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| Here's Manny and Freddie on Monday, when Pacquiao and Coach Roach arrived in Dallas. |
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Pacquiao's Sparring Is Becoming Legendary
By Frank Lotierzo
Watching two upper-tier fighters/contenders spar while preparing for an upcoming fight is the highlight of any activity in a boxing gym. Sparring was my favorite part of training back in the day. So much so, that on the days I didn't spar I felt as though my workout was incomplete and was one day further away from getting to where I wanted to be. There's only one way for a fighter to improve and that is for him to spar and fight.
The most intense sparring I've ever witnessed was between former light heavyweight and cruiserweight champ, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and former light heavyweight contender Jerry "The Bull" Martin in the early eighties. The closet parallel I can make to describe the rounds they logged is to suggest imagining Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez weighing 185 pounds wearing training gloves and head gear while going at it five or six rounds a day. I would've paid to see them spar each other every day of the week if that's what it took just to have the pleasure of watching them work together.
When it comes to sparring, I've never read nor have I had it conveyed to me by any fighters or trainers stories like the ones that surface about Manny Pacquiao's sparring. Has anyone reading this ever heard of Pacquiao getting his butt kicked in the gym even once? Or heard of someone who has even held their own with him? If it's happened during the last four or five years, it seldom has surfaced. Yet there's a flood of reports pertaining to his sparring on a daily basis after almost every workout. And that's nowhere near the case pertaining to Paul Williams, Floyd Mayweather, Edwin Valero, Chad Dawson or either of the Klitschko brothers when they train and spar in preparation for a big fight.
Pacquiao's legendary sparring further illustrates just how much he truly loves to fight. It's rather apparent that Manny brings the same kind of passion and joy to his sparring sessions that he seems to bring to every aspect of boxing -- and he genuinely seems to be a man who loves what he's doing for a living.
Earlier this week Pacquiao said, “I am ready to rumble (referencing to his March 13th bout with Joshua Clottey). I can’t wait to get into the ring. I am feeling very good and I am excited to put on a memorable show for the boxing fans. I want to make them happy again.”
Pacquiao reiterating that he wants to put on a good fight for the fans no doubt endears him to them a lot, and I believe that he means it to a point. But more than that Pacquiao projects from his deeds in the ring that he really loves ring combat and can't wait to glove up on fight night, in much the same way Roberto Duran and "Smokin" Joe Frazier did. I'm sure there may be a few reading this and saying to themselves that I forgot about Mike Tyson... and they'd be wrong.
Tyson had a presence about him that projected he couldn't wait for the bell to start the fight, and when he was having his way with his opponent he looked as if he loved being inside the ring. However, when Mike was met with resistance like he was when he fought Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, he wasn't nearly as willing and stopped letting his hands go and began thinking about possibly losing leading to him being more measured offensively.
That's the polar opposite of Duran and Frazier who actually got stronger and became more confident and willing as the fight got tougher and intensified. And Pacquiao is cut from the same cloth as they were and relishes the joy of physical combat. In his previous two fights against Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto, both tried to bring it to him only to realize they were confronted by what must've seemed like a school of piranha who raised them one.
Hatton tried to jump on him early hoping to assert himself physically, and was met by a buzzsaw who made him pay for his deed. Cotto, after seeing what happened to Hatton, tried to go about it a little more measured. When Miguel felt Pacquiao was stepping back to reset, he tried to impose himself physically and not only did Manny oblige him to do so, he let him have a few free shots at his body and literally fed off of Cotto not doing any real damage when he landed with his Sunday left-hook in succession.
For his WBO title defense against Clottey, it's been reported in several Philippine newspapers that Pacquiao has worked with Jamie Kavanagh, Mike Dallas, Dave Rodela, Ray Beltran, Shawn Porter, Jose Benavidez, Abdullay Amidu and Steve Forbes as his spar-mates. Forget what their records are, they're all in good shape physically and present him with something unique. Some are small and quick, others are a little bigger and more physical and present varying styles. And the reports coming out of Pacquiao's training camp all indicate that he's had his way with every one of them. And it seems as the fights gets closer Pacquiao is looking better every time out and is once again peaking at the right time. Which confirms that team Pacquiao knows exactly how to get the most out of it's sparring work as they ready Manny for his upcoming bouts.
Maybe because we're in the midst of a media explosion and almost everything is on YouTube, at least for a little while before it's taken down, Pacquiao's sparring as he prepares for his major bouts have drawn a lot of attention, more so than any fighter in recent memory.
Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
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brownsugar:
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When Duran used to have his long layoffs later in his career,.. (when he went up to middleweight) you could actually see him burn calories,.. literally slim down right before your eyes,.. and fight himself into shape,.. an athlete to the core...Pac ain't too bad himself...
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 04:59:34 PM
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SALT lover:
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Yes, I've seen it. Check Pacquiao-Cotto 24/7 and you'll see him gettin' his butt whooped and also frustrated with Roach tryin' to cheer him up.............and that doesn't neccessarily have anythin' to do with anythin' Lotierzo, that's just another one of your moves to condescen' Pacquiao. Sparrin' is just to help train the fighter, and adpt to different game plans whether he looks good or bad.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 05:14:56 PM
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The Saint:
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I think Shaw Porter stunned Pacquiao at least once, and I know Amir Khan gave Pacquiao difficulties at first. I don't know if that counts as getting his butt kicked.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 05:47:45 PM
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buddyo:
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the pacman is a true professional who could represent boxing
in its most respectable persona. it is his personality traits that
many younger boxers today try to and are proud to emulate
his work habits, that the fights should be done in the ring and
not by bluberring negatives about possible opponents outside
of the ring. as more and more boxers are imitating him so would i think that boxing will find its way back into the mainstream.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 06:43:43 PM
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Billy:
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This article hit his success right on the button. Having quality sparring partners is paramount to being an elite. This is what has given him the edge because he is already challegened before even going into the ring. I like Floyd but we hardly know who he spars with and I believe his sparring partners aren't as prime as Pac's.
Sparring is the best training in boxing and offers the greatest reward in training.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 06:54:05 PM
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xeno:
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If there is anyone who could put all sparrings of pacman on dvds he would surely rake in thousands of dollars selling them.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 07:16:34 PM
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out box:
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@ SALT lover & The Saint
I'm Sorry for you guyz, you dont know what your saying.
Have you seen manny spar? I guess not.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 07:34:58 PM
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Eastar:
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Booooooooooooring!!! Who cares about sparring? Only Pactards do. I'm more concerned about how he looks in the clinic when he takes random blood tests. Peace.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 07:51:14 PM
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Salt hater:
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A hateful idiot is such a blind azz. His brain sends bullshit signals to his beady eyeballs. You won't find one sparring mate ever saying that he beat up Pacquiao and collected the $1,000 bounty for knocking him down. Frank Lotierzo should have added in his story that there are piles of lies of sparring mates beating up Roberto Duran, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, etc., etc. Eyewitnesses are always better than earwitnesses. Earwitnesses carry big hatred and lies in their little old hearts fo' sure!
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 07:56:04 PM
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#1 PacFan "Pac by TKO in 8":
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This is the reason why Pacquiao gets better and better each time he fights. Roach brings in contenders to veterans when it comes to sparring partners. The sparring session I want to surface is the one when Manny and Linarez got it on. I heard Linarez held his own and even manange to get Pac mad. It was really competetive according to Roach. This is what most people don't realize about Pac is his intensity during training. He trains like a crazy TaZmanina devil. He don't spar with big guys for nothing. He is preparing his body to endure a punch from bigger boxers.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 07:57:43 PM
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adrein:
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Frank, maybe you missed the point of pre-fight sparring session's real purpose. The sparring partner would never give any help to the main fighter if such sparring partner would not emulate the moves, the speed and the firepower of the main fighter's future opponent. In such case, giving fits to your sparring partner does not really mean you are beating your sparring partner as a fighter because your sparring partner has to follow certain instruction to copy the style and exact moves of your future opponent. It doesn't also mean that you are bound to beat your future opponent because the power, stamina, timing, defense and speed would vary from one fighter to another.
