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Thread: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

  1. #11
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    I think certain factors should be examined.

    1. Age, there should be a cut off for how long a fighter can continue to fight.
    Freaks of nature like Bhop should have to apply for an exception.

    2. A fighters career should have an expiration date. A Fighter should only be able to fight for a set
    amount of years. If the limit is twenty years then a fighter who started at the age of 15 like
    Canelo would have to retire at age 35.

    3. Medical testing. A fighter should be able to pass a battery of tests and the testing should be
    Required annually.

    4. A limit should be set for the amount of times a fighter can be knocked out.
    Obviously if a fighter is being KO'd frequently, he doesnt have the ability to be competetive in
    In the sport.

    5. Consecutive loses. If a fighter has over a certain amount of consecutive losses, he should be
    banned from the sport. Lets get rid of the degenerates who only fight for booze and drug money
    but have no desire to be competitive.

    6. Mental competency. A fighter should be tested for mental competency every so many
    many years to insure mental health.

    These are just a few examples of what could be used as a criteria for forced retirement.
    Following a set uniform criteria as outlined above could save lives and prevent the anti boxing advocates from gaining traction.

    There should also be an appeal process set in place for exceptional cases. The appeal should only grant the boxer the authorization to box for an additional year at a time to prevent abuse of the priviledge.

    The time is ripe for the boxing commissions to sieze the opportunity to protect its participants.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Now were talking about forcing boxers to retire. Why not laws in place to allow them to get their earned pay? Boxers are arguably the hardest working of all athletes and the ones at most risk. Somehow they seem to be some of the worst paid in all professional sports. Fighting and putting their lives on the line for peanuts.

    Why not some laws on keeping the blood suckers and grease lined pockets of the non combatants in the sport keeping less and more money going to the ones who put their balls to the wall and their lives on the line?

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    I think certain factors should be examined.

    1. Age, there should be a cut off for how long a fighter can continue to fight.
    Freaks of nature like Bhop should have to apply for an exception.

    2. A fighters career should have an expiration date. A Fighter should only be able to fight for a set
    amount of years. If the limit is twenty years then a fighter who started at the age of 15 like
    Canelo would have to retire at age 35.

    3. Medical testing. A fighter should be able to pass a battery of tests and the testing should be
    Required annually.

    4. A limit should be set for the amount of times a fighter can be knocked out.
    Obviously if a fighter is being KO'd frequently, he doesnt have the ability to be competetive in
    In the sport.

    5. Consecutive loses. If a fighter has over a certain amount of consecutive losses, he should be
    banned from the sport. Lets get rid of the degenerates who only fight for booze and drug money
    but have no desire to be competitive.

    6. Mental competency. A fighter should be tested for mental competency every so many
    many years to insure mental health.

    These are just a few examples of what could be used as a criteria for forced retirement.
    Following a set uniform criteria as outlined above could save lives and prevent the anti boxing advocates from gaining traction.

    There should also be an appeal process set in place for exceptional cases. The appeal should only grant the boxer the authorization to box for an additional year at a time to prevent abuse of the priviledge.

    The time is ripe for the boxing commissions to sieze the opportunity to protect its participants.
    Nice list, Brownsugar, but you just sat the fan in me down and brought out the Commissioner. The Commish has some problems with this list, starting with #1:

    4. & 5. Here, you say there should be requirements for amounts of

    1. Here, you say age. You say there should be a cut-off. That is plain, in-your-face age discrimination. No court would allow that to stand up ("Your honor, this commission is denying (name) a license because he is 43.). The magistrate will tell you to go back to your office and issue a license. As far as B-Hop filing for an extension, you can't single out one guy. If B-Hop can file, so can anybody else. The age cut-off just won't work.

    2. Expiration Date. Are you kidding? Are these fighters or containers of milk? If there was expiration dates on careers--limits of 20 years, as you pointed out, George Foreman would have never been able to launch the greatest comeback in the history of the sport. Roberto Duran would have been out by 1987. From the day a fighter turns pro, the clock is running on how many years his particular body can take the rigors of training and fighting. Expiration dates are a novel idea, but would never work in reality.

    3. Here, you suggested fighters go through medical testing. They already do. Head tests (MRI's & EEG's). Heart tests (EKG's). Eye exams. In NY, we went even further. Balance tests. Reasoning questions. There are a few states with small commissions run by a receptionist which do little in the way of physical exams other than a stethoscope on the chest, but all the larger boxing states (Nevada, New York, New Jersey, California, Florida, Connecticut) require a battery of exams.

