Boxing Clearly Not Dead, as The #GolovkinLemieux Presser Mood Is Lively

Nah, boxing isn’t dead, I thought to myself, as I watched the principals who’ll clash Oct. 17 at Madison Square Garden, in the capital of the world, New York City, have their say at a Tuesday presser.

Diminished from hey-days, sure, but this is an age of change and transition and I can name a thousand things and entities that are more nichified now, aren’t such a mainstream mass-appeal draw. But dead, DOA, no way, not with the extreme and pleasing reaction, if you are promoter K2 and Golden Boy, to the entry into the pay-per-view realm for Gennady Golovkin, who’ll get his chin tested by David “Captain Caveman” Lemiueux, a fellow middleweight with a selfsame penchant for bomb-throwing.

More than 15,000 seats sold less than a week after tix went on sale, a sellout a certainty, all for one fella who was known only to the hardcore four years ago and another who shrugged off two losses, dedicated himself to the craft for maybe the first time….yeah, no DOA tag for this sport.

OK, could the sport be in a better place? Sure; the PPV model puts excess pressure upon Joe Q. Fan to carry the financial load to be a rooter. The cost to see this scrap will be $49.95, which is not as high as it could be, I found myself thinking when the price was put out there. I think I was somewhat accepting of the construct because I feel like these guys get it, that they comprehend that there’s no reason not to stack the card, put on four solid on-paper fights. After all, in a restaurant, does the A grade steakhouse throw stale rolls and iceberg lettuce with Wishbone dressing at you, and finish off with a popsicle, because they know their t-bone is to die for?That is a rehorical question…

I was impressed by the mood in the room, and the interplay between the teams. Tom Loeffler of K2, who should win promoter of the year from the BWAA next year, presided, and there was no sniping, veiled or outward, as Golovkin, as always genial and humble, and Lemieux, sporting a hipster wide-Mohawk, both promised a good bang for the buck for the fans. “There will be blood,” said Lemiuex, age 26, who in the recent past has promised thunder and lightning and mayhem, but this time dialed it back, comprehending that Triple G is a different animal than the Rosados and N’Dams he’s handled. The mood was light and upbeat, and the two bombers even broke into grins during the staredown. They both know this one has lit a fire under fans, especially since there is hope in the air that the winner will meet the winner of the Nov. 21 Miguel Cotto vs. Canelo Alvarez fight.

Some tidbits:

Golovkin told me this one could easily go the distance, though other fight game pundits are thinking it could be a Hagler-Hearns sort of eruption.

Both men aren’t sure who who will win Cotto-Canelo…but Lemieux is sure that fight should be at 160, not a catchweight, of 155 or less.

Golovkin trainer Abel Sanchez said he thinks highly of Lemieux’ cajones, and power, but believes Curtis Stevens has better pop that Lemieux, who he thinks has more thudding than snappish pop.

Loeffler said Team Golovkin wanted a reasonable price point, to maximize buys, and also a solid undercard, to give value.

Lemieux promoter Camille Estephan, of Eye of the Tiger, said that come Oct. 18, there will be countless copycats sporting Lemieux hair-dos, after his kid scores the upset.

Lemieux admitted that he did say to himself, “already?”, when offered this bout…but because he has a warrior heart, he thought about it and said yes, I want the opportunity to show I’m the better man.

Lemieux told us that he’s pinching himself, getting here. He smoked cigarettes at age 9..and now to be a world class athlete headlining at MSG. Goosebumps…

Golovkin still didn’t talk trash. He doesn’t admit to thinking maybe he will lose, but he doesn’t talk up his prospects for victory, and he said he’s looking forward to giving fans entertainment: it will be “amazing history” on Oct. 17, he said.

All told, the vibe was sort of anti-Mayweather for me. Bragging and posturing and veiled and stated barbs weren’t thrown about. The humility and appreciation for the place of the stage was real, not staged, and a trillion sponsors weren’t thanked, so boredom was minimized.

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COMMENTS

-brownsugar :

Give Me the veiled threats and cutting barbs..... but I'll also take dignified and restrained behavior when the fighters enter the ring with this much fire power. However I think GGG will ice Lemieux in 8 rounds or less. Lemieux gets hit too easily and GGG won't be throwing love taps like NDam, within four rounds or less Lemieux will be looking for open pastures and a safe place to rest before either waving the white flag or going out on his shield. The gulf between the boxing ability of these two fighters is as wide as a chasm between two continents. GGG has faced far better punchers and much better boxers. Will be fun while it lasts.


-deepwater2 :

I am expecting a big drama show.It should be a classic. I am going all out with this one. Ringside tickets for me and my wife. My tux just went to the dry cleaners. My wife is already picking out an evening dress. A reservation has been made at Keen's steakhouse, just down the block from MSG, before the fight. I just have to decide on where to go after the fight but I like to see where the night takes us. Probably across the street to one of the hotel bars where all the boxing people swap stories and bring back good memories. Anyway this fight is very good for boxing.


-King Beef :

[QUOTE=brownsugar;86709]Give Me the veiled threats and cutting barbs..... but I'll also take dignified and restrained behavior when the fighters enter the ring with this much fire power. However I think GGG will ice Lemieux in 8 rounds or less. Lemieux gets hit too easily and GGG won't be throwing love taps like NDam, within four rounds or less Lemieux will be looking for open pastures and a safe place to rest before either waving the white flag or going out on his shield. The gulf between the boxing ability of these two fighters is as wide as a chasm between two continents. GGG has faced far better punchers and much better boxers. Will be fun while it lasts.[/QUOTE Think you are probably right B-Sug; I think it will be fireworks for as long as it lasts. I think GGG's skill level will be too much for Lemieux.


-Radam G :

Wow! And Money May refuses to fight "da giant" 3g, as Pops Joy May imagines him to be. Holla!


