Maybe IT IS Time For Floyd To Lose!?

OK, straight up, I think the guy who has not one loss on his resume will win May 2. Nothing ground-breaking about that prediction. I think Floyd Mayweathers’ ability to dissect a foe, make him pay for being off balance, catching him in bteween shots, his majestic reflexes, his uncanny innate ability to sense when a punch is coming, I think all this stuff makes “Money” a 5 to 1 favorite in my own mental sports book come May 2.

But…

But I’m kicking those odds to down to 3.5 to 1 after hearing Manny’s convicted talk about why he thinks, no, KNOWS he will beat Floyd at the MGM.

“I have to be a warrior in the ring on May 2 and fight like it is the last fight of my life. I need to fight every round like each one is the last round of my life. For the past five years this is the fight I have dreamed of and prayed for. And now that this fight is a reality I am going to prove that it was worth the wait.”

Like it…Like the acknowledgement that this one is different, for the whole enchilada, and a side of sauce..

“The strategy is to make every round the fight,” Manny continued. “To win the fight I must win each round. And to win each round I must overwhelm him with speed, punch volume and power. If the opportunity to knock Floyd out presents itself, I will take advantage of it.”

Oh mercy, the resounding roars which will be heard in the heavens if that happens…

“I know what it will take to beat Floyd and I will leave no doubt that I won on May 2. None. That is the ‘Manny Pacquiao’ Floyd will face on May 2. It is time for Floyd to lose.”

Hmmm….”None,” huh.

Call me a sucker, but my personal sports-book just kicked the odds to 3 to 1 in favor of Floyd.

Maybe it is time for Floyd to lose?

Follow Woods on Instagram. https://instagram.com/woodsy1069/

WATCH RELATED VIDEOS ON BOXINGCHANNEL.TV

COMMENTS

-Brad :

Those odds may tumble even more if you read what Mayweather is saying. He's saying his love for the game is gone, he's a basically a business man now. He goes to the gym because it's his job,etc. Mayweather talks of money and how he got what he wanted in negotiations while Manny talks about winning this fight. His approach to this fight is what amounts to a religious fervor (as Howard Cosell use to describe Duran's approach to Leonard). Manny has to win. Floyd will tell you he already HAS won. It makes sense that Mayweather wins, but I'm less sure every day.


-oubobcat :

My heart says Pacquiao but head says Mayweather. Its a tough stylistic match up for the Pac Man. He had all kinds of problems with Marquez's counter punching abilities. And Mayweather is a better counter puncher and obviously much much fast than Marquez. But in this sport, you never know. Neither man has faced anyone in the ring as a pro with the hand speed and quickness the other possesses. I really hope Pacquiao wins.


-Radam G :

In a week, five days and awake, Money May's winning streak goes AWOL -- absence without leave. His legs have already gone over the wall. And he will not be able to find them on the night in question. And up some miracle, he will not be able to call. Dude has already choked. Now in dat squared jungle, he is going to get smoked. Haters and posers love to say that if Da Manny didn't beat Hulkquez, how is he going to beat Mayweather who easily beat Marquez? In the first place, Da Manny kicked Marquez's three times straight times. The judge in the first scrap apologized for getting the knockdowns wrong. In Fight Four, Hulkquez showed up full of dat syet that Dr. Roidstein, aka falling Angel Heredia fed da Bionic-reaching-bytch Marquez. Da Manny got careless against Hulkquez and paid the price. Now Da Manny knows what time it is, and is going to put bad-legged Floydulk on ice. Da May FAM, The Money Team, Mayweather's Promotions and tsAH ought to get da double fudge outta Sin City. They should be in the hood of a conning Oz. There is nothing magical or enchanted about them. Somewhere over the rainbow -- my little high yellow-brown arse. Floydulk is going to get double fudged up. And Dorothy would have the Scarecrow, the Tin Man and The Cowardly Lion to knock Money May's arse off the Yellow Brick Road, and f*** him, up while her dog Toto bite da hebejeebeez out ta his bytch arse.
->http://ringobserver.com/articles/floyd-mayweather-and-the-wizard-of-oz-two-illusions. Don't even let me get to the Wicked Witch of the West. Big Nate -- Money May's human punching bag -- would steal her broom and use the Wizard Oz's humbug fire to cook up some Buffalo Wings. TMT CEO Leonard Ellerbe would make all the Munchkin women into strippers and hos. Since ______ ______s bullsyet with what Money May is going to do to Da Manny because such and such did dis and dat and the whole nine, here is one for you: Da Manny is going to easily knock out Money May, because Money May just got a bronze medal, but Big Money O got a gold medal. And Da Manny destroyed him. Now how does that sound? Stupid as syet. Most of the Floydykes and Flomos up in here won't catch on to that. Hehe! _____ ______.______ hateful dimwits and super slowwits. It is just a scrap. Can't we all get along? Holla!


-Radam G :

Holla again at how Big Floyd feels about Alex Ariza double fudging with his son:
->http://www.rappler.com/sports/by-sports/boxing-mma/pacquiao/90563-mayweather-sr-blasts-ariza. There is mad chaos and attempts at magic going on in Camp Mayweather. After Da Manny break the Mayvinci Code and Lil Floydulk's ribs, eye sockets and jaw, Ariza will be the fall guy to blame. Money May's legs are tore up. Water work are making them worse. And in this modern time of electronic surveillance, don't act like we don't see da haps in Camp Mayweather. Camp Mayweather should all dress in black. And call a hearse. The death of his undefeated records will not escape. But at least, for the loser, he will have the all-time biggest purse. Holla!


-Radam G :

Holla the three peons -- I mean the three Mayweather trainers/brothers.
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bdzgy0uGWDU. Holla!


-Radam G :

The Big dawg C&S coach from from Down Under calls it as he sees and knows it:
->http://www.philboxing.com/news/story-106724.html. Lil Floydulk - full of dat syet, but with those dead legs -- is in for a severe arse thrashing and hellish shellacking. From every angle, Da Manny will be attacking. Holla!


-DaveB :

Some how the way these negotiations went makes me feel that Mayweather really didn't want this fight. I mean the person who cares the least is the one who usually wins in a negotiation because they are willing to leave the table for good. Almost every fighter I know past or present would not have taken the chance that this fight could have gotten away. Something in Mayweather seemed like he was okay that might happen. People say Mayweather got everything he wanted and he always knew he would get it in the end. However he was willing to pass on this fight and it is only because Pacquaio's willingness to bend over backward to give him everything he wanted that got this fight made. Something about that attitude on Mayweather's part bothers me. Now will he get something he doesn't want?


-Radam G :

Some how the way these negotiations went makes me feel that Mayweather really didn't want this fight. I mean the person who cares the least is the one who usually wins in a negotiation because they are willing to leave the table for good. Almost every fighter I know past or present would not have taken the chance that this fight could have gotten away. Something in Mayweather seemed like he was okay that might happen. People say Mayweather got everything he wanted and he always knew he would get it in the end. However he was willing to pass on this fight and it is only because Pacquaio's willingness to bend over backward to give him everything he wanted that got this fight made. Something about that attitude on Mayweather's part bothers me. Now will he get something he doesn't want?
YUP! Money May says that he badly wants to win this bout like no other. But dude is mistake prone. And Da Manny will expose and will expose it all. Everything hidden eventually comes to the light. Money May has lost his legs, so you will see his umpteen flaws. He no longer has the speed of foot to hide behind and between his sloppy joe pugging. No he is going to try to be hugging. Da Manny mitts are going to recklessly find him like reckless but perfect radar. Watch your big mouth, Money May. You will lose and live to see the beautifulness of the "very reckless" reckless [sic] PacMan. You will be clapping for him like Apollo Creed did Rocky Balboa. Holla!


-brownsugar :

Those odds may tumble even more if you read what Mayweather is saying. He's saying his love for the game is gone, he's a basically a business man now. He goes to the gym because it's his job,etc. Mayweather talks of money and how he got what he wanted in negotiations while Manny talks about winning this fight. His approach to this fight is what amounts to a religious fervor (as Howard Cosell use to describe Duran's approach to Leonard). Manny has to win. Floyd will tell you he already HAS won. It makes sense that Mayweather wins, but I'm less sure every day.
It's a bit disheartening to hear Floyd talk of leaving the game. But he also said he was going to fulfill his contract by fighting again in september. Bare none, Mayweather is the most professional fighter in boxing. He shows up in top shape and completes each match regardless of injuries or whether or not he's even interested in the fight. Like all athletes he sells his health and youth to provide public entertainment in exchange for wealth... like a $20.00 a date hooker who goes to work everyday with a grudge,..... except Floyd places a much higher premium on the parts of himself that he leaves in the ring... He does it inspite of broken hands, repeated fouls, or booing crowds and he makes sure he gets compensated at an acceptable rate. It's funny how Team Pacquiao says they're going punish Floyd for his many crimes and Extract retribution for his numerous sins through the platform of a televised and sanctioned sporting event. Thereby condemning Mayweather to publically serve the maximum corporeal punishment as determined by and meted out through the sanctified fists of da all holy Manny. And after the fight with Manny. And after Pac's righteous anger has been dispensed, the magnamimous one will dispence his wisdom in a final act of mercy and redemption upon the fallen Mayweather by leading him to Christ. Maybe.....but.... You don't have to worry about Mayweather's salvation... He's got a praying grandmother and many saved and sanctfied relatives and friends. Its not the perfect people Jesus has come for.... it's the sick.....the flawed who get his attention. Could it be that God is not done with Floyd yet? Regarding Floyd's body breaking down. We are all breaking down little by little....and Floyd (and Manny) are no exception. It's the reason Floyd retired after Del la Hoya, ...along with his desire to get away from the sport. He needed a break. Which is also the reason Floyd has converted to a more defensive style. Floyd's wanted to quit boxing for the last eight years. He said he can't wait for his successor to arrive. But he trudges on ......through it all for the prize. It is a job. ....But he knows he only has to punch the clock in two more times in 2015. How invigorating is it to know that you only have to punch your time card for a total of 98 minutes (including between rounds time) before you can say hello to the long 3 day weekend.


-stormcentre :

Maybe it is time for Floyd to lose. All these new and unique conversations/posts to ourselves, "surely", must mean something real. Floyd is playing media and other games again, and as he usually does; it gets some cats pulled into the "energy" stream. Others chase their tail around a tree. Still, whatever tickles your fancy.


