Source: Mayweather-Maidana 2 Projects To 925,000 PPV Buys

By Michael Woods

on Sep 18 2014 6:17 pm

Source: Mayweather-Maidana 2 Projects To 925,000 PPV Buys

We are a numbers obsessed society, I’m afraid. That is not to our credit, because so often, when we are talking numbers, obsessing over numbers, we are not trafficking in the realm of beings.

I tend to give shorter shrift to salaries, and pay-per-view numbers, and such, than some guys, because that’s not why I do this. I do this because I enjoy the art and science and self-instructive practice of studying the wonderful and horrific practices of the human animal. What a zoo we live in…

That said, one can’t ignore numbers, because behind those numbers are stories, and reasons and guides toward the future, as well as hints to help decipher the past.

So it is, I think, with the whisper number I’m hearing for the latest Floyd Mayweather fight, which took place on Saturday.

Showtime produced the event, the fourth installment in a six fight deal signed by them and Mayweather back in 2012. Mayweather-Maidana 2, dubbed Mayhem, drew approximately 925,000 buys, a birdy told me on Thursday late afternoon. They did 900,000 for the first scrap.

Have at it, numbers guys and gals.

Most of us who follow the sport as a methadone addict follows their dose, reflexively, with an oft muted joy, know that the PPV buying trend is down, in boxing and MMA. Wallet fatigue, lack of truly compelling matchups, a coalescence of consumer sentiment, exacerbated by the presence of “the new union,” the internet, which allows like minded folks to band together, and have their collective voices heard at a higher decibel level than previously they’d been afforded? That’s up for debate…

If you have not, do please register for our Forum, where you will find, as your conception of God is my witness, the best message board content within any and all fight games.

NOTE: Replay of this bout and some undercard action is Saturday, at 9 PM, on Showtime regular. The All Access epilogue runs after the fight replay.

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COMMENTS

-brownsugar :

I must say I'm shocked but not truly surprised. What better advertisement is there than when the furious media talking heads attempt to sabatoge a show by publically attacking the leading man?,

-deepwater2 :

Is Espinoza, using the alias John Smith,calling all the writers and telling them this number? Let's see the real numbers when they come out.

-riverside :

I need to see to believe, Showtime has not been to quick to release numbers before. Why Now?

-MCM :

I caught the fight at at my local (Ocean's 8) and they were charging $30 a head. Arrived about 11pm, walked downstairs, and . . . ghost town. I had my choice of stools, and although a thin crowd trickled in, it never amounted to much. Looked like a Wednesday afternoon in there. They would've done better business had they not shown the fight at all. I imagine they'll think twice about showing the next Mayweather fight unless it's vs. Cotto or Pacquiao.

-oubobcat :

What I really want to know is what was the total revenue from these fights? I was out myself at a theater. Last time I was at a theater, it was packed (sold out 30 minutes into the J'Leon Love fight). This was in Cleveland, OH. This time I was in Rochester, NY and there were about 10 people at the theater. No sell out, no standing room. Maybe the PPV did slightly better but did the total revenue generated do any better? And how is this deal working out for Showtime so far? Are they happy with it or having sever second thoughts? My guess is that latter.

-The Shadow :

What I really want to know is what was the total revenue from these fights? I was out myself at a theater. Last time I was at a theater, it was packed (sold out 30 minutes into the J'Leon Love fight). This was in Cleveland, OH. This time I was in Rochester, NY and there were about 10 people at the theater. No sell out, no standing room. Maybe the PPV did slightly better but did the total revenue generated do any better? And how is this deal working out for Showtime so far? Are they happy with it or having sever second thoughts? My guess is that latter.

The way it's structured, overall, they can't lose money on the deal. They're happy, though I've heard they were a little concerned with the negative backlash leading up to the pay-per-view. Even if you isolate Mayweather's purse -- which is fronted by SHO, just like HBO did -- and match it up against their percentage of PPV revenue, say it did 900K vs. 1.2 million, the difference in Showtime/CBS' percentage cut is only $1 million. Also, revenue should be super high due to higher price points. Theaters count as close circuits. They fall under that revenue stream. Close circuit is a relatively insignificant income source from a percentage standpoint. Finally, SHO declined comment due to their policy but the source spoke to Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports, traditionally a trusted source. As any good journalist should, Iole investigated the veracity of the tally by fact-checking the different cable sources who reported anywhere from 10-20% increases over the last fight. The full numbers won't be in for quite a while. The 925,000 buyrate is an impressive figure, considering low projections and lackluster tracking indicators. Due to the landscape of late, industry insiders speculated the high output of PPV telecasts across the board (WWE, boxing and MMA) had led to a saturated market, given the fact that most 2014 PPVs failed to hit projections. Many experts even predicted the #Mayhem buyrate would fail to hit 800,000. In retrospect, however, the total figure is hardly a surprise when you consider the new markets Mayweather reached with the torrent of bad publicity. As it turns out, the lawsuits and domestic violence criticisms led to features on TMZ, ESPN and CNN, which most likely spiked buys also. Instead of causing a mass buyer exodus, the constant stream of negative Mayweather press perhaps simply alerted people who may not have known that the number one pound-for-pound was back in action. While the court of public opinion can be harsh, in boxing -- it would appear -- it does not seem to matter. As long as you keep on #winning.

-Radam G :

Exaggeration is fast in effect. Crooked-@$$, jealous-of-HBO Showtime is cooking the books -- as I said that they would -- with freebies given to military and government bases, posts and housing. Plus all the pirating hookups from cable outlets and, of course, the freebies at pubs and clubs. Holla at the pubs and clubs owners. They will tell you that they have a hookups with Showtime to count every customs and dey driver as individual PPV buyouts. TsOTT and OIs are every darn where. Holla!

-Radam G :

I caught the fight at at my local (Ocean's 8) and they were charging $30 a head. Arrived about 11pm, walked downstairs, and . . . ghost town. I had my choice of stools, and although a thin crowd trickled in, it never amounted to much. Looked like a Wednesday afternoon in there. They would've done better business had they not shown the fight at all. I imagine they'll think twice about showing the next Mayweather fight unless it's vs. Cotto or Pacquiao.

That $30 a head counted as PPV payouts. Don't believe the bullspit and syet that it didn't. Holla!

-Radam G :

Keep an upper stiff lip and LIE! It is American as Apple PIE. Holla!

-Skibbz :

I think we're missing the point here, close to one million people were left out of pocket. Robbed by a poor bill, an affair which didn't live up to the Mayhem tag and as has become the standard series of events regarding Mayweather; an intoxicating and scintillating campaign of hype before the fight and a borefest when the fight begins. I give thanks for BoxNation and praise HBO PPV's for never boring me to sleep.