-brownsugar :

[QUOTE=brownsugar;86709]Give Me the veiled threats and cutting barbs..... but I'll also take dignified and restrained behavior when the fighters enter the ring with this much fire power. However I think GGG will ice Lemieux in 8 rounds or less. Lemieux gets hit too easily and GGG won't be throwing love taps like NDam, within four rounds or less Lemieux will be looking for open pastures and a safe place to rest before either waving the white flag or going out on his shield. The gulf between the boxing ability of these two fighters is as wide as a chasm between two continents. GGG has faced far better punchers and much better boxers. Will be fun while it lasts.[/QUOTE Think you are probably right B-Sug; I think it will be fireworks for as long as it lasts. I think GGG's skill level will be too much for Lemieux.
I just don't see how Lemieux can deal with the beasty bomber after Golovkin gets him dialed in, .....GGG has already beaten this type of fighter before, I'll probably leave my cable on long enough to buy the fight since I'm getting Mayweather vs Berto in September... I love watching me some GGG in predator mode. At. Least Lemieux has embraced the fact that.... "boxing ain't easy" ....and has stepped up to earn his wages the honest way...no shame on Lemieux any way it goes down....whether the fight is over fast or if it lasts to the bitter end..... It will be glorious!


-stormcentre :

Wow! And Money May refuses to fight "da giant" 3g, as Pops Joy May imagines him to be. Holla!
Yawn. Please something original. Even if it's about the Salt Water Jesus and his PED use and/or served or received writs. Still love you though for keeping it SDD real. :)


-stormcentre :

I am expecting a big drama show.It should be a classic. I am going all out with this one. Ringside tickets for me and my wife. My tux just went to the dry cleaners. My wife is already picking out an evening dress. A reservation has been made at Keen's steakhouse, just down the block from MSG, before the fight. I just have to decide on where to go after the fight but I like to see where the night takes us. Probably across the street to one of the hotel bars where all the boxing people swap stories and bring back good memories. Anyway this fight is very good for boxing.
Wow, the tuxedo is out. Wicked. This will be a good fight. I just hope Lemieux walks into that ring with the same attitude that has delivered all his words and previous comments. I strongly doubt it. Oscar will use this fight and Lemieux (and of course Canelo V Cotto) to gauge whether he should stage a boycott of any 3G V Canelo fight. :)


-stormcentre :

I just don't see how Lemieux can deal with the beasty bomber after Golovkin gets him dialed in, .....GGG has already beaten this type of fighter before, I'll probably leave my cable on long enough to buy the fight since I'm getting Mayweather vs Berto in September... I love watching me some GGG in predator mode. At. Least Lemieux has embraced the fact that.... "boxing ain't easy" ....and has stepped up to earn his wages the honest way...no shame on Lemieux any way it goes down....whether the fight is over fast or if it lasts to the bitter end..... It will be glorious!

""I just don't see how Lemieux can deal with the beasty bomber after Golovkin gets him dialed in"" You're right, Lemieux can't really deal with the thunderbolt bomber Golovkin. Provided 3G doesn't exhibit too many of his defensive liabilities whilst Lemieux is fresh and his punch resistance is fully charged up. Lemieux will most likely be another averagely paid 3G opponent - which is also one (other) reason how/why 3G provides the real or imagined effect of cherry picking opponents that are really far less experienced and skilled than him - that finds out the hard way that there is a bit more to boxing than being strong and a determined and willing attacker. This guy (Lemieux) and his style is tailor made for Golovkin, particularly at this stage of his career and considering what fights might just be around the corner for 3G. Personally, I don't see too much more potential in Lemieux than, say, a prime; Proksa, Geale or Stevens - all of whom 3G has previously destroyed. If Lemieux goes further than Murray did (and does it without kissing the canvass) not only will it will be amazing - but he will also be one very, very, sore Canadian boy the following day. Still, big up to Lemieux for stepping up. :) :)


-mortcola :

Great fight - may be a decisive difference in class, as Lemieux may just be that leaky-defense bomber that gets outclassed just when you start hearing about Rocky stories and puncher?s chance and all that. But, despite being a GGG fan, I have a small agenda I?ve mentioned here before: Watching to see if the 90000 or so amateur and professional rounds he?s gone, combined with his penchant for getting hit to ?give great drama show?, or because he too either lacks or eschews evasive skills, result in a few shocking knockdowns or uh-oh knee-wiggles, just as his arc hits zenith in terms of fame and comparisons to the greats.I don?t want it to happen, I like the kid and he might turn out to be all that, damn he puts on a great show, but he?s got more wear on that tread than almost anyone we?ve seen in recent years at a comparable point in his pro career. thoughts?


-SouthPawFlo :

I think this is more of a HBO fight than PPV.... David Lemieux isn't skilled enuff to really compete... He's a live Dog but he is clearly not the talent Golovkin is...


-riverside :

I am expecting a big drama show.It should be a classic. I am going all out with this one. Ringside tickets for me and my wife. My tux just went to the dry cleaners. My wife is already picking out an evening dress. A reservation has been made at Keen's steakhouse, just down the block from MSG, before the fight. I just have to decide on where to go after the fight but I like to see where the night takes us. Probably across the street to one of the hotel bars where all the boxing people swap stories and bring back good memories. Anyway this fight is very good for boxing.
Nice enjoy the fight! i don't see anybody giving Lemieux any chance to win, but he does have a early puncher chance, I sure wouldn't bet against GGG!!. I predict a very short fight ending inside of three, would not that be a stunner is Lemieux clip him early. Have Fun!!


-stormcentre :

Great fight - may be a decisive difference in class, as Lemieux may just be that leaky-defense bomber that gets outclassed just when you start hearing about Rocky stories and puncher’s chance and all that. But, despite being a GGG fan, I have a small agenda I’ve mentioned here before: Watching to see if the 90000 or so amateur and professional rounds he’s gone, combined with his penchant for getting hit to “give great drama show”, or because he too either lacks or eschews evasive skills, result in a few shocking knockdowns or uh-oh knee-wiggles, just as his arc hits zenith in terms of fame and comparisons to the greats.I don’t want it to happen, I like the kid and he might turn out to be all that, damn he puts on a great show, but he’s got more wear on that tread than almost anyone we’ve seen in recent years at a comparable point in his pro career. thoughts?
Hey MC, how's things? Good I hope. Good post, and I agree. 3G is the goods in many ways, but sooner or later - especially if he either, steps up the competition or keeps fighting guys that can bang and are willing to take a chance (like David Lemieux) - those defensive liabilities are going to come home to roost. Aside from getting caught by Lemieux early and when he is fresh and undamaged; 3G is probably too experienced and smart . . footwork, ring positioning, and also punch placement and strength-wise to get terminally (only in the sense of losing the fight) caught out by Lemieux though. And, because Lemieux appears as if he has simply forgotten and/or discarded any concept of defence, that will probably get him on the receiving end of Gennady's harder punches much earlier than otherwise might be the case. Good for us spectators. But, as you state and infer, when/if 3G starts to really step it up - particularly with guys like Ward and the like - 3G's wear and tear may start to reveal itself, and then things may change and we may just see someone that can't keep total control of himself and his opponent. However, whilst 3G continues to fight the same calibre of opponent as some of his previous opponents, the chances are that we will probably not see the true depth of some of these cracks in 3G's (brutally efficient) arsenal. Until then though, Lemieux V Golovkin should be a real blast. There will be a few spiteful and bad intentioned punches thrown in this one. I doubt Lemieux see's the final round, but hopefully - before that - he catches 3G with something powerful so a real fight breaks out. :)


