Canelo Hasn’t Improved Since Fighting Mayweather

Canelo Hasn’t Improved Since Fighting Mayweather – This past Saturday night lineal middleweight champ Saul “Canelo” Alvarez 47-1-1 (33) scored a sensational sixth round one-punch knockout over former two division title holder Amir Khan 31-4 (19). The right hander that dropped and stopped Khan was a thing of beauty. It was short, direct and right on the chin. Amir was out on the way down, and when he landed his body and head bounced off the canvas and there was no need to count because the fight was over. The knockout scored by Alvarez was pretty much what most everyone expected going into the bout, and yes, the one-punch knockout, which is rare among elite fighters, doesn’t come as a shock either because Amir is not known for being the greatest catcher.

In the aftermath Alvarez is being celebrated and in most boxing circles the chatter is centered on when and if he’ll meet Gennady Golovkin 35-0 (32) who holds the WBA/IBF middleweight titles. After the bout, while being interviewed in the ring, Alvarez said that he doesn’t fear anyone but didn’t exactly commit himself to meeting Golovkin in his next bout. And you know what, although I would favor Golovkin if they met, Alvarez wouldn’t be a no-hope prey touching hands with GGG because of their style clash. Because if we know one thing for certain, it’s that Canelo won’t have to seek out Golovkin the way he was forced to against Khan.

Yes, Canelo’s highlight reel KO of Amir Khan is memorable, but it’s not what stands out in my mind pertaining to the bout, no, not by a long shot. What stood out to me during the bout is just how inept Alvarez is when he has to carry the action and fight as the pursuer or the attacker. It was on the verge of embarrassing just how many wild left-hooks and right hands he missed during the first five rounds of the fight. I can’t remember when was the last time I saw an elite fighter move his hands with his feet planted instead of stepping with the punch fighting a guy who was moving away and to one side or the other. Alvarez was no doubt confused, unimaginative, and slow — everything he was when he fought Floyd Mayweather. Only this time he wasn’t in with a special fighter and was saved by his power against a fighter who lacked the strength and chin to stand his ground.

In truth Canelo hasn’t improved since he fought Floyd Mayweather, not at all, and if they fought again, it would be a rerun of the first fight in spite of the fact that Floyd may have slowed and isn’t quite what he was almost three years ago. Granted, Alvarez’s ineptness to cut off the ring and close the distance against a fighter who is moving and picking his spots won’t be an issue when he fights Golovkin. However, it’s another layer of undeniable proof that Saul hasn’t really improved technically as a fighter. I was completely astounded by how far Alvarez stepped back after the clinches in the fight. There were times after they were separated that Khan, who should’ve been on his heels at all times, didn’t have to move a bit because Alvarez moved so far away on his own volition to reset after they were broken apart. And he didn’t do this just once or twice; it was nearly every time they had to be separated. It’s unfathomable that his corner never mentioned to him that he was giving away his entire advantage.

The thing that saved Alvarez was that he and Golden Boy Promotions probably knew deep down inside that he could erase any mistakes he made during the fight with one punch. And that’s a big reason why Khan was the opponent. Amir put up a good fight and definitely showed up to win and not just get paid. He also knew how to fight Alvarez and grasped what Saul’s limitations were. His problem ended up being physics and physicality. His smart boxing and movement were simply short-circuited by Alvarez’s overload in strength and punching power, assets that he’s not going to automatically own as his career continues to progress.

Alvarez is a hard worker, he’s a good not great two handed puncher, but he needs everything just right for him to be really effective. He’s sort of like an NFL quarterback who is great when he has time to throw and the field conditions are ideal. But then again there’s the other guy who lives inside of him who is mistake-prone and comes undone if all is not in balance. That is somewhat the way I see Canelo as a fighter. He has two left feet if his opponent resists him and doesn’t cooperate…..but if they plant their feet and give him something to counter without movement, he’s a very dangerous fighter.

Alvarez is a very tough guy, believe me, and I have no issue regarding his character and mental constitution. When he says he has no fear of Golovkin, I believe him. And from a style perspective, Golovkin will be less bothersome for him than Khan was. It’s just that he has the same problem versus GGG that Khan had against him, and that is does he have the strength and power to keep Golovkin from overwhelming him? In addition to that, can he stand up to Gennady’s full assault and have anything left to answer it with? That’s how the bout will be decided, and as of this time I don’t think he’ll be able to stay with Golovkin. In actuality there isn’t one thing he does better than GGG. The only question is whether he can last the distance with him.

Golovkin fights stylistically the way Canelo prefers his opponents to fight him. The problem, in all likelihood, is that Golovkin has too much strength and durability for him. I’d be surprised if they fought in their next fight, but that isn’t because Alvarez fears him……it’s more the case that he wants the fight to marinate a little more as we saw with Mayweather-Pacquiao.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

COMMENTS

-mortcola :

Hi F-Lo - I left a similar critique on the first article post-fight. You are right on the money. Some people see it differently, but I am stunned how one-dimensional he is. I blame it, apart from possibly lack of imagination or intelligence (his childish posturing re GGG makes me think he's a child), on his inability to punching without planting his front foot (both feet, but the front is the culprit at the moment he punches), something visible to anyone, and one of the reasons he almost never lands a combination on a fighter who is not completely stationary. I like what I said. You said more and better. I watched the fight again. Nothing new in the arsenal. Strong, good chin, thudding power without much snap, out-strengths better boxers who always do well in the first half of the fight, no fear or anxiety; everything he does well, GGG does far better, including landing combinations from any position, proven chin, always in position. Only possible way GGG loses is if, as I've said before, GGG makes HIS mistake of letting his opponent open up and land on him, for GREAT DRAMA SHOW, but mostly because he thinks he is impenetrable and that giving away a few punches will make his opponent get careless; GGG has good defense inside and out when he wants to, but he has had millions of fights (hundreds) and his chin will crack one day, GGG; I don't think Saul is the guy to do it, and Red will be beaten into a TKO, being saved from his own good chin if he is not finally wobbled and finished himself - he will not be able to evade anyone the day he gets hurt, not with those tree-stump legs.


-SouthPawFlo :

Another well written piece first off... I agree that Canelo isn't a great pursuer, and he works better as a counter puncher, but the only people that have given him real trouble are "Cream Of The Crop" boxers Lara and Mayweather will box circles around everything 154 and down.. I personally think that was Team Canelo's strategy to just feel Out Amir for the first couple of rounds... Amir Khan has some of the fastest hands in boxing but I feel from Round 4 on Canelo was getting his timing... But I said this in another post look at Canelo's Resume and his last 10 fights and ask yourself do you really think this kid can't box????


-Radam G :

Wow! Just plain old WOW! Some are looking, but they are not seeing. And blindness come in all forms. You may not believe what you see, but you can see what you believe. Eyes are the out of part of the brain up in the cranium. And those arrogrant eyes lie a lot. So Imma use my heart brain and gut brain. The old timers always said go with your heart and that gut feeling. "And you will be right nine out of ten times...." This sweet science Philosophy goes all the way back to the start of boksing in ancient Egypt. During that start of pugilism, all pugs were forced to fight with their left foot forward in the belief that lining the three brains up with that three-star formation. What that formation was called slips my mind. The gurus of those sweet science ancient pugs believed that whup-@$$ effect-ability came from coordinating the cranium brain, heart brain and stomach (gut) brain with the heavenly powers. THAT'S RIGHT! There is a STRONG BELIEF that pugs and soldiers have three brains. And they are always told to pay the one above-the-shoulder no attention. "Dat bytch will play trick on you and get you to quit...." "Many men have imagined danger that was not there because of the brain...." And we all know that a frighten-in-the-brain pug is worse than a c0ck? one. A c0ck? one can get a win. A frighten one will do a Bruce Seldon. Dude was kayoed by fright. Go at holla at his scrap with "Iron" Mike Tyson if you don't believe me. Iron Mike didn't touch him. Meanwhile: Canelo has arrived. Nuff said. Holla!


-Kid Blast :

Nicely balanced write up, Frank. I see Lemieux as Canelo's next opponent or marinating opponent as it were. Canelo still loops his hooks too much leaving himself open for a counter. He needs to shorten up on his hooks. This has been an issue with him for as long as I can recall, though it has never caused him to lose, though Cotto's brother did catch him and staggered him.