-stormcentre :

It's a bit disheartening to hear Floyd talk of leaving the game. But he also said he was going to fulfill his contract by fighting again in september. Bare none, Mayweather is the most professional fighter in boxing. He shows up in top shape and completes each match regardless of injuries or whether or not he's even interested in the fight. Like all athletes he sells his health and youth to provide public entertainment in exchange for wealth... like a $20.00 a date hooker who goes to work everyday with a grudge,..... except Floyd places a much higher premium on the parts of himself that he leaves in the ring... He does it inspite of broken hands, repeated fouls, or booing crowds and he makes sure he gets compensated at an acceptable rate. It's funny how Team Pacquiao says they're going punish Floyd for his many crimes and Extract retribution for his numerous sins through the platform of a televised and sanctioned sporting event. Thereby condemning Mayweather to publically serve the maximum corporeal punishment as determined by and meted out through the sanctified fists of da all holy Manny. And after the fight with Manny. And after Pac's righteous anger has been dispensed, the magnamimous one will dispence his wisdom in a final act of mercy and redemption upon the fallen Mayweather by leading him to Christ. Maybe.....but.... You don't have to worry about Mayweather's salvation... He's got a praying grandmother and many saved and sanctfied relatives and friends. Its not the perfect people Jesus has come for.... it's the sick.....the flawed who get his attention. Could it be that God is not done with Floyd yet? Regarding Floyd's body breaking down. We are all breaking down little by little....and Floyd (and Manny) are no exception. It's the reason Floyd retired after Del la Hoya, ...along with his desire to get away from the sport. He needed a break. Which is also the reason Floyd has converted to a more defensive style. Floyd's wanted to quit boxing for the last eight years. He said he can't wait for his successor to arrive. But he trudges on ......through it all for the prize. It is a job. ....But he knows he only has to punch the clock in two more times in 2015. How invigorating is it to know that you only have to punch your time card for a total of 98 minutes (including between rounds time) before you can say hello to the long 3 day weekend.
Spot on.


-HeNeverSawTheHookComing! :

It's a bit disheartening to hear Floyd talk of leaving the game. But he also said he was going to fulfill his contract by fighting again in september. Bare none, Mayweather is the most professional fighter in boxing. He shows up in top shape and completes each match regardless of injuries or whether or not he's even interested in the fight. Like all athletes he sells his health and youth to provide public entertainment in exchange for wealth... like a $20.00 a date hooker who goes to work everyday with a grudge,..... except Floyd places a much higher premium on the parts of himself that he leaves in the ring... He does it inspite of broken hands, repeated fouls, or booing crowds and he makes sure he gets compensated at an acceptable rate. It's funny how Team Pacquiao says they're going punish Floyd for his many crimes and Extract retribution for his numerous sins through the platform of a televised and sanctioned sporting event. Thereby condemning Mayweather to publically serve the maximum corporeal punishment as determined by and meted out through the sanctified fists of da all holy Manny. And after the fight with Manny. And after Pac's righteous anger has been dispensed, the magnamimous one will dispence his wisdom in a final act of mercy and redemption upon the fallen Mayweather by leading him to Christ. Maybe.....but.... You don't have to worry about Mayweather's salvation... He's got a praying grandmother and many saved and sanctfied relatives and friends. Its not the perfect people Jesus has come for.... it's the sick.....the flawed who get his attention. Could it be that God is not done with Floyd yet? Regarding Floyd's body breaking down. We are all breaking down little by little....and Floyd (and Manny) are no exception. It's the reason Floyd retired after Del la Hoya, ...along with his desire to get away from the sport. He needed a break. Which is also the reason Floyd has converted to a more defensive style. Floyd's wanted to quit boxing for the last eight years. He said he can't wait for his successor to arrive. But he trudges on ......through it all for the prize. It is a job. ....But he knows he only has to punch the clock in two more times in 2015. How invigorating is it to know that you only have to punch your time card for a total of 98 minutes (including between rounds time) before you can say hello to the long 3 day weekend.
Great Job, BS Great job.


-brownsugar :

Thanks guys..... While I'm on the subject, I'm reminded of the last fight "Between Good and Evil" that played out in the venue of a boxing ring. Holyfield vs Tyson #1. I won't go in depth because a true description of the epic event has enough content to warrant the commission of a short book. You will not find a more theologically divided superfight in history. What i remembered most is listening to Holyfield responding to questions from the press regarding threats from Mike Tyson who said he hated Holyfield and was going to make him pay by administering a vicious beatdown to the evangelizing boxer on fightnight. To paraphrase ....the reporter said: " You know Tyson doesn't like you and he's saying that he's angry at you and is going to really beat you up in the ring". Holyfield chuckled and said " we're boxers, it doesn't matter, we're going to fight anyway.... its our job to hurt each other in the ring....so what do I care about Tyson telling people that he wants to fight me in a boxing match?" It took about 15 seconds for that revelation to sink into the reporters mind and his whole expression changed once he comprehended the meaning of Holyfields words... the intense anxiety seemed to fade from his face and his worried grimace bloomed into a smile...."I guess your right Holy" the reporter said as they both shared another chuckle at what Evander had just said. There won't be any burning torches ...pitchforks ....... huge vats of burning oil will unfortunately not be present ringside for the MayPac fight... and after the fight neither boxer is going to be cast into the fires of hell. I don't even know if God will be applauding but i do know the history books will record a winner and the fight game can move on without suffering the regret of never knowing what the outcome will be. Enjoy the fight.


-stormcentre :

Thanks guys..... While I'm on the subject, I'm reminded of the last fight "Between Good and Evil" that played out in the venue of a boxing ring. Holyfield vs Tyson #1. I won't go in depth because a true description of the epic event has enough content to warrant the commission of a short book. You will not find a more theologically divided superfight in history. What i remembered most is listening to Holyfield responding to questions from the press regarding threats from Mike Tyson who said he hated Holyfield and was going to make him pay by administering a vicious beatdown to the evangelizing boxer on fightnight. To paraphrase ....the reporter said: " You know Tyson doesn't like you and he's saying that he's angry at you and is going to really beat you up in the ring". Holyfield chuckled and said " we're boxers, it doesn't matter, we're going to fight anyway.... its our job to hurt each other in the ring....so what do I care about Tyson telling people that he wants to fight me in a boxing match?" It took about 15 seconds for that revelation to sink into the reporters mind and his whole expression changed once he comprehended the meaning of Holyfields words... the intense anxiety seemed to fade from his face and his worried grimace bloomed into a smile...."I guess your right Holy" the reporter said as they both shared another chuckle at what Evander had just said. There won't be any burning torches ...pitchforks ....... huge vats of burning oil will unfortunately not be present ringside for the MayPac fight... and after the fight neither boxer is going to be cast into the fires of hell. I don't even know if God will be applauding but i do know the history books will record a winner and the fight game can move on without suffering the regret of never knowing what the outcome will be. Enjoy the fight.
Lovely - just lovely. Especially the . . . . . Holyfield chuckled and said . . . ""we're boxers, it doesn't matter, we're going to fight anyway.... its our job to hurt each other in the ring....so what do I care about Tyson telling people that he wants to fight me in a boxing match"". Bit. I think I remember that line from Evander. I was superbly apt and fitting. Stopped the majority of the verbal and reporting crap right there and then. Roaches camp just sound nervous with all the carping and digging press releases. I like what (little) I see from both guys training videos. Floyd swimming is a very good thing. Particularly considering where his stamina probably was before he even got wet.


-SouthPawFlo :

Is the Board gonna have a Meet & Great in Sin City Next Week..


-deepwater2 :

Is the Board gonna have a Meet & Great in Sin City Next Week..
I hope so. I will be flying in on Thursday so lets make it happen.


-SouthPawFlo :

I'll be in Vegas Friday Morning... I wanna meet some of the people behind the screen names...


-Radam G :

I'll be in Vegas Friday Morning... I wanna meet some of the people behind the screen names...
Friday this week or next week? Holla!


-amayseng :

Thanks guys..... While I'm on the subject, I'm reminded of the last fight "Between Good and Evil" that played out in the venue of a boxing ring. Holyfield vs Tyson #1. I won't go in depth because a true description of the epic event has enough content to warrant the commission of a short book. You will not find a more theologically divided superfight in history. What i remembered most is listening to Holyfield responding to questions from the press regarding threats from Mike Tyson who said he hated Holyfield and was going to make him pay by administering a vicious beatdown to the evangelizing boxer on fightnight. To paraphrase ....the reporter said: " You know Tyson doesn't like you and he's saying that he's angry at you and is going to really beat you up in the ring". Holyfield chuckled and said " we're boxers, it doesn't matter, we're going to fight anyway.... its our job to hurt each other in the ring....so what do I care about Tyson telling people that he wants to fight me in a boxing match?" It took about 15 seconds for that revelation to sink into the reporters mind and his whole expression changed once he comprehended the meaning of Holyfields words... the intense anxiety seemed to fade from his face and his worried grimace bloomed into a smile...."I guess your right Holy" the reporter said as they both shared another chuckle at what Evander had just said. There won't be any burning torches ...pitchforks ....... huge vats of burning oil will unfortunately not be present ringside for the MayPac fight... and after the fight neither boxer is going to be cast into the fires of hell. I don't even know if God will be applauding but i do know the history books will record a winner and the fight game can move on without suffering the regret of never knowing what the outcome will be. Enjoy the fight.
Evander was such a tribute to the sport itself. What a warrior


-brownsugar :

That he was......Amayseng.


-brownsugar :

I'll be in Vegas Friday Morning... I wanna meet some of the people behind the screen names...
Hey SouthPawFlo, post some pics afterwards.... I want to see what you guys look like ...(I might want to put a few of the pics on my speedbag).....lol. Enjoy the fight.


-amayseng :

Hey SouthPawFlo, post some pics afterwards.... I want to see what you guys look like ...(I might want to put a few of the pics on my speedbag).....lol. Enjoy the fight.
Haha would be nice if we could all make an event and get a group photo ha


-Scar :

My heart says Pacquiao but head says Mayweather. Its a tough stylistic match up for the Pac Man. He had all kinds of problems with Marquez's counter punching abilities. And Mayweather is a better counter puncher and obviously much much fast than Marquez. But in this sport, you never know. Neither man has faced anyone in the ring as a pro with the hand speed and quickness the other possesses. I really hope Pacquiao wins.
It's definitely a 50/50 fight.


-deepwater2 :

Hey so the tickets are going on sale today. at 3 pm EST. The closed circuits are going on sale today also at $165 a pop. My plans are up in the air but I might go to the Monte Carlo and get a table package with a few people. You gotta pay for the fight and You have to spend $200 per person on food and drinks which isn't too hard to do for some shrimp,steaks and stiff drinks. Around $400 for the whole thing including tip/tax which isn't too bad with the table service.


