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Thread: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

  1. #1

    Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    We are all awaiting the Sergio-Cotto fight and most everyone that posts on this site has weighed in on it. As I read articles about the fight, you hear alot about how Cotto enjoys camp with Freddie and that Freddie is teaching him tons of things that are going to help him win this fight. It appears that Freddie is bringing a new element to Cotto that we may not have seen before or at the very minimum revitalizing an old one.

    With that in mind, it got me wondering, how much can a trainer really do for a fighter? Assuming that you have a willing student in the fighter and a competent trainer, my answer would be very complex which kindled my attraction to this question. I believe a trainer cannot make a bad fighter good but I do think he can ruin a good fighter. I also believe that a great trainer can make a good fighter great.

    So TSS Universe, especially those of you that have laced up the gloves, what say you? To be a great fighter, do you need a great trainer?

  2. #2
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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    I'm trying to think of one great boxer, who didn't have a similar, clicking trainer. Chemistry is the key. It doesn't matter how great a boxer or trainer is, it is the chemistry for the situation.

    A lot of great trainers just cannot click or even trick some fighters into greatness. The game has a lot of pricks and d¡¢ks. And they couldn't lay bricks.

    Bottom line of my opinion, NO! NO! Different strokes for different folks. Maybe greatness is innate. You cannot make it or fake it. It has to be there and you need the right chemistry to bring it out. Holla!
    Last edited by Radam G; 05-22-2014 at 05:09 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    First of all, I have never laced up the gloves. So this is just my observation.

    I think it is necessary to have a good trainer. And there are a lot of good trainers in the sport. There are also some trainers who can be categorized as great and those trainers are few and far between. So is it necessary for a great fighter to be teamed with a great trainer? No. But that great fighter almost always has a good trainer.

    Its not necessary to have a great trainer but it sure helps. Felix Trinidad was trained by his dad most his career. Not a great trainer by most standards but Trinidad still had a pretty darn good Hall of Fame career. Roy Jones was trained by Alton Merkerson. Merkerson wouldn't be classified as great (solid, not great) but Jones' career was very successful nonetheless.

    Great trainers can though make good fighters into great ones.

    Lennox Lewis was a good fighter until he teamed with Emanuel Steward. He became a great heavyweight and a different fighter with Steward in his corner. The passive Lewis was gone and a more aggressive Lewis appeared.

    Wladimir Klitschko was a ranked heavyweight who fell short in big fights. He teamed with Steward and after a roadblock Steward got through to him and refined him into a long time heavyweight champion.

    When you look at the top fighters today, not all have great trainers. But most have good ones.

    Beibut Shumenov really had no trainer and we saw how well that worked when he faced Bernard Hopkins last month. Mike Tyson's career went severely downhill went he parted ways with Kevin Rooney.

    A great trainer isn't always needed by a great fighter. Great trainers though can in some instances turn good fighters into great ones. At the very least, a competent trainer is needed for almost any successful prizefighter.

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    Quote Originally Posted by oubobcat View Post
    First of all, I have never laced up the gloves. So this is just my observation.

    I think it is necessary to have a good trainer. And there are a lot of good trainers in the sport. There are also some trainers who can be categorized as great and those trainers are few and far between. So is it necessary for a great fighter to be teamed with a great trainer? No. But that great fighter almost always has a good trainer.

    Its not necessary to have a great trainer but it sure helps. Felix Trinidad was trained by his dad most his career. Not a great trainer by most standards but Trinidad still had a pretty darn good Hall of Fame career. Roy Jones was trained by Alton Merkerson. Merkerson wouldn't be classified as great (solid, not great) but Jones' career was very successful nonetheless.

    Great trainers can though make good fighters into great ones.

    Lennox Lewis was a good fighter until he teamed with Emanuel Steward. He became a great heavyweight and a different fighter with Steward in his corner. The passive Lewis was gone and a more aggressive Lewis appeared.

    Wladimir Klitschko was a ranked heavyweight who fell short in big fights. He teamed with Steward and after a roadblock Steward got through to him and refined him into a long time heavyweight champion.

    When you look at the top fighters today, not all have great trainers. But most have good ones.

    Beibut Shumenov really had no trainer and we saw how well that worked when he faced Bernard Hopkins last month. Mike Tyson's career went severely downhill went he parted ways with Kevin Rooney.

    A great trainer isn't always needed by a great fighter. Great trainers though can in some instances turn good fighters into great ones. At the very least, a competent trainer is needed for almost any successful prizefighter.
    Very good explaining. A great boxer doesn't necessary needs a great trainer to shine. But an adequate boxers can be turned into a great one by a great trainer. And of great boxers staying nearly a whole career with great trainers 95 percent of the time become ATG greats.

    In the five percent that didn't need to do so were Roberto Duran, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and Alexis Augello [name misspelled], to name a few. Holla!

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    In a dead even fight, the corner is the difference. Don't let anybody tell you any different.

