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Thread: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

  1. #31
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
    2. Guillermo Rigondeaux
    3. Andre Ward
    4. Bernard Hopkins, Jr.
    5. Juan Manuel Marquez
    6. Manny Pacquiao
    7. Timothy Bradley, Jr.
    8. Nonito Donaire, Jr.
    9. Abner Mares
    10. Carl Froch

    Explanations:

    *I rate Rigondeaux and Ward equally as pros so I would have them a tie. However to avoid ranking them as 2 and 2a (I assume there's a point system involved in the accumulation of scores), I give the 2nd place to Rigondeaux based on just pure skill. Ward is a better inside fighter and a filthier pro but Rigo Ortiz is a better athlete, faster, more powerful (P4P), and the better boxer, period.

    * Some may think this is too high for B-Hop. I don't. This man gets it done on skill and skill alone. While he still has underrated speed and world class reflexes, there is no doubt that he is compromised due to aching joints, aging limbs and not to mention being vastly undersized (he walks the streets as low as 168 while his opponents run around ripped at 190) in the division he just unified. At 50. What. The. F*ck!

    I think people are either taking it for granted or not quite realizing it yet but we are incredibly blessed to see that historic collection of talent in the Top 4 in one generation. Legends in any era.

    Skill for skill, if everyone is, say, 160 and 28 years old (and this is a mythical list, obviously), Hopkins devours everyone from 3 on down. Of course, resume-wise, Hopkins syets on Ward but I consider that an even match with a slight edge to Hopkins.

    What's crazy is that I consider it an even match today with the slight advantage to Ward. Skill and guile. He's the epitome of what a pound for pound fighter is.

    * It's always tricky to rate the Top Rank trinity of Marquez, Bradley and Pacquiao. Where do you rank each? Marquez has given Pacquiao fits at four different weights where Pacquiao was otherwise dominant. On the other hand, Marquez lost to Bradley by decision while Pacquiao overwhelmed Bradley on two occasions. Tricky indeed.

    Ultimately I rate Marquez above both and here's why: this is a POUND FOR POUND list, not a ATP/WTA ranking list. Not credential-for-credential or resume-for-resume (though opposition is vital, from a yardstick point of view). And Marquez, the natural featherweight (measure his toothpick legs and ankles, bone density, and skinny wrists for proof), is clearly - CLEARLY - fighting way outside his weight class.

    In fact, watching the fight -- though Bradley is a stylistic nightmare for Marquez and always will be -- by fighting at 147 in his quest for history, he's effectively giving up some of his advantages from the lower weights in power and strength.

    Nevertheless, he's competing and beating guys who are much bigger than him, starting from when he moved to lightweight and captured all the trinkets there to when he recently placed a pinpoint, picture perfect right hand with such surgical precision and flawless technique that he sent the towering Mike Alvarado across the ring and damn near through the ropes. That's pound for pound skill, my dude.

    Now, while Pacquiao is better suited to move up in weight due to his bone density and freakish lower body, over the course of four fights and four different weights Marquez has arguably proven to be the better fighter while unquestionably winning the vast majority of rounds throughout their tetralogy. Overall, if everyone was the same size, I would favor Marquez to beat everyone with the exception of those ranked above him.

    But again, with these three, it's an extremely tricky proposition.

    * Yes, Nonito got schooled vs. Rigondeaux. Yes, he looked sluggish in his last outing. But let's not forget he captured yet another championship the last time around. The reason people are writing him off is due to the extremely high level he set for himself. Skill for skill, he's still right up there. I don't believe anyone ever beats Rigo in a fair fight, not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow. Ousting him from the rankings for running into the greatest

    Donaire still has extremely educated feet, is very smart inside the ring, packs a punch in both Pinoy palms and has actually demonstrated in practice what most wonder in theory -- that he can jump weight classes and be dominant. Naturally. That says a lot. He deserves inclusion on every Top 10. It's that simple.