-michaelabii :

Canelo is good. Very good in fact. No, he certainly has not gotten any better since the Mayweather fight but he has grown in confidence and that is apparent when you dissect his last fights since Mayweather. Canelo/GGG is a toss up in my opinion. Canelo is still young enough to handle a bruising back and forth fight ala Ray Leonard/Hearns 1. The jury is still out on GGG in my opinion. I look at his opponents and it tells me nothing except that he is a very good fighter - but not necessarily great, at least not yet. Kovalev has a much better resume. The issue is GGG needs to be pushed back on the defensive and I doubt that canelo will have the mind set for that. When you fight defensively against either GGG or Kovalev they crush you. Only Mayweather (2007 version) could/maybe still can outbox GGG. Ward would beat Kovalev because he has the mindset and mental fortitude to bully Kovalev if he has to. Ward is very strong on the inside (Mayweather is too when he needs to). Just my opinion :)


-mortcola :

Just watched a GGG highlight reel. I know it mixes poor and legit competition. But, as risk of being provocative, what I see in a fight between GGG and Canelo is a one-sided mismatch, with Canelo unable to do anything HE does well without GGG doing the same but better, at twice the speed, snap, footspeed/placement, and simple ability to execute punches Canelo doesn't even know how to throw. I'm watching Canelo again, also against Kirkland and M. Cotto, and I see a strong but limited, slow-moving bull who wears down boxers after being outboxed himself, nailed hard by everyone he has fought, matched punch for punch in lots of heated exchanges until he gets in ONE stunner against also-immobile fighters, will be decimated in most exchanges and unable to adjust his body to counter evenly with GGG, one of who's greatest strengths is his ability to always place himself in perfect position to throw whatever punch he wishes to throw - Canelo's greatest weakness, exploited by every decent opponent until the strength difference turned the fight. For the sake of future analysis (face it, no one will remember this thread, but what the hell), I'm putting it out there. One of the great contemporary mismatches. Tell me one thing, anything, that Canelo does that is either better than GGG, or that would stump GGG. Someone will crack the GGG code. But Canelo is a guy who struggles with a ruler, and GGG is a master of space and timing, with KO ability from any angle or distance, in combination or with one punch. GGG's only significant weakness is grandstanding with an open chin (when he chooses to) in order to make great drama show and get a presumably weaker opponent to open up and lose steam while gaining false confidence, then lowering the boom. Stunning mismatch - nothing that worked on smaller opponents and/or size-equals with major impediments will have any relevance against a versatile, quick, and intelligent middleweight wrecking machine.


-amayseng :

Just watched a GGG highlight reel. I know it mixes poor and legit competition. But, as risk of being provocative, what I see in a fight between GGG and Canelo is a one-sided mismatch, with Canelo unable to do anything HE does well without GGG doing the same but better, at twice the speed, snap, footspeed/placement, and simple ability to execute punches Canelo doesn't even know how to throw. I'm watching Canelo again, also against Kirkland and M. Cotto, and I see a strong but limited, slow-moving bull who wears down boxers after being outboxed himself, nailed hard by everyone he has fought, matched punch for punch in lots of heated exchanges until he gets in ONE stunner against also-immobile fighters, will be decimated in most exchanges and unable to adjust his body to counter evenly with GGG, one of who's greatest strengths is his ability to always place himself in perfect position to throw whatever punch he wishes to throw - Canelo's greatest weakness, exploited by every decent opponent until the strength difference turned the fight. For the sake of future analysis (face it, no one will remember this thread, but what the hell), I'm putting it out there. One of the great contemporary mismatches. Tell me one thing, anything, that Canelo does that is either better than GGG, or that would stump GGG. Someone will crack the GGG code. But Canelo is a guy who struggles with a ruler, and GGG is a master of space and timing, with KO ability from any angle or distance, in combination or with one punch. GGG's only significant weakness is grandstanding with an open chin (when he chooses to) in order to make great drama show and get a presumably weaker opponent to open up and lose steam while gaining false confidence, then lowering the boom. Stunning mismatch - nothing that worked on smaller opponents and/or size-equals with major impediments will have any relevance against a versatile, quick, and intelligent middleweight wrecking machine.
Agreed 100% If GGG vs Canelo is next you will see Canelo beat to a pulp, literally. Look at the jab GGG brought out to astounding dominance against DL, a big strong mw with power. He dominated DL with the jab, kept his spacing, kept David from being able to be offensive while then destroying him along the way. Canelo's slow feet and inability to throw while moving, as I predicted got him white washed against Floyd, will this time keep him from being able to get away from the onslaught of GGG


-Radam G :

Just watched a GGG highlight reel. I know it mixes poor and legit competition. But, as risk of being provocative, what I see in a fight between GGG and Canelo is a one-sided mismatch, with Canelo unable to do anything HE does well without GGG doing the same but better, at twice the speed, snap, footspeed/placement, and simple ability to execute punches Canelo doesn't even know how to throw. I'm watching Canelo again, also against Kirkland and M. Cotto, and I see a strong but limited, slow-moving bull who wears down boxers after being outboxed himself, nailed hard by everyone he has fought, matched punch for punch in lots of heated exchanges until he gets in ONE stunner against also-immobile fighters, will be decimated in most exchanges and unable to adjust his body to counter evenly with GGG, one of who's greatest strengths is his ability to always place himself in perfect position to throw whatever punch he wishes to throw - Canelo's greatest weakness, exploited by every decent opponent until the strength difference turned the fight. For the sake of future analysis (face it, no one will remember this thread, but what the hell), I'm putting it out there. One of the great contemporary mismatches. Tell me one thing, anything, that Canelo does that is either better than GGG, or that would stump GGG. Someone will crack the GGG code. But Canelo is a guy who struggles with a ruler, and GGG is a master of space and timing, with KO ability from any angle or distance, in combination or with one punch. GGG's only significant weakness is grandstanding with an open chin (when he chooses to) in order to make great drama show and get a presumably weaker opponent to open up and lose steam while gaining false confidence, then lowering the boom. Stunning mismatch - nothing that worked on smaller opponents and/or size-equals with major impediments will have any relevance against a versatile, quick, and intelligent middleweight wrecking machine.
The "theatre of the unexpected" might cause you a wreck. It is in full effect. Don't be so c0cksure about a mismatch. Don't count your chickens before their eggs hatch. Three g is past his prime. Canelo is catching him at the right time. Three g has been in with too many soft pugs. And he spanked their arses and squashed them as if they were a lot of invading-the-sidewalk bugs. Nonetheless, constantly fighting soft is not a good thing. Three g is going to be in trouble with the youth, power and engergy that Canelo is going to bring. Styles make fights. And 3g has a "BIG DRAMA" coming-forward one that will give Canelo one of his best-and-easiest nights. I can clearly see it from being in that squared jungle. This will be one mad rumble, in which 3g is going finally eat for "BIG DRAMA" kryptonite and badly stumble and tumble. Every era, there are upsets of the impossible. Because somebody dared to dream the impossible dream. And not listen to the bogeyman's "BIG DRAMA" scream. Holla!


-Radam G :

Agreed 100% If GGG vs Canelo is next you will see Canelo beat to a pulp, literally. Look at the jab GGG brought out to astounding dominance against DL, a big strong mw with power. He dominated DL with the jab, kept his spacing, kept David from being able to be offensive while then destroying him along the way. Canelo's slow feet and inability to throw while moving, as I predicted got him white washed against Floyd, will this time keep him from being able to get away from the onslaught of GGG
Three g has been a straight-up killa because the middleweight division has been soft. He does not have a style like Lil' Floyd to give Canelo "BIG DRAMA! problems. Matter of fact. He has a style that will give Canelo a "Mexican style fight" -- in 3g's own words -- an immense, intense delicious meal. At this scrap, pundits fanfaronades are not looking at the real real. They have become blinded by fan-ship [$ic]. And will be shock if and whenCanelo win a vicious beat-down firefight in two or three rounds -- five at the most. Holla!


-mortcola :

Three g has been a straight-up killa because the middleweight division has been soft. He does not have a style like Lil' Floyd to give Canelo "BIG DRAMA! problems. Matter of fact. He has a style that will give Canelo a "Mexican style fight" -- in 3g's own words -- an immense, intense delicious meal. At this scrap, pundits fanfaronades are not looking at the real real. They have become blinded by fan-ship [$ic]. And will be shock if and whenCanelo win a vicious beat-down firefight in two or three rounds -- five at the most. Holla!
You're not saying how he could possibly do it - no answer to my technical points. What could Canelo, one punch at a time, poor range, possibly do? GGG has been consistently the same dominant fighter in all his matches, against better and worse, and has one of the best amateur pedigrees in history, over four hundred fights around the world. How the f?


