Can We Get the S.O.G. in the R.I.N.G.?

It’s easy to forget that when Showtime’s Super 6 tournament started at the end of 2009, Andre Ward was not considered a favorite. In fact, many had him after Carl Froch, Mikkel Kessler, and Arthur Abraham, but that’s why they decide it in the ring, right? It didn’t take long after the bell sounded to find out that the last American Gold Medalist in boxing (all the way back to Athens, 2004) was deeply underrated.

It’s not just that he defeated Kessler, then Abraham, and finally, Froch, it was the relative ease with which he appeared to do so. Ward, known to himself and in some circles as “the Son Of God,” methodically forced both his will and skill on all three champions, leaving them if not decimated, clearly dispirited. Not only did Ward handle all three fighters, taking unanimous decisions in each bout, but against Kessler and Abraham, he was hardly giving away any rounds. Even the Froch fight, which found two score cards at 115-113, seemed nowhere near that close. The third judge scored the fight 118-110 for Ward and by far, that seemed the most reasonable card. One need only consider the rather macho Froch’s avoidance of Ward since then to understand even the Cobra didn’t think it was that close. Carl Froch bangs no drum for a rematch against the S.O.G.

What was even more interesting about Ward’s five wins in the Super 6 (he also dispatched Sakio Bika and Allan Green), was the way he did it. If you want to brawl, Ward can to do that. If you want to box, Ward can do that. If you want to get dirty, the S.O.G. can be an S.O.B. While Ward may not have had an electrifying knockout in the tournament, his skill level, flexibility, and dogged toughness quickly established him as the class of the Super Middleweight division.

Perhaps Ward’s greatest triumph came nine months after the Super 6, against Chad Dawson. Dawson was 31-1, coming off a solid majority decision (two cards had Dawson up 117-111, the third somewhat mystifyingly came in at 114-114) against the great Bernard Hopkins and coming down from light heavyweight to challenge Ward. Dawson, a slick and often frustrating technically skilled boxer, would seem to have been a tough challenge for Ward. The opposite turned out to be true. Ward bashed Dawson all around the ring that night, sending the bigger man to a knee three times before Dawson effectively told the referee, his corner, and everyone watching at home that he had had enough in the tenth.

In just under three years, the 28 year-old Ward had cleaned out the Super Middleweight division and seemed to have the boxing world all but at his feet. Since then? Almost nothing. The Dawson fight took place on September 8 of 2012. Ward has fought only once since then against the B+ level Edwin Rodriguez, who he predictably outclassed in November of last year.

Part of the inactivity between the Dawson and Rodriguez fights can be blamed on a shoulder injury suffered in training. However, the root of Ward’s pugilistic slumber can be directly traced to his feud with his promoter, the late Dan Goossen. Ward’s beef with Goossen (the only promoter Ward has ever known) stems from his belief that Goossen was not allowing Ward and his team enough input into the promotion and match making of his future fights. Which in boxing terms, seems to be among the milder disputes between pugilist and promoter.

It’s hard to say which actor in this play has the better part. Unlike most feuds of this kind, you can see, at least on some level, both sides. As boxing promoters go, Goossen’s reputation was certainly superior to that of Don King and Bob Arum, and Ward is definitely regarded by some as among the classiest and most articulate fighters in the game. Just this August though, the animosity turned even darker when Goossen responded to Ward’s accusation–under the Ali Act–that the promoter was tardy in paying out the fighter’s winnings with a $10 million defamation suit.

It’s hard to say if Goossen’s death on September 29 of this year from liver cancer will expedite Ward’s way back to the ring or not. On the surface, Goossen’s passage would seem to reduce the level of complication involved therein, but this is boxing and as we all know, in the fight game, there is many a lip betwixt a cup and a lip. It does however seem to provide an opportunity to clear the way.

For Ward’s part he released the following statement that could serve as the beginning of a pathway forward.

“I was deeply saddened to learn the news of Dan Goossen’s passing early this morning. My thoughts and prayers have been with Dan and his family since I received news of his illness last week. While Dan and I recently had our professional struggles, he was a great man, father and husband. He will be greatly missed by the boxing community. I will continue to keep the Goossen family in my prayers.”

However, Ward is still signed to Goossen Tutor Promotions, and that knot will still need to be unraveled. Perhaps the Goossen team taking over the full operations will be more amenable to Ward’s concerns and maybe, just maybe, the grief that all concerned must be feeling will soften some hearts. A tall order in the world of fisticuffs, but one can hope.

