Mayweather Being Unbeaten Isn’t As Meaningful As “Money” Thinks It is

In a recent article in the International Business Times (12/24/14), former six-division title-holder Oscar De La Hoya stated who he’d favor between Floyd Mayweather 47-0 (26) and Philippine sensation Manny Pacquiao 57-5-2 (38). De La Hoya isn’t exactly someone who I’d consider an objective observer, but what gives him credibility over most others is, Oscar fought Mayweather in 2007 and Pacquiao in 2008. At the time when he fought both, Oscar was an empty package and a shot fighter. He lost to both but competed with Mayweather on almost even terms, but not so much so against Pacquiao. This is something that had more to do with styles than it was/is a barometer as to who would win between Floyd and Manny.

In regards to how a confrontation between Mayweather and Pacquiao would unfold, Oscar said, “Mayweather has an edge now over Manny just because of the fact that Pacquiao’s skills have declined because of the numerous intense battles that he had fought.” I think he is pretty much on point with this assertion.

However, De La Hoya also said that, “Even though (I) favor Mayweather to win, (I) believe that the world will remember Pacquiao more than Mayweather…Pacquiao will earn more respect than Mayweather.”

“There is no doubt about that,” De La Hoya continued. “With Manny Pacquiao they are going to say ‘wow, he fought all these guys, fought tough battles and gave us all these fights.’

“Who has the better legacy, Pacquiao or Mayweather?” Oscar said, in closing.

Which is not only a great question, it’s a revealing question and it’s not at all difficult to answer. Pacquiao clearly has the better legacy, and it isn’t so much that he’s won a world title in eight different weight divisions, it’s more based on how he’s never avoided a tough opponent and fought and defeated some legitimate all-time greats while they were at or near the top of their game. The fight not happening between Mayweather and Pacquiao is so far past its due date that even Mayweather’s biggest media defenders and supporters have recently said if Floyd doesn’t fight Pacquiao, that’s what he’ll be most remembered for, not going undefeated.

Since former heavyweight champ Rocky Marciano retired undefeated 49-0 in 1955, some of the greatest of the greats have come along and compiled some of boxing’s most historic and iconic legacies. Fighters the likes of Emile Griffith, Luis Rodriguez, Sonny Liston, Bob Foster, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Carlos Monzon, Roberto Duran, George Foreman, Marvin Hagler, Larry Holmes, Alexis Arguello, Sugar Ray Leonard, Aaron Pryor, Salvador Sanchez, Michael Spinks, Thomas Hearns, Julio Cesar Chavez, Lennox Lewis, Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins. And it’s interesting that if you put all of their careers under a microscope, they have one thing in common….and that’s aside from Marciano, not one of them retired undefeated and nobody even cares about that because it’s meaningless.

Ask yourself this, how many fight aficionados do you know and respect rank Marciano as the greatest heavyweight in history? If you take it a step further, how many do you know who would pick Rocky to beat Liston, who lost four times, Ali, who lost five times, Frazier, who lost four times, Foreman, who lost five times, Holmes, who lost six times or Lewis, who lost twice? Being undefeated really isn’t such a big deal and in Marciano’s defense, perhaps he may have been the greatest. The problem is, the only great fighters who were around during his era were all way past their prime and because of that many dismiss him being undefeated. But what separates him from Mayweather is this– Marciano certainly didn’t avoid anybody who was a threat to beat him like we all know Mayweather has.

If being undefeated means so much in sports, how come most NFL historians don’t consider the 1972 Miami Dolphins (17-0) the greatest team in NFL history? They are the only NFL team in history to finish a season unbeaten and un-tied and win the championship. The 1972 Dolphins have a record no other NFL team can boast, whereas there have been more than a handful of fighters who won a world championship and retired unbeaten. The reason most NFL experts don’t rank the 1972 Dolphins as the greatest NFL team ever, rightly or wrongly, is because they only played two teams during the regular season that finished with a winning record. But that wasn’t their fault, they didn’t make their schedule. However, unlike the NFL or college football, boxers, when they become superstars, can actually pick and choose who they want to fight. In essence, some fighters can make their own schedules.

If being undefeated is the be all end all, why are the Florida State Seminoles (13-0) ranked third in the country going into their semifinal playoff Rose Bowl game against #2 Oregon (12-1) on New Year’s day? Think about it, Florida State is unbeaten in their last 29 games and hasn’t lost since 11/24/12. They’re the defending national champions and their quarterback has never lost as a starter. Yet they’re ranked behind #1 Alabama (12-1) and # 2 Oregon (12-1) because the members of the championship committee believe the Seminoles played a soft schedule……and had too many close calls where they almost lost to Notre Dame (7-5), Miami (6-7), and Boston College (7-6). But is that Florida States’ fault? Their schedule was made three or four months in advance. They couldn’t pick or chose who they wanted to play.

The point is, regardless of the sport, you are who you fought or played. Had Alabama or Oregon played FSU’s schedule, the thought of the committee is they probably would’ve gone undefeated too like Florida State. Had the 1978 Steelers played the same schedule as the 1972 Dolphins, most NFL historians believe they also would’ve gone undefeated. Had Sonny Liston or Muhammad Ali fought all 49 of Marciano’s opponents on the night Rocky fought them, the odds are overwhelming that Sonny and Muhammad would have also gone 49-0.

If Emile Griffith, Luis Rodriguez, Sugar Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns fought every opponent Mayweather did on the night he fought them, they’d have reached 47-0 too. But on the flip side, had Mayweather fought every opponent that Griffith, Rodriguez, Leonard and Hearns did on the night they fought them, Floyd most likely would’ve lost more times than the before-mentioned did. And he would’ve come out of it a much better fighter than he is today, undefeated.

Every all-time great listed above had a career rival who they fought, and in many cases more than once. Floyd Mayweather can’t say that. He’s only fought two rematches in his career, and that was because his victories over Jose Luis Castillo and Marcos Maidana were seen as controversial in some circles after their first meeting. And that’s what hyped the rematch. It wasn’t as if the boxing world was on edge waiting for Mayweather-Castillo or Mayweather-Maidana to happen.

