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Thread: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

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  1. #1
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    My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    With the 117-111 score, it may seem wide, but it's easy to forget that there were plenty of swing rounds and judges sometimes favor the guy coming forward.

    Remember the Pacquiao-Marquez 3 116-112 scorecard? Similar situation, though far more egregious.

    There is only a four-round difference between 115-113 for Dandy Landy and 117-111 for Canelo. Were there four swing rounds in the fight?

    I think most would say yes.

    In the case of swing rounds, it's almost like soccer games in the event of a draw -- the edge goes to the home team. Whether we like it or not, that's how it goes in boxing, too.

    Should Lara have let his hands go more? Sure. But then again, it's not that simple.

    "There's a reason Lara was throwing and you gotta credit Canelo for that," Paulie Malignaggi told the Boxing Channel. "The people who reason that way are idiots."

    As for Lara, the Cuban has good technique and fundamentals but as crazy as it sounds, he's way too one-dimensional. And with a one-dimensional offense, your output can be limited once forced to fight outside your comfort zone.

    As of right now, Dandy Landy just isn't ready yet.

    He needs to learn how to clinch, tie a guy up and disrupt his rhythm, fight on the inside, fight in the pocket and vary his offense a bit more.

    Ronnie Shields needs to get that boy in the film room and study the crafty inside work of Jimmy Young, George Benton, Larry Holmes, Andre Ward and Floyd Mayweather and drill it to death in the gym for like six months straight.

    He wouldn't even be changing him, he'd just add more layers to his current arsenal. Or maybe he needs Deepwater to go down to Texas, grab a tire, place his foot inside it and have him work.

    Like I've said yesterday, and I've said all along, Lara's a poor man's Rigondeaux. Which is enough to get you to a certain level but not enough to pound-for-pound you to the absolute upper echelon of elite where Floyd, Ward and Rigo reside.

    Max Kellerman deserves more respect, by the way, for always keeping a sense of perspective. And I also liked this analogy :-p

    https://twitter.com/max_kellerman/st...90234358603776

  2. #2
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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    I understand your take. But no cake. The judge of that wide score was a home-country snake. He ought to jump in the lake. Because he is all wet. And as Paulie M said: "He had his score down before the fight started." And on that I bet.

    Being from Mexico -- and not being able to be fair -- he should not have been a judge. True boxing people, who know that they cannot be fair always remove themselves from scoring when homies are getting down. Holla!

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Radam -- I respect your work but I'm compelled to disagree with you. For the record, Judge Levi Martinez is from New Mexico, not Mexico. I don't know his nationality, but I know that many longtime residents of New Mexico can trace their lineage to the Spanish-Basque explorers who arrived in the 17th century.

    Art "Golden Boy" Aragon, the most exciting fighter to bubble out of New Mexico, resented being identified as Mexican while he was an up-and-comer. "My heritage is Spanish," he insisted. Aragon later developed a huge Mexican following in Los Angeles.

    I agree that Martinez's score was too wide, but it wasn't an easy fight to score and I wouldn't hold it against him. It's worth noting that he was the only judge to score every round for Adrien Broner in Broner's fight with Mexican-American Carlos Molina.

    I don't feel sorry for Lara. When you're fighting on the other guy's turf -- and Canelo was the house fighter in Las Vegas -- you have to be more aggressive. Invariably in a close fight one of the judges will score the bout with his ears.

    I'm reminded of a conversation overheard at the bank of telephones in Stillman's gym. A fight manager was on the horn with an out-of-town promoter who needed a last-minute replacement to salvage his show. "If we win can we get a draw?" asked the fight manager.

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Quote Originally Posted by ArneK. View Post
    Radam -- I respect your work but I'm compelled to disagree with you. For the record, Judge Levi Martinez is from New Mexico, not Mexico. I don't know his nationality, but I know that many longtime residents of New Mexico can trace their lineage to the Spanish-Basque explorers who arrived in the 17th century.

    Art "Golden Boy" Aragon, the most exciting fighter to bubble out of New Mexico, resented being identified as Mexican while he was an up-and-comer. "My heritage is Spanish," he insisted. Aragon later developed a huge Mexican following in Los Angeles.

    I agree that Martinez's score was too wide, but it wasn't an easy fight to score and I wouldn't hold it against him. It's worth noting that he was the only judge to score every round for Adrien Broner in Broner's fight with Mexican-American Carlos Molina.

    I don't feel sorry for Lara. When you're fighting on the other guy's turf -- and Canelo was the house fighter in Las Vegas -- you have to be more aggressive. Invariably in a close fight one of the judges will score the bout with his ears.

    I'm reminded of a conversation overheard at the bank of telephones in Stillman's gym. A fight manager was on the horn with an out-of-town promoter who needed a last-minute replacement to salvage his show. "If we win can we get a draw?" asked the fight manager.
    My bad! He is born in New Mexico -- [so it goes] -- from Mexican parents. I personally know L.M. I meant that he will be bias for a Mexican-native pug because of the same ethnicity. And he was. No more than my U.S. born Pinoy relatives will be bias for a Filipino-or-Chinese-native pug.

