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Thread: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

  1. #1
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    The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Gennady Golovkin faces Daniel Geale on Saturday night. Though many experts believe Geale is the toughest foe to date for Golovkin, very few are giving him any chance to pull the upset.

    This bout eerily reminds me of the 1997 clash between Kostya Tsyzu and Vince Phillips. Tsyzu was a seek and destroy type fighter who possessed one punch knockout power and a high knockout ratio. He was undefeated, held a belt and his reputation was growing quickly. Many thought at this point of Tszyu's career that the only threats to him would be those absolutely elite fighters (Oscar De La Hoya for example) and that those fights could potentially be epic. As a matter of fact, he was already getting consideration on some pound for pound lists.

    Tsyzu was going to get an HBO date and HBO wanted him to step up in competition against a name opponent. That opponent turned out to be Vince Phillips.

    Phillips had talent, good skills and a decent record. He had some decent wins on his resume. Phillips also lost a couple of his bigger fights. As a matter of fact, he was coming off a close split decision loss in his previous fight to Romallis Ellis.

    The fight with Ellis was on HBO. It was a very good competitive entertaining fight. The decision really could have gone either way. There were some who thought Phillips won and some who thought Ellis won.

    So coming off a close competitive loss in an HBO fight, Phillips got the opportunity to face the destroyer Tsyzu. The consensus among boxing experts was that Phillips was the best fighter to date for Tszyu and maybe could have some moments. But Tsyzu was too powerful and would get the win in all probability by knockout. I don't recall in the time leading up to that fight anyone predicting a Phillips victory.

    Well Phillips went on and pulled the upset knocking Tszyu out in the 10th rd. On a side note, I always love hearing the commentary on that fight with Roy Jones openly rooting for Phillips and cheering when he got the knockout.

    How is this similar to Golovkin-Geale? Well Geale is a good fighter who is considered to be Golovkin's toughest opponent to date. He has a decent record with a few losses along the way and some good wins on his resume. He has also lost a couple fights.

    Two fights back, Geale was on HBO and fought Darren Barker. It was a good competitive entertaining fight. Geale ended up losing a split decision to Barker. There were some who thought Geale won the fight and some who thought Barker won the fight. I was actually there at the fight and scored it 114-113 for Geale.

    Many people feel Geale will have his moments but ultimately Golovkin will be too strong. I have not seen anyone predict a Geale upset yet.

    One thing about this sport is that good fighters with skills should never be counted out. Geale does have a chance in this fight and its much better than most think. He is not a 6-1 or 7-1 underdog as he is currently being listed. I am not predicting a Geale win myself but believe he does have a very realistic chance of pulling off the upset and its a much better chance than most feel. Before writing off Geale in this fight (which I think a lot of people are doing), just think back to Tszyu-Phillips which was also the 1997 Ring Magazine Upset of the Year.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Yes, good write up and analogy.

    RJJ's commentary was - as always - insightful and accurate. He knew Vince loved to throw down and had a unique and sometimes humorous way of letting the audience know.

    Phillips was both tremendously tough, and also quite clever in his approach to that fight.

    Tszyu, like Vince, fell in love with punching.

    And as Kostya's career trajectory reached great heights that love of punching came with a downside that manifested itself with a neglect for the inside game and defence; that themselves would not ignore or remain unnoticed by father time or injuries.

    Vince had tremendous punch resistance - perhaps as good as it gets - and that combined with both the above factors and also a game-plan to throw down hard with both lead power shots and KO counters - ensured that Tszyu paid the price for both his love of a shoot out (particularly with someone determined) and also how Kostya's hands almost always dropped after power delivery and upon retraction; leaving himself open for counters - if you could handle the incoming fire.

    And Vince did.

    In that fight Kostya's ability to easily be drawn into a gun fight, and ignore his superior boxing skills, worked against him.

    Luckily, like all great champions that face a loss, he dealt with it, moved on, and still became the unified light welterweight champion.

    Not so for Vince, although they don't come much tougher.

    If Geale's defence holds up he can beat 3G. But with the form, stamina and firepower 3G has had it is hard to bet against him in hope that his opponent's defence will be watertight.

    There are a few holes in 3G game though - but for now he and his pressure and power have ensured that no-one can both find and seriously exploit them.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Phillips wasn't special but he put Tszyu off and took away his gameplan that night. Tszyu came back more determined as Stormcentre noted.

    I have also said many times how GGG reminds of me Tszyu in the way he fights, it's very pleasurable to watch. Nice write up.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Skibbz - It is an savvy comparison - but GGG is a considerably more fluid two-handed combination puncher than Tzsu, though his tactics were similar. Tzsyu was stiffer in the upper body and didn’t mix it up as easily. Can you imagine a Ricky Hatton at any point taking apart a guy with the two-sided arsenal of a GGG? Tzsu was very good. GGG is in the running for great.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    When I first saw Golovkin, I was instantly reminded of Tszyu. They hype surrounding Tszyu too in 1997 was very similar to the hype Golovkin is receiving today.