-thegreyman :

It would be far more informative to know Showtime's profit margin on Maidana episode 2. That would give us more of an indication than straight PPV buys, which are most likely doctored. I want to know how much money Showtime are making after everyone's been given their cut; whether it's as much as they were hoping to make off Floyd's back, and whether they have an issue with the amount they're making. OK they may be doing 950'000 PPV buys, but that's irrelevant until we know what they want/need for their profits.

-thegreyman :

I think we're missing the point here, close to one million people were left out of pocket. Robbed by a poor bill, an affair which didn't live up to the Mayhem tag and as has become the standard series of events regarding Mayweather; an intoxicating and scintillating campaign of hype before the fight and a borefest when the fight begins. I give thanks for BoxNation and praise HBO PPV's for never boring me to sleep.

Did you forget? Pretty Boy's a back robber... [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ND3fmrKlw&t=5m33s">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ND3fmrKlw&t=5m33s[/URL]

-The Shadow :

It would be far more informative to know Showtime's profit margin on Maidana episode 2. That would give us more of an indication than straight PPV buys, which are most likely doctored. I want to know how much money Showtime are making after everyone's been given their cut; whether it's as much as they were hoping to make off Floyd's back, and whether they have an issue with the amount they're making. OK they may be doing 950'000 PPV buys, but that's irrelevant until we know what they want/need for their profits.

They mostly make money off subscriptions. Tons of revenue but Showtime's cut is only like 5-7%.

-SouthPawFlo :

Can someone tell me the last non Mayweather fight that topped 900,000 buys. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Radam G :

Can someone tell me the last non Mayweather fight that topped 900,000 buys. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You are so full of man luv of Money May. Talking about infactuation. You better watch that. Luv like that has been known to make one cross dress and start showing up at Money May's events and writing him letters. His big uglies may have to handle you. Holla!

-amayseng :

You are so full of man luv of Money May. Talking about infactuation. You better watch that. Luv like that has been known to make one cross dress and start showing up at Money May's events and writing him letters. His big uglies may have to handle you. Holla!

hahahahaah

-brownsugar :

To piggy back off what Shadow was saying earlier (and i do believe Shadow is secretly employed by tsAH... LOL...) indicators suggest a 20% increase in DISHTV (used by many hispanics)subscriptions and an increase in DirectTV and ATT subscriptions. There is a smoking gun that can validate the unusually high buy rate. As I said earlier, I was astonished to see professional journalists blatantly accuse Mayweather publically on national television off of prior cases he'd already been tried for and or served sentencing for.......in addition to prematurely pronouncing him guilty in connection with the allegations levelled by Ms Jackson. This extra media attention in addition to the poor choice of comments Floyd used to respond to questions regarding Ray Rice served to pique the interest of casual fans enough to drive up subscription rates and purchases.

-brownsugar :

Sometimes being a big illiterate dummy can pay off in America...... Only in America.

-amayseng :

Sometimes being a big illiterate dummy can pay off in America...... Only in America.

I dont buy it my friend. Lots of people boycotted this ppv because of Floyds poor choice in downplaying the severity of Ray Rice knocking out his woman. They would rather keep their money than give it to Floyd, not even worrying about seeing him pay for his words.

-SouthPawFlo :

I thought this was a post about PPV buys, and I asked a question about PPV Buys, I didn't comment on anything else other than what the post was about.... Who I like as a fighter really has nothi to do with the topic, this isn't a who's your favorite fighter thread is it????

-SouthPawFlo :

Idk if that number is true or not, but if it is I think it has more to do with Chino than Mayweather... After how close the first fight was a lot of people really felt that Chino would be able to do a little more in the 2nd, and the All access showing Robert G. Trying to tweak certain things definitely helped... Maidana is a bonafide star after his Broner Beatdown and his good performance in his first fight, also they did a 5 city media tour for this one and the fans were definitely cheering on Chino, even in the Crowd at the fight it seemed to be more fighters rooting for Chino.... People really wanna see Floyd Lose and obviously they're willing to pay $75 to see it live on PPV.

-Radam G :

That "birdy" must be a small-brained dodo birdy with a short-term memory. Knuckleheads were fibbing that Mayweather-Maidana I did a mil or 1.2mil -- whichever fib you wanted to believe. Now it is 900thou. And this Mayweather-Maidana II now mysteriously did more than 925thou, more than the first dance. And it was not expected to do more than 700thou, because that is probably what it did. Somebody ought to cut da crap. These bigwig inflators think between the ears ev'ybodee and dey momma have a gap. Holla!

-brownsugar :

I dont buy it my friend. Lots of people boycotted this ppv because of Floyds poor choice in downplaying the severity of Ray Rice knocking out his woman. They would rather keep their money than give it to Floyd, not even worrying about seeing him pay for his words.

Things are not always as they seem. I think people were also offended at the way Floyd was tossed under the bus by the media. Its obvious that somebody was watching ... As evident by the increase in subscriptions during fight day. As far as Ray Rice is concerned ... The NFL Players union is trying to appeal Goodel's decision to indefinitely suspend Rice. Because penalising a person twice for the same offence obstructs "due process" Personally I don't care... But its happening. Also there is backlash from Jim Lampleys Boxing Show. Many still remember when Lampley plead guilty in 2007 to domestic violence and served 3 years probation along with 40 hour community service. I don't think the country is a nation of blind sheep following the beat of a single drummer. The police of Ferguson are supporting the cop who shot that teenager in cold blood while he had his hands raised in surrender. 5 million dollars have been raised for the cops defense even though there is clear footage of the kid being gunned down. Who is donating all the money to a cause that spawned riots and left many in shock. I wouldn't think 5 million dollars in support would be possible ....but apparently it is. Just saying .... Things are not so cut and dried. Not as many viewers were as deterred as it was initially predicted. I respect your opinion of course. However there are many dynamics at work in this instance.

-Carmine Cas :

Controversy sells, but there comes a point where too much of it tarnishes the brand and consumers second guess their decision to buy. Men lie, women lie, and numbers can be altered. However depending on the loyalty of the fan, they will still purchase fights. Look at the Ray Rice situation, there are female Raven's fans criticizing the punishment and supporting him. It all depends on how much of a fan are you. But in this case I think there some seasoning added to the PPV numbers. But the media attention helped too.

-brownsugar :

Controversy sells, but there comes a point where too much of it tarnishes the brand and consumers second guess their decision to buy. Men lie, women lie, and numbers can be altered. However depending on the loyalty of the fan, they will still purchase fights. Look at the Ray Rice situation, there are female Raven's fans criticizing the punishment and supporting him. It all depends on how much of a fan are you. But in this case I think there some seasoning added to the PPV numbers. But the media attention helped too.