    Also, I've already shared the story in this space so I won't repeat it, but just prior to finding out how tough Teddy Atlas really was, I had asked some questions and made a statement or two, that I'm now guessing Teddy took offense to. But at the end of a four hour interview, as I was climbing the stairs to leave Teddy said, 'You were right, but I took a lot of 6's and made them 8's.' Remains one of my favorite quotes in all of boxing.

    In a nutshell, not every guy has the ability to be a world class fighter. Doesn't matter how hard the fighter is willing to train, how good a shot they take. There are just so many ingredients that go into the boxing soup that if you leave any combination of them out, the fighter just isn't as good as he should be.

    Sixes to eights. You can't humanly do more than that.

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    Yes, Radam, it is imperative to have at least a good trainer in order to be able to advance in this sport. However, a good--or even a great--trainer doesn't make for greatness in a fighter. How many turkeys did the great Ray Arcel work the corner for? If needing a great trainer is all that it takes to make a great fighter then Riddick Bowe and others like him would have had Hall of Fame careers.

    Speaking of Riddick Bowe, do you remember what Hall-of-Fame trainer worked with him for a long time? How about Eddie Futch! Although he was able to teach Riddick a lot about boxing, he never could teach him about dieting and what foods to eat and what foods to keep away from.

    Sorry to say it, but Angelo Dundee wasn't a great trainer. His worth was more as a motivational and astute cornerman ("You're blowin' it, son!") than a pad-wearing, punch-absorbing trainer.

    Hey, I could have trained Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali. Their greatness came from a higher power, not from some mere mortal in the gym shouting instructions.

    -Randy G.

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    But Riddick Bowe did have a Hall-of-Fame career.

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    Yes, Radam, it is imperative to have at least a good trainer in order to be able to advance in this sport. However, a good--or even a great--trainer doesn't make for greatness in a fighter. How many turkeys did the great Ray Arcel work the corner for? If needing a great trainer is all that it takes to make a great fighter then Riddick Bowe and others like him would have had Hall of Fame careers.

    Speaking of Riddick Bowe, do you remember what Hall-of-Fame trainer worked with him for a long time? How about Eddie Futch! Although he was able to teach Riddick a lot about boxing, he never could teach him about dieting and what foods to eat and what foods to keep away from.

    Sorry to say it, but Angelo Dundee wasn't a great trainer. His worth was more as a motivational and astute cornerman ("You're blowin' it, son!") than a pad-wearing, punch-absorbing trainer.

    Hey, I could have trained Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali. Their greatness came from a higher power, not from some mere mortal in the gym shouting instructions.

    -Randy G.
    We are riding in different dimensions. Sugar Ray Leonard's and Muhammad Ali's greatness were helped by a voice in their ears telling to them what to do, and how to do it at the right time, and inspiring them that they could do it.

    The late, great Angie Dundee is indeed the GBGOAT. He took fighters who were going nowhere and/or damaged goods and made them into champions of champions with his words and super witty knowledge of how to get the greatest fighting ability out of them that they didn't even know that they had.

    Every single trainer, including the late, greats Eddie Futch, Manny Steward, Gil Glancy, Dick Sadler, Champ Channey and Ray Arcel all called and knew and said that GBGOAT Dundee was "GREAT TO DA MAXIMUM."

    To each his own opinion of who's great and who's not. I'm taking the words and wisdom of those who I've named above and many others, who are behind those Pearly Gates above. Holla!
    Last edited by Radam G; 05-23-2014 at 02:02 AM.

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radam G View Post
    I'm trying to think of one great boxer, who didn't have a similar, clicking trainer. Chemistry is the key. It doesn't matter how great a boxer or trainer is, it is the chemistry for the situation.

    A lot of great trainers just cannot click or even trick some fighters into greatness. The game has a lot of pricks and d¡¢ks. And they couldn't lay bricks.

    Bottom line of my opinion, NO! NO! Different strokes for different folks. Maybe greatness is innate. You cannot make it or fake it. It has to be there and you need the right chemistry to bring it out. Holla!
    Chemistry is the recipe to get the greatness out of a fighter. And again, you cannot "click or trick some fighters into (full) greatness" of their potential.

    Riddick Bowe, Donald Curry, Tony Tubbs and James Toney are a few that comes to mind. They had a hand-to-mouth disease of too much bad foods and sugar drinks.

    Pinklin Thomas, Tony Tucker and Aaron Pryor and Leon Spinks have their struggles with drugging and partying.

    And the list goes on and on with other roadblocks and crooked ¢o¢ks. Holla!

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    Re: Is a great trainer mandatory for a great fighter?

    @Radam. So now you're commenting on your own posts? Has it slowed down that much in here? But it's good you're practicing because if it comes to you having to hold down the fort again like in the past, you'll be in shape. (Just don't argue with yourself or I'll have to come to the Philippines to rescue you).

    ; )

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