Hauser Fires At USADA and Floyd; USADA Then Floyd Respond

THURSDAY, Sept. 17 Update: USADA has fired a combination, a 25 pager, back at writer Thomas Hauser.

“On September 9, 2015, SB Nation posted an article written by Mr. Thomas Hauser that contained no less than 40 inaccurate facts and misleading statements, as well as quotes from un-named, un-informed or self-interested sources about USADA and our role in anti-doping in the sport of professional boxing,” reads the intro to their counter-punch, found on their website.

“In order to provide truthful and accurate facts, and to stop the perpetuation of further rumors, speculation and false information, USADA has provided a detailed 25 page fact correction of the full article which can be found HERE.”

Then, a couple hours later, this, from TSS’ Hauser:

Statement of Thomas Hauser with Regard to the

September 17, 2015, Comments by USADA

USADA’s response is long on verbiage and short on documented facts. I intend to write another longform article on this subject at some point in the future. For now, I note the following:

 

(1) The USADA statement goes to great lengths to discredit Victor Conte, attacking him on three separate occasions for past misdeeds (which I referenced in “Can Boxing Trust USADA?”). USADA also states that I “cherry picked Jeff Novitzky’s response to questions posed to him by Mr. Rogan regarding Victor Conte.”

 

Mr. Novitzky’s remarks came in an interview conducted by Joe Rogan last month (The Joe Rogan Experience #685). In that interview, Mr. Rogan and Mr. Novitzky also discussed IVs. Let’s pick a whole barrel of cherries:

 

Joe Rogan: “What’s the reason why they can’t use an IV? Is it to mask possible performance enhancing drugs?”

   

Jeff Novitzsky: “That’s the primary reason. I saw it up front and center in cycling. They were using IVs of saline solution to manipulate their blood level readings, which were being used to determine if they were blood doping. It could also be used to flush a system. It dilutes blood and urine so that natural steroid profiles are very hard to read after you’ve taken an IV bag. That’s the primary reason. WADA also prohibits them for some health reasons. When an IV is administered, especially close to a competition, there’s a possibility of blowing out a vein or having clotting after the IV is taken out. There could be some issues with edema and swelling. If the idea is to rehydrate, it’s much safer to do it orally. Studies show that orally rehydrating is better for you if you’re mildly dehydrated. There’s two things that they show consistently. Number one, it’s obviously safer to put something through your mouth than put it in a needle in your vein. Number two, your perceived rate of exertion, how hard you feel you’re working after rehydrating orally, is less than if you rehydrate via IV. If you rehydrate orally properly, the next day you’re going to feel a whole lot better when you’re exerting yourself.”

   

“Now that’s mild dehydration,” Novitzky added. As for extreme dehydration, Novitzky suggested, “You probably should go to a hospital. [And] I think you need to notify the commission where you’re fighting.”

 

If Floyd Mayweather was dehydrated after the May 1 weigh-in, the USADA doping control officer could have given him several glasses of water. USADA has yet to explain the medical justification and supporting data that led it to grant a retroactive therapeutic use exemption nineteen days after the fact for a procedure that’s on the World Anti-Doping Agency’s “Prohibited Substances and Methods List”.

 

 

(2) Most of the public attention regarding “Can Boxing Trust USADA?” has focussed on the IV that was administered to Floyd Mayweather one day before his fight against Manny Pacquiao. However, the article also references the two testosterone-to-epitestosterone-ratio test results regarding Mr. Mayweather that were made available to this writer. It would be instructive if Mr. Mayweather granted a waiver to USADA allowing it to release the testosterone-to-epitestosterone-ratio test results for each urine test administered to him by USADA for each of his fights beginning with Mayweather vs. Shane Mosley up to and including Mayweather vs. Andre Berto. 3) The issues involved here go far beyond Floyd Mayweather. In that regard, I note that USADA’s contention that it advised the New York State Athletic Commission on October 17, 2012, concerning Erik Morales testing positive for Clenbuterol is rebutted by the statement of Laz Benitez (a spokesperson for the New York State Department of State, which oversees the NYSAC). On August 10, 2015, Mr. Benitez advised in writing, “There is no indication in the Commission’s files that it was notified of this matter prior to October 18, 2012.”

FRIDAY, Sept. 11 AM UPDATE: Manny Pacquiao, who himself has been under a spotlight, a big one held up by Floyd “Take The Test” Mayweather, reacted to the Thomas Hauser story. “Truth finally came out and I was vindicated,” he told Abac Cordero of The Phillipine Star. “mayweather camp used to accuse me of using PED, now look what happened. I hope Floyd Mayweather would learn a lesson out of it.”

Interesting stuff…

It is no secret in certain circles, many of them public, as people like Paul Malignaggi have been vocal about their suspicions of the Pacquiao power surge in later years, and then dropoff, that some presume Manny used.

Floyd himself toyed with the issue before they fought, needling–pun intended, I suppose–Team Pacquiao by pointing to ex strength and conditioning man Alex Ariza as an integral part of Manny’s success. This was in the context of Pacman trainer Freddie Roach having accused Ariza of giving his guy “shady” drinks with undisclosed chemicals in them when he was with the Congressman.

Mud is still being slung, friends. No surprise, there is immense money, and pride, and legacies at stake here.

ALSO: Sides are being taken, and the messenger, Hauser, is being fired upon. Kill the messenger if the message is disagreeable, a time honored if not honorable tradition.

The catalyst for that can be varied; some writers, I think, like their Floyd access and are sucking up.

Others, I’ve seen this from a couple “young guns,” might be suffering from envy issues. Rather than choosing to primarily parse the material, and ponder what it truly means IF the sport’s marquee star, a vocal anti-PED activist, has in fact used PEDs, some are choosing to focus on what they perceive as a journalistic misstep. They say that Hauser is biased, being that he works for HBO. And he didn’t disclose that, they rail. To the contrary, he did. See this: https://twitter.com/Woodsy1069/status/642353071247466498

We can check their, and for that matter, my archive in ten years, and if we make 25% of the impact Hauser has in his four decades in this sphere, then we will have done well. Investigative journalism is REALLY hard, and how it is done isn’t really taught in textbooks. I’m seeing a lot of criticism at a superlative talent, but I suppose that comes with that territory…

Let me be clear, I question myself all the time about how to play a story. Go negative all the time and you get a rep as a toxic type, and you get avoided. Plus, it’s too gloomy to always be looking for the bad. But journos are always doing a balancing act: how to do the right thing, keep sources, maintain a balance..and it is what it is. But I don’t care for some of these guys out there acting like they are the gold standard of ultra-professionalism, telling you they only write the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and are completely immune from political pressures, whether it be from sources, potential sources, or their employers. (You saw an ESPN non-boxing story get an after-posting edit to soften wording harsh versus the NFL, a partner to that cabler…so this happens, all the time. Writers get impacted by politics, overtly, or covertly, oftentimes subconsciously.) I call BS. All of us can simply do the best we can, at all times…and I think most do.

END RANT.

—————————————————————————————————————————

2:10 (ET) THURSDAY UPDATE: Thomas Hauser has released his own statement, responding to the one put out by USADA late Thursday morning. The author chooses a high degree of specificity in his comeback, you will note:

Statement of Thomas Hauser with Regard to the

September 10, 2015, Comments by Annie Skinner on Behalf of USADA

No amount of self-serving rhetoric from USADA can change the following unrebutted facts:

(1) The IV was administered at Floyd Mayweather’s home after the weigh-in on May 1. USADA learned about the IV on that date.

(2) The 2015 WADA “Prohibited Substances and Methods List” states, “Intravenous infusions and/or injections of more than 50 ml per 6 hour period are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions, surgical procedures, or clinical investigations.”

(3) The above-referenced prohibition is in effect at all times that the athlete is subject to testing. It exists because, in addition to being administered for the purpose of adding specific substances to a person’s body, an IV infusion can dilute or mask the presence of another substance that is already in the recipient’s system or might be added to it in the near future.

(4) Mayweather-Pacquiao was contested on May 2.

(5) Mayweather applied for a therapeutic use exemption on May 19 (seventeen days after the fight).

(6) USADA granted the therapeutic use exemption on May 20 (eighteen days after the fight).

(7) USADA did not notify the Nevada State Athletic Commission about the IV until May 21 (nineteen days after the fight).

Meanwhile, on May 2 (fight night), Manny Pacquiao’s request to be injected with Toradol (a legal substance) to ease the pain caused by a torn rotator cuff was denied by the Nevada State Athletic Commission because the request was not made in a timely manner.

It would be helpful if Travis Tygart or his spokesperson answered the following questions directly:

(1) What was the medical justification and supporting data that led to USADA granting the therapeutic use exemption for an otherwise prohibited IV procedure?

(2) On how many occasions has the “A” sample of a professional boxer tested by USADA come back positive for a prohibited substance?

(3) What was the testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for each urine test administered to Floyd Mayweather by USADA for each of his fights beginning with Mayweather vs. Shane Mosley up to and including Mayweather vs. Andre Berto?

(4) Does USADA still maintain that it handled the Erik Morales matter correctly?

2 PM (ET) THURSDAY UPDATE: Floyd Mayweather almost 24 hours after Thomas Hausers’ scathing scrutinizer looked at USADA’s testing record in boxing and their handling of Mayweathers’ samples and the protocol involving the sport’s marquee name, responded. His statement is brief:

FLOYD MAYWEATHER STATEMENT

“As already confirmed by the USADA Statement, I did not commit any violations of the Nevada or USADA drug testing guidelines. I follow and have always followed the rules of Nevada and USADA, the gold standard of drug testing.

“Let’s not forget that I was the one six years ago who insisted on elevating the level of drug testing for all my fights. As a result, there is more drug testing and awareness of its importance in the sport of boxing today than ever before.

“I am very proud to be a clean athlete and will continue to champion the cause.”

Thursday AM: Thomas Hauser wrote a lengthy report which scrutinized testing agency USADA and looked long and hard at “TBE” Floyd Mayweather, and his PED testing history, and recent handling of his testing.

The story, which conjured serious questions about the integrity of USADA and Mayweather, who has painted himself as a cleanup agent within the sport, blew up at lunch yesterday and continues to pick up steam, into the mainstream media today, two days before Mayweathers’ supposed last-ever bout, against Floyd Mayweather.

Here is the Hauser piece:

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada

I asked USADA to respond and they did. That follows.

I also asked Mayweather publicist Kelly Swanson to respond, soon after the Hauser story came out, and she didn’t reply. (Her office sent out a release on Thursday, at about 1:30 PM ET.)

I messaged the Nevada commission to seek their take and am awaiting a response.

I will also post some responses to questions I had from Hauser, who frequently contributes to this site, shortly.

Here is the USADA response, which arrived before noon ET on Thursday.

USADA Statement on Inaccurate News Reports Regarding the Sport of Pro Boxing

Whether due to a genuine misunderstanding of the facts or an intentional desire to mislead, numerous unfounded and false accusations have been leveled against USADA in recent on-line articles. Since our inception, USADA’s sole mission has been to protect clean sport. As such, it is unfortunate and extremely disappointing to have to address articles riddled with significant inaccuracies and misrepresentations based on unsubstantiated rumors as well as anonymous or self-interested sources that have recklessly called our integrity into question. It is simply absurd to suggest that we would ever compromise our integrity for any sport or athlete.

Although the articles in question contain a multitude of errors, all of which will be addressed at the appropriate time, we believe it is important to immediately correct the record regarding the false suggestion that Mayweather violated the rules by receiving an IV infusion of saline and vitamins.

As was already publicly reported in May of this year by the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC), Mr. Mayweather applied for and was granted a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) by USADA for an IV infusion of saline and vitamins that was administered prior to his May 2 fight against Manny Pacquiao. Mr. Mayweather’s use of the IV was not prohibited under the NSAC rules at that time and would not be a violation of the NSAC rules today. Nonetheless, because Mr. Mayweather was voluntarily taking part in a USADA program, and therefore subject to the rules of the WADA Code, he took the additional step of applying for a TUE after the IV infusion was administered in order remain in compliance with the USADA program. Although Mr. Mayweather’s application was not approved until after his fight with Mr. Pacquiao and all tests results were reported, Mr. Mayweather did disclose the infusion to USADA in advance of the IV being administered to him. Furthermore, once the TUE was granted, the NSAC and Mr. Pacquiao were immediately notified even though the practice is not prohibited under NSAC rules.

Over the past six years USADA has conducted anti-doping programs for over 45 fights in the sport of professional boxing, and each of those programs has been conducted in accordance with the WADA Code and the International Standards. As a result, every athlete who has participated in one of our programs has voluntarily agreed to abide by the rules of the WADA Code and willingly subjected themselves to substantially more stringent testing protocols than they otherwise would have been subject to.

There are certainly those in the sport of professional boxing who appear committed to preventing an independent and comprehensive anti-doping program from being implemented in the sport, and who wish to advance an agenda that fails to put the interests of clean athletes before their own. Despite that opposition, we will continue to demonstrate to the clean athletes we serve, the sport partners we work with, and all those who share the ideal of fair competition, that we remain committed to our mission of protecting the rights of clean athletes and the integrity of competition.

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COMMENTS

-deepwater2 :

Although the articles in question contain a multitude of errors, all of which will be addressed at the appropriate time,=Now is the appropriate time. Mayweather applied for and was granted a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) by USADA= Only the NSAC can grant a TUE not the drug testing people. Over the past six years USADA has conducted anti-doping programs for over 45 fights= How many boxers have they caught in comparison to VADA? Saline and vitamins are not banned but the amount he used is banned.Lil Floyd injected way over the legal limit by IV in his house and not at a medical facility.. Why would a boxer that walks around close to the fighting weight need such a large amount of solution because of dehydration? Pedialyte would have done the job. THe USADA and the PBC outfit sure do seem like they are in cahoots.


-Froggy :

The USADA is the best dope testing agency Money May can buy !


-Radam G :

The USADA is the best dope testing agency Money May can buy !
Hehehe! No doubt! And Money May paid nicely $150,000 for service that he could have gotten for a low four figure. Holla!


-Kid Blast :

The only thing that was a fact in that whole long piece is USADA broke their own rules. But Hauser has had it in for Mayweather for a very long time, especially since he left HBO. Funny thing that the boxing "media" is reporting on this by calling Hauser "the dean of boxing writers." However the LA Times Lance Pugmire identified him "HBO employee" Thomas Hauser.


-Kid Blast :

"The fact that Hauser takes money from HBO Sports and has made it his mission to routinely investigate, criticize, and regurgitate old allegations into re-written attacks aimed at HBO?s business rivals can?t be overlooked. The focused attacks are especially troubling when one considers that HBO used to be Hauser?s favorite target?until the network threw money in his direction to get him to stop bloodying their lips and bruising their eyes. "Hauser?s problem is one that is all too common in the boxing media as many of the sport?s biggest voices also carry credibility-crippling conflicts of interest with them."


-amayseng :

Floyd is a cheat And Hauser just spanked USADA like a little girl


-Kid Blast :

"Hauser article was met by a USADA press release on Thursday, claiming the article had a “multitude of errors” due to “a genuine misunderstanding of the facts or an intentional desire to mislead.” ... "Hauser’s piece is on the money when it comes to spotlighting the need for a real, comprehensive and enforceable testing protocol, even though the intent seemed to be more “thumb in Mayweather’s eye” than reform-minded plea. The fact that he sat on this article for so long—only to release it during Mayweather-Berto fight week – speaks to Hauser’s mindset."


-Kid Blast :

"PEDs testing in boxing is a jumbled mess, but not much more so than journalism in boxing."