Floyd has been a professional boxer since 1996, he was blessed with a hall-of-fame skill set that he cultivated and nurtured into a remarkable career. Boxing fans have deemed Manny Pacquiao as his most worthy challenger and that’s the only fight they care about regarding his participation. Many understand that Mayweather briefly retired to avoid fighting Antonio Margarito and Paul Williams when they were at their peak as well as possessing a fighting style that would’ve troubled him. Also, both Margarito and Williams lobbied to fight Floyd, but once he retired they willingly fought each other. Well, that’s water under the bridge now. All that’s left is for Mayweather to fight Pacquiao, and finally, after almost 19 years as a pro, give the fans what they really want.

Mayweather can run his record to 60-0 and retire, it won’t matter. If he doesn’t face Pacquiao before he hangs up his gloves, that is what he’ll be most remembered for. And not fighting Pacquiao will be his everlasting legacy. And it is getting to the point now to where those in his inner circle have admitted that to some in the media, such as ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith.

If Floyd Mayweather doesn’t fight Manny Pacquiao, his name may still one day be lumped with the above icons, but it will be indisputable that his legacy will be the most hollow of the group. And for that reason, Mayweather is I think closer to clashing with the declining Pacquiao because he has to, not because he wants to.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

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COMMENTS

-deepwater2 :

Bingo.


-CPX :

Nice one Frank! Call me a fool but I'm beginning to NOT want this fight anymore, simply to ensure that King Duck IS remembered for his shady maneuvers over the years with the highlight of course being the duck of 'Da Manny' I really wish he'd retire so we can all move on, Zzzzzzzz...


-Froggy :

History will/might show that Mayweather ducked Pacquiao, but it will show how someone Mayweather ducked, Marguarito did against Pacquiao, and Pacquiao ended his career ! I hope Frank is right, and Floyd HAS TO fight Pacquiao for any kind of legacy to be really proud of !


-thegreyman :

It's meaningful to 'Money', in terms of money. That is, cold hard cash. To him that's all that matters. Sure his legacy takes a hit by not having fought everyone he could, but as he's stated many times in interviews, when his career ends in a couple of years, he'll still have wealth (in the hundreds of millions...), health, a family for which he can provide the best. That's more than anyone coud have dreamed of when he first put the gloves on. When fans move on to the next attraction, Floyd will still have everything that he went through 20 years of brutal prize fighting to get. Being criticised by a bunch of people he's never meet, and likely never will, probably wont bother him. Does Floyd even care that much about his legacy at this point? I don't believe it. Having started boxing so young and carried it to the highest level, and then maintaining that for years and years of fighting and fighting and training and more training, boxing is likely more of a reluctant job to Mayweather than a passion he enjoys. Sure he's still competetive, but evidently doesn't care quite enough to get in the ring with certain people. Being undefeated still matters to his pay cheque, and that's all that matters at this point. It's a promotional issue. Would anyone care about Floyd if he'd been beated once or twice? No. His style is not friendly to the average viewer, he's getting old and has no power, and there are numerous young, powerfull and hungry knockout artists to watch instead. If Floyd had been defeated, there would be no hype around 'the one to do it', no 'May-vinchi' code to be cracked, and no 'TBE' to shut up once and for all. He'd still be an attraction for sure, but I seriously doubt he'd be topping Forbes year after year.


-Froggy :

I am afraid you might be right greyman, only money matters to Floyd and his is getting PPV numbers only because people want to see him lose his 0 ! The PPV numbers might be very, very low without people paying to see him lose, who pays to see him in an exciting fight ? NOBODY !


-Gitan :

At this stage, regardless of a Mayweather win over Pacquio assuming they finally square off, Mayweather will still go down in boxing history as having ducked Pacquio when they both we're in their prime. And so, five years later, Mayweather is doomed if he does win, but even moreso should he lose which wouldn't surprise me one bit. There is nothing he can do now to ever redeem his image that he and only he destroyed and keeps destroying at every opportunity he gets. He will go down in history as a very talented fighter who made a career fighting over-the-hill or inexperienced opponents but never manned up to face the real and determining challenges when they we're offered and refused to respect the wishes of fight fans. He will never be a "people's champion". "Triumph without peril, brings no glory"!


-deepwater2 :

I rate Macho Camacho higher than Lil Floyd on the all time list.


-SouthPawFlo :

It says a lot about a fighter when he has took a lost against professional fighters in almost 20 years. Boxing is a sport when 1 mistake at the right time can result in you going to sleep, or 1-2 too close to call rounds can cost you a fight, so to go Undefeated and be fighting on a Championship Level is something to be applauded... If Floyd was White and didn't ruffle as many feather with his outside the ring Antics, yet had the same in ring track record he would be a Billionaire....


-stormcentre :

Bingo; Froggy & Greyman. Being unbeaten has never before been able to monetarily mean so much. And, justifiably, that's the most important thing about fighting for Floyd. I frequently hear people speak highly of Rocky Marciano and when they do they never say his unbeaten record is a negative/distraction (despite how his competition may have not been as tough as other historical and modern day heavyweights). In fact, unless comparing him to other all time greats, Rocky Marciano's unbeaten record and achievements are almost always discussed in a positive light. And, I think that's not just because of his fighting style and success - but also because no matter who you are, being and/or staying unbeaten in boxing - particularly heavyweight boxing - is always difficult. As 1 punch can change a fight and fighter's career/life. Mayweather is the world's highest paid athlete, and he calls all the shots. I doubt that has nothing to do with being unbeaten and I think that, as time passes, if he remains unbeaten, his (unbeaten) record, alias and achievements, will all be of significance; regardless of whether he fights Pacquaio or not (ducking never hurt SRR legacy/history) - but even more so if he fights Pacquaio and wins - which is not at all unlikely. Floyd Mayweather Jr may not be the best ever. But he will go down as one of the all time greats. Furthermore, his unbeaten record (if it stays that way) will have some relevance to that for many reasons, including the facts that Floyd; a) Is a rare/pure, successful, slick, slip and slide, stylist, and defensive boxer. b) Has made his unbeaten record both relevant and lucrious, and (if nothing else) Showtimes' record breaking contract and all the (earning, production and other) rights it describes Floyd having clearly substantiates that. But hey, that's just my opinion, . .. which, at best, is probably all Frank Lotierzo was trying to elicit.


