Mayweather-Pacquiao Testing Kerfuffle Pops Up

mayweather-pacquiao

Take the test, take the test, he repeated, basically ad nauseum, for what seemed like years.

Yes, Floyd Mayweather was for a long spell guns a blazing about wanting Manny Pacquiao to undergo most stringent PED testing, and he implied that issue was the main hurdle to making the fight back in 2009, 2010, and beyond. That call to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that no banned chemicals were in his system lessened when Team Pacquiao leveled a defamation case at Mayweather, for making public statements which Pacman felt implied he was not a clean fighter, and slurred his rep. That case was settled and Mayweather had to pay Pac a money penalty, and apologize. Floyd Mayweather Sr and Jr put out a release which read, in part, they “wish to make it clear that they never intended to claim that Manny Pacquiao has used or is using any performance-enhancing drugs, nor are they aware of any evidence that Manny Pacquiao has used performance-enhancing drugs.”

Mayweather had jabbed at Pacman and said he was using “power pellets,” never specifying what might be in such pellets. Pacman gets hassled with insinuations frequently, with some naysayers noting that his power has dropped off of late, and many of them say they believe Mayweather maybe was suspicious of the Filipino and thus was inclined to hold off on booking a fight for that reason. Some would say Mayweather, even recently, has made subtle, periodic jabs that Pacquiao's success came about as a result of his work with strength and conditioning coach Alex Ariza. He never specified what it was Ariza did that was so telling, however, leaving it open to interpretation and speculation. Ariza himself has a pending case versus Pacman trainer Freddie Roach, alleging defamation surrounding a charge by Roach that Ariza supplied what he labeled iffy cocktails to the boxer when he was employed by Pacman, which he was up until late 2012. Yes, the PED/testing/allegation slurry has been a constant side-note issue in the soap opera that has been Mayweather-Pacquiao since 2009….and it took another turn today. Pacquiao advisor Michael Koncz spoke to LA Times reporter Lance Pugmire. He told the writer that Mayweather “refused to agree to a $5 million penalty for a positive drug test.” Koncz said that he wanted both fighters to agree to that massive punishment fee, but a Floyd lawyer nixed it, said Pugmire on Twitter. Koncz told Pugmire he was disappointed, that Floyd should set an example if he truly wants to be the leader in cleaning up the sport, as he has in the past stated. The advisor further stated that the fight could go on if one or I suppose both men tested positive, if the “dirty” fighter appealed the positive.

USADA, the US Anti-Doping Agency, is the body charged with doing the testing, and they do the same for the US Olympic program. Pugmire said he was told by “authorities” that the fight on May 2 could be “stopped on a dime” if someone tests positive. Pugmire told me those “authorities” are USDA people not authorized to discuss details of the testing plan, but ones “confident in their knowledge.

“I reached out to Team Mayweather, to see if he wanted to respond to the Pugmire story. I haven't heard back as yet. Typically, Floyd speaks to press minimally, usually favoring the website FightHype.com when he feels like talking.

I sent an email request for information and clarification to USADA, and heard back from PR person Christy McGee. Her reponse: “The Mayweather/Pacquiao testing program is 100% compliant with the World Anti-Doping Code. It calls for results to be expedited throughout the program and all results are immediately shared with the Nevada Commission. Any adverse findings are expedited and acted on immediately including prior to the fight, if any. More information on the Code and USADA protocols can be found online at www.USADA.org.”

A friend of mine with a strong base of knowledge in the PED testing sphere who wishes to remain out of the fray brought up some issues and points:

Who would adjudicate a 4-year suspension, that person wondered, after noting that Koncz believes that each fighter is subject to a “four-year competition ban” for a positive test. USADA? Boxing is subject to federal laws, and no testing body has governing control over boxing. No commission, I don't think would ever ban a boxer four years for a positive test, would they?

This expert is hoping the Nevada Commission will post all results of Mayweather and Pacquiao test results as they become available. This person also wonders how quickly USDADA would be sending results to the Nevada Commission. This issue popped up and blew back in the face of the UFC recently, so it bears asking.

We all wonder, I guess, does the agreement for Mayweather-Pacquiao testing mandate how quickly results get sent to the fighters…to the commission? I am also curious if the Nevada Commission is intimately knowledgable about the USADA agreement, or contract, for the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight testing, and if yes, have they agreed to all the language in there..and, if yes, or no, would they have the right to over-rule any sanctioning actions if USADA were inclined to levy them?