-Radam G :

You're not saying how he could possibly do it - no answer to my technical points. What could Canelo, one punch at a time, poor range, possibly do? GGG has been consistently the same dominant fighter in all his matches, against better and worse, and has one of the best amateur pedigrees in history, over four hundred fights around the world. How the f?
I'm reminded of the history of the pundits of GOAT Ali and his d-cuz Tyson Fury. They were calling the GOAT and his d-cuz very limited pugs with umpteen bad habits. And they -- the pundits -- claimed that the descendants of Irish O'Gady would be easy to KTFO by the late, great Sonny "Night Train" Liston and the said-great-by-many Doc Wladimir Klit. But it didn't come close to happening. Canelo ain't no Irish, but he can pass for one. Three g is the boogie man of the middleweight -- the up-in-age-for-a-pug boogie man. And dude may be a killa, but he has been scrapping softies. No fault of his own. And he ain't a Money May or a Sugar Ray. His movement will not be difficult for Canelo's radar to track down and blast the syet outta dat "BIG DRAMA FIGHT." In the wisdom that I've been taught by the boksing elders and old timers, Imma use my gut feelings and my heart, not my conditioned brain, and call a spade a spade and not roll in the group's shade. Canelo is going to upset and embarrass da holy syet outta 3g. Please don't give me that talking head syet of "amateur pedigrees in history." Only about 3% of the pugs with so-called great or good "amateur pedigrees" become pro world champions. My friendly doc, you are the pot calling the skillet black. Hehe! Besides, as the K bros/Doc's were, Three g is in a soft era in his division. I've done the research and da work.Holla!


-amayseng :

Three g has been a straight-up killa because the middleweight division has been soft. He does not have a style like Lil' Floyd to give Canelo "BIG DRAMA! problems. Matter of fact. He has a style that will give Canelo a "Mexican style fight" -- in 3g's own words -- an immense, intense delicious meal. At this scrap, pundits fanfaronades are not looking at the real real. They have become blinded by fan-ship [$ic]. And will be shock if and whenCanelo win a vicious beat-down firefight in two or three rounds -- five at the most. Holla!
No way that happens. DL is better , bigger, stronger than anyone Canelo has dealt with and look what happened to him. Canelo will gas 7 rounds in and the accumulation of a piston jab, body work and GGG straight rights and shifting will beat him down in destroying fashion.


-mortcola :

No way that happens. DL is better , bigger, stronger than anyone Canelo has dealt with and look what happened to him. Canelo will gas 7 rounds in and the accumulation of a piston jab, body work and GGG straight rights and shifting will beat him down in destroying fashion.
Bingo Radam's heart is kind. But this is boksing


-stormcentre :

I'm reminded of the history of the pundits of GOAT Ali and his d-cuz Tyson Fury. They were calling the GOAT and his d-cuz very limited pugs with umpteen bad habits. And they -- the pundits -- claimed that the descendants of Irish O'Gady would be easy to KTFO by the late, great Sonny "Night Train" Liston and the said-great-by-many Doc Wladimir Klit. But it didn't come close to happening. Canelo ain't no Irish, but he can pass for one. Three g is the boogie man of the middleweight -- the up-in-age-for-a-pug boogie man. And dude may be a killa, but he has been scrapping softies. No fault of his own. And he ain't a Money May or a Sugar Ray. His movement will not be difficult for Canelo's radar to track down and blast the syet outta dat "BIG DRAMA FIGHT." In the wisdom that I've been taught by the boksing elders and old timers, Imma use my gut feelings and my heart, not my conditioned brain, and call a spade a spade and not roll in the group's shade. Canelo is going to upset and embarrass da holy syet outta 3g. Please don't give me that talking head syet of "amateur pedigrees in history." Only about 3% of the pugs with so-called great or good "amateur pedigrees" become pro world champions. My friendly doc, you are the pot calling the skillet black. Hehe! Besides, as the K bros/Doc's were, Three g is in a soft era in his division. I've done the research and da work.Holla!
Rubbish.


-mortcola :

Rubbish indeed. When pressed, no substance. just say-so.


-amayseng :

You have to consider the good things Canelo has been doing he has done them against smaller, weaker opponents or against guys who are past prime and no longer offer the same punch resistance. He was not even able to hurt a past prime, though still good Cotto, Floyd wobbled him years ago in his prime at a lower weight. Canelo's biggest flaw is one he has no ability to improve, foot agility and coordination. He can not move and punch especially in combination and is slow moving anyways. He will never be able to get his proper spacing to be offensive, or defensive to keep from taking a beating. One thing that has improved is Canelo's composure, seems he remains calm and never out of sorts, even if down a few rounds in a row. That in itself is a good attribute of course, though wont make a difference when he is getting pummeled. GGG is so good he has similar attributes and skills to the phenom Duran.


-mortcola :

You have to consider the good things Canelo has been doing he has done them against smaller, weaker opponents or against guys who are past prime and no longer offer the same punch resistance. He was not even able to hurt a past prime, though still good Cotto, Floyd wobbled him years ago in his prime at a lower weight. Canelo's biggest flaw is one he has no ability to improve, foot agility and coordination. He can not move and punch especially in combination and is slow moving anyways. He will never be able to get his proper spacing to be offensive, or defensive to keep from taking a beating. One thing that has improved is Canelo's composure, seems he remains calm and never out of sorts, even if down a few rounds in a row. That in itself is a good attribute of course, though wont make a difference when he is getting pummeled. GGG is so good he has similar attributes and skills to the phenom Duran.
Good comparison, to Duran. Savvy, brutality, accuracy, variety of defensive options, instinct to leap on any weakness. GGG hits even harder, pound for pound, and has more offensive versatility, as good as Duran was. GGG seldom misses a punch and lands from anywhere, at any distance or angle, with equal destructive force. I keep trying to think of WAYS the fight could go differently than I say, and can't even find a case to make for Canelo, tough kid but in far over his head. I'm surprised at how many people make a case for him without describing any scenario in which Canelo could do anything but land ONE punch against GGG that somehow does what no one in GGG's career has ever done, hurt him. Red sure won't land any combinations and will not avoid most punches, which will be harder and more numerous than anything he has seen. Convince me otherwise, don't just say so.


-Radam G :

Bingo Radam's heart is kind. But this is boksing
Hehehe! You guys are a riot. I done told cha that size doesn't matter. And pug "A" doesn't mean a hill of beans in regards to pug "B." DL was just aight! Not all dat and a bag of chips. Holla!


-Radam G :

Rubbish indeed. When pressed, no substance. just say-so.
But I end up being right about these pugs 96.4576 percentage of the time. And the troll, nut cases, groupies, fit ins and posers are dead wrong 50 percent of the time. Boksing is the "theatre of the unexpected" and the so-called substance is dead wrong an incredible amount of the time. Eighty percent of undisputed heavyweight champions from John L. Sullivan to Tyson Fury were not favored to win the belt, but did. Check it out for yourself. Be a self thinker and researcher and you will see the light, not just the mirages with your insight. Doc, once again, and I've told you a zillion times, it is bullsh?ters and posers -- with agendas of jealousy and hatred -- who are always peddling substantiate diz, dat and da third because they are phonies. Anybody in da game for da actuality of da real real reality clearly knows logic diz and dat ain't sweet science because sweet science is like the weather. Holla!


-michaelabii :

Good comparison, to Duran. Savvy, brutality, accuracy, variety of defensive options, instinct to leap on any weakness. GGG hits even harder, pound for pound, and has more offensive versatility, as good as Duran was. GGG seldom misses a punch and lands from anywhere, at any distance or angle, with equal destructive force. I keep trying to think of WAYS the fight could go differently than I say, and can't even find a case to make for Canelo, tough kid but in far over his head. I'm surprised at how many people make a case for him without describing any scenario in which Canelo could do anything but land ONE punch against GGG that somehow does what no one in GGG's career has ever done, hurt him. Red sure won't land any combinations and will not avoid most punches, which will be harder and more numerous than anything he has seen. Convince me otherwise, don't just say so.
You make a very convincing argument Mort and for the most part you are correct. GGG 'appears' to be the more technically gifted fighter of the two. I am seeing something deeper here though and who knows? I may be proven wrong. Canelo has developed some salient intangibles since the Mayweather fight and that is a belief that he is a great fighter. Not in the mold of a Floyd Mayweather but more in the realm of a JC Chavez (I know - jump on me for daring to make the comparison of which there is none). The point I am making is that in his absolute prime JC believed with every ounce of his soul that he was better than his opponent. David L is a decent powerful middleweight but honestly, if he is the standard to judge GGGs greatness then.......Canelo fights with a belief that he can and will win and that comes with fighting the best. GGG has not shown me anything that he can do in adversity and that would be my answer to you question re what could Canelo do that GGG cannot do better. What happens when the Kazakhstan wrecking machine hits Canelo for four or five rounds and Canelo does not fold but keeps answering with thudding combinations ? What happens when he is pushed back or cut or may I say even dropped - yes, quite possible because Canelo can punch. Thats why its an interesting fight. Now any comparisons between GGG and a prime Duran are way too premature. Duran while an offensive wrecker also had an underated defense. He was excellent at slipping punches and in my opinion his opposition at this stage of GGGs career was much better.


