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Thread: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

  1. #1
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    A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    In between rounds 8 and 9 Ronnie Shields can be clearly heard telling Lara (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVELJAWc6k 50.18) “we don’t want any close rounds . . . the jab, one, two, it’s there all day”, as he explicitly appeals for Erislandy Lara to do more work.

    This, if ever there was, was a call to be more active otherwise suffer the possible consequences of a close fight combined with possible hometown scoring favoring the current champion.

    As it all took place Lara looked vaguely off into the distance and failed to acknowledge his trainer’s requests and/or instructions.

    To me, it was a clear sign that Lara was not comfortable with the kind of pressure Alvarez (or his Lara’s trainer’s instruction’s) brought and as such he didn’t want to both; fight any other way than he already was (where he could catch his breath when he wanted and appear in control) and/or engage Canelo in a way that he may otherwise had of if he was not so concerned about punch resistance and stamina.

    Then, after a not so crash hot round 9 for Lara where, in my opinion, he failed to really capitalize and meaningfully follow up on the few left crosses that landed cleanly on Alvarez because in my humble opinion Lara was thinking defence too much and running off sometimes almost before his offence has completed its natural course; during the break between rounds 9 and 10 Ronnie Shields again appeals to Lara to do more in the context that he just gave Alvaraez a 10-8 round.

    But, again Lara doesn’t change tactics or fight with a sense of urgency.

    And during that round Lara also sustained a deep cut under his left eye from one of Canelo’s punches (Alvarez sold the right cross and lunged in with a left uppercut lead, I think) that itself actually warranted the Doctor looking at Lara’s face and advising that it required monitoring.

    That decisive factor alone should have motivated Lara to listen up and step things up for the world title fight and American dream that his whole life had apparently been for.

    This is championship level fighting and he, uninvited and unannounced, called Alvarez out on the podium - we have all seen the footage and occasion that gave way to Lara V Alvarez.

    In round 9 Lara looked to escape from Saul so much that he slipped in one of the corners and the justifiably respected commentator Al Bernstein (giving Lara the benefit of the doubt) suggested it was due to water on the canvas.

    However, at point 55.00 of the above-mentioned video it can be reasonable clearly seen that Lara’s slip was more due to his escape velocity and balance than any additional deficiency of the coefficient of friction pertaining to the canvass.

    Coincidentally, at the 54.52 mark (overhead camera shot) it shows a dark spot on the canvas, but that was just the shadow of the corner ring apron, and most likely the origin of any concerns about any fluid on the canvass that wasn’t red.

    Throughout the fight Canelo allowed himself to become frustrated and therefore was not loose and relaxed - it matters when you're trying to time someone, even if they're not a runner.

    But when they're a runner, as Lara was, it’s probably three times as hard.

    Once it was clear that Alvarez was not overly concerned with eating a few of Erislandy’s best straight lefts to get into position, Lara seemed like he wasn’t sure what else he could do (Shields certainly didn’t give him any brilliant tactical advice, not that Shields is himself incapable of it).

    Looking at all this in combination with the almost total absence of any body fat on Lara, I am a little tempted to say Lara looks like someone not confident about his off-cycle fitness; he certainly didn’t want to stand and trade at any point of the fight and that’s unusual in a championship bout - even if you didn’t call Canelo out and talk so much before the bout.

    Anyway, perhaps I shouldn’t read too much into Lara’s physique, instead let’s just say his style has not completely transitioned from amateur to professional yet.

    It had better happen soon, as for all its efficiencies and silent purposes it’s certainly not a crowd pleasing style.

    I have no problem with the split decision for Canelo.

    Happy to hear your views.
    Last edited by stormcentre; 07-14-2014 at 11:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Lara is not comfortable when pressured and will resort to moving more and fighting more in spots like he did against Canelo.

    Here is how Lara could have clearly won this fight.

    When Lara stopped and threw, he landed. Usually it was two or three quick punches with the left being the primary power punch. Canelo would get in a defensive posture and would be in no position to punch or counter. Lara would then get back on his bike and Canelo resume trying to chase him down.

    Instead of going back on his bike, if Lara slid to his left after he threw the initial combination he would have been able to continue to land on Canelo and get that left hand power shot in some more. He didn't have to do this all the time (avoid Canelo maybe timing him) but could easily have done so on many occasions. Canelo was in a defensive posture and in no position to punch. As the old saying in boxing goes "Why hit someone once when you are able to land three, four, five, etc."

    I stated before the fight that Lara needs to dictate pace and fight at his tempo to be successful. That's why he looked great against Paul Williams and Austin Trout. Canelo could have done things to make Lara much more uncomfortable (cut off the ring for one) but Canelo's pressure did not allow Lara to fight at a pace Lara was comfortable at. Thus, Lara fought strictly in spots when he was 100% sure there was no risk and escaped immediately.

    I though Canelo won the fight and deserved the decision. But I also thought Lara could have won by a wide margin but choose to fight in an extremely safety first mode which cost him the fight. He has only himself to blame for not doing enough when he easily could have to get the judges nod.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by oubobcat View Post
    Lara is not comfortable when pressured and will resort to moving more and fighting more in spots like he did against Canelo.