-Kid Blast :

Floyd is a cheat And Hauser just spanked USADA like a little girl
Yes, like a little girl. LOL


-Kid Blast :

says Hauser, "...the thoughts of Victor Conte are instructive." Really? A convicted felon. Hauser does not like Floyd. Floyd does not like Hauser. Hauser has attacked Floyd re spousal abuse. Floyd got even by keeping the HBO consultant out of the arena for the Pac fight based on a credentials issue. Now it's Hauser's turn. At the end of the day, anyone who can understand the poorly set forth gibberish in Hauser's latest article should receive an award. Me, I prefer Doctor Margerate Goodman who relies on her medical background rather than the garbage thrown out there by ex-cons and Hauser spies. For God's sakes, grow up. This is boxing. And you can't clean dirt"


-stormcentre :

OK, a few points . . . . The vitamin issue has already been discussed here before. Whilst not condoning the vitamin infusion; I am not sure about Conte's claim that drinking sea water would rehydrate you better than an IV infusion. We have a few forum members here that work in hospitals and the medical (or related) industries, perhaps they can advise as to why/when many hospitals prefer IV rehydration over other methods. I agree that an IV infusion is also an effective way to flush out and/or hide any unpermitted PED-like substances; as Conte says. Based on the contract that USADA designed it appears that Floyd has not done anything wrong (stay with me) due to the fact that; A) Not only did no-one appear to look deep enough into (the relevant clauses on) how the TUE mechanism would work after the fact, such as when/if an approved TUE application was forwarded and/or vetted (suspiciously or otherwise) by USADA. B) The USADA contract - as Hauser correctly states - cleverly shifts ?control? to USADA in the event there is an ?accidental? conflict between the contract?s contents and any other relevant regulations, rule, policy. On the above-mentioned points; ?B?; this type of contractual mechanism is not new, and I am not sure how it passed without Arum at least noticing it. I am pretty sure I would. Same for ?A?; personally, I'd like to think that I would have spotted that oversight and ensured that no TUE "approval" can be given (in retrospect) for any circumstances, particularly where therapuetical/other use of a banned/other substance has already taken place without prior agreement and/or USADA approval. That said, since the above-mentioned contractual matters are what they are, Floyd has not - as far as the USADA agreement is concerned - done anything gravely wrong; same can?t be said about USADA though. However, remaining on point with Floyd; the gun is certainly smoking I agree. Perhaps, not quite as heavily as having your trainers effectively admitting you're on PEDs - but nonetheless it's both smoking, and in need of a decent and plausible explanation from TMT. Don?t hold your breath as they?re as rare round these parts as Donkey truths, admissions, and clarifications. From what I can tell, a lot of the problems Hauser details seem to come from; A) USADA, how they operate and how they seem to constantly be favoured over VADA. I have written extensively about this and how wrong it is before - so no need to do it again. B) The fact that a fighter (Floyd in this case) can be both a promoter and competing boxer, and therefore both "call the shots" and also be "USADA's" client. For those who may not know - as surprising as it may seem - I have previously written about the likelihood that Floyd must have used PEDs before, however both; B1) the (factual - not emotional) evidence of such was not as strong as that related to Pac at that time. B2) at the same time, mass benefit of the doubt (and I mean massive) was being applied to Pacquiao and his (highly questionable) antics - to the extent that he was allotted a stunning degree of excuses and speculation; that - as we can see now - was almostly completely misaligned with what even his trainer and promoter have admitted. On point "B"; don't for a minute think Top Rank and Pacquaio (whilst not both a promoter and competing boxer) didn't previously - for many of Manny's big fights - have a similar or other arrangement that effectively yielded the same liberties, results, or lack of them. To do so would be extremely na?ve. Still, this does not mean that what Hauser reports of (with respect to Floyd) is incorrect. It must be said though, that Hauser has previously displayed a strong and extremely obvious penchant to be involved in Pacquaio's career trajectory, almost leaping at any opportunity to play the role of exclusive narrator - in equal, if not lesser, proportions to how much his nose was clearly put out of joint with PBC and TMT treatment of the media prior to and perhaps after MayPac. So, for those reasons I am cautious to quickly wade into the
Deepwater and accept all claims; not at least without thought and some pensive action. That said, at the same time I'm certainly not discounting the acceptability of some of the claims and arguments Hauser prosecutes either. As, some, I might add - as
Deep2water has stated in above posts - are not only hard to ignore - but also contructed exceptionally well and professionally. Hopefully - to belay some of my above-mentioned concerns about Hauser?s possible underlying motivation - Tom will apply his high powered perception toward Pacquaio also; so we can see just how rife the PED issue may be with both the leading welterweight fighters of this generation. As, there is an abundance of questions about Pacquaio that are as visibly circumvented and avoided - as his most scintillating performances have question marks over them; making for a treasure trove of insightful boxing article - if anyone dares that is. All up, though, (aside from any motivation Hauser may have due to vindictiveness) I'm glad there is a fighting/boxing journalist that has the balls to write in detail and with fighter's names about the PED issue; even if it is about Floyd. As, it's been a little lonely for poor old
StormCentre, putting all the detailed pieces of the PED scam together myself, and from within a forum where my poor little azz is often under fire from a ratio of shortsightedness and insight that can perhaps - if you let it - perform as an analogue of the below-mentioned backward testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios. Moving on . . . I laughed when Hauser quoted Conte about how PEDs may be used by Floyd, via the timing of opponent announcements and dictating when the testing occurs, . . . etc. Like . . ""Hello - you don't say"". ""Welcome to the party"". Works both ways; for the opponent too. The longer Floyd, Pacquaio, or any of the tens of other fighters that may use performance enhancing drugs leave it to announce their next fight/opponent; the longer then that the opponent gets to have the option of ?cycling? and ?using?. But nonetheless - as Hauser?s report states - this is exactly how to manage the "cycles" of polyPED use. Boxing - in many ways - actually lends itself to that type of approach almost better than any other sport. None of this will change the until courts force drug testing agencies to do their job properly (good luck with that). And, until promoters, fighters and sanctions all agree something along the (incomplete) lines as follows . . . 1) All top ten fighters (of all sanctions) must be subjected to random testing all year round - no exceptions. 2) All fighters that refuse, are out. 3) Start work on how to deal with infringements; 2 strikes and your out or something else? 4) Any fighter testing positive after a fight forfeits all (or some) of their purse (to fund the anti-PED measures defined herein) and title. 5) The title goes to the opponent provided he's PEDclean and compliant with other nonPED boxing rules/policies. 6) A law/policy needs to also exist whereby promoters are heavily fined if their fighters test use performance enhancing drugs and/or test positive; similarly to how publicans and licensed premises owners/operators are - in part - responsible for patrons conduct and inebriation. This would ensure that fighters - to ensure longevity of their career - feel a meaningful degree of pressure/heat to stay clean from promoters also. And, the aforementioned ?heat? that they feel from promoters also would, hopefully - perhaps in the same way and proportions to that motivation they possibly currently feel to use performance enhancing drugs to ensure longevity of their career - ensure they ceased and/or never commenced performance enhancing drug use. 7) Next? There is so much money at the top level of this game, it's impossible to believe that these measures can't at least begin to be walked towards. Whilst all the sanctions are effectively companies that exist to generate a profit - before anything else - and reside in geographically separate locations; good luck implementing even just the above short list. I noticed also in Hauser's report that he called for retrospective testing of Floyd's samples. I agree, that should happen. Disappointing he didn't use the wide brush with that stroke too and include Pacquaio and others - how much support this suggestion receives from the true, as they have been loosely referred to by some, ?peons? will indeed be telling, and not only in terms of how much hypocrisy exists on this matter in the forum. For all the above-mentioned reasons and more; this sport is rife with PED use that can possibly destroy a promotion, and that's really why USADA exists; if you know what I mean. Another thing; the effect on fighters energy and performance levels brought about not just by "cycling" in/out of various substances - but also by playing with their hormone/testostorone levels and/or testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios to deceive exogenous testosterone tests - is possibly another (un/obvious) reason why certain fighters seems to deliver flunky performances when otherwise deemed to be on fire. Especially leading up to and in their biggest fight; where the requirement and/or temptation to "play" with their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios may more than they can refuse. How often have we seen a fighter perform way, way below what their average usually is; even without stringent performance enhancing drugs testing? These fighters - after yielding the benefits from a decent polyPED/PED "cycle" leading into the fight and as they now (draw closer to the weigh in, and) begin to "play" with their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios in preparation for pre-fight testing - may just push their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios across to the other side; where their use of exogenous testosterone then pushes their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio down too far - negatively impacting any (illegitimate/legitimate) performance gains they may have otherwise accommodated within their pre-fight camp. Remember, also, it's not all physical either. Boxing and/or prizefighting has been said to be largely a psychological game. Imagine going from the powerful high and (illegitimate/legitimate) performance gains you have achieved all through camp - down to a real psychological low - just before the fight. I have no doubt this is exactly how Pacquaio felt just before MayPac. Low testosterone counts - high epitestosterone counts - goofy testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios - and a poorly mixed bag of hormone-lollies; will all do that for you. It?s not like the fighters can (yet) legally afford to have a Doctor on hand - like Lance Armstrong - to properly and safely administer all they may put in their bodies. In closing a few things; 1) I spotted a few more loopholes in the USADA contract than have been detailed; wonder if anyone else can see them too? 2) The timing of Hauser?s report - which I am sure is completely coincidental - does?t exactly fare well for Mayweather heading into his fight with Berto. 3) I am not going to be surprised to see Berto give Floyd some trouble and more of a fight than Pacquaio. 4) I am going to be surprised to see Hauser accurately investigate Pacquaio in the same manner as Floyd. 5) I am not going to be surprised to find out Floyd has been using performance enhancing drugs. 6) If Floyd has been using performance enhancing drugs, then - as per the relevant rules - then he should be stripped of his title; that is, provided he has not already relinquished it - note he made the announcement that this was going to happen pretty soon after winning. Coincidence? 7) If retrograde testing applies to Pacquaio and Floyd, and if both are discovered to be positive in title fights, then both guys should have their records suitable amended. OK boxing lovers that it for this
StormTrolling Peon for now. :) :)


-stormcentre :

OK, a few points . . . . The vitamin issue has already been discussed here before. Whilst not condoning the vitamin infusion; I am not sure about Conte's claim that drinking sea water would rehydrate you better than an IV infusion. We have a few forum members here that work in hospitals and the medical (or related) industries, perhaps they can advise as to why/when many hospitals prefer IV rehydration over other methods. I agree that an IV infusion is also an effective way to flush out and/or hide any unpermitted PED-like substances; as Conte says. Based on the contract that USADA designed it appears that Floyd has not done anything wrong (stay with me) due to the fact that; A) Not only did no-one appear to look deep enough into (the relevant clauses on) how the TUE mechanism would work after the fact, such as when/if an approved TUE application was forwarded and/or vetted (suspiciously or otherwise) by USADA. B) The USADA contract - as Hauser correctly states - cleverly shifts “control” to USADA in the event there is an “accidental” conflict between the contract’s contents and any other relevant regulations, rule, policy. On the above-mentioned points; “B”; this type of contractual mechanism is not new, and I am not sure how it passed without Arum at least noticing it. I am pretty sure I would. Same for “A”; personally, I'd like to think that I would have spotted that oversight and ensured that no TUE "approval" can be given (in retrospect) for any circumstances, particularly where therapuetical/other use of a banned/other substance has already taken place without prior agreement and/or USADA approval. That said, since the above-mentioned contractual matters are what they are, Floyd has not - as far as the USADA agreement is concerned - done anything gravely wrong; same (possibly) can’t be said about USADA though.
In fact, based on the contracts and relevant rules, I am not even sure that Floyd's team had to apply for the TUE - whether it be before or after the fact or not - meaning Floyd's (Hauser claimed late and inappropriate) application for the IV infusion was a courtesy measure; which negates any concern about (supposed) lateness. Unfortunately Hauser forgot to detail this, and I see (in other threads) the puppies are already wagging tails and humping legs. There are other oversights with Hauser's work, but let's leave it there for now. However, remaining on point with Floyd; the gun is certainly smoking I agree. Perhaps, not quite as heavily as having your trainers effectively admitting you're on PEDs - but nonetheless it's both smoking, and in need of a decent and plausible explanation from TMT. Don’t hold your breath as they’re as rare round these parts as Donkey truths, admissions, and clarifications. From what I can tell, a lot of the problems Hauser details seem to come from; A) USADA, how they operate and how they seem to constantly be favoured over VADA. I have written extensively about this and how wrong it is before - so no need to do it again. B) The fact that a fighter (Floyd in this case) can be both a promoter and competing boxer, and therefore both "call the shots" and also be "USADA's" client. For those who may not know - as surprising as it may seem - I have previously written about the likelihood that Floyd must have used PEDs before, however both; B1) the (factual - not emotional) evidence of such was not as strong as that related to Pac at that time. B2) at the same time, mass benefit of the doubt (and I mean massive) was being applied to Pacquiao and his (highly questionable) antics - to the extent that he was allotted a stunning degree of excuses and speculation; that - as we can see now - was almostly completely misaligned with what even his trainer and promoter have admitted. On point "B"; don't for a minute think Top Rank and Pacquaio (whilst not both a promoter and competing boxer) didn't previously - for many of Manny's big fights - have a similar or other arrangement that effectively yielded the same liberties, results, or lack of them. To do so would be extremely na?ve. Still, this does not mean that what Hauser reports of (with respect to Floyd) is incorrect. It must be said though, that Hauser has previously displayed a strong and extremely obvious penchant to be involved in Pacquaio's career trajectory, almost leaping at any opportunity to play the role of exclusive narrator - in equal, if not lesser, proportions to how much his nose was clearly put out of joint with PBC and TMT treatment of the media prior to and perhaps after MayPac. So, for those reasons I am cautious to quickly wade into the
Deepwater and accept all claims; not at least without thought and some pensive action. That said, at the same time I'm certainly not discounting the acceptability of some of the claims and arguments Hauser prosecutes either. As, some, I might add - as
Deep2water has stated in above posts - are not only hard to ignore - but also contructed exceptionally well and professionally. Hopefully - to belay some of my above-mentioned concerns about Hauser’s possible underlying motivation - Tom will apply his high powered perception toward Pacquaio also; so we can see just how rife the PED issue may be with both the leading welterweight fighters of this generation. As, there is an abundance of questions about Pacquaio that are as visibly circumvented and avoided - as his most scintillating performances have question marks over them; making for a treasure trove of insightful boxing article - if anyone dares that is. All up, though, (aside from any motivation Hauser may have due to vindictiveness) I'm glad there is a fighting/boxing journalist that has the balls to write in detail and with fighter's names about the PED issue; even if it is about Floyd. As, it's been a little lonely for poor old
StormCentre, putting all the detailed pieces of the PED scam together myself, and from within a forum where my poor little azz is often under fire from a ratio of shortsightedness and insight that can perhaps - if you let it - perform as an analogue of the below-mentioned backward testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios. Moving on . . . I laughed when Hauser quoted Conte about how PEDs may be used by Floyd, via the timing of opponent announcements and dictating when the testing occurs, . . . etc. Like . . ""Hello - you don't say"". ""Welcome to the party"". Works both ways; for the opponent too. The longer Floyd, Pacquaio, or any of the tens of other fighters that may use performance enhancing drugs leave it to announce their next fight/opponent; the longer then that the opponent gets to have the option of “cycling” and “using”. But nonetheless - as Hauser’s report states - this is exactly how to manage the "cycles" of polyPED use. Boxing - in many ways - actually lends itself to that type of approach almost better than any other sport. None of this will change the until courts force drug testing agencies to do their job properly (good luck with that). And, until promoters, fighters and sanctions all agree something along the (incomplete) lines as follows . . . 1) All top ten fighters (of all sanctions) must be subjected to random testing all year round - no exceptions. 2) All fighters that refuse, are out. 3) Start work on how to deal with infringements; 2 strikes and your out or something else? 4) Any fighter testing positive after a fight forfeits all (or some) of their purse (to fund the anti-PED measures defined herein) and title. 5) The title goes to the opponent provided he's PEDclean and compliant with other nonPED boxing rules/policies. 6) A law/policy needs to also exist whereby promoters are heavily fined if their fighters test use performance enhancing drugs and/or test positive; similarly to how publicans and licensed premises owners/operators are - in part - responsible for patrons conduct and inebriation. This would ensure that fighters - to ensure longevity of their career - feel a meaningful degree of pressure/heat to stay clean from promoters also. And, the aforementioned “heat” that they feel from promoters also would, hopefully - perhaps in the same way and proportions to that motivation they possibly currently feel to use performance enhancing drugs to ensure longevity of their career - ensure they ceased and/or never commenced performance enhancing drug use. 7) Next? There is so much money at the top level of this game, it's impossible to believe that these measures can't at least begin to be walked towards. Whilst all the sanctions are effectively companies that exist to generate a profit - before anything else - and reside in geographically separate locations; good luck implementing even just the above short list. I noticed also in Hauser's report that he called for retrospective testing of Floyd's samples. I agree, that should happen. Disappointing he didn't use the wide brush with that stroke too and include Pacquaio and others - how much support this suggestion receives from the true, as they have been loosely referred to by some, “peons” will indeed be telling, and not only in terms of how much hypocrisy exists on this matter in the forum. For all the above-mentioned reasons and more; this sport is rife with PED use that can possibly destroy a promotion, and that's really why USADA exists; if you know what I mean. Another thing; the effect on fighters energy and performance levels brought about not just by "cycling" in/out of various substances - but also by playing with their hormone/testostorone levels and/or testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios to deceive exogenous testosterone tests - is possibly another (un/obvious) reason why certain fighters seems to deliver flunky performances when otherwise deemed to be on fire. Especially leading up to and in their biggest fight; where the requirement and/or temptation to "play" with their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios may more than they can refuse. How often have we seen a fighter perform way, way below what their average usually is; even without stringent performance enhancing drugs testing? These fighters - after yielding the benefits from a decent polyPED/PED "cycle" leading into the fight and as they now (draw closer to the weigh in, and) begin to "play" with their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios in preparation for pre-fight testing - may just push their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios across to the other side; where their use of exogenous testosterone then pushes their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio down too far - negatively impacting any (illegitimate/legitimate) performance gains they may have otherwise accommodated within their pre-fight camp. Remember, also, it's not all physical either. Boxing and/or prizefighting has been said to be largely a psychological game. Imagine going from the powerful high and (illegitimate/legitimate) performance gains you have achieved all through camp - down to a real psychological low - just before the fight. I have no doubt this is exactly how Pacquaio felt just before MayPac. Low testosterone counts - high epitestosterone counts - goofy testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios - and a poorly mixed bag of hormone-lollies; will all do that for you. It’s not like the fighters can (yet) legally afford to have a Doctor on hand - like Lance Armstrong - to properly and safely administer all they may put in their bodies. In closing a few things; 1) I spotted a few more loopholes in the USADA contract than have been detailed; wonder if anyone else can see them too? 2) The timing of Hauser’s report - which I am sure is completely coincidental - doesn’t exactly fare well for Mayweather heading into his fight with Berto. 3) I am not going to be surprised to see Berto give Floyd some trouble and more of a fight than Pacquaio. 4) I am going to be surprised to see Hauser accurately investigate Pacquaio in the same manner as Floyd. 5) I am not going to be surprised to find out Floyd has been using performance enhancing drugs. 6) If Floyd has been using performance enhancing drugs, then - as per the relevant rules - then he should be stripped of his title; that is, provided he has not already relinquished it - note he made the announcement that this was going to happen pretty soon after winning. Coincidence? 7) If retrograde testing applies to Pacquaio and Floyd, and if both are discovered to be positive in title fights, then both guys should have their records suitable amended. OK boxing lovers that it for this
StormTrolling Peon for now. :) :)


