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Thread: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

  1. #11
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Even if that were to happen, Bob Arum doesn't believe this. He (or should I say Bruce, who is Bob's filter) doesn't even feel fully confident matching him with AB.
    Because there is no hook for Da Manny slaughtering AB. This AB joke-a-poke is a terrible copycat of Money May. AB blind himself with his bad imitation of the fam May's shoulder roll.

    Da Manny would kayo AB in a round or two, reminiscent of Ricky Hatton getting PacKTFO. Holla!

  2. #12
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    @The Shadow. There are judges who are very aware of where the promoter's interests lie, and are unashamed to do their very best in helping the promoter meet his expectations. Simple logic really. Promoter's fighters keep winning, more good things will happen for the promoter, usually resulting in more shows, resulting in more work for said judge. Vulgar, really.

    We had a show Saturday night. Before the first bout it was I who was reinforcing 'Get it right. It's vital the winner gets his hand raised. A fighter earns it, it's imperative he's awarded the victory.'

  3. #13
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by Radam G View Post
    Because there is no hook for Da Manny slaughtering AB. This AB joke-a-poke is a terrible copycat of Money May. AB blind himself with his bad imitation of the fam May's shoulder roll.

    Da Manny would kayo AB in a round or two, reminiscent of Ricky Hatton getting PacKTFO. Holla!
    Maybe with Ariza in his corner. Keep in mind, this supposedly destructive puncher hasn't had a KO in FIVE years. He has had only one knockdown since facing Cotto (Marquez was off-balance more than anything).

    He doesn't punch harder than Marcos Maidana, at least I don't think he does (haven't been hit by either and I certainly don't intend to lol).

    I don't see Pacquiao stopping AB or any other top welter at this moment. He couldn't even finish Rios, a guy he would've pummeled into a coma four or five years ago.

    He might stop Jesus Soto-Krash or Andre Berto, if he can connect.

    Also, I think AB beats JMM rather handily. And for the record, JMM is one of my favorite fighters. Like him far more than AB who's not even in my Top 25 of fighters I root for. (TBH I don't root for him at all.)

    But let's keep it real, Pacquiao's not stopping anybody anymore.

  4. #14
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by dino da vinci View Post
    @The Shadow. There are judges who are very aware of where the promoter's interests lie, and are unashamed to do their very best in helping the promoter meet his expectations. Simple logic really. Promoter's fighters keep winning, more good things will happen for the promoter, usually resulting in more shows, resulting in more work for said judge. Vulgar, really.

    We had a show Saturday night. Before the first bout it was I who was reinforcing 'Get it right. It's vital the winner gets his hand raised. A fighter earns it, it's imperative he's awarded the victory.'
    Yes, I imagined something like that. It is vulgar. But the logic, sadly, makes sense. I'm happy you operate like that. I applaud you.

    I've heard that in some cases, the judges will be wined and dined by promoters, basically leaving them with the impression that if they want perks like that, the promoter's guy obviously has to win. Have you seen this?

    How did the show go? Nice turnout? Did your men perform well?

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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Maybe with Ariza in his corner. Keep in mind, this supposedly destructive puncher hasn't had a KO in FIVE years. He has had only one knockdown since facing Cotto (Marquez was off-balance more than anything).

    He doesn't punch harder than Marcos Maidana, at least I don't think he does (haven't been hit by either and I certainly don't intend to lol).

    I don't see Pacquiao stopping AB or any other top welter at this moment. He couldn't even finish Rios, a guy he would've pummeled into a coma four or five years ago.

    He might stop Jesus Soto-Krash or Andre Berto, if he can connect.

    Also, I think AB beats JMM rather handily. And for the record, JMM is one of my favorite fighters. Like him far more than AB who's not even in my Top 25 of fighters I root for. (TBH I don't root for him at all.)

    But let's keep it real, Pacquiao's not stopping anybody anymore.

    I think you're coming down too hard on the Congressman, Shadow.

    Everyone keeps saying Pac has no 'snap' or 'pop' or even power in his punches any more. I think that's flat out not true.

    He destroyed Cotto, and after him fought a string of tough guys with solid chins. Let's not forget that Pac is fighting well above his comfort zone at 147/54.

    Clottey had a SOLID chin. The guy's head was made of wood or something. There was nothing wrong with Pacquiao's punches, though Pac was considerably smaller in that fight. It's tough to stop a guy bigger than you, with a great chin. Let's not forget that Clottey has never been stopped either- even by Cotto, when Cotto was knocking guys out left right and centre.

    Margarito could easily have been stopped by Pacquiao, but Pacquiao chose not to. He was looking at the ref waiting for him to stop the fight. Pac had no desire to possibly kill the guy, so he let him finish.

    Marquaez and Bradley are both great boxers, and its a testament to their skill that they can both prevent Pac from planting himself long enough to land too many big power shots. Good boxers like those two can keep their opponent off balance just enough to stop the biggest punches coming their way. Not to mention the great defence of both guys.

    Bradley is also another one of these wooden headed guys that can seem to take unlimited amounts of punishment, and still keep going. Provodnikov turned Bradley's brains to jelly, and STILL never managed to completely stop the cogs from turning, so I don't look down on Pac for not being able to KO the guy. Provo punches like a middleweight and couldn't do it.