-mortcola :

For me, the answer is styles make fights. But not just the generalities - the actual nuances of the styles. First, Pac and Marquez were eye to eye. There were no opportunities for anyone to exploit a size or angle differential; the number of fights they had enabled Marquez - a master analyst but not as instinctually brilliant at this as Mayweather - to master a limited number Pacquaio vectors of attack, rhythms of ingress and egress, and made possible the lightning in the bottle overhand right he timed just so when Pac, seconds from a KO win, did a stereotyped straight-line shuffle right into Marq's face and fist. Mayweather will never have encountered the tornado of combinations and angles that flummoxed literally everyone Pac has otherwise fought, and which ironically gave Marquez the opportunity to learn to neutralize just a few of them. They guys both of them fought pretty unanimously say that Pac's combinations, their unpredictability, and the inability to know which carries that insane acceleration that put Mosley down and made him say that, having fought guys as big as heavyweight, he never felt power LIKE that of Pac - not just pounds per square inch, but sudden, unseen explosions that make mind and body numb. Floyd had never landed a punch like that. Your third stanza says it, though.


-mortcola :

anyone in Long Island is welcome to come watch with me & my little crew. Back message me if....


-Radam G :

Wow! Money May loves to trash GOAT Ali. But there is something called Karma. Holla at this flick:
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TVSABC2FDus. That video will be Money May's "famous last words" before defeat finds and beat the snot outta him. There are a whole lot of 7-fight pugs who can beat Money May, but he would never fight them. Dude is the master of disguises when it coming to pugging. But now -- May 2, 2015 -- the gig is up. Against Da Manny, Money May is going to be on the ropes copying the GOAT Ali, but Money May will not survive? Imma cut this thing to round five. Money May's face is going look like he was in a beehive. World Zulu time: one week and a wake up is the pugging affair of the second millennium. The curse of being 38 years old on bad legs and Da Manny's blinding speed and awesome bang will be Lil Floyd's Waterloo. Holla!


-Radam G :

Lil Floyd cannot get any love. Rev. (B??) George Foreman is picking Da Manny to beat Lil Floyd. Holla!


-stormcentre :

I wonder what the tally is on guys that have fought both Pacquaio and Mayweather; as far as whom they think will win. Now that's a statistic that probably worth looking at. Someone mentioned the other night that most guys that fought both, are either undecided, or openly picking Floyd; with very little leaning towards PacJuice. I think Sugar Ray Leonard leans to Floyd, and Floyd has at one stage of his career been accused (rightly/wrongly) of claiming to say he's better than SRL. Interested if anyone has da real truth an stats on PEDweather and PacJuice. If so, please bring it on; deliver.


-Radam G :

It is just about a shutout. All the old-skool pugs are riding with Da Manny. Lil Floyd is getting all the size-and-colored bigoted-believing New Jacks and a few Hollywooders on drugs and hos from the local Macks. Hehe! Zulu Time = five days and a loud wake up. And it is on. And Money May's undefeated record will be gone. Holla!


-King Beef :

I wonder what the tally is on guys that have fought both Pacquaio and Mayweather; as far as whom they think will win. Now that's a statistic that probably worth looking at. Someone mentioned the other night that most guys that fought both, are either undecided, or openly picking Floyd; with very little leaning towards PacJuice. I think Sugar Ray Leonard leans to Floyd, and Floyd has at one stage of his career been accused (rightly/wrongly) of claiming to say he's better than SRL. Interested if anyone has da real truth an stats on PEDweather and PacJuice. If so, please bring it on; deliver.
It will probably be hard to get a true guage all the way up to the fight. From what I have seen so far it seems like alot of the trainers are going Mayweather, but it probably changes daily just like the fighters. Storm I am also curious to see how the common opponents leaned, I think there is a round table coming up, or has already happened; and I think the interview with the legends has aired already. It's cool to see, but when it's all said and done only Pac or Money will have the final say next week.


-stormcentre :

It will probably be hard to get a true guage all the way up to the fight. From what I have seen so far it seems like alot of the trainers are going Mayweather, but it probably changes daily just like the fighters. Storm I am also curious to see how the common opponents leaned, I think there is a round table coming up, or has already happened; and I think the interview with the legends has aired already. It's cool to see, but when it's all said and done only Pac or Money will have the final say next week.
Hey KingB, Yes it's tricky as some of them (common opponents) seem to swing; due to the fact that if they don't their media appearance invitations are immediately halved. To the best of my knowledge the breakdown currently sits like this.
Corley leans towards Floyd; but then he's in Floyd's camp.
Zab, I think, the last time I saw him talking about it, was leaning towards Floyd.
Ricky I think is the same; Floyd.
Mosely has discussed both in the context of being superior, but I think there are a few conclusive videos out there that have him giving Floyd the edge.
Cotto is with Pac; in a few senses.
Forbes (only sparred both) seems to lean towards Floyd (I think), although he says good things about Pac too.
Oscar, when asked about Pac and Floyd, previously stated (WTTE) that Floyd is extremely difficult to beat and has the edge, but lately who knows where his head is as we all know the reasons why he'd want to see Floyd lose. Personally, I wouldn't put too much stock in what Big George says about the MayPac fight-possible-outcome. As whilst he's one of the all time greats, not many legends, heavyweights, and champions boxers have hid under the sheets for decades like he did; after a big loss. As with Hagler and Leonard; Floyd's legacy is still sealed if he loses. As is Pacs. Of course, none of the above have probably considered the fights' outcome in the context of Pac sprinkling cinnamon powder down his trunks and . . you know where . . whilst also sucking watermelon seeds before the fight to improve hand speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed babeeeeeeee. And, frankly, if that's gunna be the case. My money is on Pac. Whooo Hooo. In the words of Toney midstream in the Holyfeild fight; Whooo, having fun baby. Finally, agree with what you close out on. At the end of the day; it all comes down to how they feel when they walk in the ring and what they do in there at that time. OK, thanks KB.


-brownsugar :

I agree with you guys .... too close to call, Floyd has to love getting a guy with a smaller physique... He can blast Pac around his guard with looping shots all nite. But has he aged to much to be able to avoid the quickness of the lethal, leaping straight left or the step-around-from-behind right hook? I'm still not convinced of either outcome a week from the fight...the only sure thing I know is that I don't plan to miss it.


-Radam G :

I agree with you guys .... too close to call, Floyd has to love getting a guy with a smaller physique... He can blast Pac around his guard with looping shots all nite. But has he aged to much to be able to avoid the quickness of the lethal, leaping straight left or the step-around-from-behind right hook? I'm still not convinced of either outcome a week from the fight...the only sure thing I know is that I don't plan to miss it.
Size does not matter. Plus promotion's sizes are being put out. Money May ain't gonna be able to do syet, but what he criticized GOAT Ali for -- rope-a-doping. From the armpits to the end of the balled fists, Da Manny's and Money May's individual reaches are about the same. And Money May without his elevator shoes (lifts are what is in his shoes) on is only an inch and an hair taller than Da Manny. The same dumb syet that Lil Floyd did against Chino in Bout I, he's going to try to pull that syet on Da Manny, but to no avail. That ship ain't gonna sail. Money May is going to be all wet. On dat, you can bet. Holla!


-Radam G :

I agree with you guys .... too close to call, Floyd has to love getting a guy with a smaller physique... He can blast Pac around his guard with looping shots all nite. But has he aged to much to be able to avoid the quickness of the lethal, leaping straight left or the step-around-from-behind right hook? I'm still not convinced of either outcome a week from the fight...the only sure thing I know is that I don't plan to miss it.
Size does not matter. Plus promotion's sizes are being put out. Money May ain't gonna be able to do syet, but what he criticized GOAT Ali for -- rope-a-doping. From the armpits to the end of the balled fists, Da Manny's and Money May's individual reaches are about the same. And Money May without his elevator shoes (lifts are what is in his shoes) on is only an inch and an hair taller than Da Manny. The same dumb syet that Lil Floyd did against Chino in Bout I, he's going to try to pull that syet on Da Manny, but to no avail. That ship ain't gonna sail. Money May is going to be all wet. On dat, you can bet. Holla!


-Radam G :

BTW, besides, Da Manny is bigger -- in the wrists and calves -- than Money May where it counts for the blasting of power. Money May is going to get _______ _______ _______. Those Pretty Boy's looks are going to look like syet. Hehe! His mug will scare off the fake-dope smoking big-booty babes for a minute. Hehehe! Holla!


-brownsugar :

We will certainly learn the truth... In demonstration on May 2nd RG. Enjoy.


-King Beef :

Hey KingB, Yes it's tricky as some of them (common opponents) seem to swing; due to the fact that if they don't their media appearance invitations are immediately halved. To the best of my knowledge the breakdown currently sits like this.
Corley leans towards Floyd; but then he's in Floyd's camp.
Zab, I think, the last time I saw him talking about it, was leaning towards Floyd.
Ricky I think is the same; Floyd.
Mosely has discussed both in the context of being superior, but I think there are a few conclusive videos out there that have him giving Floyd the edge.
Cotto is with Pac; in a few senses.
Forbes (only sparred both) seems to lean towards Floyd (I think), although he says good things about Pac too.
Oscar, when asked about Pac and Floyd, previously stated (WTTE) that Floyd is extremely difficult to beat and has the edge, but lately who knows where his head is as we all know the reasons why he'd want to see Floyd lose. Personally, I wouldn't put too much stock in what Big George says about the MayPac fight-possible-outcome. As whilst he's one of the all time greats, not many legends, heavyweights, and champions boxers have hid under the sheets for decades like he did; after a big loss. As with Hagler and Leonard; Floyd's legacy is still sealed if he loses. As is Pacs. Of course, none of the above have probably considered the fights' outcome in the context of Pac sprinkling cinnamon powder down his trunks and . . you know where . . whilst also sucking watermelon seeds before the fight to improve hand speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed babeeeeeeee. And, frankly, if that's gunna be the case. My money is on Pac. Whooo Hooo. In the words of Toney midstream in the Holyfeild fight; Whooo, having fun baby. Finally, agree with what you close out on. At the end of the day; it all comes down to how they feel when they walk in the ring and what they do in there at that time. OK, thanks KB.
Storm, watching Legends speak: of the 5 common opponents Mosley went with Money, Oscar wouldn't commit, Cotto wouldn't commit , Marquez went with Mayweather, Hatton went with Mayweather. The legends: Big George went with Pac, Lennox went with Mayweather, BHop went with Mayweather. Big George made an excellent point, he thinks those early adjustment rounds Mayweather gives up, he won't be able to catch back up. Which I can see happening. BHop also made a good point: he states Pac can get rounds just by the volume of punches and looking busier whether they are scoring or not. Seems like everyone the leans Mayweather is of the same accord; that he will make the adjustments after the initial Pac-storm, and take a MD. But like we all say, since neither can get in that ring next Saturday, it's all just talk.


