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Wednesday Feb 10, 2010


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Hopkins vs Jones ll: Just How Stupid Do They Think We Are?

By Frank Lotierzo


Part of the business of boxing is to try to sell dog food by telling us that it's filet mignon.  They'll add that it's especially good because it's had the chance to age for so many years.  Golden Boy Promotions, with a little assist from Square Ring, is about to try to feed you something totally inedible while promising it'll be a feast.  Not since fat middle aged Mike Tyson roughhoused with an elaborately headgeared semi-retired journeyman named Corey Sanders have boxing fans been asked to pay so much for anything this ridiculous.  P.T. Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute, and he was right.  But even P.T. Barnum wouldn't have tried to get away with this one.  


In May of 1993, Bernard Hopkins, then 22-1, fought Roy Jones, at the time 21-0, for the vacant IBF middleweight title.  Going in, the fight was considered to be an interesting matchup, but nothing close to one of PPV proportions.  Most knowledgeable boxing people thought that Jones, coming into his prime, would probably win it fairly easily. His style was all wrong for Bernard Hopkins, he was thought to be the more talented of the two, he was the bigger puncher, and HBO was behind him in a major way.


The fight played out without any drama, Jones winning a clear-cut decision in a decent, but by no means spectacular fight.  


And now Hopkins and Jones want to try it again, seventeen years later. They're calling the promotion "The Rivals: Hopkins vs Jones ll."


This nonsense is a rivalry?  I don't think so.  In boxing, a rivalry consists of a series of exciting, closely contested fights between near-equals.  Hopkins and Jones staged one fight that was devoid of tension, with no knockdowns, no moments where the outcome was in doubt, and that came to an unambiguous conclusion.  At the time, nobody was clambering for a rematch.  Want a rivalry?  Pay to watch Vazquez-Marquez lV.  


Still, had Hopkins and Jones decided to do this ten years ago, I'd have endorsed it wholeheartedly. By 2000, you could have made the argument that they were the two best fighters in the game, and they deserved the big payday that a PPV fight would have brought them.  I'd have still picked Jones by another clear-cut decision in another decent, but by no means spectacular fight, but I'd have paid to watch it.


Unfortunately, during the early to mid 2000's,  they played pattycake over money, with Jones making Hopkins jump through hoops. In the end, Jones got too cute, and things fell through.


And then, starting about six years ago, Jones imploded.  He got knocked out cold, got knocked out cold again, and started making a habit of losing.  And he started making excuses for his defeats.  


Meanwhile, Hopkins had solidly enhanced his reputation, going through a brief bad spell by first losing his title and then failing to regain it from Jermain Taylor, but suddenly hitting a post-forty hot streak that significantly enhanced his historical standing.


At this point, he started looking for where he could make the most money while incurring the least risk. Which, as it turned out, was exactly what Roy Jones had started doing, although from a weaker power position.


So the two old timers wound up back at the bargaining table, but this time the shoe was on the other foot in terms of who held the upper negotiating hand.  They did manage to work things out, and it looked like the fight would be made.  


Both guys took tuneups, but Jones didn't do his homework and was once again knocked out, this time in the first round.  He should have looked at the YouTube footage of Danny Green sparring with James Toney a little more carefully.


At that point, the fight should have been dead.  But it wasn't.  Both guys have twisted themselves into pretzels trying to explain why the rematch still matters.  But it doesn't matter, and you can't parse it any way that makes it worth our fifty bucks.  


The only reason anyone would have for buying this fight would either be to see the final destruction of Roy Jones or because they think that, styles making fights, Roy's still all wrong for Bernard and can slip and slide and potshot his way to a decision.  


The first scenario isn't going to happen. Bernard Hopkins isn't that kind of fighter. Jones is shot: his chin is gone, his legs are gone, his balls are gone, but Hopkins won't come roaring out of his corner to take Roy's head off. If he wins, he wins over the long, dull haul.  


The second proposition, Jones using the ring to get a decision, is actually possible. Hopkins is forty-five. He's got to pace himself. His workrate isn't anything to brag about. If he loses, a lot of his reputation will unfairly be lost as well. But is it worth paying fifty dollars just to see that happen in a lousy fight? Gouge me for $19.95 and I might think about it.


"As a fan, I am excited that the fight is finally happening and that we don't have to wait any longer to see this great rivalry continue," said Oscar de la Hoya, President of Golden Boy Promotions.  If Oscar had waited much longer, he could have signed the fighters' grandchildren to appear on the undercard. I wouldn't be willing to pay fifty bucks for that either.


Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com 

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donputo69:  Exactly...10 years ago this fight would of made alot of sense...2010?...NO SENSE...holla back!!!
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 11:11:21 AM
coxscorner@gmail.com:  I have to agree. Jones is completely shot as a fighter and Hopkins is over the hill. The fight proves nothing really. I certainly wont pay 50 bucks to watch it. 20 dollars maybe out of morbid curiosity but not 50, no way.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 11:45:05 AM
Robert Curtis:  The only way this could be a fight is if Roy Jones Jr. actually learned how to box for once in his life. Roy never used the fundamentals and broke every rule because his freakishly superior speed and coordination. I can't even say that RJJ had skills. They were more like death-defying stunts that would get most boxers killed if they tried them. RJJ was Houdini when youth was on his side. Now that he's old and slow, RJJ's a sitting duck and anybody will knock him out. Bernard could be 80 and beat him because Bernard has real technique and skills. RJJ should have retired after the Ruiz fight. He'd have gone down in history as the most gifted boxer of all time. But right now he's just soiling his own legacy.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 11:52:30 AM
mortcola@@F-Lo:  Hey, Frank! I already wrote this article in my last two posts, more or less, in reply to the Talking Smack piece. But good call, on scenario two. Remember, too, Roy's shot legs bring him down to the level of an ordinary contender, movement wise. He still throws accurately, with good speed, and can defend himself against anyone other than a speedy Calzaghe or a volume punching bull like Green. Hopkins won't give him the same problems, so this is a close fight I see Jones winning by decision.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 12:19:46 PM
mortcola@Robert Curtis:  Glad to hear someone else make the argument I've made about RJJ - the "death defying stunts" line is perfect. But he's not that much of a sitting duck, because its not as if its all gone. Its just that Hopkins won't take advantage of RJJ's vulnerabilities, unless he fights more aggressively than he's accustomed to doing...and Roy still has quickness and pop. As pointless as this fight is in most ways, there's an element of interest here having to do with whether Hopkins is underestimating RJJ - as we all may be - and what happens to the strange legacy of these two guys if RJJ yet again makes Hopkins pay for his low punch output.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 12:31:21 PM
Milana Dravnel:  Oscar is a big hypocrite. Just weeks ago he said that Roy should retire, he can get messed up up, he is totally shot and its very sad to see him continue.. now this 2faced liar is saying he cant wait to see this. what a loser!
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 12:34:35 PM
Jason:  They think we're all stupid. Beyond stupid. As the author points out, when Jones and Hopkins first met in May of 1993, not only was the fight nothing close to one of PPV proportions, but it wasn't even enough to headline a regular HBO card. That's why they fought on the UNDERCARD of Bowe-Ferguson on regular HBO (not PPV). Incredible. Digest that for a moment or two. They fought on the undercard of a ho-hum HBO Saturday night show. But boxing's fan-base suffers from acute memory loss. After Jones lost to Tarver the 3rd time, he openly acknowledged that he merely wanted to survive, to not get knocked out, to finish his career on his feet and not unconscious on the canvas after the Johnson KO. He deemed finishing on his feet a victory. It's so frustrating. We all know the rest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think that Jones is the answer to this trivia question: Name the one man in boxing history that headlined a PPV card after having been KO'd in the 1st round of his last fight?
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 12:36:15 PM
mortcola@Jason:  Jason, you're right, except you're treating this like its a meaningful mainstream fight. Its actually a private drama between two old-timers, one a freak of conditioning and genes, and the other a has-been with great-though-tarnished celebrity status and the ability to turn on the flash just a little. Its more drama than athletics. Except, with Jones a very live underdog, it actually puts Hopkins' legacy at risk. They may think we're stupid, but I have my own reasons to be interested in this fight. Doesn't mean I'm not stupid, though.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 02:10:09 PM
Jason:  I hear you mortcola, and I've read your stuff, and you're certainly not stupid. Me? I'd rather watch rigor mortis set in than watch this fight. But perhaps I'd watch it on regular HBO if they presented it as a stay-busy fight for Hopkins against a name while he readies himself for Chad Dawson. If he wins, great, he was supposed to, and it's on to Dawson. It would be like De La Hoya-Forbes, essentially. Jones just doesn't matter anymore. I feel like any obligation to him has run its course. He's an opponent. Period. Moreover, when is the last time that Hopkins has been in an entertaining fight? Echols a decade ago?? Jones is at least a little more fun to watch these days because at least you get a skirmish. Who knows. Maybe I'm just being too hard. Maybe this will be like Ali-Frazier 3, where they produced something great because each had lost a couple of steps. Maybe Hopkins grows old that night. I doubt it, but anything's possible. This has been the era of the dead-end catch-weight PPV fight. Maybe this will be the closing bookend. (As an aside, you're right, Hopkins is jeopardizing a lot, although I think Jones is so shot that he has no chance. He's too chinny and can't hurt Hopkins. But maybe, just maybe, Jones avoids Hopkins' 11 punches per round and dances his way to a decision. But the Hopkins legacy gets salmonella if he loses to this version of Jones, no doubt).