What we do know, is that all of 2014 has gone by and many people’s #2 pound for pound fighter, Andre Ward, has not fought once and has nothing on his schedule. Ward did turn 30 this year and his contract with Goossen Tutor was found valid by the California State Athletic Commission in April. Ward will be 33 when the contract expires. He will then be free to fight whomever he chooses. There will be other contracts and other bouts. There will however be only one prime. Andre Ward’s is slipping away.

WATCH RELATED VIDEOS ON BOXINGCHANNEL.TV

COMMENTS

-Froggy :

The "former" P4P fighter better get his stuff together soon, time is really not on his side !


-brownsugar :

According to an entry on Wards face book page about a week ago, supposedly he will be fighting someone by December... Of course Dan was involved...but I'm sure the plans are still underway. Expect to hear an announcement in the coming weeks. After Ward checked GGG and Froch about their level of commitment to fight him (after making numerous claims of wanting to fight him in the press.... each fighter publically decided to go in a different direction. Bhop said he was Wards friend and couldn't fight him for any amount of money. His case is almost as bad as Rigo's as far as being the most avoided. But there is always somebody willing to fight anyone for a paycheck.


-SouthPawFlo :

It's sad that promotional issues has caused this man to miss this time during his prime, he's clearly one of the most skilled boxers in the game...


-The Shadow :

This guy is being avoided. Just like Brownsugar says -- one of the most intelligent, astute and respected observers in here; odds are made off this guy's sentiments -- this is a case like The Rigo. Other guys are simply using the promotional dispute as an excuse not to fight. The line of ducks is prominent: - GGG don't want that work because he know he would die a slow death, in terms of public standing and the fickle fans would be on the next bandwagon in less than a day. - Carl Froch don't want that work for obvious reasons and has admitted that much. - Sergey Kovalev. - Adonis Stevenson - Jean Pascal - Kelly Pavlik They're all concerned. But guess what, if the public would just be less critical of guys that lose and not be so quick to label them hype jobs, overrated and what have you, then guys wouldn't have to worry about staying unbeaten. The real reason they could convince these top guys to take part in the Super Six was because they were ALL guaranteed at least THREE dates on premium cable TV. Perfect example is Arthur Abraham. He got wiped out twice yet still got a few more paydays. Think that would've happened without the contractual obligation the tournament granted him?! No! Because everyone would've dumped on him. When two guys fight, one has to lose. So let's not make that such a big deal if a guy takes an L. Once Kovalev gets humiliated in November, I really hope people a) give Bernard Hopkins for vanquishing yet another boogeyman and b) Kovalev doesn't get disregarded like Pavlik but instead gets props for being an exciting fighter and superb finisher willing to fight anyone, anywhere. At the end of the day, we should all wait to see how this plays out. We don't have all the facts nor do we have the 20/20 hindsight retrospect grants us. At worst, he has to sit out a few years. Ward can fight till he's 40, anyway. He's not wasting any prime, he's just getting stronger. ALSO, FACT CHECK: Ward has known other promoters than Goossen. He signed with Square Ring at first then his contract was sold. He's equally signed to Antonio Leonard not just Goossen Tutor.


-gibola :

Is Froch avoiding Ward? How badly does Ward want to fight Froch? - depends on your perspective. Froch has fought all round the world and lost two fights in his opponent's countries. Andre Ward is a great fighter who fought a global tournament in his backyard. Carl Froch is unbeaten in England. There's not a cat in hell's chance of Ward being sensible about money and coming to Wembley for a rematch with Froch. How badly does Ward want to fight Froch? Not that badly - he'll fight him in the US if he gets most of the money. Half of the PPV in front of 80,000 in England is still more than 80 per cent of the cut fighting Edwin Rodriguez. Froch wants to fight Ward on something resembling his terms, as does Andre. Nothing wrong with that from either guy but drop all the Froch is ducking him nonsense. Since their first fight Froch has taken and overcome new challenges. His style is far more entertaining. He draws bigger crowds. Ward has done nothing since beating Froch. Ward needs Froch more than Froch needs Ward. Froch is avoiding no-one. He's fighting all-comers and making millions. The question I ask is how badly does Ward want to fight Froch? You can say Andre is the champ and has nothing to prove - fine - but that's a different reason to Froch avoiding him and is nearer the truth as to why the rematch won't happen.


-amayseng :

Ward is so superior to Froch that he could still travel to Wembley and white wash him so bad he would get a 12-0 decision, even there.


-gibola :

Hi Amayseng - Ward certainly won the first fight clearly so perhaps you are right - and if so - it's easy money and a no-brainer for SuperAndre to cross the Atlantic and collect a huge cheque for swatting aside uncompetitive Carl. But travelling to an opponent's backyard and winning 12 rounds against Froch would both be things he's never done before so we'll see.


