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The Third God of War: Henry Armstrong
By Springs Toledo
“Batten down the hatches…!” ~ Chambers Journal, 1883
Henry Armstrong’s grandmother was a slave in Mississippi. She was owned by his Irish grandfather whose eyes twinkled at the sight of her. Their son grew up and married a woman who was half-Cherokee. Her name was “America.” The couple had fifteen children. The eleventh, Henry, inherited his father’s short stature and his mother’s strength and work ethic.
The family moved to St. Louis when he was still a small child. At sixteen years old, he put on his father’s cap and overalls and walked down to the Missouri-Pacific Railroad and got a job –driving spikes with a sledgehammer like John Henry. One day a fateful gust of wind carried a discarded newspaper to his feet: “KID CHOCOLATE EARNS $75,000 FOR HALF HOUR’S WORK,” the headline declared. He quit the job, ran home, and told his grandmother that he was fixing to be a champion of the world. She looked him up and down and said “you ain’t no Jack Johnson!”
And she was right. The kid with the baggy overalls and a hammer in his hand would become something else, something greater than Jack Johnson.
Henry Armstrong would become a force of nature in the boxing ring. Like those boll weevils that came up and under his family’s crops back on the plantation, he’d come up and under his opponent’s guard and do to ribs what those critters did to crops. Like the Tombigbee River that overran its banks and killed their cattle, he’d flood his opponent. Press row would watch his relentless attack and compared it to a hurricane…
It began as a tempest in a teapot in 1931, when the underfed teenager lost three out of his first four professional fights. Over the next five years he fought seven draws and suffered eight more setbacks, but stronger frames were getting knocked over. Quite suddenly his elements converged with swirling momentum, and the forecast turned severe for anyone in his path. Between January 1937 and October 1940, Armstrong posted 59 wins, 1 heavily disputed loss, 1 heavily disputed draw, and 51 knockouts. In only three years and ten months, Armstrong fought 61 times. That’s exactly how many fights Muhammad Ali had over the length of his career; and they weren’t scale versions of “bums of the month” either –his blows had multiple contenders and seven Hall of Famers spinning sideways in the ring.
Armstrong reached peak intensity the same year that one of the most powerful natural events in recorded history slammed into the east coast of the United States.
The Great Hurricane of 1938 made landfall on September 21st and cut a swath through Long Island, New York, and New England. Only a junior forecaster saw it coming, but his frantic relay was slapped down by his superiors at the U.S. Weather Bureau who wrongly expected the storm system to continue on a seaward path. So there was no notice, no preparation. It hit Long Island at a record speed and changed the landscape of the south coast forever. Over the next three days, the Blue Hills Conservatory in Massachusetts measured peak gusts at 186 mph and 50 foot waves crashed into the Gloucester shoreline. By the time it was over and the statistics were computed, seven hundred people had died, 63,000 were left homeless, and 2 billion trees were uprooted.
“Hurricane Henry” cut another kind of swath –through three weight divisions. His three managers, the famous Al Jolson, film noir actor George Raft, and Eddie Mead, came up with an idea to pilot him toward three crowns. In an era where boxing recognized only eight kings, toppling three of them would be an unparalleled feat …if he could do it.
This is what it would take, they told Henry, to compete with the rampaging Joe Louis in a depressed market. “It sounds pretty good to me,” he replied.
THE WORLD FEATHERWEIGHT TITLE, 29 October 1937 Petey Sarron had been a professional for a dozen years and looked it, wrote Paul Mickelson, “his eyes are cut, his ears are hard and flat, and he’s broken his left hand three times, his right once.” He also happened to be the National Boxing Association featherweight champion, and in his prime at twenty-nine.
Madison Square Garden’s 1937-1938 boxing season opened with Sarron matched up against the twenty-four-year-old Armstrong for recognition as the world featherweight champion. Sarron trained at Pioneer’s gym in Manhattan while Armstrong trained at Stillman’s gym, which may partly explain the 2½ to 1 odds favoring the challenger –that or the fact that he was on a fifteen fight knockout streak. “This talk don’t scare me,” Sarron said, “I’m used to it. I found out in America, Africa, and Europe that nobody can beat me at 126 pounds.” Sarron was confident that Armstrong would fade. He reminded all and sundry that while he himself had gone fifteen rounds fifteen times, the challenger never had. “Armstrong isn’t fighting a punk this time,” he said.
