English Español
Advertisement
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43

Thread: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South Beach
    Posts
    3,312

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Miguel Cotto has nothing for Martinez, I assure you. I guarantee you!

    Technically, Cotto is experienced and cagey enough to avoid a complete blowout.

    Stylistically, he couldn't have picked a worse foe.

    Pacquiao smoked him, Trout outboxed him. Martinez is like a hybrid of the two.

    That's just what it is.

    Make no mistake about it: his handlers are throwing him in there with Maravilla for these reasons and these reasons alone -- in this order:

    1) a great payday
    2) a built-in excuse in the likely event of a defeat that keeps his market value intact and secures a future $10m with Saul Alvarez
    3) Martinez' injuries and potential slippage
    4) a small chance at history

    Neither reason has anything to do with this ridiculous warrior reputation Cotto has somehow gotten over the years compared to other guys who deserve it just as much.

    Just because a guy's been bruised, bloodied and battered doesn't make him any more of a fighter.

    Cotto is no more of a "warrior" than Andre Ward.

    He's a prizefighter -- and a pompous one at that, perhaps the most entitled fighter in the game today.

    (Remember how Adrien Broner got crapped on because he left the ring after losing to Maidana? Yet when veteran Cotto immaturely did the same on separate occasions and skipped press conferences he was given a pass. "But Cotto's a proud warrior!" Go figure.)

    What we're seeing here is a masterful career management job by a master manager in Gaby P.

    I applaud Team Cotto as businessmen for a) managing Cotto's career masterfully, b) keeping him Swiss amidst a boxing world war, and c) giving him an excuse-out in a mismatch that, at best, is a quest to remain standing after 12 rounds of punishment.

    A victory would be a surprise to even the most optimistic Cotto camper.

    That said, as a follower, I hope Cotto wins. After being robbed and cheated twice, Cotto deserves the accolade as well as the $15m+ September payday that awaits.

    And while he's a prizefighter just like everyone else, you can always count on Cotto to leave it all in the ring.

  2. #12
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Home of the Buckeyes
    Posts
    4,545

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Wow Shadow... You along with the rest of the TSS may certainly be correct about Cottos chances against Martinez....but surely Cotto deserves a better appraisal?. Cottos middle name is "guts".
    Well at least it was pre-Margarito.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South Beach
    Posts
    3,312

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    Wow Shadow... You along with the rest of the TSS may certainly be correct about Cottos chances against Martinez....but surely Cotto deserves a better appraisal?. Cottos middle name is "guts".
    Well at least it was pre-Margarito.
    I'm just keeping it real, Suge. Every fighter has guts. It takes major cojones to go through boxing training, let alone get in the ring.

    I like him and I hope he wins. I'm giving him mad props! On a personal level, I truly empathize, no, I actually feel really, really bad for him that he had to get cheated and robbed of his confidence through what he had to suffer. (Though I'm sure the paydays helped him lick his wounds a bit.)

    Not saying he's not a gritty, tough, determined and accomplished fighter, because he is!

    I just don't dig how he profits from an image others deserve just as much -- especially not when it comes to the reason for this fight. Those reasons listed are the reasons why he's fighting Sergio Martinez. Not because he's a "warrior."

    This is not a dig on Cotto because he has earned respect. This is more about the perception. Does a fighter really need to take a thrashing before he can get respect?

    I'm curious, what exactly has he done, other than bleed all over the place, that makes him any more of a warrior than, say, Juan Manuel Marquez, Adrien Broner, Floyd Mayweather or Guillermo Rigondeaux?

    I remember a pre-Money Floyd calling out every prizefighter in sight. Remember when big arse, non-commercial Winky Wright was avoided at 154? Floyd at lightweight was calling him out and trying to push for a fight with him.

    To put it in perspective, he's challenging for the middleweight championship at 158-159 (which is cool, the battle starts long before the first bell -- Art of War 101) but he walks around at 170+ ripped w/ less than 10% bodyfat anyway.

    Is that really more impressive than lifelong bantamweight Rigondeaux taking on guys who outweigh him by 15 to 20 pounds every night? Abner Mares and Nonito Donaire walk around at the same weight as Mayweather. Let's keep it real here.

    People say he takes on the best challenges, why, because he lost? Because of his style? He has maneuvered just as adroitly in the matchmaking department as any prizefighting attraction in recent years.

    "Why would I fight Martinez? What is in it for Miguel?" Cotto asked dismissively when Martinez was begging for that Cotto bread a few years ago. "Is there any money in that fight? No!"

    And good for him!