-mortcola :

You make a very convincing argument Mort and for the most part you are correct. GGG 'appears' to be the more technically gifted fighter of the two. I am seeing something deeper here though and who knows? I may be proven wrong. Canelo has developed some salient intangibles since the Mayweather fight and that is a belief that he is a great fighter. Not in the mold of a Floyd Mayweather but more in the realm of a JC Chavez (I know - jump on me for daring to make the comparison of which there is none). The point I am making is that in his absolute prime JC believed with every ounce of his soul that he was better than his opponent. David L is a decent powerful middleweight but honestly, if he is the standard to judge GGGs greatness then.......Canelo fights with a belief that he can and will win and that comes with fighting the best. GGG has not shown me anything that he can do in adversity and that would be my answer to you question re what could Canelo do that GGG cannot do better. What happens when the Kazakhstan wrecking machine hits Canelo for four or five rounds and Canelo does not fold but keeps answering with thudding combinations ? What happens when he is pushed back or cut or may I say even dropped - yes, quite possible because Canelo can punch. Thats why its an interesting fight. Now any comparisons between GGG and a prime Duran are way too premature. Duran while an offensive wrecker also had an underated defense. He was excellent at slipping punches and in my opinion his opposition at this stage of GGGs career was much better.
You make the best argument I have read. Either GGG hasn't faced adversity because he neutralizes it, or because he's been fortunate. And Canelo IS very composed, more so now. but I can't see him landing those combinations - every time I envision him trying against GGG, I see him walking into GGG's strongest hand and being beaten painfully with each exchange. What Canelo does, GGG does better. But we both know that the intangibles are powerful in boxing, and that's where the surprises occur. And, Yes, Duran's defense was sneaky and smart. GGG CAN slip and parry and mess with perception of distance - but will he?. Its the unlikeliness of Red's thudding combos occurring without too high a price - and Canelo's tendency to become too economical and inhibited when he's not SET UP just right to punch - that makes me think he is walking into a devastating trap every time he thinks GGG is there to engage - that's what convinces me. I love the wait and see. Soon please.


-stormcentre :

But
I end up being right about these pugs 96.4576 percentage of the time. And the troll, nut cases, groupies, fit ins and posers are dead wrong 50 percent of the time. Boksing is the "theatre of the unexpected" and the so-called substance is dead wrong an incredible amount of the time. Eighty percent of undisputed heavyweight champions from John L. Sullivan to Tyson Fury were not favored to win the belt, but did. Check it out for yourself. Be a self thinker and researcher and you will see the light, not just the mirages with your insight. Doc, once again, and I've told you a zillion times, it is bullsh?ters and posers -- with agendas of jealousy and hatred -- who are always peddling substantiate diz, dat and da third because they are phonies. Anybody in da game for da actuality of da real real reality clearly knows logic diz and dat ain't sweet science because sweet science is like the weather. Holla!
Ha ha that?s real funny. Seriously; I am laughing. Without so much as an ounce of proof and whilst ? at the very same time - soooooo much *proof exists to absolutely counter/debunk the view, such as your well earned E&HHoF; you're (in true ImmaDoubleWorldChampion2 form) giving yourself a better than 98 percent precision rate, for getting it right all of the time. *
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 Dare I ask for proof on how you came to the 96.4576 number? Surely you wouldn't have just plucked that (laughable) number out of the watermelon seeded hot air evacuating from an orifice you're fond of speaking out of, would you? :) More like Random has 98 percent precision rate for getting it wrong; as his E&HHoF and it's above link shows. Anyway, DoubleWorldChampion . . . Shouldn?t you be at the latest interior lighting convention, preparing to film your next miraculous UFO sighting video for Wallace and his mindless, magical, mineral drinking followers? Far out man . . . If nothing else it?s great humour. Rarely are even farm animals this deluded. Thanks Donkey. Love it !!! Storm. :) :)


-Radam G :

The actuality of the reality. The Fight Game's five best pugs with swag and doing da syet their way and mind puckin' [$ic] the haters and posers of how one suppose to do diz, dat and da third the way the haters and posters wanted it done. GTFOH!
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GixtIjZLgyU. Holla!


-stormcentre :

The actuality of the reality. The Fight Game's five best pugs with swag and doing da syet their way and mind puckin' [$ic] the haters and posers of how one suppose to do diz, dat and da third the way the haters and posters wanted it done. GTFOH!
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GixtIjZLgyU. Holla!
Oh, now that you explain it like that . . .

"
Random; "It's the actuality of the reality . . . ""

Now that (with that deeply insightful answer) it's clear that . . . . . .

As far as proof on how you came to the 96.4576 percentage/number goes . . you know that same number as in your above post #20, that you wouldn't have just voodoo-plucked out of the watermelon seeded hot air evacuating from an orifice you're fond of speaking out of, all as a means to cover the rubbish-falsehood before it . . and on and on it goes (back) to (an) *infinity (of *miracle claims that are *run from) . . . ? The fact of the matter is that what you have to substantiate yourself is . . .


- Not a tally of all the (hundreds of) times you have been busted crapping on; nope.

* ""I am Random real and will keep it that cinnamon-way with blood circulating potions that make your DoubleWorldChampion circulation blast around at 30,000 times a (PacLoss-WetDaBed-Excuse) minute""


- Not a tally of all the (hundreds of) times you have been busted evading the subject you yourself raised and made incredible claims about - nope.
- Not a tally of all the times you have been busted claiming you will explain, only to run when someone accepts your offer; nope.
- Not a tally of all the unproven claims associated with that magical and cancer curing glacial mineral water that you (were clandestinely MLM selling, but still) abjectly failed (in every sense) to adequately substantiate (whether or not that lack of substantiation be provided by you within a purpose designed thread that you yourself constructed for that very purpose); this includes your failure to - as you explicitly claimed you would - substantiate the magical and cancer curing glacial mineral water's inventor's credentials (that supposedly speak for themselves) - nope, nothing about that.
- Not a tally of all the (many, many) times you have wrongly claimed your fighter is going to spectacularly (or otherwise win) - only to see him lose and then - as a result of that insightful and laughably woeful prediction on your part (that was, really, about as reliable as your claim that sucking watermelon seeds will improve hand-speed) - we all get to see you push yourself over the (psychotic) edge and (back) into another DonkeyVoodoo (Spence/PacLossExcuse) TSS forum relapse; nope, no information on that.

Which, I might add (and this is just
Storm speaking here whom knows SFA about sniffing out pretenders and false claims, and substantiating himself) I would have thought would have fed quite nicely/comfortably into your home cooked miracle percentage numbers that - just by voodoo-coincidence - somehow have ended up portraying you as a fortune telling NostRADAMazz-genius with a better than 95% precision/hit rate.


- Not a tally of all the times you have claimed (without proving) you have a potion that improves sporting ability; nope.
- And, it's not a tally of all the times you have claimed (again, without proving) you have a potion that cures terminal and other debilitating diseases and conditions; nope.

In fact, when all is said and DoubleWorldChampion done, what you really have (to back yourself up) appears to be nothing like the proof that I have . . .

*
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438

And, as you can see . . . that above link and also the E&HHOF proof within it that I have . . . keeps it Snoop Doggy Dog Dog real. Cause I am real and I will keep it that way. :) :)





So after that brief (and substantiated) revision of (your) Donkey-Voodoo history, a good question might be . . . So . . what exactly is it that you have to ease any concerns reliable readers may have that you may be telling porky pies again; with those funky percentage numbers that "supposedly" explain how you are correct more than 95% of the "MayPacLossExcuseDoubleWorldChampion" time? Wait for it . . . . . Yawl all know it's going to be real consistent, reliable, verifiable, and DonkeyGood . . . Well, of course folks . . . "It's (Brother Voodoo's) the actuality of the reality . . . " That's BV's answer to easing any concerns reliable readers may have that his funky percentage numbers that (are at odds with most peoples version of reality, but according to BV) "supposedly" explain how he's correct more than 95% of the "MayPacLossExcuseDoubleWorldChampion" time, are real? Ah . . . Now it all makes sense doesn't it? Apologies my main magician . . . You see, I had overlooked the fact that you had such a reliable and consistent means of explaining and substantiating yourself and all your incredible claims. Anyway, great laughs. And . . in closing . . . You know how the saying goes . . There's nothing like the laughs provided by a pretender whom believes his own stories. Keep up the great work.
Storm. :) :)


-amayseng :

You make a very convincing argument Mort and for the most part you are correct. GGG 'appears' to be the more technically gifted fighter of the two. I am seeing something deeper here though and who knows? I may be proven wrong. Canelo has developed some salient intangibles since the Mayweather fight and that is a belief that he is a great fighter. Not in the mold of a Floyd Mayweather but more in the realm of a JC Chavez (I know - jump on me for daring to make the comparison of which there is none). The point I am making is that in his absolute prime JC believed with every ounce of his soul that he was better than his opponent. David L is a decent powerful middleweight but honestly, if he is the standard to judge GGGs greatness then.......Canelo fights with a belief that he can and will win and that comes with fighting the best. GGG has not shown me anything that he can do in adversity and that would be my answer to you question re what could Canelo do that GGG cannot do better. What happens when the Kazakhstan wrecking machine hits Canelo for four or five rounds and Canelo does not fold but keeps answering with thudding combinations ? What happens when he is pushed back or cut or may I say even dropped - yes, quite possible because Canelo can punch. Thats why its an interesting fight. Now any comparisons between GGG and a prime Duran are way too premature. Duran while an offensive wrecker also had an underated defense. He was excellent at slipping punches and in my opinion his opposition at this stage of GGGs career was much better.
GGG did not knock out DL in four or five rounds but kept to his game plan and continued to destroy him, as he has many other fighters he did not knock out immediately, that is the thing GGG is a straight killer with a strong mind, he wont bend or weaken no matter if it takes 28 rounds to get someone out of there. If he is dropped do you think , from what you have seen , adding into his amateur pedigree and overall background, present, personality that he will fold? nah No one is comparing GGG to the ATG that Duran is, he is a top 5 ATG among many historians, but he does implement the ART OF SHIFTING, something that is an elite skill and ability. GGG's resume will never be better than Duran's. dont twist it, was not the point. Who has Canelo beat that makes you think he will beat GGG? an old Cotto? damaged Kirkland? damaged Angulo? small ww Khan with no chin? Floyd who boxed his ears off and shut him out?