-stormcentre :

Assuming that any of these principles are of interest and considered to be more worthwhile than thrashing and unchecked emotions, and in the name of transparency, fairness, and accuracy; here are some considerations/questions I would now focus on; -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Aside from that which Hauser states originated from TMT; what proof is there of the quantity of vitamin/saline that was infused? 2) What communication transpired between TMT and USADA in advance of the infusion (as per USADA's claims) and was it documented? 3) What is USADA’s stance on Floyd (effectively) administering the IV infusion himself, and does this stance rely in any way upon the fact that any conflict of policies/regulations effectively - as agreed/signed by Pacquaio and Mayweather - places control in USADA’s hands? 4) Was there any communication between the NSAC and USADA in relation and prior to USADA granting/acknowledging the TUE and/or IV infusion? In other words, given that Mayweather applied for and was granted a TUE by USADA (~20 days after the infusion); how did USADA receive news that the NSAC granted Floyd’s TUE – or was it that USADA assumed the actions TMT advised them of were compliant due to other means (such as them not conflicting with the NSAC regulations), including the clauses within their own contract that removes ambiguity in relation to whom is in control (when regulations seem ambiguous and/or in conflict) - which therefore may negate the need for USADA to receive the green light on TUE approvals from the NSAC before releasing it themselves? 5) How did USADA ensure that the practice that is not prohibited under NSAC rule (namely a saline and vitamin infusion of a particularly quantity) was actually the practice TMT engaged in; if the TUE was approved ~20 days after the fact and seemingly without the NSAC prior involvement (if that was the case)? 6) What is the USADA’s position on why/whether a fighter can have such substances administered in the manner TMT is said to have engaged in; in other words not in a clinical environment. 7) If USADA didn’t adhere to typical WADA protocol due to the clauses within its signed agreement with Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, then - aside from the contractual provision that circumvents it - why didn’t USADA adhere to typical WADA protocol, and what efforts were made to do so? 8) Why was this (point 7) and other “curious” terms, within the contract between USADA, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, found to be of no concern to all parties? 9) Despite the suspicious and/or trusted facts; A) That the weigh-in and IV administration is said to have occurred on May 1. B) The fight was on May 2. C) USADA seemingly chose not to notify the Nevada State Athletic Commission about the IV procedure until 20 days after the IV was administered. It appears that – due to the contract that was signed and in place – nothing is significantly out of order in that respect. Even though it is remarkable and possibly suspicious that such a large amount of time was allowed to lapse. 10) Was any analysis of the IV bags/equipment carried out to determine of the substance(s) that were infused were compliant with the contract (and regulations) that was in place at the time? 11) Why did the initial letter sent from USADA to the NSAC and/or Arum not detail the dates when TUE application and grant was made? Is it due to the fact that the above-mentioned agreement stipulates that only the athletes themselves will be provided with this information? 12) With respect to Hauser’s comments . . . 12a) “"In other words, 18 days after the fight, USADA gave Mayweather a retroactive therapeutic use exemption for a procedure that is on the WADA “Prohibited Substances and Methods List.” And because of a loophole in its drug-testing contract, USADA wasn’t obligated to notify the Nevada State Athletic Commission or Pacquiao camp regarding Mayweather’s IV until after the retroactive TUE was granted"”. As sad and disappointing as it is, this is unfortunately the case. 12b) A good question may be; why did Pacquaio and/or his team (according to Hauser) reject the retroactive exemption that could have been granted without notifying the Nevada State Athletic Commission or the opposing fighter’s camp – but then not see the neon lights blinkering over the above – vastly more obvious and concerning - contractual loophole; detailed in point 12b? Could it be because they thought it might work for them? 13) With respect to Hauser’s comments . . . 13a) “"Meanwhile, on May 2 (fight night), Pacquiao’s request to be injected with Toradol (a legal substance) to ease the pain caused by a torn rotator cuff was denied by the Nevada State Athletic Commission because the request was not made in a timely manner"”. 13b) I am not sure this is accurate on Hauser's part. Wasn’t one of the reasons Pacquaio’s request to be injected was denied by the NSAC due to the fact that Pacquaio fraudulently populated his request form and signed it? I am sure Hauser accidentally overlooked this consideration. 14) Team Mayweather should be asked and/or made to provide a sufficient explanation – in terms of weight and other related maters - in relation to why Floyd required the intravenous infusion, particularly in the clandestine (if we suspend USADA's claim they were priorly notified) like and other manners it was deemed to have been administered. 15) How does USADA justify and/or rationalize not using carbon isotope ratio testing given both the overhead it charges over other PED testing agencies that charge less, and also the up-front fee ($150K) it is said to have received for the MayPac fight. 16) Floyd should be asked whether he can add any light on why his testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios prior to the Ortiz and Guerrero fights seemed goofy? 17) Both fighters – Pacquaio and Mayweather – should be asked for permission as to whether or not they object to having retrograde carbon isotope ratio testing conducted on "all" their previous blood samples. I bet this idea receives no support from any PacFan; unlike the fact that I am both a Pac and Floyd fan, but still suggesting it; consistency. Nevertheless, if either Pacquaio or Floyd reject this idea a suitable/appropriate explanation should be provided as to why. 18) Hauser should be asked whether he can provide any light on Pacquaio’s testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios prior to several of Manny’s major fights? 19) With respect to Hauser’s comments . . . 19a) “"As reported by this writer on MaxBoxing in Dec. 2012, information filtered through the drug-testing community on May 20, 2012 to the effect that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug. More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive three times and, after each positive test, USADA had given Floyd an inadvertent use waiver. These waivers, if they were in fact given, would have negated the need to test Floyd’s “B” samples. And because the “B” samples were never tested, a loophole in Mayweather’s USADA contract would have allowed testing to continue without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission"”. 19b) Is there any documented evidence – such as that provided by Hauser in relation to Floyd’s pre-Ortiz/Guerrero fight testing – that shows Floyd’s positive tests? I don’t doubt or claim it exists – but I would love to see it. 20) Does the NSAC accept both, that USADA did not have to notify it in relation to Floyd’s IV infusion, and that the infusion itself was not prohibited by their rules; as per USADA's claims? If not why? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A more detailed list may be provided later. But - even just from the above shortlist - there is easily enough factual concerns in there to keep any Truth/FloydHater happy, without straying into hypocrisy, misinterpretation, and questionable claims; which almost always leads to embarrassment that provides insight as to why some don't look at Pacquaio in the same way - not even when he was privy to and signed many of the contractual terms that now are, and can be, used to reasonably question Floyd.
Storm :) :) :)


-Kid Blast :

Nice timing by the "esteemed" consultant for HBO


-Kid Blast :

IMO, Hauser is acting as HBO's hitman, trying to kneecap Floyd and Haymon. I wish Hauser would retire.


-Kid Blast :

How nice. You criticize the HBO Consultant and you are attacked on Tweeter by the author of this article. Unbelievable --and very troubling hero worship.


-Kid Blast :

Great stuff, Storm


-Kid Blast :

"In a world where you can’t believe anything you hear and only a quarter of what you see, it’s impossible to know when to be outraged and to whom that outrage should be directed. So people stop caring. And when they stop caring nothing but bad happens."


-amayseng :

says Hauser, "...the thoughts of Victor Conte are instructive." Really? A convicted felon. Hauser does not like Floyd. Floyd does not like Hauser. Hauser has attacked Floyd re spousal abuse. Floyd got even by keeping the HBO consultant out of the arena for the Pac fight based on a credentials issue. Now it's Hauser's turn. At the end of the day, anyone who can understand the poorly set forth gibberish in Hauser's latest article should receive an award. Me, I prefer Doctor Margerate Goodman who relies on her medical background rather than the garbage thrown out there by ex-cons and Hauser spies. For God's sakes, grow up. This is boxing. And you can't clean dirt"
Whether he likes Floyd or not it seems he has stated facts that have yet to be rebutted with substantiated evidence Seems Floyd broke the rules, a few times and in doing so with the intention to hide peds.


-Kid Blast :

No, he hasn't. He has thrown out there innuendos and Conte-back garbage. Some of it hits the mark, but why did he wait until now to do this? And a lot DOES has to do with his not liking Floyd. In fact, he is still smarting from not getting credentials for the Pac fight. Hauser has become predictable. Hauser, an attorney has always been accusatory--it's his style. And his sources have been terribly sketchy. Floyd doesn't like Hauser because of Hauser's criticism of Floyd's female abuse issues, but dammit, you do the crime, you do the time and Floyd has done the time. Where is Hauser on Super Pimp Adonis? Tyson? Bowe? This is my last post on the matter because the hate towards Mayweather has gone over the top. Me, I like the way he fights. And I'll just leave it at that.


-amayseng :

No, he hasn't. He has thrown out there innuendos and Conte-back garbage. Some of it hits the mark, but why did he wait until now to do this? And a lot DOES has to do with his not liking Floyd. In fact, he is still smarting from not getting credentials for the Pac fight. Hauser has become predictable. Hauser, an attorney has always been accusatory--it's his style. And his sources have been terribly sketchy. Floyd doesn't like Hauser because of Hauser's criticism of Floyd's female abuse issues, but dammit, you do the crime, you do the time and Floyd has done the time. Where is Hauser on Super Pimp Adonis? Tyson? Bowe? This is my last post on the matter because the hate towards Mayweather has gone over the top. Me, I like the way he fights. And I'll just leave it at that.
I like how he fought Cotto and Canelo, pac, the ghost and chino he was disturbingly boring and holding and stalling. Unlike Floyd fanatics I like to see the best out of him because it is more enjoyable to watch an exciting fight, the fanatics act like they get paid when he wins even in boring underwhelming fashion. The TIMING of this piece actually helps Floyd as he can go on with the Berto fight and retire. If this was released 3-4 weeks ago sanctions could have been imposed with floyd being suspended maybe up to One year and that does not help a man who will be 39 in feb


-Radam G :

Where is syet-talking Paulie now? He's always talking diz, dat and da third about cheats, but where is his arse now about Money Naynay -- I mean May? Paulie's bytch-arse heart is broken now. His idol Money May is now officially a REAL-TIME CHEAT. Now all of Paulie's bullsyet about Money May being a clean and honest pug, Paulie has to eat. Pucking idol worshipper of a ratchet ______ ______. And he can take that to the bank. Holla!


-Kid Blast :

".Mayweather had the IV procedure done BEFORE the fight, not long after the weigh-in the day before...but Hauser appears to have been "incorrect" about a key detail-- Apparently, it was Mayweather who summoned the USADA to his house to get clearance on the procedure...They didn't, as Hauser implied, "bust" him by accident as they came to random check him...That's key to the whole thing because if Mayweather was seeking to mask or dilute some banned substance for the post-fight blood test I doubt he'd call the testing agency over and tell them about it... "So, essentially, as this story starts to be broken down by saner adults without juvenile grudges, it becomes increasingly less of a story-- The IV procedure Mayweather used IS banned by WADA, but not by USADA under the terms of the testing for this fight and not by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, either...and the actual solutions used are also not banned substances... "The only point of real controversy is the fact that USADA green lit the procedure, but never issued the official therapeutic exemption on paper until 18 days after the fight and never told Team Pacquiao until 18 days after the fight, either...They also never informed the NSAC of what was going on...So, it gives the appearance of USADA favoring Mayweather... "But Mayweather seems clean when it comes to this particular "scandal", though...Think about it...If this was a big deal, wouldn't Arum and Team Pacquiao have pitched a fit when they were first informed of the IV? You know we would've had this story pushed up our asses if it showed any sort of "cheat"..."


-deepwater2 :

So Floyd called them and told them to come over to look at the IV marks on his arm? So does the USADA just follow Floyd's orders or do they randomly show up like they are supposed to? If Floyd had them on the phone ,why wouldn't the testing agency tell them about the restrictions on IV re-hydration, 50 ml for 6 hours. Not 750ml A broken rule is a broken rule.


-Radam G :

Money Naynay -- I mean May -- and USADA are straight busted. They said that they were using Olympic testing. So bet your arse that WADA is the chief of that. And its rules rule. Besides, NSAC approved USADA. NSAC head dude Bennett has clearly, strongly said that USADA just cannot do any darn thing that it wants to. And USADA was also working in accordance with the NSAC's approved rules. And everything had to come through the NSAC first and foremost. NSAC was the BIG BOSS in the MayPac Farce. And it has clearly said that USADA double fudged up. Holla!


-stormcentre :

So Floyd called them and told them to come over to look at the IV marks on his arm? So does the USADA just follow Floyd's orders or do they randomly show up like they are supposed to? If Floyd had them on the phone ,why wouldn't the testing agency tell them about the restrictions on IV re-hydration, 50 ml for 6 hours. Not 750ml A broken rule is a broken rule.
Yep a broken rule is a broken rule. Agreed. Just like if you drive at 160 Kilometres per hour on a designated highway in the Northern Territory of Australia, it's against the law in West Australia. That's the relevance of what Floyd did to the rules that matter; absolutely nothing. And, what's even more remarkable (not just in terms of what's ignored about Pac either, and what it means about him) is that the very same contract/rules are the ones that both Pacquaio and Floyd (whom both have legal teams) designed/signed. Unpopular considerations eh? They get in the way of a good old FloydBash session don't they? Here's an(other) interesting point. What's the chances that the way USADA were contractually engaged by PBC, Top Rank, and/or the Money Team - for the MayPac fight - had similarities to how (and why) Top Rank and Pacquaio engaged (and vehemently defended) USADA for and in many of Pac's preMayPac fights? No chance of that eh? :) But let's just pretend Pac is not squeaky clean for a second - as all PacLovers would have us believe; if there is no chance of that, then, why did Arum and Top Rank so vehemently defend their choice for USADA in many of Pac's preMayPac fights - for years and years? All donkey spirits that are representative of all ignored Floyd&PacQuestions better get ready for another spiritual squatter; as that question will be dropped like a hot potato won't it? Also question 12 here . . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22532-Hauser-Fires-At-USADA-and-Floyd-USADA-Responds&p=87564&viewfull=1#post87564 Seems awfully lonely. Do you want to lead by example and tackle it? At least give us your thoughts on that D2, so there is, at least, 5% on evenhandedness from you on these issues to balance? out the other 95% on Floyd; that - for the most part - seems to be without adequate scrutiny and/or explanation. Also, with respect to my comment . . . . ""We have a few forum members here that work in hospitals and the medical (or related) industries, perhaps they can advise as to why/when many hospitals prefer IV rehydration over other methods."" Found here;
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22532-Hauser-Fires-At-USADA-and-Floyd-USADA-Then-Floyd-Respond&p=87555&viewfull=1#post87555 I would love to have a response to it from someone like yourself. Even possibly an insight as to why IV fusions were OK (by Pac) when Pac fought Oscar, and Oscar had one. Once again; I agree the IV fusion and the way it was handled was suspicious and that both guys should be retrospectively CIR/other tested. What about you? Where do you stand on that? Should both guys be retrospectively CIR/other tested? Or just the one whose trainer/promoter (pick "A" or "B"); A) Effectively admits they have achieved success and titles. B) Has never admitted they have achieved success and titles. With the assistance of PEDs. An unanswered but good question is an unanswered but good question; for a reason. Cheers. :)


-brownsugar :

Test


-brownsugar :

Hauser has been chasing this ambulance for 6 years and the story has already been forgotten, I mean a pound and a half vitamin water isnt much of smoking gun when its already been reported and retro approved by USADA. The 16 unnecessary pages of various steriod users throught history make a poor reference for a case that's totally unrelated and is involving a unique set of circumstances. I drove home from Cali in 79, and ended up passing through Las Vegas after I made a wrong turn through a southerly route instead of driving through the center of the of the United States on my way back to Ohio. I passed through Nevada, Death Valley, N Mexico and Texas before i got back on track. Going through the state of Nevada alone my car, ( a cherry 65 gto) that had planned to rehab .... my car used up 6 quarts of oil alone..... That's unheard of.... Unless you live there ( and turn up the heat to the gym to over 102 dedrees. I'm not at all surprised that a prolific athlete and over dedicated worker like Floyd would need to rehydrate with aprox a pound and a half of vitamin water after training. Most guys put anywhere from 15 to 25 lbs of water weight before a fight. Forgive me for not getting alarmed, but when it comes to Hauser and Mayweather I just dont get that interested any more.


-Radam G :

Hauser has been chasing this ambulance for 6 years and the story has already been forgotten, I mean a pound and a half vitamin water isnt much of smoking gun when its already been reported and retro approved by USADA. The 16 unnecessary pages of various steriod users throught history make a poor reference for a case that's totally unrelated and is involving a unique set of circumstances. I drove home from Cali in 79, and ended up passing through Las Vegas after I made a wrong turn through a southerly route instead of driving through the center of the of the United States on my way back to Ohio. I passed through Nevada, Death Valley, N Mexico and Texas before i got back on track. Going through the state of Nevada alone my car, ( a cherry 65 gto) that had planned to rehab .... my car used up 6 quarts of oil alone..... That's unheard of.... Unless you live there ( and turn up the heat to the gym to over 102 dedrees. I'm not at all surprised that a prolific athlete and over dedicated worker like Floyd would need to rehydrate with aprox a pound and a half of vitamin water after training. Most guys put anywhere from 15 to 25 lbs of water weight before a fight. Forgive me for not getting alarmed, but when it comes to Hauser and Mayweather I just dont get that interested any more.
Money May's _____ bytch @$$ and USADA are straight busted. Reminisce all you like about yesteryears. Money May is going to one day be full of tears. His lies and alibis are fading to dark. On his own arse, he will eventually bark. The truth is going to come out critters in a park. And there will be a snitch singing like a lark. Holla!


