Cotto Drops Hammers In Round Four, Blasts Out Geale in Brooklyn

-Pazuzu :

The Martinez victory was no fluke. Cotto is a beast, and at the top of his game. Geale is not a bad fighter, but Miguel Cotto dominated every second of that fight. He may have whupped Geale even more thoroughly than Golovkin did. He was never out of position, always on balance, both hands ready to strike. Looking forward to the Canelo fight, and I hope he takes on GGG as well. Hell, he may have a shot a beating Floyd if they meet again.

-Pazuzu :

Also, Geale could have weighed in at 180 last night and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Cotto may be relecutant to call himself a true middleweight, but his power says otherwise. See there Floyd, that's how you do it. Step on up.

-Radam G :

What weaken The Aussie was pigging out overnight. Putting on 20+ pounds overnight messed up his electrolytes and brain fluid and liquid balance in his belly and the legs. You could pop Geale like a balloon. Dude had no punch resistance and shaky, zombie balance. You cannot drain yourself then stuff yourself within 24 hours and expect to have a smooth operating surviving or killing machine. Geale even had a dead-man stare in his mug lights. He was a dead man from the jump. And easy to bump. Holla!

-amayseng :

What weaken The Aussie was pigging out overnight. Putting on 20+ pounds overnight messed up his electrolytes and brain fluid and liquid balance in his belly and the legs. You could pop Geale like a balloon. Dude had no punch resistance and shaky, zombie balance. You cannot drain yourself then stuff yourself within 24 hours and expect to have a smooth operating surviving or killing machine. Geale even had a dead-man stare in his mug lights. He was a dead man from the jump. And easy to bump. Holla!

Yep, he was a drained zombie at the weigh in and then bloated and flat for the fight. I am a Cotto fan but he did himself a disservice with this catch weight bull ****. I am not impressed and he gets no props for this FAKE performance from me. He is levels above Geale without the catch weight. Having 3 easy non challenging fights will not help him against a prime and healthy Canelo and he for sure is NOT fighting GGG. He stuttered his way out of that fight during the in ring interview. Cotto you used to be a wrecking machine, now you are a bully always looking for an advantage over another fighter......

-brownsugar :

Cotto did good. But let's not compare it to the GGG fight. Geale was under extreme duress and discomfort from the opening bell. Squirming away from body punches and desperately searching for safe haven for the entire duration of the fight....right up until Golovkin cornered him and he clawed back like a cornered rat and was countered into oblivion after he landed his best punch. Against Cotto, Geale showed lively footwork and a busy jab while Cotto displayed good defense bodywork and movement for the first two feeling out rounds. Nothing really significant happened for either boxer. The fight heated up in the third with Geale trying to land his right and Cotto investing some solid work to the body. While I don't know the effects of the catchweight, Geale didn't look noticeably lethargic, or hampered. Both fighters were contending for dominance up to the end of round three. In the Fourth Geale threw a badly telegraphed uppercut in close (which missed) and never returned his hand to the guard position. He was standing 8 inches from Cotto with the entire right side of his face open to Cotto's beautifully timed counter hook to the temple. After Cotto exploited Geales blatant error the fight was effective over at that point. Cotto siezed the opportunity presented to him like a platter of freshly baked potato skins,.....too hard to resist. Good win for Cotto, Roach has said Canelo is next, its a winnable fight for the WildCard rejuvenated fighter,...I'd like to see Cotto finish his career on top. According to Roach, GGG is next if Cotto defeats Canelo, if Cotto and GGG ever fight,...I'm going on record today as saying Cotto won't last 8 full rounds. But as for now, Cotto has breathed some valuable credibility into his middleweight career, as long as he stays away from Jacobs, Lee, N'Dam, and GGG, he will do fine.

-amayseng :

Cotto did good. But let's not compare it to the GGG fight. Geale was under extreme duress and discomfort from the opening bell. Squirming away from body punches and desperately searching for safe haven for the entire duration of the fight....right up until Golovkin cornered him and he clawed back like a cornered rat and was countered into oblivion after he landed his best punch. Against Cotto, Geale showed lively footwork and a busy jab while Cotto displayed good defense bodywork and movement for the first two feeling out rounds. Nothing really significant happened for either boxer. The fight heated up in the third with Geale trying to land his right and Cotto investing some solid work to the body. While I don't know the effects of the catchweight, Geale didn't look noticeably lethargic, or hampered. Both fighters were contending for dominance up to the end of round three. In the Fourth Geale threw a badly telegraphed uppercut in close (which missed) and never returned his hand to the guard position. He was standing 8 inches from Cotto with the entire right side of his face open to Cotto's beautifully timed counter hook to the temple. After Cotto exploited Geales blatant error the fight was effective over at that point. Cotto siezed the opportunity presented to him like a platter of freshly baked potato skins,.....too hard to resist. Good win for Cotto, Roach has said Canelo is next, its a winnable fight for the WildCard rejuvenated fighter,...I'd like to see Cotto finish his career on top. According to Roach, GGG is next if Cotto defeats Canelo, if Cotto and GGG ever fight,...I'm going on record today as saying Cotto won't last 8 full rounds. But as for now, Cotto has breathed some valuable credibility into his middleweight career, as long as he stays away from Jacobs, Lee, N'Dam, and GGG, he will do fine.

Cotto looks sharp and crisp and he is controlling the pace and fights very well under Roach. However, the catch weight will do him no favor, you get better by facing great opposition or at last strong competition, not by blowing guys out that are unhealthy. Geale did not look lethargic but most don't in a few rounds. Though he was for sure flat, punching to the front of his target not through it.