The veteran may have been expected to let youthful joie de vivre sap itself and then take over, but he defied that idea and waded boldly in to meet Armstrong on his own terms. He even managed to outland him with left hooks in the first round. He won the next few as well by inviting Armstrong to open up and then countering him. Armstrong made the mistake of trying too hard against a man who knew too much –he got stars in his eyes, went for a spectacular knockout, and got stars in his eyes. His wound-up shots breezed by the moving target although when they did happen to connect, they hurt. Before long, Sarron’s ribs began rattling like wind chimes under the blustering body attack, and by the fifth round his shutters were blown open. Armstrong mercilessly lashed him in a corner until the bell rang.
A heavy right landed downstairs to begin the sixth and Sarron faced another surge. “Recovering somewhat,” The New York Times reported, “Sarron jumped at Armstrong and traded willingly with him.” His pride only preceded his fall. Armstrong shot a left to the body and then launched an overhand right that crashed on the champion’s jaw. Sarron “slumped to his knees and elbows” as if looking for a storm cellar under the ring, and was counted out.
Petey Sarron fought a total of 151 times. The record indicates that he was stopped only once. Armstrong called the signature shot that did it “the blackout.”
THE WORLD WELTERWEIGHT TITLE, 31 May 1938 Armstrong’s managers intended to take the three world championship belts in an orderly fashion, but Al Weill, manager of the lightweight champion Lou Ambers, asked for a rain check. Welterweight king Barney Ross wasn’t about to give up a payday because of stormy weather.
With a record of 72-3-3, Ross was an established master-boxer who, like Sarron, was never stopped. Born in New York City’s lower East Side, he stood second only to Benny Leonard among the celebrated Jewish champions who reigned from the 1910s through the 1930s and virtually disappeared after that. Barney Ross (nee Barnet David Rasofsky) was the last of the great ones.
As a welterweight, he had not lost since the “Irish Lullaby” Jimmy McLarnin defeated him in 1934 –and Ross beat him before that bout and again after it. By the time he signed to face Armstrong, ennui had settled in because of the lack of challenges. He’d sneak tokes of a Chesterfield in the rubdown room and swig straight vodka at night after training. Not this time. Ross’s best fighting weight was 142 lbs and that was precisely what the scale said at the weigh-in. It was also the contractual limit for this match.
Armstrong was having problems with the scale; simply put, he was no welterweight. In a sport where boxers ritualistically dried out, weighed in on the day of the fight, and then gorged at supper, Henry hurried to the scale with a belly full of water and beer, weighed in at only 133 lbs, and made off for the nearest toilet.
The vast Jewish contingent in New York bet heavily on Ross, who entered the ring as a 7 to 5 favorite. The fistic fraternity was polled and Ross was favored by Jew and Gentile alike, 50-36, to outbox the smaller man.
Every radio in the lower East Side was blaring as Barney Ross glided out of his corner at the opening bell. Working behind a varying jab and boxing at angles, Ross’s eyes were wide open in the early rounds as he strained to measure the bobbing and weaving whirlwind. Armstrong’s body attack was withering –he turned his fist around, crashed it into the champion’s ribs, and mixed it with left hooks and overhand rights. Ross’s strategy was to step inside the eye of the storm –inside the looping shots, and shift Armstrong off balance. The strategy was masterfully executed and Ross can be seen on film pivoting and turning Armstrong, but two problems soon became painfully clear. First, Ross assumed that his superior size would matter. It didn’t. The second was a question of pace. Henry could keep a hellish pace indefinitely. Barney could not. By round seven, the featherweight champion was overpowering the welterweight champion. Ross was still throwing that right uppercut-left hook combination, but he was wavering like a weather vane in November.
It has become a convention among boxing historians to accede that the twenty-eight year old Ross got old in that bout, that he could no longer move as lively as he once did. That claim ignores what the film confirms –Armstrong’s physical strength and pressure wore Ross out, just like it did Sarron. By the end of the tenth round, Barney Ross was in big trouble.
Only his heart and Armstrong’s favor allowed him to finish on his feet. Late in the fight, arguments abounded in both corners. Ross’s chief second had the towel in hand and was ready to throw it in when Ross warned “–don’t do it. I’m not quitting.” The referee came over and Barney had to make a promise to alleviate the official’s conscience. “Let me finish like a champion,” he said, “and I promise I’ll never fight again.” In the other corner Armstrong wanted to knock him out. “I don’t want to crucify him,” he said, “I don’t want to hurt him no more.”