-amayseng :

You make the best argument I have read. Either GGG hasn't faced adversity because he neutralizes it, or because he's been fortunate. And Canelo IS very composed, more so now. but I can't see him landing those combinations - every time I envision him trying against GGG, I see him walking into GGG's strongest hand and being beaten painfully with each exchange. What Canelo does, GGG does better. But we both know that the intangibles are powerful in boxing, and that's where the surprises occur. And, Yes, Duran's defense was sneaky and smart. GGG CAN slip and parry and mess with perception of distance - but will he?. Its the unlikeliness of Red's thudding combos occurring without too high a price - and Canelo's tendency to become too economical and inhibited when he's not SET UP just right to punch - that makes me think he is walking into a devastating trap every time he thinks GGG is there to engage - that's what convinces me. I love the wait and see. Soon please.
Canelo has always struggled stamina wise, GGG is constant, constant pressure and fighting, no breaks, no rests, no getting away from him. He is a killing machine and Canelo will be beat to a literal pulp. I just hope it doesnt ruin the kid for good.


-mortcola :

GGG did not knock out DL in four or five rounds but kept to his game plan and continued to destroy him, as he has many other fighters he did not knock out immediately, that is the thing GGG is a straight killer with a strong mind, he wont bend or weaken no matter if it takes 28 rounds to get someone out of there. If he is dropped do you think , from what you have seen , adding into his amateur pedigree and overall background, present, personality that he will fold? nah No one is comparing GGG to the ATG that Duran is, he is a top 5 ATG among many historians, but he does implement the ART OF SHIFTING, something that is an elite skill and ability. GGG's resume will never be better than Duran's. dont twist it, was not the point. Who has Canelo beat that makes you think he will beat GGG? an old Cotto? damaged Kirkland? damaged Angulo? small ww Khan with no chin? Floyd who boxed his ears off and shut him out?
You make a good point about Duran. The GGG legacy will be understood when it is done. No need to make greater. Duran cannot be minimized, and I was not and would not do so. His story is unique, as are his gifts. Can you imagine a fight between a weight-equalized GGG and prime Duran? Fantasy Boxing. Imaginary, I know...


-Radam G :

GGG did not knock out DL in four or five rounds but kept to his game plan and continued to destroy him, as he has many other fighters he did not knock out immediately, that is the thing GGG is a straight killer with a strong mind, he wont bend or weaken no matter if it takes 28 rounds to get someone out of there. If he is dropped do you think , from what you have seen , adding into his amateur pedigree and overall background, present, personality that he will fold? nah No one is comparing GGG to the ATG that Duran is, he is a top 5 ATG among many historians, but he does implement the ART OF SHIFTING, something that is an elite skill and ability. GGG's resume will never be better than Duran's. dont twist it, was not the point. Who has Canelo beat that makes you think he will beat GGG? an old Cotto? damaged Kirkland? damaged Angulo? small ww Khan with no chin? Floyd who boxed his ears off and shut him out?
You give lil Floyd too much credit for beating a kid Canelo, who lil Floyd tricked to come in at a sweat-down catchweight, something that more fans appartently hate. How soon do we forget. Excess weight lost matters more than size and rehydration, especially for a growing kid not being able to use TUE of 750 whachamacalla. Hehe! Pundits and fan are always talking syet about diz, dat and da third of other pugs, but not lil Floyd. Yup! He boxed the ears off a sweated-down kid. Wow! Lil Floyd has da blind luv and general people blinded by his stealth bullsyet of fighting crippled and/or injured pugs. What a puckin' TBE -- the bullsyetting evader -- full of that dat syet and xylocaine in his brittle hands. Holla!


-amayseng :

You give lil Floyd too much credit for beating a kid Canelo, who lil Floyd tricked to come in at a sweat-down catchweight, something that more fans appartently hate. How soon do we forget. Excess weight lost matters more than size and rehydration, especially for a growing kid not being able to use TUE of 750 whachamacalla. Hehe! Pundits and fan are always talking syet about diz, dat and da third of other pugs, but not lil Floyd. Yup! He boxed the ears off a sweated-down kid. Wow! Lil Floyd has da blind luv and general people blinded by his stealth bullsyet of fighting crippled and/or injured pugs. What a puckin' TBE -- the bullsyetting evader -- full of that dat syet and xylocaine in his brittle hands. Holla!
the catch weight most likely hurt Canelo, but either way he took the fight, poor management, sure he said he would fight floyd at 152 but that was two years earlier, should have made it 154. Either way, his feet are tooooooo slow, cant move and punch in combination and his power is waaaay overrated, so when he fights a big strong bull in GGG who is a constant wrecking machine he will be out of sorts every second of every round. If he lands a ko punch then God bless him, but it will not likely happen.


-Radam G :

the catch weight most likely hurt Canelo, but either way he took the fight, poor management, sure he said he would fight floyd at 152 but that was two years earlier, should have made it 154. Either way, his feet are tooooooo slow, cant move and punch in combination and his power is waaaay overrated, so when he fights a big strong bull in GGG who is a constant wrecking machine he will be out of sorts every second of every round. If he lands a ko punch then God bless him, but it will not likely happen.
We shall see hopefully in September. I will give you 3g and I will take Canelo. Three g has a lot of magnetism and charisma. But that does not win "Big drama" scraps. Holla!


-mortcola :

About Canelo's self-belief and handling of adversity: Yes, he is very confident and composed. But if he has shown more evidence of handling adversity than GGG, i is because he deals with adversity in most of his fights at the top level. His shortcomings are exploited and used to make him look like a single-punch plodder until eventually DOES catch the frail boxer or out punch the toe-to-toe-reliant bomber who does't have the chin or athleticism he possesses - the latter being a grade-B, but not better, otherwise he wouldn't have to chase and follow and wing so much in every damn fight. GGG has never been troubled by anything, either because he's had nothing but soft touches (no) or because he has a snappy answer to every puzzle and style (probably). JCC would catch up to you with body-to-head combinations within a few rounds no matter who you were. Canelo has nowhere near the mastery of the systematic beatdown that JCC had, or the combination punching ability. Also, JCC had one of the great chins of history, and was not deterred from his fight plan no matter what you did to him.Canelo might have a similar disposition and a good-enough chin, but nowhere near the tools.


-amayseng :

We shall see hopefully in September. I will give you 3g and I will take Canelo. Three g has a lot of magnetism and charisma. But that does not win "Big drama" scraps. Holla!
You know me RG, baseball player, cant be mentally weak with the struggles of that game. I am not deterred or easily impressed. 3g another animal all together.


-Radam G :

You know me RG, baseball player, cant be mentally weak with the struggles of that game. I am not deterred or easily impressed. 3g another animal all together.
Okay! You got 3g and all the animal in him. Hehe! And I got Canelo. And all of the state of SHOCK in him. He's going to shock 3g and the world. He will go down in boxing history as another impossible winner. Dang! Da game has a long trail of 'em kinds of wins. Holla!


-Radam G :

About Canelo's self-belief and handling of adversity: Yes, he is very confident and composed. But if he has shown more evidence of handling adversity than GGG, i is because he deals with adversity in most of his fights at the top level. His shortcomings are exploited and used to make him look like a single-punch plodder until eventually DOES catch the frail boxer or out punch the toe-to-toe-reliant bomber who does't have the chin or athleticism he possesses - the latter being a grade-B, but not better, otherwise he wouldn't have to chase and follow and wing so much in every damn fight. GGG has never been troubled by anything, either because he's had nothing but soft touches (no) or because he has a snappy answer to every puzzle and style (probably). JCC would catch up to you with body-to-head combinations within a few rounds no matter who you were. Canelo has nowhere near the mastery of the systematic beatdown that JCC had, or the combination punching ability. Also, JCC had one of the great chins of history, and was not deterred from his fight plan no matter what you did to him.Canelo might have a similar disposition and a good-enough chin, but nowhere near the tools.
Lesser boxers with lesser tools have won. Matter of fact, there is a long trail littered with pugs having all the tools getting their arses thrashed by tool-less ones. Holla!