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 02:33:24 PM
mortcola@Jason:  Who's this Rigor guy fought? I looked him up on Youtube, but there's nothing there. I hear you about no more obligation to Jones. Irks me when an ego is so far out of sync with reality. But I'll give him this last shot at a little redemption. If he dogs it, he can f--- himself. And I really think Hopkins will never get in the ring with Dawson, though that would be a justice fight. Bernard wants his championship to be considered legit, he can't avoid the young lions. The Jones fight is its own thing - if he wins, it doesn't really count.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 03:31:40 PM
brownsugar:  Jones has no legs,. no confidence,.. no chin,..(and little reason to keep fighting).. all he has are hands that are still somewhat fast and rep for being on the losing end of mismatches,.. BHop should have an no problem getting the easy win,.. because his legs still work,.. this fight doesn't elevate Bhop,..I'm surprised he's not embarrassed for advertising this sideshow....(where's the Bhop/Dawson fight ??..) Support from GBP is even more ridiculous than the fight itself,.. they're starting to look like a lawless disorganized bunch who that can't even reign in their own rogue maverick executives..especially when they make the type of decisions that appear to have been inspired by a bowl of Hydro,....but boxing has survived worse,.. (Chavez Jr),.. so this too will pass...
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 04:21:47 PM
El Maromero:  I wouldn't mind watching this fight, because both of these guys are hall of famers but it's not cool that they are charging 50 dollars. I wonder if they are going to make more money on a ppv telecast that hardly anyone is going to buy than if they fought on HBO and mostly every boxing fan would see? I wouldnt spend 50 dollars even if I was rich, I'd rather spend it at a titty bar
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 04:22:41 PM
Frank Z:  i was never with the idea of soiling yhour legacy by continuing after you are past it. the fact of the matter is roy was one of the most gifted boxers ever in his prime, and nothing going to take that away. the fact is any boxer who gets to 40 would likely have lost a lot of ability, just that we're not there to actually witness it. roy's past is solidified. that being said, you'd probably have to pay me 50 bucks for me to even consider watching this one. even then i'd feel queasy cause i' d be wasting time andn both parties are talking to us like we're stupid. i've also lost some respect for b-hop because although he's earned the right to do whatever he wants, i don't appreciate him tryign to sell me, not dog food, dog dong, as filet mignon. damnit behop fight chad dawson, fight tavoris cloud. if you can ruin another young boxer's career, you can only enhance your legacy, then you might really warrant comparison with archie moore.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 05:04:06 PM
The Saint:  Sham or no sham, this is an intriguing match up. I won't pay for this fight, I'll just try to catch it on YouTube before it gets removed due to a copyright violation lol. This fight is "meaningless," but then again, in the grand scheme of things, all sports are meaningless. They are there for our entertainment, and in a morbid kind of way, Jones-Hopkins 2 will be a lot more entertaining than their first fight. Jones can't run anymore and Hopkins has gotten any better. I can't stand Jones because he's a worldclass ducker ala Mayweather Jr., but at the same time I don't appreciate Hopkins taking advantage of Jones at this stage of Jones' career and I would genuinely feel bad for Jones should he lose in a bad way. Hopkins is one of my favorite fighters but if he loses to Jones, I admit that I will get some satisfaction out of it.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 05:13:26 PM
Big M:  You people are silly. Lenox Lewis and a number of other Champions throughout the history of boxing got knocked out numerous times and continued to have illustrious careers. It comes with the territory. Just like if you are always on the line of fire in a war, eventually you catch a bullet or more. Jones has had a great career and supplied action that none of us will probably ever see again in our lifetime. He's not perfect, but he's game and no one should ever underestimate such a talented fighter. It's easy for Jones-Haters to criticize him, but could most come close to his accomplishments and still be as fast and talented at age 40, I think not!
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 06:59:54 PM
Ian Roman:  F-Lo you don't need to pay to watch, just be resourceful.. Peace.. This fight should be in the undercard of PBF-Mosley..
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 08:29:25 PM
Real Talk:  I'm still going to watch this fight, just don't know where yet. If nobody orders it I might Lol. Call it what you want, I want to see the Space Cowboys duke it out. Dueces