So forget about sparring triumphs because any fighter can't use those as gauge of possible success but it would help the fighter to execute his fightplan and teach him to make adjustment during the actual fight.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 08:00:29 PM
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SALT lover:
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XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See ya later "Mr fo' sure"
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 08:03:44 PM
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SALT lover:
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XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See ya later "Mr fo' sure"
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 08:03:47 PM
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Rico sioting of Quezon City:
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...Joshua will have a hard time come Saturday night coz his sparring partners are too big and definitely too slow. Ok he got good chin as he claimed, but with manny's punch accelerated by his speed is like a Sonny Liston or Earnie shavers punch...Ok, Joshua is taller and with big shoulders to just shed off Mannys punches, but when Pacquiao gears towards his solar plexus that will leave his chin open...Lights out !!!
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 08:18:47 PM
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BERGMUFF:
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roach offers a thousand dollars to the sparring partners, if they could knock the pacman down. so far he has not paid yet. the sparring partners who could not give the pacman a good workout gets a check right away and never gets to spar with the pacman again.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 08:59:25 PM
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MANG RESTY:
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Pacquiao loves what he does and that is what makes him successful plus the fact that he loves the fans-sincerely
Pacquiao fans are invited to chat with us at www pacfans-corner com
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 09:02:27 PM
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#1 PacFan "Pac by TKO in 8":
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Let me make things clear for all you Pachaters, Clottey fired his old trainer after the Cotto fight and tried to get a new trainer from Ghana. Most of you saying that his old trainer couldn't get a visa. You were wrong.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 09:04:23 PM
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ali @ Frank:
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Who the hell cares about sparring all I care about is what a fighter does when the lightS come on. Come on are u on Pac nuts so tough that your going to talk about his sparring None of the guys he is fighting are A-Class fighters im pretty sure not even B-level fighters so why even post it on TSS.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 09:10:41 PM
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Floydgoesdownin10:
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THERE IS THE SECRET TO PACQUIAO'S POWER AND ABILITY, FRAUD JR.
You and your delusional family knows that Fraud Jr. can't hang with Pacquiao.
It is destiny for Pacquiao to fight Fraud. This is the end of the world that the Mayan's predicted. Not the end of the world, but the beginning of righting the wrongs.
The wicked, the liars, crooks, frauds, phonies, and etc. are now going to be made an example of and exposed. In the past they use to benefit and reap rewards for their cheating ways, not anymore. Clemens, Bonds, Madoff, Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, and the likes will be exposed with the help of the internet. TIGER WOODS is just the latest example of a fraud to get caught.
Floyd Mayweather is a phony and a fraud. Pacquiao is the cure for such sickness.
It is Fraud's destiny and his turn to be exposed for what he is, a phony and a fraud, a cheat and an immoral person. All those were shown in what he did against Marquez. Marquez is really just the carrot into getting Fraud to fight Pacquiao.
Fraud figures that he had an easy fight against Marquez while Pacquiao struggled with him. His delusions won't allow him to see that Pacquiao fought Marquez at his best and at his natural and most effective weight. If Pacquiao fought Marquez now at 144, Marquez in KO'd in 6 rounds or less. If Pacquiao had a two pound advantage over Marquez, the fight would not last 3 rounds.
As always, Fraud's fight with Mosley will be over hyped and then delivers a huge stinker like the rest of his fights.
Here's the fight:
Round 1-11 Fraud runs, back pedals, jabs, circle, pot shot, repeat. End of round
Round 12 Fraud is being chased by the old and tired Mosley, Fraud is taunting him. Everyone is greatly disappointed, AGAIN! LMAO!
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 09:32:43 PM
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in touch:
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Sparring is the most important part of training. I can't believe how many guys are writing, "who cares about sparring." Out of all the elements of training, it is the single most important. That's where a fighter prepares physically and mentally to break his opponent. If he can do it in sparring, chances are he stands a chance of doing it in a fight. If he can't do it in sparring, it's not gonna happen come fight night. This is the very reason Pac is a cut above the rest. He trains with full dedication. He gives every ounce of energy in that training session. And thus gets rewarded come fight night.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 10:29:52 PM
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jin:
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pac is not a perfect fighter, everyone knows that. whether he get's his butt kicked on sparring or not it doesn't matter because he really loves to take all the punishment
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 10:41:38 PM
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Frank Z:
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how a guy spars in the gym is the best indicator, and pac might be one of the best gym fighters there is. there is in the ring conditioning and out of the ring conditioning, and in the ring conditioning is a different ballgame. pac has shown over and over that he has both in abundance. if pac can do well against all these different body types and styles while they are going full speed against him, then it really says something about his craftiness as a boxer, and it's therefore no surprise that he's still improving late in his career. THE most important thing about a fighter is his ability to adapt, and manny's showing that he's getting excellent at that. floyd brags about his ability to adjust on the fly, and rightfully so, but now one has to wonder if pacquiao's closing that gap on him. freddie roach is from the old school golden era of boxing in the eddie futch lineage, and everything he has pacquiao do has very solid reasoning behind it. old school training is truly the best, and pacquiao seems to be taking it through the roof with the right functional strength training from alex ariza, and the right nutrition from traditional southeast asian foods and not having to restrict calories.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 10:52:00 PM
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Anony - just watcged the Cotto vs. Pacquiao replay:
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WELL MY FELLOW TSS FRIENDS HERE... after watching the replay for the first time and doing a cool head assessment... I have to reaffirm myself in not talking trash about Pacman's use of illegal substances..... I mean, what's the point???? All of you who call yourself "the illustrious wiseguys of boxing" knows the truth... I mean, if you really know boxing you just can't dismiss the fact that Pacquiao didn't even move when Cotto landed solid punches on him. There was times that Cotto's jab landed Manny coming forward like fireball... you know your boxing, so what happens when the two trains meet both in motion?? It happens what happened to Cotto but not to Pacquiao... AND NOT EVEN ONCE..... and please underline that.... NOT EVEN ONCE PACQUIAO FELT THE POWER OF COTTO???.... sorry but I just can't F* swallow it. Larry Merchant even said... "well... he walks right through Cotto's punches with no damage made... I don't know, too strong... too good" and Jim cuts him right there. MAYBE YOU AND I WILL NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH but please, if you are a real boxing knowledgeable.... you have to make the right assesment... watch how many times Cotto hit Manny flush and he comes forward like nothing.... .... while Érik Morales (70% knockout ratio) and Juan Manuel Marquez (74% knockout ratio) rocked Manny good... but Cotto (79% knockout ratio) two or three divisions higher... didn't even move Manny.... so guys.... you do the stupid assessment..... Start by noticing the Mayweathers say Manny is on illegal substances because they might have used them on themselves or other boxers.... that's how they can tell the difference... because THEY KNOW!!!! That's why Manny is fighting Clottey instead of random testing.... and now he is beating all his sparring partners.... always improving and more power... hum??? And I really don't mind any of you calling on me to "be cool or relax or sore looser" I really don't mind because I know you will watch the fight again at some point and remember what I'm saying... "Too strong... too good...".... ONE THING IS FOR SURE... PACQUIAO WILL NEVER FIGHT DOING RANDOM TESTING.... and please don't BS with those stupid comments like.. "he is not doing it because he is not willing to sell his soul to the Mayweather's" or bla, bla, bla... The truth is Manny will never test like that. PERIOD. And by the way... if you are a Pacquiao die hard fan... well, live with it... your fighter is not clean. Watch the fight before replying to this comment. Even better, watch it with no audio and look at the way Cotto hit Manny.... it is surreal
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:04:04 PM
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Transient:
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Bags packed . . Dallas here we come!!! Looking for steaks . . and the anticipation of fistic action.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:05:31 PM
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Filipino crabs:
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Here we go again . . we have a few filipinos, trying to sound american or whatever nationality . . and spraying dirt (in the guise of sound analysis). Crab mentality is definitely eating up these few pinoys that could not stomach the success of Manny . . who had to do it the hard and long way. What is sowed and sprayed around . . will eventually come back to roost and hope you get a taste of your nefarious medicine in the near future.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:10:22 PM
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PPV enthusiast:
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I could not afford to go to Dallas . . but, will try to get the next best thing. PPV . . high definition . . with awesome food and friends. Lets go Pac . . looking forward to awesome action . . with ebb and flow . . punctuated with highlights!