-stormcentre :

Bingo; Froggy & Greyman. Being unbeaten has never before been able to monetarily mean so much. And, justifiably, that's the most important thing about fighting for Floyd. I frequently hear people speak highly of Rocky Marciano and when they do they never say his unbeaten record is a negative/distraction (despite how his competition may have not been as tough as other historical and modern day heavyweights). In fact, unless comparing him to other all time greats, Rocky Marciano's unbeaten record and achievements are almost always discussed in a positive light. And, I think that's not just because of his fighting style and success - but also because no matter who you are, being and/or staying unbeaten in boxing - particularly heavyweight boxing - is always difficult. As 1 punch can change a fight and fighter's career/life. Mayweather is the world's highest paid athlete, and he calls all the shots. I doubt that has nothing to do with being unbeaten and I think that, as time passes, if he remains unbeaten, his (unbeaten) record, alias and achievements, will all be of significance; regardless of whether he fights Pacquaio or not (ducking never hurt SRR legacy/history) - but even more so if he fights Pacquaio and wins - which is not at all unlikely. Floyd Mayweather Jr may not be the best ever. But he will go down as one of the all time greats. Furthermore, his unbeaten record (if it stays that way) will have some relevance to that for many reasons, including the facts that Floyd; a) Is a rare/pure, successful, slick, slip and slide, stylist, and defensive boxer. b) Has made his unbeaten record both relevant and lucrious, and (if nothing else) Showtimes' record breaking contract and all the (earning, production and other) rights it describes Floyd having clearly substantiates that. But hey, that's just my opinion, . .. which, at best, is probably all Frank Lotierzo was trying to elicit.


-pikon :

manny pacquaio and other great fighters have been to "war" before they became what they are/were...floyd had been to ballroom dancing...


-stormcentre :

manny pacquaio and other great fighters have been to "war" before they became what they are/were...floyd had been to ballroom dancing...
Welcome Pikon, and excuse me? Or, as the holy father said to the virgin Mary; "come again". Sure, I have no issue with anyone bolstering their view of either Pacquaio or Mayweather's superiority as both guys have their strong and not so strong points - but how has Floyd not gone to war with other great fighters? Check his career in the lighter (than welterweight) weights; there is some of the most brilliant, fluid, and dynamic dominations, beat-downs and contests there - with mad skills on display that leave Pacquaio for dead - even if Pacquaio has trodden the least managed path - which I have no problem with you making a case for. After you have looked at Floyd's fights in the lighter (than welterweight) weights, then take the time out to have a look at who he has fought over the last 5 years at welterweight and/or above. Sure some have been curious and timely selections . . but Floyd has still fought some very tough fights and won. For example, just prior to going to jail and with that on his mind he fought Cotto at Cotto's natural weight - unlike Pacquiao. Finally, I like both guys and even though I think your assertion about Floyd is really off the mark I am prepared to hear you back it up. Over to you.


-stormcentre :

manny pacquaio and other great fighters have been to "war" before they became what they are/were...floyd had been to ballroom dancing...
Welcome Pikon, and excuse me? Or, as the holy father said to the virgin Mary; "come again". Sure, I have no issue with anyone bolstering their view of either Pacquaio or Mayweather's superiority as both guys have their strong and not so strong points - but how has Floyd not gone to war with other great fighters? Check his career in the lighter (than welterweight) weights; there is some of the most brilliant, fluid, and dynamic dominations, beat-downs and contests there - with mad skills on display that leave Pacquaio for dead - even if Pacquaio has trodden the least managed path - which I have no problem with you making a case for. After you have looked at Floyd's fights in the lighter (than welterweight) weights, then take the time out to have a look at who he has fought over the last 5 years at welterweight and/or above. Sure some have been curious and timely selections . . but Floyd has still fought some very tough fights and won. For example, just prior to going to jail and with that on his mind he fought Cotto at Cotto's natural weight - unlike Pacquiao. Finally, I like both guys and even though I think your assertion about Floyd is really off the mark I am prepared to hear you back it up. Over to you.


-Radam G :

It says a lot about a fighter when he has took a lost against professional fighters in almost 20 years. Boxing is a sport when 1 mistake at the right time can result in you going to sleep, or 1-2 too close to call rounds can cost you a fight, so to go Undefeated and be fighting on a Championship Level is something to be applauded... If Floyd was White and didn't ruffle as many feather with his outside the ring Antics, yet had the same in ring track record he would be a Billionaire....
I doubt it! FYI, there are white fighters who retired undefeated but they didn't make billionaire purses and endorsements. You and I are on different trains. If "Floyd," were "white and didn't ruffle as many feather with his outside the ring antics" and his childest racism, he would be bottomed out. I don't expect for anybody in this Universe to admit to it, but blacks, especially in boxing, get away with tons of inflammatory race-baiting statements. This will be a good story for TSS top scribes to tackled. There is very, very low tolerance for a white pug to go off the rocker in the race-insensitive-attacking ways that "Lil' Floyd has displayed. More FYI, @$$holes amid Mayweather stable tell a billion lies and make up syet on da reg. Lil' Floyd's chief fanboy Ben Thompson is so phony that it is ______ _____. He just keep writing phony syet about anonymous people from Da Manny's camp telling him that da Bobfather is preventing the fight, and they are negotiating the fight behind da Bobfather's back. Yea! Right! Great fairy tales. This type jive has long been a part of boxing. Some more FYI. Money May is playing loose and fast about his HUGH paychecks that he keep showing off to the world. He is simply showing you the whole pay check before he pays taxes -- closing to 30 percent -- and then play off his body guards, his other flunkies, and the tabs for the chicken wings that his human punching-bag Big Nate stole from strip joints and all other types of joint. Money May is a master of perpetrating a fraud. After the taxes and other expenses that he has to pay, he is barely staying a millionaire. Watch Money May in a few moons after he retires. He will be borrowing Holyfield's hot barbecue sauce for Big Nate to put on the chicken wing that they will be cooking, not able to afford the strip joints' tabs anymore. Holla!