-stormcentre :

Ward so thoroughly owned Froch when they fought it's hard to imagine that Froch wants it again. Froch, that night, was taught about the limitations of determination, toughness, and durability (qualities he has plenty of); when faced with proven boxing technique, speed, strategic and defensive thinking; all wrapped up with someone that is also tough, unafraid and durable. Froch, Kessler and many others underestimated Ward, and in-turn Ward showed how important and beneficial being in possession of a wide range of boxing skills, and being able to use them, is in boxing.


-The Shadow :

Is Froch avoiding Ward? How badly does Ward want to fight Froch? - depends on your perspective. Froch has fought all round the world and lost two fights in his opponent's countries. Andre Ward is a great fighter who fought a global tournament in his backyard. Carl Froch is unbeaten in England. There's not a cat in hell's chance of Ward being sensible about money and coming to Wembley for a rematch with Froch. How badly does Ward want to fight Froch? Not that badly - he'll fight him in the US if he gets most of the money. Half of the PPV in front of 80,000 in England is still more than 80 per cent of the cut fighting Edwin Rodriguez. Froch wants to fight Ward on something resembling his terms, as does Andre. Nothing wrong with that from either guy but drop all the Froch is ducking him nonsense. Since their first fight Froch has taken and overcome new challenges. His style is far more entertaining. He draws bigger crowds. Ward has done nothing since beating Froch. Ward needs Froch more than Froch needs Ward. Froch is avoiding no-one. He's fighting all-comers and making millions. The question I ask is how badly does Ward want to fight Froch? You can say Andre is the champ and has nothing to prove - fine - but that's a different reason to Froch avoiding him and is nearer the truth as to why the rematch won't happen.
No offense but this is way off. At this point, Ward is desperate to fight anyone who wants it. Since he's been frozen out, he's not even being a primadonna about it anymore. Froch has stated in many interviews that he doesn't want to fight him again because he's a spoiler and difficult to deal with. He's said he prefers someone who will fight him. Behind the scenes, they tried to call Eddie Hearn every time they would mention him in interviews, thinking Ward wouldn't travel because he had said that when his head was real big. Once he softened his stance, they came calling and Hearn said "no." Ward was publicly clamoring the rematch in the UK. He's even agreed to fight Mikkel Kessler in Denmark! Yeah, Ward needs Froch more than Froch needs him. That much is true. But does Froch want him? NO CHANCE IN HELL.


-deepwater2 :

Froch has fought all comers and has a great record. He lost to Ward 115-113 and came to fight. He lost.So what.He traveled and couldn't figure out the adjustments to win. Would he fight Ward again? Sure he would. Would he win? Maybe. Will he be better prepared for Wards tactics? Yes. Would Froch travel to fight Ward? Probably not because he has earned the right not to. I like Ward but while Ward has been on the shelf Carl has been doing his job. At this point in their careers Froch had a better resume then Ward hands down.


-brownsugar :

I never get tired of hearing boxers like Froch complain because they came to fight....and their opponent came to box. Anybody can fight...few can truly boxes.s


-deepwater2 :

I never get tired of hearing boxers like Froch complain because they came to fight....and their opponent came to box. Anybody can fight...few can truly boxes.s
I wish Ward actually boxed or fought Froch a bit more. He held an awful lot. Froch on Ward last year in ESPN: "I would rematch with Andre Ward, but he's been a little bit big for his boots lately," Froch told Sky Sports News. "He wants me to go over to America and he thinks that he's calling all the shots. "He's got to realise I'm WBA champion and IBF champion and if he wants the title, then come and win one from the champion. "I think it's fair [if Ward comes to the UK]. I'm champion. I've got the IBF title and the WBA title, Andre Ward has not got a belt. He's an American and I boxed him in America. "I'm British - now come and fight me in the United Kingdom so it's one apiece, to level up the odds. If he's not prepared to travel to England, then I think that tells you something. I think it's a fair thing to ask for him to come over here." Froch, 35, admitted that Ward's style is difficult to face and not the most entertaining to watch, and stated he would rather box Kessler in a third, deciding bout - something that promoter Eddie Hearn also cited as a realistic possibility. "Andre Ward's a spoiler and a messer," Froch said. "He tricks his way through a fight and gets the win effectively but not very entertaining and it's a horrible fight to be involved in. "With Mikkel Kessler, I know that if I turn up I'm going to get somebody in front of me who is going to try and win and try and give me a fight and that's the sort of fight that I want to be involved in. "Mikkel Kessler is a man's man, Andre Ward is a spoiler and it's as simple as that. I'd like a rematch with Kessler, but one step at a time.