-stormcentre :

Storm, watching Legends speak: of the 5 common opponents Mosley went with Money, Oscar wouldn't commit, Cotto wouldn't commit , Marquez went with Mayweather, Hatton went with Mayweather. The legends: Big George went with Pac, Lennox went with Mayweather, BHop went with Mayweather. Big George made an excellent point, he thinks those early adjustment rounds Mayweather gives up, he won't be able to catch back up. Which I can see happening. BHop also made a good point: he states Pac can get rounds just by the volume of punches and looking busier whether they are scoring or not. Seems like everyone the leans Mayweather is of the same accord; that he will make the adjustments after the initial Pac-storm, and take a MD. But like we all say, since neither can get in that ring next Saturday, it's all just talk.
Thanks KB. Interesting that Cotto, when placed on the above-mentioned show reversed from what he has previously said (pretty strong support for Manny) to give Floyd the advantage. I previously read somewhere that he was quite outspoken in his prediction that Manny would beat Floyd. But due to the facts that he shares the same gym/trainer as Pac, and that he and Manny are also friends; I kind of took all that with a pinch of salt - as you know Cotto knows that Roach probably wouldn't all that pleased if he - at that time - said anything differently. Marquez' comments are interesting too; for all the obvious reasons. Also, because; A) My bet is that Floyd will walk into the ring with Manny next weekend at around a similar weight (that gives Floyd the same ratio of strength/speed advantages) as he was when he totally dominated Pacquiao a few years back. B) Size "will" - whether or not it is enough - matter. The reasons for that are - as you most likely know - a fast strong big guy will almost always beat a fast strong little guy; particularly if the big guy can keep the fight where it serves him best. Smaller guys possessing speed advantages almost always have their success synonymous with opponents that can't match their speed and intensity; but even if Floyd can't shut down the latter in Manny he will probably match Pac in the former - which will not only be the first time that's happened to Manny for quite a while - but it will also be the first time it's happened to Pac against a guy that can hurt him and make him pay. Anyway, these size, speed, and weight discussions are why we have weight divisions, drug tests, and they're why heavyweights with good technique and fast feet/hands are very, very dangerous; Ali. From my perspective, common opponents opinions on whom will win carry far more weight than other celebrities and famous boxers for all the reasons one of the top TSS writers told us about a few months back; can't remember the name of the article/author right now - but the gist of it all was, I think, that they were all somehow susceptible to influence and/or a form of no-family nepotism at a distance. Also, it's interesting that almost all of the common MayPac opponents - especially those that Manny has been considered to dominate and/or win against more spectacularly - still select Floyd; who I don't think has ever had a count on him professionally. I think almost all these guys know that Floyd is a very hard guy to come into the ring with and confidently play out a battle-plan that's underpinned by trying to force him to fight at your tempo and pace. They also know that Floyd almost always lands around or above 50% of his shots, is not reckless, and has an exceptional defence. I can't remember the last time I heard beaten common opponents of two guys, that - when asked whom out of the two guys that beat them will win an upcoming fight - still favour the guy that didn't ice them as spectacularly; instead, going for the guy that beat/broke them for the first time. These guys in my opinion know boxing, the fight game, both opponents, and that Floyd breaks opponents down in a different way to fighters that just go out looking for, and sometimes get (and receive), the KO. All that aside, both Pac and Floyd's approach to winning fights and also their boxing/fighting attributes are the inverse of each other, and that should make for a great fight. In my opinion, this is a bout between a well proven, all time great, risk-taking, sometimes reckless fighter (Pacquaio), and a master craftsmen, sometimes safety-first, boxer (Floyd). I still give the edge to Floyd, but it's going to be interesting to see whether he feels pressure, and how easily (or difficultly) he deals with those aspects of Pacquaio's game that have the ability to potentially cause him grief. Likewise - if Mayweather starts picking Manny off, controlling the distance, stepping back (rather than resetting and/or following Pac around) when Pac decides to jump/move about, and countering him nicely - it's going to see how Manny handles that. As he has never faced a guy with a; size, reach, height, weight, and strength advantage that also has all the tools, smarts, experience and (perhaps most importantly) speed that Pacman has. And, if it does become an issue for Manny, that's an awful lot to adjust to for the first time; whether or not it's the biggest fight of your life. I should also say, that, in my view, if you had exactly the same Pac, but in an orthodox stance, the threat would be considerably less - but that's not the case. So, why did I mention it? Cause Floyd might decide to fight as a lefty if he feels the time is right. One final observation, and perhaps this has happened and we just haven't seen it. I don't think so though. And I say that as almost all of Roaches fighters have this issue and it's why some of them hit a brick wall after a certain period of time. Defence. I am yet to see Roach teach and/or do any meaningful defensive drills with Pac. I honestly think it's because Freddy . . . look I won't go there. He's a HoF trainer. Anyway, as we know, Pac was taken out by Juan Manuel Marquez by an outside right cross as Pac came forward. The outside right cross is not only a punch (right hand) that Floyd is an expert in - but one that he could easily read (the need for) and execute far better than Marquez. And just so people don't think I am pointing out too many faults with the Pac and Floyd; will Mayweather's most favoured (shoulder roll and/or Philly Crab) or even his secondary (traditional both hands up) defence hold up against a fast, tenacious, and resilient lefty like Pac? We're almost there. This is going to be good. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

Storm, watching Legends speak: of the 5 common opponents Mosley went with Money, Oscar wouldn't commit, Cotto wouldn't commit , Marquez went with Mayweather, Hatton went with Mayweather. The legends: Big George went with Pac, Lennox went with Mayweather, BHop went with Mayweather. Big George made an excellent point, he thinks those early adjustment rounds Mayweather gives up, he won't be able to catch back up. Which I can see happening. BHop also made a good point: he states Pac can get rounds just by the volume of punches and looking busier whether they are scoring or not. Seems like everyone the leans Mayweather is of the same accord; that he will make the adjustments after the initial Pac-storm, and take a MD. But like we all say, since neither can get in that ring next Saturday, it's all just talk.
Thanks KB. Interesting that Cotto, when placed on the above-mentioned show reversed from what he has previously said (pretty strong support for Manny) to not give Manny the advantage. I previously read somewhere that he was quite outspoken in his prediction that Manny would beat Floyd. But due to the facts that he shares the same gym/trainer as Pac, and that he and Manny are also friends; I kind of took all that with a pinch of salt - as you know Cotto knows that Roach probably wouldn't all that pleased if he - at that time - said anything differently. Marquez' comments are interesting too; for all the obvious reasons. Also, because; A) My bet is that Floyd will walk into the ring with Manny next weekend at around a similar weight (that gives Floyd the same ratio of strength/speed advantages) as he was when he totally dominated Pacquiao a few years back. B) Size "will" - whether or not it is enough - matter. The reasons for that are - as you most likely know - a fast strong big guy will almost always beat a fast strong little guy; particularly if the big guy can keep the fight where it serves him best. Smaller guys possessing speed advantages almost always have their success synonymous with opponents that can't match their speed and intensity; but even if Floyd can't shut down the latter in Manny he will probably match Pac in the former - which will not only be the first time that's happened to Manny for quite a while - but it will also be the first time it's happened to Pac against a guy that can hurt him and make him pay. Anyway, these size, speed, and weight discussions are why we have weight divisions, drug tests, and they're why heavyweights with good technique and fast feet/hands are very, very dangerous; Ali. From my perspective, common opponents opinions on whom will win carry far more weight than other celebrities and famous boxers for all the reasons one of the top TSS writers told us about a few months back; can't remember the name of the article/author right now - but the gist of it all was, I think, that they were all somehow susceptible to influence and/or a form of no-family nepotism at a distance. Also, it's interesting that almost all of the common MayPac opponents - especially those that Manny has been considered to dominate and/or win against more spectacularly - still select Floyd; who I don't think has ever had a count on him professionally. I think almost all these guys know that Floyd is a very hard guy to come into the ring with and confidently play out a battle-plan that's underpinned by trying to force him to fight at your tempo and pace. They also know that Floyd almost always lands around or above 50% of his shots, is not reckless, and has an exceptional defence. I can't remember the last time I heard beaten common opponents of two guys, that - when asked whom out of the two guys that beat them will win an upcoming fight - still favour the guy that didn't ice them as spectacularly; instead, going for the guy that beat/broke them for the first time. These guys in my opinion know boxing, the fight game, both opponents, and that Floyd breaks opponents down in a different way to fighters that just go out looking for, and sometimes get (and receive), the KO. All that aside, both Pac and Floyd's approach to winning fights and also their boxing/fighting attributes are the inverse of each other, and that should make for a great fight. In my opinion, this is a bout between a well proven, all time great, risk-taking, sometimes reckless fighter (Pacquaio), and a master craftsmen, sometimes safety-first, boxer (Floyd). I still give the edge to Floyd, but it's going to be interesting to see whether he feels pressure, and how easily (or difficultly) he deals with those aspects of Pacquaio's game that have the ability to potentially cause him grief. Likewise - if Mayweather starts picking Manny off, controlling the distance, stepping back (rather than resetting and/or following Pac around) when Pac decides to jump/move about, and countering him nicely - it's going to see how Manny handles that. As he has never faced a guy with a; size, reach, height, weight, and strength advantage that also has all the tools, smarts, experience and (perhaps most importantly) speed that Pacman has. And, if it does become an issue for Manny, that's an awful lot to adjust to for the first time; whether or not it's the biggest fight of your life. I should also say, that, in my view, if you had exactly the same Pac, but in an orthodox stance, the threat would be considerably less - but that's not the case. So, why did I mention it? Cause Floyd might decide to fight as a lefty if he feels the time is right. One final observation, and perhaps this has happened and we just haven't seen it. I don't think so though. And I say that as almost all of Roaches fighters have this issue and it's why some of them hit a brick wall after a certain period of time. Defence. I am yet to see Roach teach and/or do any meaningful defensive drills with Pac. I honestly think it's because Freddy . . . look I won't go there. He's a HoF trainer. Anyway, as we know, Pac was taken out by Juan Manuel Marquez by an outside right cross as Pac came forward. The outside right cross is not only a punch (right hand) that Floyd is an expert in - but one that he could easily read (the need for) and execute far better than Marquez. And just so people don't think I am pointing out too many faults with the Pac and Floyd; will Mayweather's most favoured (shoulder roll and/or Philly Crab) or even his secondary (traditional both hands up) defence hold up against a fast, tenacious, and resilient lefty like Pac? We're almost there. This is going to be good. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