    * Abner Mares. Again, just because he got a loss, people wrote him off after ranking him as high as Top 5 prior to his defeat. People forget that Mares was winning championships and blowing through the smaller weight classes with such momentum -- 118, 122 and then 126 -- while forgetting that weight classes exist for a reason.

    I repeat: WEIGHT CLASSES EXIST FOR A REASON!

    Not to mention, Mares left what brought him to the dance -- his boxing skill -- and arrogantly tried to mow through a natural 126-pounder who had nothing more than a massive punch. That usually yields one thing and one thing only: a quick trip to the showers. And that's exactly what he got.

    But just because he made a foolish decision that led to one defeat doesn't mean he should be written off.

    After all, in all fairness -- and I do understand most media do want to include him there -- Pacquiao stayed in the Top 10 in spite of being brutally dropped and later stopped. After beating a guy coming off a loss, Pacquiao rose in the ratings once more.

    For that reason, Mares also deserves to stay in the Top 10 over other guys whose skills have yet to be tested. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you look like a monster against subpar opposition, you are no more legit than a guy like Deontay Wilder.

    In fact, there's an argument to be made that Wilder has beaten a tougher foe in Malik Scott -- who easily routed the currently ranked No. 5 -- than either of the seductive Soviet sensations, who are on the cusp of cracking the top but are not quite there yet. The same holds true for Erislandy Lara who, while skilled, is being hyped just a tad bit much based on a victory over a dejected, tailor made Austin Trout.

    *Finally, Carl Froch. This is a man who earns this spot by way of intangibles. Cus D'Amato once said that he with greater will will always prevail unless the opponent's skill is so great that his will is never tested.

    This sums up Carl Froch perfectly. He stood no chance against Ward since Ward's skill was superior. His skill level, quite honestly, is abysmal for a top level fighter. However he wills himself to victory time and time again.

    It's quite remarkable when you think about it. Every fight he has, save for a few exceptions, he seems to struggle to get the victory. But he usually gets it. By sheer will. I don't care if Froch was 112 or 224, this attribute alone would propel him to championship status -- and for that reason, he deserves inclusion in the Top 10 fighters pound-for-pound.

    This is The Shadow's list, folks.
    Last edited by The Shadow; 07-09-2014 at 02:30 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
    2. Guillermo Rigondeaux
    3. Andre Ward
    4. Bernard Hopkins, Jr.
    5. Juan Manuel Marquez
    6. Manny Pacquiao
    7. Timothy Bradley, Jr.
    8. Nonito Donaire, Jr.
    9. Abner Mares
    10. Carl Froch

    Explanations:

    *I rate Rigondeaux and Ward equally as pros so I would have them a tie. However to avoid ranking them as 2 and 2a (I assume there's a point system involved in the accumulation of scores), I give the 2nd place to Rigondeaux based on just pure skill. Ward is a better inside fighter and a filthier pro but Rigo Ortiz is a better athlete, faster, more powerful (P4P), and the better boxer, period.

    * Some may think this is too high for B-Hop. I don't. This man gets it done on skill and skill alone. While he still has underrated speed and world class reflexes, there is no doubt that he is compromised due to aching joints, aging limbs and not to mention being vastly undersized (he walks the streets as low as 168 while his opponents run around ripped at 190) in the division he just unified. At 50. What. The. F*ck!

    I think people are either taking it for granted or not quite realizing it yet but we are incredibly blessed to see that historic collection of talent in the Top 4 in one generation. Legends in any era.

    Skill for skill, if everyone is, say, 160 and 28 years old (and this is a mythical list, obviously), Hopkins devours everyone from 3 on down. Of course, resume-wise, Hopkins syets on Ward but I consider that an even match with a slight edge to Hopkins.

    What's crazy is that I consider it an even match today with the slight advantage to Ward. Skill and guile. He's the epitome of what a pound for pound fighter is.