    4. & 5. Here, you want to set guidelines on retirement for fighters who have been stopped a certain number of times or consecutively and who have a certain amount of consecutive losses. Those rules are already in place in every commission I know of. It just boggles my mind, though, how the British Boxing Board of Control allows so many fighters (see Kristian Laight & Matt Seawright, among others) to keep fighting. These guys have each lost well over 100 fights apiece. Many times, it's not how many times a man was stopped or lost which hurts him. It's how many punches he took. When Muhammad Ali began his physical decline, he was not being stopped over and over, nor was he on a losing streak. Yet, many in the business knew he was slipping badly and refused to say anything. Something SHOULD have been said. Something SHOULD have been done! Boxing erred by its silence.

    6. Here, you say fighters should be tested for mental competency. Many states do that. Many fighters pass who are out and out wacko nut jobs. Ike Ibeabuchi.. James Butler. This kind of testing simply doesn't work.

    Boxing commissions, the agencies which regulate the sport, need people in charge who know the sport, who understand the sport, who feel the sport and who live the sport. These agencies give licenses, deny licenses and revoke licenses. It's their call who gets a license, who doesn't get one and who loses one.

    A few years ago, the New York State Athletic Commission, then under the leadership of Ron Scott Stevens, made the right move by telling Evander Holyfield he should not apply for a license in New York any longer, because he would be denied. It was the right move by Stevens, but handled very wrong. The NYSAC leaked their news to the media, which wrote that Holyfield was being banned in New York. Holyfield didn't find out from Stevens. He found out from a friend who had just read it in the paper. It was a grandstand move by Stevens and his agency. He was a good commissioner who was able to straighten out the mess made by then-NY Gov. George "Wacky" Pataki in the mid-90's when he filled the NYSAC with political hacks, But that move by Stevens against Holyfield was unnecessary. He should have kept the media out of it and called Holyfield one-on-one to inform him. Instead, he publically embarrassed this Hall-of-Famer with an ill-advised move.

    Without calling in the media so they can get their names in the papers, boxing commissions all over the world should start doing the same thing if they feel--with good reason, a fighter has become his own worst enemy.

    -Randy G.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Great post commissioner.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Wow! I was trying to ease on down the road. It is hyperjive that a large percentage of pugs stay with the game too long because they are dumb in the membrane and boxing is all they have ever known. It is just the opposite. Approximately 95 percent of ev'ybodee and dey momma who turn pro have less than seven pro fights and not more than a two-year career.

    Out of the five percent who stays with the game, only .5 of that 5 percent succeed in getting to the big time. And of those who stay "too long" and suffer this stereotypical damage and end up BROKE, it is about 11.8 percent of that .5 percent.

    Conclusion is: Boxing is the safest-contact sport because the least of amount of participants are going to ever get to first base and make more than $5,600 in two years from putting on gloves and getting the hebejeebeez knocked outta d£y [$¡¢] craniums. Matter of fact, they have more hand damages than ever in the head on the shoulders or in the trunks. Hehehe!

    WTF! Boxing is a poverty J-O-B for 99.5 of the combatants. And the percentage of the successful ones leave the games healthy and live longer or as long as the generation population who never participate in even a game of tag.

    Oh my fudging goodness! People ought to check before they keyboard peck, because with the reality of the actuality you end up having a wreck. Hehehe!

    You have more people who never box getting brain damage from processed food and bad water than pugs are allegedly getting from staying in the mix and the fix too long.

    Pundits and posers are suffering from inattention blindness. So dey [$¡¢] blind arses come after our neck of the woods. They don't care about us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OawiTae0bA. Holla!
    Last edited by Radam G; 07-20-2014 at 08:54 AM.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    From everything that I've read, The Commish hit the nail on the head when he wrote that it's not how many times a fighter was stopped, but how many punches he took. This suggests that the age of a boxer is less relevant than the number of rounds he has fought. Our brain is the most intricate computer ever "invented," but unfortunately it's encased in a very flimsy shell.

    An old friend from New Orleans, the late Hap Glaudi, once sent me a tape of an interview he did on the local TV newscast with former light middleweight champion Ralph Dupas. It was incredibly sad. Dupas' speech was so slurred that his brother had to serve as the translator. It was akin to Hap interviewing a man who spoke a foreign language.