-brownsugar :

Also Ward beat the man at the top of the food chain with an injury and his rivals . Is it any wonder that Froch has publically stated that Ward is too good of a boxer while he prefers a to rumble and brawl as a reason for not fighting Ward again. At least he's more honest than most....much respect for that. And all this noise after Ward checked him about talking up a rematch publically when he didn't really want it privately


-brownsugar :

I wish Ward actually boxed or fought Froch a bit more. He held an awful lot. Froch on Ward last year in ESPN: "I would rematch with Andre Ward, but he's been a little bit big for his boots lately," Froch told Sky Sports News. "He wants me to go over to America and he thinks that he's calling all the shots. "He's got to realise I'm WBA champion and IBF champion and if he wants the title, then come and win one from the champion. "I think it's fair [if Ward comes to the UK]. I'm champion. I've got the IBF title and the WBA title, Andre Ward has not got a belt. He's an American and I boxed him in America. "I'm British - now come and fight me in the United Kingdom so it's one apiece, to level up the odds. If he's not prepared to travel to England, then I think that tells you something. I think it's a fair thing to ask for him to come over here." Froch, 35, admitted that Ward's style is difficult to face and not the most entertaining to watch, and stated he would rather box Kessler in a third, deciding bout - something that promoter Eddie Hearn also cited as a realistic possibility. "Andre Ward's a spoiler and a messer," Froch said. "He tricks his way through a fight and gets the win effectively but not very entertaining and it's a horrible fight to be involved in. "With Mikkel Kessler, I know that if I turn up I'm going to get somebody in front of me who is going to try and win and try and give me a fight and that's the sort of fight that I want to be involved in. "Mikkel Kessler is a man's man, Andre Ward is a spoiler and it's as simple as that. I'd like a rematch with Kessler, but one step at a time.
Exactly


-deepwater2 :

Also Ward beat the man at the top of the food chain with an injury and his rivals . Is it any wonder that Froch has publically stated that Ward is too good of a boxer while he prefers a to rumble and brawl as a reason for not fighting Ward again. At least he's more honest than most....much respect for that. And all this noise after Ward checked him about talking up a rematch publically when he didn't really want it privately
Did Ward say he wants to travel to the UK for the rematch?


-brownsugar :

Its also humorous that once Ward agreed to fight overseas Froch pretty much clammed up.


-brownsugar :

Of course Ward wanted to be compensated but he wasn't being a diva about it... Froch is good but he knows his limits.


-deepwater2 :

Of course Ward wanted to be compensated but he wasn't being a diva about it... Froch is good but he knows his limits.
Well the proof is in the pudding. Ward has never left the USA and has only left Cali 6 times out of his 27 fights,fighting in front of sparse crowds at the Pechenga Casino and the Oracle Arena. While Froch has traveled numerous times out of his home country and has won big on the road. Nothing wrong with Ward being compensated. If they fought in England, where Froch is a proven commodity, he would deserve the lion's share. All in all I like both guys but Carl's activity and record speaks for itself. He would fight Ward but only in England. He earned that. Would Ward actually come to terms and travel to England ? That has question marks all over it.


-gibola :

No offence Shadow, Ward has had everything on his terms for years and no rumours that he's said this or that change my opinion at all. I'll change my opinion when I see Ward in the Wembley ring. Froch has earned the right to stay in the UK, he's earned the rematch, Ward needs to make the fight happen.


-deepwater2 :

No offence Shadow, Ward has had everything on his terms for years and no rumours that he's said this or that change my opinion at all. I'll change my opinion when I see Ward in the Wembley ring. Froch has earned the right to stay in the UK, he's earned the rematch, Ward needs to make the fight happen.
I second that.


-brownsugar :

Well the proof is in the pudding. Ward has never left the USA and has only left Cali 6 times out of his 27 fights,fighting in front of sparse crowds at the Pechenga Casino and the Oracle Arena. While Froch has traveled numerous times out of his home country and has won big on the road. Nothing wrong with Ward being compensated. If they fought in England, where Froch is a proven commodity, he would deserve the lion's share. All in all I like both guys but Carl's activity and record speaks for itself. He would fight Ward but only in England. He earned that. Would Ward actually come to terms and travel to England ? That has question marks all over it.
There was quite a bit of back and forth ... Then the Chavez fight presented itself and Froch went after the golden calf while Ward wrestled with his promoter(s). Things got blurry and Froch said Ward couldnt draw flies. Both good fighters at the top of the food chain but I personally don't think a second fight will change the outcome. Froch has options... Ward can't seem to get a fight even while remaining in shape on his own for the past year. Dan wasnt getting him fights... Which Ward indicated he would do until the legal isse was resolved .....and no one was stepping up. Not calling Froch a ducker....necessarily... But that fight is not gonna happen.