-stormcentre :

Don't they call them buffalo wings over there? (I still remember the TGF (is it an abbreviation for the Thank God It's Friday food chain franchise) menu). I mean what's with that? How can a buffalo be a chicken and/or vice versa. Gotta love America, over there they do as they please; regardless of what it means. I mean look at the cobra jet Mustang car! How can a car, that's a horse (Mustang) also be a (Cobra) shelby snake? The Americans don't care and I think that's both cool and humorous. They just say . ."nah, to hell with it - you're a snake and a car and a horse until I say otherwise . . push back on that and it's kerosene and matches for you as you become the latest rolling new year's eve celebration". Same with Indians when Columbus or other pioneers of America arrived years ago and found the indigenous folk and called them "Indians" . . .
Columbus and crew; "Hey you dudes look like Indians".
Folk that were already there first; "Nah we're not Indians - we don't even come from India and I think you're lost fine Sir".
Columbus and crew; "Hmmmn . . nup . . you're Indians alright. This is Asia and you dudes look like Indians or West Indians, so we're calling you Indians - no matter where you came from".
Folk that were already there first; "But this is not Asia, you're lost, and furthermore we didn't come from Asia or anywhere - we where here first - before you - and we're the original owners of this land, and we're happy to peacefully share it so long as you respect it and us".
Columbus and crew; "Nah, ta hell with it, you're Indians". Fast forward to thousands of years later and today - when, despite the fact that, we know better and that that Columbus, in his search for Asia, mistakenly arrived in America thinking he had arrived in the East Indies, and on that premise called the American native folk "Indians" - the poor old native folk are still called "Indians".
Footnote; to anyone taking this jest seriously and/or as if I am taking a swipe at Americans - I am not and we in Australia have an equally eyebrow raising history with our native folk. It's just humour and fun.


-stormcentre :

Don't they call them buffalo wings over there? (I still remember the TGF (is it an abbreviation for the Thank God It's Friday food chain franchise) menu). I mean what's with that? How can a buffalo be a chicken and/or vice versa. Gotta love America, over there they do as they please; regardless of what it means. I mean look at the cobra jet Mustang car! How can a car, that's a horse (Mustang) also be a (Cobra) shelby snake? The Americans don't care and I think that's both cool and humorous. They just say . ."nah, to hell with it - you're a snake and a car and a horse until I say otherwise . . push back on that and it's kerosene and matches for you as you become the latest rolling new year's eve celebration". Same with Indians when Columbus or other pioneers of America arrived years ago and found the indigenous folk and called them "Indians" . . .
Columbus and crew; "Hey you dudes look like Indians".
Folk that were already there first; "Nah we're not Indians - we don't even come from India and I think you're lost fine Sir".
Columbus and crew; "Hmmmn . . nup . . you're Indians alright. This is Asia and you dudes look like Indians or West Indians, so we're calling you Indians - no matter where you came from".
Folk that were already there first; "But this is not Asia, you're lost, and furthermore we didn't come from Asia or anywhere - we where here first - before you - and we're the original owners of this land, and we're happy to peacefully share it so long as you respect it and us".
Columbus and crew; "Nah, ta hell with it, you're Indians". Fast forward to thousands of years later and today - when, despite the fact that, we know better and that that Columbus, in his search for Asia, mistakenly arrived in America thinking he had arrived in the East Indies, and on that premise called the American native folk "Indians" - the poor old native folk are still called "Indians". Footnote; to anyone taking this jest seriously and/or as if I am taking a swipe at Americans - I am not and we in Australia have an equally eyebrow raising history with our native folk. It's just humour and fun.


-stormcentre :

Watch Money May in a few moons after he retires. He will be borrowing Holyfield's hot barbecue sauce for Big Nate to put on the chicken wing that they will be cooking, not able to afford the strip joints' tabs anymore. Holla!
Don't they call them buffalo wings over there? (I still remember the TGF (is it an abbreviation for the Thank God It's Friday food chain franchise) menu). I mean what's with that? How can a buffalo be a chicken and/or vice versa. Gotta love America, over there they do as they please; regardless of what it means. I mean look at the cobra jet Mustang car! How can a car, that's a horse (Mustang) also be a (Cobra) Shelby (super) snake? The Americans don't care and I think that's both cool and humorous. They just say . ."nah, to hell with it - you're a snake and a car and a horse until I say otherwise . . push back on that and it's kerosene and matches for you as you become the latest rolling new year's eve celebration". Same with Indians when Columbus or other pioneers of America arrived years ago and found the indigenous folk and called them "Indians" . . .
Columbus and crew; "Hey you dudes look like Indians".
Folk that were already there first; "No Sir we're not Indians - we don't even come from India and I think you're lost fine Sir".
Columbus and crew; "Hmmmn . . nup . . you're Indians alright. This is Asia and you dudes look like Indians or West Indians, so we're calling you Indians - no matter where you came from".
Folk that were already there first; "But this is not Asia, you're lost, and furthermore we didn't come from Asia or anywhere - we where here first - before you - and we're the original owners of this land, and we're happy to peacefully share it so long as you respect it and us".
Columbus and crew; "Nah, ta hell with it, you're Indians". Fast forward to thousands of years later and today - when, despite the fact that, we know better and that that Columbus, in his search for Asia, mistakenly arrived in America thinking he had arrived in the East Indies, and on that premise called the American native folk "Indians" - the poor old native folk are still called "Indians". :cool:


-stormcentre :

Watch Money May in a few moons after he retires. He will be borrowing Holyfield's hot barbecue sauce for Big Nate to put on the chicken wing that they will be cooking, not able to afford the strip joints' tabs anymore. Holla!
Don't they call them buffalo wings over there? (I still remember the TGF (is it an abbreviation for the Thank God It's Friday food chain franchise) menu). I mean what's with that? How can a buffalo be a chicken and/or vice versa. Gotta love America, over there they do as they please; regardless of what it means. I mean look at the cobra jet Mustang car! How can a car, that's a horse (Mustang) also be a (Cobra) shelby snake? The Americans don't care and I think that's both cool and humorous. They just say . ."nah, to hell with it - you're a snake and a car and a horse until I say otherwise . . push back on that and it's kerosene and matches for you as you become the latest rolling new year's eve celebration". Same with Indians when Columbus or other pioneers of America arrived years ago and found the indigenous folk and called them "Indians" . . . Columbus and crew; "Hey you dudes look like Indians". Folk that were already there first; "No Sir we're not Indians - we don't even come from India and I think you're lost fine Sir". Columbus and crew; "Hmmmn . . nup . . you're Indians alright. This is Asia and you dudes look like Indians or West Indians, so we're calling you Indians - no matter where you came from". Folk that were already there first; "But this is not Asia, you're lost, and furthermore we didn't come from Asia or anywhere - we where here first - before you - and we're the original owners of this land, and we're happy to peacefully share it so long as you respect it and us". Columbus and crew; "Nah, ta hell with it, you're Indians". Fast forward to thousands of years later and today - when, despite the fact that, we know better and that that Columbus, in his search for Asia, mistakenly arrived in America thinking he had arrived in the East Indies, and on that premise called the American native folk "Indians" - the poor old native folk are still called "Indians".
Footnote; to anyone taking this jest seriously and/or as if I am taking a swipe at Americans - I am not and we in Australia have an equally eyebrow raising history with our native folk. It's just humour and fun.