    To be quite frank, Canelo is way more of pridefighter than Cotto is and that's not even up for debate. He's just stuck with that "hype job" tag. Canelo's a prideful macho man. Alas, he calls for avoided fighters when he can really fight anyone he wants.

    Canelo is a bit of a fool in that regard, honestly. Cotto is smart.

    He's smart because he's surrounded himself with some good people. He keeps it in the family and he's a loyal dude. Cotto is really a cool cat, man.

    Like I said, I keep it 100% real. Just because I think he gets smoked doesn't mean I dislike or discredit him.

    If Maravilla twists both ankles and knees by, say, the fifth round and is unable to continue, I can see Cotto winning a technical decision 3-2 if he jumps to an early lead.

    (If that happens, Cotto should just take the W and run like his boricua brother Danny Garcia. No rematch. Go straight for September.)

    Other than that, Martinez is just as good on the inside, better on the outside, stronger, faster, more powerful, quicker, taller and fights from a southpaw stance. All of these things trouble Cotto.

    Martinez -- people musta forgot! -- has been disfiguring people's faces badly and knocking them down with grazing punches. Cotto bruises easily and has a less than stellar chin. (I've seen a 150+ pound Cotto rocked by a non-puncher weighing 138 on fight night.)

    While the Argentinian is aging and not particularly gracefully, old joints and adulation aside, these things just do not bode well for Cotto in a matchup with Maravilla Martinez.
    Last edited by The Shadow; 05-14-2014 at 01:01 PM.

  4. #14
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Home of the Buckeyes
    Posts
    4,545

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    I'm just keeping it real, Suge. Every fighter has guts. It takes major cojones to go through boxing training, let alone get in the ring.

    I like him and I hope he wins. I'm giving him mad props! On a personal level, I truly empathize, no, I actually feel really, really bad for him that he had to get cheated and robbed of his confidence through what he had to suffer. (Though I'm sure the paydays helped him lick his wounds a bit.)

    Not saying he's not a gritty, tough, determined and accomplished fighter, because he is!

    I just don't dig how he profits from an image others deserve just as much -- especially not when it comes to the reason for this fight. Those reasons listed are the reasons why he's fighting Sergio Martinez. Not because he's a "warrior."

    This is not a dig on Cotto because he has earned respect. This is more about the perception. Does a fighter really need to take a thrashing before he can get respect?

    I'm curious, what exactly has he done, other than bleed all over the place, that makes him any more of a warrior than, say, Juan Manuel Marquez, Adrien Broner, Floyd Mayweather or Guillermo Rigondeaux?

    I remember a pre-Money Floyd calling out every prizefighter in sight. Remember when big arse, non-commercial Winky Wright was avoided at 154? Floyd at lightweight was calling him out and trying to push for a fight with him.

    To put it in perspective, he's challenging for the middleweight championship at 158-159 (which is cool, the battle starts long before the first bell -- Art of War 101) but he walks around at 170+ ripped w/ less than 10% bodyfat anyway.

    Is that really more impressive than lifelong bantamweight Rigondeaux taking on guys who outweigh him by 15 to 20 pounds every night? Abner Mares and Nonito Donaire walk around at the same weight as Mayweather. Let's keep it real here.

    People say he takes on the best challenges, why, because he lost? Because of his style? He has maneuvered just as adroitly in the matchmaking department as any prizefighting attraction in recent years.

    "Why would I fight Martinez? What is in it for Miguel?" Cotto asked dismissively when Martinez was begging for that Cotto bread a few years ago. "Is there any money in that fight? No!"

    And good for him!

    To be quite frank, Canelo is way more of pridefighter than Cotto is and that's not even up for debate. He's just stuck with that "hype job" tag. Canelo's a prideful macho man. Alas, he calls for avoided fighters when he can really fight anyone he wants.

    Canelo is a bit of a fool in that regard, honestly. Cotto is smart.

    He's smart because he's surrounded himself with some good people. He keeps it in the family and he's a loyal dude. Cotto is really a cool cat, man.

    Like I said, I keep it 100% real. Just because I think he gets smoked doesn't mean I dislike or discredit him.

    If Maravilla twists both ankles and knees by, say, the fifth round and is unable to continue, I can see Cotto winning a technical decision 3-2 if he jumps to an early lead.

    (If that happens, Cotto should just take the W and run like his boricua brother Danny Garcia. No rematch. Go straight for September.)

    Other than that, Martinez is just as good on the inside, better on the outside, stronger, faster, more powerful, quicker, taller and fights from a southpaw stance. All of these things trouble Cotto.