    * It's always tricky to rate the Top Rank trinity of Marquez, Bradley and Pacquiao. Where do you rank each? Marquez has given Pacquiao fits at four different weights where Pacquiao was otherwise dominant. On the other hand, Marquez lost to Bradley by decision while Pacquiao overwhelmed Bradley on two occasions. Tricky indeed.

    Ultimately I rate Marquez above both and here's why: this is a POUND FOR POUND list, not a ATP/WTA ranking list. Not credential-for-credential or resume-for-resume (though opposition is vital, from a yardstick point of view). And Marquez, the natural featherweight (measure his toothpick legs and ankles, bone density, and skinny wrists for proof), is clearly - CLEARLY - fighting way outside his weight class.

    In fact, watching the fight -- though Bradley is a stylistic nightmare for Marquez and always will be -- by fighting at 147 in his quest for history, he's effectively giving up some of his advantages from the lower weights in power and strength.

    Nevertheless, he's competing and beating guys who are much bigger than him, starting from when he moved to lightweight and captured all the trinkets there to when he recently placed a pinpoint, picture perfect right hand with such surgical precision and flawless technique that he sent the towering Mike Alvarado across the ring and damn near through the ropes. That's pound for pound skill, my dude.

    Now, while Pacquiao is better suited to move up in weight due to his bone density and freakish lower body, over the course of four fights and four different weights Marquez has arguably proven to be the better fighter while unquestionably winning the vast majority of rounds throughout their tetralogy. Overall, if everyone was the same size, I would favor Marquez to beat everyone with the exception of those ranked above him.

    But again, with these three, it's an extremely tricky proposition.

    * Yes, Nonito got schooled vs. Rigondeaux. Yes, he looked sluggish in his last outing. But let's not forget he captured yet another championship the last time around. The reason people are writing him off is due to the extremely high level he set for himself. Skill for skill, he's still right up there. I don't believe anyone ever beats Rigo in a fair fight, not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow. Ousting him from the rankings for running into the greatest

    Donaire still has extremely educated feet, is very smart inside the ring, packs a punch in both Pinoy palms and has actually demonstrated in practice what most wonder in theory -- that he can jump weight classes and be dominant. Naturally. That says a lot. He deserves inclusion on every Top 10. It's that simple.

    * Abner Mares. Again, just because he got a loss, people wrote him off after ranking him as high as Top 5 prior to his defeat. People forget that Mares was winning championships and blowing through the smaller weight classes with such momentum -- 118, 122 and then 126 -- while forgetting that weight classes exist for a reason.

    I repeat: WEIGHT CLASSES EXIST FOR A REASON!

    Not to mention, Mares left what brought him to the dance -- his boxing skill -- and arrogantly tried to mow through a natural 126-pounder who had nothing more than a massive punch. That usually yields one thing and one thing only: a quick trip to the showers. And that's exactly what he got.

    But just because he made a foolish decision that led to one defeat doesn't mean he should be written off.

    After all, in all fairness -- and I do understand most media do want to include him there -- Pacquiao stayed in the Top 10 in spite of being brutally dropped and later stopped. After beating a guy coming off a loss, Pacquiao rose in the ratings once more.

    For that reason, Mares also deserves to stay in the Top 10 over other guys whose skills have yet to be tested. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you look like a monster against subpar opposition, you are no more legit than a guy like Deontay Wilder.

    In fact, there's an argument to be made that Wilder has beaten a tougher foe in Malik Scott -- who easily routed the currently ranked No. 5 -- than either of the seductive Soviet sensations, who are on the cusp of cracking the top but are not quite there yet. The same holds true for Erislandy Lara who, while skilled, is being hyped just a tad bit much based on a victory over a dejected, tailor made Austin Trout.

    *Finally, Carl Froch. This is a man who earns this spot by way of intangibles. Cus D'Amato once said that he with greater will will always prevail unless the opponent's skill is so great that his will is never tested.

    This sums up Carl Froch perfectly. He stood no chance against Ward since Ward's skill was superior. His skill level, quite honestly, is abysmal for a top level fighter. However he wills himself to victory time and time again.