-Radam G :

Cotto did good. But let's not compare it to the GGG fight. Geale was under extreme duress and discomfort from the opening bell. Squirming away from body punches and desperately searching for safe haven for the entire duration of the fight....right up until Golovkin cornered him and he clawed back like a cornered rat and was countered into oblivion after he landed his best punch. Against Cotto, Geale showed lively footwork and a busy jab while Cotto displayed good defense bodywork and movement for the first two feeling out rounds. Nothing really significant happened for either boxer. The fight heated up in the third with Geale trying to land his right and Cotto investing some solid work to the body. While I don't know the effects of the catchweight, Geale didn't look noticeably lethargic, or hampered. Both fighters were contending for dominance up to the end of round three. In the Fourth Geale threw a badly telegraphed uppercut in close (which missed) and never returned his hand to the guard position. He was standing 8 inches from Cotto with the entire right side of his face open to Cotto's beautifully timed counter hook to the temple. After Cotto exploited Geales blatant error the fight was effective over at that point. Cotto siezed the opportunity presented to him like a platter of freshly baked potato skins,.....too hard to resist. Good win for Cotto, Roach has said Canelo is next, its a winnable fight for the WildCard rejuvenated fighter,...I'd like to see Cotto finish his career on top. According to Roach, GGG is next if Cotto defeats Canelo, if Cotto and GGG ever fight,...I'm going on record today as saying Cotto won't last 8 full rounds. But as for now, Cotto has breathed some valuable credibility into his middleweight career, as long as he stays away from Jacobs, Lee, N'Dam, and GGG, he will do fine.

Wow! You saw all of that? "Geale showed lively footwork and a busy jab..." I saw a different Geale. Dude was dead eyed and zombie bytch staggering from the jump. And he was flailing shots like a drunk swatting at flies. Sight-to-brain interpretation is an amazing thing. Holla!

-brownsugar :

Cotto looks sharp and crisp and he is controlling the pace and fights very well under Roach. However, the catch weight will do him no favor, you get better by facing great opposition or at last strong competition, not by blowing guys out that are unhealthy. Geale did not look lethargic but most don't in a few rounds. Though he was for sure flat, punching to the front of his target not through it.

Correct Amayseng, that's why I said I didn't know to what extent he was effected. Usually guys can look good for a little while until they "hit the wall" you're probably right, the fight didn't go long enough to show any of the side effects, unless dropping his guard could be considered as one. Great comment.

-amayseng :

Correct Amayseng, that's why I said I didn't know to what extent he was effected. Usually guys can look good for a little while until they "hit the wall" you're probably right, the fight didn't go long enough to show any of the side effects, unless dropping his guard could be considered as one. Great comment.

It is in Cotto's favor that he stopped Geale before they entered mid rounds and it could become clear Geale was drained and worthless from the cut, instead Cotto got him out early and can keep the hype flowing for an elite match up to come. Either way I hope we get the Cotto vs Canelo fight soon, not another year layoff for Cotto. That fight will be fantastic and I can not pick a winner and don't want to really, it will be one just to enjoy. On another note, Geale has to be done as an HBO fighter, quitting on his feet twice in a row. Sure I would rather see a guy quit like that than to retain permanent life damage. However, it will not be highly possible to get another HBO fight quitting like that. Geale never presented anything great to begin with, he did all things fairly well, though what always stood out to me is that he is not a very coordinated person, hands or feet.

-Radam G :

Cotto looks sharp and crisp and he is controlling the pace and fights very well under Roach. However, the catch weight will do him no favor, you get better by facing great opposition or at last strong competition, not by blowing guys out that are unhealthy. Geale did not look lethargic but most don't in a few rounds. Though he was for sure flat, punching to the front of his target not through it.

Don't hate on so-called catch weight so much. It is a prizefighting-business move and has always been legit. Pugs have been agreeing to that type of scrapping over a hundred years. TSS scribes -- perhaps Spring To -- should scribble about it. Cotto is also going to fight Canelo at a catch weight. Any pugs who wants a shot, and da dough, will jump through loops and fight at catch weights. Matter of fact, da whole game is about catch-weight pugging nowadays. There are just suppose to be eight weight divisions in boxing and one world title belt. But you have five major sanctioning organizations and 22 weight divisions. This means that 14 of those weight division are legit bastards. People and pugs used to bytch about which sanctioning organization was the legit one. Matter of fact Deontay Wilder is talking syet right now how he is the only legit heavyweight champion because he is "WBC." And it is "favored over all the other organizations." He also claims that it is the oldest. Not truth! The granddaddy of the alphabet sanctioning organizations is the WBA. It was the original NBA -- National Boxing Association. Holla!

-Pazuzu :

Correct Amayseng, that's why I said I didn't know to what extent he was effected. Usually guys can look good for a little while until they "hit the wall" you're probably right, the fight didn't go long enough to show any of the side effects, unless dropping his guard could be considered as one. Great comment.

Not sure it was due to the weight or not, but Geale's hand placement was one of the biggest holes in his game last night. He might get off a 1-2, but he'd drop his hands afterwards and was rarely in a position to counter. Cotto always reset correctly and was in position to take advantge of openings and counters for maximum damage. I loved that dedication to the body work too. Right from the opening bell. BAM! Everyone is bagging on Cotto today for whupping a depleated Geale, but I don't think the result would have been much different even if Geale had come in at 160. Cotto is looking sharp with Roach and fighting like a bad man. I hope we don't have to wait too long for the Canelo fight.

-Domenic :

Kudos to Cotto. I haven't seen it yet but am gonna watch the HBO rebroadcast this morning. It sounds like he was hesitant regarding Golovkin. Hogwash. He starched Martinez and Geale so hopefully he goes to the man next, or dumps the strap and fights Canelo at 154. Screw the catchweight nonsense. Let your opponent come in at the weight division limit, if he so chooses. Worry about your own weight only, or don't take the fight and admit that you fear the guy at full strength.