    Martinez -- people musta forgot! -- has been disfiguring people's faces badly and knocking them down with grazing punches. Cotto bruises easily and has a less than stellar chin. (I've seen a 150+ pound Cotto rocked by a non-puncher weighing 138 on fight night.)

    While the Argentinian is aging and not particularly gracefully, old joints and adulation aside, these things just do not bode well for Cotto in a matchup with Maravilla Martinez.
    OK Shadow... I guess that's a no.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    297

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    I'm curious, what exactly has he done, other than bleed all over the place, that makes him any more of a warrior than, say, Juan Manuel Marquez, Adrien Broner, Floyd Mayweather or Guillermo Rigondeaux?
    It's more what he hasn't done. He hasn't whined. He's been quiet, stubborn, classy - and never, ever (as far as I've known) whined about this and that. In that regard, he's been a throwback to the good old days - or at least the perception of the good old days.

    No matter the Murray fight, Martinez has lost quite a number of steps. This fight is against time. If he can cut Cotto open relatively early, it's his for the taking. If not, no way his movement will be anything near what it has been come the later rounds - and Cotto will at least have an opportunity to come close and do harm. I'm giving him a definitive shot at what some would call an upset, and I'll call a pretty even match-up.

    Martinez have relied heavily on rhythm and geometry throughout his good years, and both factors have depended upon intensity and stamina. With lesser of both, he's in trouble.

  6. #16

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    I'm just keeping it real, Suge. Every fighter has guts. It takes major cojones to go through boxing training, let alone get in the ring.

    I like him and I hope he wins. I'm giving him mad props! On a personal level, I truly empathize, no, I actually feel really, really bad for him that he had to get cheated and robbed of his confidence through what he had to suffer. (Though I'm sure the paydays helped him lick his wounds a bit.)

    Not saying he's not a gritty, tough, determined and accomplished fighter, because he is!

    I just don't dig how he profits from an image others deserve just as much -- especially not when it comes to the reason for this fight. Those reasons listed are the reasons why he's fighting Sergio Martinez. Not because he's a "warrior."

    This is not a dig on Cotto because he has earned respect. This is more about the perception. Does a fighter really need to take a thrashing before he can get respect?

    I'm curious, what exactly has he done, other than bleed all over the place, that makes him any more of a warrior than, say, Juan Manuel Marquez, Adrien Broner, Floyd Mayweather or Guillermo Rigondeaux?

    I remember a pre-Money Floyd calling out every prizefighter in sight. Remember when big arse, non-commercial Winky Wright was avoided at 154? Floyd at lightweight was calling him out and trying to push for a fight with him.

    To put it in perspective, he's challenging for the middleweight championship at 158-159 (which is cool, the battle starts long before the first bell -- Art of War 101) but he walks around at 170+ ripped w/ less than 10% bodyfat anyway.

    Is that really more impressive than lifelong bantamweight Rigondeaux taking on guys who outweigh him by 15 to 20 pounds every night? Abner Mares and Nonito Donaire walk around at the same weight as Mayweather. Let's keep it real here.

    People say he takes on the best challenges, why, because he lost? Because of his style? He has maneuvered just as adroitly in the matchmaking department as any prizefighting attraction in recent years.

    "Why would I fight Martinez? What is in it for Miguel?" Cotto asked dismissively when Martinez was begging for that Cotto bread a few years ago. "Is there any money in that fight? No!"

    And good for him!

    To be quite frank, Canelo is way more of pridefighter than Cotto is and that's not even up for debate. He's just stuck with that "hype job" tag. Canelo's a prideful macho man. Alas, he calls for avoided fighters when he can really fight anyone he wants.

    Canelo is a bit of a fool in that regard, honestly. Cotto is smart.

    He's smart because he's surrounded himself with some good people. He keeps it in the family and he's a loyal dude. Cotto is really a cool cat, man.

    Like I said, I keep it 100% real. Just because I think he gets smoked doesn't mean I dislike or discredit him.

    If Maravilla twists both ankles and knees by, say, the fifth round and is unable to continue, I can see Cotto winning a technical decision 3-2 if he jumps to an early lead.

    (If that happens, Cotto should just take the W and run like his boricua brother Danny Garcia. No rematch. Go straight for September.)

    Other than that, Martinez is just as good on the inside, better on the outside, stronger, faster, more powerful, quicker, taller and fights from a southpaw stance. All of these things trouble Cotto.

    Martinez -- people musta forgot! -- has been disfiguring people's faces badly and knocking them down with grazing punches. Cotto bruises easily and has a less than stellar chin. (I've seen a 150+ pound Cotto rocked by a non-puncher weighing 138 on fight night.)