    Brandon Rios, again, a guy with a great chin, who's never been stopped. The guy actually ENJOYS taking punishment, so I don't think it reflects badly on Pac that he didn't get the KO.

    You can make what you want of the Ariza situation, but until it can be proven, it's all just speculation, and I'd rather stick to the facts. Besides, I don't personally subscribe to the theory of a magic pill giving and taking away knock-out power. A punch is a transfer of weight more than a contraction of muscles.

    And AB would stand no chance if you ask me. No chance at all.
    Last edited by thegreyman; 06-18-2014 at 07:34 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreyman View Post
    I think you're coming down too hard on the Congressman, Shadow.

    Everyone keeps saying Pac has no 'snap' or 'pop' or even power in his punches any more. I think that's flat out not true.

    He destroyed Cotto, and after him fought a string of tough guys with solid chins. Let's not forget that Pac is fighting well above his comfort zone at 147/54.

    Clottey had a SOLID chin. The guy's head was made of wood or something. There was nothing wrong with Pacquiao's punches, though Pac was considerably smaller in that fight. It's tough to stop a guy bigger than you, with a great chin. Let's not forget that Clottey has never been stopped either- even by Cotto, when Cotto was knocking guys out left right and centre.

    Margarito could easily have been stopped by Pacquiao, but Pacquiao chose not to. He was looking at the ref waiting for him to stop the fight. Pac had no desire to possibly kill the guy, so he let him finish.

    Marquaez and Bradley are both great boxers, and its a testament to their skill that they can both prevent Pac from planting himself long enough to land too many big power shots. Good boxers like those two can keep their opponent off balance just enough to stop the biggest punches coming their way. Not to mention the great defence of both guys.

    Bradley is also another one of these wooden headed guys that can seem to take unlimited amounts of punishment, and still keep going. Provodnikov turned Bradley's brains to jelly, and STILL never managed to completely stop the cogs from turning, so I don't look down on Pac for not being able to KO the guy. Provo punches like a middleweight and couldn't do it.

    Brandon Rios, again, a guy with a great chin, who's never been stopped. The guy actually ENJOYS taking punishment, so I don't think it reflects badly on Pac that he didn't get the KO.

    You can make what you want of the Ariza situation, but until it can be proven, it's all just speculation, and I'd rather stick to the facts. Besides, I don't personally subscribe to the theory of a magic pill giving and taking away knock-out power. A punch is a transfer of weight more than a contraction of muscles.
    Very well said Greyman. I do agree that Pac hasn't scored a knock out and perhaps the sting has left his punches but that's to be expected. He can't possibly be fighting with the same zeal he had in his youth. Even Duran toward the tail end of his career when he was fighting in weights he was not suited to wasn't knocking every one out. He got a few guys but their wills were broken long before they faced him and the stoppages looked inevitable from the opening bell.

    With age comes experience, and you know you don't have to take a lot of punishment to deal out a relatively consistent amount of punishment to your opponent. Before when Pac was knocking his opponents out, he too was getting hit and even dropped. Now he's taking less damage and arguably battering his opponents even worse, even if his punches aren't as electrifying as they used to be.

    And alluding to Ariza and the use of PED's is nothing but unfounded claims. When we receive facts with real evidence to prove them then we can really get into that debate. For now, it is nothing but a claim and there are a million more where they came from.

  7. #17
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreyman View Post
    I think you're coming down too hard on the Congressman, Shadow.

    Everyone keeps saying Pac has no 'snap' or 'pop' or even power in his punches any more. I think that's flat out not true.

    He destroyed Cotto, and after him fought a string of tough guys with solid chins. Let's not forget that Pac is fighting well above his comfort zone at 147/54.

    Clottey had a SOLID chin. The guy's head was made of wood or something. There was nothing wrong with Pacquiao's punches, though Pac was considerably smaller in that fight. It's tough to stop a guy bigger than you, with a great chin. Let's not forget that Clottey has never been stopped either- even by Cotto, when Cotto was knocking guys out left right and centre.

    Margarito could easily have been stopped by Pacquiao, but Pacquiao chose not to. He was looking at the ref waiting for him to stop the fight. Pac had no desire to possibly kill the guy, so he let him finish.

    Marquaez and Bradley are both great boxers, and its a testament to their skill that they can both prevent Pac from planting himself long enough to land too many big power shots. Good boxers like those two can keep their opponent off balance just enough to stop the biggest punches coming their way. Not to mention the great defence of both guys.

    Bradley is also another one of these wooden headed guys that can seem to take unlimited amounts of punishment, and still keep going. Provodnikov turned Bradley's brains to jelly, and STILL never managed to completely stop the cogs from turning, so I don't look down on Pac for not being able to KO the guy. Provo punches like a middleweight and couldn't do it.

    Brandon Rios, again, a guy with a great chin, who's never been stopped. The guy actually ENJOYS taking punishment, so I don't think it reflects badly on Pac that he didn't get the KO.

