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Thread: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

  1. #21
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    Thank you for lending you expertise on the subject Commish.
    My list is merely a set of suggestions in response to the topic.

    I don't know the exact limitations set by the various commissions but I think boxing as a whole would benefit from one uniform code.

    I mention Bhop as an example because he is the most well known "Old guy" fighting in the sport today.
    Age limitations as they apply to the eligibility of fighters should be enforced in my opinion because of the natural decline of the human body. Most champions don't make it anywhere close to 50 and they eventually quit on their own.
    But some career pugs continue to fight irregardless of their age because its all they know.. These men will lie about their age, forge documents, and subject themselves to severe risk if allowed to continue.

    As with the health management industry...appeals should be made available for exceptional cases.

    Overall my list is not set in stone... Its just a short list of suggested criteria..off the top of my head.. Its the type of list (for the purpose of discussion)and is meant to be picked apart.

    I appreciate your input.

    There have been at least 4 articles reporting ring deaths in the last 18 months on the TSS alone.
    Statistically speaking this maybe a mere drop in the bucket but any death brings unwanted attention to the sport.

    Age limits are not always discriminatory. There are age limitions for how old you can be to sign up for the military, police and fire departments, and even the electricians union.

    You are correct about the efficacy about the mental health system.
    Several members of my extended family suffer from mental illness and I'm very familiar with the inadequacies of the system. There are gaps and loopholes that hinder 100% effectiveness but psychiatric observation and improvements in mental illness detection continues to make incremental progress. I believe they should continue to try.

    Overall I think the governance of boxing is improving. But there is still a long way to go.
    There is no age limitation for pro boxing. But there is for the amateurs. And it was just moved up from 35 to 40 years old in late 2012. And with the on-rush of the AIBA getting ready to become the dominant sanctioning corrupted force of world pugilism, the pugvine outta its headquarters in Taiwan is aiming at shutting down pro pugs at age 55. Holla!

  2. #22
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Interesting facts RG... 55 seems more than fair. Although the limit is set so high nobody's going to get that far at the top level...at least for a while. But at least there is one.

  3. #23
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Maybe not. But both "Duperman" Roy Jones Jr and James "No Lights" Toney are dancing on the same card this coming Saturday.

    Toney is fighting a 6-foot-10, 300-pound slob. Holla!

  4. #24
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Talk of freak shows!

    -Randy G/

  5. #25

    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Yes it's a bit of a shame to see such an old skool legend like Toney in these settings, fumbling and looking the way he does.

    Same for RJJ, as much as I love and respect the guy, both in/out of the ring; his second fight (if it can be called that with such a low punch output on his behalf) with B-Hop was revealing and eyebrow raising.

    Anyway, trying to stay positive here . . . .

    As far as forced retirement goes - if it were actually passed - there are quite a few cognitive and neurological tests these days that are very accurate in testing hand/eye co-ordination, reflexes, and the ability for people to think, react and respond.

    These would be useful to such an idea (forced retirement).

    In the very least these test would allow boxers considering postponing their retirement to understand how much their abilities in these areas have improved and/or slipped from what they may have otherwise been.

    From there an informed decision can be made of the kind that is not possible today and one that is driven by safety and not dollars.

    I find it remarkable that one can get insurance for driving a race car, but the same (or similarly applicable and meaningful) policies are not quite so easily sourced; despite how popular boxing is.

    Anyway to continue with this or a similar line of discussion and also wrap it into another subject I wrote a length piece on recently . . . .

    http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...-USADA-Testing

    And to also resurrect another interesting subject with it, or perhaps it's better referred to as a medical/legal loophole; related to testosterone pellets or so called testosterone replacement therapy (TRT); as I understand it recently the Association Of Ringside Physicians (ARP) requested TRT in boxing to be stopped.

    Long time posters will know that previously (using the Lamont Peterson and Amir Kahn fight as an example) I expressed concerns about the so called use of TRT, such as (but not limited to) here . . . .

    http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ed=1#post43040

    And I note that recently the ARP, at a fighter safety meeting in the USA where apparently B-Hop and Senator McCain rubbed palms and shoulders (imagine giving Hopkins the microphone in that setting?), the practice of prescribing TRT was basically referred to as having questionable therapeutic merit and in many cases nothing more than a means to use performance enhancing drugs in a medically approved way.

