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Thread: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

  1. #11
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skibbz View Post
    You can flap and tap in the amateurs, but not in the pro's. Algieri was doing little or no damage to Ruslan. He's been marked up worse in sparring.

    All those boxers that use their legs and stick and move, they still have to stick their punches. It's like a sword fight, you don't just lightly graze your opponent, you have to stab him. If you're not stabbing him you're not winning.
    I'd sooner score a round by who does the most damage, rather than who lands the most shots.

    Quality over quantity as they say.

    The old adage of 'who would you rather be' in the round certainly gives us Provodnikov as the victor.

  2. #12
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Scoring a fight as we all know can be very subjective. I said after the Provodnikov-Algieri fight which has prompted this discussion that this particular fight was the most difficult fight for me to score in recent memory.

    The most important criteria in scoring a round in my opinion is "clean effective punching." By effective punching meaning the harder cleaner shots carry more weight than punches that are not as crisp or hard.

    However, judging this in some cases is not always easy. As Grey mentioned to start, how many lighter punches will be enough to overcome bigger shots landed in that particular round? Well that depends on many factors and there is no formula for this nor will there ever be one. For one, how light are the light punches? That can differ, the harder and cleaner the shot the more weight that shot will carry.

    It also come down to me to an adage that Max Kellerman often uses (Grey mentioned earlier also) and that is "Who would you rather be in that round?"

    When I say this, I don't mean look at the guy with an eye closing from damage sustained earlier and take that into account. Absolutely not, as each round is scored on the merits of what happened in those three minutes.

    Can a big shot landed in a round overcome several crisp but lighter punches? Yes but how big was that big shot and how light were those light punches? I will put more scoring emphasis if that big shot visibly hurt the fighter and less if it did not hurt the fighter. Yes fighters can hide when they are hurt but if they are hurt bad enough it will show.

    All this said, from my experience in the sport seemingly over 90% of the time we as fans (mind you fans, not judges) seem to know who won or lost a particular fight. A lot of it is common sense and a lot of it comes down to what I mentioned earlier that we know who carried the action in a particular round and who you'd rather be in that round.

    However, there are fights that we can disagree on because of the natural subjectivity of the sport. This happens from my account less than 10% of the time but causes for fierce debate.

    Think about it, how many fights this year have we watched that as fans we were mostly not in unisom as to whom won. The couple off the top of my head I can think of in nearly six months are Garcia-Herrera and Provodnikov-Algieri (maybe Allakhverdiev-Vargas as well).

    For the record, for those three fights I had Garcia-Herrera a draw (114-114 I believe), Provodnikov-Algieri for Provodnikov (115-112, had an even round which I almost never due which shows how difficult this was to score) and Allakhverdiev-Vargas for Allakhverdiev (116-112)

    As to the statements on Compubox, my view on that is I almost always ignore those stats. As mentioned on this thread, there is a human element to that (what constitutes landed and not landed in the matter of a split second to decide) and it does not measure the actual impact of the punches.

  3. #13
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by oubobcat View Post
    Scoring a fight as we all know can be very subjective. I said after the Provodnikov-Algieri fight which has prompted this discussion that this particular fight was the most difficult fight for me to score in recent memory.

    The most important criteria in scoring a round in my opinion is "clean effective punching." By effective punching meaning the harder cleaner shots carry more weight than punches that are not as crisp or hard.

    However, judging this in some cases is not always easy. As Grey mentioned to start, how many lighter punches will be enough to overcome bigger shots landed in that particular round? Well that depends on many factors and there is no formula for this nor will there ever be one. For one, how light are the light punches? That can differ, the harder and cleaner the shot the more weight that shot will carry.

    It also come down to me to an adage that Max Kellerman often uses (Grey mentioned earlier also) and that is "Who would you rather be in that round?"

    When I say this, I don't mean look at the guy with an eye closing from damage sustained earlier and take that into account. Absolutely not, as each round is scored on the merits of what happened in those three minutes.

    Can a big shot landed in a round overcome several crisp but lighter punches? Yes but how big was that big shot and how light were those light punches? I will put more scoring emphasis if that big shot visibly hurt the fighter and less if it did not hurt the fighter. Yes fighters can hide when they are hurt but if they are hurt bad enough it will show.