-stormcentre :

Great fight - may be a decisive difference in class, as Lemieux may just be that leaky-defense bomber that gets outclassed just when you start hearing about Rocky stories and puncher’s chance and all that. But, despite being a GGG fan, I have a small agenda I’ve mentioned here before: Watching to see if the 90000 or so amateur and professional rounds he’s gone, combined with his penchant for getting hit to “give great drama show”, or because he too either lacks or eschews evasive skills, result in a few shocking knockdowns or uh-oh knee-wiggles, just as his arc hits zenith in terms of fame and comparisons to the greats.I don’t want it to happen, I like the kid and he might turn out to be all that, damn he puts on a great show, but he’s got more wear on that tread than almost anyone we’ve seen in recent years at a comparable point in his pro career. thoughts?
Hey MC, how's things? Good I hope. Good post, and I agree. 3G is the goods in many ways, but sooner or later - especially if he either, steps up the competition or keeps fighting guys that can bang and are willing to take a chance (like David Lemieux) - those defensive liabilities are going to come home to roost. Aside from getting caught by Lemieux early and when he is fresh and undamaged; 3G is probably too experienced and smart . . footwork, ring positioning, and also punch placement and strength-wise to get terminally (only in the sense of losing the fight) caught out by Lemieux though. And, because Lemieux appears as if he has simply forgotten and/or discarded any concept of defence, that will probably get him on the receiving end of Gennady's harder punches much earlier than otherwise might be the case. Good for us spectators. But, as you state and infer, when/if 3G starts to really step it up - particularly with guys like Ward and the like - 3G's wear and tear may start to reveal itself, and then things may change and we may just see someone that can't keep total control of himself and his opponent. However, whilst 3G continues to fight the same calibre of opponent as some of his previous opponents, the chances are that we will probably not see the true depth of some of these cracks in 3G's (brutally efficient) arsenal. Until then though, Lemieux V Golovkin should be a real blast. There will be a few spiteful and bad intentioned punches thrown in this one. I doubt Lemieux see's the final round, but hopefully - before that - he catches 3G with something powerful so a real fight breaks out. :)


-mortcola :

Hey Storm - Thanks for the good words. Good analysis too. If Lemieux can stand up, he will make it very interesting. I’m good but frustrated. Got in decent shape after a month’s layoff from a sinus infection, get in four good rounds with a good pro - Anthony Karperis, my trainer, FAST mo-fo, and the first right to the ribs I throw is wide and turns my rotator cuff to spaghetti. Waiting to see if its the whole cuff or one of the lead-in muscles, but I gotta get it operated on soon. This old man was looking pretty good, then screamed like a ------ when I felt it go. Wanna hear a funny? Ron Katz, former Top Rank matchmaker, sees me in the ring, says some nice things about my snap and headwork, then when he finds out I’m 50+ and a doctor of sorts (on a bad day, I look 35) he decides I’m the next Hackie Reitman, put the doc on cards and donate lots of the money to Charity. Calls me Viper for my snappy (short, pudgy-armed, but doing my best to imitate Larry Holmes) jab. Me and Ryan Kelly (Wayne’s son, TALENTED southpaw heavy) talk about how we both keep quitting when we start looking good, and how maybe if we make a training pact, we both stick to the training and take it as far as it’ll go. Viper. If you knew me, you’d get the joke. But It was a fun story to be a part of. Now I need to find a surgeon who’ll give me a young man’s shoulder so I can keep these heavy hands. More details than you asked for. Can’t wait for this fight.


-mortcola :







Hey Storm - Thanks for the good words. Good analysis too. If Lemieux can stand up, he will make it very interesting. I?m good but frustrated. Got in decent shape after a month?s layoff from a sinus infection, get in four good rounds with a good pro - Anthony Karperis, my trainer, FAST mo-fo, and the first right to the ribs I throw is wide and turns my rotator cuff to spaghetti. Waiting to see if its the whole cuff or one of the lead-in muscles, but I gotta get it operated on soon. This old man was looking pretty good, then screamed like a ------ when I felt it go. Wanna hear a funny? Ron Katz, former Top Rank matchmaker, sees me in the ring, says some nice things about my snap and headwork, then when he finds out I?m 50+ and a doctor of sorts (on a bad day, I look 35) he decides I?m the next Hackie Reitman, put the doc on cards and donate lots of the money to Charity. Calls me Viper for my snappy (short, pudgy-armed, but doing my best to imitate Larry Holmes) jab. Me and Ryan Kelly (Wayne?s son, TALENTED southpaw heavy) talk about how we both keep quitting when we start looking good, and how maybe if we make a training pact, we both stick to the training and take it as far as it?ll go. Viper. If you knew me, you?d get the joke. But It was a fun story to be a part of. Now I need to find a surgeon who?ll give me a young man?s shoulder so I can keep these heavy hands. More details than you asked for. Can?t wait for this fight.