Storm, watching Legends speak: of the 5 common opponents Mosley went with Money, Oscar wouldn't commit, Cotto wouldn't commit , Marquez went with Mayweather, Hatton went with Mayweather. The legends: Big George went with Pac, Lennox went with Mayweather, BHop went with Mayweather. Big George made an excellent point, he thinks those early adjustment rounds Mayweather gives up, he won't be able to catch back up. Which I can see happening. BHop also made a good point: he states Pac can get rounds just by the volume of punches and looking busier whether they are scoring or not. Seems like everyone the leans Mayweather is of the same accord; that he will make the adjustments after the initial Pac-storm, and take a MD. But like we all say, since neither can get in that ring next Saturday, it's all just talk.
Thanks KB. Interesting that Cotto, when placed on the above-mentioned show reversed from what he has previously said (pretty strong support for Manny) to not give Manny the advantage. I previously read somewhere that he was quite outspoken in his prediction that Manny would beat Floyd. But due to the facts that he shares the same gym/trainer as Pac, and that he and Manny are also friends; I kind of took all that with a pinch of salt - as you know Cotto knows that Roach probably wouldn't all that pleased if he - at that time - said anything differently. Marquez' comments are interesting too; for all the obvious reasons. Also, because; A) My bet is that Floyd will walk into the ring with Manny next weekend at around a similar weight (that gives Floyd the same ratio of strength/speed advantages) as he was when he totally dominated Pacquiao a few years back. B) Size "will" - whether or not it is enough - matter. The reasons for that are - as you most likely know - a fast strong big guy will almost always beat a fast strong little guy; particularly if the big guy can keep the fight where it serves him best. Smaller guys possessing speed advantages almost always have their success synonymous with opponents that can't match their speed and intensity; but even if Floyd can't shut down the latter in Manny he will probably match Pac in the former - which will not only be the first time that's happened to Manny for quite a while - but it will also be the first time it's happened to Pac against a guy that can hurt him and make him pay. Anyway, these size, speed, and weight discussions are why we have weight divisions, drug tests, and they're why heavyweights with good technique and fast feet/hands are very, very dangerous; Ali. From my perspective, common opponents opinions on whom will win carry far more weight than other celebrities and famous boxers for all the reasons one of the top TSS writers told us about a few months back; can't remember the name of the article/author right now - but, I think, the gist of it all was that celebrities and famous boxers were all somehow susceptible to influence and/or a form of non-family nepotism at a distance. Also, it's interesting that almost all of the common MayPac opponents - especially those that Manny has been considered to dominate and/or win against more spectacularly - still select Floyd; who I don't think has ever had a count on him professionally. I think almost all these guys know that Floyd is a very hard guy to come into the ring with and confidently play out a battle-plan that's underpinned by trying to force him to fight at your tempo and pace. They also know that Floyd almost always lands around or above 50% of his shots, is not reckless, and has an exceptional defence. I can't remember the last time I heard beaten common opponents of two guys, that - when asked whom out of the two guys that beat them will win an upcoming fight - still favour the guy that didn't ice them as spectacularly; instead, going for the guy that beat/broke them for the first time. These guys in my opinion know boxing, the fight game, both opponents, and that Floyd breaks opponents down in a different way to fighters that just go out looking for, and sometimes get (and receive), the KO. All that aside, both Pac and Floyd's approach to winning fights and also their boxing/fighting attributes are the inverse of each other, and that should make for a great fight. In my opinion, this is a bout between a well proven, all time great, risk-taking, sometimes reckless fighter (Pacquaio), and a master craftsmen, sometimes safety-first, boxer (Floyd). I still give the edge to Floyd, but it's going to be interesting to see whether he feels pressure, and how easily (or difficultly) he deals with those aspects of Pacquaio's game that have the ability to potentially cause him grief. Likewise - if Mayweather starts picking Manny off, controlling the distance, stepping back (rather than resetting and/or following Pac around) when Pac decides to jump/move about, and countering him nicely - it's going to see how Manny handles that. As he has never faced a guy with a; size, reach, height, weight, and strength advantage that also has all the tools, smarts, experience and (perhaps most importantly) speed that Pacman has. And, if it does become an issue for Manny, that's an awful lot to adjust to for the first time; whether or not it's the biggest fight of your life. I should also say, that, in my view, if you had exactly the same Pac, but in an orthodox stance, the threat would be considerably less - but that's not the case. So, why did I mention it? Cause Floyd might decide to fight as a lefty if he feels the time is right. One final observation, and perhaps this has happened and we just haven't seen it. I don't think so though. And I say that as almost all of Roaches fighters have this issue and it's why some of them hit a brick wall after a certain period of time. Defence. I am yet to see Roach teach and/or do any meaningful defensive drills with Pac. I honestly think it's because Freddy . . . look I won't go there. He's a HoF trainer. Anyway, as we know, Pac was taken out by Juan Manuel Marquez by an outside right cross as Pac came forward. The outside right cross is not only a punch (right hand) that Floyd is an expert in - but one that he could easily read (the need for) and execute far better than Marquez. And just so people don't think I am pointing out too many faults with the Pac and Floyd; will Mayweather's most favoured (shoulder roll and/or Philly Crab) or even his secondary (traditional both hands up) defence hold up against a fast, tenacious, and resilient lefty like Pac? We're almost there. This is going to be good. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

Storm, watching Legends speak: of the 5 common opponents Mosley went with Money, Oscar wouldn't commit, Cotto wouldn't commit , Marquez went with Mayweather, Hatton went with Mayweather. The legends: Big George went with Pac, Lennox went with Mayweather, BHop went with Mayweather. Big George made an excellent point, he thinks those early adjustment rounds Mayweather gives up, he won't be able to catch back up. Which I can see happening. BHop also made a good point: he states Pac can get rounds just by the volume of punches and looking busier whether they are scoring or not. Seems like everyone the leans Mayweather is of the same accord; that he will make the adjustments after the initial Pac-storm, and take a MD. But like we all say, since neither can get in that ring next Saturday, it's all just talk.
Thanks KB. Interesting that Cotto, when placed on the above-mentioned show reversed from what he has previously said (pretty strong support for Manny) to not give Manny the advantage. I previously read somewhere that he was quite outspoken in his prediction that Manny would beat Floyd. But due to the facts that he shares the same gym/trainer as Pac, and that he and Manny are also friends; I kind of took all that with a pinch of salt - as you know Cotto knows that Roach probably wouldn't all that pleased if he - at that time - said anything differently. Marquez' comments are interesting too; for all the obvious reasons. Also, because; A) My bet is that Floyd will walk into the ring with Manny next weekend at around a similar weight (that gives Floyd the same ratio of strength/speed advantages) as he was when he totally dominated Pacquiao a few years back. B) Size "will" - whether or not it is enough - matter. The reasons for that are - as you most likely know - a fast strong big guy will almost always beat a fast strong little guy; particularly if the big guy can keep the fight where it serves him best. Smaller guys possessing speed advantages almost always have their success synonymous with opponents that can't match their speed and intensity; but even if Floyd can't shut down the latter in Manny he will probably match Pac in the former - which will not only be the first time that's happened to Manny for quite a while - but it will also be the first time it's happened to Pac against a guy that can hurt him and make him pay. Anyway, these size, speed, and weight discussions are why we have weight divisions, drug tests, and they're why heavyweights with good technique and fast feet/hands are very, very dangerous; Ali. From my perspective, common opponents opinions on whom will win carry far more weight than other celebrities and famous boxers for all the reasons one of the top TSS writers told us about a few months back; can't remember the name of the article/author right now - but, I think, the gist of it all was that celebrities and famous boxers were all somehow susceptible to influence and/or a form of non-family nepotism at a distance. Also, it's interesting that almost all of the common MayPac opponents - especially those that Manny has been considered to dominate and/or win against more spectacularly - still select Floyd; who I don't think has ever had a count on him professionally. I think almost all these guys know that Floyd is a very hard guy to come into the ring with and confidently play out a battle-plan that's underpinned by trying to force him to fight at your tempo and pace. They also know that Floyd almost always lands around or above 50% of his shots, is not reckless, and has an exceptional defence. I can't remember the last time I heard beaten common opponents of two guys, that - when asked whom out of the two guys that beat them will win an upcoming fight - still favour the guy that didn't ice them as spectacularly; instead, going for the guy that beat/broke them for the first time. These guys in my opinion know boxing, the fight game, both opponents, and that Floyd breaks opponents down in a different way to fighters that just go out looking for, and sometimes get (and receive), the KO. All that aside, both Pac and Floyd's approach to winning fights and also their boxing/fighting attributes are the inverse of each other, and that should make for a great fight. In my opinion, this is a bout between a well proven, all time great, risk-taking, sometimes reckless fighter (Pacquaio), and a master craftsmen, sometimes safety-first, boxer (Floyd). I still give the edge to Floyd, but it's going to be interesting to see whether he feels pressure, and how easily (or difficultly) he deals with those aspects of Pacquaio's game that have the ability to potentially cause him grief. Likewise - if Mayweather starts picking Manny off, controlling the distance, stepping back (rather than resetting and/or following Pac around) when Pac decides to jump/move about, and countering him nicely - it's going to be interesting see how Manny handles that. As Pac has never really faced a guy with a; size, reach, height, weight, and strength advantage - that also has all the tools, smarts, experience and (perhaps most importantly) speed that Pacman has. And, if it does become an issue for Manny, that's an awful lot to adjust to for the first time; whether or not it's the biggest fight of your life. I should also say, that, in my view, if you had exactly the same Pac, but in an orthodox stance, the threat would be considerably less - but that's not the case. So, why did I mention it? Cause Floyd might decide to fight as a lefty if he feels the time is right. One final observation, and perhaps this has happened and we just haven't seen it. I don't think so though. And I say that as almost all of Roaches fighters have this issue and it's why some of them hit a brick wall after a certain period of time. Defence. I am yet to see Roach teach and/or do any meaningful defensive drills with Pac. I honestly think it's because Freddy . . . look I won't go there. He's a HoF trainer. Anyway, as we know, Pac was taken out by Juan Manuel Marquez by an outside right cross as Pac came forward. The outside right cross is not only a punch (right hand) that Floyd is an expert in - but one that he could easily read (the need for) and execute far better than Marquez. And just so people don't think I am pointing out too many faults with the Pac and not Floyd; will Mayweather's most favoured (shoulder roll and/or Philly Crab) or even his secondary (traditional both hands up) defence hold up against a fast, tenacious, and resilient lefty like Pac? We're almost there. This is going to be good. Cheers.