    All this said, from my experience in the sport seemingly over 90% of the time we as fans (mind you fans, not judges) seem to know who won or lost a particular fight. A lot of it is common sense and a lot of it comes down to what I mentioned earlier that we know who carried the action in a particular round and who you'd rather be in that round.

    However, there are fights that we can disagree on because of the natural subjectivity of the sport. This happens from my account less than 10% of the time but causes for fierce debate.

    Think about it, how many fights this year have we watched that as fans we were mostly not in unisom as to whom won. The couple off the top of my head I can think of in nearly six months are Garcia-Herrera and Provodnikov-Algieri (maybe Allakhverdiev-Vargas as well).

    For the record, for those three fights I had Garcia-Herrera a draw (114-114 I believe), Provodnikov-Algieri for Provodnikov (115-112, had an even round which I almost never due which shows how difficult this was to score) and Allakhverdiev-Vargas for Allakhverdiev (116-112)

    As to the statements on Compubox, my view on that is I almost always ignore those stats. As mentioned on this thread, there is a human element to that (what constitutes landed and not landed in the matter of a split second to decide) and it does not measure the actual impact of the punches.
    We as fans have the benefit of being able to rewatch the fight, and of not being swayed by the crowd or home loyalties (at least I hope so).

    54% of the boxing press scored the fight in favour of Provodnikov, with the average score being 114-112 in favour of the champion.

  4. #14
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    I just confirmed that Chris Algieri will be on my show right at the top today at 6:00pm (ET). I am going to ask him about a rematch v Ruslan.

    We go live around the world at 6:00 on SiriusXM channel 92. Hope those of you with SiriusXM can listen in.

    -Randy G.

  5. #15
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    I just confirmed that Chris Algieri will be on my show right at the top today at 6:00pm (ET). I am going to ask him about a rematch v Ruslan.

    We go live around the world at 6:00 on SiriusXM channel 92. Hope those of you with SiriusXM can listen in.

    -Randy G.
    It'll be great having him on your show. Wish the new world champ all the best from me and the rest of us at TSS- he can't control the scores after all, he just put on a great display of heart and boxing ability.

  6. #16
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreyman View Post
    It'll be great having him on your show. Wish the new world champ all the best from me and the rest of us at TSS- he can't control the scores after all, he just put on a great display of heart and boxing ability.
    Congratulate him from all of us fans and writers on TSS! He showed incredible heart to continue through the pressure and he is a phenomenal athlete with real intelligence which all showed in his fight with Ruslan. If I could call in from the UK I would, wish him all the best.

  7. #17
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Come on, Radam. I'm not gonna' put anybody in Willie Pep's class. The guy was amazing. Does that mean if all the guys out there who can box but can't punch have to box like Pep, otherwise they have no shot at winning? Nobody boxes like Pep. Nobody.

    Many guys have to "slap and tap." If the leather lands, it scores. The bigger puncher should not be given the edge, just because he entered the ring as the heavier banger.

    I doubt anybody is gonna' change their mind on the outcome of Algieri v Provodnikov. However, maybe some will start looking at each round with a different point of view.

    -Randy G.

  8. #18
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    Re: Weight vs Work - How do you score a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    Come on, Radam. I'm not gonna' put anybody in Willie Pep's class. The guy was amazing. Does that mean if all the guys out there who can box but can't punch have to box like Pep, otherwise they have no shot at winning? Nobody boxes like Pep. Nobody.

    Many guys have to "slap and tap." If the leather lands, it scores. The bigger puncher should not be given the edge, just because he entered the ring as the heavier banger.

    I doubt anybody is gonna' change their mind on the outcome of Algieri v Provodnikov. However, maybe some will start looking at each round with a different point of view.

    -Randy G.
    Nanananana da nanana! I'm from the philosophy of the old skool. An original boksing fool. You have to cause hurt. A mosquito has a bytch sting. But its sting can be more irritating and deadly than getting rammed by a billy goat.

    In this seedy sport of us fanantics, it about da hurt, not da type of hit.

    Hurt bitnezz, my man, ALL DAY! I ain't hatin' C-Al. He is a big-hearted fighta,' not a judge.

    I might holla at him at 6 in da morning from the P-Islands. But I ain't tellin.' Holla!

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