Armstrong would later claim that his seconds had gotten a signal to carry Barney for the last four rounds, and that the two champions had a conversation during a clinch that went something like this:
Armstrong: “How you feel, Barney?” Ross: “I’m dead.” Armstrong: “Jab and run, and I’ll make it look good.”
As the last bell clanged, Barney embraced Henry. “You’re the greatest,” he said. Close to it… Armstrong emerged from a battle against one of the finest boxers of the Golden Era with nothing more than a bruised knuckle.
THE WORLD LIGHTWEIGHT TITLE, 17 August 1938 New York’s own Lou Ambers was as tough as old boots. Known as the “Herkimer Hurricane,” he was a trainer’s dream, sighed Whitey Bimstein, because the closest thing he had to a vice was going to the movies. Ambers was also a supremely skilled in-fighter whose pride still swelled his chest decades later, “Oh Jesus,” he said in retirement, “I loved to fight.”
Ringside seats for the Ambers-Armstrong title fight at Madison Square Garden cost $16.50, same-day admission was $1.15, and soon eighteen thousand were fidgeting in the seats. A collision of two hurricanes was imminent. Would Armstrong emerge with three simultaneous crowns? The odds said 3 to 1 that he would.
Al Jolson plunked down a grand that said Ambers wouldn’t even see fifteen rounds. But Ambers was ready. “I’ll cut up Henry Armstrong so badly,” he predicted, “the referee will have to stop the fight.” Reporters chewed on their pencils at this. “Don’t worry about me,” he snapped, “wait until we’ve gone 15 rounds and then ask Armstrong how he liked it.”
The two champions were standing toe-to-toe and slugging it out for a full minute by round two as the crowd screamed and hats flew. Ambers clinched effectively inside and landed sneak shots, but it was Armstrong who caught him pulling back in the fifth round with a long right. Ambers tumbled down. The referee counted to three when the bell rang and his corner men rushed out to revive him. In the next round, Armstrong threw combinations that didn’t end. Down went Ambers again.
He took an eight count but nodded to his chief second, who by now had the spit bucket over his head.
Then Ambers found an answer; as Armstrong bent forward and barreled in, he stood his ground and shot uppercuts one after another. Armstrong hurled punches low and the referee penalized him four rounds while Ambers knocked his mouthpiece out twice and severely split his lip. It was a war. In the fourteenth, Armstrong landed a right and Ambers reeled across the ring like a drunk chasing his hat, but he wouldn’t go down again.
Armstrong said it as the “bloodiest fight I ever had in my life.” The canvas, according to Henry McLemore in press row, “resembled a gigantic butcher’s apron” and the fight was almost stopped. “I’m not going to bleed no more,” he promised the referee, and then spat out his mouthpiece and got back to work. He ended up swallowing about a pint of his own blood along with the iodine and collodion used to congeal the cut in his mouth. Delirium set in sometime in round fifteen.
In Lou Amber’s dressing room, McLemore suspected that the fighter’s screws were punched loose. Lou sat naked, covered with welts, his eye an egg, croaking the old favorite “I Want a Girl Just Like the Girl That Married Dear Old Dad” –and talking ragtime. Swaying to and fro, he was still ducking overhands that weren’t coming anymore. “Whoop-a-doopy!” he said as McLemore made tracks for the other dressing room. Armstrong couldn’t even remember the fifteenth round. His handlers would tell him later how they had to peel him off of Ambers. A strange calm swept over him as he sat nursing a swollen left eye, five cuts over both eyes, and a mangled lip that would take fifteen stitches. Flashbulbs exploded in his face.
Hurricane Henry had reached his peak –the fistic equivalent of a category five. After storming three divisions and dethroning three champions in less than a year, the man was spent …and the boxing landscape would never be the same.
On 52nd Street the next morning, yellow cabs honk their discontent and clusters of pedestrians bustle to work outside Madison Square Garden. A gust carries a newspaper through space and time, sailing, swirling until it lands at the feet of a tall and rangy teenager in Central Park. “TRIPLE CHAMPION!” he reads, and his eyes flash with ambition. He finishes stretching and starts running down the winding bicycle path, against the wind.