-stormcentre :







Hey Storm - Thanks for the good words. Good analysis too. If Lemieux can stand up, he will make it very interesting. I’m good but frustrated. Got in decent shape after a month’s layoff from a sinus infection, get in four good rounds with a good pro - Anthony Karperis, my trainer, FAST mo-fo, and the first right to the ribs I throw is wide and turns my rotator cuff to spaghetti. Waiting to see if its the whole cuff or one of the lead-in muscles, but I gotta get it operated on soon. This old man was looking pretty good, then screamed like a ------ when I felt it go. Wanna hear a funny? Ron Katz, former Top Rank matchmaker, sees me in the ring, says some nice things about my snap and headwork, then when he finds out I’m 50+ and a doctor of sorts (on a bad day, I look 35) he decides I’m the next Hackie Reitman, put the doc on cards and donate lots of the money to Charity. Calls me Viper for my snappy (short, pudgy-armed, but doing my best to imitate Larry Holmes) jab. Me and Ryan Kelly (Wayne’s son, TALENTED southpaw heavy) talk about how we both keep quitting when we start looking good, and how maybe if we make a training pact, we both stick to the training and take it as far as it’ll go. Viper. If you knew me, you’d get the joke. But It was a fun story to be a part of. Now I need to find a surgeon who’ll give me a young man’s shoulder so I can keep these heavy hands. More details than you asked for. Can’t wait for this fight.
Good funny post. I do get it. Sorry to hear about the rotator cuff injury man . . . I have had one before and they can be really tough to get over - especially if you like to train and not take a break. I was going to say; maybe you should have exited the ring, after your 4 rounds with Anthony, in such a way, with your headgear remaining on (assuming you were wearing it), so Ron couldn't guess your age. But then, if you usually look 35 anyway it would not have mattered. Maybe it's good Ron found out your age, as otherwise - assuming you would not like this, but then from what you've written and whom your getting work with I may very well have that wrong - Ron may have just set you up with and/or thrown you in with the big and (really) young/hungry dawgs. Nothing wrong with emulating Holmes' jab - the dude used it brilliantly and was a mean mofo. Man I know what you mean when you say; ""me and Ryan Kelly [always] talk about how we both keep quitting when we start looking good"." This year I have had one calf, back, or other injury after another, and if it has not been that then there has been some really bad flus and viruses thrown in for good measure. All up it's stopped me from getting back to my usual base level of being able to do 10 reasonably brisk or hard rounds. And that not only makes me feel old - but it also means the younger guys in the gym catch me more than I like, and we can't have that can we? Cool family photos, and thanks for that. Look after that shoulder man. Finally, I really think that 3G will be looking to make a big statement with Lemieux, particularly since Lemieux willingly plays the role of a nice and (justifiably) tough guy that's not scared. Cheers,
Storm. :) :)


-stormcentre :







Hey Storm - Thanks for the good words. Good analysis too. If Lemieux can stand up, he will make it very interesting. I’m good but frustrated. Got in decent shape after a month’s layoff from a sinus infection, get in four good rounds with a good pro - Anthony Karperis, my trainer, FAST mo-fo, and the first right to the ribs I throw is wide and turns my rotator cuff to spaghetti. Waiting to see if its the whole cuff or one of the lead-in muscles, but I gotta get it operated on soon. This old man was looking pretty good, then screamed like a ------ when I felt it go. Wanna hear a funny? Ron Katz, former Top Rank matchmaker, sees me in the ring, says some nice things about my snap and headwork, then when he finds out I’m 50+ and a doctor of sorts (on a bad day, I look 35) he decides I’m the next Hackie Reitman, put the doc on cards and donate lots of the money to Charity. Calls me Viper for my snappy (short, pudgy-armed, but doing my best to imitate Larry Holmes) jab. Me and Ryan Kelly (Wayne’s son, TALENTED southpaw heavy) talk about how we both keep quitting when we start looking good, and how maybe if we make a training pact, we both stick to the training and take it as far as it’ll go. Viper. If you knew me, you’d get the joke. But It was a fun story to be a part of. Now I need to find a surgeon who’ll give me a young man’s shoulder so I can keep these heavy hands. More details than you asked for. Can’t wait for this fight.
Good funny post. I do get it. Sorry to hear about the rotator cuff injury man . . . I have had one before and they can be really tough to get over - especially if you like to train and not take a break. I was going to say; maybe you should have exited the ring, after your 4 rounds with Anthony, in such a way, with your headgear remaining on (assuming you were wearing it), so Ron couldn't guess your age. But then, if you usually look 35 anyway it would not have mattered. Maybe it's good Ron found out your age, as otherwise - assuming you would not like this, but then from what you've written and whom your getting work with I may very well have that wrong - Ron may have just set you up with and/or thrown you in with the big and (really) young/hungry dawgs. Nothing wrong with emulating Holmes' jab - the dude used it brilliantly and was a mean mofo. Man I know what you mean when you say; ""me and Ryan Kelly [always] talk about how we both keep quitting when we start looking good"." This year I have had one calf, back, or other injury after another, and if it has not been that then there has been some really bad flus and viruses thrown in for good measure. All up it's stopped me from getting back to my usual base level of being able to do 10 reasonably brisk or hard rounds. And that not only makes me feel old - but it also means the younger guys in the gym catch me more than I like, and we can't have that can we? Cool family photos, and thanks for that. Look after that shoulder man. Finally, I really think that 3G will be looking to make a big statement with Lemieux, particularly since Lemieux willingly plays the role of a nice and (justifiably) tough guy that's not scared. Cheers,
Storm. :) :)


-Skibbz :

