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Thread: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

  1. #11
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Awesome comment!!!! Thank you very much! Hope you liked my post/mini-feature. And thanks for bringing in that thing about Daley! That just goes to show what those that claim to know think they know but don't.

    We have our Daleys de jour in the form of Wilbon, I think the brother's name is, and other ignorant commentators who create that lazy narrative.

    In fact, considering all the elements -- different audiences, boxing's PPV dominance, compensation comparison, compensation surge etc. -- whenever someone says MMA is taking over boxing that just shows me that they have no idea what they're talking about.

    Thanks again, Commish!
    Very nicely done...quick question ....why doesn't the US market want to support eastern bloc fighters?... It seems like even the exciting ones like KK and GGG have to work overtime to gain recognition and support.
    Klitschko I understand why.

  2. #12
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    Very nicely done...quick question ....why doesn't the US market want to support eastern bloc fighters?... It seems like even the exciting ones like KK and GGG have to work overtime to gain recognition and support.
    Klitschko I understand why.
    You don't think they do? I think they are overwhelmingly supportive of them! Just look at Provodnikov, Lomachenko, GGG or Kovalev who all have big profiles here on premium cable.

    I think they're riding an amazing wave at the moment.

    But of course, the demographic element is always there; boxing is a sport where you root for "your own."

    After the real Cold War ended (US-USSR), we started to see the results of these well-schooled guys, who used to terrorize the amateur ranks, come up and make noise in the pros.

  3. #13

    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Doc, that whole "fighting often" thing is actually another distortion.

    Sure, the smaller guys fought frequently but that was because they made no money to speak of. Boxing was mainly about the heavyweights.

    The smaller weight classes in those days were kinda like offensive linemen in the NFL -- underpaid and under appreciated.

    Ali was the exception and it was a big deal at the time. "I'm not like these former champions," Ali told Howard Cossell one time on World Wide Sports (or whatever the name of the show was). "I'm giving these guys a chance to make money by being active."

    From 1959 to 1966, the heavyweight championship of the world had been contested -- held hostage, if you will -- by only FOUR men!

    That's FOUR guys in seven years!!!!

    In fact, the world heavyweight championship was like the main event, the Super Bowl. It came once a year, maybe twice if they were lucky.

    Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Floyd Patterson's record. Sonny Liston's record. Joe Frazier's record, once he captured the lineal championship.

    It's just that the heavyweights don't have the same allure (let's face it, there's a mythical aura about the HW champ -- less so with a guy standing 5-6, weighing less than the average person's teenage children) while the lower classes dominate the big fight landscape.

    Still, your point is very well taken and highly intelligent, as usual. It's boxing's broadcast transformation that gives the illusion to those casual followers that it is struggling when in reality, the so-called struggle couldn't be further from the truth.

    Thanks for your input, I put a bit of research effort into to the post so I appreciate you reading and commenting. Thanks!
    If you are talking about title fights, then yes they did not happen but so often. However many of the big name fighters from the 50's to the early 80's had years where they fought as many as five times. Even the guys you listed like Patterson, Marciano, and Liston had a few years where they fought at least three times. People like Archie Moore, late career Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Walcott, Ali, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton, Foreman, Quarry, Lyle, Shavers, Foster, even on to Larry Holmes and several others fought 3 or more times in a year on quite a few occasions and many times it was after they made a name for themselves.

    Now did they fight as often as the lighter weight guys did, absolutely not. Those guys fought twice a week it seemed like. However as compared to today where a good fighter in any weight class may give you three fights in 18 months, it is a lot more.

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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Really, day 4 and this thread is already a gold mine from all participants.

    I have my work cut out for me. I am gonna continue to linger in the cracks and shadows, remember the Amayseng all seeing eye remains hidden but watching and reading all.

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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Doctor View Post
    If you are talking about title fights, then yes they did not happen but so often. However many of the big name fighters from the 50's to the early 80's had years where they fought as many as five times. Even the guys you listed like Patterson, Marciano, and Liston had a few years where they fought at least three times. People like Archie Moore, late career Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Walcott, Ali, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton, Foreman, Quarry, Lyle, Shavers, Foster, even on to Larry Holmes and several others fought 3 or more times in a year on quite a few occasions and many times it was after they made a name for themselves.