It's crazy CC, I have to agree ....... Also Espinoza can neither hide or create money out of thin air. It doesn't benefit Showtime to promote a lie when they can just back out of the deal. No company is going to go out of business trying to create an illusion. I'm.positive Showtime has an escape clause if things go South.

-The Commish :

The way it's structured, overall, they can't lose money on the deal. They're happy, though I've heard they were a little concerned with the negative backlash leading up to the pay-per-view. Even if you isolate Mayweather's purse -- which is fronted by SHO, just like HBO did -- and match it up against their percentage of PPV revenue, say it did 900K vs. 1.2 million, the difference in Showtime/CBS' percentage cut is only $1 million. Also, revenue should be super high due to higher price points. Theaters count as close circuits. They fall under that revenue stream. Close circuit is a relatively insignificant income source from a percentage standpoint. Finally, SHO declined comment due to their policy but the source spoke to Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports, traditionally a trusted source. As any good journalist should, Iole investigated the veracity of the tally by fact-checking the different cable sources who reported anywhere from 10-20% increases over the last fight. The full numbers won't be in for quite a while. The 925,000 buyrate is an impressive figure, considering low projections and lackluster tracking indicators. Due to the landscape of late, industry insiders speculated the high output of PPV telecasts across the board (WWE, boxing and MMA) had led to a saturated market, given the fact that most 2014 PPVs failed to hit projections. Many experts even predicted the #Mayhem buyrate would fail to hit 800,000. In retrospect, however, the total figure is hardly a surprise when you consider the new markets Mayweather reached with the torrent of bad publicity. As it turns out, the lawsuits and domestic violence criticisms led to features on TMZ, ESPN and CNN, which most likely spiked buys also. Instead of causing a mass buyer exodus, the constant stream of negative Mayweather press perhaps simply alerted people who may not have known that the number one pound-for-pound was back in action. While the court of public opinion can be harsh, in boxing -- it would appear -- it does not seem to matter. As long as you keep on #winning.

It's funny how that works. "Mayhem" apparently outdrew the first fight, back in May. That is probably because of the amount of negative press which did indeed act like a cold splash of water into the face. It woke people up. In addition, there were those who thought, "The first fight was so competitive and close that this one will be the same way. I'll kick myself if I don't buy it and wake up on Sunday morning to find out Maidana has won. I have to believe that all who bought the first fight were thoroughly entertained. When the rematch was announced, they had no doubts or second thoughts about purchasing it. The were counting on a Gatti-Ward-type rematch, but instead got an Ali-Frazier II type rematch. Let's not wait for the "Thrilla' in Manila." It will be interesting to see who $$$May chooses as his dancing partner next May, and how they promoters go about selling it. On what angle? Judging on "Mayhem," $$$May is still boxing's top attraction. As Father Time erodes his once-magnificent skills oh so slowly, the chances are those PPV numbers will still be there in May and especially next September, when he goes for #49 (provided he wins in May) to tie Rocky Marciano. Can you picture what those PPV numbers will be if he ties The Rock and then goes for #50 in 2016, which, in all probability, he will? My guess is they will be over 1 million. -Randy G.

-Radam G :

The truthfulness of the count is just like doing your American income tax. You can make up all type of syet. Is $howtime being honest? Heck no! Is it giving you a gross count, or a net gross? Is it counting all the freebies and pirated? Yes. $howtime is full of syet. It is probably counting freebies that American Forces Network shoots out to the local population in Asia, especially Hawaii, Alaska, Guam, American Samoa, The Marshall Islands, Yap, Japan, The P-Islands, Korea and Singapore. "Mayhem" probably had 250thou on the U.S. mainland. The Commish, B-Sug, D2, SouthpawFlo and dey kinfolks and bill collectors were about the only cats in this Universe to buy. Hehe! Holla!

-Kid Blast :

I'd rather be water boarded than watch this again. :mad:

-SouthPawFlo :

Espn's Boxinf page Reported that the Live Gate Generated the 5th highest revenue in Nevada Boxing history, and that 4 of the 5 highest grossing fights in Nevada history featured Floyd.... PPV King & Cash King of Boxing, but the question is for how long.....

-Radam G :

Espn's Boxinf page Reported that the Live Gate Generated the 5th highest revenue in Nevada Boxing history, and that 4 of the 5 highest grossing fights in Nevada history featured Floyd.... PPV King & Cash King of Boxing, but the question is for how long.....

ESPN would be spot on. Billionaire William Buffet -- Money May's friend for a minute -- bought up all the leftover tickets to help create this optical illusion of Money May's drawing power. Holla at the fight again, and dig all the empty seats. Or maybe Money May is so good with it now, dat invisible muthapuckas and muthasuckas and dey see-through-fat hos are occupying seats and you cannot see them with your naked eyes or naked @$$es. Give ma BREAK! ALERT: It is a nice tax write on for the Buffet of bucks -- billions of bucks. His moolah gives him more tricks than Harry Houdini, David Copperfield and David Blaine combined. Holla!

-brownsugar :

The truthfulness of the count is just like doing your American income tax. You can make up all type of syet. Is $howtime being honest? Heck no! Is it giving you a gross count, or a net gross? Is it counting all the freebies and pirated? Yes. $howtime is full of syet. It is probably counting freebies that American Forces Network shoots out to the local population in Asia, especially Hawaii, Alaska, Guam, American Samoa, The Marshall Islands, Yap, Japan, The P-Islands, Korea and Singapore. "Mayhem" probably had 250thou on the U.S. mainland. The Commish, B-Sug, D2, SouthpawFlo and dey kinfolks and bill collectors were about the only cats in this Universe to buy. Hehe! Holla!

Ha Ha.... Lol.. I was in LA, at an anti "Floyd Mayweather Convention" with Skip Bayless, Nichol, and Thomas Hauser burning an effigy of Floyd sitting in a Rolled Royce (sic).

-deepwater2 :

ESPN would be spot on. Billionaire William Buffet -- Money May's friend for a minute -- bought up all the leftover tickets to help create this optical illusion of Money May's drawing power. Holla at the fight again, and dig all the empty seats. Or maybe Money May is so good with it now, dat invisible muthapuckas and muthasuckas and dey see-through-fat hos are occupying seats and you cannot see them with your naked eyes or naked @$$es. Give ma BREAK! ALERT: It is a nice tax write on for the Buffet of bucks -- billions of bucks. His moolah gives him more tricks than Harry Houdini, David Copperfield and David Blaine combined. Holla!