Great fight - may be a decisive difference in class, as Lemieux may just be that leaky-defense bomber that gets outclassed just when you start hearing about Rocky stories and puncher’s chance and all that. But, despite being a GGG fan, I have a small agenda I’ve mentioned here before: Watching to see if the 90000 or so amateur and professional rounds he’s gone, combined with his penchant for getting hit to “give great drama show”, or because he too either lacks or eschews evasive skills, result in a few shocking knockdowns or uh-oh knee-wiggles, just as his arc hits zenith in terms of fame and comparisons to the greats.I don’t want it to happen, I like the kid and he might turn out to be all that, damn he puts on a great show, but he’s got more wear on that tread than almost anyone we’ve seen in recent years at a comparable point in his pro career. thoughts?
Always great to see a cool head. I do like GGG, and I think he's a great fighter to watch. Reminds me a mix between Toney and JCC. But as you mentioned what he lacks is the defence of either fighter, or maybe he eschews it as you mentioned, butoy is Golovkin easy to find - the only thing that stops many opponents from giving him licks is the firepower he has that keeps their own guns in their holsters which is a shame to see. Then again the match makers are the ones who should be sharing in the plaudits in this case. Golovkin had his tougher fights in the build up of his career against fighters from across the globe. Those who came in prepared made fights extremely competitive – those who did not did not. His match makers have taken the foot off the accelarator and were cruising him in third gear with fights – with no disrespect to the following fighters - against Murray, Rubio, Geale, WM Jr. as well as fighting 154ers brought up to the 160 weight. Ouma didn't do bad against GGG, he arguably won a lot of the rounds and showed a clear blueprint to fight GGG, holding ground and firing straight punches to the stationairy brainbox of Golovkin – fighting Golovkin on the inside is also possible so long as your punch output is up there with Golovkin’s, who’s output is clearly above average for the division. Rosado junior middleweight coming up with 5 losses on his record prior went a solid distance and didn't seem too bothered from the punches up until the round the towel was thrown in - he found some good punches that landed well against GGG and made him to a little jig as well as producing welts under his eyes. He did many of the things mentioned above, found good right hands and often landed uppercuts which lashed Golovkin’s head backwards. Even in his last fight Golovkin was easy to hit. Then we look at pillow punching Murray and yes Murray was mauled about until the stoppage but a harder hitter in his shoes may have turned the fight at several points. Crucially, yes Golovkin does hit hard but when he’s against the cream of the division who are in real fighting shape and not afraid to throw some punches back then we will see Golovkin in more competitive fights as he was with Ouma. When you begin to cower then you are surrending yourself to the large tidal waves inevitably coming your way and you will become washed up. But to every bull is a matador and I feel that’s where Golovkin’s loss(es) will come. I mentioned a while ago that I thought Lara would have a good chance. I think Canelo does it – VIVA EL REY – but Lemiuex is a long shot. I think if you look at the fighters that beat Toney and beat JCC, then you might find the type of fighters who could credibly beat GGG. Whilst I do believe David will land and he will land eye catching combinations – I just don’t believe he has the crippling power to match Golovkin. I must say he didn’t look in the greatest of shape at the presser and I hope he doesn’t have to lose enough before the training begins in earnest because I do believe he has a chance to take this the distance. As mentioned by several already in the thread he is easy to hit, but I feel he has the heart to continue, just needs the fitness to match. He can land the right punches but Golovkin will be there catching him either mid or at the end of his combination. Just hope he keeps his chin well tucked and a stiff jab to meet Golovkin in the middle of the ring. Edit: shame to hear about your rotator cuff, had my left shoulder damaged in the same way and was out for a while. Speedy recovery.


-brownsugar :

Golovkin doesnt get hit like he did against Ouma anymore. In that fight GGG didnt seem to care about the incoming. It was like he was trying to prove some machoistic point by walking straight through Ouma's punches, but it got lost in the translation and GGG simply looked more sloppy than tough. Golovkin knows how to keep from taking too much punishment. His underrated defense will be in full effect. However when he does fight defensively his offence takes a bit longer to warm up. I think we'll really see GGG "turn-up" by round four. Unless Lemieux unwisely rattles the dragons cage by dispensing some unsavory trash talk. If thats the case, Lemieux will lose his " good boy " status early on and get burnt by a fireball the moment he enters the ring.


-Froggy :

Not too many people picking Lemieux here [nobody] I am biased since he is a fellow Canadian, and while I agree GGG should win, I think Lemieux is being underated here, he is more than just a live dog !What does everybody here think the odds should be ? I would like to bet with some of you on this one, if it was feasible, but it's not, so everyone enjoy a good fight !


-Art :

Thankfully for us and we have endured some rough times over these past ten years. But one era ends and another begins and this new one is going to be great!!!


-stormcentre :

Believe it or not Froggy I was actually thinking of you when I read this article and its posts, because - as you have stated - you're from Canada, as is Lemieux. In response to your post/question, I agree that Lemieux is not a dead dog (to use the same or a similar parlance as yourself) but his chances are, in my opinion (and I love Canada as much as the USA), not too much better than - as they say - a puncher's chance. Lemieux is a good fighter/boxer and he is tough and durable, there's no doubt abut that. And stating that 3G will probably walk through him I guess is - in some ways - not really as negative a comment as it might otherwise be due to the fact that 3G has the kind of experience and style probably perplexes not only some top level and elite guys, but also most really good "B" level guys - guys like David Lemieux. There's no shame in that, as not everyone has 300 or 400 amateur fights (with at least 100 of them on the international stage) before they turn pro - as Gennady Golovkin has. And not everyone gets completely familiarised with sparring (and possibly fighting) professional fighters as they're an amateur - as Gennady Golovkin has. So, these things - particularly if 3G handlers pick/choose their opponents well - mean that 3G can reliably be matched against guys (even those whom are considered world class professional fighters, or just below that level) that (still) simply don't have the experience or skills to match him. Provided 3G stays match practice fit. I agree that Lemieux did a good job against Rosado, whom is a common opponent they share. But Rosado also received a horrible beating from 3G too. So bad that apparently one of Rosado's family members - whom was close by ringside at the 3G V Rosado fight - called out ""he's going to kill him unless the fight is stopped"". Rosado is tough and durable, and that (depending on your view) either serves him well - or doesn't. But, getting back to Lemieux, his exposure with opponents that both, have the experience that 3G has and can confidently fight the way Gennady does for at least 8 rounds (3G starts to look a bit ragged after 8, but most guys are also pretty bashed by then too), is pretty minimal. At the end of the day - and I am not being derogatory to David here - Lemieux's best attributes going into his fight with Gennady Golovkin could probably be described as; "power", determination, possibly stamina (not sure if Lemieux has ever fought 12 hard rounds against a guy that can really wack him), possibly fearlessness (we shall see after he gets hit), and punch resistance. Gennady Golovkin has all those too, plus a few things extra. I don't know if there are any truly elite level (footwork, defence, timing, counterpunching . .etc) skills that Lemieux has to even up the ledger. And if you think he has some please let me know because there is every chance I have accidentally overlooked something here and are not as familiar with Lemieux as you may be. But, truly elite level skills are precisely what you (David will) really need against a guy like 3G that has - on many occasions - already fought guys (that are reasonably) like Lemieux before in the amateurs and pros. Which is why when/if 3G gets hit by Lemieux, he will probably (unless it happens when David is really fresh and 3G is behaving really silly or defensively liable) remain more composed - than when Lemieux starts to taste the "power" of Golovkin. I'm just not sure Lemieux (or any Junior/Middleweight) has ever been hit by a guy that hits as hard and often with the supinated hook and cross, as 3G does. Lemieux did have a good win over Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam though. But then - and I think this is where the long Vegas and other odds come from - it's hard not to imagine 3G knocking N'Dam out of they fought. That said, I do think Lemieux (if it's the same one that beat Rosado and not the one that lost to Rubio) would probably beat Willie Monroe Jr. too, as 3G did. Still, I think David will be lucky to see round 12, especially without at least touching the canvass a few times. Currently most of the website betting agencies have Lemieux at 7 or 8 to 1 odds. So, to answer your question about odds - and notwithstanding my above comments about any elite level skills Lemieux possesses that I may have overlooked and/or you may suggest - I think the best (or most favourable to him) line I would run for Lemieux would be no better than 6 to 1. Particularly whilst 3G is training in Big Bear's high altitude, tearing up sparring partners that are (at least) of equal toughness to Lemieux, and is looking down the barrel of a much coveted fight with Cotto or Canelo that could potentially see 3G take over as the next truly marquee level PPV fighter of this generation. :) :)