    Here is how Lara could have clearly won this fight.

    When Lara stopped and threw, he landed. Usually it was two or three quick punches with the left being the primary power punch. Canelo would get in a defensive posture and would be in no position to punch or counter. Lara would then get back on his bike and Canelo resume trying to chase him down.

    Instead of going back on his bike, if Lara slid to his left after he threw the initial combination he would have been able to continue to land on Canelo and get that left hand power shot in some more. He didn't have to do this all the time (avoid Canelo maybe timing him) but could easily have done so on many occasions. Canelo was in a defensive posture and in no position to punch. As the old saying in boxing goes "Why hit someone once when you are able to land three, four, five, etc."

    I stated before the fight that Lara needs to dictate pace and fight at his tempo to be successful. That's why he looked great against Paul Williams and Austin Trout. Canelo could have done things to make Lara much more uncomfortable (cut off the ring for one) but Canelo's pressure did not allow Lara to fight at a pace Lara was comfortable at. Thus, Lara fought strictly in spots when he was 100% sure there was no risk and escaped immediately.

    I though Canelo won the fight and deserved the decision. But I also thought Lara could have won by a wide margin but choose to fight in an extremely safety first mode which cost him the fight. He has only himself to blame for not doing enough when he easily could have to get the judges nod.
    All he needs to do is make his guy pay when he misses. That's it. Would've been a landslide.

    Excellent analysis, Storm, was usual.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    All he needs to do is make his guy pay when he misses. That's it. Would've been a landslide.

    Excellent analysis, Storm, was usual.
    Understood, however there is always a reason why he didnt. Canelos punches were too much to take a chance on?

    The Angulo fight of getting hammered and knocked down to the canvas in the back of his mind?


    That is the difference between Floyds style and Lara's, Floyd makes you pay, he doesnt just dance a way.


    I am still athletic enough to spar some decent young guys and just keep away and make them miss while I myself land 15 or 20 shots a round. Sure those shots are fleeing shots just for keep away.

    I have yet to see the fight. I do know Lara beat Pwill, but he was boring as all hell against Trout. I couldnt even make it through the fight saturday, too boring.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by amayseng View Post
    Understood, however there is always a reason why he didnt. Canelos punches were too much to take a chance on?

    The Angulo fight of getting hammered and knocked down to the canvas in the back of his mind?


    That is the difference between Floyds style and Lara's, Floyd makes you pay, he doesnt just dance a way.


    I am still athletic enough to spar some decent young guys and just keep away and make them miss while I myself land 15 or 20 shots a round. Sure those shots are fleeing shots just for keep away.

    I have yet to see the fight. I do know Lara beat Pwill, but he was boring as all hell against Trout. I couldnt even make it through the fight saturday, too boring.
    Yeah, you're right. One guy moves but he makes you pay.

    I don't think it was the Angulo fight in the back of his mind because he fought the exact same way. It's just so hardwired into his boxing makeup to flee.

    (He did the same thing over and over and Canelo fought smart. The fight was right there for him. It was right there for both!

    For Canelo, whenever Lara would exit to his right - which is all Lara does when he goes to the ropes - Canelo would hit him with a left to the body and a straight right up top on Lara's way out. It was there for Canelo all night. Left to the body, straight right up top.

    For Lara, had he just countered him, he would've won rounds convincingly.)

    It wasn't head movement that caused Canelo to miss, Lara would usually make him miss by sidestepping. And he seemed content to embarrass him that way, which is kinda what the Cubans do.

    Kinda like how street ballets will cross you over and "break your ankles" but that doesn't put points on the board.

    Canelo would charge forward with a Tyson-esque overhand right, Lara would not slip it but sidestep while Canelo would be completely off balance.

    In slow motion, Lara could have just stopped and punished him. Bn this mind was so preoccupied with defense and moving that before Canelo could compose himself and reset, Lara would be halfway, if not all the way, across the ring as if to say "look at this fool, he's not in my league."

    Canelo only landed like 24 head shots but those body shots were hard and he did bust Lara open with an awesome lead left uppercut.

    That was actually a close round I thought Lara did better in but with him landing a power punch that opened a cut, I gave that round to Canelo.

    Lara still seems to think that all scoring blows are the same, like in the amateurs.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Yeah, you're right. One guy moves but he makes you pay.

    I don't think it was the Angulo fight in the back of his mind because he fought the exact same way. It's just so hardwired into his boxing makeup to flee.

    (He did the same thing over and over and Canelo fought smart. The fight was right there for him. It was right there for both!

    For Canelo, whenever Lara would exit to his right - which is all Lara does when he goes to the ropes - Canelo would hit him with a left to the body and a straight right up top on Lara's way out. It was there for Canelo all night. Left to the body, straight right up top.

    For Lara, had he just countered him, he would've won rounds convincingly.)