Bingo. I saw many empty seats as well. Someone bought those tickets and wrote it off as a business expense

-Radam G :

Bingo. I saw many empty seats as well. Someone bought those tickets and wrote it off as a business expense

I see that they couldn't jive play you with inattentional blindness by making you exclusively focal on the fights and the celebrities at ringside. The crooks that be excuses for all those empty mid-level and nosebleed seats will/would be: "In case of a fire, a roid, a medical situation or terrorist attack, we left seats unoccupied for emergency access." Oh, YUP! RIGHT! Just when Money Mays fights. You lead of the arena empty. But no need for "emergency access" when Day Manny/3m scraps. OMG! The TsOTT and OIs are big time for Lil' Floyd -- no hate. Holla!

-Radam G :

Ha Ha.... Lol.. I was in LA, at an anti "Floyd Mayweather Convention" with Skip Bayless, Nichol, and Thomas Hauser burning an effigy of Floyd sitting in a Rolled Royce (sic).

Wow! I was visiting Mars and hanging out with my little green cousins. We burned da hebejeebeez outta an effigies of Lil' Floyd and Big Floyd raining Benjamins on fat-booty stank hos. Hehehe! Holla!

-SouthPawFlo :

Can somebody with some knowledge about PPV buys tell me the last Non Mayweather bout to Top 900,000 buys....

-Radam G :

Can somebody with some knowledge about PPV buys tell me the last Non Mayweather bout to Top 900,000 buys....

It depends if you want bullsyet and created counting or the truth. Canelo can match Money May any day of the week and eight times on Sunday. He is the one on the mainland. Canelo's BIG-money supporter superbillionaire Carlos Slim has more bread than W. Buffet. There are opticials illusions everywhere. Money May is not the only pug that shoots them out. You are apparently asking about PPV payouts on the U.S mainland. Because Da Manny kicks Money May's arse all the time in Canada and the Caribbeans. And Canelo does it to him back in Latin America, including Arizona, Texas, California, Colorado and Nevada. "FIGHT DA POWER DAT BE! Don't believe the hype." Money May's PPV is joke in your town. And if it were not for create counting he would be a rich joke in every town. Holla!

-SouthPawFlo :

Ok now I have two questions: What was the last Non Mayweather fight to Top 900,000??? What were the numbers for Canelo's two PPV fights this year???? Don't worry I'll wait...

-Radam G :

Ok now I have two questions: What was the last Non Mayweather fight to Top 900,000??? What were the numbers for Canelo's two PPV fights this year???? Don't worry I'll wait...

You got your mind made up. So I have no credibility with you. Just Google it. And or ask TSS's The Shadow or the Commish. No matter what truths that I post, you are going to turn them into burnt toast. You are heavy with it. Of the man luv for my boy Money May, you have the most. I gotta hit da pit and take a sleeping nap. And for all of your man luv for Money May, I clap. Hehe!
->http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=MKLGTDH7io8. Holla!

-SouthPawFlo :

The Reason I'm asking 4 PPV numbers is because, I myself think that 925,000 number for this fight seems a little bloated, but I wanna compare the preflight "hype" of this fight to another fight with "comparable" numbers.. And also, I think that Canelo is a bonafide star but idk him as the A Side of a promotion is ready to compete with a Mayweather fight.

-deepwater2 :

Oh well the so called source( Espinoza aka john smith) might be wrong. ESPN Spanish station is reporting 700,000 which is a dud.

-SouthPawFlo :

I was thinking somewhere between 700-750,000 myself... I guess we gotta wait for the "Offical" numbers to come out

-Radam G :

Oh well the so called source( Espinoza aka john smith) might be wrong. ESPN Spanish station is reporting 700,000 which is a dud.

And that is how it is. An English-speaking liar breaks out with the BIG LIE. And in all other languages, you hear the actuality of the reality. But you are looked upon like you are scum hating "the A-side fighter" of the fanboys and groupies who have gone off on the fly with the first, quick lie. Holla!

-Radam G :

Hehehe! My Tio Mamoy said that the Showtime and company's PPV counting crew are some soaphead bums and then in Spanish he said: "La casa del jabonero es toda un resbaladero" -- The house of a soap maker is a slippery place." In other words, these ____ _____ _____ are slippery with bringing the true. And you might need to wash their mouths out. Holla!

-thegreyman :

At this rate, Radam would soon have us believe only 5 people actually bought the fight

-Radam G :

At this rate, Radam would soon have us believe only 5 people actually bought the fight

I was hoping that I would have you believing three buys. The Commish, B-Sug and SouthpawFlo. Hehehe! Holla!

-SouthPawFlo :

As a fan I can say that I've probably purchased about 30 PPV bouts over the last 6-7 Years and some of my fight parties have been jam packed and some not so much... Oscar vs Floyd Floyd Vs Canelo Manny Vs Margarito Manny vs Clottey (that was a waste) Floyd vs Marquez (Mismatch) Manny vs Hatton (Mismatch) Manny vs Rios (mismatch) Cotto vs Martinez (BeatDown) Are some of the major ones and in the main events there was at least some doubt about who was gonna win, and for the Maidana Scrap a lot of people (especially in Texas) people really felt Maidana had his number or would at least Challenge him.. That's the thing with PPVs you never know how the fights are gonna turn out, but you just pay your money and enjoy as a fan!!!

-Carmine Cas :

ESPN would be spot on. Billionaire William Buffet -- Money May's friend for a minute -- bought up all the leftover tickets to help create this optical illusion of Money May's drawing power. Holla at the fight again, and dig all the empty seats. Or maybe Money May is so good with it now, dat invisible muthapuckas and muthasuckas and dey see-through-fat hos are occupying seats and you cannot see them with your naked eyes or naked @$$es. Give ma BREAK! ALERT: It is a nice tax write on for the Buffet of bucks -- billions of bucks. His moolah gives him more tricks than Harry Houdini, David Copperfield and David Blaine combined. Holla!

What is the deal with that relationship btw? Was it just a front to hype the fight or are they still partnered?

-Radam G :

What is the deal with that relationship btw? Was it just a front to hype the fight or are they still partnered?

Money May wants to be a billionaire. They have partnered up. Buffet is going to help Money May add some zeroes to the Money May's stash. Holla!

-Carmine Cas :

Money May wants to be a billionaire. They have partnered up. Buffet is going to help Money May add some zeroes to the Money May's stash. Holla!

True that, smart move.

-thegreyman :

I wonder what's in it for Buffet though? Maybe he gets a kick out of seeing all those sweating pugs at the Mayweather Gym.