    Ralph Dupas was a "cutie." He scored only 19 knockouts in 135 fights. But he fought 1135 rounds and obviously ate a lot of jabs. Those ping-ping-pings added up and were more damaging (I surmise) than the hard wallops he took on the jaw.

    Of course, what happened to Dupas wasn't inevitable. Some ex-boxers are bionic.

    Jake LaMotta turned 93 this month. A few years ago, he appeared in an off-Broadway show. The show was horrible, but the fact that LaMotta was able to deliver his monologues in a voice that wasn't too halting is amazing. He fought in a lot of wars in a career that consumed 869 rounds.

    Last I heard, LaMotta still smoked cigarettes. I'm guessing he's been smoking for about 75 years. Every morning he wakes up and still has a pulse is a miracle.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ArneK. View Post
    From everything that I've read, The Commish hit the nail on the head when he wrote that it's not how many times a fighter was stopped, but how many punches he took. This suggests that the age of a boxer is less relevant than the number of rounds he has fought. Our brain is the most intricate computer ever "invented," but unfortunately it's encased in a very flimsy shell.

    An old friend from New Orleans, the late Hap Glaudi, once sent me a tape of an interview he did on the local TV newscast with former light middleweight champion Ralph Dupas. It was incredibly sad. Dupas' speech was so slurred that his brother had to serve as the translator. It was akin to Hap interviewing a man who spoke a foreign language.

    Ralph Dupas was a "cutie." He scored only 19 knockouts in 135 fights. But he fought 1135 rounds and obviously ate a lot of jabs. Those ping-ping-pings added up and were more damaging (I surmise) than the hard wallops he took on the jaw.

    Of course, what happened to Dupas wasn't inevitable. Some ex-boxers are bionic.

    Jake LaMotta turned 93 this month. A few years ago, he appeared in an off-Broadway show. The show was horrible, but the fact that LaMotta was able to deliver his monologues in a voice that wasn't too halting is amazing. He fought in a lot of wars in a career that consumed 869 rounds.

    Last I heard, LaMotta still smoked cigarettes. I'm guessing he's been smoking for about 75 years. Every morning he wakes up and still has a pulse is a miracle.
    Ralph Dupas was a heavy drinker and diner. That alcohol and bad eating contributed to his sad demise. Holla at the old fighters who are living clean versus those whose are not. Nevertheless, you are right. Some ex pugs are just bionic. Holla!

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    How about former heavyweight contender George Chuvaqlo? He fought the likes of Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier and George Foreman. Yet, today, in his mid-70's, he sounds terrific.

    Some guys have bodies which can take the punishment. Some don't!

    Look at Riddick Bowe and listen to him. Different body, different machinery.

    Randall "Tex" Cobb. He still sounds the way he did 20 years ago.

    I can go on and on.

    -Randy G.

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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    How about former heavyweight contender George Chuvaqlo? He fought the likes of Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier and George Foreman. Yet, today, in his mid-70's, he sounds terrific.

    Some guys have bodies which can take the punishment. Some don't!

    Look at Riddick Bowe and listen to him. Different body, different machinery.

    Randall "Tex" Cobb. He still sounds the way he did 20 years ago.

    I can go on and on.

    -Randy G.
    Hehehehe! Don't go there, Commish! "Tex" Cobb has a speech impediment where you could never tell. Rev. ("Big") sounds the say way that he did 20 years ago.

    BTW, did you ever see Tex's son fight. A light wind would blow his big arse down. He did not take Poppa Tex's "Texas-Tough" toughness. Holla!

  10. #20
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    Re: When Should a Boxer be Forced to Retire - If Ever ??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    Nice list, Brownsugar, but you just sat the fan in me down and brought out the Commissioner. The Commish has some problems with this list, starting with #1:

    4. & 5. Here, you say there should be requirements for amounts of

    1. Here, you say age. You say there should be a cut-off. That is plain, in-your-face age discrimination. No court would allow that to stand up ("Your honor, this commission is denying (name) a license because he is 43.). The magistrate will tell you to go back to your office and issue a license. As far as B-Hop filing for an extension, you can't single out one guy. If B-Hop can file, so can anybody else. The age cut-off just won't work.