-SuperLight :

Storm, that's a nice analysis as usual. I like Lemiuex but tend to agree with you lot that Golovkin will have him. Experience goes a long way. What we consider the king of martial arts is far from dead. I think a fight like this will draw quite a few casual boxing and general sport fans, given that it's between two pretty good-looking guys who are more Mexican than Cuban. Give me yer Cuban most days of the week, but that's what fans tend to dig.


-stormcentre :

Storm, that's a nice analysis as usual. I like Lemiuex but tend to agree with you lot that Golovkin will have him. Experience goes a long way. What we consider the king of martial arts is far from dead. I think a fight like this will draw quite a few casual boxing and general sport fans, given that it's between two pretty good-looking guys who are more Mexican than Cuban. Give me yer Cuban most days of the week, but that's what fans tend to dig.
Thanks for the positive feedback SL, I'm glad you appreciate my efforts. How's things going? I like Lemieux too, boxing needs more guys like him and he is a solid competitor. Aside from what I have written above; A) I am also just a little suspicious of what Golden Boy are strategically (at a personal business level that doesn't consider David) doing. As both signing up and then immediately feeding Lemieux to Golovkin - before a possible Canelo V Gennady fight - could be interpreted many ways. It could be a good thing too, and I don't wan't to sound to negative (real?) about it, but it's hard for me to believe that some part of signing Lemieux and then getting him to instantly fight Golovkin doesn't have something to do with Oscar either testing the waters or protecting his cash cow; Saul Alvarez. B) If we just look at left hands, Golovkin has a far better hook to the body, hook to the head, and also jab; than Lemieux - these are the bread and butter for both guys usual game-plans, and also their right hands. And - even though Golovkin can be a little inaccurate and (almost always a bit) clumsy with his delivery of his (heavily {overly?} relied on) supinated hooks (which is why you need to be able to *in-fight 3G, and also why he likes to get his opponents on the ropes) - looking at Lemiuex's last few fights he can, at times, also be very ragged and/or inaccurate with his punches - as well as not having his distance and proprioception working as good as it (and 3G) can be. Also, to beat - or run with - 3G you have to be able to meet him *centre ring and hold your own there. I previously described the reasons for this in the lead up to the 3G V Murray fight; so no need to go into them here again other than to say on the ropes is usually where 3G's big-time "power" with supinated hooks really comes into play. Previously there was a few that disagreed with me on this, but I am glad they have now came around; even though I am happy to concede the point if I am later proven wrong. Put simply, you don't wan't to be there on the ropes and facing 3G unless you really think you can hang with him in a shootout, punch for punch. Because if there's one thing 3G does brilliantly . . it's deliver big-time "power" via the use of supinated punches. Even though I don't really know David's complete fight history that well, I am just not sure (I'm not politely saying David can't do this; as I am just really not sure) Lemieux can; meet 3G centre ring, take and give shots there, sustain a decent in-fight and exchange with him, and in general hold his own there . . . and by doing so stay off the ropes; where I am certain he can't hang with 3G for too long. As YouTube videos of 3G sparring Chavez (and some others) testify to; Golovkin is no slouch when it comes to in-fighting either. So, that's the dilemma 3G's experience and unusual, but pressure laden and powerful style brings; it's a hard nut to crack for any middleweight that doesn't have really good all round and elite skills, and top level punch resistance. But if Lemieux can successfully fight in close and/or at centre ring with 3G - and I hope (for both his and our sakes) he can - he will have a better chance of lasting 12 and/or beating 3G. Aside from some big stones and marquee level composure under pressure; uppercuts, short right hands, and hooks off those punches (not leading) will be a good start and way to undo 3G's forward advance, if in fighting with him whilst off the ropes. If David can't hang on the inside but he still tries, he will probably get busted up like Curtis Stevens. Personally, I'd like to see Lemieux upset the favourite (3G) and win, but I don't think he will do it, and I also don't think the oddsmakers have it too wrong. 3G just brings too much firepower, experience, and possibly too much weight also, to the table. An often overlooked fact is that Gennady could easily - should he chose to - walk into the ring at around 165 on fight night, and if that happens it will not make his punching "force" any less. :) I agree with your closing sentiments; boxing is far from dead. And Lemieux V Golovkin looks to be, on paper at least, a brilliant fight. I'd actually like to see Lemieux (preferably before he takes a loss from 3G) or even 3G himself fight Lara, as that would tell us where all 3 guys really are. Still, with this fight and in a few weeks we will find out a lot about David Lemieux, and maybe some more about Gennady Golovkin. Can't wait. :) :)


-Skibbz :