-oubobcat :

I was thinking somewhere between 700-750,000 myself... I guess we gotta wait for the "Offical" numbers to come out

There seem to be a number of different sources reporting different numbers at this time. The fact of the matter is that we will never officially know. My gut from my experience says the revenue and PPV buys will be down from the first time. I was at a theater last May that was packed and sold out before the J'Leon Love fight ended. Standing room only. I went to a different theater this time around and ten people showed up. Just as big mind you as the last theater I was in. My experience tells me the enthusiasm amongst the public was not there for the rematch. In addition, there were other sporting events, namely college football, going on last Saturday night that wern't around last May. I think people held their entertainment dollars back on this one. The only ones that will ever know though for sure are the execs at Showtime/CBS and the Mayweather camp.

-Radam G :

I wonder what's in it for Buffet though? Maybe he gets a kick out of seeing all those sweating pugs at the Mayweather Gym.

It makes him feel young again. The brain plays tricks on an old fart and keep him yearning to see eye candy -- body beauty. Buffet feels the sweat just as much as those pugs do. Holla!

-deepwater2 :

It seems the phony source (Espinoza) inflated the PPV numbers. Word on the "street " is the PPV fell under the first fight. The Showtime boss might not be secure in his job as he was last year.

-amayseng :

It makes him feel young again. The brain plays tricks on an old fart and keep him yearning to see eye candy -- body beauty. Buffet feels the sweat just as much as those pugs do. Holla!

That was some of the strangest interaction I have ever witness on scripted tv. Yes it was scripted, Floyd laying relaxing on the couch staying calm waiting to get ready for the fight and Buffet enters and all he can muster is something about being quite relaxed or not worried. The man clearly never was active in athletics, sure he is ridiculously rich. What was the point of adding him to the "money team" mix? I dont get it or buy it. What is the connection here? One rich guy with the richest guy. And dont give me its about Floyd growing his "empire".

-Radam G :

That was some of the strangest interaction I have ever witness on scripted tv. Yes it was scripted, Floyd laying relaxing on the couch staying calm waiting to get ready for the fight and Buffet enters and all he can muster is something about being quite relaxed or not worried. The man clearly never was active in athletics, sure he is ridiculously rich. What was the point of adding him to the "money team" mix? I dont get it or buy it. What is the connection here? One rich guy with the richest guy. And dont give me its about Floyd growing his "empire".

Hehehehe!! It's was about Lil' Floyd growing his "empire." Haha! Holla!

-deepwater2 :

Hehehehe!! It's was about Lil' Floyd growing his "empire." Haha! Holla!

The real PPV number is 770,000. That's a long way from 925,000. Floyd robbed Showtime with his 32 million guarantee . You know Showtime wants the PAC fight and will work with HBO to make $$$. Who else will make the big for Showtime ?

-brownsugar :

The real PPV number is 770,000. That's a long way from 925,000. Floyd robbed Showtime with his 32 million guarantee . You know Showtime wants the PAC fight and will work with HBO to make $$$. Who else will make the big for Showtime ?

The number sounds realistic and its more than i initially predicted but who is Glaser? and how would he have this info. Boxing promoters are known to play games and bend the truth. Not that its a major concern... Its Showtimes problem if they fell short.

-oubobcat :

770,000 does sound much more in line with what I was expecting. I am just going be my own experience. Full theater in May that was sold out before the first fight ended and handful of people at theater in September. To me, it does not seem logical that the PPV numbers would be as high as was originally stated.

-The Shadow :

The number sounds realistic and its more than i initially predicted but who is Glaser? and how would he have this info. Boxing promoters are known to play games and bend the truth. Not that its a major concern... Its Showtimes problem if they fell short.

Exactly, why do people care other than wanting to see the man fail/fall? I mean, good for him that he's making money. It's not like the entity that pays him is on the brink of bankruptcy. They got money to blow. Besides, they're making out like bandits, I keep repeating it, they keep repeating it, analysts keep repeating it but no one wants to listen. Glaser is a troll, by the way. His ethics are questionable. But he is always good for balance if you need an opposing view in a news feature. But you can take what he says with a grain of salt. If there were two reports out there -- one saying 450,000 buys and 1.2 million buys -- I think people would be inclined to believe the one with the lower number, though common sense should clearly alert you that the 450K would be utter and complete bogus. One thing about pay-per-view, it's almost an esoteric industry. There are only a handful of people in boxing -- outside the distributors and broadcasters -- who truly know how it works. Less than a handful. And that's a fact. So people can say what they want. What I would be concerned about is Bob Arum spreading those lies of having talked to CBS and HBO bosses to get fans' hopes up for the purpose of getting more attention and buys for his event in China. That's the real crime. Because the fans will be left disappointed again. And that's a shame. Everyone in the media knows it's bogus. Everyone around boxing knows how he is. Even his own FRIENDS laugh when he release these truth-omissive statements. You guys really think he wants to help Mayweather?! Mayweather profits the most from Mayweather-Pacquiao, not Arum. The man is one of the most vindictive men in the business and that's a fact. Forget his words, just look at his actions. Just look at the cards he's building and you can clearly see who he's building as future opponents. Pacquiao is nearing the end. He'd rather have Pacquiao lose to Crawford or Jessie Vargas and propel their careers so he has assets moving forward. I think we should worry less about counting strangers' money and more about protesting against false advertisements that tease us worse than Desiree at the TNA bar down the Strip.

-Skibbz :

Exactly, why do people care other than wanting to see the man fail/fall? I mean, good for him that he's making money. It's not like the entity that pays him is on the brink of bankruptcy. They got money to blow. Besides, they're making out like bandits, I keep repeating it, they keep repeating it, analysts keep repeating it but no one wants to listen. Glaser is a troll, by the way. His ethics are questionable. But he is always good for balance if you need an opposing view in a news feature. But you can take what he says with a grain of salt. If there were two reports out there -- one saying 450,000 buys and 1.2 million buys -- I think people would be inclined to believe the one with the lower number, though common sense should clearly alert you that the 450K would be utter and complete bogus. One thing about pay-per-view, it's almost an esoteric industry. There are only a handful of people in boxing -- outside the distributors and broadcasters -- who truly know how it works. Less than a handful. And that's a fact. So people can say what they want. What I would be concerned about is Bob Arum spreading those lies of having talked to CBS and HBO bosses to get fans' hopes up for the purpose of getting more attention and buys for his event in China. That's the real crime. Because the fans will be left disappointed again. And that's a shame. Everyone in the media knows it's bogus. Everyone around boxing knows how he is. Even his own FRIENDS laugh when he release these truth-omissive statements. You guys really think he wants to help Mayweather?! Mayweather profits the most from Mayweather-Pacquiao, not Arum. The man is one of the most vindictive men in the business and that's a fact. Forget his words, just look at his actions. Just look at the cards he's building and you can clearly see who he's building as future opponents. Pacquiao is nearing the end. He'd rather have Pacquiao lose to Crawford or Jessie Vargas and propel their careers so he has assets moving forward. I think we should worry less about counting strangers' money and more about protesting against false advertisements that tease us worse than Desiree at the TNA bar down the Strip.