    Much like Tszyu lived up to the a lot of the hype eventually, I think Golovkin can as well. But Golovkin is also far from perfect and there are holes that need to be patched up.

    Similar to Vince Phillips in 1997, people are overlooking Geale in my opinion. Geale is a very skilled fighter. He is very technically sound, knows how to create angles and throw at the right distance and is solid of the defensive end. Geale also has very quick hands and quicker feet than Golovkin. Mark my words, he is going to give Golovkin a fight on Saturday.

    Whenever one good fighter faces another good fighter, anything can happen. Much like Tszyu against Phillips, this is a pretty big step up in competition for Golovkin. I would go as far to say that Geale is the 2nd best Middleweight in the world at the moment behind Golovkin. Geale is a very live underdog and 6-1 odds at the moment are ridiculous in my opinion.

    One other thing, Golovkin could lose here but he could end up becoming a better fighter in the end. We also saw that with Tszyu after he lost to Phillips and go on to a Hall of Fame career.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by mortcola View Post
    Skibbz - It is an savvy comparison - but GGG is a considerably more fluid two-handed combination puncher than Tzsu, though his tactics were similar. Tzsyu was stiffer in the upper body and didn’t mix it up as easily. Can you imagine a Ricky Hatton at any point taking apart a guy with the two-sided arsenal of a GGG? Tzsu was very good. GGG is in the running for great.
    You're right Mort GGG uses a greater variety of punches. I think he looked stiff but that was mainly because he wanted to always be poised to attack. I don't think Hatton could have put up with a prime Tszyu, and I certainly can't imagine him taking apart someone of GGG's calibre. Although Hatton was a good banger he had a lot of holes in his game.. and a bottomless pit of a stomach.


    @Oubobcat I don't think the hype surrounding the two fighters is the same unless you're taking the American context. In Europe, Tszyu was widely recognised as being the top amateur boxer in any division from around the age of 16/17. He destroyed Vernon Forrest in the '91 World Am Champs and went on to becoming a pro soon after. (I will post the fight at the end of this post for you to enjoy.)

    Whilst he was fighting in and out of Australia, he was still fairly raw but his potential was there. I believe in his first showing in the states he was against a tough mexican/american banger who's name has slipped my mind. The mexican had good skills and was a seasoned vet who had never heard of Kostya, and it was much the same for Tszyu of him. When they got going the mexican quickly realised this wasn't a hype job and that Tszyu could fight, and that he had serious dynamite in his hands. I believe it went the distance, and turned into a real war of attrition, but after that display I believe people started to take note in America of the Thunder from Down Under.

    GGG on the other hand, although having spectacular amateur credentials and a host of medals, I never heard of him being spoken about in the same way. In Europe we knew he could stop anyone if he got his leather on them but it was said in the pro's there will be slicksters and cute fighters who will dance rings around him. Not to say that opinion holds true now, just at the time in a lot of boxing circles in Europe that was the talk that surrounded a young Gennady.

    Here's the video of Kostya and Forrest as promised, worth a watch it's very entertaining.


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    Cool Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Tszyu fought Hector Lopez on short notice and with only 10 fights (8 by KO, with 7 of the KO’s in the 1st 2 rounds) under his belt - that's the fight you're trying to remember (Skibbz).

    Before the fight, Hector Lopez . . . what he said about his chances. . was just gold.



    “I just don't know if this kid can go the distance with me to tell you the truth. Because I think I can beat him and stop him".

    “My experience gunna come in. And not just that. If he wants to just go out there and bang, we can do that too".

    "I can beat him at any which way he wants to go".

    "If he wants to box, he can't outbox me. If he wants to trade, hey it's OK too".

    "The bottom line is that I'm gunna control the fight, and my experience gunna control the fight, and it's gunna bet set, at my tempo, and when I wanna pull the cord, I'll pull it".

    Not revealed on the provided video (but included on the purchased version) is also a cameo vocal/verse where Lopez talks about his style.

    It, is also gold illuminated in your hand at night.

    "With me you gotta a little bit of Sugar Ray Leonard and a little bit of Tommy Hearns, a little bit of evri-ting. I aint going nowhere. I won’t be doing no running, no duck n diving, no dancing, with me I stand up. We stand and trade till someone stops”.

    I love these characters and this character in boxing.

    Bottom line; no other sport has it.

    The character Hector displays both verbally and in the fight is tremendous.

    I doubt anyone will find these types of challenges at just 10 professional fights, on 3G’s record. Lopez was a tough hombre and a virtual wrecking machine in the ring.

    Additionally, you won't find any amateur videos of 3G displaying more skill than the video Skibbz posted either.

    Happy to be proved wrong, so bring it on anyone!!!!