Yep, lots to ponder here. This story will be here for a spell, I suspect…

Follow Woods on Twitter:

WATCH RELATED VIDEOS ON BOXINGCHANNEL.TV

Comment on this article

COMMENTS

-stormcentre :

Yep, legislating (in law, and for the betterment of the sport) and also individually contracting (on fighter's behalves) for PEDs is a very, very, complicated issue. It's almost impossible to do both perfectly. I can't see any fighter - particularly of the magnitude of MayPac - being banned for 4 years in a way that could not itself - in some way - be circumvented. Most of the last (main) paragraph in this article comes down to what is commonly called (in Australian legal terms) "release and/or publication of discovered facts". Which is itself, another very messy area - itself closely and dangerously edging up against defamation law; which is why commissions and other agencies really don't like to deal with it unless procedure is crystal clear and agreed upon by all parties - which it never is. But then, borrowing from the logic of other threads/posts currently wriggling and weaving their way through the forum; perhaps this is a counter-conspiracy to set Floyd up. Sorry, I had to say that. :) As, I was wood-chopping this morning and as the axe struck some timber chipped/flicked up, bounced off my protective eyewear, and caught me on the cheek. And even though it was not my proprioceptive eye - it nevertheless still stimulated the splinter of my actual mind's (very perceptive) eye - leading to the rock-solid conclusion - that is also confirmed, supported, and echoed right here and throughout the above-mentioned threads/posts - that the wood itself was at fault due to the conspiratorial "fact" that it was not "high quality" wood. That wood (not EM) must hate Floyd. Take it easy cool cats, regardless of who wins this fight, in some ways we all do; cause it will be a good fight that we're all interested in.


-pikon :

Who is gonna be blamed if Mayweather is tested positive, Heredia or Ariza?...


-deepwater2 :

Strange lil Floyd won't accept the $5 million sanction for a positive result.Seems fair. How long were Floyds gym mates banned for their positive tests?


-pikon :

I f Floyd Mayweather is tested positive there is a possibility that the fight will still go on..Manny should have proposed $12.5 million to cover the cost of mansion he just bought in case Floyd refused to fight.


-Radam G :

Strange lil Floyd won't accept the $5 million sanction for a positive result.Seems fair. How long were Floyds gym mates banned for their positive tests?
It depends on which ones that you are referring to. The dirtiest one caught -- Micky Bey -- with 30-to-1 ratio was fined $1500 and banned for a couple of months. Three or four others were given warnings. And about seven got dirty doctors to get them out of suspensions by claiming that they had prescriptions for "Low T." And about three or four were not banned because of "possible positive results because of lab mishandling." Holla!


-Radam G :

I f Floyd Mayweather is tested positive there is a possibility that the fight will still go on..Manny should have proposed $12.5 million to cover the cost of mansion he just bought in case Floyd refused to fight.
BTW, tsAH has made positive tests of Lil Floyd and other pugs signed by tsAH vanish. Even if he doesn't make syet disappear, those pugs under his flagship still are allowed to scrap in most U.S. mainland states and areas. Two dirty pugs that come mind are Andre Berto and the great Erik Morales. Holla!


-Radam G :

There is more about the 5mil deal in the following FIGHTHYPE interview:
->http://m.YouTube.com/watch?v=3lMLg8jluKM. Holla!


-deepwater2 :

The more I hear of this the more I don't like it. Both boxers are taking the tests and that should be the end of it. But it is not the end of it. The talk about fines and drugs added up with the fact that Floyd has Ariza,who has been in camps where the fighter has failed the tests(never Pac) and Heredia, a known steroid guru who brags about his chemistry in making 20 drugs that can not be detected , smells fishy. Floyd pretends he doesn't know what TRT is,when high school kids get lessons on it, smells funny too. Everyone knows about floyd's tests in the past. I hope this fight happens and doesn't end up in the toilet due to steroid tests and nonsense like that. You think Ali would back out of a fight if the other guy took drugs? he would tell him to take more and whoop him.


-Radam G :

Lil Fraud -- I mean Lil Floyd -- and USADA are some crookie bytches. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. And their arses have been called out. And they are guilty as sin. And this is why they don't sue. Money May is going to be double full of dat syet. And will still get his arse handed to him by Da Manny. Money May and USADA are dirty:
->www.boxing.com/drug_interactions.html. Don't forget that VADA caught both Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto when USADA did not when organizations were hired to test in the same bouts. Also don't forget that the weak-@$$ Cali State Athletic Commission caught Antonio Tarver as USADA tried to clear him for the IBO, which cleared him when he was dirty when he won the IBO Cruiserweight title from Aussie Dave Green. Holla!


-stormcentre :

Until we see the actual contents of the USADA contract, and what precisely is being tested for, we will never know how tight and effective it really is. I suspect, though, it is not all that tight. USADA, have previously, seemed to be more susceptible to working with testing protocols and procedures (and therefore contract design) that will not throw a positive in circumstances where other organisations (like VADA) would probably throw a negative. VADA was never going to get the gig for this fight; they - I believe - know what they're doing too much and they do it so well that there are very few believable "excuses" and "back doors" available (to clients and fighters) when a positive does get thrown. I think Ariza (and/or Heredia; if it is a known fact) in Floyd's corner, team or pocket (take your pick) is suspicious; even without considering all the juiced up muscle heads that seem to constitute Floyd's security and sometimes boxing team. I probably shouldn't say this - and it is just my opinion and I can't prove it - but I will be very surprised if the USADA contract overlooks a new molecular compound or strain of PES that has a similar performance effect to EPO. I think both guys have used PEDs before, and the pressure for both guys to win is going to be so huge in this fight that, if they can access a substance that they're not getting tested for and at the same time - via the USADA contract - provide the outward appearance that PED testing is being adhered to, fine and dandy; that new substance will find its way into their veins faster than premature ejeculation sets in on this forum with some subjects. MMMRG, Tarver tested positive, later, after Danny (not Dave) Green got knocked out in his fight with Antonio. Although highly suspicious, it was never proven that Tarver fought Green whilst loaded. Green, a very tough light heavyweight and cruiserweight (who made a high profile public name for himself by both losing to and badmouthing Mundine; not the other way around) was always technically (and, later in his career, also cardiovascularly) limited. Particularly when faced with "A" grade competition. Deep, good line about Ali. He probably would just tell the guy too go home and juice up, but just make sure you show up for that major league azz whipping that's coming your way this Saturday. Finally, I think that TMT's reason for rejecting the $5 million fee for throwing a positive test is captured pretty nicely in the link MMMRG provided. Even Arum conceded it was due to TMT not wanting to limit liability if Pacquaio threw a positive test - which seems to be a view (in reverse) that Pacman's team also (now) shares. Therefore, (aside from the issue getting back to what I mentioned in the opening line of this post) it seems like Koncz . . . was . . probably . . . being a . . . . . Koncz. I do not believe anyone will test positive for this fight. I believe there will be a list of banned substances that each fighter will get tested for, and that on that list will not be any substance that either guy intends to (or is) using; if indeed they are. That's (in my opinion) what time it is.


-stormcentre :