    I have always thought this - just as much as I found it suspicious the amount of male athletes (if ever there was a pool of males that have a naturally normal or high level of testosterone then this is it) that supposedly required TRT, after it became known that there were performance benefits associated with testosterone replacement and/or elevated levels of testosterone.

    Typically the (TRT) athletes in question go to certain medical professionals and claim they have a condition that requires their hormone levels to be increased.

    The condition is technically or medically referred to as hypogonadism.

    From there the athletes in question enter into a "TRT program" and as such they can then elevate their hormone levels sky high without fear of any repercussion (that matters).

    As mentioned above, I have always been skeptical about the use of TRT, particularly in boxing and as such am not disappointed to see inroads being made to the abuse of this therapy finally being stopped, or at least seen for what it really is.

    In support of this view it was refreshing to see that, of all the medical professionals (confidentially) surveyed by ARP it was almost unanimous that the view on TRT in combat sport was that genuine cases requiring TRT were almost non-existent.

    Other good news that came out of the ARP get together was that a brain study was being undertaken in a Cleveland Brain Health Centre to allow a better understanding of what happens to those in combat sport’s brains after they have competed in the sport for a given period of time.

    To the best of my understanding there are quite a few (more than 200 combined) boxers, MMA fighters and perhaps a few Judo jokers thrown in (before anyone gets upset about that Judo smirk. . . my Uncle used to teach Judo) also; that are allegedly participating in the scientific study.

    Personally, I think the scientific study is a good idea.

    As then fighters, managers and promoters will all know when the skills that they make their livings from are at a stage where health should be considered before wealth - or at least as another form of it.

    So what does this all mean about and/or to forced retirement.

    Well, from the above scientific study - regardless of whether or not there is ever an institution and/or mechanism whereby fighters are forcibly retired - it should be hopefully easier for any fighter to understand when they're approaching a situation where the risks both are and are not worth the rewards.

  6. #26
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by stormcentre View Post
    To the best of my understanding there are quite a few (more than 200 combined) boxers, MMA fighters and perhaps a few Judo jokers thrown in (before anyone gets upset about that Judo smirk. . . my Uncle used to teach Judo) also; that are allegedly participating in the scientific study.
    As always, interesting and educated points.

    Short comment on judo: it was my first combat sport, and the one that until this day has given me the worst blow to the head ever. I was thrown to the ground, failed to time the landing and came down head first. Man, I still remember the echoing inside my head. Anyways, judo is the perfect first sport for a fighter-to-be; builds strength, stamina, suppleness and, most of all, balance.

    Slightly touching on the subject of this thread: whereas an early start in combat sports may give bigger, later brain injuries - due to the young brains fragility - it may also help avoid it, due to a mind and body better prepared for the complexities and demands of the sport. Too many fighters start too late, and are therefor in many ways more vulnerable.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    An addendum to this interesting debate.

    While it's inevitable that some currently active boxers will develop pugilistic dementia, the problem is not nearly as widespread as it was way back when.

    Here's a quote from Nat Fleischer that appeared in the October, 1924 issue of The Ring:

    "Terrific beatings taken on the head reduced some of the old boxers to a state of utter simplicity .....They hover around the offices of promoters like wraiths. They seek matches. They bring in their boxing paraphernalia and announce that they are 'ready to go.' When boxing advances where it ought to be it will take care of these unfortunates."

    Sad. Very sad.

  8. #28
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ArneK. View Post
    An addendum to this interesting debate.

    While it's inevitable that some currently active boxers will develop pugilistic dementia, the problem is not nearly as widespread as it was way back when.

    Here's a quote from Nat Fleischer that appeared in the October, 1924 issue of The Ring:

    "Terrific beatings taken on the head reduced some of the old boxers to a state of utter simplicity .....They hover around the offices of promoters like wraiths. They seek matches. They bring in their boxing paraphernalia and announce that they are 'ready to go.' When boxing advances where it ought to be it will take care of these unfortunates."

    Sad. Very sad.
    Even the great Sugar Ray Robinson fell victim to senility in his early 60's.
    Whether it was Alzheimer's, dementia, or senility the documentary didnt say..
    But all of his friends and family members acknowledged that most of the time Robinson didn't know who they were... His inner circle said every once in a blue moon he would have a brief period of recognition and clarity... He died within 6 months of developing the symptoms.. So his period of suffering was relatively brief.

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