    While the Argentinian is aging and not particularly gracefully, old joints and adulation aside, these things just do not bode well for Cotto in a matchup with Maravilla Martinez.

    I would simply say this. Find another fighter who fought a gauntlet this tough in a 5 year period in the last 15 years: Good Zab, Prime Shane, Prime and Cheating Margarito, Prime Clottey, Prime Pac, Maragrito rematch, Near Prime Floyd with a couple of B- fighters mixed in there. There may be a couple who have but not many. He has taken several of the toughest challenges. He has taken on several of the highest regarded fighters in their prime at their weight.

    As for him getting beat, I think this one may put him into retirement.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,608

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Doctor View Post
    I would simply say this. Find another fighter who fought a gauntlet this tough in a 5 year period in the last 15 years: Good Zab, Prime Shane, Prime and Cheating Margarito, Prime Clottey, Prime Pac, Maragrito rematch, Near Prime Floyd with a couple of B- fighters mixed in there. There may be a couple who have but not many. He has taken several of the toughest challenges. He has taken on several of the highest regarded fighters in their prime at their weight.

    As for him getting beat, I think this one may put him into retirement.
    I agree, Cotto fought some top notch opposition. I can not think of one fighter he has ducked.

  8. #18
    Advanced Users brownsugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Home of the Buckeyes
    Posts
    4,545

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    It's more what he hasn't done. He hasn't whined. He's been quiet, stubborn, classy - and never, ever (as far as I've known) whined about this and that. In that regard, he's been a throwback to the good old days - or at least the perception of the good old days.

    No matter the Murray fight, Martinez has lost quite a number of steps. This fight is against time. If he can cut Cotto open relatively early, it's his for the taking. If not, no way his movement will be anything near what it has been come the later rounds - and Cotto will at least have an opportunity to come close and do harm. I'm giving him a definitive shot at what some would call an upset, and I'll call a pretty even match-up.

    Martinez have relied heavily on rhythm and geometry throughout his good years, and both factors have depended upon intensity and stamina. With lesser of both, he's in trouble.
    Grimm ... Good Doc...Amayseng
    Thanks for expressing what I could not.
    (getting slapped around by the Shadow all morning can take its toll sometimes) lol..

    I think Maravella is using the angle that Cotto is a spoiled primadonna and he (Martinez)is tasked with humbling the man to either gain interest and manufacture a bad mood to use as fuel for the impending carnage or both.

    But Cotto has earned the right to call the shots... He played second fiddle to Pac and Floyd and was silent for the longest after getting bricked by Margarito.

    Cotto paid his dues and never complained... He's earned the right to play the A-hole after all these years(translated as: boss).

    I mean anybody who still shares his bed on road trips with his long time friend because they had to bunk up during the lean years has certainly not lost the common touch.

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    1,127

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Miguel Cotto has nothing for Martinez, I assure you. I guarantee you!

    Technically, Cotto is experienced and cagey enough to avoid a complete blowout.

    Stylistically, he couldn't have picked a worse foe.

    Pacquiao smoked him, Trout outboxed him. Martinez is like a hybrid of the two.

    That's just what it is.

    Make no mistake about it: his handlers are throwing him in there with Maravilla for these reasons and these reasons alone -- in this order:

    1) a great payday
    2) a built-in excuse in the likely event of a defeat that keeps his market value intact and secures a future $10m with Saul Alvarez
    3) Martinez' injuries and potential slippage
    4) a small chance at history

    Neither reason has anything to do with this ridiculous warrior reputation Cotto has somehow gotten over the years compared to other guys who deserve it just as much.

    Just because a guy's been bruised, bloodied and battered doesn't make him any more of a fighter.

    Cotto is no more of a "warrior" than Andre Ward.

    He's a prizefighter -- and a pompous one at that, perhaps the most entitled fighter in the game today.

    (Remember how Adrien Broner got crapped on because he left the ring after losing to Maidana? Yet when veteran Cotto immaturely did the same on separate occasions and skipped press conferences he was given a pass. "But Cotto's a proud warrior!" Go figure.)

    What we're seeing here is a masterful career management job by a master manager in Gaby P.

    I applaud Team Cotto as businessmen for a) managing Cotto's career masterfully, b) keeping him Swiss amidst a boxing world war, and c) giving him an excuse-out in a mismatch that, at best, is a quest to remain standing after 12 rounds of punishment.

    A victory would be a surprise to even the most optimistic Cotto camper.

    That said, as a follower, I hope Cotto wins. After being robbed and cheated twice, Cotto deserves the accolade as well as the $15m+ September payday that awaits.