***************
HENRY ARMSTRONG’S SCORECARD
-25 points-
Experience: 25
-15 points-
Ring Generalship: 13
Longevity: 13
Dominance: 15
-10 points-
Durability: 8
P/LO: 8
Intangibles: 9
TOTAL: 91
….. The original photograph of Henry Armstrong was taken by Carl Van Vechten (1880-1964). The graphic enhancements are the work of Jason McMann of Plymouth, MA.
The author is indebted to The Great Hurricane: 1938 by Cherie Burns, Peter Heller’s In This Corner, Ronald K. Fried’s Corner Men, Barney Ross by Douglas Century, Sugar Ray by Sugar Ray Robinson and Dave Anderson, the Boston Public Library’s microfilm department, and the golden memory of Joe Rein.
Springs Toledo can be contacted at scalinatella@hotmail.com.
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Frank Z:
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now do you guys see why i say pacquiao's nowhere near armstrong? or anyone else not named sugar ray robinson for that matter?
Monday Feb 8, 2010 08:34:48 PM
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SALT lover@Frank Z:
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Your comment is admirable. Not only are they makin' the ridiculous, and pathetic mistake of comparing the Filipino to Armstrong, but some here even have the mentality to belittle 'Sugar Ray' Robinson, sayin' he would lose to any fighter today, and that Floyd Mayweather Jr (40-0) would beat him. And then they use the fact that he lost to couple mediocre fighters to say he wasn't all that. Yeah, right, the man fought almost EVERY TWO WEEKS in his career, what the hell you think was gonna happen every once in a while??!! Make Floyd (or any fighter today for that matter) fight every two weeks and we'll see if he keeps himself unbeaten' like that. That's what FANATISM today does to this............. beautiful sport. Damn, it's sad man, I was gonna write "great" before sport, but unfortunately greedy dudes like Arum, steroids, incompetent so-called "Commission", ridiculous, ignjorant fans, and such killed the great part of boxin'. But what was great was your comment. Short, straight to the point, and with Truth in it. Great stuff, dude! Peace!
Monday Feb 8, 2010 09:21:08 PM
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SALT lover:
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*ridiculous, ignorant fans
Monday Feb 8, 2010 09:22:19 PM
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Frank Z @ Salt:
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thanks bro. there's also an argument to be made that pac's not even the best filipino fighter ever. flash elorde, pancho villa anyone?
Monday Feb 8, 2010 10:14:34 PM
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Isaiah:
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Holding the world title in Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight all at the same time in the original 8 weight classes, awesome. This man would have knocked out Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao and Shane Mosley all in the same month for a tiny fraction of the what any one of them get paid for one fight. What the heck happened to society? Henry Armstrong is obviously in the top 10 greatest boxers of all time, but's it's so hard to figure where to place him. There would be no ridiculous diva demands. He'd pick the most serious threat and probaly say something like, "shutup and get in the ring!" I tell you all what, they don't have em like this man any more. Top guys are WAY too spoiled now. They need to be brought back down to Earth, for real. Manny and "Money," I'm looking in both their directions. By the way, I think the greatest Filipino fighter ever would problay still be Flash Elrode in my opinion.
Monday Feb 8, 2010 11:25:07 PM
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Frank Z@ Isaiah:
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lol i wouldn't go that far, pro boxing's a brutal, dirty, and exploitative sport. if you cannot squeeze the maximum money out of every fight nowadays i say don't fight. that being said, the actually ability of the fighters today suffer as a result of that, and because of that it's almost impossible to measure up to an armstrong, but can you blame them?
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 12:07:17 AM
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joe Rein:
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Doesn't Springs Toledo get a shout-out for the quality of his writing 'n the richness of his research? Like all his other pieces in this series, it's a LABOR OF LOVE.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 12:22:51 AM
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El Maromero:
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The fighters from those days didn't have the media to help them be more popular and better promoted the bad thing is that the media also makes athletes feel like they are on top of the world but most of them don't have anything against the old school
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 04:00:23 AM
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brownsugar:
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59 fights in 3 years,.. astounding,.. that's an average of about once ever 2 and a half weeks,.. his fights WERE his training camp,.. amazing...today 3 full weight classes would equal 6 weight classes (with all the junior divisions counted in),..that would be approximately a 26 pound differential between the lowest and the highest weight,... I've researched and watched some of Henry's fights,.. and although what he did was truly remarkable and amazing,.. he couldn't ge away with fighting that wild and sloppy in modern times...but he is still one of a kind,.. a true pioneer,.. excellent writing too,.. I could almost smell the Leather,.. and taste the salty hurricane air... keep it up....