-deepwater2 :

Maidana says to bet on PAC. Maidana says Floyd is damaged from the punishment he dissed out. Maidana says Floyd speaks with a heavy tongue now that is noticeable at the press conference and recent interviews. Did Floyd take damage from the first Maidana fight? For sure. If Floyd fights Pac like de lay Hoya fought Trinidad, PAC wins the fight even if Floyd wins the boxing match. In a super fight the rules are a bit different. Rounds usually go to the boxer trying to make it an exciting fight and force exchanges . If PAC flurries with 6 punches and only lands two while Floyd steps back ,covers up and counters and lands three and covers up who will the judges give the exchange to? I say PAC . As long is PAC is busier it doesn't matter if Floyd lands crisp counters. Who knows if it's close and Floyd looks good and still loses he might win more fans than he ever did before.


-stormcentre :

Storm, watching Legends speak: of the 5 common opponents Mosley went with Money, Oscar wouldn't commit, Cotto wouldn't commit , Marquez went with Mayweather, Hatton went with Mayweather. The legends: Big George went with Pac, Lennox went with Mayweather, BHop went with Mayweather. Big George made an excellent point, he thinks those early adjustment rounds Mayweather gives up, he won't be able to catch back up. Which I can see happening. BHop also made a good point: he states Pac can get rounds just by the volume of punches and looking busier whether they are scoring or not. Seems like everyone the leans Mayweather is of the same accord; that he will make the adjustments after the initial Pac-storm, and take a MD. But like we all say, since neither can get in that ring next Saturday, it's all just talk.
Thanks KB. Interesting that Cotto, when placed on the above-mentioned show reversed from what he has previously said (pretty strong support for Manny) to not give Manny the advantage. I previously read somewhere that he was quite outspoken in his prediction that Manny would beat Floyd. But due to the facts that he shares the same gym/trainer as Pac, and that he and Manny are also friends; I kind of took all that with a pinch of salt - as you know Cotto knows that Roach probably wouldn't all that pleased if he - at that time - said anything differently. Marquez' comments are interesting too; for all the obvious reasons. Also, because; A) My bet is that Floyd will walk into the ring with Manny next weekend at around a similar weight (that gives Floyd the same ratio of strength/speed advantages) as he was when he totally dominated Pacquiao a few years back. B) Size "will" - whether or not it is enough - matter. The reasons for that are - as you most likely know - a fast strong big guy will almost always beat a fast strong little guy; particularly if the big guy can keep the fight where it serves him best. Smaller guys possessing speed advantages almost always have their success synonymous with opponents that can't match their speed and intensity; but even if Floyd can't shut down the latter in Manny he will probably match Pac in the former - which will not only be the first time that's happened to Manny for quite a while - but it will also be the first time it's happened to Pac against a guy that can hurt him and make him pay. Anyway, these size, speed, and weight discussions are why we have weight divisions, drug tests, and they're why heavyweights with good technique and fast feet/hands are very, very dangerous; Ali. From my perspective, common opponents opinions on whom will win carry far more weight than other celebrities and famous boxers for all the reasons one of the top TSS writers told us about a few months back; can't remember the name of the article/author right now - but, I think, the gist of it all was that celebrities and famous boxers were all somehow susceptible to influence and/or a form of non-family nepotism at a distance. Also, it's interesting that almost all of the common MayPac opponents - especially those that Manny has been considered to dominate and/or win against more spectacularly - still select Floyd; who I don't think has ever had a count on him professionally. I think almost all these guys know that Floyd is a very hard guy to come into the ring with and confidently play out a battle-plan that's underpinned by trying to force him to fight at your tempo and pace. They also know that Floyd almost always lands around or above 50% of his shots, is not reckless, and has an exceptional defence. I can't remember the last time I heard beaten common opponents of two guys, that - when asked whom out of the two guys that beat them will win an upcoming fight - still favour the guy that didn't ice them as spectacularly; instead, going for the guy that beat/broke them for the first time. These guys in my opinion know boxing, the fight game, both opponents, and that Floyd breaks opponents down in a different way to fighters that just go out looking for, and sometimes get (and receive) the KO. All that aside, both Pac and Floyd's approach to winning fights and also their boxing/fighting attributes are the inverse of each other, and that should make for a great fight. In my opinion, this is a bout between a well proven, all time great, risk-taking, sometimes reckless fighter (Pacquaio), and a master craftsmen, sometimes safety-first, boxer (Floyd). I still give the edge to Floyd, but it's going to be interesting to see whether he feels pressure, and how easily (or difficultly) he deals with those aspects of Pacquaio's game that have the ability to potentially cause him grief. Likewise - if Mayweather starts picking Manny off, controlling the distance, stepping back (rather than resetting and/or following Pac around) when Pac decides to jump/move about, and countering him nicely - it's going to be interesting see how Manny handles that. As Pac has never really faced a guy with a; size, reach, height, weight, and strength advantage - that also has all the tools, smarts, experience and (perhaps most importantly) speed that Floyd Money Mayweather has. And, if it does become an issue for Manny, that's an awful lot to adjust to for the first time; whether or not it's the biggest fight of your life. I should also say, that, in my view, if you had exactly the same Pac, but in an orthodox stance, the threat would be considerably less - but that's not the case. So, why did I mention it? Cause Floyd might decide to fight as a lefty if he feels the time is right. One final observation, and perhaps this has happened and we just haven't seen it. I don't think so though. And I say that as almost all of Roaches fighters have this issue and it's why some of them hit a brick wall after a certain period of time. Defence. I am yet to see Roach teach and/or do any meaningful defensive drills with Pac. I honestly think it's because Freddy . . . look I won't go there. He's a HoF trainer. Anyway, as we know, Pac was taken out by Juan Manuel Marquez by an outside right cross as Pac came forward. The outside right cross is not only a punch (right hand) that Floyd is an expert in - but one that he could easily read (the need for) and execute far better than Marquez. And just so people don't think I am pointing out too many faults with the Pac and not Floyd; will Mayweather's most favoured (shoulder roll and/or Philly Crab) or even his secondary (traditional both hands up) defence hold up against a fast, tenacious, and resilient lefty like Pac? We're almost there. This is going to be good. Cheers.


-brownsugar :

Maidana says to bet on PAC. Maidana says Floyd is damaged from the punishment he dissed out. Maidana says Floyd speaks with a heavy tongue now that is noticeable at the press conference and recent interviews. Did Floyd take damage from the first Maidana fight? For sure. If Floyd fights Pac like de lay Hoya fought Trinidad, PAC wins the fight even if Floyd wins the boxing match. In a super fight the rules are a bit different. Rounds usually go to the boxer trying to make it an exciting fight and force exchanges . If PAC flurries with 6 punches and only lands two while Floyd steps back ,covers up and counters and lands three and covers up who will the judges give the exchange to? I say PAC . As long is PAC is busier it doesn't matter if Floyd lands crisp counters. Who knows if it's close and Floyd looks good and still loses he might win more fans than he ever did before.
I think the wreckless unpredictable, arhytmic, bum-rushing, heavyhanded Maidana was the perfect preparation for the special brand of chaos Pac brings to the table .... But with considerable less length and weight. Listen to the Mayweather phone conference that Mike Woods and a select few members of the press participated in a few days ago. Floyd is even more articulate and spontaneous while obviously enjoying a state of being playfully relaxed than ever before... And this is after a hard day of working out when Floyd is getting in some downtime. Enjoy the fight.


-Radam G :

Mainland U.S. time = five days and awake. And the Mayvinci code gets broken and Floydulk aka Vampire facial Floydoping get those pretty boy looks tarnished. He will look more like the Elephant Man with all dat syet that Alex Ariza and Fallen Angel "Memo" Heredia put in him. Plus the curse of 38 year old is all up in Money May's legs and grill. Dude couldn't climb a hill of beans. Holla!


-King Beef :

"In a super fight the rules are a bit different. Rounds usually go to the boxer trying to make it an exciting fight and force exchanges . If PAC flurries with 6 punches and only lands two while Floyd steps back ,covers up and counters and lands three and covers up who will the judges give the exchange to? I say PAC . As long is PAC is busier it doesn't matter if Floyd lands crisp counters." Deep, although Bhop went with Mayweather, that the exact point he stated, as to how Pac could get the win. Which I could very well see happening.


-King Beef :

Storm I was surprised Cotto went straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so. Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet.


-Radam G :

Storm I was surprised Cotto went straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so. Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet.
The percentage of the stable, smart old-skool minds of the sweet science have posted already how good Da Manny's defense really is, and how Lil Floyd will seldom find something to hit. Also, besides, an active offense is a good defense. Oftentimes the best defend. Lil Floyd is going to have to DIG. But he can't! Maybe this is why with new training tactics, he is acting so BIG! Da Manny is going to roast him like A PIG. For being undefeated for Money May, it is the end of the gig. Misinformation on how to keep his legs young and fit has grabbed Money May, and snatched him into the actualities of the realities of aging, especially in the legs and feet. He is deep into fantasy right now. And will have a great awaking and surprise when dat squared jungle bell rings and he has no legs. And cannot find Da Manny, or be able to handle Da Manny snap, crackle POP! Everything ends except time, and all haps of yesteryears. Money May's groupies, flunkies, fanboys and fanfaronades are going to have a lot tears. The Universe has been wilding and childish for bit. So a lot of posts have been missed. This fight has brought the type that this following song warns about:
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJZcVi5BA4. Holla!


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? Oscar did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was a reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. I think, after all the past mishaps and an ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions by Oscar - as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd. And that's even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not and instead won on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest backed Floyd and/or where not committing, even though those not committing where all the guys that had not only been stopped by Manny - but had experienced that outcome whilst disadvantaged. Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. To Floyd's fight with Maidana; I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time, feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. All this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult fight for Floyd; that he still won most rounds in, pulled off some good moves in, adjusted in, and despite it all still got the win. A good (comparable MayPac) observation may be that Pac didn't blow Rios out, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to hold such a Pacman V Maidana fight up, when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously - not many guys are as agile as he is and he has used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the Manny leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with it would need to be re-engineered and I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/fir for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as down just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. Even aside from what happens and is exposed if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in but keeps proceeding; that's a lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. Diving deeper into that train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez - countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and better than Marquez; he also thinks about and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards - that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies, but also creates more openings for his fast, single shots that are easy for judges to score. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heart off them; Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence. Pac just hopes he won't get hit as he does his thing, as whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity and agility, that works. Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight, and I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Not that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring; but I see difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than, Floyd and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can adjust, and I don't think Pacquaio can (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) that Floyd can lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist and/or counterpuncher, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *aspects Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan in. Now, Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed and a defence. That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Cheers.