-brownsugar :

I second that.
I agree seeing that Froch fills the arena by himself. But I don't think the fight is even being discussed....neither is it in demand.


-deepwater2 :

There was quite a bit of back and forth ... Then the Chavez fight presented itself and Froch went after the golden calf while Ward wrestled with his promoter(s). Things got blurry and Froch said Ward couldnt draw flies. Both good fighters at the top of the food chain but I personally don't think a second fight will change the outcome. Froch has options... Ward can't seem to get a fight even while remaining in shape on his own for the past year. Dan wasnt getting him fights... Which Ward indicated he would do until the legal isse was resolved .....and no one was stepping up. Not calling Froch a ducker....necessarily... But that fight is not gonna happen.
I would say if the fight does not happen it is because Ward can't come to the terms and travel to England. Froch has never ducked anyone. Froch is fine with or without Ward. The fight can happen but it is on Ward's shoulders if it does or not. Ward should come to terms, fight Froch at Wembley and add to his legacy. It would be great for boxing and both boxers would make a ton of money no matter the purse split which should favor Froch 60-40 or 55-45.


-The Shadow :

Did Ward say he wants to travel to the UK for the rematch?
Yes, he did! Several times on several occasions.


-The Shadow :

I would say if the fight does not happen it is because Ward can't come to the terms and travel to England. Froch has never ducked anyone. Froch is fine with or without Ward. The fight can happen but it is on Ward's shoulders if it does or not. Ward should come to terms, fight Froch at Wembley and add to his legacy. It would be great for boxing and both boxers would make a ton of money no matter the purse split which should favor Froch 60-40 or 55-45.
Yes, he has. He's ducked Ward and admitted to doing so.


-The Shadow :

Also Ward beat the man at the top of the food chain with an injury and his rivals . Is it any wonder that Froch has publically stated that Ward is too good of a boxer while he prefers a to rumble and brawl as a reason for not fighting Ward again. At least he's more honest than most....much respect for that. And all this noise after Ward checked him about talking up a rematch publically when he didn't really want it privately
As usual, you cut through the clutter and set things straight. People may have their favorites, and that's fine, but the facts are what they are.


-The Shadow :

No offence Shadow, Ward has had everything on his terms for years and no rumours that he's said this or that change my opinion at all. I'll change my opinion when I see Ward in the Wembley ring. Froch has earned the right to stay in the UK, he's earned the rematch, Ward needs to make the fight happen.
Ward needs to make the fight happen? Here's the thing: it's not easy to make a fight happen with a guy that doesn't want to fight you. Ward is desperate at this point. He went from refusing to call guys out to publicly begging for Froch and GGG. These guys don't want to fight. They're lying to the public, which irritated Ward. They talk smack then once Ward's people get Eddie Hearn on the phone, they have no interest. Froch doesn't want it. End of story. And I don't blame him.


-brownsugar :

Ward actually agreed Deep... Froch basically pulled out and started looking at Chavez. Its a matter of public record.


-brownsugar :

Ward needs to make the fight happen? Here's the thing: it's not easy to make a fight happen with a guy that doesn't want to fight you. Ward is desperate at this point. He went from refusing to call guys out to publicly begging for Froch and GGG. These guys don't want to fight. They're lying to the public, which irritated Ward. They talk smack then once Ward's people get Eddie Hearn on the phone, they have no interest. Froch doesn't want it. End of story. And I don't blame him.
Right ....the man has said on video that he can't beat him...he doesn't want to fight him again and he's moving on...there's no shame in that. Froch is secure enough in his self confidence to talk openly about his limitations... You have to respect it.


-deepwater2 :

Yes, he did! Several times on several occasions.
I thought Ward had concerns about a fair decision in England? Ward said: "I'm not concerned about fighting in front of his fans, but it is about not getting a fair shake. I've realistic concerns. "Like I said, it's my legacy at stake if he didn't beat me, but if something happens like in the Groves fight then that is tough to live down. It's a lot of moving pieces." Ward admitted there has been exploratory discussions over a rematch with Froch since he beat Edwin Rodriguez on points in a non-title super-middleweight fight earlier this month. "I know that my promoter [Dan Goossen] has contacted his promoter to see what interest there is," added Ward. "The initial conversation took place after Froch's rematch with Mikkel Kessler [in May], but I was still injured and we couldn't move forward then the way we wanted to.


-deepwater2 :

Ward actually agreed Deep... Froch basically pulled out and started looking at Chavez. Its a matter of public record.
Words are words but did Ward's team make a proposal, negotiate the fight or send a contract? Any proof out there? Talks are talks and is the first step . Where are the public records on this?