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:12:39 PM
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gochie:
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Well if Manny Pacquiao is on something, pls tell us what ist it?
Maybe you are a mayweather clan, trying to discredit the Pacman, Always blah blah blah, Well just bring on Floyd Mayweather, lets see what he's got, prove himself that he is really good and the best, fight the Pacman. hehehehe.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:21:32 PM
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Frank Z@ Anony:
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As much as i hate to say this, there MAY be something to that. i still maintain my stance of show me some evidence any evidence that's a positive indicator, but i was told about arguello when he fought pryor, and apparently alexis hit pryor with some shots that should have stopped a truck, but pryor walked through them each time, and no one suspected anything. turns out according to luis resto panama lewis mixed asthma medicine with their water in the corner between rounds so that pryor would have his lungs opened back up during the fight and have an extra kick of energy to stop him. the way pacquiao seemed to show absolutely no physical effects does make you wonder a bit. i DO believe still that it is because he is putting everything together with his conditinoing and nutrition, but there's always that what if, especially now that he's refusing to compply to drug tests. however ridiculous the first accusations may have sounded, and they do sound ridiculous coming from floyd sr., it's out there now, take the random drug test and shut everyone up. if it makes you mentally feel weak, get over it, you've overcome far worse conditions in your life.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:22:00 PM
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SALT lover@Anony:
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Unfortunately, nobody's gonna listen to that at this moment, Anony. Pacquiao fever and FANATISM is so high they're gonna dismiss it at first hand, writin' bunch of nonsense, tryin' to answer all the things you wrote. Dude, don't worry, things will clear out eventually, but don't bring it here anymore.
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:23:50 PM
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SALT lover:
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............................well, ALMOST nobody XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just finish readin' Frank Z. Forgot there is at least very few intelligent readers that go for facts rather than feelings. Good writin' Frank!
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:25:54 PM
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Isaiah:
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Alright Anony. That's a pretty good arguement and presentation of facts. I'll have to say this makes me curious about what you presented here. I'm still a Pacquiao fan, but you have a point...
Tuesday Mar 9, 2010 11:50:41 PM
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ERIC:
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WORK ETHIC AND DEDICATION IN BOXING IS THE SIGNATURE OF PACMAN, THE GREAT BOXER. FURTHER, PACMAN IS TRULY THE BEST POUND4POUND BOXER IN THE WORLD. IF YOU HATE PACMAN..GO AHEAD!STILL I WILL NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT PACMAN IS CONSIDERED TO BE NUMERO UNO. COME MARCH 13, 2010...YOU WILL SEE PACMAN IN ANOTHER FORM.....WIIIITTTTTHHHHH OOOOOUUUUUUT DOOOOUBBBBTTT!!!!!!!!!!!! A NEW HERO OF BOXING!!!!!!!SO, FRAUD MAYWEATHER....EAT UR BLACK EGO!!!COZ IT WILL NOT LAST FOREVER BECAUSE U ARE NOT THE DIAMOND KING, PACMAN IS!!!!!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:01:47 AM
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#1 PacFan "Pac by TKO in 8":
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@Anony, Pacquiao-Marquez 1, Manny got hit in that fight so many times the only thing moving was his head. That fight was at 126 where I believe he felt comfortable at the time. Manny campaigning at 130 after the Morales trilogy showed he was struggling to make weight. Pacquiao-Marqez 2, Manny struggled but barely making the weight limit and rehydrating to 140+ pounds. Jr. Welterweight or Welterweight is his most comfortable weight class which is why he takes those punches very well. I'm with Frank Z on the fact that his conditioning coach has a lot to do with his ability to hang with the big boys. I would also point out that after the 4th round second knockdown, Cotto's punches didn't have the sting it had from the beginning of the fight.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:49:47 AM
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#1 PacFan "Pac by TKO in 8":
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Manny has always shown that he has a good chin, it's just that as he moved up to a more comfortable weight he can take punches from bigger guys. When was the last time Manny has knockeddown? I believe it was at 112 or 118.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:54:38 AM
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seriously:
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Lotierzo you are dumber than I had thought so far.
You really think Pacquiao's sparring reports are the complete picture? and you were a boxer!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:00:33 AM
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Frank Z@ #1Pacfan:
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They didn't have the same sting, the margarito fight aftereffects showed themselves there too, since he had manny against the ropes and he did not move his hands. but one punch that does make me scratch my head is early on, i forget the rouond, bbut he caught manny with a perfect left hook, turns his leg and back into it, knocked manny onto his back leg, manny bounces it off like it's nothing. that's the one thing that makes me say "you know what, maybe". at the very least it's something manny needs to come out and clear up.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:08:00 AM
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#1 PacFan "Pac by TKO in 8':
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@Frank Z, you also have to understand that Cotto didn't land shots on Manny's chin. Those punches mostly landed on his ear and right side of his face. If you don't hit Manny flush on the chin like Marquez was able to do in the second fight you aren't going to hurt him. Cotto to me throws arm punches that do not look as powerful as people think. Cotto is a puncher who breaks you down in the later rounds by accuracy and volume. Stalky fighters like him rely on smothering there opponents and landing inside shots. Manny wanted to test his power which was why he was getting hit in the beginning. He felt them and was confident he can take them. As Cotto weakened by round 4, those punches didn't have any effect on Manny.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:28:45 AM
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nashingun:
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this is what i gotta say why pacman is the best...
manny ones was a one left handed boxer when he beat barrera.
a after few years after he can do just as anything inside the ring, weird angles and smooth foot and head movements, all this resemble manny as one great boxer!
but what really is his key to victory?
answer:
dedication to this sport and faith in his God.
manny is a diligent student of roach. even at this stage of his maurity as a boxer manny still absorbs everything roach teaches. a good student with a good teacher. thats what it is.
manny onced had a dream. in that dream he saw himself his hands raised up high a victorious prized fighter. waking up he took and claimed from heaven the dream as a promise. thats why you always see him kneels to pray before and after a fight, to claim that promise. mind you friends, in faith nothing is impossible.
so stop speculating, you know where mannys strength comes from.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:49:31 AM
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Frank Z@ #1Pacfan:
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ear shots and temple shots can hurt fighters too. it does not have to be clear on the chin, it can still quake down to fighters' legs and make them at least a little shakey. cotto threw a lot of arm punches in that fight but he's far from an arm puncher. he usually digs down well and sits on his thighs to turn into his shots, and he was still able to in the first half of that fight on occasion. and those punches did not affect manny, which does raise a few eyebrows, since even margarito did not do that on cotto.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:55:43 AM
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Bobby Pacquiao:
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To all you boxing geniuses, show proof that a boxer who uses PEDs (any kind of PEDs known to man) can develop a granite chin ?
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:02:26 AM
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Smithy:
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Well, i respect your opinion anony but guess what, it's still conjecture--which as you know by now, will not hold water in any reasonable person's mind. You have to factor in some other elements to what you've said about KO percentages. Pac had been draining himself in the lightweight div. against EM and JMM: when you do, your punch resistance significantly drops. Pac simply had outgrown those divisions and his body adapted well to the increased weight. This made him even more punch-resistant and added much also to his power. Just a counter-balancing thought--conjecture, if you mah. ;)
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:05:54 AM
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Johnny D:
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PED does not give you a strong chin. Having a great chin is God given gift. PED or HGH is just used to build muscle mass and to recover faster. Shit if Manny took PEDs and takes 7000 calories a day he would be like those short body builders competing in the Mr Universe body building competition. I know we live in a steroid era but I know Manny is clean. He does show any mood swings he does act lying an asshole he does not act like primadona this guy is still the same humble guy that I have followed since t
1998 only richer more disciplined and much improved boxer. So stop bashing Manny and enjoy this ATG. This guy is giving us a great show everytime. Haters are missing a great performance by a great man.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:58:38 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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How's this for a response. Miguel Cotto was a good but not great puncher at welterweight. At 28 years old, before his fight with Pacquiao, Ring Magazine had a cover story asking whether he was Finished. As in done. He never hurt Clottey. I was there. Clottey shook him off like he tossed away a child's train engine. He was never dominant at welterweight. The fact is Manny loves to fight ... and like Pryor and Duran ... is inspired by taking shots. He kicked Miguel Cotto's ass from post to post. Get over the BS comments. You got nothing. As in Zero. Cotto lost badly to a better fighter. He would lose if the fought every day. And as much as I respect you all, your suspicions are beginning to damage your credibility.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 03:27:04 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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Muhammed Ali must have been using the early generation of PED's because man could he take a punch. And Joe Frazier, what was on that Vaseline he used to protect his face after getting cross over jab all night by the GOAT all night long. It wasn't Xylocaine, Cocaine or the Clear. It was training, will, perseverance and balls. In Joe's case there was a dash of pickle brine and a large portion of refusal to bend. In Ali's it's called being the greatest.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 03:44:13 AM
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orpheus:
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ive seen him get his butt kicked, as you put it, in the gym...and also in the ring....
once again, another measured and unbiased article by FLO...
looking forward for the next article where no doubt, you'll criticise the other guy...