-stormcentre :


I think the wreckless unpredictable, arhytmic, bum-rushing, heavyhanded Maidana was the perfect preparation for the special brand of chaos Pac brings to the table .... But with considerable less length and weight. Listen to the Mayweather phone conference that Mike Woods and a select few members of the press participated in a few days ago. Floyd is even more articulate and spontaneous while obviously enjoying a state of being playfully relaxed than ever before... And this is after a hard day of working out when Floyd is getting in some downtime. Enjoy the fight.
Agree. That (possibly boosted) version Maidana would be a tough fight for anyone at/around that weight division; Cotto, Canelo, and Pac included.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest backed Floyd and/or where not committing. Even though those not committing to support Pacquaio and provide a prediction where all guys that had not only been stopped by Manny - but also those that had also experienced that outcome whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about. When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PedJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PedJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/for for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always presented as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator aspects I attributed to Matquez; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest backed Floyd and/or where not committing. Even though those not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction, were all guys that had not only been stopped by Manny - but also those that had also experienced that outcome whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about. When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PedJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PedJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/for for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always presented as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator aspects I attributed to Matquez; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or where not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PedJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PedJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/for for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always presented as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator aspects I attributed to Matquez; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or where not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PEDJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PedJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/for for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always presented as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator aspects I attributed to Matquez; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or where not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PEDJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PacJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/for for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always presented as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator aspects I attributed to Matquez; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or where not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PEDJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PacJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/recipient for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always presented as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator aspects I attributed to Matquez; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses Juan with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with Pac's southpaw combination-speed and fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly has faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion That tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree -Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or where not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PEDJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PacJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/recipient for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always present as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator I above discussed and attributed to Pacquaio opponents; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses even Marquez with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with "both" Pac's southpaw combination-speed "and" fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly "has "faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion that tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree - Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or were not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PEDJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PacJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective facts that support Floyd - facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as objective claims; in order to justify the next round of unchecked claims and Donkey "jolts". Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/recipient for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always present as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator I above discussed and attributed to Pacquaio opponents; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses even Marquez with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with "both" Pac's southpaw combination-speed "and" fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly "has "faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion that tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :


The percentage of the stable, smart old-skool minds of the sweet science have posted already how good Da Manny's defense really is, and how Lil Floyd will seldom find something to hit.
Also, besides, an active offense is a good defense. Oftentimes the best defend. Lil Floyd is going to have to DIG. But he can't! Maybe this is why with new training tactics, he is acting so BIG! Da Manny is going to roast him like A PIG. For being undefeated for Money May, it is the end of the gig. Misinformation on how to keep his legs young and fit has grabbed Money May, and snatched him into the actualities of the realities of aging, especially in the legs and feet. He is deep into fantasy right now. And will have a great awaking and surprise when dat squared jungle bell rings and he has no legs. And cannot find Da Manny, or be able to handle Da Manny snap, crackle POP! Everything ends except time, and all haps of yesteryears. Money May's groupies, flunkies, fanboys and fanfaronades are going to have a lot tears. The Universe has been wilding and childish for bit. So a lot of posts have been missed. This fight has brought the type that this following song warns about:
->https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJZcVi5BA4. Holla!
Hey Lone Ranger. Any chance you can let us know what, both that percentage is and also the difference between an active/passive defence and how the former applies to Pac? Love ya game and also . . .
Storm and literally tens of Australians over here say; "thanks for the laughs and. . . mucho 30,000-times-a-minute-cinnamon-circulation, and also . . . max-watermelon-seeds-relaxation-blast-to-the-we-neva-make-PacQueen-excuses-extremities" . . to ya. You're awsum. Keep on keeping the addictshun real and eternally shameless. :) [ 172800 Seconds Timer = 172799; start now; then insert picture of Donkey clown here if no appropriate response received when timer=0 ]


-stormcentre :