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:04:06 AM
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Smiley C:
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Yea! you are really one stupid hater who has never been around boxing. Armstrong was good, but not Pacquiao, Mosley or Mayweather. They would have ended his career. Get some glasses and cajones not to be prejudice, Rev Ike fo' sure!
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:15:18 AM
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Smiley C:
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Some of these readers are not even the best primates. The monkey, ape, the caveman and ancient man were. The monkey has been sent into space and mimic $hit, the ape can kick a$$, the caveman would club your a$$ into commonsense and kick a dinosaur a$$ and eat it and ancient man did miracles like walking on water, making wine from water, turning stones into bread, and building an ark and gathering all the animals in it. Some of these readers couldn't even find their a$$es to wipe them if they weren't clued to the bottom of their backs in a crack in them fo' sure!
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:41:22 AM
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Frank Z@ brownsugar:
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also not just 6 weight classes, 6 weight classes with all the belts unified since there was only one belt per division back then.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 08:25:39 AM
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Frank Z@ Smiley C:
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yeah they woulda ended his career, a fight with them woulda gotten him so much money he woulda quit boxing.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 08:26:46 AM
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Frank Z@ brownsugar:
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also i think that's a misconception. he appears sloppy cause a lot of his punches aren't straight punches, but also remember he was about eblow length from his opponents constantly so he had to loop his shots to find the openings, he also turned his body very well considering he didn't need much room to operate. excellent at rolling with shots and fighting back with counters in the same motion, pulling on his opponents elbows and smothering punches while still getting off his own. i think his style would be even more effective today cause who today can really figth on the inside?
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 08:29:24 AM
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The Flea:
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Another fantastic article from StoneHands.
I'm thinking Robinson at #2 and Greb at #1
Was the reference to the teenager at the end SRR? Or just a way of tieing up the narrative?
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 08:34:57 AM
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ben o'connor:
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amazing article springs! true warriors
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 09:58:50 AM
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mike kennedy:
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Great read!!!
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 12:16:33 PM
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brownsugar@FrankZ:
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Yeah,.. good comments,.. I went back a took another look at Armstrong,..he met his all his opponents the same way,... he ran out and placed his head on there chests or shoulders,.. and thru body shots,.. hooks and uppercuts,.. even his opponents were limited to throwing under hooking punches,.. you rarely see any medium range boxing in Armstrongs fights because he forced every opponent to deal with him chest to chest (or more accurately Head to Chest),.. while he was punching he was leaning in pressing his weight on his opponents... and he was better at throwing the short hooks than his opponents were,.. while undoubtedly strong,.. the pace might not have been as busy as Paul Williams or AaronPryor fight,.. but he saved himself from receiving a lot of abuse because he was usually too close to his opponent to hit,.. so I'll agree that there was definitely some method to the madness...his technique forced all his opponents to fight his fight...
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 12:37:17 PM
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brownsugar:
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"he was usually too close to his opponents to get hit"
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 12:39:12 PM
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GPater:
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Another classic piece of boxing writing.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 05:14:52 PM
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Smiley C:
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Henry Armstrong was a great slugger. A pioneer of holding multi-titles at the same time. A whole lot of more fighters can do that even today. But the boxing rules disallows it. A lot of people don't know $hit. Who dat is a dumba$$? Who dat blind by prejudice fo' sure?
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 05:56:43 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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Thanks again, Springs. This line made my day: "Ambers reeled across the ring like a drunk chasing his hat..." LOL.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:02:14 PM
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Frank Z@ Smiley C:
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a whole lot more can do that today? like who?
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:04:46 PM
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TRex:
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They just don't build them like they used to. Food for thought. We always talk about and say..."What if Floyd, Oscar, RJ, Manny or any of this eras top fighters were to go back in time, how would they do? Here's the spin...take them back to live and grow up...not just for the fight. To live in those conditions, eat the foods from the era and train just like they did. NOW, how would they do? Even better...bring Robinson, Pep, Armstrong, Johnson and have them live and eat and train in our times!! With the protein shakes and the creatine powder and the b12 shots, etc. etc. NOW, How would they do? Yes, god given talent is somethng you are just born with but there has to be an arguement that envirnment plays a role as well, isn't there?