    Now did they fight as often as the lighter weight guys did, absolutely not. Those guys fought twice a week it seemed like. However as compared to today where a good fighter in any weight class may give you three fights in 18 months, it is a lot more.
    Yes, there were more fights. But with the big prize, the championship wasn't contested as much. While they waited for their shot, they had to make money. (This is why fighters love the plethora of belts. More opportunities and shortcuts to championship status.)

    Hopefully, as more broadcasting options become available -- Haymon is investing in slots on NBC and ideas are being tossed around by these younger promoters to showcase guys more across different platforms -- this will be a return to guys being introduced to the public much, much earlier.

    Do you think there's any threat to boxing out there?

  6. #16
    Advanced Users the Roast's Avatar
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Boxing is not going anywhere, I think we all know this. Why not head over to my new segment on Random Topics and chime in on new Roast news and events?

  7. #17
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by the Roast View Post
    Boxing is not going anywhere, I think we all know this. Why not head over to my new segment on Random Topics and chime in on new Roast news and events?
    I went to Random Topics. As soon as I saw Tennis, I bailed out. Sorry.

    Tennis? You were watching tennis? Every top tennis player I have ever met I have wanted to beat up! They are a group of whining, snivelling, spoiled brats. They yell, scream and curse out the officials who don't do a blessed thing to them. Oh, excuse me. The Tennis Association may fine then. Wonderful!

    Can you picture a boxer doing the same to a referee after he hollers "Break!" or "Stop!" or "Watch the low blows!"

    Ever see kids ask a tennis star for their autograph? It would make you cry to see how most of them treat their fans.

    Try to clear your throat at a tennis match. You'll have 10,000 people staring and pointing at you like you just hurled bottles onto the court.

    Boxing is not going anywhere.

    I wish tennis would!

    -Randy G

  8. #18
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    I went to Random Topics. As soon as I saw Tennis, I bailed out. Sorry.

    Tennis? You were watching tennis? Every top tennis player I have ever met I have wanted to beat up! They are a group of whining, snivelling, spoiled brats. They yell, scream and curse out the officials who don't do a blessed thing to them. Oh, excuse me. The Tennis Association may fine then. Wonderful!

    Can you picture a boxer doing the same to a referee after he hollers "Break!" or "Stop!" or "Watch the low blows!"

    Ever see kids ask a tennis star for their autograph? It would make you cry to see how most of them treat their fans.

    Try to clear your throat at a tennis match. You'll have 10,000 people staring and pointing at you like you just hurled bottles onto the court.

    Boxing is not going anywhere.

    I wish tennis would!

    -Randy G
    Dang, Commish! That was COLD! Hehehe! COLD! Holla!

  9. #19
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    I went to Random Topics. As soon as I saw Tennis, I bailed out. Sorry.

    Tennis? You were watching tennis? Every top tennis player I have ever met I have wanted to beat up! They are a group of whining, snivelling, spoiled brats. They yell, scream and curse out the officials who don't do a blessed thing to them. Oh, excuse me. The Tennis Association may fine then. Wonderful!

    Can you picture a boxer doing the same to a referee after he hollers "Break!" or "Stop!" or "Watch the low blows!"

    Ever see kids ask a tennis star for their autograph? It would make you cry to see how most of them treat their fans.

    Try to clear your throat at a tennis match. You'll have 10,000 people staring and pointing at you like you just hurled bottles onto the court.

    Boxing is not going anywhere.

    I wish tennis would!

    -Randy G
    Fair enough Commish, tennis is not for everyone. I have buddies that insist NASCAR is awesome and I should give it a chance. We are talking about cars driving around in circle, not for me.
    Sounds to me like you are talking about tennis from the McEnroe years. They don't berate the officials any more. Serena got DQed in the US Open Final a few years back when she lost it. They have a replay system to check the line calls now to cut back on the arguing. I'd love to see boxing get a little more involved with a replay system in some cases.
    Nowadays players are pretty good to the fans. Top players sigh autographs on the way off the court all the time, even after a tough loss.
    I'm just trying to get something else cooking if people are interested. I play all the time. It's good for the body and the mind. Even old timers like yourself can play at a high level. I'd be happy to hit a few balls with you Randy if you ever get to Chicago. Tell Gerry Cooney I said hello!

  10. #20
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    Re: Boxing's Dying? They've Been Saying That For Over 50 Years...

    I love tennis, been playing it actively since I was 4.

    Not all players are jerks, there are more jerks in golf.

    The only problem I have with today's tennis is the disturbing and annoying grunting going on. I can't even watch it it is so bad.

    Though the game itself is great.

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