That's the art of matchmaking my friend. It will always be that way. Why would you give your pie to another man? Silly...

-brownsugar :

Exactly, why do people care other than wanting to see the man fail/fall? I mean, good for him that he's making money. It's not like the entity that pays him is on the brink of bankruptcy. They got money to blow. Besides, they're making out like bandits, I keep repeating it, they keep repeating it, analysts keep repeating it but no one wants to listen. Glaser is a troll, by the way. His ethics are questionable. But he is always good for balance if you need an opposing view in a news feature. But you can take what he says with a grain of salt. If there were two reports out there -- one saying 450,000 buys and 1.2 million buys -- I think people would be inclined to believe the one with the lower number, though common sense should clearly alert you that the 450K would be utter and complete bogus. One thing about pay-per-view, it's almost an esoteric industry. There are only a handful of people in boxing -- outside the distributors and broadcasters -- who truly know how it works. Less than a handful. And that's a fact. So people can say what they want. What I would be concerned about is Bob Arum spreading those lies of having talked to CBS and HBO bosses to get fans' hopes up for the purpose of getting more attention and buys for his event in China. That's the real crime. Because the fans will be left disappointed again. And that's a shame. Everyone in the media knows it's bogus. Everyone around boxing knows how he is. Even his own FRIENDS laugh when he release these truth-omissive statements. You guys really think he wants to help Mayweather?! Mayweather profits the most from Mayweather-Pacquiao, not Arum. The man is one of the most vindictive men in the business and that's a fact. Forget his words, just look at his actions. Just look at the cards he's building and you can clearly see who he's building as future opponents. Pacquiao is nearing the end. He'd rather have Pacquiao lose to Crawford or Jessie Vargas and propel their careers so he has assets moving forward. I think we should worry less about counting strangers' money and more about protesting against false advertisements that tease us worse than Desiree at the TNA bar down the Strip.

Hey Shadow.... I hear tsAH is putting his stable of 120+ fighters to work by having them matched on CBS who is producing a new boxing series in 2015. I guess its the next logical move... Do you know if there is any truth to it?

-deepwater2 :

Exactly, why do people care other than wanting to see the man fail/fall? I mean, good for him that he's making money. It's not like the entity that pays him is on the brink of bankruptcy. They got money to blow. Besides, they're making out like bandits, I keep repeating it, they keep repeating it, analysts keep repeating it but no one wants to listen. Glaser is a troll, by the way. His ethics are questionable. But he is always good for balance if you need an opposing view in a news feature. But you can take what he says with a grain of salt. If there were two reports out there -- one saying 450,000 buys and 1.2 million buys -- I think people would be inclined to believe the one with the lower number, though common sense should clearly alert you that the 450K would be utter and complete bogus. One thing about pay-per-view, it's almost an esoteric industry. There are only a handful of people in boxing -- outside the distributors and broadcasters -- who truly know how it works. Less than a handful. And that's a fact. So people can say what they want. What I would be concerned about is Bob Arum spreading those lies of having talked to CBS and HBO bosses to get fans' hopes up for the purpose of getting more attention and buys for his event in China. That's the real crime. Because the fans will be left disappointed again. And that's a shame. Everyone in the media knows it's bogus. Everyone around boxing knows how he is. Even his own FRIENDS laugh when he release these truth-omissive statements. You guys really think he wants to help Mayweather?! Mayweather profits the most from Mayweather-Pacquiao, not Arum. The man is one of the most vindictive men in the business and that's a fact. Forget his words, just look at his actions. Just look at the cards he's building and you can clearly see who he's building as future opponents. Pacquiao is nearing the end. He'd rather have Pacquiao lose to Crawford or Jessie Vargas and propel their careers so he has assets moving forward. I think we should worry less about counting strangers' money and more about protesting against false advertisements that tease us worse than Desiree at the TNA bar down the Strip.

Because people don't like to get lied to and when people smell BS they want to know the truth. When this thread started, Shadow you were more then enthusiastic about talking about Showtime subscriptions and the financials, now when certain facts come out you say we should worry less about counting strangers money. You can't have it both ways my friend. The main thing is Showtime is losing money because they are putting on crap tune-up fights because of tsAH.

-The Shadow :

Because people don't like to get lied to and when people smell BS they want to know the truth. When this thread started, Shadow you were more then enthusiastic about talking about Showtime subscriptions and the financials, now when certain facts come out you say we should worry less about counting strangers money. You can't have it both ways my friend. The main thing is Showtime is losing money because they are putting on crap tune-up fights because of tsAH.

Exactly, and the one telling the lies is Bob Arum. Showtime never released anything, Chris Mannix and Kevin Iole did, two guys who are well-connected and well-respected. I hear ya re: financials but what I did was discuss the information presented by those reports. And I do of course speak about the business aspect often, yes, because there are a lot of misconceptions out there. But what I meant was that I think that the discussion sometimes goes off track. Why do we start counting another man's money? Outside of that, why do people even care if SHO is losing money or not? Why does it matter to people? I don't particularly care whether it's bad deal or not, I just like the fact that Floyd is active. Another thing: SHO and Mayweather aren't forcing anyone to watch so I don't understand why anyone would complain about it. If the price tag is too high for some people, just vote with your wallet. And again, you bring up a valid point regarding lies. Arum himself has said (according to reports) that the media is like a dumb rock that you just kick around in any direction you want because they will believe anything you say. I think we should focus more on that and call him out on it. Maybe then will we get The Fight because both fighters want it and want it badly. He's not having negotiations with anyone and it's a shame that he has to tease the public. Rather than focusing on some random, unaffiliated, agenda-driven dude's speculation over the reports of respected, award-winning journalists.

-Radam G :

When this so-called "Cold War" started, I told four-eyed Ernest Joe and ev'ybodee and dey momma what da haps were go to be: "SHO is full of syet, and is gonna get its arse handle and handed to it." Has anyone ever broke down "Nostradamus?" DO IT, and you will SEE "radam" all up in the midsection of it. Hehe! Nost/RADAM/us. My predictions on type of jive and syet have creep up to 92 percent with the year closing out. Holla!

-The Shadow :

Hey Shadow.... I hear tsAH is putting his stable of 120+ fighters to work by having them matched on CBS who is producing a new boxing series in 2015. I guess its the next logical move... Do you know if there is any truth to it?