-michaelabii :

About Canelo's self-belief and handling of adversity: Yes, he is very confident and composed. But if he has shown more evidence of handling adversity than GGG, i is because he deals with adversity in most of his fights at the top level. His shortcomings are exploited and used to make him look like a single-punch plodder until eventually DOES catch the frail boxer or out punch the toe-to-toe-reliant bomber who does't have the chin or athleticism he possesses - the latter being a grade-B, but not better, otherwise he wouldn't have to chase and follow and wing so much in every damn fight. GGG has never been troubled by anything, either because he's had nothing but soft touches (no) or because he has a snappy answer to every puzzle and style (probably). JCC would catch up to you with body-to-head combinations within a few rounds no matter who you were. Canelo has nowhere near the mastery of the systematic beatdown that JCC had, or the combination punching ability. Also, JCC had one of the great chins of history, and was not deterred from his fight plan no matter what you did to him.Canelo might have a similar disposition and a good-enough chin, but nowhere near the tools.
Ok guys. I am convinced! After watching countless tape of both guys GGG just seems to be superior in all but the following: Level of opposition. However, he appears to rise to the occasion every time you turn up the heat. What I like most about him is his almost perfect punch placement. Floyd says he sees no spacial FX with GGG. Just up and down. But boy! He sure can place those up and down punches with precision and power. His sense of distance is also surreal. However I do see a flaw in his defense - he gets hit more often than necessary. Is this deliberate? Who knows?


-mortcola :

Ok guys. I am convinced! After watching countless tape of both guys GGG just seems to be superior in all but the following: Level of opposition. However, he appears to rise to the occasion every time you turn up the heat. What I like most about him is his almost perfect punch placement. Floyd says he sees no spacial FX with GGG. Just up and down. But boy! He sure can place those up and down punches with precision and power. His sense of distance is also surreal. However I do see a flaw in his defense - he gets hit more often than necessary. Is this deliberate? Who knows?
Key question. I've watched him slip and counter effectively, very conscious of what is coming at him. I've complained about his tendency to "grandstand" for Drama Show - or, letting the other guy just tee off (like Monroe) to get him to open up, get false confidence, and tire his arms out, reflecting a perhaps foolish faith in his own chin, unless he really know that what he's being hit with doesn't hurt. After 9 million fights, its gonna crack one day. But I bet that against a known puncher with a rep and something to prove, he is smart boxer-puncher who doesn't absorb what he doesn't have to. My assumption, since I've seen the defense some of the time, and the overall intelligence of GGG is excellent.


-mortcola :

Lesser boxers with lesser tools have won. Matter of fact, there is a long trail littered with pugs having all the tools getting their arses thrashed by tool-less ones. Holla!
Yes. The inferior fighter wins. Uh-Huh. I mean, no, occasionally, due to some intangibles. But not usually.


-Radam G :

Yes. The inferior fighter wins. Uh-Huh. I mean, no, occasionally, due to some intangibles. But not usually.
I was going to use "intangibles." In so-called super scraps, the alleged "inferior" pug wins more than 50 percent of the time. If one wants to, he can easily holla at them. The "theatre of the unexpected" is mad kind to "the inferior" pugs. Holla!


-stormcentre :

We shall see hopefully in September.
I will give you 3g and I will take Canelo. Three g has a lot of magnetism and charisma. But that does not win "Big drama" scraps. Holla!
Duly noted NostRADAMazz. This will go down as (yet) another great voodoo forecast, prediction, and example of the thinking behind your ""I know every iota of the boxing game"" claim. As such . . . Looking in my crystal ball . . . . what do I see. :)

Good (voodoo) lord . . . I see strange visions of a burning man running around in circles like a headless chicken . . . wait . . hold on . . What's he doing with his hands . . . He's carrying a box in one hand labeled "Youngevity cures cancer" on it . . . And in the other . . In that one, he seems to be carrying a small box with a 2 lettered acronym on it . . . "K" something . . . Not sure what the other letter is, and/or what it all means for this crystal ball forecasting session, but see for yourself here . . .

Oh my god . . . Now I understand . . . . I think I have just peered into the future and channeled Brother Voodoo leaving Wallach's house upon hearing the news that Canelo was beaten by 3G, and now he's about to . . . Hold on . . . the image is (just as when you ask BV to explain) shifting again. . . What's BV doing now . . . Hold on . . looks like he's running around in circles in a public park. He appears to be jumping up and down . . . almost as if he's trying to head-butt the brightest light from the moon as it rakes itself through the trees . . . Only last week BV was busted photographing street lights from oblique angles and claiming he had spotted a UFO, and now he's running around the park head-butting moonbeams; geez . . . who said this cat is not a Genius? Now he's doing something else . . . Now, he appears to be busily/desperately PM-ing everyone for support on the TSS forum website . . . But for what possible reason??? Surely he knows everyone there is aware of his penchant for both, fiction and his "failure is an option" motto. So, what does all this mean? Ahh . . . now I understand. He's busily/desperately PM-ing everyone for support on the TSS forum website to save face . . . Sorry for the disjointed crystal ball read folks . . . the haziness was my fault, as the crystal ball speaks in many languages and I am not familiar with them all; especially those that are utilized to convey concealed acts of voodoo, deceit and inconsistency. What the crystal ball is (really) saying about the future, is this . . . Brother Voodoo is, in the park, "again" channeling (this time spiritually) - after having "previously" channeled (you know how :) ) Wallach . . . . From there - and after hearing that yet another bosking-prediction of his has fallen flat on its face, itself drawing into question all the twisted logic that came before it that backed BV into the corner where he felt he had to make such a prediction in the first (hundredth?) place - it appears that BV decided to gallop and Hee-Haw around the park . . . For the purposes of nothing other than finding the best available moonlight rays to stimulate his follicular scalp-hair growth . . .. . almost like he's trying to catch rays of "MoonlightMakeMyHairGrowBack" . . . so he can use that (totally incredible) claim as a (pretend) fall back position when the (headless) chickens finally all come home to roost on yet;


A) Not only another doomed prediction; 3G V Canelo.
B) But also, what it all means for Donkey's (laughable/pretend) *claim that his truth/hit rate is *better than 95%.

*
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?26194-Canelo-Hasn-t-Improved-Since-Fighting-Mayweather&p=97467&viewfull=1#post97467 *
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?26194-Canelo-Hasn-t-Improved-Since-Fighting-Mayweather&p=97469&viewfull=1#post97469



But that's not all folks . . . Just like a good and unbelievable steak knife advertorial, there's more . . . Yep, there seems to be another purpose that this strange (Donkey) behavior may serve . . . Ahh yes . . . It's none other than Brother Voodoo's schitziod alter ego (remember, BV shares the same theatre {of the unexpected} consciousness with many other identities; each as equally allergic to the truth and explaining as the other) Donkey's way of;


A) Not just saving face for another doomed fight prediction.
B) But also distracting/misdirecting away from it.

Yep, folks all that's going on here (in the predictable future) is DonkeyMagic is - after superbly polishing and cleaning Wallach's 7" (floor-stander) clock - galloping around the park as he whips and channels up a decent 3GVCaneloLossExcuse. In true (i) ""~Wow! That is a BIG, BIG myth about Da Manny not being dangerous while back up"", (ii) PacLossExcuse, and (i) SpenceDummySpit, style.

~
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20143-So-Floyd-Has-Been-Hurting-Sparring-Partners&p=77625&viewfull=1#post77625

OK, that's enough Storm-crystal ball gazing for now. Please remember . . . but of course, none of this will really happen. Because
Storm doesn't have an "actuality of the reality" hit rate anywhere near BrotherVoodoo and/or RandomRadam's proven ("re-actuality of the non-reality"?) 96.4576 percentage rate.

