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Thread: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

  1. #1

    The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    One of the many things that fuels any sport is rivalries. Be it Yankees-Red Sox, Cowboys-Redskins, Federer-Nadal, Heat-Pacers, or whatever, rivalries are often capable of uplifting an entire sport. Boxing is no different and we have seen many throughout the years that have probably had us off of the couch more than once and had us talking about it for sometime years on end. With that in mind and a little research I submit that the Marquez-Pac rivalry has been the best in boxing ever, even without a fifth romp. No disrespect to Ali-Frazier, SRR-Lamotta, Langford-Wills,Gatti-Ward, Arizmendi-Armstrong, and a few others. Here is why:

    1. A little known fact is that it almost didn't happen. The ref for the fight said that after the third knockdown he considered stopping the fight. He said that Marquez's nose looked like a mushroom and he was almost sure that it was broken. However, he said that Marquez's eyes were clear so he let Juan continue. If the rep stops that fight, Marquez's and Manny's careers are drastically different.

    2. Controversy in each fight. The first 3 fights you have controversy in the decisions. All of them were ridiculously close. You can are everything from 3-0 for each fighter to 1-1-1 to 0-3. In the fourth fight, although not as big a controversy, the cloud of a behemoth Marquez with Angel Heredia around has made alot of people raise an eye. Add that to the fact that Marquez has landed that punch several times before and it never cleaned anyone's clock like that one did.

    3. All fights took place in or near their respective primes. Some rivalries in our sport lost their luster towards the end because one or both of the combatants had faded in their ability.

    4. In three of the four fights, there was a strap on the line.

    5. Genuine dislike. I think anytime you have some hatred you get a better rivalry. I think there is more dislike from Marquez's side, but nonetheless some from both fighters.


    I have a few other reasons but I have found that the collective intelligence on this site often explains things better than I do so I will leave that info for others to bring up. So TSS, has the Doc provided a misdiagnosis or is he spot on? What say you?

  2. #2
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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    For boxing aficionados of this generation, yes this is the greatest rivalry. Gatti-Ward and Vazquez-Marquez come close but can't top the Pacquiao-Marquez rivalry.

    Best ever, I have to disagree.

    Ali-Frazier, for example, the heavyweight championship of the world (most coveted prize in all of sports) was on the line twice. Not a belt but the World Championship. There was hatred between the two and they produced not only memorable fights but memorable events.

    Zale-Graziano was a tremendous rivalry. Three times they fought for the World Middleweight title and two of them were fights of the year. I think the reason this isn't as talked about as others is that if I am not mistaken film does not exist of their first two fights which were by all reports the best. For sustained back and forth action, ebb and flow, this may be the greatest of all time.

    I do see a mention above of Sam Langford. His record is amazing and he had about half a dozen all time rivalries on his own. Any of which I would say are greater than Pacquiao-Marquez. Langford has a 17 (Wills), 15, 14, 12, etc fight rivalries on his resume alone.

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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    The MP vs JM rivalry is up there with the best but I have other ones above it.
    Off the top of my head
    Ward vs Gatti
    Barrera vs Morales
    Corrales vs Castillo
    Graziano vs Zale
    Barney Ross vs Jimmy Mclarnin
    Bowe vs Holyfield
    Pac vs Morales was great too.

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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!


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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    There can be no doubt that the rivalry existing between Manny and Manuel is one that will remembered for many years to come. Rarely in the modern era (or boxing in general) do two fighters do battle for 4 times and there is still debate as to which of the two is better. Now there is talk of a fifth fight as the decider... Is it the best rivalry ever..? That's debatable because there have been some incredible rivalries that can pip this one in my opinion..

    Ali Frazier is one for sure. Ward Gatti is there by default. Pryor Arguello is another which was fantastic. Mitchell Tszyu is another favourite of mine, I could watch both fights endlessly.

    However, the one rivalry I think which beats Pacquiao Marquez would have to be Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank. These days they're on better terms with eachother, but back in the days they were fighting (and for many years afterwards) each man considered the other his arch nemisis. The rivarly was so incredibly great that a TV show was created where they pitted each fighter against eachother in a series of 'gladiator style' trials, culminating in a 3 round fight at the end.

    Here's a vid of it if anyone's interested and has the time. It's been aptly named "Eubank Benn III". Enjoy.


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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    Surely the best of our generation, no doubt about that, though I think that to call it the best ever is to overlook several other great boxing rivalries. A great rivalry should be judged by several things in my opinion: animosity between the fighters first and foremost, similarity in skill, and ideally disparity in style.

    I agree with Benn Eubank as a great rivalry- if ever there was one that captured the competitive spirit of the game for me, it was this. (And it ticks all my boxes nicely haha)

    You could even cite Froch Groves- how often do you see a rivalry immediately sell out 80 THOUSAND tickets. One of the fighters didn't even have a promoter until this week!

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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    Historically, we'd be here a long time listing them before we can even consider ranking them. There has been so many great ones that I wouldn't be real quick to pencil it to close to the top slot. One box you can check off, (albeit not necessary for a great rivalry) is it pitted two of the very best of all time. The one we should be discussing is the Mayweather vs Pacquaio rivalry, that should be readying itself for the third (fourth?) go round about now. If that one played out as it looks on paper, this generation of fighters would have had a bonafide grade A, Top in Class, Doesn't get any better this, certified status. Even if they have three or four the rest of the way it would be deeply tarnished, like that should be our problem.

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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    I remember a sit-down on TV with Benn and Eubank.

    Reporter: "Do you hate eachother?"

    Eubank: "I necessarily don't hate him..."

    Benn: "I personally hate the man."

    Reporter: "You hate him?" (if my memory serves me right)

    Benn, nodding: "I personally hate the man."

    That was Benn, thru and thru. One of my favourite fighters of the modern era.

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    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    I agree with thegreyman that Marquez-Pacquiao (I like listing the winner of the last battle first) is the "best rivalry of our generation." I'd love to see a fifth fight...and if it's as good as all the others, yet a sixth.

    While Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Frazier was an incredible series, so was Arturo Gatti v Micky Ward, Riddick Bowe v Evander Holyfield & Barney Ross v Jimmy McLarnin.

    Let's not forget the incomparable Sugar Ray Robinson's bouts against Jake LaMotta from 1942-1951. Two of those bouts took place in a span of three weeks in the Winter of 1943. In fact, starting with their first bout in 1942, they fought three times in the span of 4 1/2 months...and the other three over the next eight years.

    Also, in their first bout, with the weigh-in on the day of the bout, Robinson weighed 145, while LaMotta weighed 157 3/4. Robby won that bout by decision.

    All four of the Martinez-Pacquiao bouts were thrillers. Sure, let's keep 'em going. A fifth battle may be the most exciting one of all.

    -Randy G.

  10. #10

    Re: The Doc's Diagnosis.....................Pac-Marquez Rivalry....Best Ever?!

    I see alot of people throwing out Al-Frazier as an all time great but I still think Marquez-Pac is better in the ring. I think Ali-Frazier possessed more entertainment value and social significance but if you actually watch the fights, the winner was pretty evident in all three in my opinion. In three of the four Marquez-Pac fights, there is no clear cut winner which inches it ahead for me.

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