ent straight "politician mode" and did not commit. I was sure he favored Pac and would have stated so.
Cotto did favour Pac previously - you're right. But when put on the spot in front of distinguished and competent hosts (in the legends speak video) and most likely with the knowledge that his comments and answers were going to be viewed alongside other greats with real and proven knowledge; he seems to have backed off a little. That tells you a bit about how he felt fighting Floyd whilst Floyd - unlike Pac - had no weight handicap; yet, despite all that, still handed out a technical (by way of the confidence and skill level involved with some of the punches, combinations and their sequencing and execution perfection) schooling - one that was relatively undiminished by not only the success/damage that Cotto did occasionally do to Floyd - but also all the other things that were going on in Floyds life at the time. In my opinion, the facts that; A) Pac blew Cotto out in the last round of their fight; whilst Floyd defeated Cotto on points. B) Pac is a friend and gym-buddy of Cotto's. C) Pac and Miguel share the same trainer. Yet Cotto still not just failed to back up previous views by not openly supporting Pacquaio - but also made the conscious decision to back off from his public/previous stance on the fight's outcome whilst in the same gym as Pac; tells you a lot about not only how hard Floyd is to beat - but whom out of both Pac and Floyd resonates the loudest in the minds of common opponents long after the fight is over. Cotto knows that anyone pulling the moves that Floyd did on him without an advantage is special. Cause Cotto is as about as tough and well pedigreed as they come. Cotto also knows that when you're weight drained you can't fight at your best. Which, of course, is one very, very, significant opposite to how you fight full of EPO and/or any other special substance that Ariza may have given Pac at that stage of his career.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 For any PacQueens out there feeling offended about such a (reasonably substantiated) line, please don't shoot the messenger here. I didn't put any pills in Pac's hands and say please don't ever ask and/or tell Freddie about this substance that somehow helps you KO opponents - just as much as its absence ensures the same for your regular KO wins. Nevertheless, the absence of Ariza in Pac's camp (and blood) is something that may have a very telling influence on this fight. Furthermore, it is something overlooked by many PacQueens (of which I am not saying you are) as they swing from the chandeliers squirting about how his presence in Floyd's camp spells cheating and/or suspicion. That's a very interesting mix of selective recollections and Donkey-duplicity going on there, I think. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] Same with Oscar, he has bet against Floyd on every one of his fights for obvious bad blood reasons, but he too would not commit. I guess they are just like some of us that can't really call it. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about Oscar too. Oscar, whilst a great fighter in his time, really has come awfully unstuck with his predictions against Floyd over the last few years; prior to his last rehab. I actually think what (and how much) he said and how significantly wrong it was before the Mayweather V Alvarez fight contributed to his relapse. I mean, c'mon, seriously; he gave Canelo the blueprint on how to beat Floyd - by rushing in and not matching hand-speed? Seriously? One can only imagine how Oscar felt after Floyd countered and dominated Canelo so much that - as in the legends video they agree - Canelo stopped coming forward. Back to Oscar; he did well in his fight against Floyd. But fighting with all that nervous energy taxes you quickly; highlighting your lack of ring generalship and defence in the latter rounds. Perhaps Oscar forgot to chop "top of the line wood without glasses because that wood don't flick up", or something like that; I don't know. Cherry Juice smeared over the groin protector anyone? Seriously though, and magical and conveniently unsubstantiated "you're a mountain wrong because we never make excuses up" myths, aside; one thing was for sure. There was another reason that DeLa Hoya's attacking and pressure laden style didn't work. And that's because not only was there not enough thinking behind it - but also because there was very little defensive strategy layered into the overall battle-plan; so when Oscar got tired . . . . . Roach (a predominantly offensively minded guy) was Oscar's coach for that fight too, I believe. Sadly, almost the entire "Oscar beats Floyd strategy" seemed to rely on the jab and pressure; not enough. But when you don't know what is enough and/or explaining raises questions you don't want to answer; not enough often seems like it will do. Personally, I think, after all the past mishaps and the ocean of inaccurate Floyd V Opponent predictions, by Oscar - all as his promotional company relied upon and also made the big bucks from Floyd's fights - he has (finally) learnt to be cautious with both his forecasts and also that which he nasally consumes. Still, it is telling that - as with Cotto - Oscar prefers not to openly predict against Floyd; despite how much he wants him to lose. And that's (also) even though Pac (once again {as was the case with Cotto} with a weight handicap) stopped him in their fight; whilst Floyd did not, and instead won "only" on points. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] There is just too many what ifs and variables that can decide this fight. If I was 100% sure Floyd fought Maidana I and Cotto the way he did because he wanted to, not because he had too; I would be almost positive he would take this with relative ease. [/QUOTE] I took a look at the legends speak video last night, as I hadn't seen it before. I think - as you may have already suggested - big George was the only guy not openly backing Floyd. The rest (including the common opponents) backed Floyd and/or were not committing. And, even though those (common opponents) not committing to both support Pacquaio and provide a prediction were all guys that had been previously stopped by Manny (whilst "only" defeated on points by Floyd); it's interesting also that those same guys were also the same ones that had experienced the above-mentioned conclusive and concussive negative outcomes - whilst being either weight disadvantaged or whilst Pac was most likely juiced with liquids that Ariza would not tell Roach about (or both). To expand on this unpopular (but analytically important) line of thinking and discussion . . . . When a guy fights another that is weight drained that's one thing. When boxer "A" fights another (boxer) "B" whilst boxer "A" is PEDJuiced that's also another. And, of course, when boxer "A" fights boxer "B" whilst boxer "A" is not only PacJuiced - but also whilst boxer "B" is contractually weight drained, then that's also another matter entirely. Sometimes these extreme circumstances drive others - that are usually squeaky clean - to then take matters into their own hands; as they feel there is no way to compete with boxer "A" unless they have, at least some, of the same advantages. Now . . .of course this is only conjecture from this old dumb and na?ve azz that don't make Nunsubstantiated excuses, sitting behind the keyboard over in this part of the world; but, just maybe . . . maybe, perhaps . . . perhaps this is precisely what ""watermelon-seed-cinnamon-powder-prehistoric-do-do-bird-encapsulated-fart-laser-green-dolphin-eyes-in-tact-MermaidHymen"" happened with Marquez? Perhaps he realized that the playing field was not level, and was never going to be; so he leveled both it and Pac with the same (reasonably fair {considering the circumstances and that Pac has not sued Roach for claiming that Ariza was proving liquids/substances that were not - when asked - explained}) shot? Our Pilipino reporter Ronnie Nathanielsz seems to have overlooked any connections between these reasonably strong facts, including those that appear supported by Roach and Arum. Anyway, back to the legends video; Marquez' commentary was telling. Out of all the genuinely knowledgeable fans, previous opponents, celebrity fighters and also the PacQueens; he, I believe, knows Pacquaio the best. And I'm not just saying that cause he has iced Pac as cold as an IcePac either. OK, let's move to Floyd V Maidana. This is a fight that lends itself to PacQueen selective analysis almost as well as it has been claimed that Maidana punched Floyd's tooth out when that was most likely not the case; as white veneer aesthetic coatings often come lose in less stressful circumstances. Now, I can't really prove this, but I really do believe that Floyd's head was not (completely) in the Maidana fights. Add to all that we also have the - often conveniently overlooked (but extremely strong) possibility that Ariza was, at the time (as he probably was when Pac had some of his best wins) feeding Marcus the same performance enhancing substances, drinks, and things that both Arum and Roach have now effectively and openly admitted Pacjuice was sucking courtesy of Alex, leading to the very possible - fact that Maidana was not only exceptionally strong when he fought Floyd - but also extremely stamina laden. Aside from that coinciding with Pac, Maidana, and Rios, observations really well; all this adds up to a very hard and, at times, messy and difficult Maidana fight for Floyd. A fight that he still won most rounds in, still pulled off some good moves in, still adjusted in, and despite it all he still got the win. These are all powerful but objective observations/facts that support Floyd - observations/facts that are so compelling and interesting that (some; not all) PacQueens often feel they must interpret them as subjective (not objective) observations/facts; in order to justify their own next round of unchecked claims and Donkey-logic. Another good (comparable MayPac) observation may be how Pac didn't blow Rios out and/or stop him, and I can't recall if he dropped and/or even put a count on him. Rios is no Oscar or Cotto. Yet - from the reports I hear about Robert's gym - Maidana is a cut above Brandon and when the sparring between the two heats up . . Maidana is the one handing out the hiding. Read what you will into that and how, if, and why, it relates to both Floyd's fight with Maidana and also Pac's lack of one with Maidana (and whether Pac would have found the same Maidana easier than Floyd); despite how there were/are no promotional obligations to prevent such a Pacman V Maidana fight - when Pac actually opted for Brandon. Variables; I agree that there are a lot of variables.. [QUOTE=King Beef;80525] I think he would be able to somewhat offset Manny's crazy movement. Everybody always talks about Floyd's defense, I think it's gonna be Manny's defense that will play a bigger part in this fight. If he has sealed up some of the leaks and and not readily available to be hit, it could be rough night for $$$. It's gonna be a high speed chess match..which I still think favors $$$, but my common sense still had me bet the draw, and Pac. I still think its a smart bet. [/QUOTE] It's good that Pac can move; in, out, and about, with great speed and agility; seriously. Not many guys are as agile as Pacman is, and he has undoubtedly used that to great effect/success. But none of that will really matter ""if"" Manny can't easily come into punching range and/or land, when/if he wants to. Because then - if Pac can't land as he usually does by executing that little tell-tale half step/skip and/or jumping/rushing in - all he will be doing is moving around wasting energy without a significant purpose. Which, coincidentally, is what Zab Judah used to get away with before, and also what he did when, he fought Kostya Tzyu. At the top level of boxing (I tend to think) there usually should always be a purpose to the power/energy you expend; unless you want to "give" your opponent strategic options that can - if managed correctly - sometimes be converted into game-plan advantages and/or KO's. Which is exactly how Marquez iced Pac. I am (as you fairly say) guilty of talking about Floyd's defence a lot; so I will stand up and be counted there. But that said, I agree with you about Manny's defence being a factor too. I think it will be a factor of the fight. I am reasonably confident that - despite how composed and/or different from the norm that Pac may start the fight - the "Manny" leaks Pacquaio's defence usually has will not be sealed. To do that Pac's whole style and comfortableness with that style would need to be almost completely re-engineered. And I doubt Roach is the engineer to design such a transformation even if Pac were the ideal client/recipient for it. Additionally, aside from Toney (whom had most of his skills already down pat when he first walked through the WildCard doors); I have never seen a fighter from Roaches gym that has a truly great defensive game/strategy. And, just looking at all the Pacquaio fight scenes in the above-mentioned "legends" video you can easily see that Pac's hands are as low - just as much as his chin is high - almost every time he rushes in and starts his punch sequences. He won't change that now for all the above and more reasons. Essentially, Pac keeps throwing and throwing like this and with these liabilities regardless of whether he lands the first time (or others) or not. And, even aside from what happens and is also exposed when/if Pac doesn't get the first shot of a rushed combination in, but keeps proceeding; that's an awful lot of countering opportunities for Floyd - all whilst Floyd is safe behind his defence (that, in the context of southpaws, worked reasonably well against the fast handed Judah, and also Corely). Furthermore, if Floyd is not one of the best countering technicians out there I don't know who is. And guess who Pacquiao had/has a lot of issues with? Marquez, a great counter punching Mexican fighter; with very little active defence. I don't even need to get into the issues that both Bradley and Morales provided that Pac couldn't easily adjust to; that Mayweather excels in and can easily do better - whilst thinking a few steps ahead. So, back to Marquez; diving deeper into that (a great counter punching Mexican fighter with very little active defence) train of thought; Floyd hits harder, faster, and is smarter than Marquez. And that's whether Floyd is countering or not. Floyd not only counters acres faster, harder, and far better than Marquez; he also thinks about it and tags on clever defensive moves afterwards that sometimes not only leaves opponents swatting flies - but it also creates more openings for his fast, single, shots that are as easy for judges to score as they are hard to anticipate and counter. Some may disagree with me on this; but I believe also that Floyd easily has enough power to hurt Pac too. As does Pac Floyd. But Pac don't really know - or hasn't shown that he can - roll fast incoming shots to take the heat off them. Yet, Floyd can - and that's even if they don't come through his guard/defence and have their "momentum" and "energy" diminished due to that consideration. So, in my opinion, any . . . . . ""Snoop-Doggy-Dog-Mermaid-Do-Do-egg-shell-vapour-movie-star-knowing-cosmetologist-relation-lost-city-of-Alantis-in-tact-mermaid-hymen-claims"" asserting that Pac has great defence, should be considered in this context and that of the almost total absence of not just any real proof for such a claim - but also the almost total absence of any genuine and obvious willingness to prove and/or explain the claim. From his fights it's plain to see that (aside from a little jiggle and distraction jab) Pac simply just hopes he won't get hit as he comes in, throws combinations, and does his thing. And, whilst he fights guys that can't match his speed, intensity, and agility, that usually works. In this fight, Pac must come to Floyd and make the fight; otherwise it will probably be a fight at Floyd's tempo - which most people think is not the way to beat Floyd. However, Floyd likes that too and often guys are not successful with that strategy. I believe that Pac - if things don't go his way - will also become increasingly reckless. If that happens Roach won't know what to do. Slight change of tact here; one reason why many trainers/fighters try and fight Floyd the same way over and over is (not because it necessarily works {as we're all susceptible to pressure} and is smart, but) because that's all the options their skillset offers them. So . . they and their trainers (rather than say . . ""gee we dunno but we love these big purses"") talk about that strategy as if it is immaculate boxing-strategy conception deciphered from never before seen interpretations of the holy fighting Max Schmeling V Joe Louis grail. When it's simply the same meat and potato thing served up in the mess hall. Now, none of this means that I don't see issues for Floyd with what Pac can bring. But I see (more) difficulty for Pac whenever I think and write about the styles and how they match. And that's; A) Not just mostly because - for all the emotional and subjective variances on who people think Floyd is and what he should be as a boxer and person - at the end of the day Mayweather is a master boxer that has so many aspects of the game down pat that it's just hard to see how Pacquaio (whom has had most of his signature wins with both common and high profile {MayPac} opponents by way of either a contracted weight advantage and/or after Floyd defeated and deflowered them first; therefore telling you what Pac and Roach really think about how far Pac's ability can stretch) brings more to the table than Floyd, and will therefore win by both bringing less and using what will undoubtedly be a very similar strategy to many others that have tried against Floyd, but failed. B) But also due to the fact that Floyd can match Pac's speed, Floyd can adjust, Floyd can also take the fight to his skill-areas that Pac can't match, and also because I don't think Pacquaio can adjust (enough; if required). Also, if Manny is better (deeper) than Floyd in some areas - like say, intensity, and overall combination-speed-delivery - there is just so much (more) breadth to Floyd's skill set (than Pac's) . . . that means Floyd can simply lean on that and adjust; skills pay the bills - as they say. Perhaps I am saying the same thing twice there; apologies - as I probably said that above previously, albeit with different words. Finally, to me, the *common denominator with a usual Pacquaio opponent is; no defence, little ability to adjust, not a typically good strategist, easily lured into a shoot/trade-out session, little effective counterpunching skills, and short on comparable hand speed. And this is why Marquez gave Pac all kinds of issues. Plus, in my opinion, Roach, initially, thought Marquez would be (an easy Mexican fight) like Barrera; but when it then - after the first sensational fight - became a classic encounter its destiny as one of boxings' great tetralogies was as set in stone as the obligation to continue fighting Marquez in successive bouts; despite how he seemed to almost always present as a dangerous opponent for Pac. However, almost (if not) all those aforementioned *common denominator I above discussed and attributed to Pacquaio opponents; Floyd easily covers, and probably also surpasses even Marquez with. Now, also; Floyd - whilst admittedly and perhaps not having ever previously faced a guy with "both" Pac's southpaw combination-speed "and" fighting intensity at welterweight - certainly "has "faced fast lefty/righty fighters that equal Pacquaio's speed. Floyd has also faced guys that bring similar levels of pressure and intensity (to Pac) too. However, there is no (comparably) similar common denominator for Floyd's opponents'
attributes as there is with Pac's; as Mayweather can deal with guys that have speed, defence, and big time pressure. In my opinion that tells you something that you can only hear if you're being objective; which I know you are KB. Anyway, that's how I see it. Thanks for inspiring me to externalize those thoughts. Happy to hear any similar or opposing views you may have. Including those (often skipped over as if they don't exist; that may - metaphorically - have a PacQueen relationship to the incredibly hilarious “vampire facial blood doping claim”) related to whether Ariza not being in Pac's camp will have a bearing on the outcome. Cheers.


-stormcentre :


->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xtC9G5LGTw