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 03:48:18 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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I just watched it again. Manny kicked Cotto's ass. Period. Manny took Cotto's shots but blinded him with speed, timing and power from both hands. Too much too often. Live with the loss.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:10:21 AM
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petrion:
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saltlover got it right, time will tell all. sooner, later, or when we are old and gray. truth always comes out. so give it a rest, eh?
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:10:04 AM
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Isaiah:
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I too have the Pacquiao/Cotto fight still On Demand. I shouldn't let a seed of doubt try to reach me so easily. Manny has given me no reason to suspect, besides being a great fighter and doing well going up in weight. Sorry folks. I need something more concrete to put on a man then Xylocaine Floyd's lies. Like Shane Mosley said, on "May 1st", "May" WILL have his "1st" loss. LOL! If the only evidence anyone has against the Pacman is, he's still strong, fast and can take a punch well, well I have to say that's probaly Freddie Roach and the team's regime hard at work.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:20:53 AM
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gibola:
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Best sparring legend/story is the teenage Tony Ayala and welter champ Pipino Cuevas.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 06:00:09 AM
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Frank Z@ Fe'Roz:
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There is almost no doubt in most people's minds that manny's ability to take shots and come back from them comes from his conditioning and heart, in addition to having a cotto in front of him that had been broken in the past year and a half, but you cannot blame people for asking questions in light of these recent events. for example, if you told someone who knew of you but did not know you personally that you were being accused of doing drugs, their first question in their mind would be "well ARE you?" however ridiculous it might seem and manny had his chance to shut the doubt out for good and he didn't do it. i don't knock him if being clean he didn't want to bow to someone's goofy rants on youtube, but if you're not gonna explain yourself then you have to accept that some people are gonna do it for you, whether it is for you OR against you, and you can't blame objective people for listening to both sides.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 08:58:30 AM
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Anony:
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LIKE I SAID BEFORE.... YOU HAVE TO WATCH THE FIGHT AGAIN..... and then make comments. Fool only yourself... go ask a coach if you are a writer or if you want to know more.... they should know better than us. I've been watching boxing enough to understand Pacquiao's could had win the fight anyways BUT.... not the way he did walking right through Cotto's punches like nothing.... THAT AIN'T NORMAL. His best chance was to come in and out and box with good defense taking BIG CARE of not being hit flush by Cotto. That would be normal. Just like Roy Jones did to John Ruíz.. See, that's normal.. the more agile and intelligent fighter can win even two divisions higher.... but not like Pacquiao did to Cotto. Think about this, if Pacquiao KO Clottey... he will be the first one to do it EVER???.... should we celebrate Pacman's power if he do it??? Really??? I will leave you all with one more thought..... Politics and secrets don't mix very well.... we might get to know the truth pretty soon. And by the way.... I don't give a sh*t what you guys think of "my credibility" or my free-flow way of speaking.... I've been watching boxing long enough to not fool myself. The point of being a fan of the sport is TO LEARN and TO ENJOY fair competition. When "fair" don't show up you got to be knowledgeable enough to AT LEAST distrust.... go watch the fight again.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 09:05:20 AM
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Anony:
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Well.... add the fact that Pacquiao is losing million$$$$$ of dollar$$$ fighting the wrong man.... Be sincere to yourself... who you really want Pacquiao to fight???? Why is not happening????
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 09:12:00 AM
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SALT lover@Anony:
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Dude, but remember, and this is somethin' the PAcFANATICS didn't tell you, cuz they don't know boxin'. But in this sport, gettin' hurt doesn't have much to do with the other guy' punchin' power, it has to do with not seein' where and when the punches are comin' from. Pacquiao could withstand Cotto's punches, cuz he knew where and when they were comin' from, especially since they were fightin' on the inside. As simple as that. I agree with you onPacquiao's cold feet on random blood testin' is very fishy and there ABSOLUTELY NO REASON (I don't give damn what his lovers say) for a clean athlete to say no to any testin', anytime, anyplace. I thought Pacquiao was gonna take the test, but he didn't. I don't buy the dumb theories defendin' him of his trainin', nutrition, "white rice", "religion" and etc.etc., cuz he ain't the only one in the World trainin' hard, eatin' well, nor religious. I'm still not gonna say he's on anythin', but, it would't surprise. At this point, it doesn't surprise AT ALL if he is usin' somethin' illegal to better his rendition in the ring......................... specially used in trainin'.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 09:13:24 AM
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The Saint:
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@Anony - just watcged the Cotto vs. Pacquiao replay:When was the last time you saw Cotto knock anybody out COLD? The thing is, Cotto is a clubber and while he's strong and very heavy handed, he is NOT a sharp puncher. He beats people up over the course of several rounds. He's got heavy thudding blows but not the shocking power that can separate a fighter from his conciousness. Cotto doesn't really strafe or clip his opponent's chins. His punches are sweeping and heavy. In my opinion, Clottey will be the more dangerous puncher despite his less impressive KO ratio.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 09:33:58 AM
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El Maromero:
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Antonio Margarito took a lot more punishment from a prime Cotto than Manny did. I pay to see Manny fight but Im always talking s#it about him for not fighting Marquez a 3rd time. I know he can take a punch, he has been hit harder and more often in other fights. At the same time I believe that he should take the test if he wants to fight Floyd. Hey, you guys see in other sites that Roach wants them to fight if they want to fight so bad than take the test or shut the hell up
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 09:49:17 AM
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SALT lover:
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Oh yes, El Maromero mentions it too, Anony. Remember Cotto was never the same after the Margarito fight. That fight took a lot of him, and the Miguel Cotto of the 2007 died that night. The Miguel Cotto after Margarito was a punchy and messed up one. I didn't thought so before, but he was destroyed that night. If Margarito was havin' loaded gloves then, that's messed up. And if Pacquiao was also cheatin' with roids........................damn, man. That dude, Cotto, has a curse. Later!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 09:53:27 AM
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Anony:
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YOU ALL HAVE GOOD POINTS... the only little-bitty-detail is that Pacman's natural division would be 135 pounds more or less and Cotto is a natural hard hitting welterweight. On the other hand, Margarito's fight shows the ability of Cotto to get punish and stay in the fight.... even when Margarito more likely was using LOADED GLOVES... So how come Pacman, two divisions lower and 5'6" has the same power as a 5'11" guy with loaded gloves??????? This is what I'm talking about... you don't have to agree with me but how come people get blinded and just trust "nice guy, never heard of roids" Pacman???? If it were Cotto afraid of a needle, then people here in Puerto RIco will be asking him (or forcing him) to test just to shut the critics and if he didn't submit to the test... I'm sure half of Puerto RIco will not trust him even if he is national hero. You can be a fan and have favorites boxers... but be a fan of the sports first.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 10:25:28 AM
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El Maromero:
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Manny is coming from a smaller weight class but he didn't look small next to Cotto
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 10:28:03 AM
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MisterLee:
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Wow , some of ya'll be entertaining "banned substances" fo' sho! Sup Frank Z! There's nothing to hate about simple sparring sessions... it's totally non-controversial, entertaining, and legendary. If the article was about floyd's sparring, i don't think "pac fans" would come out of the wood work to hate on it. It is what it is. It also shows the truth is what pple want it to be. The way Pacquiao winked could be a link to his "PED usage".