-Domenic :

And kudos to American Pharoah. We've all been talking about the Triple Crown here since prior to the Kentucky Derby, and we witnessed history. I was only 6 years old when Affirmed did it in 1978, so what a damn special day and run for one remarkable horse. American Pharoah is not unlike a great prizefighter, like Golovkin, that you just don't see too often.

-deepwater2 :

And kudos to American Pharoah. We've all been talking about the Triple Crown here since prior to the Kentucky Derby, and we witnessed history. I was only 6 years old when Affirmed did it in 1978, so what a damn special day and run for one remarkable horse. American Pharoah is not unlike a great prizefighter, like Golovkin, that you just don't see too often.

What a great race. Good for Keen ice also. It was nice to watch history. 3 out of my 4 for my superfecta came in. Materiality let me down big time. I think I will frame my winning ticket ,American pharaoh for the win. It didn't pay much at all but it is nice to have it. Cotto by early KO was my lock of the weekend. Guerrero got mauled by an unranked fighter. What is tsAH doing with this matchmaking? Today I go to watch the sport of kings for the first time in my life- polo.

-Domenic :

Right on man. You called Keen Ice, I remember and it's on record here. I kept my program from the track as well.

-ultimoshogun :

Cotto looked great last night...Geale, not so much. Sounds like the Canelo fight is gonna happen and it should be epic. I agree with amayseng, Cotto's body language during the interview tells me he wants no part of Triple G.

-amayseng :

Don't hate on so-called catch weight so much. It is a prizefighting-business move and has always been legit. Pugs have been agreeing to that type of scrapping over a hundred years. TSS scribes -- perhaps Spring To -- should scribble about it. Cotto is also going to fight Canelo at a catch weight. Any pugs who wants a shot, and da dough, will jump through loops and fight at catch weights. Matter of fact, da whole game is about catch-weight pugging nowadays. There are just suppose to be eight weight divisions in boxing and one world title belt. But you have five major sanctioning organizations and 22 weight divisions. This means that 14 of those weight division are legit bastards. People and pugs used to bytch about which sanctioning organization was the legit one. Matter of fact Deontay Wilder is talking syet right now how he is the only legit heavyweight champion because he is "WBC." And it is "favored over all the other organizations." He also claims that it is the oldest. Not truth! The granddaddy of the alphabet sanctioning organizations is the WBA. It was the original NBA -- National Boxing Association. Holla!

I know it is a part of the business and guys have to agree to get that shot and I would too for a title. Though, it still diminishes the excellence of Cotto's performance. Beating a guy who is not at full strength, or far from it is not impressive to me.

-amayseng :

Not sure it was due to the weight or not, but Geale's hand placement was one of the biggest holes in his game last night. He might get off a 1-2, but he'd drop his hands afterwards and was rarely in a position to counter. Cotto always reset correctly and was in position to take advantge of openings and counters for maximum damage. I loved that dedication to the body work too. Right from the opening bell. BAM! Everyone is bagging on Cotto today for whupping a depleated Geale, but I don't think the result would have been much different even if Geale had come in at 160. Cotto is looking sharp with Roach and fighting like a bad man. I hope we don't have to wait too long for the Canelo fight.

You could see many times Geale was moving his arms around , between rounds, after rounds some during as if trying to get them moving because they felt heavy and just didn't have snap to them. He knew he did not feel right.

-SouthPawFlo :

Although the finishing round left hook was impressive, his Defense, Movement and body punching are what impressed me the best.... I'll pick Cotto over both Canelo and GGG, experience will play a part and he's defensively better than both guys... Golovkin is there to be hit and Cotto might have the power in his left hook to really get GGG's Attention and Canelo is still too green and won't respond well to the movement of Cotto

-Pazuzu :

You could see many times Geale was moving his arms around , between rounds, after rounds some during as if trying to get them moving because they felt heavy and just didn't have snap to them. He knew he did not feel right.

You are correct, amayseng. You could even see it before the fight during the ring announcement. Geale was working his arms out like they were filled with lead. Still, I don't want to take too much away from Cotto's performance. I was impressed with a lot, regardless of Geale's condition. Cotto definietly hesitated in answering Kellerman's question about GGG. I'll still pick Golovkin for that fight, but Cotto would provide Golovkin with a sterner test than he has ever faced before, and would be a very live dog. I could even see Cotto pulling out a decision victory over GGG, though he may get beaten to within an inch of his life in the process...so, yeah, I understand the hesitation.

-Domenic :

Cotto has never ducked anyone, so it's not his style at all. Let's hope he tackles the middleweight champ. He's a live dog and real deal guy. Let's hope it happens.

-Radam G :

You are correct, amayseng. You could even see it before the fight during the ring announcement. Geale was working his arms out like they were filled with lead. Still, I don't want to take too much away from Cotto's performance. I was impressed with a lot, regardless of Geale's condition. Cotto definietly hesitated in answering Kellerman's question about GGG. I'll still pick Golovkin for that fight, but Cotto would provide Golovkin with a sterner test than he has ever faced before, and would be a very live dog. I could even see Cotto pulling out a decision victory over GGG, though he may get beaten to within an inch of his life in the process...so, yeah, I understand the hesitation.

Sorry! But hesitation of speech means nuffin' in da hurt bitnezz. A hesitant-speaking pug has been known to take the scrap and shock "da wiirrllldddd!" Trust me! M-Co has no fright in a 3g fight. Holla!

-Pazuzu :

Sorry! But hesitation of speech means nuffin' in da hurt bitnezz. A hesitant-speaking pug has been known to take the scrap and shock "da wiirrllldddd!" Trust me! M-Co has no fright in a 3g fight. Holla!

I hope you are right, RG. I'll believe you when Cotto takes the fight.