-Radam G :

Don't they call them buffalo wings over there? (I still remember the TGF (is it an abbreviation for the Thank God It's Friday food chain franchise) menu). I mean what's with that? How can a buffalo be a chicken and/or vice versa. Gotta love America, over there they do as they please; regardless of what it means. I mean look at the cobra jet Mustang car! How can a car, that's a horse (Mustang) also be a (Cobra) shelby snake? The Americans don't care and I think that's both cool and humorous. They just say . ."nah, to hell with it - you're a snake and a car and a horse until I say otherwise . . push back on that and it's kerosene and matches for you as you become the latest rolling new year's eve celebration". Same with Indians when Columbus or other pioneers of America arrived years ago and found the indigenous folk and called them "Indians" . . . Columbus and crew; "Hey you dudes look like Indians". Folk that were already there first; "No Sir we're not Indians - we don't even come from India and I think you're lost fine Sir". Columbus and crew; "Hmmmn . . nup . . you're Indians alright. This is Asia and you dudes look like Indians or West Indians, so we're calling you Indians - no matter where you came from". Folk that were already there first; "But this is not Asia, you're lost, and furthermore we didn't come from Asia or anywhere - we where here first - before you - and we're the original owners of this land, and we're happy to peacefully share it so long as you respect it and us". Columbus and crew; "Nah, ta hell with it, you're Indians". Fast forward to thousands of years later and today - when, despite the fact that, we know better and that that Columbus, in his search for Asia, mistakenly arrived in America thinking he had arrived in the East Indies, and on that premise called the American native folk "Indians" - the poor old native folk are still called "Indians".
Footnote; to anyone taking this jest seriously and/or as if I am taking a swipe at Americans - I am not and we in Australia have an equally eyebrow raising history with our native folk. It's just humour and fun.
Hehehe! YUP! On the mainland U.S.A., they are "Buffalo Wings." And the Yanks are creative and demanding with strange naming. Holla!


-Radam G :

Don't they call them buffalo wings over there? (I still remember the TGF (is it an abbreviation for the Thank God It's Friday food chain franchise) menu). I mean what's with that? How can a buffalo be a chicken and/or vice versa. Gotta love America, over there they do as they please; regardless of what it means. I mean look at the cobra jet Mustang car! How can a car, that's a horse (Mustang) also be a (Cobra) shelby snake? The Americans don't care and I think that's both cool and humorous. They just say . ."nah, to hell with it - you're a snake and a car and a horse until I say otherwise . . push back on that and it's kerosene and matches for you as you become the latest rolling new year's eve celebration". Same with Indians when Columbus or other pioneers of America arrived years ago and found the indigenous folk and called them "Indians" . . . Columbus and crew; "Hey you dudes look like Indians". Folk that were already there first; "No Sir we're not Indians - we don't even come from India and I think you're lost fine Sir". Columbus and crew; "Hmmmn . . nup . . you're Indians alright. This is Asia and you dudes look like Indians or West Indians, so we're calling you Indians - no matter where you came from". Folk that were already there first; "But this is not Asia, you're lost, and furthermore we didn't come from Asia or anywhere - we where here first - before you - and we're the original owners of this land, and we're happy to peacefully share it so long as you respect it and us". Columbus and crew; "Nah, ta hell with it, you're Indians". Fast forward to thousands of years later and today - when, despite the fact that, we know better and that that Columbus, in his search for Asia, mistakenly arrived in America thinking he had arrived in the East Indies, and on that premise called the American native folk "Indians" - the poor old native folk are still called "Indians".
Footnote; to anyone taking this jest seriously and/or as if I am taking a swipe at Americans - I am not and we in Australia have an equally eyebrow raising history with our native folk. It's just humour and fun.
Hehehe! YUP! On the mainland U.S.A., they are "Buffalo Wings." And the Yanks are creative and demanding with strange naming. Holla!


-leon30001 :

If Floyd was White...
Do you actually have "no" shame? As in, none? Joe Calzaghe is white. He retired 46-0. Is he a billionaire? No. Next!


-brownsugar :

I literally cracked up when Broner hit the scene several years ago attempting to usurp the Mayweather persona by mere association along with the use of a few superficial gimmicks and catch phrases. The convoluted logic, contrived explanations, the warrants, court cases and domestic abuse allegations are just part of the charm that produced the millions of frustrated fans clamoring for the demise of the cocky young kid who flashed his cash excessively in the face of fans experiencing layoffs, corporate downsizing and the relocation of jobs overseas during the on-again off-again recession. You just cant copy the essence of Mayweather by tossing money at strippers and burning a few hundred dollar bills. The era, experiences and unique circumstances that create an icon of this magnitude probably involves a combination of skill, luck, and divine intervention. Mayweather is a baby-boomer and a generation x'er. The poster boy of the ME generation who puts personal gratification first and political correctness last. I wonder if Bob Arum was being generous when he allowed Floyd to buy his way out of his contract for a mere half million....... or if Floyd had a clause built in? The fighter who grew up with drug addicts for parents and took cold showers in the winter time by candlelight because the electric turned was off.... In the state of Michigan who had lost its soul when the automotive and steel industry was confiscated by the Japenese...... who drops out of school in junior high to make boxing his full time focus..... Honestly you can't make this up. As a young pro he traveled from gym to gym like a young Ku Fu expert looking for someone who could give him a challenge or teach him a new trick. Fighting on obscure cable channels in the beginning of his career in places like Utah with young rappers offering the commentary while Mayweather called out a who's who list of challengers from Kostya Tzsu to Oscar DLH. No one has offered the spectacle of a young mayweather in the ring and surprisingly he has been able to cling to enough of his ability and still remain undefeated for nearly two decades.... The sacred O on Floyd's record has enabled him amass a ton of wealth but the well has finally run dry as the division has run out of noteworthy challengers. During a era that has established no new stars. There are only two possibly three challengers left. Pac, Khan, Cotto, possible Brook....or the money train comes to a screaching halt in 2015. But it was a helluva ride.