Al Haymon's going to save boxing, bro. And Dino Da Vinci. In the very near future, barring sabotage, you will see a uniform league, unions, a pension plan for fighters, drug testing and increased safety. To answer your question: History is repeating itself all over again. There's a reason for all these mass signings. The more assets you have, the more capital you can raise. The more capital you can raise, the more power you have. Al Haymon, by far, has the most assets in boxing. And to address your point again, he's turning the business model upside down. Instead of one promoter controlling the direction -- and the financial fate -- of a handful of managers who in turn control the fate of a handful of fighters, this manager now controls the promoters and EVERYTHING must go through him. All these traditionalist, change-resistant, roody poo promoters, managers and organizations are just struggling to conform, struggling to innovate and are panicking so they can protect their interests. This happened in the '80s. History is repeating itself all over again. Back then, these old farts were upset with young hotshot promoter Vince McMahon, who wanted to defy an unwritte rules -- not unlike the unwritten rule that in boxing, the fighters are the hoes or track horses (just being honest) -- in order to build his empire. He tried to work with them but they were disgusted with his audacity, upset with his lack of disregard for some invisible, mythical pecking order the old timers arrogantly thought existed. Refusing to get with the program, these guys then got into a room to conspire against McMahon. "And the only thing they could agree on was that they hated my guts," he said. So McMahon carried on as usual, signed all their talent to better deals and eventually ran them all out of business. It's the EXACT same thing that played out in the '80s. Just ask Randy, he was there. And he knows McMahon. (Who's far more ruthless than Haymon, by the way.) In the business of boxing, before, the guys in charged used the fighters. Now the guy in power works "with" the fighters. That's the difference. Haymon is preventing these guys from exploiting fighters and this is why they hate him. It's like when you empower a prostitute so the pimp can no longer use her. I once had a friend who was a prostitute (which she didn't tell me initially). She wanted to be a model -- isn't that always how it starts? -- but got caught up with a pimp in Vegas. I felt really bad for her, she was only 19 and not particularly bright. So I told her she could come out to Miami, get a fresh start, stay with me for a few weeks and see if she could find work. So her behavior started to change because she wasn't as easy to deal with. So he beat her and then convinced her that I was a cop trying to set her up. (Which is crazy because she saw my press pass with my name and my European passport.) Then he took her phone, deleted all contacts. Never heard from her again. In a way, I can't blame him. Though I was a friend and not a pimp, I was breaking "pimp code," trying to help someone he felt deserved none. His reaction, while understandable, still doesn't make it right. And that's the same type of mentality I see with these promoters a lot of time. Of course, those who have profited off this off shoot of slavery are scattering about, trying to maintain the status quo while somehow trying to convince people that a myriad of promoters benefit the sports when anyone in a true, honest moment can see that it doesn't. It's the current state of affairs that prevent mass regulation, ranking and matchmaking to take place in the first place! Gotta look at the big picture here. If you're a fan of boxing, not only should you applaud Haymon, you should root for him. But to summarize, you're right. He's going to put his 120+ business partners to work.

-Radam G :

Al Haymon's going to save boxing, bro. And Dino Da Vinci. In the very near future, barring sabotage, you will see a uniform league, unions, a pension plan for fighters, drug testing and increased safety. To answer your question: History is repeating itself all over again. There's a reason for all these mass signings. The more assets you have, the more capital you can raise. The more capital you can raise, the more power you have. Al Haymon, by far, has the most assets in boxing. And to address your point again, he's turning the business model upside down. Instead of one promoter controlling the direction -- and the financial fate -- of a handful of managers who in turn control the fate of a handful of fighters, this manager now controls the promoters and EVERYTHING must go through him. All these traditionalist, change-resistant, roody poo promoters, managers and organizations are just struggling to conform, struggling to innovate and are panicking so they can protect their interests. This happened in the '80s. History is repeating itself all over again. Back then, these old farts were upset with young hotshot promoter Vince McMahon, who wanted to defy an unwritte rules -- not unlike the unwritten rule that in boxing, the fighters are the hoes or track horses (just being honest) -- in order to build his empire. He tried to work with them but they were disgusted with his audacity, upset with his lack of disregard for some invisible, mythical pecking order the old timers arrogantly thought existed. Refusing to get with the program, these guys then got into a room to conspire against McMahon. "And the only thing they could agree on was that they hated my guts," he said. So McMahon carried on as usual, signed all their talent to better deals and eventually ran them all out of business. It's the EXACT same thing that played out in the '80s. Just ask Randy, he was there. And he knows McMahon. (Who's far more ruthless than Haymon, by the way.) In the business of boxing, before, the guys in charged used the fighters. Now the guy in power works "with" the fighters. That's the difference. Haymon is preventing these guys from exploiting fighters and this is why they hate him. It's like when you empower a prostitute so the pimp can no longer use her. I once had a friend who was a prostitute (which she didn't tell me initially). She wanted to be a model -- isn't that always how it starts? -- but got caught up with a pimp in Vegas. I felt really bad for her, she was only 19 and not particularly bright. So I told her she could come out to Miami, get a fresh start, stay with me for a few weeks and see if she could find work. So her behavior started to change because she wasn't as easy to deal with. So he beat her and then convinced her that I was a cop trying to set her up. (Which is crazy because she saw my press pass with my name and my European passport.) Then he took her phone, deleted all contacts. Never heard from her again. In a way, I can't blame him. I was breaking "pimp code," trying to help someone he felt deserved none. His reaction, while understandable, still doesn't make it right. And that's the same type of mentality I see with these promoters a lot of time. Of course, those who have profited off this off shoot of slavery are scattering about, trying to maintain the status quo while somehow trying to convince people that a myriad of promoters benefit the sports when anyone in a true, honest moment can see that it doesn't. It's the current state of affairs that prevent mass regulation, ranking and matchmaking to take place in the first place! Gotta look at the big picture here. If you're a fan of boxing, not only should you applaud Haymon, you should root for him. But to summarize, you're right. He's going to put his 120+ business partners to work.

I don't buy it. tsAH is going to fade to darkness or die like all the pass saviors. Bananas were saved. Boksing is like them -- crooked as a mutha -- and will remain so. No saviors or prophet or change allowed. Holla!

