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Thread: You all need to see this...

  1. #31
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    I see that people on here are accusing everyone but one name that is absent is the Mayweather name.

    Boxing writer Thomas Hauser broke a story years ago that Floyd failed 3 drug tests but got waivers. It would be interesting to dig up that article.

    Again is Floyd on TRT? Is Floyd tested randomly during the year of just in camp when he can control it?

  2. #32
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    This is in German but I still think this is an interesting read. Google will guide you.

    http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/a-571031.html

    There's a documentary on YouTube where our friend injects himself with EPO to demonstrate. It's not subtitled though -- Germans love to dbu, it's so annoying lol -- so it's hard to hear him. Bet the visual in itself is powerful.

    What's crazy is the stuff can be bought over-the-counter! He says it should be legalized. Now change of heart? Really? OK.

    That said, I'm sure some guys do use S&C guys' methods to improve their training naturally.

    What do you guys think of what he says in the article?

  3. #33
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by deepwater2 View Post
    I see that people on here are accusing everyone but one name that is absent is the Mayweather name.

    Boxing writer Thomas Hauser broke a story years ago that Floyd failed 3 drug tests but got waivers. It would be interesting to dig up that article.

    Again is Floyd on TRT? Is Floyd tested randomly during the year of just in camp when he can control it?
    The interesting thing about him is that his athletic performance, output, punching power -- things that are aided by performance-enhancing agents -- have been in a noticeable, if not steep decline as he moved up in weight and aged.

    Nowadays, he essentially beats guys by limiting their punch outputs while hitting them once in a while. Remember, he had an extraordinary KO rate at super feather. Once he got to welterweight fighting guys significantly bigger than him, he wasn't stopping anyone anymore.

    Then there's the work rate. He stopped throwing combinations, electing to only do 1-2s for the most part. He's very economical. So in that sense, there aren't really any red flags; he beats guys in a similar to Bernard Hopkins by lulling them to sleep.

    He even looks older these days, like he suddenly aged a few years since getting out of jail. Look at his face when he fought Cotto and now.

    As far as Xylocaine goes, that's not illegal. Muhammad Ali used to get his hands shot full of numbing stuff.

    Now, if he suddenly were to blast guys out starting next year, I'd be extremely suspicious of him, too. But there has been no sudden fluctuation either way in performance; it's just been a consistent erosion that he makes up for with experienceplus his ATG hand-eye coordination, timing, anticipation and in-ring IQ. (No drugs exist for that; only experience and teaching.)

    Then you look at a guy like Andre Berto fighting at a certain level, gets popped and then loses to everything in sight, including a completely overmatched (by "normal" Berto standards) Jesus Soto-Karass. It's not an accident.

    While nothing in his performance stands out, there is one thing that puzzles me about Mayweather however: his ability to do 4-a-days, especially as frail as he is. That's abnormal. While he's raised with that military-like regimen, it is still pretty hefty at age 37.

    A guy like him would/could benefit tremendously from recovery drugs, like cortisone, the stuff Conte was feeding Tim Montgomery (insulin) and that IGF-1 stuff.

    By comparison, most guys, from what I hear, do two-a-days.

    A question for Radam: how does one do four sessions a day?!

  4. #34
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by deepwater2 View Post
    I see that people on here are accusing everyone but one name that is absent is the Mayweather name.

    Boxing writer Thomas Hauser broke a story years ago that Floyd failed 3 drug tests but got waivers. It would be interesting to dig up that article.

    Again is Floyd on TRT? Is Floyd tested randomly during the year of just in camp when he can control it?
    As I've said ur quadrillion times, they are all on roids and PEDs. It just depends on the degree and legality. It's pure CRAZY to think that none of them are not. And it is crazy to think that a bringing-in-BIG-MOOLAH-to-the-economy draw like Money May would not be forgiven for a few hiccups and beating his babies mommas' @$$e$. [Probably a clear sign of roid rage. So they put him in a timeout cage.]

    True DAT! True DAT! Money May -- among others -- have failed tests. But, of course, Money got waivers. Nobody should expect anything LESS -- ESPECIALLY in Sin City. You have to have PITY! The ratio was even moved up to protect Mayweather Claus and his reindeers -- I mean stable of fighters who fail regularly. But are given a slap on the wrist. What will red-nose Rudolph -- I mean crack-taking Uncle Roger -- do if the powers that be become seriously righteous. Hehehe! He won't have anybody to do the mitts with.

    Nobody and dey neighbor are coming clean and cracking down on roids and PEDs. Entrepreneurs, hotels, casinos, cons, crooks, the corrupted po-po, gettin' paid-off doctors, gamblers, pimps and hos gotta get PAID.