-stormcentre :

Good piece. Except for the Tszyu bit - which I will let you off on - as we have been there before. :) But yes, you're right. All of the controversies, incarcerations, legalities, and scandals have actually made the Mayweather phenomenon what it is today. As they say - there's no such thing as bad press. No matter what I say (when I put my analysis hat on, or even when/if I start to dissect the molecules and atoms of stuff we discuss) Mayweather is a brilliant boxer, and to a great extent he holds the sport and the often elusive within it, "longevity of performance" and "True Financial Security" in his hands". The guy is the Michael Jackson of boxing in my mind. Even when you look at him, his face is not permanently marked, and there is no scar tissue over his eyes or anything like that. That's unheard of for; his trade, the level he operates at within it, and who he's fought. Broner was never going to replace Floyd in my opinion - so I agree with you there. And now that thought has probably/finally also rested within Broner's "theatre" of consciousness too. Hence the videos Broner now posts - which really are affirmations of his depression. I believe Arum let Floyd pay his way out of his contract for several reasons, including how Floyd and his family knew the boxing business and as such were not easily fooled or "handled" by Top Rank. But, I also think Arum did it due to the fact that he thought - in Oscar - he already had someone that was the biggest cash cow boxing had seen for a while. Arum, I think, saw Oscar's Mexican/White-American marketability, Oscar's looks, and also his Olympic gold medal, as a far better and far easier to manage investment than Floyd's, Floyd's achievements, his Olympic gold medal, and both Floyd's abrasive attitude and knowledge about how the game really works. And, for a while it worked for Arum, as Oscar was gold in every sense. Whether they chose to publicly accept it or not, employers, directors, CEO's, managers, and the like usually feel comfortable when their down-line (or fighters) can be to some extent exploited, managed, manipulated and/or controlled. Typically they don't want them knowing the true value of; their worth, all the extra promotional revenue streams there are, how the game really works, and how the puppet masters pull the strings from the shadows . . . such that when they're ready to cash out on you . . the pull the chain and - despite how it looks like you just lost your title - you're gone. Mayweather - particularly with his uncles and father's experience - was never going to be easy to hoodwink and control. As you elude to, the guy was a screaming success and major standout even before he got to the Olympics, and he knew it. Just like Michael Jackson, when you're doing one thing that you love from such an early age, you're good at it, and you have your family behind you; greatness comes your way - as it did with Floyd. Coincidentally, Oscar moved up to welterweight (vacated the WBC light welterweight strap in 1998) just as Tszyu came through the ranks after his defeat at the hands of Vince Philips; when Kostya had beat former world champions Calvin Grove (KO 1) and also Rafael Ruelas (KO 9). Since, prior to Grove and Ruelas fight Tszyu also fought Diosbelys Hurtado (for the WBC interim belt) he still had not regained a world title. Against Diosbelys Hurtado (whom was a late sub Cuban for the fight) Tyszu found himself twice on the canvas in the first round; due to low hands and falling in love with - what else -punching. However, Tszyu easily recovered and by round 5 Hurtado was done and knocked out. All up the above 3 fights put Tszyu in line to regain the "BC" light welterweight strap and that happened in 1999 when Tszyu become world champion once again by tolerating foul after foul against (the Abel Sanchez trained and) former world champion Miguel ?ngel Gonz?lez, to stop him in ten rounds. The beating Tszyu handed out to Gonz?lez worried Sanchez and was far more dominant than that Oscar had earlier delivered to Gonz?lez. As such it left those in the know certain as to why Oscar vacated the light welterweight strap at that time. Actually, there is even an old YouTube video out there of Roger Mayweather, where Roger - full of expletives and emotion as he often can be - basically calls Oscar; ""golden boy runner . . dat motherfrucker ran up to 147, stinkin the place out . . to escape the Russian I fought in stralia"". Or very similar words to that effect. As we all know Tszyu went on (after Amhed Santos) to flog the faded Mexican legend Julio C?sar Ch?vez from there. Admittedly Chavez was already passed his prime when Oscar first fought him, but unlike Chavez' encounter with De La Hoya, Julio didn't request a rematch after Tszyu bludgeoned him. Actually, since the Shadow (and most of us) love fantasy match-ups . . aside from Greb V Sugar Ray Robinson a few more good fantasy match-ups to run past the TSS crew may be; 1) Tszyu V Oscar. 2) Tszyu V Pacman. 3) Tszyu V Mayweather. 4) Tszyu V Trinidad. All at each guy's prime. Enough of Tszyu, as we all know he had an amateur record of 259 and 11, avenged nearly all of those losses, was the first guy to unify all light welterweight straps in 30 years, and that his blood runs through my veins. :) I liked what you said about . . . . ""The sacred O on Floyd's record has enabled him amass a ton of wealth but the well has finally run dry as the division has run out of noteworthy challengers. During a era that has established no new stars". There are only two possibly three challengers left. Pac, Khan, Cotto, possible Brook....or the money train comes to a screaching halt in 2015". As, it's - as far as welterweight goes - pretty much true. I assume Brook is there on your list due to cash-worth and his British audience, as I don't quite see him as a marquee fighter just yet; even though he "may" beat Khan. Golovkin - even though he is not a super-huge PPV star just yet - is probably the only big PPV fish and truly exciting fight there is out there for Floyd right now. But that's at light middleweight and I think Floyd knows that, at this (late) stage of his career, and with the few - but significant - stylistic similarities/difficulties there are between how Maidana and 3G fight, and considering how Floyd doesn't really have the power to keep Golovkin off him; there is just no need to take those risks. Particularly whilst Floyd currently fights with guaranteed his earnings. But then, what's probably not all that fortuitous about the situation is that - unlike most fighters that start to wind down their career - Floyd, as he winds down his, can not only honestly say he has cleaned out his (welterweight) division and kept it that way until the end - but he also gets the very top dollar for every show, and calls all the shots. Oscar didn't even get all that. And Arum must - in addition to the fact that Floyd has effectively shown him how wrong he was to not only bank on Oscar over him, but also consider him the better fighter - really hate that. Not in the least as Floyd arguably also has the same - if not more - power - when it comes to the fight everyone wants to see - than Arum. There's no doubt that Floyd is the "A" side. So, imagine how Arum will feel if Floyd fights and beats Pacquaio. In terms of chess that will be equivalent to Floyd taking out 2 of Bob's Queens (no pun intended, as it's a real chess possibility), closing in on a stalemate with Arum trapped in the corner, and then just letting him sit there - as the termites run through his blood like a horrified pre-dawn vampire that's not just come home and found his coffin nailed shut - but also knows that he is directly in line with the inescapable rays of the morning sun and about to publicly fester.