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 10:41:44 AM
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MisterLee rephrases:
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Some ya'll be TAKING "banned substances". Yo Frank Z! Just saying sup! The comments after weren't directed to you! Holler!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 10:42:59 AM
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Salt hater is Middle Eastern:
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The jacked-up s**t just keep fizzling. Damn idiots are like deer watching the on-coming headlights before their azzes are mashed up into a million pieces. Making stupid statements about posters here trying to act like Americans is so damn juvenile, ethnocentric and bold. Okay! Pacquiao is taking that American purse of 15 million dollars plus. Clottey is taking a million and half dollars plus. These haters on this internet ain't taking sh**, but medications, a bill and are paying the salaries of foreign fighters. Oh, yes! Look at it anyway that you like, but you always PAY. Go ahead and turn Pacquiao into one of your myths. Santa Claus is on some heavy roids. That fool's roids are so powerful that he and his reindeer can fly through the sky on a sled. Yea, RIGHT! One thunderbolt and those damn reindeer would crash through somebody's home with fat-azz Santa. Ho! Ho! Ho! Look at the tooth fairy. American kids and probably some adults are knocking out their teeth and putting them under pillows to get money. What a bunch crap that is taught on the land of the U.S.A. The one about the Easter Bunny is out of the world. Now, anybody should know that this f***er is on PEDs. He/she lays eggs like a damn chicken Mayweather. Oops! My bad! I mean ducky or maybe rabbit, because he runs fast. Anyway, ain't a rabbit on PEDs full of s***! Pacquiao is going to deep fry the secretary bird's butt and like always the American Eagle is going to $hit! The Asian and African get paid, and the American myths continue! Fo' sure!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 11:25:48 AM
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Robert Curtis:
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You know, folks, I'm one of the few who actually picked Pac over Oscar back when nobody believed in Pac, which included most of the TSS scribes. I remember EM telling me not to gloat. But I have to say that these gushing articles about Manny are becoming just too much and much too frequent. Maybe TSS should become GFM: Gay For Manny. What next? An article about how Manny pees golden necklaces and craps only platinum bricks?
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 11:35:46 AM
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Frank Z@ Robert Curtis:
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See elie seckbach's material on pacman. see if you can find an objective piece of reporting anywhere concerning pacquiao in his videos.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 11:40:49 AM
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MLB:
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SALT Hater that is funny. I never thought about Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny. Now I see why the Mayweathers and his American nuthuggers think that Manny Pacquiao is on A-Side Meth. A substance that the Mayweather claim can help Manny Pacquiao take punches and even walk through bullets. Americans are quick to believe in myths, black propaganda, black magic, steroids and PEDs. Don't mention the secretary bird. They are too lazy to learn about it. I bet that they are trying to guess why are you talking about a secretary's bird. Some people are so birdbrained. Clottey's fighting style is like the secretary bird, as is more Ghanians. I take Manny Pacquiao to knock out the secretary-bird-ilike Clottey in round four or five.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:04:45 PM
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MisterLee:
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Dude man, more nuts here than the porn industry! Salt hater, what does his ethnicity have to do with his comments? you're not even coherent, finish your GED, then talk! @ Bobby C: whine whine whine. Oh woe is me. You sound like such a victim fo' sho! I feel the man crush another boxer writer has on Floyd is equally huge, if not more, b/c it's substantiated on zero action, except his wins over Ricky Hatton and Juan Manuel Marquez. Sparring sessions, recent victories, and his place in victory are at least substantive material. Holler!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:08:18 PM
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MisterLee:
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and his place in HISTORY are at least substantive.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:09:42 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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I watched every minute of every round of Cotto's last fight. In fact, I have watched fights on live and on tape since Ali beat Liston when I ws a child. So don't pull some boxer trainer shit on me. Now so what if Manny can take it as well as give it. So could Ray Leonard. So could Ali. The list is endless. The truth... and this is the truth... is that Miguel Cotto could never really take shots well.... and at welterweight he was never a beast. Against Manny he was rarely in charge of the fight. He was getting caught fast from angles and shots in every round; shots he could not see coming. Manny Pacqiauo, Antonio Margarito took Cotto's punches and walked through them. Watch Round two, three and four vs Margarito. Cotto could not hurt him. Manny, like Pryor and Duran, smiles right through his pain. And then he kicks your ass. Just like he did Cotto's!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:14:59 PM
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MisterLee:
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Fe'roz boma ye! Sheriff is restoring order in this town!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:26:14 PM
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Anony@Fe'Roz:
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Leonard, Ali, Duran and all of the boxers you mention were fighting in their natural weight; you miss the point. And since you know so much about boxing... it really makes me wonder how come you don't find Manny "suspiciously gifted"... Maybe next time we talk about him we need to refer to him as "Super Manny" so I could understand the admiration you and others here have for a guy in such dubious situation he is in right now.... Remember aside of mr. powerful, he is also not willing to test.... so you should ask yourself a BIG why??? but don't worry... like I said earlier, Politics and secrets don't mix well... add up Manny is rich by now and... you get the picture. In a couple of years, while Margarito will be getting drunk chinging' seńoritas in Tijuana... Manny will be in office protecting his credibility... if there is something wrong with him, most likely it will come out. If not I will be eating my words for the rest of my life.... but at least.... I am truth to what I saw last night when I saw the replay for the first time. I saw a 135lbs guy walking through bullets like he don't care.... same as JMM against Floyd Mayweather, uh????? Truth???? I truly can't fantasy about "Super Manny"; sorry, you will never convince me. Remember I am into being an OBJECTIVE fan. If this was Tito or Juanma or even Cotto... I will say to ban them for life and print a LIAR poster in RING magazine. If you have nothing to hide... why hide?????
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 12:53:16 PM
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Donaire P4P:
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I was watching the movie Dahmer on Showtime a while back, and it reminded me of Manny Pacquiao. In the movie, Dahmer's father is susicious of something in a box, which is a human head. His father demands he open the box. Dahmer resists, begs and pleads NOT to open the box and lies about its contents. In the end, he wins the battle and is able to later dispose of the box privately. The lesson? Dahmer had something to hide in that box. If Pacquiao had nothing to hide, he wouldn't refuse to take the test, or, open the box. But in Pacquiao's box you'll find a syringe and a stash of illegal PED's. That's why he won't open the box.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:20:58 PM
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Never tested positive:
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Pacquiao isn't on the juice. He's not! He's never tested positive and that makes him innocent! Oh wait, but Mark McGwire never tested positive. Shane Mosley never tested positive. Evander Holyfield never tested positive. Ken Caminiti never tested positive. Brady Anderson never tested positive. Lenny Dykstra never tested positive. Lyle Alzado never tested positive. Marion Jones never tested positive. Roger Clemens never tested positive. Vinny Pazienza never tested positive. Andrew Golota never tested positive. Tommy Morrison never tested positive. Jose Canseco never tested positive.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:29:27 PM
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SALT lover@Never tested positive:
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Two thumbs up! you're 100% spot on!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:37:09 PM
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Corey Haim RIP @ anony:
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Remember Anony, Pacquiao is GOD to most of these people. They literally worship him and lavish him with oozing, flowery praise. Much of it's embarrassing to read. He can do no wrong. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if these grown men (assuming they're grown men) have pictures of him in their wallets, posters of him on their walls, and pro-pacquiao bumper stickers on their cars. It really wouldn't.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:47:28 PM
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Salt Hater:
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Responding to the comment of an idiot will just fire him up. He burns himself acting as a martyr, as he attacks for the causes of intolerance and stupidity. The fire burns his senses and blinds his sight, but he believes that he is the educated one, as he reveals his progress with his juvenile shouts of "finish your GED." He wouldn't know a PhD from a GED if he were visiting the campuses of Yale, Harvard, Princeton or Cambridge. So dark and burning himself into ashes he is! In his mind of loneliness and a rush to fit in, his ability to comprehend is nonexistence and much of his thinking is asinine. So like the ashes blew.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 01:56:56 PM
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Siciliano@Anony:
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Ok so you watched the Cotto fight again and was dumbfounded by how Manny took those stiff Jabs and walked through them,you also compared them to the JMM and Morales fight.. First Manny was a Left handed fighter during those times..and Morales did have Manny's number on their first bout..thats why he ate all those right cross punches.. Next so you are really caught up and convinced yourself that Manny is indeed doped up huh? I think your just a victim of mass hysteria, it's 2010 stop with that lynch mob mentality, guilty till proven innocent BS.. I must admit that your thoughts are valid and even admitted that you will eat your word your whole life if proven that Manny is clean..fair enough.. then the athletic comission should impose that type of blood testing on the fighter..not the fighter dictating the Job that is issued by the commision..Manny is not afraid of any test, he even got his blood taken in live tv.. If floyd really wanted to make the bloodtest then he shouldve made a plea to the boxing authorities who should act on it.. and u will see manny do the test with no fuss..if its necessary in order to get in the ring. Who is Floyd anyway to make such demands based on his bogus baseless accusation?? just one thought that I would like to ask since you give detailed answers..(thats a compliment) ... If Manny is indeed doped up and in a roid program then why on earth is his brother Bobby Pacquiao who is also an aspiring boxer not on the same training regiment as he is?? Is manny keeping the super secret to himself?? if its making Manny supermanny in your words then why dont he be on the same roids?? if I could make millions doing this Ill share it with my brother..we'll be like the Klitshcos!lol.. what are your thoughts on that?? It's easy to say these accusations if you grew up in a place where athletes are MOST likely on PED like in the States..But Philippines is not even on that plateu.. so you're AMAZED leave it at that..