    Ev'ybodee and dey momma need to chillax. On dat syet, these muthasuckas don't even pay tax. And that is FATE! Anything else is too late. Holla!
    Last edited by Radam G; 07-22-2014 at 02:33 PM.

  5. #35

    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    The interesting thing about him is that his athletic performance, output, punching power -- things that are aided by performance-enhancing agents -- have been in a noticeable, if not steep decline as he moved up in weight and aged.

    Nowadays, he essentially beats guys by limiting their punch outputs while hitting them once in a while. Remember, he had an extraordinary KO rate at super feather. Once he got to welterweight fighting guys significantly bigger than him, he wasn't stopping anyone anymore.


    Then there's the work rate. He stopped throwing combinations, electing to only do 1-2s for the most part. He's very economical. So in that sense, there aren't really any red flags; he beats guys in a similar to Bernard Hopkins by lulling them to sleep.

    He even looks older these days, like he suddenly aged a few years since getting out of jail. Look at his face when he fought Cotto and now.

    As far as Xylocaine goes, that's not illegal. Muhammad Ali used to get his hands shot full of numbing stuff.

    Now, if he suddenly were to blast guys out starting next year, I'd be extremely suspicious of him, too. But there has been no sudden fluctuation either way in performance; it's just been a consistent erosion that he makes up for with experienceplus his ATG hand-eye coordination, timing, anticipation and in-ring IQ. (No drugs exist for that; only experience and teaching.)

    Then you look at a guy like Andre Berto fighting at a certain level, gets popped and then loses to everything in sight, including a completely overmatched (by "normal" Berto standards) Jesus Soto-Karass. It's not an accident.

    While nothing in his performance stands out, there is one thing that puzzles me about Mayweather however: his ability to do 4-a-days, especially as frail as he is. That's abnormal. While he's raised with that military-like regimen, it is still pretty hefty at age 37.

    A guy like him would/could benefit tremendously from recovery drugs, like cortisone, the stuff Conte was feeding Tim Montgomery (insulin) and that IGF-1 stuff.

    By comparison, most guys, from what I hear, do two-a-days.

    A question for Radam: how does one do four sessions a day?!

    I think what you say there is why there really is no suspicion of Mayweather. I noticed that when he fought the Ghost that he was noticeably slower and not quite as crisp. The thing is though that when Floyd slows down, he is declining from a talent and skill level so far above everyone else's, that you almost miss it.

    As far as him knocking out fighters earlier in his career, Floyd contrary to popular belief use to beat people to a pulp. However, he realized that to KO people he had to sit down and leave himself open to be countered. His style switched to a more protective style which has preserved him through the years. Up until the Maidana fight, you can make the argument that Floyd had been in only one real high pressure scrap in his entire career against Castillo. Cotto and De La Hoya were tough fights but neither would I classify as brawls that really take something out of guys.

    I think people also miss out on the fact that being a KO artist takes something out of the guy throwing the bombs too. The amount of torque put on the shoulders, hips, calves, and feet to throw cinder block like punches is tremendous. You often hear of the hard hitting guys needing surgeries on their shoulders and knees late in their career because they have put so much pressure on them for so many years. Floyd has avoided that path as well.

  6. #36
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post

    A question for Radam: how does one do four sessions a day?!
    "Ain't nuffin' to it. But to do it. Mind over matter! Fo'get da chit chatter!"

    He does it that way. The mental controls the physical. Always have. Always will. Boksing is a mental game.

    Money May is just doing old skool. Nothing special. Just KI$$ -- keeping it $imply $weet or keep in $hape, $on! Holla!

  7. #37
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post

    A guy like him would/could benefit tremendously from recovery drugs, like cortisone, the stuff Conte was feeding Tim Montgomery (insulin) and that IGF-1 stuff.

    Is cortisone banned? If it is, I find that ridiculous. You can inject cortisone all day, but it won't make you a better athelete. You'll just end up with track marks.

    If cortisone is a PED then so are antibiotics, becuase they help an athelete to recover from the flu quicker.

  8. #38
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    The only way to kick PEDs out of the sport is for fighter's to be contained and train under complete scrutiny. Otherwise there will always be a way for PEDs to find their way into the fighter's system. Some form of PED or other has been in use since the beginning of the sport.

    There are new methods coming into science which will be able to find even the smallest trace of any substance you want in the system, but unfortunately it's not commercially viable at this stage and not being used.

    But remember, money talks and it doesn't sing or dance. If there are benefits, then risks will be minimised and fighter's will continue to use anything to get a leg up on their opponent. It isn't even always the fighter, sometimes their manager, promoter or a friend will give them something to aid their nutrition... to sort out their sores and help mend their muscles... The sport is cleaning up and becoming tighter but the gaping holes are still there and not patched up... And it's not going to change for a long time.