-amayseng :

Although the finishing round left hook was impressive, his Defense, Movement and body punching are what impressed me the best.... I'll pick Cotto over both Canelo and GGG, experience will play a part and he's defensively better than both guys... Golovkin is there to be hit and Cotto might have the power in his left hook to really get GGG's Attention and Canelo is still too green and won't respond well to the movement of Cotto

I agree with how Cotto's tools you have noted would give him the upper hand in beating Canelo, who still does not punch while moving and has had stamina issues in the past. I think it is a very even fight though as Canelo has a lot of firepower and is young and strong. Though I do not see Cotto beating GGG. GGG is an entirely different monster. Cotto was nearly running out of steam and having a bit of difficulty closing the show against Margacheato in a rematch, where we know Marg was not loaded. That was a primer Cotto. GGG is a monster and too big and strong, he would be relentless.

-Domenic :

Although the finishing round left hook was impressive, his Defense, Movement and body punching are what impressed me the best.... I'll pick Cotto over both Canelo and GGG, experience will play a part and he's defensively better than both guys... Golovkin is there to be hit and Cotto might have the power in his left hook to really get GGG's Attention and Canelo is still too green and won't respond well to the movement of Cotto

Bold man. You're picking Cotto over Golovkin? I think Golovkin will walk through him but you never know. That's the fight. Forget Canelo, it's Golovkin-Cotto for it all. It's a blockbuster that I hope they make.

-SouthPawFlo :

Why I would pick Cotto over GGG... Cotto has a better resume and has faced tougher opposition in his career Cotto is better defensively Cotto has better movement Cotto has been to the Big Stage of PPV Before and won't be affected by the "Bright Lights" Cotto has shown he can go 12 Rounds in a Big Fight Cotto's Jab is a Serious "weapon" against a guy with as little Head Movement as GGG

-DaveB :

I don't have a problem with the catchweight per se, it is just when a title is concerned that it bothers me. It is called the middleweight championship not the middleweight catchweight championship. Why didn't Cotto fight Pacquaio again at catchweight? He said I'm not going to do that again to give the other fighter an advantage. Roach is the catchweight king and is destroying legacies. His guys could fight at lower weights and still get kudos for their fighting. People that back Cotto say he has fought better fighters than GGG which is true but if that is so why doesn't Cotto just out and out say, if that is any kind of proof that he is better, to which I disagree, I'll fight and beat this guy? Why? Because he knows that GGG is no joke. I'm picking Canelo to win because Cotto is stylistically made for him. Looking forward to that one. Let's see what the catchweight game will be in this one.

-StormCentre :

Geale, within the space of 9 days had; A) Increased his body weight by approximately 25 pounds between the weigh in and actual fight. B) After decreasing it by 10 (or more) pounds in the 7 days leading up to the fight. No matter which way you flip the pattie it's still lost most, if not all, of its juice. I love Cotto and think he is a great boxer/fighter. But this is no way to, in your first defence, defend the middleweight title. It is a way to safely and without risk repay Roc Nation for their investment though; whilst also ensuring Geale earns too. :) :)

-Radam G :

I don't have a problem with the catchweight per se, it is just when a title is concerned that it bothers me. It is called the middleweight championship not the middleweight catchweight championship. Why didn't Cotto fight Pacquaio again at catchweight? He said I'm not going to do that again to give the other fighter an advantage. Roach is the catchweight king and is destroying legacies. His guys could fight at lower weights and still get kudos for their fighting. People that back Cotto say he has fought better fighters than GGG which is true but if that is so why doesn't Cotto just out and out say, if that is any kind of proof that he is better, to which I disagree, I'll fight and beat this guy? Why? Because he knows that GGG is no joke. I'm picking Canelo to win because Cotto is stylistically made for him. Looking forward to that one. Let's see what the catchweight game will be in this one.

There has always been contracted catch weights. You just did not know it because scribes did not find that important to keep pounding on to the public like nowadays. I wish TSS Springs To or one of the scribes weave a piece about all the catch-weight scraps of the 1920s to nowadays. Even better when and what scrap was the first catch-weight bout in history. For instance, in long-ago yesteryears, a welterweight champion would scrap with the middleweight champion at a contracted 155lbs. A small heavyweight champion would not allow his challenger to come in no more than 200lbs. So-called catch weights are as old as boxing. Holla!

-StormCentre :

Don't hate on so-called catch weight so much. It is a prizefighting-business move
and has always been legit. Pugs have been agreeing to that type of scrapping over a hundred years.
TSS scribes -- perhaps Spring To -- should scribble about it. Cotto is also going to fight Canelo at a catch weight. Any pugs who wants a shot, and da dough, will jump through loops and fight at catch weights. Matter of fact, da whole game is about catch-weight pugging nowadays. There are just suppose to be eight weight divisions in boxing and one world title belt. But you have five major sanctioning organizations and 22 weight divisions. This means that 14 of those weight division are legit bastards. People and pugs used to bytch about which sanctioning organization was the legit one. Matter of fact Deontay Wilder is talking syet right now how he is the only legit heavyweight champion because he is "WBC." And it is "favored over all the other organizations." He also claims that it is the oldest. Not truth! The granddaddy of the alphabet sanctioning organizations is the WBA. It was the original NBA -- National Boxing Association. Holla!