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:09:26 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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@MisterLee. Was I really whining? I feel no woe. More of a sugar rush from all the gushing Pac-love. If I read much more I may sink into a diabetic coma. I need to find a good article about Manny's mistress or a photo of him kicking a dog or something even if it's photoshopped. Okay. Okay. I'll get out of the way and let the Mannylovers give sweet PED-free loliPac his daily tongue bath.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:12:45 PM
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Bobby C for PREZ!:
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Bobby C for Prez after that comment!!! "I'll get out of the way and let the Mannylovers give sweet PED-free loliPac his daily tongue bath." That is pure poetry, deserving of a Pulitzer Prize! What you wrote is what ALL the OBJECTIVE readers have been thinking Sir!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:19:00 PM
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Siciliano:
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I understand if you guys have a shred of evidence that supports your accusations but you guys dont. Dont have a good point, dont have anything but just plain Hate towards Manny's success.. that's sad on your part. You guys are probably just stuck and frustrated cause the fight didnt push through..Honestly I myself wish that Manny just take the test to shut all you up, but he didnt , But as the Champ's right to do what he wishes his body to go through, I wouldnt turn around and start accusing him that he's on something , doped up , juiced up , pacroid PED this that like a sissy lil girl.. I honestly think that the negotiations failed because arum let his badd blood between him and Floyd get in the way..and also the comission shouldve stepped up to make the fight negotiations push through.. not some judge! But it's INNOCENT till proven guilty.. ITS 2010 .. do you guys actually hear yourselves ..would you feel good if somebody accused you of cheating when you know that you worked hard to get where you are?? sad sad sad
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:30:41 PM
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Frank Z:
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what's been good Misterlee. but yeah this entire drug issue is very difficult to bring any closure to because on the one hand you wil have people arguing people like mcgwuire did not test +, or clemens, or barry bonds even, on the other hand there is 0 hard evidence, not even witnesses, to link manny to anything illegal. baseless accusations are tough to prove wrong definitively cause the people can say whatever. but i do want to point out that BECAUSE it's mayweather making these allegations that people are turning on him the hardest. remember paulie m. was the one most blatant about it and the manny camp as far as i know is still friendly with him. it's all part of the game of power posturing between two of the most well known boxers today. BUT, we cannot ignore the questions it raises. to peopel who don't follow pacquiao closely, and to pacquiao nut huggers whose response to any question regarding boxing is "manny's the GOAT", manny needs to take these drug tests. if he is found innocent, which i believe he will be, then all is good, boxing will look better in the mainstream, and the people who worship the toilets he sh*ts in will have more reason to do so. what's there to lose? sure he said that he lost to morales becasue of blood weakening, but was it that or was it the blood from the cut in the fight getting into his eyes and freaking him out? if he really has improved so much as a boxer as people say, then he won't have as much of an issue with it. hasn't this been shown to not have a real physical effect on olympic athletes? i'm really asking that. manny will have to fast before he does it, but how's that different than what most boxers do to cut weight anyway?
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 02:48:34 PM
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RIVERSIDE:
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I Agree Frank, the theory of work ethics and good nutrition is slap on face to other boxers. His surge overnight is power and resistence warrants suspicion. Manny needs to comply to blood test for his sake and more power to him if clean.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 03:03:45 PM
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Siciliano @ Frank Z:
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totally agree , Manny should just take it... And I positively believe that Manny will take the test.. The Boxing Commisions should do their job on imposing the test for Mega bouts such as this one.. And arum shouldnt let his bad temper affect the negotiation table.. This fight will happen down the road and theres no doubt about that.. till then there should be no blatant accusations and name callings towards the Man that ressurected boxing and made it a mainstream sport again.. I've been following Boxing since.. I wasnt around the Hearns era , the Ali era, Leonard, I grew up when it was tyson...and I am thankful enough to be alive when Manny came around and resurrected Boxing back.. sure ODLH and Shane did they part but not like Manny did..I never seen this sport peak the way it did like the way it is right now.. so forget the gayfeathers and the Pacroids and quit with all the prjudice and recist remarks... Keep it boxing...it aint Weekly magazine!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 03:15:20 PM
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Joe:
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So what if manny pacquiao's on steroids. The point being missed is that STEROIDS DO NOT HELP. This is well documented. In fact, they actually HURT! So steroids have hurt Manny more than they've helped. Remember Shane Mosley on steroids? He fought a terrible fight against De La Hoya while juiced. What about Fernando Vargas? When he was on the juice, he turned in a disgraceful performance against a shot De La Hoya. They sure didn't help him. James Toney? He hasn't looked good since Jirov, so they haven't helped him a smidgen. Roy Jones? When he was on steroids for the Richard Hall fight, he looked flat and turned in one of his worst perofrmances in years against a journeyman. Even mark McGwire has stated in all his interviews that STEROIDS DID NOT HELP HIM. Steroids are a part of boxing, and they have been for years. The point that everyone is missing is that steroids don't help! Manny should just come out and say, sure, I use them, and then cite these examples. I mean, what the heck, Floyd can juice if he wants. So can Clottey. These guys will find they do not help. So who cares if Manny chooses to use steroids for personal reasons, whatever, they do NOT help!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 03:35:09 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Come back to me when you have evidence. Until then, suck it up. sometimes our favorite fighters get beat. This is the hurt business. they get hurt; we as fans get hurt. but your suspicions are nothing but that suspicions. Thomas Hauser laid this out most methodically in an article month ago titled "Mayweather-Pacquiao, PEDs, and Boxing " . If you haven't read it, do yourself a favor and do so. As to accusations of past feats, here's my TSS Challenge: Please put forward any evidence you have confirming your favorite fighter's (of the past or present) being absolutely clean in every one of their past fights. Evidence and facts only. I'm listening !!!!!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:11:41 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Come back to me when you have evidence. Until then, suck it up. Sometimes our favorite fighters get beat. This is the hurt business. They get hurt; we as fans get hurt. But your suspicions are nothing but that. Suspicions. Thomas Hauser laid this out most methodically in an article month ago titled "Mayweather-Pacquiao, PEDs, and Boxing " . If you haven't read it, do yourself a favor and do so. As to accusations of past feats, here's my TSS Challenge: Please put forward any and all evidence you have confirming your favorite fighter's (of the past or present) being Absolutely Clean in every one of their past fights. Evidence and facts only. I'm listening !!!!!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:21:33 PM
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SALT lover:
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100% agree with "Corey Haim RIP". It's like I've been sayin' all along: Pacquiao's FANATISM is so high these days, it's a cult. The cult of Pacquiao will never admit he does anything wrong. I wouldn't be surprise they won't believe he's usin' steroids even if they present the clear evidence. IF it was Floyd refusin' to be tested, I would be attackin' and questionin' him and startin' to retreat from his side. I love boxin' MUCH MORE than I love him as a boxer.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:22:51 PM
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The Saint:
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@SALT lover: Here's one way to find out how Pacquiao fans would react to "clear evidence" of PED usage: PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE. LOL
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:26:43 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Or meet my challenge. I'm all ears. Waiting.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:32:28 PM
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SALT lover@The Saint:
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He laughs and then the one eho didn't understood was him.......................Dude, when I wrote about the clear evidence, I meant it in the event when they provide the evidence: testin' positive, blown whitsle, Roach admittin' etc. still, you people are not gonna admit it. That's what I meant about it. Damn, couldn't even understand that?