It could be a good thing too, and I don't wan't to sound to negative (real?) about it, but it's hard for me to believe that some part of signing Lemieux and then getting him to instantly fight Golovkin doesn't have something to do with Oscar either testing the waters or protecting his cash cow; Saul Alvarez.
I would agree on this - he is a crowd pleaser and will help satisfy GB's bottom line over the few years, and as you mention protects the gold for the time being. THAT SAID. Saul doesn't need protection, as he says, he was born ready. I think he's got the questions for Golovkin that might give him more trouble answering than he's had so far. In my previous post I mentioned that I think Canelo beats Golovkin and I explain why; As I mentioned, you either have to be the matador, and prance and dance your way around GGG hitting him with long levers or meet fire with fire and go for a potentially career shortening, fight of the year winning war. Of the former group, not too many of the current crop at 160 can do that, but at 154/168 I believe there are fighters who can. Of the latter I believe there are even less who have the requisites, but Canelo is one. Canelo is a better defensive fighter than he is given credit for, and I would argue better at not getting hit then Golovkin who invites punches in as per his tactics. At the risk of taking one or two punches Golovkin prepares his body for the motion and timing of a full force hook to the temple that explodes at a moment when some fighters can become complacent amidst their combination. Adding that the hooks are thrown wide from unorthodox angles, it can have disasterous effects. He does something Mayweather, Toney and JCC often did, getting in position to throw a right hand and holding it for a split second longer than almost ALL fighters are accustomed – curiosity kills the cat and the guard is lowered to see “What’s the hold up Gennady I thought I had a right hand coming m-“ BOOM. Flush in the face. But Canelo is just as good at timing his opponents in my opinion, just as fast if not faster than Gennady and carries the punch in his fists that will make it a real fight. Golovkin has been seen to be vulnerable to uppercuts (not denying he has an incredible uppercut himself) and that is a punch Canelo can throw all too well. He throws sublime combinations that leave the recipient pulverized, he has a good jab and knows how to set up his punches but crucially he is as good at countering and fighting on the inside as he is fighting at length. I can see a short uppercut on the inside jolting Golovkin as he arcs a wide right hand, then a few more punches push him on the defensive. No doubt he will bite down and invite us to witness what we pay to expect, but it might not be the wisest of moves, in fact it might be a move of pure arrogance that could lead the young lion to assume the mantle of King of the Middleweights – Viva El Rey – Viva El Canelo. Whilst you also mention that Gennady has had close to 400 fights, as we both know in the the former block countries an amateur can go 200 odd before 18-20 years old. Kostyat had close to 300 in his early twenties. They’re constantly scrapping and whilst the experience does a lot of good, as highlighted by the losses of many amateur stars soon after turning pro, most recent notable Ukranian Lomachenko, it isn’t the firm rubber stamp of professional success as it may seem to be. Canelo in contrast has cut his teeth in the professional ranks since the age of 15. He too has experience. He has fought some of the best fighters on the planet in recent years and done well against almost all of them, experiences which have no doubt left him in great stead for the future – and he is still climbing and improving. Almost every aspect of his boxing has improved, and the willingness and desire can only have improved, easily identifiable by the trail he’s blazing in the wake of his slumped opponents after the first defeat of his professional career. Whilst Lemiuex will make it an attractive fight but not necessarily have the abilities to win against Golovkin, Canelo I believe does and when these two inevitably meet, I know who I’m going to back for the win.


-stormcentre :

Hey Skibbz, How's things? I was actually thinking of you as I wrote my above post - as I am sure you know with my implicit/sneaky reference to in-fighting and the Murray V Golovkin fight. :) Not sure whether you're saying Canelo (in his mind) doesn't need protection, or whether you're inferring Oscar is not considering protecting him and/or using Lemieux as a test to gauge the risk for Saul. Either way, the only difference is whether you're partly or wholly agreeing with me, and - at the end of the day - it doesn't really (personally) matter anyway if we agree or disagree. Anyway, if it's the former (you're saying Canelo - in his mind - doesn't need protection) I do agree with you; as I am sure that Saul believes he needs no protection. That said, I think Oscar got quite a scare from Canelo's interest in taking bigger challenges and the fight with Lara. So, that's (partly) where I am coming from when I say that I believe Oscar will use Lemieux to see whether his biggest cash cow is at risk. I could be wrong here; but in the current Haymon dominated boxing environment, I am pretty sure that Oscar will be thinking about how to delay any possible Canelo V Golovkin fight if 3G (with Lemieux) looks like he will easily destroy Canelo in a similar manner as he handled him when they last sparred. Golden Girl doesn't need more financial risk right now with the current promotional landscape, and Canelo is not only their biggest cash cow - but he's also their access to the Mexican market. Which just happens to also afford Oscar a lot of cosy airtime and consideration with other promotional outfits and/or businesses - businesses and interests that Oscar really can't afford to lose right now. Agree with you about how amateur experience doesn't always translate into a good professional fighter. But I think the jury is out on whether it has (worked) for 3G. What about you? Same for Kostya Tszyu, the amateur experience did translate into the professional ranks quite quickly/well for him. Although - as with 3G - many of the finer and more subtle advanced boxing skills (Tszyu possessed as a top amateur) slowly fell through the cracks created by 12 rounds of competition and an emphasis in the pro ranks on knockouts, "power", risk taking, and extreme stamina. I think (at least as far as I am concerned anyway :) ) that both Tszyu and Golovkin's amateur careers (but particularly Kostya's as he - when compared to 3G - basically doubled the achievement/title speed, and also level of competition when he was a professional) served them far better as professional fighters - than, say, becoming a professional fighter at an early age like Canelo did. To me, this is evidenced by how . . . only in these last 5 or so years has Canelo really been facing top level competition. Whereas Tsyzu (especially) was doing that before he had 15 professional fights. But, as you rightly say, it doesn't always work out that way. Not sure whether you're aware of this or not; but the reason that many of the top level Eastern Bloc amateurs that do manage to become good professionals, actually do; is because their amateur style - as seen from both Tszyu and Golovkin's amateur and professional performances - teaches not just how to box fluently and strongly - but also (and perhaps more importantly if the transition from amateur to pro is of interest) how to fight. And that is one big area where a lot of really good amateurs, including Cubans, fall down when scaling the transition from the amateur ranks to that of a pro. But it's a balancing act. As being a really good/tough fighter (more than you can box at an advanced level) will only get you so far, particularly in the top levels of the game of boxing. As Floyd, Leonard, and many other really good technicians have shown. Happy to get your feedback on this. I don't agree with you that Canelo will/could beat 3G, and it's not just for the above reasons either. But that's OK, we didn't (at first) agree on Murray V 3G and also on aspects of Ward's last fight; but then we don't always have to agree. That said, I do think Canelo could give 3G a pretty tough fight, but in my opinion it would depend on not only what weight it was contested at - but also how much Canelo shows us in his next fight. As in some senses I see Canelo - as a marquee level fighter - as still a bit unproven. What I do (also) agree with you on is some aspects of Canelo's style and potential. I agree that many aspects of how I (in my above post) said the man who successfully fights 3G should fight and punch; Canelo can - as you also say - perform reasonably well with. I actually think Canelo is a very good fighter, and I have him as the favourite against Cotto. Canelo has grown into the role pretty well, and I do think it would be a good match with both him and 3G. I agree that Saul could - if he remains composed and doesn't wilt/sulk as he did with Floyd - in several ways, possibly present as the key solution that undoes a lot of what currently allows Gennady to get away with what he actually does. Aside from Canelo showing us something we haven't seen before in his next fight with Cotto that impacts what I say here; where I think our theories on Canelo V 3G diverge is on strength and adjustments. As I think 3G makes the adjustments that both matter and perplex Canelo; all while Canelo eats harder shots, forgets about defence, and gets dragged into a slugfest. I tell you one thing though, if you back Canelo to beat 3G and you win, you will probably make some good money there. And that's not just because of how the (odds would read because the) fight could only happen if 3G beats Lemieux, and Canelo does the same to Cotto. :) :)