Nope. No they haven't. And scribes do write about it. Grab yourself a coffee, get off the 5 gallon drum, take a week to digest the below information, think positively; learn.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21431-Golovkin-Will-Know-Next-Better-After-Cotto-Geale&p=83525&viewfull=1#post83525 :) :)

-StormCentre :

I don't have a problem with the catchweight per se, it is just when a title is concerned that it bothers me. It is called the middleweight championship not the middleweight catchweight championship. Why didn't Cotto fight Pacquaio again at catchweight? He said I'm not going to do that again to give the other fighter an advantage.
Roach is the catchweight king and is destroying legacies. His guys could fight at lower weights and still get kudos for their fighting. People that back Cotto say he has fought better fighters than GGG which is true but if that is so why doesn't Cotto just out and out say, if that is any kind of proof that he is better, to which I disagree, I'll fight and beat this guy? Why? Because he knows that GGG is no joke. I'm picking Canelo to win because Cotto is stylistically made for him. Looking forward to that one. Let's see what the catchweight game will be in this one.

Good real post - as alway from you Dave. Roach, doing and/or being complicit with catch weights in this manner, is one reason why he is a popular with some promoters. Roach knows how to almost completely guarantee the outcome of a fight. Catch weights have not been used quite so like how they are these days, and particularly the way Freddie seems to regularly employ them; with/against; Pac, Oscar, Cotto, Margarito, Geale, and also a few other Pacquaio opponents. For your 1st Middleweight title defence to - just before the fight - make a guy (even possibly) swing between 25 pounds, and then expect you will find a decent opponent in him come fight night, is - even if you ignore the fact that there are many more weight divisions these days (which further reduces the need for catch weights and their comparison to how they may have been used and agreed upon in the old days of boxing) - simply outrageous. Cotto has done nothing here to impress me. I am sure Roc Nation is impressed though. None of this (hopefully) means that Cotto will not - later in his career - go back to doing the right thing, impress, and continue to be the brilliant and entertaining boxer he can be. We should call this fight "Cotto's catchweight thank you gift to Roc Nation fight". :) :) :)

-gibola :

Agree with DaveB - I don't have a problem with non-title catchweight fights, I know the history, I enjoy them if they help make good fights, you sign the contract and take the money then you should make the agreed weight. Where I have a problem is with calling this a middleweight title fight. If the middleweight champion doesn't allow his opponent to weigh 160 then it's not for the middleweight title and he's not the middleweight champ as far as I'm concerned. Just think of the implications/anarchy if champions are allowed to set the weight limit for their sanctioned title fights? What would be the point of weight divisions? Where would that leave the sport? Great performance from Cotto, but he should abdicate his middleweight titles if his opponents aren't going to be allowed to come into the ring as middleweights. As mentioned elsewhere on the thread, he would have beaten Geale at 160 so what did it achieve? I see it as another chip away at the traditions of a sport that are important to me as a fan but that some fighters, sanctioning bodies and TV companies couldn't seem to care less about. We've already seen with alarm the growing trend of fighters failing to make weight in recent years - get ready for mayhem if the weight classes are allowed to melt away both in title and non-title fights. It won't be about who's the better fighter it'll be about who wields the power to make their opponent come in weakest. Every weight negotiable. Every chance of fighters signing up for weights they can't perform at. We'll end up with stuff like Broner v Porter at 144? Oh we already have. What will a Broner win prove exactly?

-StormCentre :

Agree with DaveB - I don't have a problem with non-title catchweight fights, I know the history, I enjoy them if they help make good fights, you sign the contract and take the money then you should make the agreed weight. Where I have a problem is with calling this a middleweight title fight. If the middleweight champion doesn't allow his opponent to weigh 160 then it's not for the middleweight title and he's not the middleweight champ as far as I'm concerned. Just think of the implications/anarchy if champions are allowed to set the weight limit for their sanctioned title fights? What would be the point of weight divisions? Where would that leave the sport? Great performance from Cotto, but he should abdicate his middleweight titles if his opponents aren't going to be allowed to come into the ring as middleweights. As mentioned elsewhere on the thread, he would have beaten Geale at 160 so what did it achieve? I see it as another chip away at the traditions of a sport that are important to me as a fan but that some fighters, sanctioning bodies and TV companies couldn't seem to care less about. We've already seen with alarm the growing trend of fighters failing to make weight in recent years - get ready for mayhem if the weight classes are allowed to melt away both in title and non-title fights. It won't be about who's the better fighter it'll be about who wields the power to make their opponent come in weakest. Every weight negotiable. Every chance of fighters signing up for weights they can't perform at. We'll end up with stuff like Broner v Porter at 144? Oh we already have. What will a Broner win prove exactly?

Well said Gibola. Especially, ""it won't be about who's the better fighter it'll be about who wields the power to make their opponent come in weakest. Every weight negotiable"". The only thing is . . I think we're there now. A few other observations with the fight; 1) The first KD (either the one that finished things in round 4, or the very first KD) involved Cotto throwing a right rip to the body - then the fighter's heads clashed - then Cotto's left hook landed. Nothing was said/done about the seemingly accidental head-butt. 2) The Cotto hook that did all the damage was a supinated hook. 3) Roach cleared out of the ring pretty fast, almost immediately, after, both; the fight's conclusion was known and to avoid questions about catch-weights. I have never seen Freddie get out of the ring that quickly after 1 of his fighters won. Looking forward to a sanction that makes inroads on the boxings' epidemic of catchweight bouts, particularly in relation to title defences. The advantages to be found in careful manipulation of your opponent's weight, strength and stamina - which is usually the objective for those dictating catchweight bouts - can outweigh the advantages associated with EPO and/or other PED use. My understanding is that Cotto, JayZ and Roach fished around quite a lot for opponents that would accept a decent weight and/or purse cut, and Geale was the only one that did. Finally, probably doesn't matter now - but it was surely a consideration before the fight as the catchweight clause stands testament to - in my opinion the Geale that beat Strum (and Strum himself) would, if not beat Cotto, give him serious troubles for all 12 rounds. Which is probably why Miguel was a little hesitant to answer Max's question about facing Gennady after the fight and during the post fight interview. :)

-amayseng :