Until we see the actual contents of the USADA contract, and what precisely is being tested for, we will never know how tight and effective it really is. I suspect, though, it is not all that tight. USADA, have previously, seemed to be more susceptible to working with testing protocols and procedures (and therefore contract design) that will not throw a positive in circumstances where other organisations (like VADA) would probably throw a negative. VADA was never going to get the gig for this fight; they - I believe - know what they're doing too much and they do it so well that there are very few believable "excuses" and "back doors" available (to clients and fighters) when a positive does get thrown. I think Ariza (and/or Heredia; if it is a known fact) in Floyd's corner, team or pocket (take your pick) is suspicious; even without considering all the juiced up muscle heads that seem to constitute Floyd's security and sometimes boxing team. I probably shouldn't say this - and it is just my opinion and I can't prove it - but I will be very surprised if the USADA contract doesn't overlook a new molecular compound or strain of PES that has a similar performance effect to EPO. I think both guys have used PEDs before, and the pressure for both guys to win is going to be so huge in this fight that, if they can access a substance that they're not getting tested for and at the same time - via the USADA contract - provide the outward appearance that PED testing is being adhered to, fine and dandy; that new substance will find its way into their veins faster than premature ejeculation sets in on this forum with some subjects. MMMRG, Tarver tested positive, later, after Danny (not Dave) Green got knocked out in his fight with Antonio. Although highly suspicious, it was never proven that Tarver fought Green whilst loaded. Green, a very tough light heavyweight and cruiserweight (who made a high profile public name for himself by both losing to and badmouthing Mundine; not the other way around) was always technically (and, later in his career, also cardiovascularly) limited. Particularly when faced with "A" grade competition. Deep, good line about Ali. He probably would just tell the guy too go home and juice up, but just make sure you show up for that major league azz whipping that's coming your way this Saturday. Finally, I think that TMT's reason for rejecting the $5 million fee for throwing a positive test is captured pretty nicely in the link MMMRG provided. Even Arum conceded it was due to TMT not wanting to limit liability if Pacquaio threw a positive test - which seems to be a view (in reverse) that Pacman's team also (now) shares. Therefore, (aside from the issue getting back to what I mentioned in the opening line of this post) it seems like Koncz . . . was . . probably . . . being a . . . . . Koncz. I do not believe anyone will test positive for this fight. I believe there will be a list of banned substances that each fighter will get tested for, and that on that list will not be any substance that either guy intends to (or is) using; if indeed they are. That's (in my opinion) what time it is.


-stormcentre :

Until we see the actual contents of the USADA contract, and what precisely is being tested for, we will never know how tight and effective it really is. I suspect, though, it is not all that tight. USADA, have previously, seemed to be more susceptible to working with testing protocols and procedures (and therefore contract design) that will not throw a positive in circumstances where other organisations (like VADA) would probably throw a negative. VADA was never going to get the gig for this fight; they - I believe - know what they're doing too much and they do it so well that there are very few believable "excuses" and "back doors" available (to clients and fighters) when a positive does get thrown. I think Ariza (and/or Heredia; if it is a known fact) in Floyd's corner, team or pocket (take your pick) is suspicious; even without considering all the juiced up muscle heads that seem to constitute Floyd's security and sometimes boxing team. I probably shouldn't say this - and it is just my opinion and I can't prove it - but I will be very surprised if the USADA contract doesn't overlook a new molecular compound or strain of PES that has a similar performance effect to EPO. I think both guys have used PEDs before, and the pressure for both guys to win is going to be so huge in this fight that, if they can access a substance that they're not getting tested for and at the same time - via the USADA contract - provide the outward appearance that PED testing is being adhered to, fine and dandy; that new substance will find its way into their veins faster than premature ejeculation sets in on this forum with some subjects. MMMRG, Tarver tested positive, later, after Danny (not Dave) Green got knocked out in his fight with Antonio. Although highly suspicious, it was never proven that Tarver fought Green whilst loaded. Green, a very tough light heavyweight and cruiserweight (who made a high profile public name for himself by both losing to and badmouthing Mundine; not the other way around) was always technically (and, later in his career, also cardiovascularly) limited. Particularly when faced with "A" grade competition. Deep, good line about Ali. He probably would just tell the guy too go home and juice up, but just make sure you show up for that major league azz whipping that's coming your way this Saturday. Finally, I think that TMT's reason for rejecting the $5 million fee for throwing a positive test is captured pretty nicely in the link MMMRG provided. Even Arum conceded it was due to TMT not wanting to limit liability if Pacquaio threw a positive test - which seems to be a view (in reverse) that Pacman's team also (now) shares. Therefore, (aside from the issue getting back to what I mentioned in the opening line of this post) it seems like Koncz . . . was . . probably . . . being a . . . . . Koncz. I do not believe anyone will test positive for this fight. I believe there will be a list of banned substances that each fighter will get tested for, and that on that list will not be any substance that either guy intends to (or is) using; if indeed they are. That's (in my opinion) what time it is.


-stormcentre :

Just read this . . .
->http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-pacquiao-ped-fine-much-higher-5-million--88751


-King Beef :

I can't see either guy doing anything stupid to ruin the money to be made, legacy, etc. (although the pressure to get THIS win is high). With that said it is alittle eye raising Ariza (and the mystery shakes) and now Heredia??? working with May.


-brownsugar :

This story was a publicity grabbing sound bite manufactured by the day late and dollar short, rabbit mind of Michael Koentz. No one is going to settle for a feeble penalty of 5 million dollars when the fight is worth hundreds of millions......if Floyd or Pac pop up guilty of ingesting PED' s. Even Arum said he agreed with Mayweather's position for turning down the impotent jester. I mean gesture. Then the media got involved but many outlets didnt fully comprehend the context of what Mayweathers refusal of the terms meant. If someone is found guilty of using before the fight the event will be called off. The guilty party will be sued for expenditures by those who have invested in the event and the fine will be determined by the Nevada Commission. And I guarantee you ....any fines being levied will dwarf the paltry 5 million dollar fine offered by Keontz. Regarding Heredia, who is advising many champions and top pospects..... Has gone on record as saying he was open to working with Floyd but eventually he didnt get tabbed for the job. Once a trainer reaches the level of success Heredia has recently in professional boxing....... Any criminal activity on his behalf would effectively place him into the category of a serial offender and effectively end his career. Happy witch hunting.... Lol. You can bet that if either one of these guys were juicing, they cycled off long before the time needed to obfruscate the results.


-Radam G :

This story was a publicity grabbing sound bite manufactured by the day late and dollar short, rabbit mind of Michael Koentz. No one is going to settle for a feeble penalty of 5 million dollars when the fight is worth hundreds of millions......if Floyd or Pac pop up guilty of ingesting PED' s. Even Arum said he agreed with Mayweather's position for turning down the impotent jester. I mean gesture. Then the media got involved but many outlets didnt fully comprehend the context of what Mayweathers refusal of the terms meant. If someone is found guilty of using before the fight the event will be called off. The guilty party will be sued for expenditures by those who have invested in the event and the fine will be determined by the Nevada Commission. And I guarantee you ....any fines being levied will dwarf the paltry 5 million dollar fine offered by Keontz. Regarding Heredia, who is advising many champions and top pospects..... Has gone on record as saying he was open to working with Floyd but eventually he didnt get tabbed for the job. Once a trainer reaches the level of success Heredia has recently in professional boxing....... Any criminal activity on his behalf would effectively place him into the category of a serial offender and effectively end his career. Happy witch hunting.... Lol. You can bet that if either one of these guys were juicing, they cycled off long before the time needed to obfruscate the results.
Because of rule changes by The World Doping Agency, Fam May and tsAH drop dat bytch Heredia like a bad habit. That ruling has put him out of openly world pugs from this out. You can read that on another TSS Thread. Nobody has been witch hunting Lil Floyd. He has enough on his hands. Holla!


-Radam G :

This story was a publicity grabbing sound bite manufactured by the day late and dollar short, rabbit mind of Michael Koentz. No one is going to settle for a feeble penalty of 5 million dollars when the fight is worth hundreds of millions......if Floyd or Pac pop up guilty of ingesting PED' s. Even Arum said he agreed with Mayweather's position for turning down the impotent jester. I mean gesture. Then the media got involved but many outlets didnt fully comprehend the context of what Mayweathers refusal of the terms meant. If someone is found guilty of using before the fight the event will be called off. The guilty party will be sued for expenditures by those who have invested in the event and the fine will be determined by the Nevada Commission. And I guarantee you ....any fines being levied will dwarf the paltry 5 million dollar fine offered by Keontz. Regarding Heredia, who is advising many champions and top pospects..... Has gone on record as saying he was open to working with Floyd but eventually he didnt get tabbed for the job. Once a trainer reaches the level of success Heredia has recently in professional boxing....... Any criminal activity on his behalf would effectively place him into the category of a serial offender and effectively end his career. Happy witch hunting.... Lol. You can bet that if either one of these guys were juicing, they cycled off long before the time needed to obfruscate the results.
Because of rule changes by The World Doping Agency, Fam May and tsAH drop dat bytch Heredia like a bad habit. That ruling has put him out of openly world pugs from this out. You can read that on another TSS Thread. Nobody has been witch hunting Lil Floyd. He has enough on his hands. Holla!


-King Beef :

That is a good point B-Sug, 5 mil is peanuts compared to what will be sued for by the parties involved. As far as Ariza and Heredia; I see May and Pac as fine tuned machines, if you mess with what has been working too much, it could back fire. on that note, Ariza was working with Pac when he was on his terror streak so who knows, he might be beneficial to $$May. Still got $$May pulling it out, but Pac at almost 2 to 1 was too good to pass up


-Radam G :

Lil Fraud -- I mean Lil Floyd -- and USADA are some crookie bytches. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. And their arses have been called out. And they are guilty as sin. And this is why they don't sue. Money May is going to be double full of dat syet. And will still get his arse handed to him by Da Manny. Money May and USADA are dirty:
->www.boxing.com/drug_interactions.html. Don't forget that VADA caught both Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto when USADA did not when organizations were hired to test in the same bouts. Also don't forget that the weak-@$$ Cali State Athletic Commission caught Antonio Tarver as USADA tried to clear him for the IBO, which cleared him when he was dirty when he won the IBO Cruiserweight title from Aussie Dave Green. Holla!
[QUOTE=King Beef;78278]That is a good point B-Sug, 5 mil is peanuts compared to what will be sued for by the parties involved. As far as Ariza and Heredia; I see May and Pac as fine tuned machines, if you mess with what has been working too much, it could back fire. on that note, Ariza was working with Pac when he was on his terror streak so who knows, he might be beneficial to $$May. Still got $$May pulling it out, but Pac at almost 2 to 1 was too good to pass up[/QUOTE] The world might end tomorrow too. Alex ain't gonna do syet. Besides, he was a glorified massage therapist and water boy for Da Manny. And that is what he is for Lil Floyd. But if Ariza start meddling, trying to take over and coach, Lil Floyd, Big Floyd, "Flomo" Leonard Ellerbee and tsAH are going to dump Alex, as did Trainers Freddie Roach and Robert Garcia. Holla!


-stormcentre :

I can't see either guy doing anything stupid to ruin the money to be made, legacy, etc. (although the pressure to get THIS win is high). With that said it is a little eye raising Ariza (and the mystery shakes) and now Heredia??? working with May.
Agreed. Smart comments. [QUOTE=brownsugar;78275]This story was a publicity grabbing sound bite manufactured by the day late and dollar short, rabbit mind of Michael Koentz. No one is going to settle for a feeble penalty of 5 million dollars when the fight is worth hundreds of millions......if Floyd or Pac pop up guilty of ingesting PED' s. Even Arum said he agreed with Mayweather's position for turning down the impotent jester. I mean gesture. Then the media got involved but many outlets didnt fully comprehend the context of what Mayweathers refusal of the terms meant. If someone is found guilty of using before the fight the event will be called off. The guilty party will be sued for expenditures by those who have invested in the event and the fine will be determined by the Nevada Commission. And I guarantee you ....any fines being levied will dwarf the paltry 5 million dollar fine offered by Keontz. Regarding Heredia, who is advising many champions and top pospects..... Has gone on record as saying he was open to working with Floyd but eventually he didnt get tabbed for the job. Once a trainer reaches the level of success Heredia has recently in professional boxing....... Any criminal activity on his behalf would effectively place him into the category of a serial offender and effectively end his career. Happy witch hunting.... Lol. You can bet that if either one of these guys were juicing, they cycled off long before the time needed to obfruscate the results.[/QUOTE] Ahh . . . a breath of fresh thinking has swept through on this matter. At last. Floyd drops a million Big Benjamins on a basket or foot ball game. Like - even if, he or Pacman are really jungle-juicing with anything that they will actually get caught with (by USADA . . . c'mon. . who? LMFAO) - he wanted to limit the; shame, embarrassment and costs for Pacquaio if someone gets caught (remember, Floyd, like any top professional fighter always thinks it is the other guy going down). USADA are so far behind the frontier of PES research and design that they haven't even sucked in the dust yet that trails in the wake of the "chemists", whom are very possibly "like" Heredia. That said, these are just my guesses and estimations, and as such they're not proven or fact. I'd love to see that testing/USADA contract - but I won't hold my breath.


-King Beef :

The world might end tomorrow too. Alex ain't gonna do syet. Besides, he was a glorified massage therapist and water boy for Da Manny. And that is what he is for Lil Floyd. But if Ariza start meddling, trying to take over and coach, Lil Floyd, Big Floyd, "Flomo" Leonard Ellerbee and tsAH are going to dump Alex, as did Trainers Freddie Roach and Robert Garcia. Holla!
You could be right, wouldn't be surprised if Ariza is just another head game being played. The world could end tomorrow, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's anybodys fight to win.