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:15:02 PM
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Smiley C:
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I agree with you TRex, but the creatine powder is banned as a PED. Everything depends on where we are, not where we have been. Bring those fighters to this era, and they will be some bada$$es whooping a$$es. But fighters of this era would wipe out the ones of years gone by todays rules and like you said proper foods and drinks fo' sure!
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:41:04 PM
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Smiley C:
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Even a 2009 Juan Manuel Marquez would easily beat a 1938 bad balance, head-butting, wild-swing Armstrong by today's rule. Marquez would knocked out Armstrong like he knocked out Juan Diaz. There are too many present-day fighters, who can beat Armstrong, to name in those three weight divisions that he held titles at the same time fo' sure!
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 07:48:43 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Since it is near impossible to speak of things we have not seen, I'll speak only to those I have. I have not seen Henry Armstrong fight live in his time. Nor unfortunately will I. Nor however will I doubt his greatness. But I have seen with my own eyes the words of Springs Toledo. And they are indeed truly Great. In fact, some of the greatest.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 10:18:04 PM
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Frank Z :
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right, young sugar ray robinson coudn't knock him out and he was only stopped twice in 180 fights, but JMM could knock him out.
Tuesday Feb 9, 2010 11:29:59 PM
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Isaiah:
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Funny stuff. Some of the BS I read is some funny stuff. Armstrong would beat Xylocaine man down with one hand like a red headed step child. LOL!
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 12:26:14 AM
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#1 PacFan "Pacquiao by TKO in 8":
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First of all to all the TSS readers admiring the legends of the past they have never witnessed in person. You can't belittle our modern great boxers just because they dominated their era. We don't really know for sure how great those guys really were because they often lost to weaker opposition. For SRR I can't say the same because he did dominate every opponent he faced. But I can't understand how Jimmy Wilde is considered better in the rankings when Pancho Villa defeated him by KHTFO. It's even said that there was a conspiracy about they putting Villa away because he would become the next big thing in the Flyweight division. Most of you so-called experts don't realize that most of them guys fought each other frequently in rematches even if it weren't neccessary. Why fight the same guy when you just knocked him out in the last fight? That explains the abundant of fights they fought in their careers. @Frank Z, I have some collections on Flash Elorde and I think he gets beat by Manny 4 out of 5 times. Flash would give him fits by his boxing ability but he doesn't have the punch resistence to fend Pacquiao off. Flash's inability to hurt his opponents resulted in his notable losses. He outboxed Saddler in a 10 rounder but later lost by stoppage in 14 scheduled 15 in the rematch. Plus I think Flash had stamina problems as he would turn it on and off in between rounds. Same situation when he fought Ortiz where the 1st and 2nd meeting ending in the same way in the 14th round. He just couldn't put away his opponents.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 12:49:32 AM
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#1 PacFan "Pacquiao by TKO in 8":
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It's even said that Ceferino "Bolo Punch" Garcia was robbed in the first meeting with Henry Armstrong. I took a closer look at it on YOUTUBE and believe that he did win the first half and the later rounds to win a close decision. Pancho Villa would have been a great fighter as his career was cut short. He had vicious power being a small fighter that he was.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 01:05:52 AM
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Sound like a green-eyed monster:
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Dangit, Rev! Will you ever stop! Now you are picking on a red-headed step-child. Quit! That step-child had no choice of his hair color. Blame it on the Lord, and the fact that he is a step-child, blame it on a dump-a$$ parent with social issues. Are you implying that a red-headed step child is suppose to be beat like a Xylocaine man? Doggit! Life is so hard when you stereotype and use loaded terms of intolerance and hatred. Cannot we have some luv? A read-headed Lou Ambers who was a step-child kicked Armstrong a$$ in a rematch. He made Armstrong title beltless. Three cheers for thee the red-headed step children of the world. God Luv them too fo' sure!