-Absy71 :

Money May's _____ bytch @$$ and USADA are straight busted. Reminisce all you like about yesteryears. Money May is going to one day be full of tears. His lies and alibis are fading to dark. On his own arse, he will eventually bark. The truth is going to come out critters in a park. And there will be a snitch singing like a lark. Holla!
It's a red light district sport, lol, hey isn't any sport u can place a bet?, we r all sheep rolmfao, luv ya guts Cheers Absy


-Absy71 :

Anyway going by the thread, it seems like MONEY MAY JR, has F,,k up, just like his counter part, games begin, lol, why are we as humans so obsessed with honesty, when we rant honest with our selfs , f it have fun n f--k every thing around , n I have 3 daughters, wtf, I have 1 boy n he will be treated like a man!, STORM, I would like to come down n train with u n the Lab boy from the gc , with my little man on tow, lol, yep smak me the f around , I need it, I have a delimma, am I biting off too much, Cheers Absy Can't be, no such thing


-Radam G :

It's a red light district sport, lol, hey isn't any sport u can place a bet?, we r all sheep rolmfao, luv ya guts Cheers Absy
True da! TRUE DA! A hardcore, nasty, filthy red-light district sport that many are immuned to now and are in self denial of that one of their icons maybe be a serial sociopath doing every wrong that drug head wrong that exist. WTF! How can someone believe that it was an innocent reason that Money May was shooting vitamins and salt and syet with an IV through his veins like a common druggie shooting dat syet. Athletes just routinely do that. And they routinely ride unicorns on clouds too. GTFOH lil Floyd'$ _____ _____ nut riders.Holla!


-stormcentre :

Anyway going by the thread, it seems like MONEY MAY JR, has F,,k up, just like his counter part, games begin, lol, why are we as humans so obsessed with honesty, when we rant honest with our selfs , f it have fun n f--k every thing around , n I have 3 daughters, wtf, I have 1 boy n he will be treated like a man!, STORM, I would like to come down n train with u n the Lab boy from the gc , with my little man on tow, lol, yep smak me the f around , I need it, I have a delimma, am I biting off too much, Cheers Absy Can't be, no such thing

A brief history of TSS's forum's "uncontrolled PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its special breed of "neo-NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism". Man . . . that is an awesome post. "Yep smak me the f around". Love it!!! Haven't laughed so much since the pre-MayPac days when NostRADAMazz serially released his tribal nonsense posts selling all manner of magic tricks and potions as if it were the snake oil cure for cancer. These serially released NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense posts seemed to be published on the back of what was probably a NostRADAMazzPacErection that was probably caused by an overdose of Viagra. Nevertheless, one after the other, sensational claims that were as empty as they were fantastic - about magic potions, how Pac performs, how Floyd will get KO'd, and many other Amazing claims, with each one being successively more hysterical, hypocritical, non-sensical, inaccurate, fantastic, and of course completely un-defendable than the previous - were released, and then galloped away, from. This is where the term "Donkey Magic" came from. As each PacQueen and/or "magical" claim hit the forums there was usually 3 or 7 tribal voodoo dancers or political forum head-kickers - that had previously enjoyed the freedom and strength that tribal warfare and their special brand of bullying afforded them to not only cover off on how they themselves consistently failed to check, scrutinize and substantiate, but to also misdirect and attack whenever someone questioned how such purposes were used to ridicule and insult - that would always, without fail, jump in head first; thinking (and making excuses) later.
StormCentre changed all that because he's not afraid of gangs, bullies, the truth, and/or lies, and he fought for freedom of speech and equal rights for the truth. One of
StormCentre'smottos, at that time and still today, was that (even though the lies are funny) the truth should - in the very least - enjoy the same freedom and quantity as (all) the lies that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and of course NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense posts have all enjoyed. Additionally, because the
StormCentre is a fair
StormCentre he also openly stated that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and of course the NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense should be given a fair (un-bullying like) chance to explain themselves before their claims/actions should be treated/deemed as rubbish. This explains both; A) Why questions are sometimes released about seemingly fantastic claims authored by the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal voicebox. B) The entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal voicebox have - to date - probably explained - at best - 5% of their claims; or put another way galloped from - at least - 95% of them. So, . . . aside from the mounting pile of raw claims that were galloped away from (more on that later) this left us with so much humor and secondary - but equally fantastic - claims . . . or better put excuses. But now - due to the above-mentioned history of the matter - it was clear what was probably fact and fiction. Or put another way we had effectively sorted the sh.it (claims) from the clay; so the truth could be seen for all whom appreciate it in equal quantities to its antithesis and popular counterpart. A similar thing happens in boxing/gyms. People "talk" all the time. Then they glove up and we see the truth. Boxing worships the truth, even though it is full of the opposite in some areas. So, with that all said . . . . fast forward to today. What the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal non-sense have really left us with (see below links if you're still not convinced) is about 70 - 100 or so Amasengly incredible (and I mean incredible; like circulation that goes 20,000 times a second around your body possibly assisted with cherry juice and cinnamon dust) claims. Now this is all fine . . because as you say it's only having fun. But, and this is the point, since the
StormCentre - whom was previously (pre-MayPac) much quieter and sat back as he watched the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act gather momentum and become bullies - has fought for freedom of speech both parties can now have fun with the lies, and (the rejection/absence of) the truth. You see previously only that party (the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act) that rejected truth, attacked those whom asked questions, and released lies, were having fun. Now, the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act still get to release, cheer for, and subscribe to what makes them giddy (claims they can't explain) - but at the same time everyone gets to see precisely how reliable those claims are due to the above-mentioned fair actions of
StormCentre. Actions that do nothing other than (singularly take the heat of what the truth/questions and freedom of speech really means, and) ask the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act to explain what they're cheering, complaining, and claiming about. This provides for both the truth and its diagonally opposed counterpart - that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act often support - to coexist; freedom of speech. It also allows seasoned and new forum posters to easily recognize and make a call for themselves about what precisely is the truth and its diagonally opposed counterpart; due to the fact that most truths are easily substantiated and explained, and - of course - the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act often are unable to do this. So, naturally, then both seasoned and new forum posters, can then easily see, not be misled, and feel free to express themselves as they wish; freedom of speech. (Most) people are not (trying to be) stupid, and they will quickly see that there is a reason that truth, questions, and answers does not seem to co/exist anywhere other than outside the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act. As the McDonalds burger chain CEO once said; it's all about choices.
StormCentre today provides for the lies and also the truth. He loves them both, even though he uses others lies for humor and also knows the truth is the easiest to remember and best philosophy. OK . . . so back in the pre-MayPac days when the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act were releasing all the above-mentioned excuses and unsubstantiated claims . . . . that was really good fun. We had quite literally never seen such a good example of successively; not learning from mistakes - resorting to more extreme claims that can't be proven to cover off on previous ones that smelt just as bad, and history doomed to repeat itself due to not learning from mistakes. It was so funny. You had PacQueens telling "evereebody an dey mamma" in loud cheerful voices (that also attacked anyone not in agreement) what Pac had done and that Pac was going to do this and that (all fantastic claims). And, these same people right at that time and even know simply didn't even (bother to fact-check) know if Pac was going forward, backward, juicing with PEDs, lying, and/or incubating shoulder injuries. Not even when Pac's trainer and promoter came out and effectively said Pac was on the PEDs when he achieved his catch-weight successes did any of these cats stop, think, and change tact. Instead, it was "ready", "fire", "aim" . . . and, full steam ahead in wild claim, attack, and "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act, mode. Far out man. . . back then - and even know with all the pretending, fantasy, and rampant ease that most negative Floyd claims are sexually PacQueen swallowed/consumed without even the slightest scrutiny, leaving a mountain of unanswered and hilarious questions trailing in their wake - we laughed so hard that my email inbox actually crashed my phone's OS due to all the messages I was getting about both; how the freedom of speech fight was worthwhile, and how it seemed that no amount of exposure, fact, suspicion, and running could make the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act . . . stop, think, listen, and realize that there was a reason they can't, explain themselves and/or their wild and/or incredible claims, and simply stop. At one stage I had more than 350 emails - just on my phone - almost all of them both, offering support for exposing (their terms) idiotic stupidity and lies, and thanking me for the laughs. So, as you see - I agree with you - there is fun in the truth and lies, and many visitors to this site (an my inbox) agree too, and also appreciate the chance to clearly make a decision on what claims are made; without feeling peer group pressure to prematurely subscribe to fiction or fact - just to fit in. Its all about choices. Yep, back then - particularly with the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its main and most non-sensical cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribal act" it was like a totally stupified Benny Hill took 5 high powered Canadian processed ecstasy pills, then did a line of cocaine, and then had a love child with a KarashianClown on the surgery table of a veterinary birthing clinic for donkeys that hadn't been properly cleaned down since last use; then out came the biggest PacQueenDonkey of them all. Someone that not only never thought before making even the most wild/extreme "cinnamon powered fast handed 122 clinch puncher" claims, only to then find himself scared and galloping away from them as soon as they even smelt like they may attract a question - but also someone that behaved like a cross between a donkey, witchdoctor, and someone that thought he was a NostRADAMazz of the ages. This is where the term "NostRADAMazz", and variants on the "PacQueenDonkey" theme originated from. So, Absy, as you can see there are many simplified forms, names, and terms that can humorously apply to the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement", its main cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribalism act", and its faithful followers that have subscribed to "fiction worshipping", "myth", "magic", "voodoo", "hypocrisy" and, "running" for far too long to stop now. And, just a small amount of proof of this can easily be seen in (if not in the below-linked {point "B"} Evasion & Hypocritical Hall of Fame) how no-one can meaningfully take the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions about their posts, claims and beliefs associated with; Floyd, Pacquaio, PacQueens, and MayPac. And - for the record - the
Storm is not upset that they can't take the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions, either. As freedom of speech applies to those whom pretend, have different views, misplace their faith, dream, and can't explain too, you know. Actually, truth be told, the
Storm probably prefers it this way. It is perhaps a crazy irony that (in some ways)
Storm values the truth - but at the same time prefers that the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement", its main cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribalism act", and its faithful followers that have subscribed to "fiction worshipping", "myth", "magic", "voodoo", "hypocrisy" and, "running" for so long - can not accept the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions. As without this perpetual fantasy and it's enigmatic and humorous dichotomy there would probably be nothing to laugh at. For instance . . . . Sometimes, when I go to some of these boxing gyms - or when other cats attend mine and/or where I am - due to how funny and unforgotten all discussed above really is/was - it takes only minutes (sometimes I am not even in the gym) before we all start laughing at "fantasy" claims like; ""Da Manny backing up is what got Ricky Hatton KTFO when Big Floyd was Hatton's trainer"", and how they were ran from and dealt with .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20143-So-Floyd-Has-Been-Hurting-Sparring-Partners&p=77625&viewfull=1#post77625 So aside from the fact that all this substantiates that both (a)
StormCentredoes (a) have fun with the truth and lies, and (b) the truth is the easiest to remember; that particular NostRADAMazz fantasy claim was not only so abjectly wrong and hilarious - but it also clearly showed that even PacQueen's with the most easy virtue about their womanhood, themselves and also Pacquaio - as they carped/cried aloud about what they believe in with the most decibels and vehemency, and as they claimed they're in Pac's entourage (to make us think they know) - were, basically, (at least with respect to the ""Da Manny backing up . . . . "" claim anyway) totally clueless as to what fact really is and/or whether what they say (or Pac himself) is going backwards or forwards. Telling it was that the "PacQueen" that released that claim was also claiming to be in Pac's entourage. This is where the term "PacEntourage", or "PacQueenEntourage" came from. Absy, the above link and its NostRADAMazz fantasy claim is but one of literally tens and/or hundreds of gaseous, completely undefended, incredible, and utterly hilarious claims that were all laid down pre-MayPac. These fantasy claims were pooped out of the donkey's behind on a foundation of what can only be described as a form of "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz-PacQueen like Nazi tribalism" - that was itself reliant upon sterile and immature philosophies of both bullying and placing faith in mythical concepts and claims (that can never be proven, and therefore questioned) that, at times, sought to divide the community; between those whom believed and those whom dared to ask questions. even if you threw a mix of philosophy together that was reminiscent of a blend between - Louis CK's best humor, president's Bush's best goofs, and the most extreme elements of Nationalsozialismus - instilled it into the heads of a barrel of drunken monkeys that were possessed by Linda Blair and the Devil; the result would still not be as wild, chaotic, inconsistent, and as unproven as that which we have from the above-mentioned "PacLossExcuseMovement" and the "NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism's future forecasting. That said, I know which one is funnier. Perhaps, even more funny and incredible than all that was how - that is before
StormCentre commenced fighting for "freedom of speech" rights for those whom appreciate the truth too, and dealing with the matter head on, sometimes even when it was 10 or 15 "PacQueenBullies" to one poor old
StormCentre - popular such a movement was. Hence both; A) The shortened term/labeling; "PacQueenBullies", and of course the already mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement". B) And also this;
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 You will probably have a laugh at that post, and in fact the entire thread will provide you with good insight into how much I (already) agree with some of your written sentiments. Anyway, the writing is on the wall now though for the "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz-PacQueen like Nazi tribalism", and for the most part - particularly if judged in terms of its accountability, accuracy, substance, truth-rejection quantities, and hypocrisy - the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" like tribalism has gone down very poorly. Especially now that it is clear both, what "PacQueen" claims can not be anywhere near even remotely clarified, and also just how easily those same "simple" claims brought joy to the "PacQueen" movement - joy that at times even motivated them into a tribal attack; regardless of whether or not questions where asked about such claims. On a percentage basis (and this is important as one leading NostRADAMazz "PacQueen" - without proof of course - recently galloped from the claim that a "scientific" survey resulted in a large percentage/amount of people that supposedly wanted a MayPac2 fight) this is evidenced by how frequently the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its special brand of "act now-excuse later" tribalism; 1) Can not defend itself in simple and understandable terms. 2) Runs from questions. 3) Fails almost always 100% of the time to explain even those matters it feels/advertises most strongly about. 4) Resorts to baseless claims/hate. 5) Outright refuses to look at all the issues (even) it raises. 6) Is afraid to look properly at Pacquaio, and all related issues. 7) Can’t be paid to even consider the truth on many issues - some that it has used itself to unreasonably kick people whom are down and genuinely unwell, and/or great - that it brings into existence and prematurely celebrates. I hope you appreciate this brief insight that
StormCentre has put together for you into the history of TSS's forum's "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism", and its special breed of "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" that seems forever addicted to non-accountability, inaccuracy, substancelessness, truth-rejection, and hypocrisy. OK, that’s enough truth, fact, and humor. Back to your brilliant offer to attend a gym; "Yep smak me the f around". One thing to remember . . . well three. 1) There is a serious pecking order in our gym and, if I am not there, I will not always be able to regulate. For instance I remember when Echols came over and thought he would be the top dog cause it was just "sleepy little Australia". That dude went into his fight with Mundine with cracked ribs and very sore chops. So . . . . 2) Sometimes, it pays to be careful what you ask for. That said, I do really love your ""Yep smak me the f around"" line, and . . . . I couldn’t care, type of style. 3) as you rightly suggest; there is *fun, value, and humor in both lies, and the truth. The latter particularly when making big claims and/or ridiculing others. As then you should have to back it up. Also, do you think I'm not having fun with all the *lies and obvious running from them, that's going on here? :) I have constant support emails from people at gyms on the East coast here, and also many from the USA, about how much the truth hurts and is rejected here - it's a scream. F.uck I love that line . . . ."Yep smak me the f around". Anyway, great post. I like it when people take a shot at me (humorous, playfully or otherwise), stand up for what they believe in, and are not afraid to explain themselves. So, in response . . . here, have a listen to this . . . .

Storm. :) :)


-Radam G :

Lil Floyd's bytch @$$ is being blasted. It is just a matter of time before he is squashed like jelly bean for pretending to be clean. Dude is in a terrible league of conning clowns who thought that they had cover forever. Bytches were not so clever. And their nut riders believed them to be on a different level. Holla at this dude, who has been exposing Money May's builjive for years:
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2T9xYVv0g. Holla!