-Froggy :

Thankfully for us and we have endured some rough times over these past ten years. But one era ends and another begins and this new one is going to be great!!!
Hear hear !


-Froggy :

Nice response Storm !


-amayseng :

I would agree on this - he is a crowd pleaser and will help satisfy GB's bottom line over the few years, and as you mention protects the gold for the time being. THAT SAID. Saul doesn't need protection, as he says, he was born ready. I think he's got the questions for Golovkin that might give him more trouble answering than he's had so far. In my previous post I mentioned that I think Canelo beats Golovkin and I explain why; As I mentioned, you either have to be the matador, and prance and dance your way around GGG hitting him with long levers or meet fire with fire and go for a potentially career shortening, fight of the year winning war. Of the former group, not too many of the current crop at 160 can do that, but at 154/168 I believe there are fighters who can. Of the latter I believe there are even less who have the requisites, but Canelo is one. Canelo is a better defensive fighter than he is given credit for, and I would argue better at not getting hit then Golovkin who invites punches in as per his tactics. At the risk of taking one or two punches Golovkin prepares his body for the motion and timing of a full force hook to the temple that explodes at a moment when some fighters can become complacent amidst their combination. Adding that the hooks are thrown wide from unorthodox angles, it can have disasterous effects. He does something Mayweather, Toney and JCC often did, getting in position to throw a right hand and holding it for a split second longer than almost ALL fighters are accustomed ? curiosity kills the cat and the guard is lowered to see ?What?s the hold up Gennady I thought I had a right hand coming m-? BOOM. Flush in the face. But Canelo is just as good at timing his opponents in my opinion, just as fast if not faster than Gennady and carries the punch in his fists that will make it a real fight. Golovkin has been seen to be vulnerable to uppercuts (not denying he has an incredible uppercut himself) and that is a punch Canelo can throw all too well. He throws sublime combinations that leave the recipient pulverized, he has a good jab and knows how to set up his punches but crucially he is as good at countering and fighting on the inside as he is fighting at length. I can see a short uppercut on the inside jolting Golovkin as he arcs a wide right hand, then a few more punches push him on the defensive. No doubt he will bite down and invite us to witness what we pay to expect, but it might not be the wisest of moves, in fact it might be a move of pure arrogance that could lead the young lion to assume the mantle of King of the Middleweights ? Viva El Rey ? Viva El Canelo. Whilst you also mention that Gennady has had close to 400 fights, as we both know in the the former block countries an amateur can go 200 odd before 18-20 years old. Kostyat had close to 300 in his early twenties. They?re constantly scrapping and whilst the experience does a lot of good, as highlighted by the losses of many amateur stars soon after turning pro, most recent notable Ukranian Lomachenko, it isn?t the firm rubber stamp of professional success as it may seem to be. Canelo in contrast has cut his teeth in the professional ranks since the age of 15. He too has experience. He has fought some of the best fighters on the planet in recent years and done well against almost all of them, experiences which have no doubt left him in great stead for the future ? and he is still climbing and improving. Almost every aspect of his boxing has improved, and the willingness and desire can only have improved, easily identifiable by the trail he?s blazing in the wake of his slumped opponents after the first defeat of his professional career. Whilst Lemiuex will make it an attractive fight but not necessarily have the abilities to win against Golovkin, Canelo I believe does and when these two inevitably meet, I know who I?m going to back for the win.
Quite ambitious my friend but there is no way Canelo beats GGG due to his POOR ability to move his feet while punching. Floyd knew this as I and RG knew this and predicted with accurate testament that Canelo's feet would be his downfall. Floyd put on a clinic whilst standing in the pocket and still making Canelo miss and miss and miss all night long just picking him a part and making him look like a novice. GGG wins for a few reasons. His stamina is ten folds Canelo's as we have seen Canelo slow down tremendously at the end rounds of a fight, if not earlier. His footwork is superior as Canelo's lacks terribly where he fails against fighters that can move a bit. Where Canelo has great firepower and ability to punch in combinations, he has to be set to do it and GGG has the ability as Floyd did to lean and sway in the pocket to make hitters miss. While I do love me some Canelo who is a great and entertaining fighter, he just lacks in about every category there is against GGG who is superior. Some fighters are just special above others, GGG is one of those. GGG has only shown you what he wants you to at this point, the guy can box but chooses to be entertaining. The only man with any chance to beat GGG is Ward, and that is not this Ward who has been inactive for 20 months and just sparred a tomato can in P Smith, but an active Ward at the top of his game.