Back to 3G's fighting/winning approach. 3G, is, to me, more like Chavez Sr. than Duran; in his particular approach (not necessarily style) to beating and taking opponents out. Whilst Triple certainly has his achievement and skill limits, and whilst they may be defined (regardless of weight) as Andre Ward; Triple is not necessarily one of these guys that you can judge his achievement ceiling by how over-managed and/or questionably matched, he is. For some guys that can be a strong indicator of their potential. But that's not necessarily the case with 3G. He would have hurt and probably beaten the same prime Carl Froch that pretty much, either went through most good middleweights a few years back, or lost without shame to a few. This is why Carl knew not to fight 3G. It's not like living and fighting as an amateur, in the UK - as Carl did - meant he had never heard of Triple. No one wants to finish their boxing career on their back, and whilst Carl would have a better chance in his prime he knew coming back to fight Triple was a recipe for suicide. As does Oscar. Financial suicide. Particularly without a contracted advantage. Hence the reason why Canelo always campaigns at 155 and in a way where no fight can (usually) occur without the scales tipped in Canelos (and therefore Oscar's) favor. Oscar knows boxing. So do the guys that manage Saul. Regardless of whether Oscar lives up to the impressions that he provided directly after Kahn V Canelo, by way of genuinely making the Canelo V Tripl fight; the fact of the matter is that they are not all running towards easy targets and looking for reasons not to fight Triple because . . . they believe Saul will easily beat Gennady. Triple will dismantle Canelo, and Canelo will hardly significantly/meaningfully hurt Triple in the process. Aside from the threat of Ward, had Triple been in the Super 6 Tourney that gave birth to both Ward and Froch a stars; I am pretty sure 3G would have won it. Now, to your (insightful) comments in post # 29, here . . .

""Excess weight lost matters more than size and rehydration, especially for a growing kid not being able to use TUE of 750 whachamacalla. Hehe!""
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?26194-Canelo-Hasn-t-Improved-Since-Fighting-Mayweather&p=97481&viewfull=1#post97481

Can you please explain (sorry I know you hate that word, but as a DoubleWorlChampion you should get used to it) what this means for Pac's accomplishments then? It's a fair and simple question my magical voodoo practitioner. As Pac;

Not only, himself failed to use the option of a TUE "before" MayPac, despite how;
a) PacRoach have both confirmed they knew of the/his PacLossInjuryExcuse beforehand.
b) Doing so would add legitimacy to his PacLossInjuryExcuse.
c) Doing so would have probably also prevented the need for Pac's fraudulent NSAC application. But also, set a great deal of his greatest wins and indeed his career as an all time great in motion, straight off the back of (if not PEDs then unquestionably) catch-weight contracted bouts.

How's that magical spiritual world (and your 96.4576 percentage truth/hit rate, from which it comes from) going now? Lots of love.
Storm. :) :)


-stormcentre :

We shall see hopefully in September.
I will give you 3g and I will take Canelo. Three g has a lot of magnetism and charisma. But that does not win "Big drama" scraps. Holla!
Duly noted NostRADAMazz. This will go down as (yet) another great voodoo forecast, prediction, and example of the thinking behind your ""I know every iota of the boxing game"" claim. As such . . . Looking in my crystal ball . . . . what do I see. :)

Good (voodoo) lord . . . I see strange visions of a burning man running around in circles like a headless chicken . . . wait . . hold on . . What's he doing with his hands . . . He's carrying a box in one hand labeled "Youngevity cures cancer" on it . . . And in the other . . In that one, he seems to be carrying a small box with a 2 lettered acronym on it . . . "K" something . . . Not sure what the other letter is, and/or what it all means for this crystal ball forecasting session, but see for yourself here . . .

Oh my god . . . Now I understand . . . . I think I have just peered into the future and channeled Brother Voodoo leaving Wallach's house upon hearing the news that Canelo was beaten by 3G, and now he's about to . . . Hold on . . . the image is (just as when you ask BV to explain) shifting again. . . What's BV doing now . . . Hold on . . looks like he's running around in circles in a public park. He appears to be jumping up and down . . . almost as if he's trying to head-butt the brightest light from the moon as it rakes itself through the trees . . . Only last week BV was busted photographing street lights from oblique angles and claiming he had spotted a UFO, and now he's running around the park head-butting moonbeams; geez . . . who said this cat is not a Genius? Now he's doing something else . . . Now, he appears to be busily/desperately PM-ing everyone for support on the TSS forum website . . . But for what possible reason??? Surely he knows everyone there is aware of his penchant for both, fiction and his "failure is an option" motto. So, what does all this mean? Ahh . . . now I understand. He's busily/desperately PM-ing everyone for support on the TSS forum website to save face . . . Sorry for the disjointed crystal ball read folks . . . the haziness was my fault, as the crystal ball speaks in many languages and I am not familiar with them all; especially those that are utilized to convey concealed acts of voodoo, deceit and inconsistency. What the crystal ball is (really) saying about the future, is this . . . Brother Voodoo is, in the park, "again" channeling (this time spiritually) - after having "previously" channeled (you know how :) ) Wallach . . . . From there - and after hearing that yet another bosking-prediction of his has fallen flat on its face, itself drawing into question all the twisted logic that came before it that backed BV into the corner where he felt he had to make such a prediction in the first (hundredth?) place - it appears that BV decided to gallop and Hee-Haw around the park . . . For the purposes of nothing other than finding the best available moonlight rays to stimulate his follicular scalp-hair growth . . .. . almost like he's trying to catch rays of "MoonlightMakeMyHairGrowBack" . . . so he can use that (totally incredible) claim as a (pretend) fall back position when the (headless) chickens finally all come home to roost on yet;


A) Not only another doomed prediction; 3G V Canelo.
B) But also, what it all means for Donkey's (laughable/pretend) *claim that his truth/hit rate is *better than 95%.

*
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?26194-Canelo-Hasn-t-Improved-Since-Fighting-Mayweather&p=97467&viewfull=1#post97467 *
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?26194-Canelo-Hasn-t-Improved-Since-Fighting-Mayweather&p=97469&viewfull=1#post97469



But that's not all folks . . . Just like a good and unbelievable steak knife advertorial, there's more . . . Yep, there seems to be another purpose that this strange (Donkey) behavior may serve . . . Ahh yes . . . It's none other than Brother Voodoo's schitziod alter ego (remember, BV shares the same theatre {of the unexpected} consciousness with many other identities; each as equally allergic to the truth and explaining as the other) Donkey's way of;


A) Not just saving face for another doomed fight prediction.
B) But also distracting/misdirecting away from it.

Yep, folks all that's going on here (in the predictable future) is DonkeyMagic is - after superbly polishing and cleaning Wallach's 7" (floor-stander) clock - galloping around the park as he whips and channels up a decent 3GVCaneloLossExcuse. In true (i) ""~Wow! That is a BIG, BIG myth about Da Manny not being dangerous while back up"", (ii) PacLossExcuse, and (i) SpenceDummySpit, style.

~
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20143-So-Floyd-Has-Been-Hurting-Sparring-Partners&p=77625&viewfull=1#post77625

OK, that's enough Storm-crystal ball gazing for now. Please remember . . . but of course, none of this will really happen. Because
Storm doesn't have an "actuality of the reality" hit rate anywhere near BrotherVoodoo and/or RandomRadam's proven ("re-actuality of the non-reality"?) 96.4576 percentage rate.

Back to 3G's fighting/winning approach. 3G, is, to me, more like Chavez Sr. than Duran; in his particular approach (not necessarily style) to beating and taking opponents out. Whilst Triple certainly has his achievement and skill limits, and whilst they may be defined (regardless of weight) as Andre Ward; Triple is not necessarily one of these guys that you can judge his achievement ceiling by how over-managed and/or questionably matched, he is. For some guys that can be a strong indicator of their potential. But that's not necessarily the case with 3G. He would have hurt and probably beaten the same prime Carl Froch that pretty much, either went through most good middleweights a few years back, or lost without shame to a few. This is why Carl knew not to fight 3G. It's not like living and fighting as an amateur, in the UK - as Carl did - meant he had never heard of Triple. No one wants to finish their boxing career on their back, and whilst Carl would have a better chance in his prime he knew coming back to fight Triple was a recipe for suicide. As does Oscar. Financial suicide. Particularly without a contracted advantage. Hence the reason why Canelo always campaigns at 155 and in a way where no fight can (usually) occur without the scales tipped in Canelos (and therefore Oscar's) favor. Oscar knows boxing. So do the guys that manage Saul. Regardless of whether Oscar lives up to the impressions that he provided directly after Kahn V Canelo, by way of genuinely making the Canelo V Tripl fight; the fact of the matter is that they are not all running towards easy targets and looking for reasons not to fight Triple because . . . they believe Saul will easily beat Gennady. Triple will dismantle Canelo, and Canelo will hardly significantly/meaningfully hurt Triple in the process. Aside from the threat of Ward, had Triple been in the Super 6 Tourney that gave birth to both Ward and Froch a stars; I am pretty sure 3G would have won it. Now, to your (insightful) comments in post # 29, here . . .

""Excess weight lost matters more than size and rehydration, especially for a growing kid not being able to use TUE of 750 whachamacalla. Hehe!""
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?26194-Canelo-Hasn-t-Improved-Since-Fighting-Mayweather&p=97481&viewfull=1#post97481

Can you please explain (sorry I know you hate that word, but as a DoubleWorlChampion you should get used to it) what this means for Pac's accomplishments then? It's a fair and simple question my magical voodoo practitioner. As Pac;

Not only, himself failed to use the option of a TUE "before" MayPac, despite how;
a) PacRoach have both confirmed they knew of the/his PacLossInjuryExcuse beforehand.
b) Doing so would add legitimacy to his PacLossInjuryExcuse.
c) Doing so would have probably also prevented the need for Pac's fraudulent NSAC application. But also, set a great deal of his greatest wins and indeed his career as an all time great in motion, straight off the back of (if not PEDs then unquestionably) catch-weight contracted bouts.