    2. Expiration Date. Are you kidding? Are these fighters or containers of milk? If there was expiration dates on careers--limits of 20 years, as you pointed out, George Foreman would have never been able to launch the greatest comeback in the history of the sport. Roberto Duran would have been out by 1987. From the day a fighter turns pro, the clock is running on how many years his particular body can take the rigors of training and fighting. Expiration dates are a novel idea, but would never work in reality.

    3. Here, you suggested fighters go through medical testing. They already do. Head tests (MRI's & EEG's). Heart tests (EKG's). Eye exams. In NY, we went even further. Balance tests. Reasoning questions. There are a few states with small commissions run by a receptionist which do little in the way of physical exams other than a stethoscope on the chest, but all the larger boxing states (Nevada, New York, New Jersey, California, Florida, Connecticut) require a battery of exams.

    4. & 5. Here, you want to set guidelines on retirement for fighters who have been stopped a certain number of times or consecutively and who have a certain amount of consecutive losses. Those rules are already in place in every commission I know of. It just boggles my mind, though, how the British Boxing Board of Control allows so many fighters (see Kristian Laight & Matt Seawright, among others) to keep fighting. These guys have each lost well over 100 fights apiece. Many times, it's not how many times a man was stopped or lost which hurts him. It's how many punches he took. When Muhammad Ali began his physical decline, he was not being stopped over and over, nor was he on a losing streak. Yet, many in the business knew he was slipping badly and refused to say anything. Something SHOULD have been said. Something SHOULD have been done! Boxing erred by its silence.

    6. Here, you say fighters should be tested for mental competency. Many states do that. Many fighters pass who are out and out wacko nut jobs. Ike Ibeabuchi.. James Butler. This kind of testing simply doesn't work.

    Boxing commissions, the agencies which regulate the sport, need people in charge who know the sport, who understand the sport, who feel the sport and who live the sport. These agencies give licenses, deny licenses and revoke licenses. It's their call who gets a license, who doesn't get one and who loses one.

    A few years ago, the New York State Athletic Commission, then under the leadership of Ron Scott Stevens, made the right move by telling Evander Holyfield he should not apply for a license in New York any longer, because he would be denied. It was the right move by Stevens, but handled very wrong. The NYSAC leaked their news to the media, which wrote that Holyfield was being banned in New York. Holyfield didn't find out from Stevens. He found out from a friend who had just read it in the paper. It was a grandstand move by Stevens and his agency. He was a good commissioner who was able to straighten out the mess made by then-NY Gov. George "Wacky" Pataki in the mid-90's when he filled the NYSAC with political hacks, But that move by Stevens against Holyfield was unnecessary. He should have kept the media out of it and called Holyfield one-on-one to inform him. Instead, he publically embarrassed this Hall-of-Famer with an ill-advised move.

    Without calling in the media so they can get their names in the papers, boxing commissions all over the world should start doing the same thing if they feel--with good reason, a fighter has become his own worst enemy.

    -Randy G.
    Thank you for lending you expertise on the subject Commish.
    My list is merely a set of suggestions in response to the topic.

    I don't know the exact limitations set by the various commissions but I think boxing as a whole would benefit from one uniform code.

    I mention Bhop as an example because he is the most well known "Old guy" fighting in the sport today.
    Age limitations as they apply to the eligibility of fighters should be enforced in my opinion because of the natural decline of the human body. Most champions don't make it anywhere close to 50 and they eventually quit on their own.
    But some career pugs continue to fight irregardless of their age because its all they know.. These men will lie about their age, forge documents, and subject themselves to severe risk if allowed to continue.

    As with the health management industry...appeals should be made available for exceptional cases.

    Overall my list is not set in stone... Its just a short list of suggested criteria..off the top of my head.. Its the type of list (for the purpose of discussion)and is meant to be picked apart.

    I appreciate your input.

    There have been at least 4 articles reporting ring deaths in the last 18 months on the TSS alone.
    Statistically speaking this maybe a mere drop in the bucket but any death brings unwanted attention to the sport.

    Age limits are not always discriminatory. There are age limitions for how old you can be to sign up for the military, police and fire departments, and even the electricians union.

    You are correct about the efficacy about the mental health system.
    Several members of my extended family suffer from mental illness and I'm very familiar with the inadequacies of the system. There are gaps and loopholes that hinder 100% effectiveness but psychiatric observation and improvements in mental illness detection continues to make incremental progress. I believe they should continue to try.

    Overall I think the governance of boxing is improving. But there is still a long way to go.

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