    You can make what you want of the Ariza situation, but until it can be proven, it's all just speculation, and I'd rather stick to the facts. Besides, I don't personally subscribe to the theory of a magic pill giving and taking away knock-out power. A punch is a transfer of weight more than a contraction of muscles.

    And AB would stand no chance if you ask me. No chance at all.
    I am sticking to the the facts. And the fact is since Ariza left, he hasn't shown the same explosiveness.

    I didn't say anything at all about drugs (though we should know by now not to put that past anyone). I'm just saying he was far more explosive with him there, starting with the David Diaz fight. Maybe it's the plyometrics. You can clearly see the wonders the regimen has done for Maidana.

    You're right about those guys. But before he faced those other guys he just beat near to death, they were known to be pretty sturdy guys themselves. In fact, I don't see his competition having gotten better since.

    And keep in mind -- Bradley HIMSELF has said that the same power isn't there. That he doesn't punch as hard as he did two years ago. That happened to be his last fight with Ariza. The first fight without Ariza, he was flatlined.

    Also, it's just not a stoppage; it's no knockdowns. And it's based on this fact that I see no evidence that Manny Pacquiao will stop the greatest defensive fighter in history in a few rounds.

    Regarding AB, you can think that and that's cool; we don't know. I didn't say whether he did or not; I just know that the people who run things aren't anxious to find out.

    I do think AB beats Marquez handily, potentially by stoppage.

  8. #18
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by Skibbz View Post

    And alluding to Ariza and the use of PED's is nothing but unfounded claims. When we receive facts with real evidence to prove them then we can really get into that debate. For now, it is nothing but a claim and there are a million more where they came from.
    I don't know where the PED thing came from. I simply said that his results with Ariza as opposed to without are dramatic. And you can see the effects he has had on Maidana.

    Based on him not knocking anyone cold in over FIVE years and especially how he looks now, I see no evidence he can KO the greatest defensive fighter in history in a few rounds. That's ludicrous.

    That said, at no point did I infuse PED use into the debate. I simply said that Ariza has been the one constant during his reign of terror. And that is true after all.

  9. #19
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    I am sticking to the the facts. And the fact is since Ariza left, he hasn't shown the same explosiveness.

    I didn't say anything at all about drugs (though we should know by now not to put that past anyone). I'm just saying he was far more explosive with him there, starting with the David Diaz fight. Maybe it's the plyometrics. You can clearly see the wonders the regimen has done for Maidana.

    You're right about those guys. But before he faced those other guys he just beat near to death, they were known to be pretty sturdy guys themselves. In fact, I don't see his competition having gotten better since.

    And keep in mind -- Bradley HIMSELF has said that the same power isn't there. That he doesn't punch as hard as he did two years ago. That happened to be his last fight with Ariza. The first fight without Ariza, he was flatlined.

    Also, it's just not a stoppage; it's no knockdowns. And it's based on this fact that I see no evidence that Manny Pacquiao will stop the greatest defensive fighter in history in a few rounds.

    Regarding AB, you can think that and that's cool; we don't know. I didn't say whether he did or not; I just know that the people who run things aren't anxious to find out.

    I do think AB beats Marquez handily, potentially by stoppage.
    I think you have forgotten that Pacquiao floored Marquez in their last fight.

    At which weight do you foresee Adrien "Problem Solved" Broner stopping the 40 year old veteran? I'm sorry but if Bradley couldn't do it, Alvarado couldn't do it and Pacquiao in his latest attempt couldn't do it although he put him down with a beautiful left hand.

    Adrien Broner, who in his last two performances has been C level at BEST, would certainly not do it. I fail to see why you rate this guy so highly.

  10. #20
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    Re: Arum in Danger of Mis-Handling Pacquiao

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    I don't know where the PED thing came from. I simply said that his results with Ariza as opposed to without are dramatic. And you can see the effects he has had on Maidana.

    Based on him not knocking anyone cold in over FIVE years and especially how he looks now, I see no evidence he can KO the greatest defensive fighter in history in a few rounds. That's ludicrous.

    That said, at no point did I infuse PED use into the debate. I simply said that Ariza has been the one constant during his reign of terror. And that is true after all.
    Well Maidana's always had a punch, and with his improved diet and training his ability to find the right punch has improved. Ariza is not a peddler in my opinion. He is a solid nutritionist, and nutrition is the key to success. PED's don't give you a punch, and will only worsen your power in any case. Once you stop taking PED's, your physicality will diminish at an astonishing fast pace and you will find it even harder to improve your conditioning than before. The natural world has all the answers a boxer needs.

    Ariza has not been the one constant in his 'reign of terror'. Pacquiao has been knocking guys out since he first punched a guy when he was small. He has a punch and there's no disputing it. Now he's more experienced he's less likely to leave himself vulnerable to a punch (he's no defensive wizard) so he will rather get you with 5 or 6 punches in good combinations than go for that one sledgehammer blow that pulverises his opponent.. Should it land. should he miss he leaves himself open. Too many times in his career he has left himself open and been caught. He has simply learned from his mistakes and improved himself as a fighter.

    KO's don't determine anything, taking home the W is all that matters.

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