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Thread: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

  1. #41
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    If Al Haymon continues to sign guys the way he has, he will indeed have a monopoly. Every top name fighter seems to gravitate towards him nowadays. And us journalists can't even get near him. He doesn't want publicity. He just wants fighters.

    -Randy G
    And a monopoly will not be good for the sport! Competition is key, good strong and healthy competition. Make it easier for promoters to get in the game, one man controlling all the pieces will be to the detriment of the sport.

    With Haymon having the majority of fighters, good and bad, then we'll see him and his friends at the network pumping more of the sh*t we've been getting lately. They'll paint a picture far from the truth and the public will buy it, those with some knowledge will be left wanting. Some of you may disagree and say we've had good cards, but those put out have not been not in my opinion. I almost fell asleep during both of Sho's biggest events last year. The Garcia Matthysse fight saved the Sept 15th card, and without Mares and Santa Cruz, coupled with the pre-fight talk it would have made the May show as stale as a two week old slice of bread!

    The cold war is ridiculous in my opinion, and if and when it thaws out we will start to see the better match ups again. The fans deserve to see the best match ups, the best fighters and their trainers deserve to do battle against one another. What no one deserves is to be held ransom by one man and is grand scheme to take over the sport for the benefit of his own pocket. This is precisely why there are competition laws in place.

    A wider competition base ensures continued and improving high standards, better more competitive prices and a greater incentive to put on the best shows to attract more demand- in short, more bang for your buck!
    Last edited by Skibbz; 03-25-2014 at 07:14 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skibbz View Post
    And a monopoly will not be good for the sport! Competition is key, good strong and healthy competition. Make it easier for promoters to get in the game, one man controlling all the pieces will be to the detriment of the sport.

    With Haymon having the majority of fighters, good and bad, then we'll see him and his friends at the network pumping more of the sh*t we've been getting lately. They'll paint a picture far from the truth and the public will buy it, those with some knowledge will be left wanting. Some of you may disagree and say we've had good cards, but those put out have not been not in my opinion. I almost fell asleep during both of Sho's biggest events last year. The Garcia Matthysse fight saved the Sept 15th card, and without Mares and Santa Cruz coupled with the pre-fight talk would have made the May show as stale as a two week old slice of bread!

    The cold war is ridiculous in my opinion, and if and when it thaws out we will start to see the better match ups again. The fans deserve to see the best match ups, the best fighters and their trainers deserve to do battle against one another. What no one deserves is to be held ransom by one man and is grand scheme to take over the sport for the benefit of his own pocket. This is precisely why there are competition laws in place.

    A wider competition base ensures continued and improving high standards, better more competitive prices and a greater incentive to put on the best shows to attract more demand- in short, more bang for your buck!
    You should take over the podium at the next big fight and say that. Nice post.

  3. #43
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skibbz View Post
    And a monopoly will not be good for the sport! Competition is key, good strong and healthy competition. Make it easier for promoters to get in the game, one man controlling all the pieces will be to the detriment of the sport.

    With Haymon having the majority of fighters, good and bad, then we'll see him and his friends at the network pumping more of the sh*t we've been getting lately. They'll paint a picture far from the truth and the public will buy it, those with some knowledge will be left wanting. Some of you may disagree and say we've had good cards, but those put out have not been not in my opinion. I almost fell asleep during both of Sho's biggest events last year. The Garcia Matthysse fight saved the Sept 15th card, and without Mares and Santa Cruz coupled with the pre-fight talk would have made the May show as stale as a two week old slice of bread!

    The cold war is ridiculous in my opinion, and if and when it thaws out we will start to see the better match ups again. The fans deserve to see the best match ups, the best fighters and their trainers deserve to do battle against one another. What no one deserves is to be held ransom by one man and is grand scheme to take over the sport for the benefit of his own pocket. This is precisely why there are competition laws in place.

    A wider competition base ensures continued and improving high standards, better more competitive prices and a greater incentive to put on the best shows to attract more demand- in short, more bang for your buck!
    No offense, but you're waaaaaaaaay off, my man.

    First of all, Garcia vs. Matthyse are both Haymon fighters so you effectively praised the man because he's the one that made that happen.

    Secondly, it's not a matter of competition. Your description of free markets, while absolutely true, doesn't apply to boxing in that regard. You're missing the mark. What they're doing is more akin to unionizing, creating a uniform league like the NBA, NFL and MLS.

    And Al Haymon doesn't paint any picture; he doesn't even speak. He just does. And he does for the benefits of fighters -- not his pocket. Go ask any Al Haymon fighter or promoter who really benefits from his efforts. Promoters work for themselves. Haymon works for his fighters.

    (People just like to point fingers and Haymon is an easy target because he has influence.)

    In fact, if there was just one UFC like promotion, yes, it would be harder for other promoters to get in the game. Guess what, they can just manage fighters instead. Lower barrier to entry, less costly, still lucrative.

