked Postol against Mattysse, and there were quite a few going the other way.

    Cotto did alright.

    He was just in there with a guy that had too much youth, strength, weight, speed, and firepower.


    I appreciate the kind words Storm,... Hey... check out what Floyd said about the fight on fight hype, his comments about Roach are almost identical to yours ( as far as the intent goes, maybe not the same language )

    when I read his interview, I couldn't help thinking, "I've read this before,... on several occasions)....lol.

    Spot on..

  7. #7
    Senior Member stormcentre's Avatar
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Yes, I know it's funny.

    That will - no doubt - just further the misconception that I am biased towards Floyd.

    Lucky for me (or any originality I can be assumed to have ) that I made my related comments prior to that article and then (in another form) previous to that too.

    Perhaps the Mayweathers are copying me !!!!!

    Yeh right.


    I did have one guy (a big Floyd supporter) email me a few months back, claiming that he knew and would tell Floyd what I was writing here (which at the time was pretty supporting of Floyd). But I have no idea who he was and/or if he was for real, and have never heard back from him.

    The same guy might not like me so much if he had read what I wrote about some of Floyd's decisions around the time he was a light/welterweight and fought Henry Bruseles in Florida.

    Or if he had read some of our friendly sparring/debating on a possible Floyd V Tszyu bout.




    Anyway, I think I have said this before but I'll say it again; any reasonably experienced boxer whom is also a practical observer of the art of boxing can easily see that Freddy Roach is not really a "pure" boxing coach in the sense where (even with experienced guys) he can always make successful decisions about what technical attribute a boxer should either let go or incorporate into their arsenal.

    Roaches' understanding of defence is as concerning as it makes his fighters both predictable and vulnerable.

    But, he knows the fight game, is connected, has a lot of fighters he can call on, and he's a reasonably nice guy.

    Mostly though, Freddy get's the big wraps and positive publicity he gets because he's nice to boxing writers and those in the industry, and those people - whether they really (want to) know the positives/limitations of Freddy or not - in turn make simply outrageous statements like "since Cotto has been with Freddy Roach his game has improved 100%" that not only fly in the face of logic but also what you can immediately see; catch-weights and other shenanigans.

    Anyway, these and other considerations are most likely why the Mayweathers say similar things, as love them or hate them they know boxing and what's up.

    Personally, I think Floyd Sr. has way better boxing knowledge than Roach; not to mention Floyd Jr.

    But I am not sure about how well Floyd Sr. can get it across with his pupils.

    Whereas Freddy (with his less boxing knowledge) is probably better in getting it across with his pupils.

    Pick a box; as they say.

    Finally, a good cash out fight for RocN/Cotto now would be Brook.

    Brook would probably take it because of Cotto's profile and the money involved.

    Cotto's style would match up well with Brook too.

    And, Brook would surely not be as tough as Canelo; so Miguel would be reasonably confident there too.

    Brook, would probably be brimming with confidence too, as he would probably think that his technical (and easy to underrate) arsenal would easily cut through the fabric of Cotto's now fundamentally basic veteran style.


  8. #8
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Quote Originally Posted by stormcentre View Post
    Yes, I know it's funny.

    That will - no doubt - just further the misconception that I am biased towards Floyd.

    Lucky for me (or any originality I can be assumed to have ) that I made my related comments prior to that article and then (in another form) previous to that too.

    Perhaps the Mayweathers are copying me !!!!!

    Yeh right.


    I did have one guy (a big Floyd supporter) email me a few months back, claiming that he knew and would tell Floyd what I was writing here (which at the time was pretty supporting of Floyd). But I have no idea who he was and/or if he was for real, and have never heard back from him.

    The same guy might not like me so much if he had read what I wrote about some of Floyd's decisions around the time he was a light/welterweight and fought Henry Bruseles in Florida.

    Or if he had read some of our friendly sparring/debating on a possible Floyd V Tszyu bout.




    Anyway, I think I have said this before but I'll say it again; any reasonably experienced boxer whom is also a practical observer of the art of boxing can easily see that Freddy Roach is not really a "pure" boxing coach in the sense where (even with experienced guys) he can always make successful decisions about what technical attribute a boxer should either let go or incorporate into their arsenal.

    Roaches' understanding of defence is as concerning as it makes his fighters both predictable and vulnerable.

    But, he knows the fight game, is connected, has a lot of fighters he can call on, and he's a reasonably nice guy.

    Mostly though, Freddy get's the big wraps and positive publicity he gets because he's nice to boxing writers and those in the industry, and those people - whether they really (want to) know the positives/limitations of Freddy or not - in turn make simply outrageous statements like "since Cotto has been with Freddy Roach his game has improved 100%" that not only fly in the face of logic but also what you can immediately see; catch-weights and other shenanigans.

    Anyway, these and other considerations are most likely why the Mayweathers say similar things, as love them or hate them they know boxing and what's up.

    Personally, I think Floyd Sr. has way better boxing knowledge than Roach; not to mention Floyd Jr.

    But I am not sure about how well Floyd Sr. can get it across with his pupils.

    Whereas Freddy (with his less boxing knowledge) is probably better in getting it across with his pupils.

    Pick a box; as they say.

    Finally, a good cash out fight for RocN/Cotto now would be Brook.

    Brook would probably take it because of Cotto's profile and the money involved.

    Cotto's style would match up well with Brook too.

    And, Brook would surely not be as tough as Canelo; so Miguel would be reasonably confident there too.

    Brook, would probably be brimming with confidence too, as he would probably think that his technical (and easy to underrate) arsenal would easily cut through the fabric of Cotto's now fundamentally basic veteran style.

    It's ironic, Floyd is no longer the face of boxing but has taken it upon himself to become the "voice" of boxing as his somewhat biased anti-Roach rant has received massive exposure and popular approval.


    Because basically he's right. But how equally ironic it is that he hasn't (at least in the past) yet found a protégé who comes close to being worthy of passing the baton of fame and fortune to? (Badou Jack has done well through perseverance alone however he's the only one who has broken through that Im aware of) But I think the drought has finally ended with the addition of Gervonta Davis and the other kid they are calling the "new" pretty boy Floyd. ...also a couple of other young unsung talents are beginning to emerge. (one is a russian I read somewhere)

    Andre Ward recently gave a scathing video dedicated to appreciating Floyd and even Chocolatito has been seen rubbing elbows with the champ. Seems like after the contraversy, criticizm and scandall he's more popular than ever.

    But it takes a special patience to teach others what you know instinctively, the things an athlete has learned to do with a mere thought or sometimes with the absense of thought because the memory now resides in the muscle.

    Reminds me of the many tasks i learned on my day job, when they as me if i remember how to do a specific task I haven't performed in a while I tell them my fingers remember, and they do, remembering obscure programs and online tools as if they had a mind of their own the minute they hit the keyboard.

    So I can imagine how dificult it is for Floyd to impart to others the things he has learned and completely internalized.... this is where Freddy excels due to the many years he's had to simply teach and learn how to get the most out of his students.

    At the least Roach is a good fitness instructor and offensive coach.
    Cotto fought a good fight, I'm not too sure what more he could have done but Floyd seems to have a good idea. And he should, he made it look easy, I heard another reader (Miguel) say earlier.

    It can be acurately said that your well articulated comments are just a matter of pure observation and not the product of biased, "join the flavor of the month mentality" ...because using Floyd as an example or a measuring stick as it applies to boxing in general is tantamount to nailing yourself on the proverbial cross. Lol..........and People from all walks of life can pick up on that.

    I'm enjoying the commentary.

    Enjoy the holidays.

  9. #9
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    Re: Mexico Gets the Win; Canelo Scores UD12 Victory Over Cotto

    Barely a mention of Miura/Vargas here. Typical. Thanks to the guys who called it. It was brutal.

    Big Shame about Rigo's career self sabotage. One can only hope he'll see the light.

    Canelo is shutting Cotto out on second viewing IMO. The British commentary team is backing cotto.

    Funny old sport.

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