    It wasn't head movement that caused Canelo to miss, Lara would usually make him miss by sidestepping. And he seemed content to embarrass him that way, which is kinda what the Cubans do.

    Kinda like how street ballets will cross you over and "break your ankles" but that doesn't put points on the board.

    Canelo would charge forward with a Tyson-esque overhand right, Lara would not slip it but sidestep while Canelo would be completely off balance.

    In slow motion, Lara could have just stopped and punished him. Bn this mind was so preoccupied with defense and moving that before Canelo could compose himself and reset, Lara would be halfway, if not all the way, across the ring as if to say "look at this fool, he's not in my league."

    Canelo only landed like 24 head shots but those body shots were hard and he did bust Lara open with an awesome lead left uppercut.

    That was actually a close round I thought Lara did better in but with him landing a power punch that opened a cut, I gave that round to Canelo.

    Lara still seems to think that all scoring blows are the same, like in the amateurs.
    Yea you make a lot of sense, like you said it is just embedded in him to fight like that.

    I am gonna try to watch it tonight if I have time.

    After all the smack Lara talked, interrupting Canelos victory press conference, which is very disrespectful and even threatening to punch out ODLH, I just expected to see Lara go for it, and from what it seems he didnt.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    [QUOTE=stormcentre;58091]In between rounds 8 and 9 Ronnie Shields can be clearly heard telling Lara (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVELJAWc6k 50.18) “we don’t want any close rounds . . . the jab, one, two, it’s there all day”, as he explicitly appeals for Erislandy Lara to do more work.

    This, if ever there was, was a call to be more active otherwise suffer the possible consequences of a close fight combined with possible hometown scoring favoring the current champion.

    As it all took place Lara looked vaguely off into the distance and failed to acknowledge his trainer’s requests and/or instructions.

    Me and my roommate noticed the exact same thing. Lara didn't have a good round at all and when he came to the corner, his trainer told him that "they didnt want those close rounds". And Lara was just looking around and not really seemed to be focused, Like he had something else in mind. Great analysis and I had Canelo up by one round but can totally see either fighter getting the nod by one of 2 rounds.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by amayseng View Post
    Yea you make a lot of sense, like you said it is just embedded in him to fight like that.

    I am gonna try to watch it tonight if I have time.

    After all the smack Lara talked, interrupting Canelos victory press conference, which is very disrespectful and even threatening to punch out ODLH, I just expected to see Lara go for it, and from what it seems he didnt.
    Exactly. He had me fooled too, I thought he would at least try to put a hurting on the he guy. He just didn't. But I guess he fought the best way he knows how.

    The best thing he can do is go back to Houston and work on becoming a more versatile, well-rounded fighter. A great fighter can add layers to his game.

    Ali, during his most spectacular years in hey he '60s, used to get pummeled in close by the likes of Henry Cooper -- who bloodied his nose and made him flinch (!) -- and Sonny Liston.

    During his exile, he said they worked on wrestling and clinching constantly, over and over; it ended up becoming one of his most trusted defensive weapons.

    Mayweather got roughed up in close by Castillo; by the time the rematch came along, it had become a strength of his. He's now one of the best inside fighters in boxing.

    The worst thing he can do is complain and act like he was Pacquiao robbed. That will just get judges against you and it won't make you a better fighter.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by oubobcat View Post
    Lara is not comfortable when pressured and will resort to moving more and fighting more in spots like he did against Canelo.

    Here is how Lara could have clearly won this fight.

    When Lara stopped and threw, he landed. Usually it was two or three quick punches with the left being the primary power punch. Canelo would get in a defensive posture and would be in no position to punch or counter. Lara would then get back on his bike and Canelo resume trying to chase him down.

    Instead of going back on his bike, if Lara slid to his left after he threw the initial combination he would have been able to continue to land on Canelo and get that left hand power shot in some more. He didn't have to do this all the time (avoid Canelo maybe timing him) but could easily have done so on many occasions. Canelo was in a defensive posture and in no position to punch. As the old saying in boxing goes "Why hit someone once when you are able to land three, four, five, etc."

    I stated before the fight that Lara needs to dictate pace and fight at his tempo to be successful. That's why he looked great against Paul Williams and Austin Trout. Canelo could have done things to make Lara much more uncomfortable (cut off the ring for one) but Canelo's pressure did not allow Lara to fight at a pace Lara was comfortable at. Thus, Lara fought strictly in spots when he was 100% sure there was no risk and escaped immediately.

    I though Canelo won the fight and deserved the decision. But I also thought Lara could have won by a wide margin but choose to fight in an extremely safety first mode which cost him the fight. He has only himself to blame for not doing enough when he easily could have to get the judges nod.
    I agree, the opportunity was there for Lara to throw more and he both didn’t and should have.

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    Re: A Few Last Thoughts On Canelo's Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormcentre View Post
    I agree, the opportunity was there for Lara to throw more and he both didn’t and should have.
    If he would have thrown more punches, he would have gotten KTFO! Canelo's game halted him from throwing more punches urge him to move like Usain Bolt. Holla!

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