  9. #39
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Doctor View Post
    I think what you say there is why there really is no suspicion of Mayweather. I noticed that when he fought the Ghost that he was noticeably slower and not quite as crisp. The thing is though that when Floyd slows down, he is declining from a talent and skill level so far above everyone else's, that you almost miss it.

    As far as him knocking out fighters earlier in his career, Floyd contrary to popular belief use to beat people to a pulp. However, he realized that to KO people he had to sit down and leave himself open to be countered. His style switched to a more protective style which has preserved him through the years. Up until the Maidana fight, you can make the argument that Floyd had been in only one real high pressure scrap in his entire career against Castillo. Cotto and De La Hoya were tough fights but neither would I classify as brawls that really take something out of guys.

    I think people also miss out on the fact that being a KO artist takes something out of the guy throwing the bombs too. The amount of torque put on the shoulders, hips, calves, and feet to throw cinder block like punches is tremendous. You often hear of the hard hitting guys needing surgeries on their shoulders and knees late in their career because they have put so much pressure on them for so many years. Floyd has avoided that path as well.
    Very, very good points. Of all accounts, they're meticulous about extending his career as much as possible. I think the same goes for B-Hop, he doesn't seem to be torquing with the same vigor. Wanna protect those joints.

    Great, astute points all around! As usual.

    Did any of you guys get a chance to read the German article?? If not, here are some out takes. Please share your thoughts:

    "I read anything I could find about medicine, spoke with other athletes, and soon people were saying: Angel knows how it's done. He knows how to pass the tests. The first athletes began to ask me for advice. That's how it started, and at some point the trainer Trevor Graham asked me if I could help him. I explained to him how epo works, and I was in business."

    "My father is a chemistry professor. I love chemistry, and I was an athlete. My role was an obsession. For example, I learned everything about testosterone: that there is a type of testosterone with a high half-life and another that works very quickly. I learned that you can rub it in, take it orally, inject it. It became a kick: I was allowed to work with the best of the best, and I made them even better."

    "You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. That's the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast – they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug "Epo Boost." I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten."

    "There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don't excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. I've created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers."

    "I had one substance called actovison that increased blood circulation – not detectable. That was good from a health standpoint and even better from a competitive standpoint. Then we had the growth factors IGF-1 and IGF-2. And epo. Epo increases the number of red blood cells and thus the transportation of oxygen, which is the key for every athlete: the athlete wants to recover quickly, keep the load at a constantly high level and achieve a constant performance."

    "We have used creams that leave no trace and give the athlete a steadily higher testosterone levels."

    "Yes, the only difference is the quality of the doping. Athletes with little money use simple steroids and hope they don't get tested. The stars earn 50,000 dollars a month, not including starting bonuses and shoe sponsorship contracts. The very best invest 100,000 dollars – I'll then build you a designer drug that can't be detected."

    "Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain I change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers."

    "What's happening now is laughable. It's a token. They should save their money – or give it to me. I'll give it to the orphans of Mexico! There will be doping for as long as there is commercial sports, performance-related shoe contracts and television."

    "Peak performances without doping are a fairytale, my friend."

    "I believe we should authorize the use of epo, IGF and testosterone, as well as adrenaline and epitestosterone – substances that the body produces itself. Simply for pragmatic reasons, because it is impossible to detect them, and also because of the fairness aspect."

    "Track and field, swimming, cross-country skiing and cycling can no longer be saved. Golf? Not clean either. Soccer? Soccer players come to me and say they have to be able to run up and down the touchline without becoming tired, and they have to play every three days. Basketball players take fat burners – amphetamines, ephedrin. Baseball? Haha. Steroids in pre-season, amphetamines during the games. Even archers take downers so that their arm remains steady. Everyone dopes."
    Last edited by The Shadow; 07-22-2014 at 06:54 PM.

  10. #40
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    Re: You all need to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by redox View Post
    Is cortisone banned? If it is, I find that ridiculous. You can inject cortisone all day, but it won't make you a better athelete. You'll just end up with track marks.

    If cortisone is a PED then so are antibiotics, becuase they help an athelete to recover from the flu quicker.
    Don't know if it is, I just know it's part of a doping cocktail that supposedly allows you to recuperate faster.

    Here's some information how Floyd Landis used it before winning the a Tour De France in '06. http://landiscase.wikispaces.com/Cortisone

    Our man Lance allegedly tested positive for it in '99 but it was swept under the rug, much like they said they did with a Carl Lewis test in '88 or around that time.

    And welcome to the discussion! Are you an athlete also?

    EDIT: here's some of the swiping-under-the-rug stuff Radam talks about: http://youtu.be/F04etMA6bgk
    Last edited by The Shadow; 07-22-2014 at 07:03 PM.

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