Agree with DaveB - I don't have a problem with non-title catchweight fights, I know the history, I enjoy them if they help make good fights, you sign the contract and take the money then you should make the agreed weight. Where I have a problem is with calling this a middleweight title fight. If the middleweight champion doesn't allow his opponent to weigh 160 then it's not for the middleweight title and he's not the middleweight champ as far as I'm concerned. Just think of the implications/anarchy if champions are allowed to set the weight limit for their sanctioned title fights? What would be the point of weight divisions? Where would that leave the sport? Great performance from Cotto, but he should abdicate his middleweight titles if his opponents aren't going to be allowed to come into the ring as middleweights. As mentioned elsewhere on the thread, he would have beaten Geale at 160 so what did it achieve? I see it as another chip away at the traditions of a sport that are important to me as a fan but that some fighters, sanctioning bodies and TV companies couldn't seem to care less about. We've already seen with alarm the growing trend of fighters failing to make weight in recent years - get ready for mayhem if the weight classes are allowed to melt away both in title and non-title fights.
It won't be about who's the better fighter it'll be about who wields the power to make their opponent come in weakest. Every weight negotiable. Every chance of fighters signing up for weights they can't perform at. We'll end up with stuff like Broner v Porter at 144? Oh we already have. What will a Broner win prove exactly?

I agree 100%. Very well put.

-mortcola :

Just one factoid, if no one mentioned it yet: When Kellerman listed the weights Cotto has fought at and asked where he stands as a middleweight, Cotto cleverly listed a bunch of low-mid 150 numbers, smiled then said to Max: “Do I sound like a middleweight to you?"

-Pazuzu :

Just one factoid, if no one mentioned it yet: When Kellerman listed the weights Cotto has fought at and asked where he stands as a middleweight, Cotto cleverly listed a bunch of low-mid 150 numbers, smiled then said to Max: ?Do I sound like a middleweight to you?"

Yeah, I caught that as well. Interesting response, given that someone was holding up the WBC middleweight strap right behind him when he said it.

-Chris L :

It seems like to often in boxing (pretty much after 90% of fights that happen) the trend is to say 'fighter A beat fighter B because of X'. X can be, but is not limited to: bad hands, doping, bad knees, too many wars, not in prime, not the same fighter that they were 2 months ago, too little time to prepare, weight, X is a bum who didn't belong etc. Rarely do I see a fighter given his dues. Yeah I agree the catchweight in a middleweight title fight is ridiculous. But all things aside lets see the fight for what it was; a good performance from Cotto.

-Radam G :

Agree with DaveB - I don't have a problem with non-title catchweight fights, I know the history, I enjoy them if they help make good fights, you sign the contract and take the money then you should make the agreed weight. Where I have a problem is with calling this a middleweight title fight. If the middleweight champion doesn't allow his opponent to weigh 160 then it's not for the middleweight title and he's not the middleweight champ as far as I'm concerned. Just think of the implications/anarchy if champions are allowed to set the weight limit for their sanctioned title fights? What would be the point of weight divisions? Where would that leave the sport? Great performance from Cotto, but he should abdicate his middleweight titles if his opponents aren't going to be allowed to come into the ring as middleweights. As mentioned elsewhere on the thread, he would have beaten Geale at 160 so what did it achieve? I see it as another chip away at the traditions of a sport that are important to me as a fan but that some fighters, sanctioning bodies and TV companies couldn't seem to care less about. We've already seen with alarm the growing trend of fighters failing to make weight in recent years - get ready for mayhem if the weight classes are allowed to melt away both in title and non-title fights. It won't be about who's the better fighter it'll be about who wields the power to make their opponent come in weakest. Every weight negotiable. Every chance of fighters signing up for weights they can't perform at. We'll end up with stuff like Broner v Porter at 144? Oh we already have. What will a Broner win prove exactly?

You are rejecting that middleweight is anything below 160lbs. I can respect that. But da game has never been played that way. Back in da day, not just nowadays, a small champ would make his opponents come in small. Holla!

-StormCentre :

Back in that "da day" there were greater weight bands per weight division, (in some cases 3 of today's weight divisions equaled one of theirs). So asking someone to come down, closer, to the lower threshold of that division that the fight was being contested in may have then been considered appropriate. Perhaps some are probably forgetting that when/if this was done back then, it was rarely - if at all - done; A) For a championship contest. B) In such a manner where the weight the opponent must come in at is less than the weight that the fight is officially contested at. C) For a champion's first title defence All of which ("A", "B", & "C") Cotto did on the weekend. Here's some more naughty facts . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21470-Cotto-Drops-Hammers-In-Round-Four-Blasts-Out-Geale-in-Brooklyn&p=83597&viewfull=1#post83597
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21431-Golovkin-Will-Know-Next-Better-After-Cotto-Geale&p=83525&viewfull=1#post83525
->http://www.boxingscene.com/cotto-geale-three-pounds-heavy-issue--91904 Hee Haw. :) :) :)

-gibola :

We could have Cotto making unlimited WBC middleweight defences at 155 if he chose? Why not? The WBC, HBO will legitimise it. Amir Khan could win a post-Floyd welterweight title and make all his defences at 143? His box-office power could mean he tells Kell Brook he'll take the IBF title fight but only at 144 (which would absolutely kill Kell if he could even get near it). The sport has enough problems already and just when it is getting more exposure we have this nonsense to deal with. Oh well, that the fight game I suppose.