    The reason a Cold War even exists is because of "good, healthy" competition between promoters, which is COMPLETELY to the detriment of fans.

    If you had this "competition" in sports, then you would never see Lakers vs. Hornets, Lakers vs. Bucks, Miami vs. Duke -- you would only see Lakers vs. Miami, Miami vs. New York etc because they would command the highest ratings, gates and merchandise sales.

    Fortunately, there's a commission in place to ensure everyone gets to play, you can protect fighters' rights better and so forth.

    That's what Teddy Atlas has been crying for these years.

    Isn't that the whole selling point UFC keep talking about? That they always get the best fighting the best? While it's not completely true, the fact that Dana is their commissioner, there are less obstacles in the way of making big fights.
    Last edited by The Shadow; 03-25-2014 at 07:20 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    If Haymon doesn't do it for his pocket then what is his motivation? How long did he have Lucas m before the Garcia fight? Did he just sign Lucas m right before that fight?

  5. #45
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    I think it's terrible for fans. Haymon carefully picks and chooses fights. Keeping busy is one thing, developing is another. The jury is still out on this most curious and invisible of boxing men.

    -Randy G.

    P.S.--Many of the Men's 2012 U.S. Olympic Boxing Team, which won not a single medal in London, now have a collective pro record of around 70-0 under Al Haymon's advisorship (if that's a word!).

  6. #46
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    And they fought 70 marshmallows and tomato cans.

    And a selected non fighter of the 2008 O-Games, who is under the Shadow Al Human, is complaining and trying to weasel out of fighting Salido-defeated V-Lo. What a world of boksing that we live in nowadays.

    Why would a 24-0 pro try to weasel out of fighting one with an allegedly 1-1 -- actually 8-1 -- win-lost record? Holla!

  7. #47
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    Yes they are both Haymon fighters, and as I said in my post without that fight, the entire card would have had me snoring before the main event. Where else would you pay a premium, wait so long and still lose interest. I didn't buy in May, didn't buy in September and nor will I buy when it's time for "The Moment". Why? Because these cards are not exciting in my opinion. When outcomes are predictable, be it in the theatre of the unexpected as RG is so quick to point out, the desire to spend hard earned money on something which seems to be de facto fixed is very little, at least to me anyway,

    If you give a hungry man a crust or a whole loaf, he will not complain. His fighters would never say anything that going against him... why would they? As Artie once told me, "if my fighter makes a million, i'll make a few thousand, if he makes multi millions, i'll make a few hundreds of thousands." A promoter works to get his fighter employed with the most lucrative contract, so that all parties on his side of the deal benefit.

    The cold war exists because of the ego's of a few men. We are held ransom by it, we the fans, viewers, fighters and trainers pay the ultimate price.

    I do not think Haymon is acting out of charity or a desire to improve boxing general, if he is Espinoza and Schaefer certainly aren't. They're as greedy as their smiles and laughs give away. Having one banner under which all promotions fly is monopolistic and is thus in my opinion wrong. There are few cases where a natural monopoly may benefit those buying it's good or services, however in the case of boxing, a monopoly, natural or otherwise will be as I have stated before, to the detriment of the sport. They will fatten up the "Sweet home made pie" with all the chemicals and nasties they can find and charge you an arm and a leg.

    Boxing is not the UFC, and nor should it be. It is not the WWE, and again nor should it be. I should be able to pick up and sign a guy in my local gym, and through our combined efforts and successes in and out of the ring take him to the top. This is simply not the case when the cards are all held by one man or a cartel, who enjoy the special privileges they allow each other.

    A league is what you have described, but boxing is no league. It is my fighter vs your fighter, what I bring to the table and what you bring to the table. The UFC was not created in the same way that boxing was. I may be wrong here, so please correct me if I am. Boxing is rooted much differently, sure the enterprise of certain figures helped put on big displays, but was there ever a time when one man did everything?

    Yes there are obstacles in making fights, but this is what it is all about. Boxing is a people business, people deal with people to iron out issues. Promoters have never been so handicapped as they are today in making the best fights happen. This is because of the colluding of certain figures attempting to shut out competition to draw in the most for themselves - which, ultimately, is to the detriment of all but the lucky few involved..

  8. #48
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    Some people on here think Haymon is the best thing for boxing. I think he protects most of his fighters . You are right wilder and russell jr have fought TBA more then any other opponant . I just read that Kathy duva said they already had a deal in place with Kovalev and Stevenson ,fees agreed upon,and Haymon just junked the deal.

  9. #49
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    I guess time will tell. It's hard to truly know before everything has had a chance to unfold.

    FYI Radam, Haymon has tried to match Russell for a while. Has nothing to do with him. It's his father. In his position with Gary Jr., Sr. is a toxic man that should have nothing to do with his son's career.

  10. #50
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    Re: Shadow's Rumor Mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Commish View Post
    Great post of Ken Hershman, Shadow.

    -Randy G.
    Thanks, Randy!

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