-deepwater2 :

Yes, he has. He's ducked Ward and admitted to doing so.
Carl Froch said , I am ducking Andre Ward? That s a good one.I would like to hear that one. ha ha. Froch traveled to the USA and fought Ward already ,how could he duck him? Froch lost an ugly fight on the road.He wasn't knocked out or shut out


-The Shadow :

Carl Froch said , I am ducking Andre Ward? That s a good one.I would like to hear that one. ha ha. Froch traveled to the USA and fought Ward already ,how could he duck him? Froch lost an ugly fight on the road.He wasn't knocked out or shut out
OK, avoided the rematch then. Yeah, he's admitted to it. He's flat out said he doesn't want it and his promoter said the same. The other quotes pretty much confirm it. And there's no point in paying a lawyer to draft up a contract and fax it when the guy wants no part of it. That's like an expensive form of spam. LOL. I'm not blaming Froch, of course he should go for Chavez. Winnable fight, much bigger seller, PPV. Ward's the total opposite: Less money, guaranteed loss, premium cable. The only suspense in that fight is how Froch would lose. Would he get stopped, dropped, cut or shut (up/out)? That's the only element of intrigue, really.


-deepwater2 :

OK, avoided the rematch then. Yeah, he's admitted to it. He's flat out said he doesn't want it and his promoter said the same. The other quotes pretty much confirm it. And there's no point in paying a lawyer to draft up a contract and fax it when the guy wants no part of it. That's like an expensive form of spam. LOL. I'm not blaming Froch, of course he should go for Chavez. Winnable fight, much bigger seller, PPV. Ward's the total opposite: Less money, guaranteed loss, premium cable. The only suspense in that fight is how Froch would lose. Would he get stopped, dropped, cut or shut (up/out)? That's the only element of intrigue, really.
Froch isn't avoiding the fight,but he wont do it on Wards terms. Froch has been busy filling arenas while Ward has been on the shelf. That means something. He wants the lions share in England because he deserves it. I'm sure he wants close to parity if he did it in Vegas also. Froch lost an ugly fight against Ward but it wasn't a shut out. it was 115-113 twice on the cards. That's a two round advantage. Listen I like Ward a lot but Froch is the more popular fighter and deserves his due. Can Carl be dropped? Sure, but he gets up and wins. That is impressive. If Ward knocks out Froch he will have done something no one else has ever done. Chances of that happening are slim at best. Can Ward stop Froch on cuts? Maybe. Look at the Kessler fight. Here is Kessler talking about it: ?Ward just doesn?t want to fight. Sometimes you should make rules against clinching. When I fought him in 2009 he clinched me 88 times. When we watched it on tape we actually counted. I tried to push him away but he?s clever at what he does. He?s a world champion of that. But I think he?s actually scared. He throws fast punches, light punches, and then holds you. It?s so boring. That?s why he has no fans. He?s not a big name and he likes to stay at home. ?Showtime had to do everything to help him because there were no other Americans who could win the Super Six [the super-middleweight series which Ward won after defeating Froch in the final in December 2011]. The ref was not on my side. When I got the cut they took me to the doc and he said: ?We?re going to stop the fight.? The cut was clear of my eyes but they still stopped it. I had just started to attack him and I got him in the corner but they got scared and called in the doctor.?


-Carmine Cas :

Ward is the last American Male* Gold Medalist. Clarissa Shields won Gold in 2012. Any who, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say what I've been saying for the last couple of years. Ward is/was #1 p4p, his level of competition is greater than that of Mayweather's. However that fact that he's been on the shelf has hurt his argument, and when it comes to self management and promotion Floyd leaves him in the dust. Regardless, he's a beast and a hell of a boxer, we should appreciate him when he actually does fight lol.


-The Shadow :

Froch isn't avoiding the fight,but he wont do it on Wards terms. Froch has been busy filling arenas while Ward has been on the shelf. That means something. He wants the lions share in England because he deserves it. I'm sure he wants close to parity if he did it in Vegas also. Froch lost an ugly fight against Ward but it wasn't a shut out. it was 115-113 twice on the cards. That's a two round advantage. Listen I like Ward a lot but Froch is the more popular fighter and deserves his due. Can Carl be dropped? Sure, but he gets up and wins. That is impressive. If Ward knocks out Froch he will have done something no one else has ever done. Chances of that happening are slim at best. Can Ward stop Froch on cuts? Maybe. Look at the Kessler fight. Here is Kessler talking about it: “Ward just doesn’t want to fight. Sometimes you should make rules against clinching. When I fought him in 2009 he clinched me 88 times. When we watched it on tape we actually counted. I tried to push him away but he’s clever at what he does. He’s a world champion of that. But I think he’s actually scared. He throws fast punches, light punches, and then holds you. It’s so boring. That’s why he has no fans. He’s not a big name and he likes to stay at home. “Showtime had to do everything to help him because there were no other Americans who could win the Super Six [the super-middleweight series which Ward won after defeating Froch in the final in December 2011]. The ref was not on my side. When I got the cut they took me to the doc and he said: ‘We’re going to stop the fight.’ The cut was clear of my eyes but they still stopped it. I had just started to attack him and I got him in the corner but they got scared and called in the doctor.”
I love Mikkel Kessler.