-stormcentre :

Anyway going by the thread, it seems like MONEY MAY JR, has F,,k up, just like his counter part, games begin, lol, why are we as humans so obsessed with honesty, when we rant honest with our selfs , f it have fun n f--k every thing around , n I have 3 daughters, wtf, I have 1 boy n he will be treated like a man!, STORM, I would like to come down n train with u n the Lab boy from the gc , with my little man on tow, lol, yep smak me the f around , I need it, I have a delimma, am I biting off too much, Cheers Absy Can't be, no such thing

A brief history of TSS's forum's "uncontrolled PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its special breed of "neo-NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism". Man . . . that is an awesome post. "Yep smak me the f around". Love it!!! Haven't laughed so much since the pre-MayPac days when NostRADAMazz serially released his tribal nonsense posts selling all manner of magic tricks and potions as if it were the snake oil cure for cancer. These serially released NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense posts seemed to be published on the back of what was probably a NostRADAMazzPacErection that was probably caused by an overdose of Viagra. Nevertheless, one after the other, sensational claims that were as empty as they were fantastic - about magic potions, how Pac performs, how Floyd will get KO'd, and many other Amazing claims, with each one being successively more hysterical, hypocritical, non-sensical, inaccurate, fantastic, and of course completely un-defendable than the previous - were released, and then galloped away, from. This is where the term "Donkey Magic" came from. As each PacQueen and/or "magical" claim hit the forums there was usually 3 or 7 tribal voodoo dancers or political forum head-kickers - that had previously enjoyed the freedom and strength that tribal warfare and their special brand of bullying afforded them to not only cover off on how they themselves consistently failed to check, scrutinize and substantiate, but to also misdirect and attack whenever someone questioned how such purposes were used to ridicule and insult - that would always, without fail, jump in head first; thinking (and making excuses) later.
StormCentre changed all that because he's not afraid of gangs, bullies, the truth, and/or lies, and he fought for freedom of speech and equal rights for the truth. One of
StormCentre'smottos, at that time and still today, was that (even though the lies are funny) the truth should - in the very least - enjoy the same freedom and quantity as (all) the lies that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and of course NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense posts have all enjoyed. Additionally, because the
StormCentre is a fair
StormCentre he also openly stated that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and of course the NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense should be given a fair (un-bullying like) chance to explain themselves before their claims/actions should be treated/deemed as rubbish. This explains both; A) Why questions are sometimes released about seemingly fantastic claims authored by the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal voicebox. B) The entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal voicebox have - to date - probably explained - at best - 5% of their claims; or put another way galloped from - at least - 95% of them. So, . . . aside from the mounting pile of raw claims that were galloped away from (more on that later) this left us with so much humor and secondary - but equally fantastic - claims . . . or better put excuses. But now - due to the above-mentioned history of the matter - it was clear what was probably fact and fiction. Or put another way we had effectively sorted the sh.it (claims) from the clay; so the truth could be seen for all whom appreciate it in equal quantities to its antithesis and popular counterpart. A similar thing happens in boxing/gyms. People "talk" all the time. Then they glove up and we see the truth. Boxing worships the truth, even though it is full of the opposite in some areas. So, with that all said . . . . fast forward to today. What the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal non-sense have really left us with (see below links if you're still not convinced) is about 70 - 100 or so Amasengly incredible (and I mean incredible; like circulation that goes 20,000 times a second around your body possibly assisted with cherry juice and cinnamon dust) claims. Now this is all fine . . because as you say it's only having fun. But, and this is the point, since the
StormCentre - whom was previously (pre-MayPac) much quieter and sat back as he watched the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act gather momentum and become bullies - has fought for freedom of speech both parties can now have fun with the lies, and (the rejection/absence of) the truth. You see previously only that party (the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act) that rejected truth, attacked those whom asked questions, and released lies, were having fun. Now, the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act still get to release, cheer for, and subscribe to what makes them giddy (claims they can't explain) - but at the same time everyone gets to see precisely how reliable those claims are due to the above-mentioned fair actions of
StormCentre. Actions that do nothing other than (singularly take the heat of what the truth/questions and freedom of speech really means, and) ask the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act to explain what they're cheering, complaining, and claiming about. This provides for both the truth and its diagonally opposed counterpart - that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act often support - to coexist; freedom of speech. It also allows seasoned and new forum posters to easily recognize and make a call for themselves about what precisely is the truth and its diagonally opposed counterpart; due to the fact that most truths are easily substantiated and explained, and - of course - the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act often are unable to do this. So, naturally, then both seasoned and new forum posters, can then easily see, not be misled, and feel free to express themselves as they wish; freedom of speech. (Most) people are not (trying to be) stupid, and they will quickly see that there is a reason that truth, questions, and answers does not seem to co/exist anywhere other than outside the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act. As the McDonalds burger chain CEO once said; it's all about choices.
StormCentre today provides for the lies and also the truth. He loves them both, even though he uses others lies for humor and also knows the truth is the easiest to remember and best philosophy. OK . . . so back in the pre-MayPac days when the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act were releasing all the above-mentioned excuses and unsubstantiated claims . . . . that was really good fun. We had quite literally never seen such a good example of successively; not learning from mistakes - resorting to more extreme claims that can't be proven to cover off on previous ones that smelt just as bad, and history doomed to repeat itself due to not learning from mistakes. It was so funny. You had PacQueens telling "evereebody an dey mamma" in loud cheerful voices (that also attacked anyone not in agreement) what Pac had done and that Pac was going to do this and that (all fantastic claims). And, these same people right at that time and even know simply didn't even (bother to fact-check) know if Pac was going forward, backward, juicing with PEDs, lying, and/or incubating shoulder injuries. Not even when Pac's trainer and promoter came out and effectively said Pac was on the PEDs when he achieved his catch-weight successes did any of these cats stop, think, and change tact. Instead, it was "ready", "fire", "aim" . . . and, full steam ahead in wild claim, attack, and "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act, mode. Far out man. . . back then - and even know with all the pretending, fantasy, and rampant ease that most negative Floyd claims are sexually PacQueen swallowed/consumed without even the slightest scrutiny, leaving a mountain of unanswered and hilarious questions trailing in their wake - we laughed so hard that my email inbox actually crashed my phone's OS due to all the messages I was getting about both; how the freedom of speech fight was worthwhile, and how it seemed that no amount of exposure, fact, suspicion, and running could make the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act . . . stop, think, listen, and realize that there was a reason they can't, explain themselves and/or their wild and/or incredible claims, and simply stop. At one stage I had more than 350 emails - just on my phone - almost all of them both, offering support for exposing (their terms) idiotic stupidity and lies, and thanking me for the laughs. So, as you see - I agree with you - there is fun in the truth and lies, and many visitors to this site (an my inbox) agree too, and also appreciate the chance to clearly make a decision on what claims are made; without feeling peer group pressure to prematurely subscribe to fiction or fact - just to fit in. Its all about choices. Yep, back then - particularly with the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its main and most non-sensical cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribal act" it was like a totally stupified Benny Hill took 5 high powered Canadian processed ecstasy pills, then did a line of cocaine, and then had a love child with a KarashianClown on the surgery table of a veterinary birthing clinic for donkeys that hadn't been properly cleaned down since last use; then out came the biggest PacQueenDonkey of them all. Someone that not only never thought before making even the most wild/extreme "cinnamon powered fast handed 122 clinch puncher" claims, only to then find himself scared and galloping away from them as soon as they even smelt like they may attract a question - but also someone that behaved like a cross between a donkey, witchdoctor, and someone that thought he was a NostRADAMazz of the ages. This is where the term "NostRADAMazz", and variants on the "PacQueenDonkey" theme originated from. So, Absy, as you can see there are many simplified forms, names, and terms that can humorously apply to the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement", its main cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribalism act", and its faithful followers that have subscribed to "fiction worshipping", "myth", "magic", "voodoo", "hypocrisy" and, "running" for far too long to stop now. And, just a small amount of proof of this can easily be seen in (if not in the below-linked {point "B"} Evasion & Hypocritical Hall of Fame) how no-one can meaningfully take the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions about their posts, claims and beliefs associated with; Floyd, Pacquaio, PacQueens, and MayPac. And - for the record - the
Storm is not upset that they can't take the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions, either. As freedom of speech applies to those whom pretend, have different views, misplace their faith, dream, and can't explain too, you know. Actually, truth be told, the
Storm probably prefers it this way. It is perhaps a crazy irony that (in some ways)
Storm values the truth - but at the same time prefers that the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement", its main cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribalism act", and its faithful followers that have subscribed to "fiction worshipping", "myth", "magic", "voodoo", "hypocrisy" and, "running" for so long - can not accept the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions. As without this perpetual fantasy and it's enigmatic and humorous dichotomy there would probably be nothing to laugh at. For instance . . . . Sometimes, when I go to some of these boxing gyms - or when other cats attend mine and/or where I am - due to how funny and unforgotten all discussed above really is/was - it takes only minutes (sometimes I am not even in the gym) before we all start laughing at "fantasy" claims like; ""Da Manny backing up is what got Ricky Hatton KTFO when Big Floyd was Hatton's trainer"", and how they were ran from and dealt with .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20143-So-Floyd-Has-Been-Hurting-Sparring-Partners&p=77625&viewfull=1#post77625 So aside from the fact that all this substantiates that both (a)
StormCentredoes (a) have fun with the truth and lies, and (b) the truth is the easiest to remember; that particular NostRADAMazz fantasy claim was not only so abjectly wrong and hilarious - but it also clearly showed that even PacQueen's with the most easy virtue about their womanhood, themselves and also Pacquaio - as they carped/cried aloud about what they believe in with the most decibels and vehemency, and as they claimed they're in Pac's entourage (to make us think they know) - were, basically, (at least with respect to the ""Da Manny backing up . . . . "" claim anyway) totally clueless as to what fact really is and/or whether what they say (or Pac himself) is going backwards or forwards. Telling it was that the "PacQueen" that released that claim was also claiming to be in Pac's entourage. This is where the term "PacEntourage", or "PacQueenEntourage" came from. Absy, the above link and its NostRADAMazz fantasy claim is but one of literally tens and/or hundreds of gaseous, completely undefended, incredible, and utterly hilarious claims that were all laid down pre-MayPac. These fantasy claims were pooped out of the donkey's behind on a foundation of what can only be described as a form of "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz-PacQueen like Nazi tribalism" - that was itself reliant upon sterile and immature philosophies of both bullying and placing faith in mythical concepts and claims (that can never be proven, and therefore questioned) that, at times, sought to divide the community; between those whom believed and those whom dared to ask questions. even if you threw a mix of philosophy together that was reminiscent of a blend between - Louis CK's best humor, president's Bush's best goofs, and the most extreme elements of Nationalsozialismus - instilled it into the heads of a barrel of drunken monkeys that were possessed by Linda Blair and the Devil; the result would still not be as wild, chaotic, inconsistent, and as unproven as that which we have from the above-mentioned "PacLossExcuseMovement" and the "NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism's future forecasting. That said, I know which one is funnier. Perhaps, even more funny and incredible than all that was how - that is before
StormCentre commenced fighting for "freedom of speech" rights for those whom appreciate the truth too, and dealing with the matter head on, sometimes even when it was 10 or 15 "PacQueenBullies" to one poor old
StormCentre - popular such a movement was. Hence both; A) The shortened term/labeling; "PacQueenBullies", and of course the already mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement". B) And also this;
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 You will probably have a laugh at that post, and in fact the entire thread will provide you with good insight into how much I (already) agree with some of your written sentiments. Anyway, the writing is on the wall now though for the "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz-PacQueen like Nazi tribalism", and for the most part - particularly if judged in terms of its accountability, accuracy, substance, truth-rejection quantities, and hypocrisy - the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" like tribalism has gone down very poorly. Especially now that it is clear both, what "PacQueen" claims can not be anywhere near even remotely clarified, and also just how easily those same "simple" claims brought joy to the "PacQueen" movement - joy that at times even motivated them into a tribal attack; regardless of whether or not questions where asked about such claims. On a percentage basis (and this is important as one leading NostRADAMazz "PacQueen" - without proof of course - recently galloped from the claim that a "scientific" survey resulted in a large percentage/amount of people that supposedly wanted a MayPac2 fight) this is evidenced by how frequently the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its special brand of "act now-excuse later" tribalism; 1) Can not defend itself in simple and understandable terms. 2) Runs from questions. 3) Fails almost always 100% of the time to explain even those matters it feels/advertises most strongly about. 4) Resorts to baseless claims/hate. 5) Outright refuses to look at all the issues (even) it raises. 6) Is afraid to look properly at Pacquaio, and all related issues. 7) Can’t be paid to even consider the truth on many issues - some that it has used itself to unreasonably kick people whom are down and genuinely unwell, and/or great - that it brings into existence and prematurely celebrates. I hope you appreciate this brief insight that
StormCentre has put together for you into the history of TSS's forum's "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism", and its special breed of "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" that seems forever addicted to non-accountability, inaccuracy, substancelessness, truth-rejection, and hypocrisy. OK, that’s enough truth, fact, and humor. Back to your brilliant offer to attend a gym; "Yep smak me the f around". One thing to remember . . . well three. 1) There is a serious pecking order in our gym and, if I am not there, I will not always be able to regulate. For instance I remember when Echols came over and thought he would be the top dog cause it was just "sleepy little Australia". That dude went into his fight with Mundine with cracked ribs and very sore chops. So . . . . 2) Sometimes, it pays to be careful what you ask for. That said, I do really love your ""Yep smak me the f around"" line, and . . . . I couldn’t care, type of style. 3) as you rightly suggest; there is *fun, value, and humor in both lies, and the truth. The latter particularly when making big claims and/or ridiculing others. As then you should have to back it up. Also, do you think I'm not having fun with all the *lies and obvious running from them, that's going on here? :) I have constant support emails from people at gyms on the East coast here, and also many from the USA, about how much the truth hurts and is rejected here - it's a scream. F.uck I love that line . . . ."Yep smak me the f around". Anyway, great post. I like it when people take a shot at me (humorous, playfully or otherwise), stand up for what they believe in, and are not afraid to explain themselves. So, in response . . . here, have a listen to this . . . .

Storm. :) :)


-Radam G :

Holla at another guy who has been exposing Money May and da syet Money May has been getting away with for years:
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yRmyO0vV6Ds. Holla!


-Radam G :

Don't forget my boy Max. You know that he is going to call a spade a spade. Never mind with corruption, Money May has it made. With da actuality of da reality of da real real da bytch-arse pug ain't da real deal. He is full of dat syet and IVs in place of a real meal. GTFOH, Cheater!
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9eEnwlLC4_w. Holla!


-stormcentre :

Anyway going by the thread, it seems like MONEY MAY JR, has F,,k up, just like his counter part, games begin, lol, why are we as humans so obsessed with honesty, when we rant honest with our selfs , f it have fun n f--k every thing around , n I have 3 daughters, wtf, I have 1 boy n he will be treated like a man!, STORM, I would like to come down n train with u n the Lab boy from the gc , with my little man on tow, lol, yep smak me the f around , I need it, I have a delimma, am I biting off too much, Cheers Absy Can't be, no such thing