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 08:37:05 PM
brownsugar:  spoken like a true fight fan Real Talk,.. that's why I turned my cable off till May,.. dispite my caustic words,.. if I had left my cable on,.. I'd probably by watching it too... be sure to give the TSS your impressions of the "Show"....
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 08:58:31 PM
ali:  Sugar Ray vs The Hit Man rematch didn't happen for a long time but when they did fight it was a very good fight. So Yeah im going to order it cuz I would hate to miss something great by two legendary fighters. I think alot yall are going to find a way to see the fight yall love boxing to much miss it.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 09:22:20 PM
mortcola@ali:  I think Hearns is a good comparison in another way. Hearns was another guy who couldn't handle the power of the bigger fighters, fought too long, but still retained enough of his special skills to put on a decent show long after he should have hung 'em up. RJJ should be taking a lesson from Hearns' slurred speech and sullied record and not fight anymore. But since he is, I would say that the Jones of today is no worse than the Hearns who got KO'd by Barkley. And in Hopkins, he's fighting a guy he can avoid being steamrolled by, and can quite possibly decision. Styles, styles, styles.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 09:39:56 PM
Isaiah:  For old times sake, I just might be willing to pay $19.95 for this, but don't push your luck. My money is too hard earned to spend the ridiculous price of $50 dollars. My generosity ends at some point. Sorry gentlemen. I can't add anymore to your retirement fund. Now, put your glasses back on so you can find the exit...
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 12:41:41 AM
Isaiah:  I'm not saying Roy Jones is past his prime, but Evander Holyfield is boycotting this fight. Ha! Just kidding. I think.
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 03:13:06 AM
Joe:  Fight fans will love to watch it just to see if Jones gets KTFO!! But we ain't paying $49.99 to watch it. "60 - 40 will get yo' a.. kicked" (I might have paid the price back then)
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 07:22:01 AM
Jones Holyfield:  Somebody got in the wrong line. When God said "BOYCOTT EVIL," Rev thought that he said "Brains Enter!" The Rev guy has been on a boycott of brains for life and he is doing that evil talk and thinking. Where is school of hard stupid? What hate fo' sure!
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 08:12:48 AM
ali @ mortcola:  I agree with u 100%
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 09:30:28 AM
The Saint:  @ali: The Leonard-Hearns rematch took several years to happen, but the difference was that both fighters weren't completely shot. Past their primes, definitely, but not the shell of themselves the way RJJ is and possibly Hopkins as well. Expect plenty of feinting, posing and clinching and a lot less punching when RJJ and Hopkins finally step into the ring.
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 10:20:23 AM
Matthew:  I don't know of any astute boxing fan (or casual fan, for that matter) that is clamoring for this fight. 10 years ago maybe, but certainly not now. I think Frank is right, it will probably be a dull, 12 round affair. Hopkins should knock Jones out, but doesn't really have the workrate to do it. Jones is beyond shot; at this point he's a complete embarrassment. It's mind-boggling to hear Hopkins completely rationalize Jones getting kayoed in the first round in order to salvage the promotion. My money is too precious to waste on this garbage.
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 04:59:05 PM
tuxtucis:  Someone here wrote RJJ now has no more chin... I think he never had really... Sure he started to loose 35 years old, after a debilitating wieght loss from heavy after Ruiz's fight...but after Tarver we understood why he avoided all great hitters who competed in his categories during his prime (McClellan, Benn, Michalchevski)...
Friday Feb 12, 2010 06:06:55 PM
mortcola@tuxtucis:  You're right, though I don't know if Roy himself knew he didn't have a chin. I've written several times here - the moment Roy got knocked down by Lou Delvalle, the way he crumpled from a decent but not great left cross and got up shaky - back in his prime - I knew Roy was gonna be one of those guys who gets REALLY mortal as soon as his reflexes slow down just a little. He never took a shot well, but it was hard to know that unless you watched carefully the few times he got hit.
Monday Feb 15, 2010 01:13:42 AM
Ken :  Gday Guys. I'd like to put an Australian perspective on this. I am a huge Roy Jones fan and went to see him fight Danny Green in Sydney. As an Australian it was great to see Danny win but as a huge Roy Jones fan I was bitterly disappointed not to see Roy make a fight of it. Through our Australian media we were told that both fighters had agreed to rematch conditions as part of the original contract and I was expecting a rematch. Then we were told Roy isn't interested. We were then told by Danny himself that he offered Hopkins 15 times more than Hopkins got for his last fight to come down to Australia and fight him. Hopkins wont come. Maybe the Jones v Hopkins fight should be billed as the "we're both running from Danny Green consolation fight" Cheers
Wednesday Feb 17, 2010 06:10:09 AM

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