-deepwater2 :

Where do I begin? My main point is tsAH will not save boxing. Boxing will survive like it always has. Other points: 1) Vince Mcmahon is a great businessman and he monopolized WWF/WWE. Do you really want professional boxing monopolized by one person? 2) Most wrestling fans think that the WWE is watered down and boring compared to what it once was due to VM taking over and forcing it into a monopoly. 3) The WWE is losing money and its business model is failing. Recent example from business insider: 'Things are looking grim for World Wrestling Entertainment and its money-losing streaming video service, the WWE Network. In a sign of how hard the company is working to sign up new subscribers, the WWE announced Monday it will once again offer a one-week free trial to anyone who wants it. The offer, which doesn't even require people to provide a credit card number, is one of several recent indicators that the company isn't getting much closer to the 1.4 million global subscribers it needs to make the WWE Network profitable. The WWE Network gives fans access to the WWE's monthly special events ? which were previously available only on pay-per-view for a price of ~$55 each ? as well as old wrestling shows and new wrestling-related programming. The bad news for the company started in April, when it announced the WWE Network had only 667,000 subscribers after telling investors the service could have as many as 2 million subscribers by the end of the year. The following month, it released an adjusted business outlook that said the network would lose the company $50 million this year if subscription rates did not increase. That news, combined with a disappointing new TV rights contract, caused company stock to crash so badly that CEO and chairman Vince McMahon lost a third of his fortune in one day. " - Giving away free subscriptions might be a bad sign for Showtime when looking at this bit of info.? A good product sells itself it does not need incentives. -No wonder the PPV numbers that were leaked were way inflated. 4)Monopolies don't tend to work over periods of time,the free market usually breaks them up. 5) We have been getting a taste of terrible matchups on Showtime, including the undercard of Floyd's fight. If this is asign of how boxing will improve it better self destruct as soon as possible. 6)The cold war is coming to an end so instead of rooting for tsAH lets root for the great fights. This can go on but its already took up too much space.

-The Shadow :

Where do I begin? My main point is tsAH will not save boxing. Boxing will survive like it always has. Other points: 1) Vince Mcmahon is a great businessman and he monopolized WWF/WWE. Do you really want professional boxing monopolized by one person? 2) Most wrestling fans think that the WWE is watered down and boring compared to what it once was due to VM taking over and forcing it into a monopoly. 3) The WWE is losing money and its business model is failing. Recent example from business insider: 'Things are looking grim for World Wrestling Entertainment and its money-losing streaming video service, the WWE Network. In a sign of how hard the company is working to sign up new subscribers, the WWE announced Monday it will once again offer a one-week free trial to anyone who wants it. The offer, which doesn't even require people to provide a credit card number, is one of several recent indicators that the company isn't getting much closer to the 1.4 million global subscribers it needs to make the WWE Network profitable. The WWE Network gives fans access to the WWE's monthly special events — which were previously available only on pay-per-view for a price of ~$55 each — as well as old wrestling shows and new wrestling-related programming. The bad news for the company started in April, when it announced the WWE Network had only 667,000 subscribers after telling investors the service could have as many as 2 million subscribers by the end of the year. The following month, it released an adjusted business outlook that said the network would lose the company $50 million this year if subscription rates did not increase. That news, combined with a disappointing new TV rights contract, caused company stock to crash so badly that CEO and chairman Vince McMahon lost a third of his fortune in one day. " - Giving away free subscriptions might be a bad sign for Showtime when looking at this bit of info.? A good product sells itself it does not need incentives. -No wonder the PPV numbers that were leaked were way inflated. 4)Monopolies don't tend to work over periods of time,the free market usually breaks them up. 5) We have been getting a taste of terrible matchups on Showtime, including the undercard of Floyd's fight. If this is asign of how boxing will improve it better self destruct as soon as possible. 6)The cold war is coming to an end so instead of rooting for tsAH lets root for the great fights. This can go on but its already took up too much space.

Appreciate the input. We can agree to disagree and just allow it to play out. As for Vince, he became a billionaire and revolutionized the industry. The figures you refer to are the ones from the recently launched WWE Network, which is still in its transitioning period. One of the key things with something like this is re-educating the consumer into a different format of consumption. Before we had billion dollar internet IPOs like Alibaba, Facebook and Twitter, we had the dot-com bubble burst a few years prior. Vince knows what he's doing. But no matter what, there is one key element that cannot be up for contention: Al Haymon investing in excess in $20 million just to bring back boxing to a national audience is something NO ONE else is doing. Whether he's airing squash matches or main events, he's investing big bucks into bringing it back to mass audience -- something the suits aren't willing to do. FWIW, this was the same strategy McMahon employed back in the '80s before everything eventually took off. Lastly, the Cold War isn't ending; it's just getting started. Unfortunately. I'm rooting for boxing. It will always live. But he will take it to another level of prominence. I'm telling you. But like I said, we can agree to disagree and just wait and see how everything else plays out.

-brownsugar :

I here you Shadow.... Just no more breaking the pimp code....lol.

-The Shadow :

I here you Shadow.... Just no more breaking the pimp code....lol.

I wouldn't be able to work with Adonis S. that's for sure. Far too nice. Speaking of that topic, did you see what Jean Pascal ironically just tweeted at Adonis after he referred to himself as "Daddy Stevenson?" @AdonisSuperman Boss? Please! Let me put this in terms I know you'll understand. Haymon is your p*mp and you're his ho*. #puppet LMFAO!

-thegreyman :

If you're a fan of boxing then you should root for Al Haymon That's a lot of love you have for Haymon Shadow- are you certain it's well placed? Yes he works with fighters for their benefit- their financial benefit, and also for easy routes through the ranks of fighters to world titles. But I'm also a fan of good match ups, and that is not something that I need Haymon for. The more middlemen the worse as far as I'm concerned- be it networks, promoters, sanctioning bodies or Haymons- they're all usually just obstacles to what we as boxing fans actually want to see- fights!

-The Shadow :

If you're a fan of boxing then you should root for Al Haymon That's a lot of love you have for Haymon Shadow- are you certain it's well placed? Yes he works with fighters for their benefit- their financial benefit, and also for easy routes through the ranks of fighters to world titles. But I'm also a fan of good match ups, and that is not something that I need Haymon for. The more middlemen the worse as far as I'm concerned- be it networks, promoters, sanctioning bodies or Haymons- they're all usually just obstacles to what we as boxing fans actually want to see- fights!

Not sure I understand what you mean by well-placed? He's the middleman eliminator. So in that case, he's good for that, too. I'm just calling it like I see it. Like I said, we can all agree to disagree and see how it plays out in the end.

-Skibbz :

Not sure I understand what you mean by well-placed? He's the middleman eliminator. So in that case, he's good for that, too. I'm just calling it like I see it. Like I said, we can all agree to disagree and see how it plays out in the end.

Na mate Al Haymon is terrible for the fans and that's why he keeps his mug so well hidden so he doesn't become a target. You sound like his lap dog at times championing Haymon in every fight regardless of his actions. Remove the wool from your eyes and start seeing the facts for what they are. You can't live a sheep's life forever..

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