A brief history of TSS's forum's "uncontrolled PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its special breed of "neo-NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism". Man . . . that is an awesome post. "Yep smak me the f around". Love it!!! Haven't laughed so much since the pre-MayPac days when NostRADAMazz serially released his tribal nonsense posts selling all manner of magic tricks and potions as if it were the snake oil cure for cancer. These serially released NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense posts seemed to be published on the back of what was probably a NostRADAMazzPacErection that was probably caused by an overdose of Viagra. Nevertheless, one after the other, sensational claims that were as empty as they were fantastic - about magic potions, how Pac performs, how Floyd will get KO'd, and many other Amazing claims, with each one being successively more hysterical, hypocritical, non-sensical, inaccurate, fantastic, and of course completely un-defendable than the previous - were released, and then galloped away, from. This is where the term "Donkey Magic" came from. As each PacQueen and/or "magical" claim hit the forums there was usually 3 or 7 tribal voodoo dancers or political forum head-kickers - that had previously enjoyed the freedom and strength that tribal warfare and their special brand of bullying afforded them to not only cover off on how they themselves consistently failed to check, scrutinize and substantiate, but to also misdirect and attack whenever someone questioned how such purposes were used to ridicule and insult - that would always, without fail, jump in head first; thinking (and making excuses) later.
StormCentre changed all that because he's not afraid of gangs, bullies, the truth, and/or lies, and he fought for freedom of speech and equal rights for the truth. One of
StormCentre'smottos, at that time and still today, was that (even though the lies are funny) the truth should - in the very least - enjoy the same freedom and quantity as (all) the lies that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and of course NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense posts have all enjoyed. Additionally, because the
StormCentre is a fair
StormCentre he also openly stated that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and of course the NostRADAMazz tribal nonsense should be given a fair (un-bullying like) chance to explain themselves before their claims/actions should be treated/deemed as rubbish. This explains both; A) Why questions are sometimes released about seemingly fantastic claims authored by the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal voicebox. B) The entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal voicebox have - to date - probably explained - at best - 5% of their claims; or put another way galloped from - at least - 95% of them. So, . . . aside from the mounting pile of raw claims that were galloped away from (more on that later) this left us with so much humor and secondary - but equally fantastic - claims . . . or better put excuses. But now - due to the above-mentioned history of the matter - it was clear what was probably fact and fiction. Or put another way we had effectively sorted the sh.it (claims) from the clay; so the truth could be seen for all whom appreciate it in equal quantities to its antithesis and popular counterpart. A similar thing happens in boxing/gyms. People "talk" all the time. Then they glove up and we see the truth. Boxing worships the truth, even though it is full of the opposite in some areas. So, with that all said . . . . fast forward to today. What the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal non-sense have really left us with (see below links if you're still not convinced) is about 70 - 100 or so Amasengly incredible (and I mean incredible; like circulation that goes 20,000 times a second around your body possibly assisted with cherry juice and cinnamon dust) claims. Now this is all fine . . because as you say it's only having fun. But, and this is the point, since the
StormCentre - whom was previously (pre-MayPac) much quieter and sat back as he watched the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act gather momentum and become bullies - has fought for freedom of speech both parties can now have fun with the lies, and (the rejection/absence of) the truth. You see previously only that party (the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act) that rejected truth, attacked those whom asked questions, and released lies, were having fun. Now, the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act still get to release, cheer for, and subscribe to what makes them giddy (claims they can't explain) - but at the same time everyone gets to see precisely how reliable those claims are due to the above-mentioned fair actions of
StormCentre. Actions that do nothing other than (singularly take the heat of what the truth/questions and freedom of speech really means, and) ask the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act to explain what they're cheering, complaining, and claiming about. This provides for both the truth and its diagonally opposed counterpart - that the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act often support - to coexist; freedom of speech. It also allows seasoned and new forum posters to easily recognize and make a call for themselves about what precisely is the truth and its diagonally opposed counterpart; due to the fact that most truths are easily substantiated and explained, and - of course - the entire "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act often are unable to do this. So, naturally, then both seasoned and new forum posters, can then easily see, not be misled, and feel free to express themselves as they wish; freedom of speech. (Most) people are not (trying to be) stupid, and they will quickly see that there is a reason that truth, questions, and answers does not seem to co/exist anywhere other than outside the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act. As the McDonalds burger chain CEO once said; it's all about choices.
StormCentre today provides for the lies and also the truth. He loves them both, even though he uses others lies for humor and also knows the truth is the easiest to remember and best philosophy. OK . . . so back in the pre-MayPac days when the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act were releasing all the above-mentioned excuses and unsubstantiated claims . . . . that was really good fun. We had quite literally never seen such a good example of successively; not learning from mistakes - resorting to more extreme claims that can't be proven to cover off on previous ones that smelt just as bad, and history doomed to repeat itself due to not learning from mistakes. It was so funny. You had PacQueens telling "evereebody an dey mamma" in loud cheerful voices (that also attacked anyone not in agreement) what Pac had done and that Pac was going to do this and that (all fantastic claims). And, these same people right at that time and even know simply didn't even (bother to fact-check) know if Pac was going forward, backward, juicing with PEDs, lying, and/or incubating shoulder injuries. Not even when Pac's trainer and promoter came out and effectively said Pac was on the PEDs when he achieved his catch-weight successes did any of these cats stop, think, and change tact. Instead, it was "ready", "fire", "aim" . . . and, full steam ahead in wild claim, attack, and "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act, mode. Far out man. . . back then - and even know with all the pretending, fantasy, and rampant ease that most negative Floyd claims are sexually PacQueen swallowed/consumed without even the slightest scrutiny, leaving a mountain of unanswered and hilarious questions trailing in their wake - we laughed so hard that my email inbox actually crashed my phone's OS due to all the messages I was getting about both; how the freedom of speech fight was worthwhile, and how it seemed that no amount of exposure, fact, suspicion, and running could make the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and the NostRADAMazz tribal act . . . stop, think, listen, and realize that there was a reason they can't, explain themselves and/or their wild and/or incredible claims, and simply stop. At one stage I had more than 350 emails - just on my phone - almost all of them both, offering support for exposing (their terms) idiotic stupidity and lies, and thanking me for the laughs. So, as you see - I agree with you - there is fun in the truth and lies, and many visitors to this site (an my inbox) agree too, and also appreciate the chance to clearly make a decision on what claims are made; without feeling peer group pressure to prematurely subscribe to fiction or fact - just to fit in. Its all about choices. Yep, back then - particularly with the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its main and most non-sensical cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribal act" it was like a totally stupified Benny Hill took 5 high powered Canadian processed ecstasy pills, then did a line of cocaine, and then had a love child with a KarashianClown on the surgery table of a veterinary birthing clinic for donkeys that hadn't been properly cleaned down since last use; then out came the biggest PacQueenDonkey of them all. Someone that not only never thought before making even the most wild/extreme "cinnamon powered fast handed 122 clinch puncher" claims, only to then find himself scared and galloping away from them as soon as they even smelt like they may attract a question - but also someone that behaved like a cross between a donkey, witchdoctor, and someone that thought he was a NostRADAMazz of the ages. This is where the term "NostRADAMazz", and variants on the "PacQueenDonkey" theme originated from. So, Absy, as you can see there are many simplified forms, names, and terms that can humorously apply to the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement", its main cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribalism act", and its faithful followers that have subscribed to "fiction worshipping", "myth", "magic", "voodoo", "hypocrisy" and, "running" for far too long to stop now. And, just a small amount of proof of this can easily be seen in (if not in the below-linked {point "B"} Evasion & Hypocritical Hall of Fame) how no-one can meaningfully take the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions about their posts, claims and beliefs associated with; Floyd, Pacquaio, PacQueens, and MayPac. And - for the record - the
Storm is not upset that they can't take the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions, either. As freedom of speech applies to those whom pretend, have different views, misplace their faith, dream, and can't explain too, you know. Actually, truth be told, the
Storm probably prefers it this way. It is perhaps a crazy irony that (in some ways)
Storm values the truth - but at the same time prefers that the "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement", its main cheerleader "the NostRADAMazz tribalism act", and its faithful followers that have subscribed to "fiction worshipping", "myth", "magic", "voodoo", "hypocrisy" and, "running" for so long - can not accept the financial reward/challenge and/or answer any of
Storm's (or those that are emailed to him) fair/reasonable questions. As without this perpetual fantasy and it's enigmatic and humorous dichotomy there would probably be nothing to laugh at. For instance . . . . Sometimes, when I go to some of these boxing gyms - or when other cats attend mine and/or where I am - due to how funny and unforgotten all discussed above really is/was - it takes only minutes (sometimes I am not even in the gym) before we all start laughing at "fantasy" claims like; ""Da Manny backing up is what got Ricky Hatton KTFO when Big Floyd was Hatton's trainer"", and how they were ran from and dealt with .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20143-So-Floyd-Has-Been-Hurting-Sparring-Partners&p=77625&viewfull=1#post77625 So aside from the fact that all this substantiates that both (a)
StormCentredoes (a) have fun with the truth and lies, and (b) the truth is the easiest to remember; that particular NostRADAMazz fantasy claim was not only so abjectly wrong and hilarious - but it also clearly showed that even PacQueen's with the most easy virtue about their womanhood, themselves and also Pacquaio - as they carped/cried aloud about what they believe in with the most decibels and vehemency, and as they claimed they're in Pac's entourage (to make us think they know) - were, basically, (at least with respect to the ""Da Manny backing up . . . . "" claim anyway) totally clueless as to what fact really is and/or whether what they say (or Pac himself) is going backwards or forwards. Telling it was that the "PacQueen" that released that claim was also claiming to be in Pac's entourage. This is where the term "PacEntourage", or "PacQueenEntourage" came from. Absy, the above link and its NostRADAMazz fantasy claim is but one of literally tens and/or hundreds of gaseous, completely undefended, incredible, and utterly hilarious claims that were all laid down pre-MayPac. These fantasy claims were pooped out of the donkey's behind on a foundation of what can only be described as a form of "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz-PacQueen like Nazi tribalism" - that was itself reliant upon sterile and immature philosophies of both bullying and placing faith in mythical concepts and claims (that can never be proven, and therefore questioned) that, at times, sought to divide the community; between those whom believed and those whom dared to ask questions. even if you threw a mix of philosophy together that was reminiscent of a blend between - Louis CK's best humor, president's Bush's best goofs, and the most extreme elements of Nationalsozialismus - instilled it into the heads of a barrel of drunken monkeys that were possessed by Linda Blair and the Devil; the result would still not be as wild, chaotic, inconsistent, and as unproven as that which we have from the above-mentioned "PacLossExcuseMovement" and the "NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism's future forecasting. That said, I know which one is funnier. Perhaps, even more funny and incredible than all that was how - that is before
StormCentre commenced fighting for "freedom of speech" rights for those whom appreciate the truth too, and dealing with the matter head on, sometimes even when it was 10 or 15 "PacQueenBullies" to one poor old
StormCentre - popular such a movement was. Hence both; A) The shortened term/labeling; "PacQueenBullies", and of course the already mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement". B) And also this;
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 You will probably have a laugh at that post, and in fact the entire thread will provide you with good insight into how much I (already) agree with some of your written sentiments. Anyway, the writing is on the wall now though for the "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz-PacQueen like Nazi tribalism", and for the most part - particularly if judged in terms of its accountability, accuracy, substance, truth-rejection quantities, and hypocrisy - the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" like tribalism has gone down very poorly. Especially now that it is clear both, what "PacQueen" claims can not be anywhere near even remotely clarified, and also just how easily those same "simple" claims brought joy to the "PacQueen" movement - joy that at times even motivated them into a tribal attack; regardless of whether or not questions where asked about such claims. On a percentage basis (and this is important as one leading NostRADAMazz "PacQueen" - without proof of course - recently galloped from the claim that a "scientific" survey resulted in a large percentage/amount of people that supposedly wanted a MayPac2 fight) this is evidenced by how frequently the above-mentioned "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" and its special brand of "act now-excuse later" tribalism; 1) Can not defend itself in simple and understandable terms. 2) Runs from questions. 3) Fails almost always 100% of the time to explain even those matters it feels/advertises most strongly about. 4) Resorts to baseless claims/hate. 5) Outright refuses to look at all the issues (even) it raises. 6) Is afraid to look properly at Pacquaio, and all related issues. 7) Can’t be paid to even consider the truth on many issues - some that it has used itself to unreasonably kick people whom are down and genuinely unwell, and/or great - that it brings into existence and prematurely celebrates. I hope you appreciate this brief insight that
StormCentre has put together for you into the history of TSS's forum's "uncontrolled neo-NostRADAMazz like Nazi tribalism", and its special breed of "PacQueenLossExcuseMovement" that seems forever addicted to non-accountability, inaccuracy, substancelessness, truth-rejection, and hypocrisy. OK, that’s enough truth, fact, and humor. Back to your brilliant offer to attend a gym; "Yep smak me the f around". One thing to remember . . . well three. 1) There is a serious pecking order in our gym and, if I am not there, I will not always be able to regulate. For instance I remember when Echols came over and thought he would be the top dog cause it was just "sleepy little Australia". That dude went into his fight with Mundine with cracked ribs and very sore chops. So . . . . 2) Sometimes, it pays to be careful what you ask for. That said, I do really love your ""Yep smak me the f around"" line, and . . . . I couldn’t care, type of style. 3) as you rightly suggest; there is *fun, value, and humor in both lies, and the truth. The latter particularly when making big claims and/or ridiculing others. As then you should have to back it up. Also, do you think I'm not having fun with all the *lies and obvious running from them, that's going on here? :) I have constant support emails from people at gyms on the East coast here, and also many from the USA, about how much the truth hurts and is rejected here - it's a scream. F.uck I love that line . . . ."Yep smak me the f around". Anyway, great post. I like it when people take a shot at me (humorous, playfully or otherwise), stand up for what they believe in, and are not afraid to explain themselves. So, in response . . . here, have a listen to this . . . .

Storm. :) :)


-Kid Blast :

I hear you,


-Kid Blast :

Why not put the guy non your ignore list? I did. Holla


-Radam G :

Bytch-@$$ cheating lil Floyd and his peons and nut huggers have nowhere to run.
->http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=270996. Holla!


-stormcentre :

Why not put the guy non your ignore list? I did. Holla

->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22601-Mayweather-Is-49-0-Won-t-Go-and-We-Still-Don-t-Know!&p=87862&viewfull=1#post87862


-vasja :

I had a quick and dirty look into TE ratios. !!This might be pervy to a mistake!!. Still, just a bit of perspective. I found one source with results based on 4000 TE ratios recorded. I didn't read the study fully, very little time today :) . TE ratio distributes in a mixture of two log-normal distributions (see figure 2). First group of people exhibits a low TE ratio, with geometric mean of .141 and standard deviation 1.43 (if Floyd belongs to this group he is simply normal, though in one study i read that this group is mostly populated with asians). Second group of people exhibits a TE ratio with a geometric mean of 1.40 and sd 1.81. Assuming Floyd belongs to the second group, a value of .69 implies that, using the log-normal cumulative distribution, 16.2% of normal/non-steroid users could have lower TE ratios than Floyd. If we take Conte's normal value being from 1-1.3, let's take 1.2 (and the standard deviation as reported in the study), this percentage would be 20% (1 in 5!).
->http://biostatistics.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2006/06/19/biostatistics.kxl009.full.pdf I am not saying Floyd is/is-not using. I am saying it is not a definitive proof. Without further testing we will never know.


-Radam G :

Bytch-@$$ cheating lil Floyd and his peons and nut huggers have nowhere to run.
->http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=270996. Holla!
Holla at the evidence for yourself. And learn how the process works. Lil Floyd has been caught before. And he now has nowhere to run. You can see for yourself what he did in using IVs in 2011 and 2013 to dilute dat syet. He came in under the human ratio of a minimum of 1-to-1. And dat is a red flag like a mutha of being full of dat syet and diluting your blood in an effort to hide. Holla!


-Radam G :

TBDE -- The Best Doper Ever -- Money May is now an example of the sleazy "theatre of the rejected," I mean "theatre of the unexpected." Holla!


-Radam G :

I had a quick and dirty look into TE ratios. !!This might be pervy to a mistake!!. Still, just a bit of perspective. I found one source with results based on 4000 TE ratios recorded. I didn't read the study fully, very little time today :) . TE ratio distributes in a mixture of two log-normal distributions (see figure 2). First group of people exhibits a low TE ratio, with geometric mean of .141 and standard deviation 1.43 (if Floyd belongs to this group he is simply normal, though in one study i read that this group is mostly populated with asians). Second group of people exhibits a TE ratio with a geometric mean of 1.40 and sd 1.81. Assuming Floyd belongs to the second group, a value of .69 implies that, using the log-normal cumulative distribution, 16.2% of normal/non-steroid users could have lower TE ratios than Floyd. If we take Conte's normal value being from 1-1.3, let's take 1.2 (and the standard deviation as reported in the study), this percentage would be 20% (1 in 5!).
->http://biostatistics.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2006/06/19/biostatistics.kxl009.full.pdf I am not saying Floyd is/is-not using. I am saying it is not a definitive proof. Without further testing we will never know.
The proof is hidden in plain sight. And we will find out when the time is right. Matter of fact, Lil Floyd will admit to it. And say that it was aight! His alibis will be that boxing is a shady, sneaky, sleazy, red-light dIstrict business. Holla!


-stormcentre :

CIR testing on all retrograde blood samples from Pac and Floyd then . . . . eh? Or . . . just Floyd? Full disclosure on all MRI and other scans related to both fighter's claimed injuries too? Or . . . just Floyd? Brad . . look here; short post for you. :) :)


-deepwater2 :

CIR testing on all retrograde blood samples from Pac and Floyd then . . . . eh? Or . . . just Floyd? Full disclosure on all MRI and other scans related to both fighter's claimed injuries too? Or . . . just Floyd? Brad . . look here; short post for you. :) :)
Yes, CIR testing, on every fighter if possible including MP. Look at what the CEO Taggert said in June of this year regarding the issue: "What's important to remember is the WADA list is the list of prohibited substances. So, those are what most people consider the drugs, the performance enhancing drugs, but it's also the prohibited substance and methods. And there are certain methods, like an IV infusion that you just mentioned, or gene doping or autologous or homologous blood transfusion, where you take someone else's blood in advance of a bout and it gives you oxygen carrying capacity and recovery capacity and all sorts of benefits. It would be, by the way, game changing benefits. So, the IVs are allowed under certain circumstances under the WADA prohibited list.
You know, if you're in the hospital, clinic, having surgery. If you need it outside of those, you have to apply for a TUE. It's not, as you just indicated, not prohibited in most, or any that we're aware of, licensing commissions. So, there's going to be some education, obviously, around that. The purpose for it was to ensure... And you may... I don't know how closely you've followed our investigation into cycling, but you saw it used a lot in cycling.
Because, putting a bag of saline over 50 ml, for example is the rule, would potentially mask or alter the blood testing that was done. And there were examples in there where athletes would put a bag of saline in their arm when they saw the blood collectors coming to collect their blood. And they just delayed reporting for 15 min. So, that was really the purpose behind the rule. So, there's going to be some education around that and ensuring that, where athletes do need it, if it's in an area that's not allowed, so it's not in one of those other settings, that they go through the TUE process. And those are going to be, as always, we've had dozens of those applied for over the years since it became on the list, prohibited in certain circumstances. But certainly education around the drug list and the prohibited methods list, like the IVs, is going to be a key part of rolling this program out and ensuring that the athletes are fully aware of what the rules are and how to comply with those rules, so that there's no unintentional type violations. Because that's not why we're here. We're here to stop those who are intentionally cheating with dangerous and performance enhancing drugs that rob their competitors of their rights under the rules." Regarding Floyd, why did he need 750 ml via IV? How many times has he done this? If the USADA says you just have to delay the blood collectors 15 minutes to use a mask it seems Floyd is definitely acting suspicious.


-deepwater2 :

Just stopped by the ER at lunch and read the patients pamphlet. "Purpose of Intravenous Rehydration IV rehydration is a treatment that is used for cases of dehydration. When a person becomes dehydrated, fluid including water and dissolved salts, called electrolytes, is lost from the body. For mild cases of dehydration, that loss can be restored by drinking water or electrolyte solutions, such as sports drinks. For moderate or severe cases of dehydration, the body may not respond to attempts to re hydrate orally." So I know children get IV's to re hydrate because of diarrhea and vomiting so they can't hold anything down like the electrolyte drinks. So if Floyd was throwing up or had the runs an IV would be justified. I just filled a 50 ml syringe with saline and it is heck of a lot of fluid. I only need 10 ml when flushing a line.