-The Shadow :

Ward is the last American Male* Gold Medalist. Clarissa Shields won Gold in 2012. Any who, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say what I've been saying for the last couple of years. Ward is/was #1 p4p, his level of competition is greater than that of Mayweather's. However that fact that he's been on the shelf has hurt his argument, and when it comes to self management and promotion Floyd leaves him in the dust. Regardless, he's a beast and a hell of a boxer, we should appreciate him when he actually does fight lol.
I love you. You know I love you. But you're trippin'. And you know it. Ain't no way in hell he or anyone active today -- with the possible exceptions of Manny Pacquiao or Bernard Hopkins -- has half the resume Floyd Mayweather does. Stop it. And even then, Floyd has whooped them all. I see no blemish on that boy's record, in terms of opponents chosen or opponents smashed. None, zero. I see a zero, though! Ward is great but let's take it easy here. Everyone "self manages." That's what managers are for. Actually, Ward is emulating Floyd by being active in his business. But to bust another myth, Floyd doesn't even self manage! His guys come to him with names, he watches them fight and then goes "OK. Put him in the ring." Actually, the only real self-managed fighter is Bernard Hopkins. What many don't know is that Hopkins actually won Manager of the Year! Dude is so great people think he's this master wizard. Nah. He's just a masterful fighter. Back to Ward. He's probably at Floyd's 2003 level of notoriety. He's got about 13 more years to go as world champion. Floyd is almost 30-0 in championship fights. RIDICULOUS! As I type this, I realize how insane that guy is. THAT SAID, you're absolutely right! We should appreciate him. Ward is not my favorite, I don't think he's that exciting to watch but I'm MAJOR appreciator of craft, skill and in-ring IQ -- and few can match that of Andre Ward. I also like Ward's temperament in the ring. He's not a guy you want to f*ck with. It's funny, the most skillful guys around today are also the most vicious. Mayweather has the mentality of a dragon. Hopkins is like a mugger. Rigo, with his soulless expression in his eyes, has that Grim Reaper vibe to him. He just wants your soul. And you can't fight him back, much less beat him. Just like death. Then Ward, who has the in-ring temperament -- as I've said before -- of a Richard Kuklinski. A stone cold homicidal hitman.


-flackoguapo :

Great posts gentlemen


-brownsugar :

Test1


-brownsugar :

I love you. You know I love you. But you're trippin'. And you know it. Ain't no way in hell he or anyone active today -- with the possible exceptions of Manny Pacquiao or Bernard Hopkins -- has half the resume Floyd Mayweather does. Stop it. And even then, Floyd has whooped them all. I see no blemish on that boy's record, in terms of opponents chosen or opponents smashed. None, zero. I see a zero, though! Ward is great but let's take it easy here. Everyone "self manages." That's what managers are for. Actually, Ward is emulating Floyd by being active in his business. But to bust another myth, Floyd doesn't even self manage! His guys come to him with names, he watches them fight and then goes "OK. Put him in the ring." Actually, the only real self-managed fighter is Bernard Hopkins. What many don't know is that Hopkins actually won Manager of the Year! Dude is so great people think he's this master wizard. Nah. He's just a masterful fighter. Back to Ward. He's probably at Floyd's 2003 level of notoriety. He's got about 13 more years to go as world champion. Floyd is almost 30-0 in championship fights. RIDICULOUS! As I type this, I realize how insane that guy is. THAT SAID, you're absolutely right! We should appreciate him. Ward is not my favorite, I don't think he's that exciting to watch but I'm MAJOR appreciator of craft, skill and in-ring IQ -- and few can match that of Andre Ward. I also like Ward's temperament in the ring. He's not a guy you want to f*ck with. It's funny, the most skillful guys around today are also the most vicious. Mayweather has the mentality of a dragon. Hopkins is like a mugger. Rigo, with his soulless expression in his eyes, has that Grim Reaper vibe to him. He just wants your soul. And you can't fight him back, much less beat him. Just like death. Then Ward, who has the in-ring temperament -- as I've said before -- of a Richard Kuklinski. A stone cold homicidal hitman.
Nicely said Shadow... Did you see / hear the response from Mayweather regarding Canelo's bid to take back the Mexican Holidays.... Pretty bold but in the end he's gotta have a worthy opponent.