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:33:25 PM
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Manny Pacquiao* Barry Bonds* Marion Jones*:
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There's no evidence that Pacquiao is on steroids?? Really?? How about the fact that he refused to take the ONLY drug test that can't be beaten. That is DAMNING evidence. Oh sure, he didn't mind taking the test that he's been beating all these years, but the foolproof test, nah, he didn't want to do THAT test. Hmmmm....I wonder why?? Pacquiao's refusal is more damning than mark McWire's pitiful perofrmance before Congress.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:35:58 PM
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The Saint:
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@SALT lover: And what I'm saying is there's one way for you to find out if you're right.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:36:00 PM
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The Saint:
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@SALT lover: You're beating a dead horse. We don't live in a communist country (although the current administration is quickly changing that, thanks but no thanks to the votes of ignorant racist votes based on color). Pacquiao doesn't have to prove his innocence.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:37:59 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Meet the Challenge. Put up evidence and facts to prove that your favorite fighter of the past or present is and/or was ABSOLUTELY CLEAN now and/or during their career. Just the Facts.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:39:56 PM
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Cigar @ The Satan:
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Please leave your Obama hatred and racism at home. Fact: Pacquiao would have taken the test if he had nothing to hide. He would have eagerly volunteered to do it. Moreover, he could have really undermined Floyd and subjected himself to the only reliable testing for the Clottey fight. He didn't. Why? because he's dirty. And he has something to hide.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:48:01 PM
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Siciliano:
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Provide evidence?? how when there was never an Olympic style bloodtesting in PRO boxing .. this demand only came out today.. If thats the arguement then we should say hey Maybe every fighter could be on steroids, maybe they should go on a lie detector test instead because its going to be too much fuss to do Olympic style drug test... and you guys would only keep saying that he's hiding something.. I think this'll never stop .. you know theres no record or evidence of even the famous Ali is clean or Tyson is clean.. But you dont see anyone accusing him of that right... That's because nobody ever made that excuse or demand just to get in the ring... hmmmm
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:51:32 PM
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need no proof:
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works both ways suckas, what proof do you have that he is not on P.E.D. HOLLA BACK!! must be ignorant fo so. if believe he is not on P.E.D. LOL .... guilty until proven innocent
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 04:59:28 PM
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Chuck:
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I sat on a jury last year. The defendant was accused a heinous sexual assault. We all waited expectantly for him to testify. He did not. He didn't want to incriminate himself. Pacquiao is absolutely afforded the right not to incriminate himself. That is his right people! If he had fought Floyd, (1) he'd have had to go off the juice and show up like Margarito without plaster and get KO'd or (2) keep juicing and take the test and hope it doesn't get out. Those were his choices so who can blame him from steadfastly refusing to be tested.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:02:47 PM
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The Saint:
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@Chuck: Keep dreaming. If that helps you sleep better at night, good for you. Pacquiao has nothing to defend himself against besides accusations. Seriously, I have no doubt that you or 99% of Mayweather's minions have a criminal record. It's funny how you twist the very same law that protects criminals like yourself to implicate another person simply because he exposed Mayweather as a fraud. This is just a sport. Cheer up.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:18:11 PM
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The Saint:
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I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, Mayweather fans are the lowest of all human beings. What a shame that Christ had to die for them, too.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:19:33 PM
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The Saint:
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@Cigar: Obama is the most incompetent president in the history of the world, not just htis country. Equality=everybody being in a welfare state. I don't want handouts. I earn my money. Bob Arum made it clear, if Mayweather was sincere about the drug testing and cleaning up the sport, he would've brought it up to the NSAC. At any rate, Mayweather's going to burn in court. BREAKING NEWS: Mayweather's testimony on the night of the shootings have been proven to be contradictory to all the other witnesses that night. He's going to burn, alright!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:22:29 PM
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Salt Hater:
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Communism is in the parameter of Salt Lover's head. He constantly hate on Pacquiao with any piece of s*** that comes up. The reality of Pacquiao is stronger than the ficion and myths about him and Asians, and Salt lover hater just cannot handle it. He believes that there are Martians in Area 54 and they are on steriods and PEDs from the Philippines, and that Pacquiao and Freddie Roach dealt them that mythical A-Side Meth. Somebody is scared as a b****. Pacquiao is going to put a player beating on Clottey. He would put a pimp beating on punked-up Mayweather.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:38:23 PM
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Radam G :
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I think haters may just be on th crackpot. surfing "Loony Verse" they where probably trying to find WMD in Iraq back in the day. Haters are showing signs of beign punch drunk. WOW!! Big George told me the other day that those of us with the means,ya know, what Joe Fraizer called 'Love", should be given up at least 10% of it as it's divine.Well call me divine. My 10% is in the jackpot not the crackpot. Which is where most of the haters reside in this whacked out looneyverse. Holla!!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 05:39:04 PM
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From Gaylord Texan Hotel, Grapevine, Texas:
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The pachaters are probably so dumb that they think the Philippines is in Area 54. This site has become dumb down with those steriods and PEDs allegations from Mayweather nuthuggers against Pacquiao. Them type of hounds don't bark in the big heart of Texas. Steroids and PEDs are the excuses of a coward who doesn't want his a$$ whooped so badly that he howl and break a shiny full moon on lovers' most romantic night to score. Damn hater and talebearer.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 06:17:05 PM
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SAINT:
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I've said it before and i'll keep saying it, Mayweather fans are the lowest of all human beigns. What a shame ALLAH had to die for them, too.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 06:29:52 PM
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antonio12 :
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So far what we have are Two Mayweathers, Roger and Floyd Sr, accusing another fighter of an ethical and legal violation. Neither of the two accusers are credible given their backgrounds and lack of evidence. The third accuser, Floyd Jr, is inches away from being charged with lying to the police and a Grand Jury in a case of attempted murder. Now who's calling who whaaaaaaa't?
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 06:30:49 PM
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So shocked:
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Damn! ALLAH died for Mayweather fans? This site is becoming dumb and dumber, since this latest hatred of Asians. In one post, Allah, the Arabic word meaning God, is a moon god, Now he died for the Mayweather fans. What bunch of crap!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 08:51:41 PM
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Frank Z:
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Hey folks, if you can't discuss two different types of people, and two different types of fighters, and any sort of topic of controversy such as this PED accusation scandal without calling each other BS names and implying racism, get the hell out and rant on some other chat forum, or step your game up and say something worth saying "hmmmm" about.
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 11:19:51 PM
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Isaiah:
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I'm pretty sure the Saint mentioned Christ, Jesus Christ, Yeshua. HE was the one who died for our sins, the son of the one and only living GOD, YHWH. There were 500 total winesses to the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus. That is not Allah, your fake @$$ MOON god. This is NOT the same thing. All the signs of his return are mostly completed down to the T. His return is imment and I hope you are not going to be one of those that fall for the Antichrist. I wonder how much you will running your mouth when you stand before Jesus. Normally, I don't say everything I want to say, but I will not stand by while Jesus name is being spewed at with extreme blashphemy!
Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 11:30:49 PM
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CheatersBeware:
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Look at Manny's head! Why is his head bigger then Hatton's,Delahoya's an Cotto's? Your head don't get bigger the older you get.If his head has been the same size when he fought at the smaller weights he would have looked like a freak! A pumpkin sitting on top a toothpick. Look at his hands. They are bigger. All signs of PED users!!