-amayseng :

Just stopped by the ER at lunch and read the patients pamphlet. "Purpose of Intravenous Rehydration IV rehydration is a treatment that is used for cases of dehydration. When a person becomes dehydrated, fluid including water and dissolved salts, called electrolytes, is lost from the body. For mild cases of dehydration, that loss can be restored by drinking water or electrolyte solutions, such as sports drinks. For moderate or severe cases of dehydration, the body may not respond to attempts to re hydrate orally." So I know children get IV's to re hydrate because of diarrhea and vomiting so they can't hold anything down like the electrolyte drinks. So if Floyd was throwing up or had the runs an IV would be justified. I just filled a 50 ml syringe with saline and it is heck of a lot of fluid. I only need 10 ml when flushing a line.
Floyd was 3 lbs over the limit 30 days out from the fight. He clearly was not dehydrated, if so why wasnt this administered at the hospital? why at home? and why 750ml? MANY rules broken and the only thing grown men fan boys can do is ignore the facts and talk about Pac and his shoulder. btw i believe that trt should be legal for guys over 35 but only to get test levels to where they are even and legal, due to age they diminish over time. however i believe in breaking rules is breaking rules.


-stormcentre :

Yes, CIR testing, on every fighter if possible including MP. Look at what the CEO Taggert said in June of this year regarding the issue: "What's important to remember is the WADA list is the list of prohibited substances. So, those are what most people consider the drugs, the performance enhancing drugs, but it's also the prohibited substance and methods. And there are certain methods, like an IV infusion that you just mentioned, or gene doping or autologous or homologous blood transfusion, where you take someone else's blood in advance of a bout and it gives you oxygen carrying capacity and recovery capacity and all sorts of benefits. It would be, by the way, game changing benefits. So, the IVs are allowed under certain circumstances under the WADA prohibited list.
You know, if you're in the hospital, clinic, having surgery. If you need it outside of those, you have to apply for a TUE. It's not, as you just indicated, not prohibited in most, or any that we're aware of, licensing commissions. So, there's going to be some education, obviously, around that. The purpose for it was to ensure... And you may... I don't know how closely you've followed our investigation into cycling, but you saw it used a lot in cycling.
Because, putting a bag of saline over 50 ml, for example is the rule, would potentially mask or alter the blood testing that was done. And there were examples in there where athletes would put a bag of saline in their arm when they saw the blood collectors coming to collect their blood. And they just delayed reporting for 15 min. So, that was really the purpose behind the rule. So, there's going to be some education around that and ensuring that, where athletes do need it, if it's in an area that's not allowed, so it's not in one of those other settings, that they go through the TUE process. And those are going to be, as always, we've had dozens of those applied for over the years since it became on the list, prohibited in certain circumstances. But certainly education around the drug list and the prohibited methods list, like the IVs, is going to be a key part of rolling this program out and ensuring that the athletes are fully aware of what the rules are and how to comply with those rules, so that there's no unintentional type violations. Because that's not why we're here. We're here to stop those who are intentionally cheating with dangerous and performance enhancing drugs that rob their competitors of their rights under the rules." Regarding Floyd, why did he need 750 ml via IV? How many times has he done this? If the USADA says you just have to delay the blood collectors 15 minutes to use a mask it seems Floyd is definitely acting suspicious.
Whew good to get a response to some of the outstanding considerations. Glad someone that supports Pac believes the sport is worth testing all/both fighters for; cause it's not like Pac is without suspicion either. I agree the IV matter and Floyd's involvement is suspicious and concerning - I have always said that. I don't know why Floyd used 750ml (if he did), but if he did, and then he still confirmed that, it then raises questions about what he was doing and why he would confirm the IV use and the (excessive in terms of WADA) amount; if he was doping. To me, all the stuff about how the WADA policies are breached is all null; in terms of how it applies to MayPac – and I imagine this is why the questions/considerations about this that I detail are not being meaningfully addressed.
I am not saying that means it's all cool and Floyd did no wrong. But one of the white elephants in the room that no writer, donkey, witchdoctor, Queen, or anyone else seems to want to meaningfully acknowledge (besides what Roach and Arum say about Pac's juicing) is why did Pac/Arum, Floyd and USADA all agree that the WADA policies don't apply? Since they don't (by agreement of Pac and Floyd) apply, and Hauser admits it (despite still pursuing the matter with a peppering of references to Pac and MayPac without so much as suggesting that Pac should be retrograde CIR and other tested), the IV matter is really null and ethereal; much, much more so than the above-mentioned admissions of Roach and Arum in relation to Pac's juicing. All you can do is - selectively - speculate about it. See, if you really want to nail Floyd on this (and I personally don't mind if people do that properly and evenhanded; so long as it's not agenda driven which - while all the outstanding issues remain ran from - Hauser's work on this to date has been in my opinion) you, we, Queens, and even donkeys need to show a clear obstruction to the rules that apply. Again; the rules that apply. Or, conversely; ask why the rules that people want to apply, don't. It's that simple. And,it seems to me that that those questions are not being asked because they place Pac in some of the spotlight that Hauser, Queens, and even donkeys only want shone on Floyd; as then that takes a lot of heat off Pac. You see, as I am sure you, me and many a PacQueen knows, once you start to approach the matter professionally and properly, you get to questions about both fighters; 1) Previous tests (including their testosterone-to-epitestosterone-ratio test results). 2) Previous familiarity with working with USADA and/or allowing IV infusions. 3) Familiarity with designing and signing contracts that negate WADA policies. 4) Were happy for the the IV matter is, as far as the applicable rules/regulations are concerned, to be allowed and therefore null. From there, it opens up a pandoras box of issues/questions such as those detailed here . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22608-Hauser-on-Mayweather-Berto&p=87889&viewfull=1#post87889
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22532-Hauser-Fires-At-USADA-and-Floyd-USADA-Then-Floyd-Respond&p=87731&viewfull=1#post87731
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22532-Hauser-Fires-At-USADA-and-Floyd-USADA-Then-Floyd-Respond&p=87555&viewfull=1#post87555
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22532-Hauser-Fires-At-USADA-and-Floyd-USADA-Then-Floyd-Respond&p=87564&viewfull=1#post87564 Whilst all these hard questions and other matters are skipped over and treated without both objectivity and an even hand, Hauser's "enquiry" into PEDs as they apply to Floyd and Pac will probably be as shambolic as the PED scene itself and how Queens approach the truth. Finally, just to make it crystal clear; I support - not only a fair PED enquiry into both fighters and how they have approached their fights/contracts - but also retrograde CIR testing and also the release of all previous testosterone-to-epitestosterone-ratios for Floyd and Pac. Thanks for your response. :) :)


-vasja :

Serious question. How does IV change the TE ratio? I mean, if ratio TE is say 1:1 adding water should reduce the ammount of both T AND E in the blood, so the ratio itself should stay the same (unless E is added to IV liquid). I don't doubt that IV is being used to mask dopping. But how does it work?


-stormcentre :

It can be complex Vasja, and the techniques and possibilities change all the time. But put simply things that you inject either directly in your blood or subcutaneously (which even then can ends up your blood anyway) can increase hormones and/or testosterone counts/ratios. The increase of hormones and/or testosterone, then can lead to other performance enhancing benefits. Doing a blood test will tell you information about your hormone count/ratio and many other PED related things; but not all PED related things. When you flush your blood out with an intravenous fusion (of saline and the other safe stuff Floyd was said to have used in his suspicious {due to not what was in the IV fusion, but what other purposes the IV fusion can be used for} IV infusion) you're effectively diluting/replacing "pre-existing" blood (blood, that could have increased; oxygen carrying haemoglobin cells {EPO telltale sign} and/or hormones {synthetic hormone telltale sign} and/or something else in it) with "other substances". The other substances - if used in the manner Floyd is suspected of using them - within the IV fusion itself usually are both (a) inert (null) in a PED sense and (b) an excellent means of rehydrating. But, the more - of what Floyd is said to have used in his IV fusion - that you flush through your system then the more you change what may otherwise be high/suspicious; testosterone, haemoglobin cells, and red blood cell, counts/ratios. Also, once you announce you have done it, as Floyd did when he announced it to USADA -
and this is yet another strategic point that Hauser and many other people/Queens either look over or don't understand/know - most testing agencies (especially those without a will and/or extremely sophisticated testing techniques and systems) will not test you for a while; because they know any result can easily be contested with the fact that they have just undertaken an IV procedure for "rehydration" purposes. Thus is because IV fusions alter blood tests that occur too closely to the fusion, and that's enough to make the testing authorities (predictably) stay away. Therefore you can both legitimately rehydrate and, also illegitimately hide previous PED use with an IV fusion. Whilst this is not what Floyd is suspected of doing - even though he could have been - you can also have an IV fusion to infuse already PED and/or EPO doped blood, as well. There are many variants on the theme. You can also have an IV fusion to infuse already PED and/or EPO doped blood, as well as take - via another direct injection - more PEDs, peptides, and/or hormone/testosterone "supplements", too. Don't be fooled; neither Pacquaio or Floyd are strangers to the PED scene. Nailing them is a different matter. For years Pacquaio and Arum enjoyed the loose policies of USADA and achieved incredible things whilst skating very close to revealing they did it with PEDs; Pac's trainer and promoter have effectively admitted Pac was using. Floyd has controlled the fight game and his fights for a while now, and - whilst his trainers and promoters have not confirmed any PED use/suspicion like Pacquaio's have - Floyd is also usually associated with guys that seem to use PEDs, and therfore the likelihood that Mayweather is completely clean is the same that PacQueens will look at all issues and agree to retrograde testing of both Floyd and Pac; which is really the only way to 100% confirm what they have been doing. Anyway, because it's complex and detailed to get into how it all works, for starters (and to cure any insomnia) look at these . . . 1)
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16355-You-all-need-to-see-this&p=59038&highlight=hypoxia#post59038 2)
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20307-What-Would-The-Nevada-Commission-Do-If-Floyd-or-Manny-Tested-Positive&p=78383&highlight=hypoxia#post78383 3)
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21229-Floyd-Mayweather-Jr-The-Best-Ever-Hardly&p=82943&highlight=hypoxia#post82943 4) Even NostRADAMazz . . when she was my unrequested cheerleader . . . loved this post . . . see his comments below it;
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16242-Floyd-and-Maidana-Will-Do-USADA-Testing&p=58436&highlight=hypoxia#post58436 Cheers,
Storm.


-brownsugar :

According to reports another conveniently omitted fact is that there was an official present when Floyd took the IV, and secondly Arum isn't pursuing any action whatsoever against the result saying " it's meaningless ".


-stormcentre :

According to reports another conveniently omitted fact is that there was an official present when Floyd took the IV, and secondly Arum isn't pursuing any action whatsoever against the result saying " it's meaningless ".
Yes interesting isn't it. Won't stop the Queening and pretending though.... the facts/truth never have. They get in the way of "selective misinterpretation" and a good FloydHate story. If you want a good laugh have a look at some of the YouTube videos NostRADAMazz is posting and using as references; and not just in his new thread - where he is doing the equivalent of talking (posting) to himself. The PacPuppy has quite literally humped his own leg stupid with this approach and now things are all sticky and smelly. Some of the guys in the videos (he is referencing) are so clueless that it's both hilarious and embarrassing (to him) how anyone could possibly think it helps their case. Ah well...... who would have thought a NostRADAMazz could be both a puppy and a donkey? I guess anything is possible when you know every iota of boxing, can employ the moon to cure hair loss, and can make blood circulate at 30000 times per second with cinnamon and cherry juice. At the end of the day he's just a free spirited PacQueenDonkey that met the truth, never recognized it, but still galloped away from it scared that it might jolt him back to reality. He sure is happy with his new bone though; misinterpretation of how WADA policies work with his (own) PacEntourage so that it takes the spotlight off all the bigger PacPED issues that are not getting addressed. Love it !!! 😊


-stormcentre :

According to reports another conveniently omitted fact is that there was an official present when Floyd took the IV, and secondly Arum isn't pursuing any action whatsoever against the result saying " it's meaningless ".
Yes interesting isn't it. Won't stop the *Queening and pretending though.... the facts/truth never have. ("Note; a few days later that when the main body of this post was published; we (as predicted) have *proof of the above sentence; * )
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22637-Statement-of-Thomas-Hauser-with-Regard-to-the-September-17-2015-Comments-by-USADA&p=88010&viewfull=1#post88010 * )
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22637-Statement-of-Thomas-Hauser-with-Regard-to-the-September-17-2015-Comments-by-USADA&p=88011&viewfull=1#post88011 ") They get in the way of "selective misinterpretation" and a good FloydHate story. If you want a good laugh have a look at some of the YouTube videos NostRADAMazz is posting and using as references; and not just in his new thread - where he is doing the equivalent of talking (posting) to himself. The PacPuppy has quite literally humped his own leg stupid with this approach and now things are all sticky and smelly. Some of the guys in the videos (he is referencing) are so clueless that it's both hilarious and embarrassing (to him) how anyone could possibly think it helps their case. Ah well...... who would have thought a NostRADAMazz could be both a puppy and a donkey? I guess anything is possible when you know every iota of boxing, can employ the moon to cure hair loss, and can make blood circulate at 30000 times per second with cinnamon and cherry juice. At the end of the day he's just a free spirited PacQueenDonkey that met the truth, never recognized it, but still galloped away from it scared that it might jolt him back to reality. He sure is happy with his new bone though; misinterpretation of how WADA policies work with his (own) PacEntourage so that it takes the spotlight off all the bigger PacPED issues that are not getting addressed. Love it !!! :) :)


-stormcentre :

According to reports another conveniently omitted fact is that there was an official present when Floyd took the IV, and secondly Arum isn't pursuing any action whatsoever against the result saying " it's meaningless ".
Yes interesting isn't it. Won't stop the *Queening and pretending though.... the facts/truth never have. ("Note; a few days later that when the main body of this post was published; we (as predicted) have *proof of the above sentence; * )
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22637-Statement-of-Thomas-Hauser-with-Regard-to-the-September-17-2015-Comments-by-USADA&p=88010&viewfull=1#post88010 * )
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22637-Statement-of-Thomas-Hauser-with-Regard-to-the-September-17-2015-Comments-by-USADA&p=88015&viewfull=1#post88015 ") They get in the way of "selective misinterpretation" and a good FloydHate story. If you want a good laugh have a look at some of the YouTube videos NostRADAMazz is posting and using as references; and not just in his new thread - where he is doing the equivalent of talking (posting) to himself. The PacPuppy has quite literally humped his own leg stupid with this approach and now things are all sticky and smelly. Some of the guys in the videos (he is referencing) are so clueless that it's both hilarious and embarrassing (to him) how anyone could possibly think it helps their case. Ah well...... who would have thought a NostRADAMazz could be both a puppy and a donkey? I guess anything is possible when you know every iota of boxing, can employ the moon to cure hair loss, and can make blood circulate at 30000 times per second with cinnamon and cherry juice. At the end of the day he's just a free spirited PacQueenDonkey that met the truth, never recognized it, but still galloped away from it scared that it might jolt him back to reality. He sure is happy with his new bone though; misinterpretation of how WADA policies work with his (own) PacEntourage so that it takes the spotlight off all the bigger PacPED issues that are not getting addressed. Love it !!! :) :)


-stormcentre :

According to reports another conveniently omitted fact is that
there was an official present when Floyd took the IV, and secondly Arum isn't pursuing any action whatsoever against the result saying "
it's meaningless ".
Then there is the fact that CIR testing was done by USADA. And the fact that Floyd called the officials to be there. :) Unfortunately for Queens, puppies, and donkeys, and in direct conflict with Hauser?s questionable (and PacCheered) claims carbon isotope ratio testing actually took place for MayPac testing. CIR testing was conducted on all urine samples collected from both Mayweather and Pacquiao - all 22 samples - during the entire MayPac testing program; according to USADA statements and documents. Put all that with the fact that the WADA policies don't apply (because Floyd and Pac didn't wan't them too), and what you really have is a lot of Queening and wet patches on the floor of the puppy compound, where the donkey that has made his way in through the back door, is only to happy to lick them all up. Additionally, USADA claim that focusing only on CIR testing does not always ensure testing remains up to the current scientific practices. I'm not entirely sure about that, but I admit it sounds secure. But the fact that USADA actually did do CIR testing (whilst Hauser says they didn't; in a manner where no Queens have "discovered" and/or announced the inconsistency there, perhaps preferring to leave it it their benefit) is yet another reason to question Hauser's motive on this concerning line of work he is subjectively doing in an unreliable manner. Additionally, contrary to inferences of Hauser's work that suggest otherwise, looking at USADA documents it can be seen that they monitor athlete?s urine and blood profiles as a means to detect fluctuations in athlete?s blood. This means that this process then must also highlight an athlete's steroid and testosterone-epitestosterone values, within their blood. More detail from USADA on how these processes work and what their limitations may be would be good. But the fact that they both exist within USADA's framework and also draw a contrast with Hasuer's claims/work is as comforting as Hauser's work is becoming increasingly obvious that it is agenda driven and peppered with "convenient" oversights; that lend themselves to rampant and knee jerk instances of PacQueening. However, for now "what would possibly be instructive: would be if Hauser goes back and amends the errors within his work. Even if doing so it means that tissues need to be handed out to all easily misled PacQueens. Finally, I should imagine that (forget all the other points I have raised for now . . .) just the above considerations alone are probably why this little PacPuppy . . . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?22639-Enough-About-A-Cheat-Another-Ali-Is-Going-To-Bring-The-Heat . . . . Is; lonely - confused - has the red pencil out and is humping his own leg absolutely stupid - celebrating success yet to be achieved - and is posting/talking to himself. :) :) :)


-vasja :

Thanks Storm. Yes, I read those posts with pleasure and a while back. Thanks you for putting them together! But i was more or less wandering how you can use IV to change the ratio of TE. I understand how IV might work by reducing the overall/absolute amount of steroids in blood. But to change the ratio... i don't know. Let me explain with a made up example. Suppose you test a fighter and he is found to have 100 particles of T and 100 particles of E per X amount of blood in his body. The TE ratio is 100:100 = 1:1. Now add to his blood 2 litters of fluid. Suppose you now take another blood test and since IV dilutes the blood you now measure 80 particles of T and 80 particles of E per X amount of blood. His TE ratio is now/still 80:80 = 1:1. It seems to me that for IV to change the ratio it should either: i) increase E by more than T, ii) decrease T by more than E. I don't know, perhaps something is added to IV that does i) or ii). For example, they could add E to the IV, or some kind of compound that destroys T. In Floyd's case it was checked by agency official and it was pure liquid and vitamins (no E or anything else). Assuming vitamins or liquid don't destroy T or generate E this can't really change the ratio at all. You could add 1000 litters, measure 1 particle of T and 1 particle of E, and still get the same 1:1 ratio. This I really don't get.