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 01:24:16 AM
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Frank Z@ #1Pacfan:
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i dunno though, flash lost to saddler via stoppage the 2nd time they met cause of a cut not cuase saddler put his lights out. losing to carlos ortiz that late i don't think puts him below manny cause of ortiz's credentials. his stamina problems probably came from being a big smoker his whole life. his other stoppage was early in his career when he had already fought 9 times the previous 4 months.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 08:34:33 AM
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SALT lover:
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The obvious reason why they fought many rematches is because the boxing system back then was very simple: One Champion in EIGHT Weight Divisions. To day there are five World Champions in SEVENTEEN Weightclasses. It's Logic that options today are way more abundant than back then. Back then if the Champion defended his title against the challenger, and the challenger was better than the rest of the fools waitin' in line, what you think was gonna happen? Of course they were gonna fight many times over. But today there's so many options that those kinds rematches are scarce, except if one wins the other loses, or draws. They didn't fought each other cuz they wanted to. And there were less Divisions that today, thus the weight range was very large, for example the next Division after Lightweight was Welterweight, 12lbs apart. It's not like any dude back then would've been like: "I couldn't beat the Lightweight Champion in two tries. Damn, I'm better go to Welterweight then". Today there are so many "Jr this weight", or "Super that weight" that many options for many different fights are now available; not to mention five World Titles, and the other Titles too. If today the system was like back then, Cotto would have had to fight Pacquiao again, and if Pacquiao beats him again, and still remained the Welterweight Champion, he would have to fight Pacquiao a 3rd, 4rd, even 5th time to get his hands of that one Title, no matter who it was. And that's cuz the next Division was Middleweight.............imagine Cotto at 160lbs XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, right. And I never met Floyd in person neither. Nor De la Hoya, nor Mosley, nor Bradley, nor Valero. I've seen them just like Robinson, Marciano, Jimmy Wilde, and the others: on screen. So what? There's no difference in that aspect.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 09:50:50 AM
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deidre hamaguchi:
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I enjoyed reading this very much! Congrats, Mr. Toledo, on one of the most well-written articles on boxing to appear online. Your prose is as eloquent as the readers' "debate" which follows is irrelevant.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 02:02:31 PM
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Yuvie:
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My personal favourite fighter of all-time. I said it before and I'll say it again, today's modern day fighters cannot be compared with guys like Armstrong. None of these bloated egos of nowadays could hang. I agree with salt lover's last comment.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 03:20:32 PM
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Frank Z @ Salts:
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people just want to be able to witness history. seeing someone like pac run through bigger guys it's easy to want to say he's an all time great. the fact is though the competition is just not what it used to be. competition breeds greatness, simple as that. great fighters can still come but definitely not like it used to. this is not anyone being a gripe it's the simple truth. more competition in the old days= better fighters. more nba competition nowadays= better players than in the 80s, 70s, and 60s.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 04:23:19 PM
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Frank Z@ #1Pacfan:
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it's not belittling of modern boxers to point out how they don't measure up to predecessors, it's simply looking at it fairly. they simply don't fight often enough and enough tough consistent opposition to warrant even standing with boxers from when the landscape was bigger and competition fiercer. you can't discount newspaper accounts of boxers from the early half of the 20th century, or books that are well researched and contain a lot of interviews of those contemporaries. we can't say the old boxers were weak cause the film quality was poor, or cause they had more losses against "weaker" opposition. the fact is if you fight 10-15 fights a year like a lot of those guys did , you're gonna slip, plus they didn't have the advent of 2 month training camps to specifically prepare for one opponent. being conditioned was their baseline, not their trump card. i mentioned flash elorde imagine if someone got knocked out in the first round in just their 10th fight today, their career would be derailed more than likely. now there's just more bs that holds fighters back with the sanctioning bodies, and fighters with higher standing have more reason to avoid danger in competition than predecessors cause they can always fight for a different belt. the sports belts were a much bigger prize back then meaning people are more willing to push themselves in skill and will to get to it. people were given more opportunity back then and as a result more was demanded of champions and contenders. think about it, what do modern boxers today really do that old time boxers didn't? it is said they have sports science and nutrition, but weight lifting outside of traditional boxing exercises have not been proven to improve punching power. roy jones worked with someone to get muscle mass and fight ruiz, but how good is ruiz? also, roy won by not letting ruiz touch him, he would have been much quicker and probably performed better had he just went in at a natural 180 or so. an ex nfl player who fights ufc said that big muscles often tax you because they require more oxygen. a lot of those fights from SRR's days were 10 rounders sure, but they also mixed in 12 and 15 rounders. can you really say that 8 ten round fights in one year is easier than 4 twelve round fights? now you say a lot of them were probably weak opposition, well that "weak opposition" would have an alphabet belt now so it would automatically be programmed in people's minds that they were good when in fact they're not. both floyd and pacquiao have a bullsh*t belt in their collection, floyd against gatti (rip), and manny against david diaz. the only thing i can agree on that modern boxers have over old time boxers is superior nutrition, but even that gets undone cause a lot of boxers now have to drain themselves to make weight. that amazing organic high vitamin high protein complex carb meal does you no good if you can't eat it 5 days before the fight. did henry armstrong get a gift against garcia the first time? maybe. then again, did manny pacquiao get a gift against JMM the 2nd time? maybe.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 04:54:26 PM
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Oh My God!:
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Did Cain get a gift against Abel? Maybe. Did Moses get a gift against Aaron? Maybe. Did Jesus get a gift against James! Maybe. Did Doubt Thomas get a gift against Judas? Maybe. Times are different for a reason. Belittling the time that you live in is stupid. Nostalgia is like Samson and longing for longgone $hit is like Delilah. That b**** will get the secret of your strength, cut your $hit off and get your blind-a$$ eyeballs burnt out. Then your blind, mad a$$ will pull down the pillars of an arena and kill all the nostalgic nutcases on nonsense fo' sure!
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 09:04:12 PM
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Frank Z:
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yeah why don't you come back with something real.
Wednesday Feb 10, 2010 11:21:18 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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In the real world cash talks and BS walks. That is true in every walk of life. Not just boxing. Prize fighters fought for money and fame; the latter adding to the former. They still do. The only difference is the money today is so much greater the incentive to fight often is that much less. It's no different in business and banking. You make and save enough in your prime, you work less time. Early retirement was unheard of in the past for all but the extremely wealthy. Compensation and benefits were a fraction of what they have become. You worked until you couldn't and if you were lucky you left with a thank you and gold watch after giving a lifetime of service Today, you can sign a bonus, get injured, collect insurance, never play again and be excruciatingly wealthy. You can work at a hedge fund and make unconscionable amounts before turning thirty. Musicians and Artists don't die in the garret like Van Gogh. Many of them have garrets still; one in each of their multiple homes. So yes, the Armstrong's and his peers were forces incomparable to today's fighters. but not because they were necessarily better but because they fought at a time when you had to fight all the time. Give me Michael Jordan over Bob Cousy anytime. And yes, Roberto Duran would/could still have shown Hurricane Henry a thing or two about a thing or two. That would be a show. But give them both the same immense prize money and you can be certain of one thing: sooner than later both would Go. Much sooner
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 12:37:59 AM
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Cash talks and BS walks:
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Fe'Roz did it, Frank Z. I know that that was real enough fo' sure!
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 07:21:45 AM
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Frank Z:
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Fe'Roz actually helped my point. MJ played in a much more competitive era than Bob Cousy and was more dominant in that era. boxing and basketball have taken opposite paths. would duran beat armstrong? it's definitely possible, duran one of the hardest hitting lightweights ever slick as hell and trained by some smart cornermen. the richest guys in boxing are richer than ever, most pros still have to hold down full time jobs outside the ropes, but those guys are being shafted more because they often lack a connection to a major promoter who has a connection to a TV deal. shafting has always gone on especially since the mafia got in on the game in the 50s, but it's never been as utterly clustered as it is now. mafia folks fixed fights, they didn't fix entire ranking systems.
Thursday Feb 11, 2010 09:01:34 AM
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Moz:
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Great narration.
This whole series should be a requirement for every boxing fan who wants to know more about the sports.
Monday Feb 15, 2010 12:49:08 AM
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Burt Bienstock:
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Frank Z, In reply to your comment that "Ray Robinson,could'nt ko Armstrong", I must differ...I was at ringside the night of Aug.27,1943 ,MSG...I and many of the fans felt that Robinson,"CARRIED", the past peak Armstrong...Robinson toyed with Armstrong , and did not unleash his heavy arsenal at all at Armstrong...Armstrong was Ray's boyhood idol, after all...I still remember that bout vividly,after all these years....
Wednesday Mar 3, 2010 11:43:10 AM
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You Have To Take The Test To Be Called The Best
"People can say whatever they like about Floyd Mayweather Jr....and they will....but they can never say the man challenges himself to be the best." ---TSS All-Star reader El Feroz weighs in on who he thinks is at blame for the Manny-Money negotiation flameout
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