    It's quite remarkable when you think about it. Every fight he has, save for a few exceptions, he seems to struggle to get the victory. But he usually gets it. By sheer will. I don't care if Froch was 112 or 224, this attribute alone would propel him to championship status -- and for that reason, he deserves inclusion in the Top 10 fighters pound-for-pound.

    This is The Shadow's list, folks.
    Good stuff. Enough said. Holla!

  3. #33
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    Our new PxP ratings will be posted on Monday morning. If you haven't sent yours in, please do so.

    -Randy G.

  4. #34

    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    Quote Originally Posted by deepwater2 View Post
    1. Mayweather
    2. Pac
    3. Klitchko
    4. Froch
    5. Ward
    6. Garcia
    7. Rigo
    8. Golovkin
    9. Kovelev
    10. Lomachenko


    Top 10 All Time
    1. Harry Greb
    2. Sugar Ray Robinson
    3. Rocky Marciano
    4. Jack Johnson
    5. Bob Fitzsimmons
    6. Sam Langford
    7. Mickey Walker
    8. Jack Dempsey
    9. John L Sullivan
    10. Joe Louis
    Now I find the all-time top 10 much more interesting and fun.

    1) Henry Armstrong
    2) Joe Gans
    3) Sam Langford
    4) Harry Greb
    5) Sugar Ray Robinson
    6) Joe Louis
    7) Barney Ross
    8) Tony Canzoneri
    9) Archie Moore
    10) Willie Pep


    There are too many guys lol. Based on record and accomplishment, I would probably put Gene Tunney at number 11.

  5. #35

    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    Here is my current top 10.

    1 Floyd Mayweather Jr
    2 Andre Ward
    3 Guillermo Rigondeaux
    4 Danny Garcia
    5 Manny Pacquiao
    6 Juan Manuel Marquez
    7 Mikey Garcia
    8 Timothy Bradley
    9 Nonito Donaire
    10 Terrence Crawford

    I dropped Cotto from 10 and moved Crawford in based on his performance against Gamboa. Skill wise, I always thought Gamboa was on the level of Rigondeaux, but whereas Willie is disciplined, Gamboa is a head case that allegedly hits women, so I'm not sure he will get as far.

  6. #36
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    I will start compiling them today. Should be fun...and tedious. One at a time, the old-fashioned way! But there's still time to get your ratings in if you haven't already.

    -Randy G.

  7. #37
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    1. Golovkin
    2. Rigondeaux
    3. Mayweather
    4. Pacquiao
    5. Ward
    6. Hopkins
    7. Kovalev
    8. Lara
    9. Lomachenko
    10. Mikey Garcia

  8. #38
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    Wow Commish. You sure aren't scared to look at 'work' in the eye and make it look away first! Great work ethic and can't wait to see what the list ends up being.

  9. #39
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    This almost begs for a thread on its own, but anyway, here's my all-time 10 - spiced with some relatively modern names.

    1. Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Muhammad Ali
    3. Harry Greb
    4. Henry Armstrong
    5. Joe Louis
    6. Roberto Duran
    7. Willie Pep
    8. Julio Cesar Chavez
    9. Khaosai Galaxy
    10. Benny Leonard

    Duran. My God. Debuted in 1968, hanged them up in the 00's. 5 decades, folks - and yet a hall of famer already in the 70's. Beyond belief, really.

  10. #40
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    Re: Our Very Own PxP Ratings...a TSS Exclusive

    Quote Originally Posted by flackoguapo View Post
    Wow Commish. You sure aren't scared to look at 'work' in the eye and make it look away first! Great work ethic and can't wait to see what the list ends up being.
    You've heard this before, Flacko, and it's so true: When you love what you do and do what you love, it's not work at all.

    I'm a boxing lifer. Solitary confinement, forced to sit in my pen and read/write boxing stories all day. When I am allowed out, I go to the gym--and box.

    That's what being a boxing lifer is all about!

    And now, back to the ratings!

    -Randy G.

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