-Radam G :

Parody for the dance that Money May doesn't want:
->http://m.YouTube.com/watch?v=E_HTEL0on-A. Holla!


-brownsugar :

Good piece. Except for the Tszyu bit - which I will let you off on - as we have been there before. :) But yes, you're right. All of the controversies, incarcerations, legalities, and scandals have actually made the Mayweather phenomenon what it is today. As they say - there's no such thing as bad press. No matter what I say (when I put my analysis hat on, or even when/if I start to dissect the molecules and atoms of stuff we discuss) Mayweather is a brilliant boxer, and to a great extent he holds the sport and the often elusive within it, "longevity of performance" and "True Financial Security" in his hands". The guy is the Michael Jackson of boxing in my mind. Even when you look at him, his face is not permanently marked, and there is no scar tissue over his eyes or anything like that. That's unheard of for; his trade, the level he operates at within it, and who he's fought. Broner was never going to replace Floyd in my opinion - so I agree with you there. And now that thought has probably/finally also rested within Broner's "theatre" of consciousness too. Hence the videos Broner now posts - which really are affirmations of his depression. I believe Arum let Floyd pay his way out of his contract for several reasons, including how Floyd and his family knew the boxing business and as such were not easily fooled or "handled" by Top Rank. But, I also think Arum did it due to the fact that he thought - in Oscar - he already had someone that was the biggest cash cow boxing had seen for a while. Arum, I think, saw Oscar's Mexican/White-American marketability, Oscar's looks, and also his Olympic gold medal, as a far better and far easier to manage investment than Floyd's, Floyd's achievements, his Olympic gold medal, and both Floyd's abrasive attitude and knowledge about how the game really works. And, for a while it worked for Arum, as Oscar was gold in every sense. Whether they chose to publicly accept it or not, employers, directors, CEO's, managers, and the like usually feel comfortable when their down-line (or fighters) can be to some extent exploited, managed, manipulated and/or controlled. Typically they don't want them knowing the true value of; their worth, all the extra promotional revenue streams there are, how the game really works, and how the puppet masters pull the strings from the shadows . . . such that when they're ready to cash out on you . . the pull the chain and - despite how it looks like you just lost your title - you're gone. Mayweather - particularly with his uncles and father's experience - was never going to be easy to hoodwink and control. As you elude to, the guy was a screaming success and major standout even before he got to the Olympics, and he knew it. Just like Michael Jackson, when you're doing one thing that you love from such an early age, you're good at it, and you have your family behind you; greatness comes your way - as it did with Floyd. Coincidentally, Oscar moved up to welterweight (vacated the WBC light welterweight strap in 1998) just as Tszyu came through the ranks after his defeat at the hands of Vince Philips; when Kostya had beat former world champions Calvin Grove (KO 1) and also Rafael Ruelas (KO 9). Since, prior to Grove and Ruelas fight Tszyu also fought Diosbelys Hurtado (for the WBC interim belt) he still had not regained a world title. Against Diosbelys Hurtado (whom was a late sub Cuban for the fight) Tyszu found himself twice on the canvas in the first round; due to low hands and falling in love with - what else -punching. However, Tszyu easily recovered and by round 5 Hurtado was done and knocked out. All up the above 3 fights put Tszyu in line to regain the "BC" light welterweight strap and that happened in 1999 when Tszyu become world champion once again by tolerating foul after foul against (the Abel Sanchez trained and) former world champion Miguel ?ngel Gonz?lez, to stop him in ten rounds. The beating Tszyu handed out to Gonz?lez worried Sanchez and was far more dominant than that Oscar had earlier delivered to Gonz?lez. As such it left those in the know certain as to why Oscar vacated the light welterweight strap at that time. Actually, there is even an old YouTube video out there of Roger Mayweather, where Roger - full of expletives and emotion as he often can be - basically calls Oscar; ""golden boy runner . . dat motherfrucker ran up to 147, stinkin the place out . . to escape the Russian I fought in stralia"". Or very similar words to that effect. As we all know Tszyu went on (after Amhed Santos) to flog the faded Mexican legend Julio C?sar Ch?vez from there. Admittedly Chavez was already passed his prime when Oscar first fought him, but unlike Chavez' encounter with De La Hoya, Julio didn't request a rematch after Tszyu bludgeoned him. Actually, since the Shadow (and most of us) love fantasy match-ups . . aside from Greb V Sugar Ray Robinson a few more good fantasy match-ups to run past the TSS crew may be; 1) Tszyu V Oscar. 2) Tszyu V Pacman. 3) Tszyu V Mayweather. 4) Tszyu V Trinidad. All at each guy's prime. Enough of Tszyu, as we all know he had an amateur record of 259 and 11, avenged nearly all of those losses, was the first guy to unify all light welterweight straps in 30 years, and that his blood runs through my veins. :) I liked what you said about . . . . ""The sacred O on Floyd's record has enabled him amass a ton of wealth but the well has finally run dry as the division has run out of noteworthy challengers. During a era that has established no new stars". There are only two possibly three challengers left. Pac, Khan, Cotto, possible Brook....or the money train comes to a screaching halt in 2015". As, it's - as far as welterweight goes - pretty much true. I assume Brook is there on your list due to cash-worth and his British audience, as I don't quite see him as a marquee fighter just yet; even though he "may" beat Khan. Golovkin - even though he is not a super-huge PPV star just yet - is probably the only big PPV fish and truly exciting fight there is out there for Floyd right now. But that's at light middleweight and I think Floyd knows that, at this (late) stage of his career, and with the few - but significant - stylistic similarities/difficulties there are between how Maidana and 3G fight, and considering how Floyd doesn't really have the power to keep Golovkin off him; there is just no need to take those risks. Particularly whilst Floyd currently fights with guaranteed his earnings. But then, what's probably not all that fortuitous about the situation is that - unlike most fighters that start to wind down their career - Floyd, as he winds down his, can not only honestly say he has cleaned out his (welterweight) division and kept it that way until the end - but he also gets the very top dollar for every show, and calls all the shots. Oscar didn't even get all that. And Arum must - in addition to the fact that Floyd has effectively shown him how wrong he was to not only bank on Oscar over him, but also consider him the better fighter - really hate that. Not in the least as Floyd arguably also has the same - if not more - power - when it comes to the fight everyone wants to see - than Arum. There's no doubt that Floyd is the "A" side. So, imagine how Arum will feel if Floyd fights and beats Pacquaio. In terms of chess that will be equivalent to Floyd taking out 2 of Bob's Queens (no pun intended, as it's a real chess possibility), closing in on a stalemate with Arum trapped in the corner, and then just letting him sit there - as the termites run through his blood like a horrified pre-dawn vampire that's not just come home and found his coffin nailed shut - but also knows that he is directly in line with the inescapable rays of the morning sun and about to publicly fester.
Actually Storm that wasn't a knock on KT. Floyd was a young B side at the time and like all pros Floyd himself generally doesnt give the young pups the time of day. When KT finally wanted the Floyd fight he had already lost to Hatton so that ship had sailed. KT also said he blames poor management and injuries for not being more financially successful. Floyd and KT's careers didn't overlap in a favorable way to be conducive for a fight but I guess you know I'd favor Floyd if they did fight....lol