    And while he's a prizefighter just like everyone else, you can always count on Cotto to leave it all in the ring.
    Cotto is taking a calculated risk. He and his management team are hoping that Martinez has gotten old quickly and that his speed/lateral movement will be that of an old fighter battling injuries. The thought being if Cotto wins the Middleweight Title, he not only makes history but his marketability is through the roof. Canelo, Mayweather, even Pacquiao fights are possible and could even cause a bidding war.

    I said above calculated risk. If Cotto should lose, that has also been taken into consideration as Shadow points out. A big factor I think is the Canelo fight will always be there and the money will always be good for that fight. So why from Cotto's perspective take that fight now when this opportunity has presented itself?

    Martinez did not look good his last time out. A lot of people jumped off the bandwagon. Cotto looked great the last time out. A lot of people jumped on his bandwagon.

    I did not jump off the Martines bandwagon not did I jump back on the Cotto bandwagon.

    Martinez fought in a driving rainstorm where he couldn't plant his feet and his lateral movement was affected. He also suffered a knee injury during the fight (probably never healed from the Chavez fight) and hurt his left hand. Martinez has taken time off to allow all those injuries to fully heal and his body recover. He will look much different when he is in the ring with Cotto.

    Cotto fought Delvin Rodriguez. Rodriguez is a tough aggressive fighter with decent skill but who has always fallen short against better opposition. He is not a slick fighter and does not carry a big punch. And defensively, Rodriguez is very challenged. The absolute perfect opponent for Cotto and Cotto did what he was supposed to do in that fight.

    We all know Cotto has problems with fighters with speed who can use the ring. Martinez does just that. Unless there is something we don't know about Martinez, I think he wins. Don't get me wrong, it will be a good action fight. I can't see how this can't be good. But in the end, Martinez's speed and lateral movement will be the difference.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    South Beach
    Posts
    3,312

    Re: SERGIO MARTINEZ Predicts KO of Cotto, Round Nine Or Earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    Grimm ... Good Doc...Amayseng
    Thanks for expressing what I could not.
    (getting slapped around by the Shadow all morning can take its toll sometimes) lol..

    I think Maravella is using the angle that Cotto is a spoiled primadonna and he (Martinez)is tasked with humbling the man to either gain interest and manufacture a bad mood to use as fuel for the impending carnage or both.

    But Cotto has earned the right to call the shots... He played second fiddle to Pac and Floyd and was silent for the longest after getting bricked by Margarito.

    Cotto paid his dues and never complained... He's earned the right to play the A-hole after all these years(translated as: boss).

    I mean anybody who still shares his bed on road trips with his long time friend because they had to bunk up during the lean years has certainly not lost the common touch.
    Sorry, Suge, didn't mean to come across that way, man! You know I love you, brother! Lol

    Perhaps I did a poor job of expressing what I meant. Perhaps my utter disregard for Cotto's chances made it sound worse than I meant it and for that I apologize.

    Forgive me, my heart is in the right place. I'll give it a second shot...

    Yes, Cotto has earned everything he's gotten. He's not a ducker or anything, he's a true prizefighter. He has fought the best, no doubt. And I'm rooting for him.

    And yes he has earned the right to be the #boss. I totally agree.

    All I'm saying is the adulation he gets relative to what others do not is quite gross, which isn't his fault. (Had this been Ward or Mayweather challenging him at this stage, they'd get butchered for (cherry) picking on an invalid.)

    This is a blockbuster fight carefully engineered by his all star team -- just the way it should be.

    Bobcat, it is actually as you said: a calculated risk with tremendous upside. Had he fought Canelo, he'd be done if he lost and essentially sold his career for $10m. They did the right thing.

    @Grimm, the whole "no-complaining" thing is another thing he gets passes for while others catch flack. Versus Mayweather, he sprinted out of the ring, skipped the post-fight presser and ran to his king size suite at the MGM.

    He said, "oh, my head hurts, I can't make the press conference! I'm going to the ER." He didn't go to no ER, he sat in his room chillin'. Lot of people didn't like that.

    I know so because I was there! In fact, I remember my post-fight story angle covering Cotto's anger with the scorecards.

    His very next fight, he did the very same thing -- jolted for the exit in rage. What's funny is he lost both fights convincingly.

    But hey, he's a proud man, I can understand if you don't want to talk after losing so I don't hold that against him. Give me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

    Yet, JMM gets called a whiner, Broner gets called worse and so does Bernard. I just wish people would be consistent.

    All that aside, I'm rooting for Cotto. I hope that clears up where I'm coming from somewhat?
    Last edited by The Shadow; 05-14-2014 at 07:08 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •