Discussing Floyd Vs. Golovkin and “TBE” at 160, or 154

Floyd-Mayweather-Jr

No, I do not sit around and clench my fists, and spend my energies on hoping and wishing and praying that Floyd Mayweather will get beat.

So when I put forth the notion that I think the man who calls himself TBE should tiptoe his most talented tush up to 160 pounds, so that he might find someone who can test him, I can't be dismissed as a hater, as an anti-Floyd guy who wants him to get his comeuppance at the hands of a stronger man.

Now, do I think it's debatable whether he is the BEST representation for our sport, whether the sport as a whole is best served by having Floyd as it's top dog? I do…and I think I'd take the stance that long-term the sport would be helped by having a more humble, less money focused, more offensive minded pugilist leading its charge. But that doesn't mean I dismiss the mans' chops. Floyd Mayweather is among the best ever as a defender, he's a defensive savant, and though I don't consider him really to be in the TBE mix simply because I personally believe offense is at least 75% the most important component when you are choosing traits of TBE, I do scream to the heavens that he's the best technical prizefighter of his generation.

But is he fan friendly to watch? No. One, because he doesn't fully commit offensively, and whether that's because he has brittle hands or is risk averse, that's his reasoning to share, or not.

Because he is so far and away more talented than anyone he steps in with, there is a distinct lack of drama when we watch Floyd. He makes A grade fighters looks C grade, makes the Pacquiaos and Canelos look like comparative amateurs.

So, should he make the leap up to 168, to get in with Andre Ward? That is a bridge too far, though I have in the past pondered having Ward drain to 164 to make that fantasy fight…but I think a middle ground, a leap from 154, where he's fought and performed well at, to 160, isn't asking too much from the man who asks us to call him TBE.

Of course, his passionate backers will take to Twitter and defend him like they are getting paid to do so.

Woods, he's not even a welterweight, they will cry..bizarrely, to me, as he totally is that, the best welterweight in the world…oh, and he's the best junior middle in the world, to boot. They say “he's a welterweight” like this is a guy who loads his pockets with lead to appear heavier than he is.

And I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's the best middleweight in the world, too.

Yep, I think if Floyd stepped to the line, and agreed to fight Gennady Golovkin, he'd better Golovkin.

That same instinct to protect the chin would be in effect if “Money” gave us that big drama show against the mean-fisted hitter from Kazahkstan. Would there be risk for Floyd? Uh, yeah, sure. There is risk for anyone gloving up in a pro bout, basically. But I sort of think his risk to reward ratio has been pretty kind to him to this point, no?

His backers will go back to pointing out how small he is, tell you that he walks around at 155 pounds max…and use a tone which suggests he's a woeful defender, who will be thrown to the wolves if he takes on a man in a weight class a step up from 154, where Floyd has held a belt. They use a tone which they don't employ for the dozens of other boxers who ply their trade with the grim knowledge that they are burning off brain cells, risking CTE, as they eat punches. Robert Guerrero, he eats a dozen filthy power punches a fight now, and his brain pain gets rattled all the time, and the Floyd fans seem OK with that fact. But asking the guy who says he's TBE to go out of his comfort zone, to a place where in fact the other guy might have the sort of power which could bother Mayweather, they make like that is asking for the sun and moon and stars. And…maybe it is.

Maybe those Golovkin fists are simply sledgehammers, and Floyd is too undersized to safely repel them. I posed this scenario to a guy who can speak to taking punches from someone who possesses a heavy power edge, Daniel Geale.

He was dropped twice by Miguel Cotto on Saturday night, and was in against a person who had a vast power edge over him, as, I guess, Triple G would over Floyd.

Geale doesn't possess the defensive skills that Floyd does, so that power edge became significantly apparent to the masses at Barclays Center and on HBO. I asked Geale, what about it, is it asking too much for Floyd Mayweather to hop up six pounds, take his majestic skills to the middleweight division, to face off against a man regarded as an A grade middleweight, Gennady Golovkin?

“I believe so, I think it's asking too much,” Geale told me. “And if he gets beat, then everyone will say, Well, he shouldn't a went up in weight. He's fighting guys so much bigger, so much stronger…and he is so skilled..but it just takes on punch. Boxing is a sport, you get hit with one punch, it can change a fighters' career, a fight. I want to see him gets tested. But I'm not sure about him going up that far. Maybe he will out-box Golovkin but, who knows?”

Indeed; I think sometimes I think more of Floyd's talent than some of his fans do. I think he handles middleweight, deals with and defuses Golovkin, but I think we will never know. Anyway, I will continue to add input from other boxers and such.

No surprise, Golovkins' trainer Abel Sanchez thinks Floyd should step to the line. “If you want to be considered as one of the greatest ever you have to take on challenges a mortal man could not and would not, time has shown us that,” Sanchez told me. “That jump is very possible, one of the GREATEST lightweights ever Roberto Duran moved up two weight divisions and challenged the great Sugar Ray Leonard and then jumped up two more weight divisions and fought the established great middleweight champion Marvelous Marvin Hagler, both fights were of the boxing history-making kind.”

He continued: “It appears that most observers do not consider GGG a proven champion, a hype some say, unlike the previous greats (mentioned at time they fought), so the weight should not be an issue, even though GGG has stated he would consider a lighter weight, Floyd vs GGG would go down as one of those history making fights.”

People need to be reminded that the true greats did leap up in weight class back in the day, Sanchez told me. “It is so easy to throw the “The Greatest Ever” monicker around, in order for it to apply it has to be compared to something, the real greats of the past,” he stated.

Sanchez doubled back a couple days later, to add a thought:

“A thought: How would a fight between Floyd vs Hagler be looked at, at middleweight, would Floyd be too small still? If that fight is possible in the minds of GGG haters and not against GGG, imagine what would the outcome of GGG vs Hagler would be.”

Shane Mosley doesn't think Floyd is suited to fight GGG at 160. “I don't think Mayweather fights at middleweight, he is just too small,” Mosley told me. “GGG would have to come down and fight him at 154. Mayweather is really like a 140 pounder. Even if they met at 154 it would be a hard fight cause GGG is a natural 160.”

And really, is the power SOOO different at 154 and 160?

“The power could be really different,” he said. “Depends on the fighter and what kind of snap they have.”

Do you think Floyd couldn't fight anyone at 160?

“I don't know,” Mosley said.  “He could come up against certain fighters but not GGG.”

Tureano Johnson told me he thinks damn straight, Floyd could do a fight at 160. The Bahamian middleweight said that, “A naturally big middleweight, like Triple G, would be too much. But the Cottos, Geales, Moras and Monroes, I think Mayweather could beat. And yes, I think Triple G beats Floyd…to the body.”

Promoter Tom Loeffler is happy to have his kid carve and starve to 154. Well, not happy, but accepting of the fact that Floyd works the system and sucks every bit of leverage out of a deal that he can. “We don't want 154, but for Floyd Gennady would come down to 154,” Loeffler told me.

 

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COMMENTS

-deepwater2 :

TBE would take the test.


-Pazuzu :

Sugar Shane's twitter feed has been dropping some cryptic promises of news that will turn the boxing world on its head. Lord, I hope this is it. C'mon Floyd. Step on up.


-SouthPawFlo :

I think he outboxes GGG at 154 or at a 157 catch weight, but at 160 GGG could come in the ring and outweigh Floyd by almost 30 lbs and that's tough for anyone to overcome TBE or not


-Bernie Campbell :

I think its a fair fight at 155! GGG gotta consider going up for Ward also!


-Radam G :

I think he outboxes GGG at 154 or at a 157 catch weight, but at 160 GGG could come in the ring and outweigh Floyd by almost 30 lbs and that's tough for anyone to overcome TBE or not
No it is not. It is skills that pay the bills, not size. That size syet is a strong, strong big myth. In the actuality of the reality, the smaller man wins 80 percent of the time. Holla at some history. Welterweights have a long, long historic trail of coming up to middleweight and taking the title. Holla!


-Radam G :

I think he outboxes GGG at 154 or at a 157 catch weight, but at 160 GGG could come in the ring and outweigh Floyd by almost 30 lbs and that's tough for anyone to overcome TBE or not
No it is not. It is skills that pay the bills, not size. That size syet is a strong, strong big myth. In the actuality of the reality, the smaller man wins 80 percent of the time. Holla at some history. Welterweights have a long, long historic trail of coming up to middleweight and taking the title. Holla!


-Yogo :

If Floyd can get him at 154 it could be interesting. can't see money remotely considering anything else. Golovkin's so unlucky to be stuck in an era of poor MW's. Go North GGG. Froch at Wembley's the one i would rather see.


-Radam G :

If Floyd can get him at 154 it could be interesting. can't see money remotely considering anything else. Golovkin's so unlucky to be stuck in an era of poor MW's. Go North GGG. Froch at Wembley's the one i would rather see.
Smart sighting. Three g is no doubt in an era of skills-poor middleweights. Wow! The middles and heavies stink. Holla!


-Matthew :

No way Mayweather even considers a fight with Golovkin without asking GGG to cut off one leg and fight with one hand tied behind his back. He's too risk averse.


-Radam G :

No way Mayweather even considers a fight with Golovkin without asking GGG to cut off one leg and fight with one hand tied behind his back. He's too risk averse.
Amen! Holla!


-amayseng :

I think he outboxes GGG at 154 or at a 157 catch weight, but at 160 GGG could come in the ring and outweigh Floyd by almost 30 lbs and that's tough for anyone to overcome TBE or not
30 pounds?? haha


-brownsugar :

I think that requesting Mayweather to challenge GGG is either the most sincerest form of flattery or the manifestation of the most deep seated desire to see him brutalized. As if the rejection of a few internet critics could push Mayweather into proposing a fight he's no longer capable of winning. If he were 5 years younger and if he didn't have the tender mitts I could see it. Mayweather has already fought above his natural weight when he was in his physical prime at a time when he had the youth and the physicality to succeed. For example No one would even consider suggesting that the King of Catch weights, (Manny Pac) to challenge a legitimate junior middleweight, to earn another title let alone move up to middleweight, so why the double standard?? Is it because Pac's not talented enough? Similarly, no one ever said Marvelous Marvin Hagler was a coward because he never fought a super middleweight or a light heavyweight. When he was asked to take on challengers from heavier divisions, Marvin's answer was always the same, " let them fight me at Middleweight " So the suggestion that Floyd is avoiding GGG, is afraid of GGG, ... or limiting his legacy by not fighting him is like saying Lomanchenko cannot fulfil his destiny until he fights Andre Ward. I heard that a guy named Walker Smith, also known as Sugar Ray Robinson, also known as The Best Ever once challenged a light heavy named Joey Maxim, Robinson was actually winning until he was overcome by heat in combination with his relative advanced age. Robinson's is universally praised for his history making attempt. However the praise was of little use during Ray's retirement years. Robinson spent most of his post boxing years being treated for a host of medical complications stemming from a variety of conditions including diabetes, Alzheimer's, and heart disease. Ray should have retired long before that. He died at the age of 67. What I'd like to see more than any crazy weight jumping spectacles that only come around once or twice a decade when a boxing savant like Floyd or Leonard come along, is champions in every weight class who are willing to take on every valid and deserving challenger in their own division regardless of their popularity or how well connected they are. Guys like Marvin Hagler and Holmes fought who was next in line whom ever it was. The fans always knew the next best guy was next to challenge for the title. You didn't need a marketing whiz to determine who was on deck. To hell with the tired cliche' "if it don't make dollars it don't make sense". How about boxers taking their mandatories like the used to do on a more consistent basis. This would insure a steady supply of quality fights the fans would be interested in watching instead of complaining about Right now I'd like to see Floyd fight some new like Brook, Khan or Thurman, Canelo and Cotto don't need another "L" on their records.


-Radam G :

Wow! A Lil Floyd apologist is in da hizouse. And it is about time for people to come with the truth about SRR. He was passing out and syet against Joey Maxim from drinking toxic blood from a dead disease cow. But nobody wants to discuss that because the myth of the hot sun making him pass out against "a giant" is better to believe. Blaming it on size is bunk. Only in boxing, you keep telling myths until they become believed as the real deal. SRR got all those health issues, such as diabetes from a bad diet, and maybe genetics, not boksing. Inside dat squared jungle, he was smart. Outside it, he wasn't. Call a spade a spade, and not hide in da shade. Holla!


-Radam G :

Sugar Ray Robinson heart's disease especially came from a bad diet and probably drinking. BTW, Lil Floyd's peons don't know the reason that he got "Chef Q" to make his food at nearly $30,000 a week. Dude is already suffering minor health problems from eating all that fast food that he loves and from taking "supplements" that were bad. And have since been removed from the market. Lil Floyd's blood pressure was up something terrible. Doctors want your blood pressure to be 115/75 nowadays, not 120/80 like some people who don't know syet about healthcare believe. Elite athletes -- not on dat syet -- blood pressure is even lower than 115/75. Lil Floyd's blood pressure was high -- 118/84 for Da Manny farce. So Lil Floyd has more health problems now than his hands. Years of taking dat syet for body beauty and munching on fast, unhealthy foods have already caught up with him. Holla!


-Radam G :

Holla at Lil Floyd's high blood pressure problem going into Da Manny Farce. You can see his blood pressure written on this questionaire:
->http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=266957. Holla!


-amayseng :

I think that requesting Mayweather to challenge GGG is either the most sincerest form of flattery or the manifestation of the most deep seated desire to see him brutalized. As if the rejection of a few internet critics could push Mayweather into proposing a fight he's no longer capable of winning. If he were 5 years younger and if he didn't have the tender mitts I could see it. Mayweather has already fought above his natural weight when he was in his physical prime at a time when he had the youth and the physicality to succeed. For example No one would even consider suggesting that the King of Catch weights, (Manny Pac) to challenge a legitimate junior middleweight, to earn another title let alone move up to middleweight, so why the double standard?? Is it because Pac's not talented enough? Similarly, no one ever said Marvelous Marvin Hagler was a coward because he never fought a super middleweight or a light heavyweight. When he was asked to take on challengers from heavier divisions, Marvin's answer was always the same, " let them fight me at Middleweight " So the suggestion that Floyd is avoiding GGG, is afraid of GGG, ... or limiting his legacy by not fighting him is like saying Lomanchenko cannot fulfil his destiny until he fights Andre Ward. I heard that a guy named Walker Smith, also known as Sugar Ray Robinson, also known as The Best Ever once challenged a light heavy named Joey Maxim, Robinson was actually winning until he was overcome by heat in combination with his relative advanced age. Robinson's is universally praised for his history making attempt. However the praise was of little use during Ray's retirement years. Robinson spent most of his post boxing years being treated for a host of medical complications stemming from a variety of conditions including diabetes, Alzheimer's, and heart disease. Ray should have retired long before that. He died at the age of 67. What I'd like to see more than any crazy weight jumping spectacles that only come around once or twice a decade when a boxing savant like Floyd or Leonard come along, is champions in every weight class who are willing to take on every valid and deserving challenger in their own division regardless of their popularity or how well connected they are. Guys like Marvin Hagler and Holmes fought who was next in line whom ever it was. The fans always knew the next best guy was next to challenge for the title. You didn't need a marketing whiz to determine who was on deck. To hell with the tired cliche' "if it don't make dollars it don't make sense". How about boxers taking their mandatories like the used to do on a more consistent basis. This would insure a steady supply of quality fights the fans would be interested in watching instead of complaining about Right now I'd like to see Floyd fight some new like Brook, Khan or Thurman, Canelo and Cotto don't need another "L" on their records.
Floyd is still in his prime, not the best prime but still prime and the reasoning for that is he is still the number 1 WW in the world, SWW in the world and number 1 boxer lb4lb in the world. Floyd fights a safety first style with such movement and anti fighting that it is highly conceivable that he having 2 belts at 154, and him weighing in the mid 150's if not a bit higher for his last fight, can come in at 155-58 or such for a fight at 160lbs for the mw title. Now if he was 38 and a number 8 WW in the world I would not expect it. Though instead he is the BEST boxer on the planet who succeeds in anti fighting and has the size to fight for the mw title. Now if I was him I would skip the monster GGG who would smash him at 160 and instead fight Cotto for the mw title he has been holding hostage. What else is there for him? If his next ppv is not historic then it will suffer tremendously after he laid an egg against Pac in the most anticipated, expensive and disappointing PPV IN HISTORY


-kidcanvas :

if he finally would fight a real challenge like triple G and not at a weight where it drain him so floyd could have an advantage and win it in fashion, then i would concede he was the best around today , Best ever? Never! not close.


-Domenic :

Floyd Mayweather holds respected 154 pound titles right now. He has for almost a decade. People talk about this ---and I suppose it's a serious ode to Golovkin--- as if he's fighting a chainsaw. Mayweather advocates fear for his life in this match. But in the same breath, they point out the flaws in Golovkin, and contend he's for the ripe for the taking. It's very confusing. Bottom line, we're not talking about Robinson challenging Maxim, which is climbing Mount Everest with a broken leg compared to this. It's 6 pounds north of where he is now, and the biggest legacy fight on the table for him. No one will talk about Amir Khan or God forbid, JMM decades from now (if it's Marquez, I hope a collective boycott can be had). In 2050, they will talk about his challenge of Golovkin though. It's historic. Ray Leonard would do it. That's why Ray Leonard is tiers ahead of Floyd historically, as of now, in my opinion. Not even close. The article points out Floyd's defensive wizardry. It's possible Golovkin never lands any leather at all. One of the premises to getting a Floyd fight in the past was the opponent's record. Golovkin's undefeated. Floyd used to malign Pacquiao during the failed years because he wasn't undefeated. He'd been beaten. Can't make that argument with GGG. This thing would be HUGE, but obviously we're in fantasy land here. Bring on Marquez. Great.


-amayseng :

Floyd Mayweather holds respected 154 pound titles right now. He has for almost a decade. People talk about this ---and I suppose it's a serious ode to Golovkin--- as if he's fighting a chainsaw. Mayweather advocates fear for his life in this match. But in the same breath, they point out the flaws in Golovkin, and contend he's for the ripe for the taking. It's very confusing. Bottom line, we're not talking about Robinson challenging Maxim, which is climbing Mount Everest with a broken leg compared to this. It's 6 pounds north of where he is now, and the biggest legacy fight on the table for him. No one will talk about Amir Khan or God forbid, JMM decades from now (if it's Marquez, I hope a collective boycott can be had). In 2050, they will talk about his challenge of Golovkin though. It's historic. Ray Leonard would do it. That's why Ray Leonard is tiers ahead of Floyd historically, as of now, in my opinion. Not even close. The article points out Floyd's defensive wizardry. It's possible Golovkin never lands any leather at all. One of the premises to getting a Floyd fight in the past was the opponent's record. Golovkin's undefeated. Floyd used to malign Pacquiao during the failed years because he wasn't undefeated. He'd been beaten. Can't make that argument with GGG. This thing would be HUGE, but obviously we're in fantasy land here. Bring on Marquez. Great.
Exactly Domenic, it is one excuse after another. He fought Zab because belts dont matter. Then fought Baldimor because he had belts. Fought Cotto at full weight because he doesnt want his opponent to be weakened like Pac did. Then cheats JMM on the scale, and then brings Canelo down to drain him. Then wont fight Pac because Pac is not undefeated. I dont have time to go on but it is always an excuse


-Radam G :

Exactly Domenic, it is one excuse after another. He fought Zab because belts dont matter. Then fought Baldimor because he had belts. Fought Cotto at full weight because he doesnt want his opponent to be weakened like Pac did. Then cheats JMM on the scale, and then brings Canelo down to drain him. Then wont fight Pac because Pac is not undefeated. I dont have time to go on but it is always an excuse
Hehehehe! Those riding on Money May's nut sack like crabs cannot see any contradictions, straight-out bullsyet and phoniness in double talk and double standards of Money May. Holla!


-SouthPawFlo :

Floyd is a Welterweight, and has never even weight close to the 154lb Limit when he went up there...... 160 is like higher than his usual walk around weight... GGG walks around at 180, why aren't they "screaming" for any other boxers to fight guys 30lbs bigger than them??????


-Radam G :

Floyd is a Welterweight, and has never even weight close to the 154lb Limit when he went up there...... 160 is like higher than his usual walk around weight... GGG walks around at 180, why aren't they "screaming" for any other boxers to fight guys 30lbs bigger than them??????
Money May has always refused to weight in on the night of the scraps, because he knows that he is weighting up to 157, 158. He even got a waiver for extra syet in his system against Da Manny. Money May has not been in the gym in a month. And anybody who knowsmweight, knows he is walking around at more than a buck 60. Dude's mug has even puffed up. Why do so many people want Money May to be smaller than what he is? Dude ain't midget size. His arse is hussy. Holla!


-SouthPawFlo :

GGG Is saying he can go up to 168, and probably walks around at 180-185, and Floyd could make 140 if he wanted to....


-amayseng :

GGG Is saying he can go up to 168, and probably walks around at 180-185, and Floyd could make 140 if he wanted to....
GGG does not walk around at 185, the guy fights so often he is always in the gym. always in fighting shape. Floyd can make 140? Where are you getting this information?