-stormcentre :

When you have a style like Froch does you get to know how, when, and where it's effective. Froch is by no means a slick boxer, his punches and punching style is almost laughable, and if Froch had not somehow found a way to be effective with it; it would be laughable. Particularly in the amateurs: I have seen many guys throw (arm) punches (the way Froch often does) without moving their hips and legs, and even if they do incorporate some form of defensive hand movement to close the move/shot out (as Froch does not); they often are - as unreasonable as it may be - laughed at. Aside from the other great qualities I have mentioned that Froch has; it is his adaptation of such an unusual style combined with how experienced he has become at expecting most traditional boxer's responses to it, that has given Froch an edge. There is no doubt the guy is tough, fit, durable and up for it. But I believe he knows Ward has more. Sure Ward uses his head, clinches, and has a few tricks. Like Froch doesn't? Like he doesn't move his opponents where he wants them with those arms and missing goofy shots. Froch had trouble with Ward's speed and he couldn't time or read him very well. When that happens (so obviously) to a fighter they almost always know things won't be different in the rematch. Add to it all, whatever the amount of shots and/or rounds that were given to Froch by Ward adjusting to Froch's curious style in their first fight, probably won't happen on the same scale again; as Ward knows what Froch does. Froch knows this, and for these reasons a fight with Ward in the USA doesn't make too much sense, particularly when there are other guys for Froch to beat on. Also, if I were Ward and in his position right now, I would be hesitant travelling to England to fight Froch. Ward needs to win convincingly in his next fight, and he will have some rust. That rust could just take the edge of his - above-mentioned - timing and speed. Froch, for the most part, seems well match-practiced, ready and fit. One more thing . . . remember boys, as Hopkins (hilariously) says; "it's not a foul if the referee doesn't call (see?) it". Ward beat Kessler, and Kessler (or Froch) didn't wan't to - straight after - have a rematch and educate the referee over what he believed were fouls. Floyd fought Chino, believed Chino was fouling him (and Floyd was right), yet Floyd still rematched him, educated the referee over what he believed were fouls, and fairly won the fight. If I were Ward, right now, and I still had it and was confident; I would have a few tune up fights. Blow some names away. Then make a move for some of the big dogs. Then consider guys like Froch in the UK provided the contract stipulated neutral judges and referee. I strongly doubt that - should that happen - Froch would be available then, though.


-amayseng :

I love Mikkel Kessler.
Of course you do, we know this....haha


-Carmine Cas :

I love you. You know I love you. But you're trippin'. And you know it. Ain't no way in hell he or anyone active today -- with the possible exceptions of Manny Pacquiao or Bernard Hopkins -- has half the resume Floyd Mayweather does. Stop it. And even then, Floyd has whooped them all. I see no blemish on that boy's record, in terms of opponents chosen or opponents smashed. None, zero. I see a zero, though!
Great post, but you say it right there, Manny and Hopkins might have a comparable resume to Floyd. Ward is ranked above Pacquiao and Hopkins, that says something in itself. However the point in my argument is that Ward's level of competition is better than Floyd's in recent years. IMHO


-The Shadow :

Great post, but you say it right there, Manny and Hopkins might have a comparable resume to Floyd. Ward is ranked above Pacquiao and Hopkins, that says something in itself. However the point in my argument is that Ward's level of competition is better than Floyd's in recent years. IMHO
In recent years? Hmm. I don't necessarily agree but I can follow the argument. He's beaten everyone in his weight class, including a champion intruder from the division north in Chad Dawson. He still has ways to go. I can follow your logic. Keep in mind, he never fought Lucian Bute, which Ward refused. Not because he was afraid, of course. There are still others he hasn't fought. I wouldn't be so quick to anoint Ward. He gained P4P #2 by beating Dawson, a guy we in hindsight now know wasn't as advertised and/or done when Ward pounced. What else counts against Ward is his inactivity. He's fought twice since winning the S6 in 2011, easily routing Edwin Rodriguez -- a lower Top 10 contender -- and, of course, an unhealthily drained Dawson. Even if you assume Dawson was fully functioning, Ward has still had only one good win in three years. His best win is arguably Mikkel Kessler or Carl Froch -- two guys who have beaten each other. There's a case to be made that either of those two have just as good a resume as Ward's and arguably greater competition. Either way, he has long ways to go before he can even think of approaching a guy with a 16-year championship reign. And he acknowledges that much himself -- and does so often. That said, considering how dominantly he beats the guys he does, along with the hype of the S6, I can respect where you're coming from. By the way, you need to message me about that interview, bro!