How's that magical spiritual world (and your 96.4576 percentage truth/hit rate, from which it comes from) going now? Lots of love.
Storm. :) :)


-SuperLight :

I'm enjoying this debate. If and when this happens, with or without a catchweight, I wouldn't put it past Golovkin to come in under 160 LB on fight night and still have Canelo's arse. Radam, I wouldn't be so quick to write off Golovkin's amateur experience. We know there have been quite a few champions with limited amateur experience, and conversely many excellent amateur fighters who never make it as pros. However, I can think of a few famous American fighters over the decades, in various weight classes, who did well at the Olympics and carried on to be all-time great pro fighters. Moreover, I think there's something a bit special about the Eastern style of training and/or fighting, that instils something special in its exponents with hundreds of amateur bouts under their belts.


-Domenic :

The beauty of this thread is it reflects the fact that a growing faction exists out there that fully believes Canelo will destroy Golovkin. That's crucial because without that sentiment, you've got no fight. I think Golovkin allows himself to be hit. Against Monroe, for example, he absolutely knew Willie couldn't hurt him, even with his Sunday's best shot. So he allowed himself to absorb those shots in the 5th round, shots he knew were coming, then promptly dispatched him in the early 6th. Golovkin won't get hit by the shot that put Khan to sleep, that's for sure. Plus, I predict that Golovkin will shine even more when he gets his biggest stage. I am all in on Golovkin by early, Hagler - Hearns type stoppage, and hope the odds keep trending down, down, down.


-stormcentre :

I'm enjoying this debate. If and when this happens, with or without a catchweight, I wouldn't put it past Golovkin to come in under 160 LB on fight night and still have Canelo's arse. Radam, I wouldn't be so quick to write off Golovkin's amateur experience. We know there have been quite a few champions with limited amateur experience, and conversely many excellent amateur fighters who never make it as pros. However, I can think of a few famous American fighters over the decades, in various weight classes, who did well at the Olympics and carried on to be all-time great pro fighters.
Moreover, I think there's something a bit special about the Eastern style of training and/or fighting, that instils something special in its exponents with hundreds of amateur bouts under their belts.
You're right. The Eastern Bloc amateur program and their (boxing and other combat sports) training/strength regimes are pretty much second to none. No offence to the USA, UK, Cuban, and Aussie cats out there. But, as far as the strength and stamina training goes, I have not seen a better program than that which is stereotypically used in the Eastern Bloc region. That's why when these Eastern Bloc programs are combined with a great technique program, routine, or trainer/gym, most top level Eastern Bloc fighters are not only pretty dominant - but also grow into KO artists. Agree with Domenic too . . . It's good (for boxing) that some folk think Canelo will win. Actually, it's good (for boxing) if he wins too; I don't really care if he does - I just think he won't. And yes, of course (since I have already stated it), I think 3G will dominate and hurt Canelo. I am going to be really surprised to see that Oscar genuinely ensures the fight is made in a timely manner and also at the weight Canelo wants without him giving in on that more than, say, a few pounds. The way Sanchez and Triple are talking . . . It's like they don't care if they knock Canelo out for the belt or not; either way they're having it only 2 ways;

1) By fighting Canelo at the official weight thresholds. 2) By Canelo opting to not fight at the official weight thresholds, and therefore forfeiting the title/belt.

As far as I can tell, Sanchez (and Triple) sounds/seems pretty adamant that he's going to make a statement with either of those 2 options. :) :)


-Kid Blast :

Poor Danny Jacobs seems to have vanished in this debate.


-Radam G :

I'm enjoying this debate. If and when this happens, with or without a catchweight, I wouldn't put it past Golovkin to come in under 160 LB on fight night and still have Canelo's arse. Radam, I wouldn't be so quick to write off Golovkin's amateur experience. We know there have been quite a few champions with limited amateur experience, and conversely many excellent amateur fighters who never make it as pros. However, I can think of a few famous American fighters over the decades, in various weight classes, who did well at the Olympics and carried on to be all-time great pro fighters. Moreover, I think there's something a bit special about the Eastern style of training and/or fighting, that instils something special in its exponents with hundreds of amateur bouts under their belts.
Wow! I did not write off his amateur career. Myself, I had 348 amateur scraps. And the amateurs is distinctly not the pros -- not even close. Ninety percent of amateurs are completely changed around as a pros. Three g was one of them. Go and holla at it for yourself. BTW, the amateur hotshots that do extremely well in the pros already have pro styles coming out of the amateurs. Plus we sparred with pros on da reg. And are passionately called "damn pros" fighting in the amateurs. The great amateurs that didn't become great or good pros were because of committed amateur styles. Most amateur medalists in the O-games and world and national amateur scraps don't do syet in the pros. Holla!


-amayseng :

Key question. I've watched him slip and counter effectively, very conscious of what is coming at him. I've complained about his tendency to "grandstand" for Drama Show - or, letting the other guy just tee off (like Monroe) to get him to open up, get false confidence, and tire his arms out, reflecting a perhaps foolish faith in his own chin, unless he really know that what he's being hit with doesn't hurt. After 9 million fights, its gonna crack one day. But I bet that against a known puncher with a rep and something to prove, he is smart boxer-puncher who doesn't absorb what he doesn't have to. My assumption, since I've seen the defense some of the time, and the overall intelligence of GGG is excellent.
He did not let DL tee off on him, GGG knows what he is doing. Yes his D is excellent, those who doubt him forget GGG controls what he does, being so offensive he will take some light work to give his life wrecking shots. I am with you all the way


-stormcentre :

Wow! I did not write off his amateur career.
Myself, I had 348 amateur scraps.
:)


-mortcola :

The beauty of this thread is it reflects the fact that a growing faction exists out there that fully believes Canelo will destroy Golovkin. That's crucial because without that sentiment, you've got no fight. I think Golovkin allows himself to be hit. Against Monroe, for example, he absolutely knew Willie couldn't hurt him, even with his Sunday's best shot. So he allowed himself to absorb those shots in the 5th round, shots he knew were coming, then promptly dispatched him in the early 6th. Golovkin won't get hit by the shot that put Khan to sleep, that's for sure. Plus, I predict that Golovkin will shine even more when he gets his biggest stage. I am all in on Golovkin by early, Hagler - Hearns type stoppage, and hope the odds keep trending down, down, down.
We have written the same post, in slightly different words. I'm encouraged that it is that clear, two o f us and more seeing through the hype to the obvious - Canelo has no advantages in this fight, other than the lucky punch factor that everyone brings into the ring with them, and the hypothetical that the opponent (GGG, I mean) will finally show a crack in his chin. But there's just no evidence for that, of any kind


-mortcola :

I was going to use "intangibles." In so-called super scraps, the alleged "inferior" pug wins more than 50 percent of the time. If one wants to, he can easily holla at them. The "theatre of the unexpected" is mad kind to "the inferior" pugs. Holla!
Huh? The underdog wins more often than loses? This is getting interesting, from a bizarro-world point of view.


-Yogo :

It's great this is generating discussion, it'll be even greater if it happens. Big Money Oscar must regret the monster charlie sessions during the big fights. He's called out Triple and he knows it's curtains for his boy. Radam are you putting us on? What happened to the Red Hype? I actually thing Saul puts up a fine display but is ultimately chopped down.


-Radam G :

It's great this is generating discussion, it'll be even greater if it happens. Big Money Oscar must regret the monster charlie sessions during the big fights. He's called out Triple and he knows it's curtains for his boy. Radam are you putting us on? What happened to the Red Hype? I actually thing Saul puts up a fine display but is ultimately chopped down.
The "Red-headed Hype" quit the fronting and bullsyetting and got serious wif it and learned to put in dat work. I know this for sure because I witnessed it for myself down at his training camp in San Diego, Cali, USA. I've been on the U.S. mainland in Diego since April. My 9-year-old is fighting in the U.S. National Juniors in June before we go back to the P-Islands. I would never put you on. I always call a spade a spade, and I never hide in the shade -- just in plain sight. Hehe! Holla!


-amayseng :

The "Red-headed Hype" quit the fronting and bullsyetting and got serious wif it and learned to put in dat work. I know this for sure because I witnessed it for myself down at his training camp in San Diego, Cali, USA. I've been on the U.S. mainland in Diego since April. My 9-year-old is fighting in the U.S. National Juniors in June before we go back to the P-Islands. I would never put you on. I always call a spade a spade, and I never hide in the shade -- just in plain sight. Hehe! Holla!
Canelo may be coming into his own, but he is still a level below GGG, if not a few.