    Most ethnic people have built-in biases for their own. And are in self denial about it. Beside, a lot of Mexican boxers -- past and present -- are also full of Asian blood. Particularly the blood of Filipinos and Arabs. And I can name them all. They don't like to admit to it because of a culture-held stigma of being a first-or second-degree mestizo.

    I can be 100-percent fair. Except for close relatives and friends. So I have enough sense to remove myself as an amateur judge and a part-time pro one.

    I have no bones to pick. I said STRAIGHT UP in this Universe when the fight was first made that Lara would never, NEVER win a decision. I call a spade a spade. And never hide in the shade. The game is full of crooks. And like my boy, Teddy Atlas, I ain't gonna give them a passing grade.

    When I found out who the judges were, I call a gift decision or lift draw for Canelo. And I told key people to watch L.M. "He's going to vote for Canelo. And it will be ridiculous." Nostradamus-like I was. Holla!

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    I believe Canelo won the fight. Watch those close rounds very carefully...In my opinion, the hard clean body shots Canelo landed in those rounds carried more weight than the punches, many times flashier, that Lara landed. This is professional boxing and clean hard punches carry more weight when scoring a fight.

    That said, it was a difficult fight to score with many close rounds. I certainly understand the arguments for Lara. I disagree but understand as there were a lot of close rounds.

    A lot of people also ave criticized Levi Martinez's scorecard. Again, a lot of close rounds. I did not think the margin was that wide but I can see how Martinez scored the fight the way he did. In my opinion, the criticism being thrown his way is unjust.

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Shadow, I like your advice for Lara but I think Levi Martinez had his card filled out before the fight started.

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine Cas View Post
    Shadow, I like your advice for Lara but I think Levi Martinez had his card filled out before the fight started.
    He did. And I'm with Teddy Atlas. "These type of judges disgrace our sport..." Holla!

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Quote Originally Posted by Radam G View Post
    He did. And I'm with Teddy Atlas. "These type of judges disgrace our sport..." Holla!
    Teddy Atlas was probably flipping out after he heard the score cards, too bad there wasn't a camera in front him lol!

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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Lara learned a valuable lesson here. Don't be content to make a guy miss. You gotta make him pay. All those time he had Canelo swinging like a caveman, instead of fleeing, Lara should've stopped and fired.

    I'm not going to say he should just let his hands go in the center because there are subtle things we don't see that Canelo could've done to discourage it.

    But when a guy fires and misses, the opening is there! Take it!

    Sadly, he's been like that since he turned pro. There would be many, many openings he would never take advantage of. Teddy Atlas pointed this out when he fought Carlos Molina.

    He's got some nice endurance, that's for sure, but he needs to work on countering off those misses.

    When Canelo swung like that, the perception, to the viewer (at least based on the Twitter commentary I saw from some "reputable" media), isn't necessarily that he's a good defender. Instead, it gives the impression that Canelo is trying to catch the Road Runner.

    Had he simply pivoted off one of those wild overhand rights, he could've landed anywhere from one to three clean punches to the body and/or head before Canelo would know what hit him.

  10. #10
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    Re: My Take On Canelo, Lara and the Wide Scorecard

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Lara learned a valuable lesson here. Don't be content to make a guy miss. You gotta make him pay. All those time he had Canelo swinging like a caveman, instead of fleeing, Lara should've stopped and fired.

    I'm not going to say he should just let his hands go in the center because there are subtle things we don't see that Canelo could've done to discourage it.

    But when a guy fires and misses, the opening is there! Take it!

    Sadly, he's been like that since he turned pro. There would be many, many openings he would never take advantage of. Teddy Atlas pointed this out when he fought Carlos Molina.

    He's got some nice endurance, that's for sure, but he needs to work on countering off those misses.

    When Canelo swung like that, the perception, to the viewer (at least based on the Twitter commentary I saw from some "reputable" media), isn't necessarily that he's a good defender. Instead, it gives the impression that Canelo is trying to catch the Road Runner.

    Had he simply pivoted off one of those wild overhand rights, he could've landed anywhere from one to three clean punches to the body and/or head before Canelo would know what hit him.
    It is not that easy. He could not have stopped and fired without getting plugged, i.e., "El Perro" Angulo. The red-headed hype was waiting for him to sit down and punch. Then KaPOW! Lights out! Hehe!

    That caveman swinging was designed for that purpose. Sometimes you have to take it back to the way of the ancients. Canelo was caveman swinging to where he thought Lara was going to be. Don't forget that Team Canelo studied the Lara-Angulo Bout.

    Lara would three steps to the right -- FEINT -- then two steps to the left and fired a 1-2. El Perro "caveman" swung hooked and swung a clubbing right cross and dropped him twice and staggered him all night long.

    The sweet science is about a lot of settled actions and reactions that the average Joe and Jane don't know and cannot see. Openings that you swe/saw are optical illusion baits. Darn tricks of the trade. If Lara would've went for them, he would've GKTFO. In that squared jungle, it's tricky. And you better listen to your corner's Mickey. Holla!

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