-Radam G :

Thanks Storm. Yes, I read those posts with pleasure and a while back. Thanks you for putting them together! But i was more or less wandering how you can use IV to change the ratio of TE. I understand how IV might work by reducing the overall/absolute amount of steroids in blood. But to change the ratio... i don't know. Let me explain with a made up example. Suppose you test a fighter and he is found to have 100 particles of T and 100 particles of E per X amount of blood in his body. The TE ratio is 100:100 = 1:1. Now add to his blood 2 litters of fluid. Suppose you now take another blood test and since IV dilutes the blood you now measure 80 particles of T and 80 particles of E per X amount of blood. His TE ratio is now/still 80:80 = 1:1. It seems to me that for IV to change the ratio it should either: i) increase E by more than T, ii) decrease T by more than E. I don't know, perhaps something is added to IV that does i) or ii). For example, they could add E to the IV, or some kind of compound that destroys T. In Floyd's case it was checked by agency official and it was pure liquid and vitamins (no E or anything else). Assuming vitamins or liquid don't destroy T or generate E this can't really change the ratio at all. You could add 1000 litters, measure 1 particle of T and 1 particle of E, and still get the same 1:1 ratio. This I really don't get.
A lot will soon get it. Holla!
->Https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ZLpmM64rI


-stormcentre :

A lot will soon get it. Holla!
->Https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ZLpmM64rI
Hmmmn . . . what can anyone say to this other than . . . . "Hee-Haw" And . . thank you. :) ************************************************** ************************************************** *************** [QUOTE=Madam G (Written On The Eve Of MayPac When Both Pac & PacEntourage Allegedly Had Only 1 Arm & No Chance Of Winning)]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20899-If-heaven-forbid-the-fight-is-a-stinker-what-does-that-portend-for-the-future-of-the-sweet-science&p=80806&viewfull=1#post80806 In his BIGGEST scrap, Big Floyd got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Uncle Roger got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Uncle Jeff got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Lil Floyd is going to get knocked out. Holla![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Madam G (Written On The Eve Of MayPac When Pac Allegedly Had Only 1 Arm & No Chance Of Winning)]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20899-If-heaven-forbid-the-fight-is-a-stinker-what-does-that-portend-for-the-future-of-the-sweet-science&p=80805&viewfull=1#post80805 It will not be a stinker. But it could be a short affair. With Money May shocked and on his arse.
He is nothing that he is pretending. And getting kayoed is always a Mayweather ending. Check the history. Holla! [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Unemployed Junk Scientist;80299] [QUOTE=stormcentre;80299]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=80299&viewfull=1#post80299 "
" section added to post #69 and it's E&HHoF.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 Recently updated with the following gems. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;80251]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80251&viewfull=1#post80251 You play, you pay. That is what real working men do. They don't give a puck what bottom feeders say. It is the name of the game. And there is no shame.
Those who never walked the path to greatness talk and make up the most syet. And they step in it too. Holla![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;80229]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80229&viewfull=1#post80229
A burnt mind is as is. And dimwitted too will be as it is. Money May is having his way. But in a week, two days and a wake up, his so-called Mayvinci Code will be broken. And he will be 47-1. Holla at the latest that favors him:
->http://rivals.ph/fight-sports/2015/04/22/32046/judge-who-made-mistake-in-previous-pacquiao-fight-to-judge-mayweather-pacquiao/. Holla![/QUOTE] Louis CK has nothing on this stuff; even when it is not put with all the other stuff in/at . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 Storm would like to thank the following for their unwavering assistance; 1) Freedom of speech rights. 2) Right of all to not explain, substantiate and/or refrain from (sometimes rampant and EPO fuelled) equivocation. :) [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;79255] My friend, I have to quote Uncle Roger May: "Most people don't know syet'bout boksin' [$i?].
StormCentre Note: This comment may apply to its author, but without
substantiation I can't be sure. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;77528]
There are no videos of Money May ever peppering opponents with lightning shoe shining and flurries. I'm not knocking Money May. I'm calling a spade a spade . And not hiding in the shade. [QUOTE=stormcentre;77551] StormCentre Response =
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20003-Fam-May-Talks-So-Much-Jive-But-The-Curse-of-38-Will-Be-Money-May-s-Downfall&p=77551&viewfull=1#post77551
StormCentre Note: Multiple real-world examples/videos of Floyd throwing fast punches were provided. (Please also note both the author and {hypocritical ??} title of the thread; "Fam May talks so much jive). [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;79255] ""But I am a boxer and an Academia"."
StormCentre Note: This is PacQueen Gold. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;77512] "Trust ME! I never make up anything as I go along. I'm solid as a rock."
StormCentre Note: This is PacQueen Gold. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;77512]
Trust ME! I never make up anything as I go along. I'm solid as a rock and have my TSS achivies, Youtube and Daily Motion backing back me up 100 percent.
StormCentre Note: This may be not be true, and is also PacQueen Gold. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;78311] C'mon, man! Nobody can run cons up in this Universe. It is the real deal. In the words of Snoop Doggy Dogg: "More real than 'Real Deal' Holyfield."
StormCentre Note: This is PacHypocriticalMermaidMania Gold. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;44182]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?13547-WTF!-Lil-Kim-is-Pregnant-And-Word-is-That-Money-May-is-The-Big-Poppa&p=44182&viewfull=1#post44182
I know every iota of the boxing game. But I won't be able to guide and slide with you yet. I will be hiding in plain sight in LA starting on March 3, 2014. Holla!
StormCentre Note: Of course you do - that's why you run from "stantiation". [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Respected TSS Forum Poster;79630] It's astonishing hypocrisy.
StormCentre Note: This is the truth. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;80229]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80229&viewfull=1#post80229
A burnt mind is as is. And dimwitted too will be as it is. Money May is having his way.
But in a week, two days and a wake up, his so-called Mayvinci Code will be broken. And he will be 47-1. Holla at the latest that favors him:
->http://rivals.ph/fight-sports/2015/04/22/32046/judge-who-made-mistake-in-previous-pacquiao-fight-to-judge-mayweather-pacquiao/. Holla! [QUOTE=Respected TSS Forum Poster;79630] You won't be able to shave after gender reassignment. Did the doctor not explain that to you? You may have a sound foundation for a malpractice suit.
Earlier you referenced 'numerous' published works of yours.
Scores of people have requested you list them, but you continue to blissfully ignore this simple and benign request.
StormCentre Note: This is a PacQueen incorrect prediction. [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;77614] Wow! That is a BIG, BIG myth about Da Manny not being dangerous while back up.
Da Manny backing up is what got Ricky Hatton KTFO when Big Floyd was Hatton's trainer. [QUOTE=stormcentre;77625]
StormCentre Response =
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20143-So-Floyd-Has-Been-Hurting-Sparring-Partners&p=77625&viewfull=1#post77625
StormCentre Note 1: Manny was not backing up when Hatton was KO'd.
StormCentre Note 2: This is PacQueen Gold.
StormCentre Note 3: This is an example of a PacQueen (and DonkeyLogic) not knowing whether his Queen is "coming", "going", or "gone". [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Radam G;79372]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?2970-Pacquiao-To-Fight-Juan-Manuel-Marquez-On-Nov-12&p=79372&viewfull=1#post79372 Pulling up a blast-from-the-past post will not INDICT me.
I'm real and will keep it that way.
Life is too short for bullspit phonies, fakers, lack of money makers and posers. How many time must I say?: "GTFOH! And CTFU!" Holla! [QUOTE=stormcentre;77508]
StormCentre Note: here is your E&HHoF award for that brilliant post;
->http://www.dfordog.co.uk/user/images/articles/empty-dog-anal-glands.jpg [/QUOTE] [QUOTE= Posted by Mr. Watermelon Seed & Black Cheery Hand Fast Speed Juice] The best way to increase hand speed is to shoot through, instead of at.
And eating watermelon seeds, egg yolk, and drinking black cherry juice a few times a week. Increase speed comes by the body being loosey goosey and not gassy and inflamed in the slightest degree.
The above causes the blood to circulate at its correct speed of going through the whole body at least 30,000 times a minute. You get max relaxation. And with that comes blast speed of extremities. Add a bit of
powers of cardamom, maca and red pepper.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20722-When-a-Fantasy-Fight-Becomes-a-Reality-Mayweather-vs-Pacquiao-in-Historical-Perspective&p=80117&viewfull=1#post80117 [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] ************************************************** ************************************************** *************** Geez, what a surprise, it seems that a fundamental PacQueening trait is forgetting to mention Pac for the same/similar issues that Floyd is targeted for, and - of course - "fibbing" . . whoops (don't want to tell the hurtful truth) . . . I mean "pretending"?
->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEqQPJJGs4&feature=youtu.be&t=3m50s Ever wondered what a "30,000 times per second . . . cardamom, maca, red pepper, watermelon seeds, egg yolk, and black cherry juice drinking . . . blood-circulation", witchdoctor looks like when he's concocting up a magic boxing potion/spell? Wonder no more. Queens, pull those panties up and get ready to meet your fearless alien leader; without his cloaking device turned on.
Finally . . . . Hey NostRADAMass, 3 things; 1) Keep up the good work and don't let being caught fibbing stop you; we need the laughs. 2) From above, where you say . . ""I never make up anything as I go along. I'm solid as a rock and have my TSS achivies, Youtube and Daily Motion backing back me up 100 percent"" I was wondering . . . since you're an expert in not just not making up stuff - but also using solid as a rock TSS achivies, Youtube and Daily Motion to back yourself up 100 percent of the time; I was wondering . . . . . . What do you reckon about my (above/below) "video and other archives that are "also" solid gold and "also" back me up 100%, so I can (too - just like you) keep it Snoop Doggy Dog Dog real and, hopefully - one day - know every iota of boxing . . . just like you? 3) If I drink "cardamom, maca, red pepper, watermelon seeds, egg yolk, and black cherry juice" all at the same time; can I visit the Sun? Not in summer, silly - in winter when it's cold? You're wicked.
Storm. :) :)


-stormcentre :

Thanks Storm. Yes, I read those posts with pleasure and a while back. Thanks you for putting them together! But i was more or less wandering how you can use IV to change the ratio of TE. I understand how IV might work by reducing the overall/absolute amount of steroids in blood. But to change the ratio... i don't know. Let me explain with a made up example. Suppose you test a fighter and he is found to have 100 particles of T and 100 particles of E per X amount of blood in his body. The TE ratio is 100:100 = 1:1. Now add to his blood 2 litters of fluid. Suppose you now take another blood test and since IV dilutes the blood you now measure 80 particles of T and 80 particles of E per X amount of blood. His TE ratio is now/still 80:80 = 1:1. It seems to me that for IV to change the ratio it should either: i) increase E by more than T, ii) decrease T by more than E. I don't know, perhaps something is added to IV that does i) or ii). For example, they could add E to the IV, or some kind of compound that destroys T. In Floyd's case it was checked by agency official and it was pure liquid and vitamins (no E or anything else). Assuming vitamins or liquid don't destroy T or generate E this can't really change the ratio at all. You could add 1000 litters, measure 1 particle of T and 1 particle of E, and still get the same 1:1 ratio. This I really don't get.
Yep, know where you're coming from, and even did beforehand. But I just wanted to give others a chance - particularly the "experts" on the Floyd IVGate matter - to respond, and to also make sure you knew the basics. Otherwise it can be messy and complicated to talk in detail about it; which is also why the subject lends itself to myths, lies, and abuse. Your question is a good one though. In a perfect and/or equally reactive blood and testosterone/epitestosterone world - such as that which forms the backdrop to your question - things/substances that are flushed through the blood (provided they don't in some way diminish the half life of either naturally occurring testosterone/epitestosterone molecule in an uneven way; remember they're different molecules - so they're different "things") may just push the magnitudes of both up equally. As you say. But, as an infamous cowboy once said - just as the Sheriff and his band of trustworthy freedom fighters corralled around, closed in, and thought they had their wanted man finally trapped - ""there is many a slip between a cup and a lip""; before the outlaw shot them and place up, and took off - once again. Epitestosterone does not enhance performance, and testosterone is the "male" hormone that provides for our manliness, strength and stamina. We all know that. With every single molecule of testosterone that's produced within our bodies - provided our endocrine system and/or pituitary gland is functioning properly - there is always another "partner" molecule (to/for testosterone) made, that's called epitestosterone. Where things get a little *freaky is not just the half lives of these molecules as they occur naturally in the body, and also when they're synthetically introduced - but also how they and their the half lives all react to each other and/or whatever is legally/illegally flushed through the blood. As is the case with several other aspects of how synthetic testosterone works; the jury is still out on how all the *above works - enough to reliably call someone a cheat and risk being sued. Synthetic testosterone is pretty much an anabolic steroid form of testosterone that's often manufactures from stuff like (but not limited to) yams, or even soy. Synthetic testosterone, from it's name, is clearly not manufactured within the human body. And, as we all know, it's often introduced into the body via injection, and other means. We all know the justified/health and performance based reasons why synthetic testosterone (and epitestosterone) may be introduced to the body. But what's not really conclusively agreed upon by all the endocrinology and other hormonal "experts" is whether synthetic testosterone acts immediately, and like natural testosterone in other ways? Sure, the main benefits and reasons that synthetic testosterone is often introduced to the body do "seem" to mimic what we assume the advantages of having an increased natural testosterone at an older age may be, and they also certainly fit the expectations of those performance/sports minded. But there still are quite a lot of other considerations and areas to examine before - those whom really know - say that synthetic testosterone acts immediately, and like natural testosterone being released from the pituitary gland? There's a few scientific journals out on how this and how tricky this subject is, and it goes a little beyond the typical acceptance/comprehension of the some sections of the forum to open their arms to cherry juice and watermelon seeds. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just as an aside, the main reason carbon isotope ratio testing (and not urine samples and/or radioimmunoassays) is deemed "top level" in detecting whether an athlete has been using synthetic testosterone, is only because it is uses (carbon isotope ratio) mass spectrometry; which is a process that can - because most people don't usually have yams and/or soy molecules within their bodies -detect whether synthetic testosterone is present. However, this method will not easily detect natural increases in testosterone production and attribute them to a origin. So, around in circles we go. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, how do all these natural, synthetic, and "rehydration" tools/things all interact with each other? Nobody really knows enough to draw a line in the sand where they want to be accountable for it in a PED context. According to some respected authors, researchers, and experts on the subject, the introduction of synthetic testosterone can - stun and/or damage the pituitary gland, and - therefore work to (actually) close down the human body's natural creation of both the naturally occurring testosterone/epitestosterone molecules. In some cases this condition can exist for years with the person whom owns it not really knowing it, provided he/she continues to artificially boost their natural testosterone production with synthetics. So, in these cases (where the pituitary gland is stunned and/or damage, and/or as directly above stated) the testosterone to epitestosterone ratio will rise up (not the magnitude of both, but only testosterone) due to the synthetic testosterone and/or steroid's introduction; such that the testosterone to epitestosterone ratio can then (easily) fly right past the natural production level of epitestosterone and also natural testosterone . . . . . . until of course the synthetic testosterone's half life starts to modulate the whole process. Remember also that synthetic testosterone's half life can also be different to that of natural/free testosterone; which I think is about 10 minutes. So, yes, perhaps if we could say that; A) All there is in a person's body is naturally occurring, and normal levels of, testosterone and epitestosterone molecules that both react equally to the introduction of rehydration/IV related fluids. B) All that is needed to be known about all the above-mentioned scientific and other reactions/discussions, is already known. Then we could say that any introduction of approved rehydration/IV related fluids should not alter the overall testosterone to epitestosterone ratio; as you say. However, we don't have that situation. So, a good question is; how do approved substances within an IV fusion (whether the fusion is approved or not) used for rehydration purposes impact all these factors? I certainly don't have the answer to that one. And, until that is known there probably will be no clear answer to your question. One thing's for sure in my mind; these answers probably will not be known whilst the PED issue remains clouded in darkness and misinformation, and whilst; A) The PED matter is both reported on erroneously/subjectively by guys like Hauser. B) Hauser is cheered on by those whom simply accept what they are told, don't ask excellent questions such as yours, and share a common interest with Hauser's obvious agenda. Good post. :)