    Last edited by stormcentre; 07-23-2014 at 07:01 PM.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    I watched all of the videos and read all of the comments regarding this topic....

    Its an interesting argument but Personally I think that besides the ethnic similarities... ( both Tszyu and GGG, like Provodnikov and Shumenov have slightly Mongolian features,)......but that's where the similarities end.

    I read somewhere that Tszyu's dad introduced him to boxing because he was hyperactive as a child.
    His hyperactivity is also evident in his fighting style ....and style is something Tszyu had no shortage of.

    Fighting out of a crouch ...hands low while darting in and out in addition to feignting regularly to set up his power shots .. Tszyu could put on a spectacular show against some opponents.

    Its a shame he never fought Del la Hoya, Mayweather, or Mosely.....Then we could have better gaged where he stood amongst the other elite fighters.

    Its not totally his fault because Oscar and Shane became full welterweights before Tszyu was ready to accept or offer a challenge and Arum blocked Mayweathers challenge by proclaiming that Mayweather couldnt draw flies...was unknown....didnt bring enough to the table ...yada yada yada.

    But you have to give Tszyu credit for beating the best of the rest. He was stellar against lesser ( but still creditable) foes like Zab Judah, Sharmba Mitchell, and Ben Tackle. ...and Tszyu also took on a lot of old former Champions like a 38 year old Chavez... a faded Juan Laporte, a used up Roger Mayweather and Livingstone Bramble.

    And its important to note that after 2001, Tszyu only fought once a year in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 when his management made the fateful decision to turn down Mayweather to accept the less difficult but more lucrative challenge of Ricky Hatton instead. And we know how that ended.

    We can forgive Kostya Tszyu because after roughly 12 years in the game he was finished for all intents and purposes.

    Its important to note that Pac and Floyd are nearing 20 years in the sport with Wlad K not too far behind.

    I watched the amateur vid between Tszyu and Forrest. He looked good... But i would recommend watching Tszyu's 1-4 loss against a Cuban named Juan Hernandez to really get a fix on his deficiencies.

    I also watched his fight with a so-called "life taker" named Hector Lopez.... I had to look up who Hector was since he didnt leave that large of an historical footprint.

    Apparently Hector was a blown up bantamweight with decent amateur credentials who had the distinction of losing to Sammy Fuentes and Randal Bailey.... To place this in context please note that Tszyu KO'd Fuentes in one round.

    I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart.
    Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School.

    In contrast GGG took Cubans to school in an amateur career that spanned approximately 350 fights.

    As Mortcola stated earlier GGG has a more fluid two fisted offence where Tszyu frequently found himself in wild desperate exchanges against fighters like Mitchell ( the first fight) Phillips and Judah.

    GGG is far more efficient the way he calmly walks down his opponents. Using a varied attack while simultaneously remaining elusive and defensively sound.
    Holding your hands up and tucking the chin is better than playing russian-roulette with your reflexes.

    GGG eventually paralyses the opposition. Its like taking all the opponents pawns, knights and bishops before making the final assault on the king.

    GGG's dominance is so complete his opponents stop fighting back and are stuck in full reverse before the end comes.

    Although GGG's story has barely begun to be written .... In a years time there won't be any more comparisons between him and KT....

    By the time he's done at middleweight the discussion will revolve around "Who would win? Hagler or GGG?"
    Last edited by brownsugar; 07-24-2014 at 01:29 AM.

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Did I or did I not read on these very pages of TSS that Stormcentre and Kostya Tszyu are one and the same? I am pretty sure the Shadow was a part of the discussion that night. Am I right or am I remembering this wrong?

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    Re: The Similarities Between Golovkin-Geale and Tszyu-Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart.
    Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School.

    In contrast GGG took Cubans to school in an amateur career that spanned approximately 350 fights.

    As Mortcola stated earlier GGG has a more fluid two fisted offence where Tszyu frequently found himself in wild desperate exchanges against fighters like Mitchell ( the first fight) Phillips and Judah.
    It could depend on which cubans you're meeting. Make no mistake; Tszyu was an awesome amateur in a time were amateur boxing was still a popular TV-sport with high ratings (at least in Europe), a truly spectacular fighter with a mongoose-style of fighting in that he liked to come in close and avoided being hit by way of movement more often than given credit for. Once again, he was a sensational fighting machine with an extreme twist of his foot/ankle as he punched, in order to generate devastating power.

    Both Mitchell and Judah were flamboyant fighters of a kind that GGG in my opinion has yet to face. Tszyu broke them down, systematically and calm, in impressive fashion.

    Besides hailing from the eastern parts of the hemisphere, both stalking with patient pressure and banging hard and with a similar modus operandi, there are differences between Tszyu and Golovkin in style and attributes.

    Anyway, and overall, I think Tszyu wrapped up his career with a sense that he could've achieved even more - at least if it hadn't been for the injuries as well as what seemed to be, during the last years, a lack of motivation.

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