-brownsugar :

But yes ...I agree with all of the above... So you are related to KT?.... My eyes have been opened....lol


-stormcentre :

Actually Storm that wasn't a knock on KT. Floyd was a young B side at the time and like all pros Floyd himself generally doesnt give the young pups the time of day. When KT finally wanted the Floyd fight he had already lost to Hatton so that ship had sailed. KT also said he blames poor management and injuries for not being more financially successful. Floyd and KT's careers didn't overlap in a favorable way to be conducive for a fight but I guess you know I'd favor Floyd if they did fight....lol
Yep . . . . all cool man. Floyd has the moves and can hook off the jab, roll, block, slip, think, and slide, real real well - nothing but mad love for his skills - but (if the fight ever happened before Kostya's shoulder surgery) Floyd would need to stay (completely) away from the laser guided rocket right hand for the entire 12. Still, appreciate and can understand your views on Floyd. No matter what anyone says he will rightfully go down as one of the all time greats of his era.


-Scar :

As a fan of both Mayweather and Pacquiao since 2004, Mayweather never really cared about making history. He took the tough fights he needed to take early in his career to establish a name like all other big names did, but once he hit the top it was 100% money. In a world like this, I really can't blame him. It's all about making the most money and securing the best future for his family. Anyone else in his shoes will do the same. Sadly though, this comes at a cost and the cost is general/public appreciation and support. His 0 is being milked to the max because that's where 80% of viewers are immediately attracted to once they see a fight poster.


-deepwater2 :

As a fan of both Mayweather and Pacquiao since 2004, Mayweather never really cared about making history. He took the tough fights he needed to take early in his career to establish a name like all other big names did, but once he hit the top it was 100% money. In a world like this, I really can't blame him. It's all about making the most money and securing the best future for his family. Anyone else in his shoes will do the same. Sadly though, this comes at a cost and the cost is general/public appreciation and support. His 0 is being milked to the max because that's where 80% of viewers are immediately attracted to once they see a fight poster.
He took on the tough guys because he had to. I used to be a big fan of pretty boy Floyd. I watched him before the Olympics and liked his style. It all started to change for me when he took on Zab Judah even though Zab got out worked and lost to Baldomir. We hung out back stage and rubbed shoulders with the men on the inside. I learned that night that at times boxing was less of a sport and more of a racket . Thats is why when a boxer comes on the scene to take on the so called best it is refreshing. PAC cleaned out divisions.GGG is on the same path. Canelo is at least demanding the best fights. Cotto went to 160 and is recharged. Kovalev will fight any man out there. It's nice to make millions ,Floyd has 100's of millions and should be set for the rest of his life as well as his kids. When is enough money enough? Why not take on the biggest challenge for the most money? It does not make any sense to most fans. The self proclaimed TBE should prove it.


-Scar :

He took on the tough guys because he had to. I used to be a big fan of pretty boy Floyd. I watched him before the Olympics and liked his style. It all started to change for me when he took on Zab Judah even though Zab got out worked and lost to Baldomir. We hung out back stage and rubbed shoulders with the men on the inside. I learned that night that at times boxing was less of a sport and more of a racket . Thats is why when a boxer comes on the scene to take on the so called best it is refreshing. PAC cleaned out divisions.GGG is on the same path. Canelo is at least demanding the best fights. Cotto went to 160 and is recharged. Kovalev will fight any man out there. It's nice to make millions ,Floyd has 100's of millions and should be set for the rest of his life as well as his kids. When is enough money enough? Why not take on the biggest challenge for the most money? It does not make any sense to most fans. The self proclaimed TBE should prove it.
Of course he had to take on the tough guys, you have to go through these guys to establish a name in the sport. The Judah fight was already signed and dated before both Judah fought Baldomir and Mayweather fought Mitchell. Judah losing ruined things on paper and Mayweather tried to replace him with Baldomir but failed because Baldomir priced his self out. Baldomir pricing himself out was understandable because his team also wanted to make him some money and they did with the Gatti fight and eventually took the Mayweather offer before it was too late. Cotto is definitely a rare case but he also lost that 0, so he doesn't really have anything to overprotect to maximize profit. However, when he's in the driver's seat he takes advantage of it(like he did with the catchweight in the Martinez fight) because he earned it. Kovalev will have to continue fighting any man out there till he establishes a name, then he will also take the business route. I can't really blame these fighters for doing that, they risk their very lives every time they go in that ring and they don't do it part time either. I do agree that Mayweather is overdoing it and will continue to do so, I guess that's his choice and it would take a truly deluded fan to deny this. He's the one that's going in that ring and trust me, it's not easy to do what he does otherwise we'll have 50 fighters like him and Pacquiao per generation. Both Mayweather and Arum deserve blame for the Mayweather/Pacquiao fight not happening. Arum milked Pacquiao and kept things in the stable like every promoter does, Mayweather did the same with himself. However, when it's all done with, it will be Mayweather who justifiably takes all the blame for his endless list of comical demands whenever Pacquiao attempted to negotiate. One laughable demand I will never forget is the "Take $40 million while I take 100% of the PPV earnings and everything else".