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 12:18:29 AM
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EM:
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Guys, I allow great leeway in the comments section, but can we stick to boxing, rather than delving into the religous material? Thanks
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 12:27:35 AM
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MisterLee:
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I love getting responses from nuts! The guy only exists in reaction to others of a great nature (saltlover, myself etc.). He makes no points or opinions of his own. Naming me ivy league colleges won't make you smart or sound impressive fo' sho! Ya don't know a speed bag from a heavy bag, ur just some incoherent fool fo's ho! aiiiight... pc out!
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 05:54:12 AM
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Anony @ Fe'Roz:
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"NEED NO PROOF" posted "what proof do you have that he is not on P.E.D.???????"..... and I can't say it better. Check this out - You have to agree that when there is a law violation (crime or robbery) sometimes investigators don't have any clues or evidence at all... so they start looking for it where??? From suspicion... from listening to details... from interviewing people.... etc. I guess we can agree to that, right???? Soooooo..... if Pacquiao is the first "super boxer" who earns 7 different divisions in the history of boxing..... and then you come to know that he is not willing to test randomly..... and then you read that he brought up excuses that needles affects his performance.... and then you come to know that he is willing to loose millions dropping the Mayweather fight and fighting a lesser fighter (money wise)..... and then you read two days ago that he is still crazy about fighting Mayweather but still he may not comply to the stupid 40 million dollars test...... OH WELL...... it gets frustating...... because he just need to put a 1mm needle in his blood torrent to shut up mayweather and the critics like me.... BUT DOES HE REALLY WANT TO SHUT US???? I have a feeling Pacquiao will retire soon.... the pressure will rise if he keeps boxing and I don't think he is willing to test EVER. Why hide from that needle????????? behind that blood test is his credibility. Fe'roz... you like to talk about credibility....Well let me ask you.... and be truthfuly and sincere to yourself only..... if you were in Pacquiao's position... will you test for a mega fight??? Maybe the biggest draw ever in tickets and PPV???? the one that could glorify you as the greatest boxer ever???? Do you know of anybody than Manny Pacquiao that would say no???? one person you know....?????? See... it is more complicated than just accepting Manny's word for it. Sorry but I can't be that NAIVE and then desperate to protect Manny. Or.... "Super Manny".....
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 09:15:04 AM
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The Saint:
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@Anony: You say Pacquiao is hiding FROM the needle. I say that Mayweather is hiding BEHIND the needle.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 09:31:01 AM
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The Saint:
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@Anony:NEWSFLASH: Pacquiao's legacy is already sealed, he doesn't need to be dictated by Mayweather. You keep talking about "for $40million why won't Pacquiao just do it" as though Pacquiao is THAT desperate for money. And since $40 million IS $40 million, why doesn't Mayweather just dump the blood testing idea since Pacquiao is supposed to be an easy fight for him, anyway? And why the heck am I still responding to a Mayweather fan, who just like Mayweather, is probably a felon? LOL.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 09:35:12 AM
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The Saint:
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@EM: There are a lot worst things that are being said in these forums, thigns that are deliberately designed to insult and offend. Surely you can "tolerate" a little bit of religious "nonsense," right?
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 10:07:07 AM
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@CHEATER BEWARE:
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Good point, Head is huge just like bonds,HUH!!!, MANN'Y'S NEW NICKNAME IS SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS, I've gain 30 lbs since high school, my head did not grow, spongebob squarepants, spongebob squarepants. L.O.L
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 11:16:50 AM
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How about boxing?:
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What is the deal with religion here? I'll quote Ferdie Pacheco, who when interviewing Holyfield after he beat Tyson in 1996 rambled on and on about God, and his God being the only God. Ferdie: "Hopefully God is there, for ALL of us, now enough about religion, let's get off of that and onto boxing, how did you manage to fight such a brilliant fight?" I'm sure there are religious sites out there for you to state your convictions, and I'm sure you'll be welcome there. The Editor asked that the subject be moved to boxing, so move the discourse to boxing. Sadly, it seems like race and religion are taking over TSS.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 11:20:42 AM
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@ @CHEATERBEWARE:
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The one point to keep in mind is that Pacquiao's steroid use has not helped him at all, and in fact it likely has hurt him. No evidence exists that steroids help a boxer, and therefore Pacquiao is still great despite his being dirty. Remember Vargas against De La Hoya? Fernando was awful against a ring-worn Oscar. It wasn't pretty.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 11:24:17 AM
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The Saint:
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@@CHEATER BEWARE: Regarding Pacquiao's head size, he has ALWAYS had a big cranium. He's out of proportion, always has been. The main difference now is that his cheeks are no longer sunken in because he's not draining himself to make 125-130 anymore. If you can recall, on the night of the De La Hoya-Pacquiao bout, HBO did a comparison between Pacquiao as a featherweight and as a welterweight, I think it was even a side by side, and there was no dramatic difference.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 11:40:57 AM
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@the Saint:
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Saint, seriously not to offend you, you cant hide the facts, can you imagine cheeks or no cheeks that head on a 106 lbs person, the head size should not increase, what is Bonds excuse his lips shrunk, hopefully he is not on p.e.d's
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 11:59:31 AM
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The Saint:
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@@the Saint:: Therein lies your problem. Pacquiao is NOT a 106lb fighter, he hasn't been for ages. This isn't Chiquita Gonzalez or Michael Carbajal. Even Mayweather admits to being as light as Pacquiao was when he was 16. The biggest jump Pacquiao made was from 135 to 147, and when he fought De La Hoya, Pacquiao weighed in at 142, which is only a 7-lb increase from 135 and just a 12-lb jump from 130. Nothing remarkable about the weight increase.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 12:18:27 PM
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LQB:
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Damn! Talking about Pacquiao's head! What about Mayweather Jr's big old long head. What is he on? More than soul food I bet. His head looks like a big old ancient dinosaur's egg. I think that he got it from B-Side Meth. It gives him the power to run his lips and shoot s*** out of them.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 01:07:32 PM
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The Saint:
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@Smiley C: Don't worry. The actual END of the world is always AT LEAST 7 years away.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 01:49:58 PM
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CHEATERBEWARE@ THE SAINT:
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your completely right, everything you post is right, your not wrong in any way or form you are perfect human beign with no defect in thinking writing or any form, hope these words make you fell better, may god bless you. peace
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 02:28:19 PM
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Jocsy:
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Well maybe the The Saint and The Saints will go marching home to their end(s). But my a$$ is staying for at least 70 more years. I won't even be a hundred years old. Jesus coming in seven years, riding on a cloud is a mythical metaphor. I hope that the impostor who claims to be him is struck by a thunderbolt and fall through the cloud and beat his head, but let's stay on boxing. LQB is right. Mayweather has a very big, long head with a big forehead and a big mouth. He is a big target for a beating. Maybe Shane Mosley will get him, but I doubt it. Pacquiao will be the one to shut up Floyd Mayweather.
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 02:38:07 PM
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The Saint:
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@CHEATERBEWARE: I'm not always right, but I'm right about this one. Thanks!
Thursday Mar 11, 2010 02:42:37 PM
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CheatersBeware:
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Manny's head can't be the same when he was at 106.if it was he would look like some freak.that is the sign of a PED user.How do you explain his head getting bigger? Manny has lost a lot of blood in fights. If he gets cut is he going to quit because he's losing blood? Only a weak minded person would make a ridiculous comment like that,he gets weak when blood is drained.All those PED users never tested positive so what makes Manny any different. He needs to come clean. He has told to many lies
Friday Mar 12, 2010 12:57:07 AM
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:
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I tell you one thing,its gonna be a good fight on Sat,
Friday Mar 12, 2010 04:06:05 AM
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The Saint:
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@CheatersBeware: As Mayweather has recently proven regarding the shooting incident for which he will go to jail, lies can't last too long. If Manny's on something, someone, somewhere will snitch and something will turn up.
Friday Mar 12, 2010 05:39:04 PM
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You Have To Take The Test To Be Called The Best
"People can say whatever they like about Floyd Mayweather Jr....and they will....but they can never say the man challenges himself to be the best." ---TSS All-Star reader El Feroz weighs in on who he thinks is at blame for the Manny-Money negotiation flameout
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