-DaveB :

If there are two fighters that want to get it on and fighter 1 weighs less than fighter 2 and both come to a fair compromise that is fine. It should be a non-title bout though. Not only that each fighter should have sufficient time to get to their target weight. So let's say the two men do agree to fight. It is June and the fight is okayed for October or November so that both men get to put on or take off the weight in the right way, that is as fair as you can make it. One man might still dominate at the agreed upon catch-weight but that has to be accepted if it occurs. However the way it is done nowadays is for the A side of the promotion to dictate what the weight will be and when the fight will take place. Being that it is now June, he will state that he needs an opponent for the end of July or beginning of August. The A fighter is probably close to the weight he wants and may even be engaging in light training. The B fighter has to take what he is given, blunting his chances of getting into proper shape or keeping his power, assuring he will lose the fight. Who can blame fighter B for taking the fight when it is multiples of what he has ever made or possibly ever will make and it is a "title opportunity" that he cant pass up? He has bills, expenses and a family to feed. It really is a sad state of affairs and is rather distasteful but that is what boxing has become. I feel the same way when fighters agree to a contracted weight and make no effort to achieve it because once again they are the A side and will just pay the penalty to cheat and get the win. This is to their long term advantage. Or their is no penalty and the other fighter can take it or leave it. In either case the B fighter will most likely take the fight and almost get beat to death. I have to respect his right to make a living. Once again very sad.

-StormCentre :

If there are two fighters that want to get it on and fighter 1 weighs less than fighter 2 and both come to a fair compromise that is fine. It should be a non-title bout though. Not only that each fighter should have sufficient time to get to their target weight. So let's say the two men do agree to fight. It is June and the fight is okayed for October or November so that both men get to put on or take off the weight in the right way, that is as fair as you can make it. One man might still dominate at the agreed upon catch-weight but that has to be accepted if it occurs. However the way it is done nowadays is for the A side of the promotion to dictate what the weight will be and when the fight will take place. Being that it is now June, he will state that he needs an opponent for the end of July or beginning of August. The A fighter is probably close to the weight he wants and may even be engaging in light training. The B fighter has to take what he is given, blunting his chances of getting into proper shape or keeping his power, assuring he will lose the fight. Who can blame fighter B for taking the fight when it is multiples of what he has ever made or possibly ever will make and it is a "title opportunity" that he cant pass up? He has bills, expenses and a family to feed. It really is a sad state of affairs and is rather distasteful but that is what boxing has become. I feel the same way when fighters agree to a contracted weight and make no effort to achieve it because once again they are the A side and will just pay the penalty to cheat and get the win. This is to their long term advantage. Or their is no penalty and the other fighter can take it or leave it. In either case the B fighter will most likely take the fight and almost get beat to death. I have to respect his right to make a living. Once again very sad.

Yep - within reason - I'd agree to that Dave. No catch-weights for championship bouts. And set a threshold on the weight lost/gained before and after a weigh in; are good starts. Other than that - so long as the dangers . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21484-LOTIERZO-LOWDOWN-Cotto-Beat-An-Empty-Package-in-Geale&p=83719&viewfull=1#post83719 . . . Are known and always stated (no matter how many times they have been told before; think safety show on a plane just before take off); let them smash their heads whilst they're low on cerebral fluids, dehydrated and/or poorly rehydrated, and diminished in other athletic ways - if they must increase the risks of boxing (in that way) beyond what they already are. :) :) :)

-Radam G :

If there are two fighters that want to get it on and fighter 1 weighs less than fighter 2 and both come to a fair compromise that is fine. It should be a non-title bout though. Not only that each fighter should have sufficient time to get to their target weight. So let's say the two men do agree to fight. It is June and the fight is okayed for October or November so that both men get to put on or take off the weight in the right way, that is as fair as you can make it. One man might still dominate at the agreed upon catch-weight but that has to be accepted if it occurs. However the way it is done nowadays is for the A side of the promotion to dictate what the weight will be and when the fight will take place. Being that it is now June, he will state that he needs an opponent for the end of July or beginning of August. The A fighter is probably close to the weight he wants and may even be engaging in light training. The B fighter has to take what he is given, blunting his chances of getting into proper shape or keeping his power, assuring he will lose the fight. Who can blame fighter B for taking the fight when it is multiples of what he has ever made or possibly ever will make and it is a "title opportunity" that he cant pass up? He has bills, expenses and a family to feed. It really is a sad state of affairs and is rather distasteful but that is what boxing has become. I feel the same way when fighters agree to a contracted weight and make no effort to achieve it because once again they are the A side and will just pay the penalty to cheat and get the win. This is to their long term advantage. Or their is no penalty and the other fighter can take it or leave it. In either case the B fighter will most likely take the fight and almost get beat to death. I have to respect his right to make a living. Once again very sad.

The game is like life -- an unfair bytch. And you just have to play the hand that you are dealt. Or you can do nothing. And in return, you will get nothing. Holla!

-Radam G :

If there are two fighters that want to get it on and fighter 1 weighs less than fighter 2 and both come to a fair compromise that is fine. It should be a non-title bout though. Not only that each fighter should have sufficient time to get to their target weight. So let's say the two men do agree to fight. It is June and the fight is okayed for October or November so that both men get to put on or take off the weight in the right way, that is as fair as you can make it. One man might still dominate at the agreed upon catch-weight but that has to be accepted if it occurs. However the way it is done nowadays is for the A side of the promotion to dictate what the weight will be and when the fight will take place. Being that it is now June, he will state that he needs an opponent for the end of July or beginning of August. The A fighter is probably close to the weight he wants and may even be engaging in light training. The B fighter has to take what he is given, blunting his chances of getting into proper shape or keeping his power, assuring he will lose the fight. Who can blame fighter B for taking the fight when it is multiples of what he has ever made or possibly ever will make and it is a "title opportunity" that he cant pass up? He has bills, expenses and a family to feed. It really is a sad state of affairs and is rather distasteful but that is what boxing has become. I feel the same way when fighters agree to a contracted weight and make no effort to achieve it because once again they are the A side and will just pay the penalty to cheat and get the win. This is to their long term advantage. Or their is no penalty and the other fighter can take it or leave it. In either case the B fighter will most likely take the fight and almost get beat to death. I have to respect his right to make a living. Once again very sad.

The game is like life -- an unfair bytch. And you just have to play the hand that you are dealt. Or you can do nothing. And in return, you will get nothing. Holla!

-StormCentre :

And naturally - if you're already brain dead and/or a few sausages short of a BBQ, then treating your brain, mind, body, and family, in a completely careless manner as above described . . where ""you play the hand your dealt with"" when it comes to fighting whilst dehydrated - will be of no concern to you. As will the consequences. However, that said, I don't know about you, but neither Gerald McCLellan's family nor himself seems very happy with the "play the hand your dealt with" philosophy.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21484-LOTIERZO-LOWDOWN-Cotto-Beat-An-Empty-Package-in-Geale&p=83719&viewfull=1#post83719 And that's probably because no sport or amount of money is worth being physically and mentally impaired for; let alone dying. But, then, if your starting point is the IQ of an amoeba and you know very little of what you preach, then these things are not only probably of no concern to you - but may even constitute an improvement. What really needs to happen - as with all dangerous aspects of culturally accepted trends - is more awareness and education on what really happens when fighters; A) Not only; dehydrate and then quickly (attempt to) rehydrate, before fights. B) But also; try to fight, box and compete at the same performance level they may be used to after "A". Boxing 12 rounds with little or no cerebral and other fluids in/around your blood and brain is not a game of life. It's an unnecessary and additional extra risk, on top of what is already a dangerous activity that is itself - at the end of the day - a sport. And as a sport, it doesn't really need to be any more life and death (threatening) than it already is. Furthermore, it is only the fact that, in boxing; 1) It is considered macho to dismiss dangers. 2) Uncool to not accept a challenge - particularly when you have a group of others beyond your own family depending on you for food and income. 3) Most fighters and also those within the group of others beyond their own family depending on them for food and income, do not really understand the risks and dangers of serious dehydration/rehydration. Because if it were not for these factors, most (or more) trainers, managers, and fighters would most likely turn away from the proposal that Roach and Cotto put on the table (as did several before Geale's team took the bait). In my opinion, these are the reasons Roach - like a rat up a drainpipe - jumped out of the ring as soon as the decision was clear. He wanted no part of any discussion about catch-weights and their dangers. In fact even Cotto struggled with that . . . . . And of course questions about defending the middleweight title against legitimate middleweights, such as Gennady Golovkin.

-StormCentre :

And naturally - if you're already brain dead and/or a few sausages short of a BBQ, then treating your brain, mind, body, and family, in a completely careless manner as above described . . where ""you play the hand your dealt with"" when it comes to fighting whilst dehydrated - will be of no concern to you. As will the consequences. However, that said, I don't know about you, but neither Gerald McCLellan's family nor himself seems very happy with the "play the hand your dealt with" philosophy.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21484-LOTIERZO-LOWDOWN-Cotto-Beat-An-Empty-Package-in-Geale&p=83719&viewfull=1#post83719 And that's probably because no sport or amount of money is worth being physically and mentally impaired for; let alone dying. But, then, if your starting point is the IQ of an amoeba and you know very little of what you preach, then these things are not only probably of no concern to you - but may even constitute an improvement. What really needs to happen - as with all dangerous aspects of culturally accepted trends - is more awareness and education on what really happens when fighters; A) Not only; dehydrate and then quickly (attempt to) rehydrate, before fights. B) But also; try to fight, box and compete at the same performance level they may be used to after "A". Boxing 12 rounds with little or no cerebral and other fluids in/around your blood and brain is not a game of life. It's an unnecessary and additional extra risk, on top of what is already a dangerous activity that is itself - at the end of the day - a sport. And as a sport, it doesn't really need to be any more life (threatening) and death (inducing) than it already is. Furthermore, it is only the fact that, in boxing; 1) It is considered macho to dismiss dangers. 2) Uncool to not accept a challenge - particularly when you have a group of others beyond your own family depending on you for food and income. 3) Most fighters and also those within the group of others beyond their own family depending on them for food and income, do not really understand the risks and dangers of serious dehydration/rehydration. That actually ensures dehydration fighting contracts and practices that place one fighter at a severe and dangerous disadvantage - such as those we discuss and debate - are still not considered totally unacceptable. Because if it were not for these factors, most (or more) trainers, managers, and fighters would most likely turn away from the proposal that Roach and Cotto put on the table (as did several teams before Geale's team finally took the bait; that ensured any disadvantage they didn't have was introduced with certainty). Roach and Cotto did not shop around with, and ask for a catch-weight title defence, because it did not place their TBA opponent in a compromised position. Catch-weights are boxings' WildCard and/or their "get out of jail free" card. Such is the disadvantage that they place the intended target, those that pitch the (unreasonable and dangerous) terms can almost always be guaranteed to be presented with; A) An opponent that possesses; diminished punch resistance, diminished stamina, diminished coordination, diminished cerebral fluids, increased potential for blood clots (even when not being hit in the head), diminished balance, and diminished cardiovascular function. B) A win. In my opinion, these are the reasons Roach - like a rat up a drainpipe - jumped out of the ring as soon as the decision was clear. He (in his condition) wanted no part of any discussion about catch-weights and their dangers (or how he himself, from his own personal experiences, clearly has not learned of the dangers of boxing; enough to consider another fighter's health and safety over a sporting triumph and payday). In fact, once the post fight and/or victory interview started rolling, even Cotto struggled with discussion and/or questions about catch-weights . . . . . And of course questions about defending the middleweight title against "legitimate" middleweights. Middleweights, such as Gennady Golovkin. Ah, well - unlike Tidal - at least this Jay Z investment is developing a return. For the moment anyway. :)

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